Now THIS is what I want to know. The whole point of a level cap increase (in any sane mmo) is to reset power creep. I thought that's what Cryptic was doing when they bumped us up to 60, and that the upgrade system would be a way to "catch up" any favorite items we had to the new stuff. instead, we get more Mk XII stuff and, at this point, I want to know why I should even give a rat's TRIBBLE about [new rep rewards of the moment] when they only come in at Mk XII. Last I checked, my Mk XIV gear has bigger numbers on it, even if it's not the newest thing.
The new rep rewards should've come in at Mk XIII, and then later, Mk XIV. I should be enticed to get the new stuff because of bigger numbers. Shouldn't I?
They also had an interesting option to take with the various lobi ground/space gear. They could've made them account-wide unlocks, as sort of "heirloom item" system. If I could level new characters with cool toys like that, I'd probably consider buying them. Right now, I look at them and turn up my nose because they're irreleveant junk.
I used to like Absolut Kurant...Citron was pretty good too...had a girlfriend try to get me into Pears. With what Trendy said though, is there an Absolut Fava?
Now THIS is what I want to know. The whole point of a level cap increase (in any sane mmo) is to reset power creep. I thought that's what Cryptic was doing when they bumped us up to 60, and that the upgrade system would be a way to "catch up" any favorite items we had to the new stuff. instead, we get more Mk XII stuff and, at this point, I want to know why I should even give a rat's TRIBBLE about [new rep rewards of the moment] when they only come in at Mk XII. Last I checked, my Mk XIV gear has bigger numbers on it, even if it's not the newest thing.
The new rep rewards should've come in at Mk XIII, and then later, Mk XIV. I should be enticed to get the new stuff because of bigger numbers. Shouldn't I?
They also had an interesting option to take with the various lobi ground/space gear. They could've made them account-wide unlocks, as sort of "heirloom item" system. If I could level new characters with cool toys like that, I'd probably consider buying them. Right now, I look at them and turn up my nose because they're irreleveant junk.
The newer Rep stuff doesn't require one being 60 though. It's still all based on the horizontal 50 that existed previously.
T6 ships still calculate heals at T5 level.
The 50-60 increase...er...wasn't the typical level cap increase one might see in games. There was no resetting of anything...just adding even more on to it.
I mean, how many queues are Elite only and thus require one to be 60?
The level cap increase was just a means to sell more ships, a way to introduce more ways that people might stick around and potentially pay to get various upgrades, whether just to get them or to get them in the hopes of increasing the rate at which they gained Spec points, etc, etc, etc.
It was like getting a radio for the treadmill...that treadmill to nowhere that folks are so intent upon running faster and faster.
Doffing however is a way to make alts more viable as they may all be done simultaneously. Obviously, for whatever reason, alts are no longer desired? Strange.
It occurred to me recently that the game wants us to level up multiple sets of equipment not just one. The fact that most people are not doing that must be a disappointment. But aren't we meant to do this with every character as well?
I would expect a doffing revamp would look pretty much like this 12 hour nerf. I would guess we'd be looking at a pretty flat 10 exp/hour/mission, along with a massive nerf to crits and dilithium.
Expecting everyone to slowgrind each character without doffing some 60 to 100 spec points is like expecting people to buy the current exp boosters. It's like expecting to win the lottery.
Again I would advise - 'Pray I don't alter it further' - have a moment of silence for the 12 hour missions - shed a lone tear - then pray again.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Doffing however is a way to make alts more viable as they may all be done simultaneously. Obviously, for whatever reason, alts are no longer desired? Strange.
It occurred to me recently that the game wants us to level up multiple sets of equipment not just one. The fact that most people are not doing that must be a disappointment. But aren't we meant to do this with every character as well?
I would expect a doffing revamp would look pretty much like this 12 hour nerf. I would guess we'd be looking at a pretty flat 10 exp/hour/mission, along with a massive nerf to crits and dilithium.
Expecting everyone to slowgrind each character without doffing some 60 to 100 spec points is like expecting people to buy the current exp boosters. It's like expecting to win the lottery.
Again I would advise - 'Pray I don't alter it further' - have a moment of silence for the 12 hour missions - shed a lone tear - then pray again.
With what Geko mentioned in PO219 (probably how this got noticed and thus directed to be fixed)...well, it's going to be more and more that mix of Magic the Gathering and Farmville. So I'd expect there's going to be all sorts of "nerfs", changes, and increased monetization of it.
Oh I know, and for those purposes, it's fine. I just don't see how fixing a bug that minor is worth getting upset over.
ah, I see. well first there's some discussion on whether or not it's a bug. outlier ya, bug, probably not. but that's just language.
personally, for me? what I'd be terribly upset about is the fact that without these uncommon 1k xp doff missions my offline alt-leveling would grind to a near halt. It's not fast now, but at least it moves with the occasional crit. it would completely blow away my gameplay, as it is now it's (my gameplay) has evolved away from a single main to a little cadre of characters.
as for other people, I can't specifically say, but I do know that there are a _lot_ of hurt feelings and pent up anger over other xp nerfs. and this is being lumped in with those. it's getting extra anger-by-proxy or something.
The newer Rep stuff doesn't require one being 60 though. It's still all based on the horizontal 50 that existed previously.
Yeah I know. I'm just confused from the perspective of both a player and a person who understands game design very well. I don't like buying into conspiracy theories such as "it was just a way to sell more ships etc" but the more I think about it, the more I think that either that really is the case, or that the team really did want to reset power creep, but weren't quite aware of how to go about doing so properly.
The 50-60 increase...er...wasn't the typical level cap increase one might see in games. There was no resetting of anything...just adding even more on to it.
I mean, how many queues are Elite only and thus require one to be 60?
I know, but in terms of adding more, I'm not sure what exactly it added except for more missions (many of which are just bundled exploration TRIBBLE) and more time spent spent leveling overall.
When 50 was the cap and Mk XII was the "endgame," I was always enticed to get the latest and greatest set to match the content. But now that I'm 60, that incentive is gone because, as I mentioned before, what reason do I have to replace a Mk XIV torpedo with a Mk XII one? Sure, I could upgrade that new torpedo to Mk XIV, but even if I upgrade the Mk XII, it's still more of a break-even than an upgrade. With as expensive as upgrades can get, I have to ask myself: why bother?
I don't know if this new iconian rep gear is going to be any good outside of its new-and-shiny factor, but I'm probably not going to find out. It's just not worth it.
With what Geko mentioned in PO219 (probably how this got noticed and thus directed to be fixed)...well, it's going to be more and more that mix of Magic the Gathering and Farmville. So I'd expect there's going to be all sorts of "nerfs", changes, and increased monetization of it.
First of all, is it me, or does it seem saner in here than it does over this same discussion over at the Reddit forums?
Second of all, I'm shocked they haven't done any sort of monetization of this sort at all at this point. I mean, seriously, all of this is just screaming "XP BOOSTS FOR SALE~!" and... we just got the pathetic ones that give you extra 10k.
To demonstrate that, you'd need assignments that match where all the criteria outside of time are at play.
The example you used gives an item upon completion - it's a poor example
The missions given are all uncommon missions (of the same rarity), as well as ones that don't give items, buffs, doffs, boffs, or boosted dil output. So ones where XP is the primary reward, basically.
If you pick missions that are primarily based around giving other rewards, you're comparing apples to oranges.
The example you used gives an item upon completion - it's a poor example
The missions given are all uncommon missions (of the same rarity), as well as ones that don't give items, buffs, doffs, boffs, or boosted dil output. So ones where XP is the primary reward, basically.
If you pick missions that are primarily based around giving other rewards, you're comparing apples to oranges.
Everything but the time would have to be the same...
An assignment's degree of reward is based on several factors:
Rarer assignments have better rewards
Longer assignments have higher absolute rewards, but lower per capita/per second rewards (i.e., they are less efficient)
Assignments that have a higher chance of injury or death will have higher rewards
Assignments that have higher inputs (commodities, anomalies, energy units, etc.) will have higher rewards
Assignments that have no chance of disaster or failure will have lower rewards
Assignments that have a lower chance of success will have higher rewards; most assignments start at around 75% chance of success, but some are closer to 50%, meaning you need to put better duty officers into them for a more reliable chance of success
Assignments with more specific requirements will have higher rewards; for example, a requirement of "Projectile Weapons Specialist" will generally reward more than one that will take any Tactical officer
Assignments with tougher trait modifiers will tend to have higher rewards
Three different 6 hour assignments. Two are Rare and one is Uncommon.
Just looking at what's listed there, there's no visible difference as why the Create Map rewards 441 compared to the Describe Map rewarding 294. Everything looks the same there.
Then what's up with the one in the middle? It's Uncommon and requires one less DOFF...but rewards 360...more than the Rare requiring 4 DOFFs that does 294.
There are other factors involved...not displayed just by looking there.
So let's go down the list. Remember, the theory you're proposing is that Blackmail Local Governer is getting a 10x modifier it shouldn't be.
Thus, for the reward/hour to be equal, the other factors must be pushing it down. Let's see if the other factors are pushing Blackmail over Provide Intelligence, based on the criteria provided
Rarer assignments have better rewards:
Assignments are equal rarity. Let's move on
Longer assignments have higher absolute rewards, but lower per capita/per second rewards (i.e., they are less efficient):
This is the section in question. Let's assess whether it's true at the very end.
Assignments that have a higher chance of injury or death will have higher rewards
Blackmail has a higher chance of injury or death, so should have a reward boost
Assignments that have higher inputs (commodities, anomalies, energy units, etc.) will have higher rewards
Blackmail has a higher input, so should have a reward boost.
Assignments that have no chance of disaster or failure will have lower rewards
Both of these have a chance of disaster and failure, so let's move on.
Assignments that have a lower chance of success will have higher rewards; most assignments start at around 75% chance of success, but some are closer to 50%, meaning you need to put better duty officers into them for a more reliable chance of success
Blackmail has a lower chance of success than Provide intelligence. So it should get a higher reward boost.
Assignments with more specific requirements will have higher rewards; for example, a requirement of "Projectile Weapons Specialist" will generally reward more than one that will take any Tactical officer
Blackmail requires specific doffs, instead of literally any officer. Higher reward there too
Assignments with tougher trait modifiers will tend to have higher rewards
Neither has any trait modifiers, so let's move on.
Final assessment: Under the criteria provided, in every category Blackmail should be getting equal or higher rewards than Provide Intelligence.
However, on a per-time-unit basis, it's far lower than Provide Intelligence. By about 30%, in fact.
Thus, we can say conclusively that this mission isn't granting too many rewards due to a bad time multiplier.
If blackmail is changed to only give a 'fixed' 10% of the rewards, it would be granting xp at a rate SEVEN PERCENT as fast as Provide Intelligence. For a mission that is - in every category - as hard or harder.
One thing I'd to your write-up is that the more specific the doff requirements are the more the mission should reward. I wouldn't change rewards based on numbers of doffs needed as higher numbers means a larger quality reward bonus. But there are several that have requirements like: diplomat, security officer, entertainer, chef, bartender. And that's just to be able to START the mission, never mind getting a crit... Stuff like that should definitely pay better than assignments that don't care what you throw at them. Such as the EVA suit training one.... ANY doffs work. Resolve adds crit, telepathic is disaster trait.... aside from that it makes almost no difference what you use. And of course this applies to things that require certain traits. Especially telekinesis and shroud.
Actually that's a good idea. I agree that merely 'numbers' isn't enough to justify more rewards, but specific stuff would be a good reason to do so. I would say maybe a 1% increase if you need something semi-specific, or 2% if you need something very specific. Might not sound like much, but it can add up if factored in with the other stuff I proposed.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
you know, all this is kind of a moot point at the moment
post-patch, with the new map, only about 1/8th to 1/10th of the wonderful 1k awesome missions are accessible
they used to show up in several areas, current map, military, operations, marauding, etc
now, only once in a while do they show up in marauding
outside of the gorn ones and delta quadrant,
the damage is already done, this discussion is about the last coffin nail
kind of sad
EDIT: I'm hitting rank 4 in the various doffing skills on my chars, I used to buy the purple doffs from the personnel officer, I'm not doing that anymore, no point really with crappy rewards. if I crit on a doff mission that normally returns 50 xp, so what
The cardassian lockbox contains a prize called Gamma Quadrant Elite Duty Officer Pack.
One of the 7 doffs you can get from it is called Dae Marron, and is one of the only doffs in the game with 3 crit traits for Suppress Gorn Uprising.
The 12 hour gorn uprising missions were meant to reward a lot of xp, and this was a selling point to doffers for the cardassian lockbox and the doff pack you could win from it.
It was never marketed as such and was a "build secret", that savy doffers figured out. It might even not be intentional on the designers part. Not a valid arguement against this nerf.
****
I'm not in game, or willing to go through my notes right now.
Are any of the above arguements showing payouts taking into account the differance in payouts for a crit? Some missions offer items if crit (including contraband) when they don't indicate a item reward. Some xp on a crit is insane on low paying missions, others offer titles on crits.
If I wasn't so busy maintaining a steady spc gain on my main and forcing myself through the Card missions on my delta, I'd spend some time on tribble testing this but, meh, not sure they listen anyways....
NOTE- The haggle missions need to come back. eventually I will run low of these items, and their uses generate alot of xp in doffing.
I really thought cryptic would be done nerfing XP by now. I mean Delta Rising is 7 month released and they still havent got it right. How embarrassing but thats cryptical.
Same reason why I wont post on twitter/facebook or whatsoever (even though the idea itself is good)!
Because of a few decisions by Geko STO is turning more and more into an embarrassing game for me to play, one I really dont want to be associated with (or recommend it to my friends - lol).
If their next step really is to nerf doffing they may do so and give me another reason to log less. So far I adjusted my daytime that even when Im busy elsewhere I at least try to log 20 mins for doffing. Take that away? Sure, Im barley motivated to play as it is so I see it as favour.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
They can nerf it if they feel the need to fiddle some more...
But no, it will not result in me playing Delta Rising patrols, it will not result in me doing more PvE queues, it will not result in me buying more zen, or buying more dilithium off the exchange.
So they can nerf, and I'll continue to doff as I already do, with no benefit to Cryptic in their latest spreadsheet tinker.
The one thing people have the biggest problem with since the launch of Delta Rising are the XP rewards.
Since 7 months you are unable to come up with a solution that would work for both sides but no, because people had enough they were doffing instead of playing and now you have to fix doffing because you think people would start to play the queues again.
YOU ARE WRONG!
PS: Delta Recruits are successful because we are getting good account wide stuff out of it, and not because the game is awesome after Level 50.
Delusions of grandeur so funny but still so serious. You would make a good cardassian pretending we are your bajoran subjects. Although you can think of our wallets and our *time* as the prophets of the worm hole. We had to send your profits to another time where Cryptic and PWE did not exist so then hold out our giant bags to collect all our time and currencies to be refunded.
What was that? I can't hear you.... Oh wait thats because we no longer view you as a viable product.
If you have an underlying concern that you feel has been waylaid in regards to the leveling curve and XP, then I need to discuss that. I cannot assume nor exact the actions of my predecessors, but if there's an underlying concern that is longstanding with this then I mean to address it with people, not shy from it.
Let's work on this together, eh?
Well this ball is in your court isn't it ?
you moniter the forums...you see the feedback
Start a sticky thread like...............
leveling of spec points
Then in you page of the thread ask the questions needing feedback
As the thread progresses add to your page with good responses and good feedback
When you get all the ideas from the players take them to ..whomever and then give us some feedback from that meeting
basically tap into the player resources here make us feel were helping pro active to our complaints and concearns ...Not reactive
A good point here ... Where is exploration at....What are the plans for it.....how can we help with Idea's
Right now we know nothing at all so our collective response will be Reactive and most likely Negative...We don't evewn have any idea which way you will be going with it
Don't let a Fire start and you don't have to put it out
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Delusions of grandeur so funny but still so serious. You would make a good cardassian pretending we are your bajoran subjects. Although you can think of our wallets and our *time* as the prophets of the worm hole. We had to send your profits to another time where Cryptic and PWE did not exist so then hold out our giant bags to collect all our time and currencies to be refunded.
What was that? I can't hear you.... Oh wait thats because we no longer view you as a viable product.
Y'know, it's players like you who are the reason Devs are like this. "Oh, something's broken and needs to be fixed? Oh, I know - I'll insult them with my knowledge of Star Trek and then tell them how superior I am over them because I throw my money elsewhere. OHOHOHOHOHOHO!"
Y'know, it's players like you who are the reason Devs are like this. "Oh, something's broken and needs to be fixed? Oh, I know - I'll insult them with my knowledge of Star Trek and then tell them how superior I am over them because I throw my money elsewhere. OHOHOHOHOHOHO!"
Or on the flip side of your coin from many players point of view
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
From many players point of View this is what the Devs have did to us
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I spent my last cash on this game i knew better but with dil prices as they are grinding for the bortasqu pack isnt really practicle.
And now yet another XP nerf i think its time to start looking for a new game the constant nerfs and uber grinds has officially gotten out of control.
Idk about you people but imo STO has jumped the Shark and it jumped that when DR released anyways im gonna start searching for a new game one thats actually .....FUN.
Y'know, it's players like you who are the reason Devs are like this. "Oh, something's broken and needs to be fixed? Oh, I know - I'll insult them with my knowledge of Star Trek and then tell them how superior I am over them because I throw my money elsewhere. OHOHOHOHOHOHO!"
Or maybe its because the Devs dont care about the players as people in the first place, eh?
Curious, as I'm on the other side of the fence here..
What other MMOs have you able to log in for a total of 10 minutes, queue up something that in a day or two, nets you 2 spec points (basically an entire level if you think of it like that) rinse and repeat.
The spec system at this point is finite, as they are intending to add more, some of you here have openly stated that you plus all of your alts have maxed out all of the spec trees for your characters. You lament that any new players are not going to have such a breeze doing it as you did, I'll give you that.
They could always reward a spec point or 2 after finishing STFs on Advanced or Elite, who knows, either way, that system was never necessarily meant for the casual player to achieve in a month, lets say, but for those who put in the work pound for pound blasting baddies along the way and doing "dungeons".
The way it is or has been, is you're being rewarded(largely) for logging in and out and doing something else away from the game. This is the way it appears to me, and plenty of you will disagree I'm sure.. We are mostly all victims of near instant gratification and reward with little effort, gameplay or otherwise.
Oh and before the response of "grinding is not fun", I totally agree with you, droning away at a task for 2-3 hrs lets say each day isnt fun, though it does depend on what that task is. Plenty of you have done this "grinding" wittingly or not - in games like say WoW, running the same damned dungeon for pieces of super gear or reward so you could sit in the main city and pose for the peasants..
Anyway, this is turning into a needless rant and I apologize. Trendy, you asked for feedback, you are getting it, as far as I am concerned the underlying problem is cutting back xp rewards for doing things in the game. If you guys intend to increase the rewards for participating in events, such as global missions or something everyone can participate in as opposed to singular 1 click projects or tasks, then I think that would be a good idea.
It would be a good idea to let your intentions be known in announcements that while you intend to adjust these rates that its going to be a give and take situation. You take from that and increase this. You want the players to feel like they are accomplishing something worth the effort.
Comments
The new rep rewards should've come in at Mk XIII, and then later, Mk XIV. I should be enticed to get the new stuff because of bigger numbers. Shouldn't I?
They also had an interesting option to take with the various lobi ground/space gear. They could've made them account-wide unlocks, as sort of "heirloom item" system. If I could level new characters with cool toys like that, I'd probably consider buying them. Right now, I look at them and turn up my nose because they're irreleveant junk.
I used to like Absolut Kurant...Citron was pretty good too...had a girlfriend try to get me into Pears. With what Trendy said though, is there an Absolut Fava?
The newer Rep stuff doesn't require one being 60 though. It's still all based on the horizontal 50 that existed previously.
T6 ships still calculate heals at T5 level.
The 50-60 increase...er...wasn't the typical level cap increase one might see in games. There was no resetting of anything...just adding even more on to it.
I mean, how many queues are Elite only and thus require one to be 60?
The level cap increase was just a means to sell more ships, a way to introduce more ways that people might stick around and potentially pay to get various upgrades, whether just to get them or to get them in the hopes of increasing the rate at which they gained Spec points, etc, etc, etc.
It was like getting a radio for the treadmill...that treadmill to nowhere that folks are so intent upon running faster and faster.
It occurred to me recently that the game wants us to level up multiple sets of equipment not just one. The fact that most people are not doing that must be a disappointment. But aren't we meant to do this with every character as well?
I would expect a doffing revamp would look pretty much like this 12 hour nerf. I would guess we'd be looking at a pretty flat 10 exp/hour/mission, along with a massive nerf to crits and dilithium.
Expecting everyone to slowgrind each character without doffing some 60 to 100 spec points is like expecting people to buy the current exp boosters. It's like expecting to win the lottery.
Again I would advise - 'Pray I don't alter it further' - have a moment of silence for the 12 hour missions - shed a lone tear - then pray again.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
With what Geko mentioned in PO219 (probably how this got noticed and thus directed to be fixed)...well, it's going to be more and more that mix of Magic the Gathering and Farmville. So I'd expect there's going to be all sorts of "nerfs", changes, and increased monetization of it.
ah, I see. well first there's some discussion on whether or not it's a bug. outlier ya, bug, probably not. but that's just language.
personally, for me? what I'd be terribly upset about is the fact that without these uncommon 1k xp doff missions my offline alt-leveling would grind to a near halt. It's not fast now, but at least it moves with the occasional crit. it would completely blow away my gameplay, as it is now it's (my gameplay) has evolved away from a single main to a little cadre of characters.
as for other people, I can't specifically say, but I do know that there are a _lot_ of hurt feelings and pent up anger over other xp nerfs. and this is being lumped in with those. it's getting extra anger-by-proxy or something.
I know, but in terms of adding more, I'm not sure what exactly it added except for more missions (many of which are just bundled exploration TRIBBLE) and more time spent spent leveling overall.
When 50 was the cap and Mk XII was the "endgame," I was always enticed to get the latest and greatest set to match the content. But now that I'm 60, that incentive is gone because, as I mentioned before, what reason do I have to replace a Mk XIV torpedo with a Mk XII one? Sure, I could upgrade that new torpedo to Mk XIV, but even if I upgrade the Mk XII, it's still more of a break-even than an upgrade. With as expensive as upgrades can get, I have to ask myself: why bother?
I don't know if this new iconian rep gear is going to be any good outside of its new-and-shiny factor, but I'm probably not going to find out. It's just not worth it.
First of all, is it me, or does it seem saner in here than it does over this same discussion over at the Reddit forums?
Second of all, I'm shocked they haven't done any sort of monetization of this sort at all at this point. I mean, seriously, all of this is just screaming "XP BOOSTS FOR SALE~!" and... we just got the pathetic ones that give you extra 10k.
It's not even an outlier. 12 hour missions reward less on a per-hour basis than shorter missions do.
To demonstrate that, you'd need assignments that match where all the criteria outside of time are at play.
It gets into cherry picking there...
Cause how about this one, yeah?
http://i.imgur.com/D0pzk8s.png
6 * 72 = 432
Etc, etc, etc...
Here's a 30 minute one that does 96 compared to that 2 hour one that did 72...
http://i.imgur.com/sGI5WEg.png
Here's another 96 one...but this one is 4 hours...
http://i.imgur.com/hN7arPI.png
Cause it gets into a bunch of different variables. One would need to compare like to like with the different times to make the comparison.
The example you used gives an item upon completion - it's a poor example
The missions given are all uncommon missions (of the same rarity), as well as ones that don't give items, buffs, doffs, boffs, or boosted dil output. So ones where XP is the primary reward, basically.
If you pick missions that are primarily based around giving other rewards, you're comparing apples to oranges.
Everything but the time would have to be the same...
Three different 6 hour assignments. Two are Rare and one is Uncommon.
Just looking at what's listed there, there's no visible difference as why the Create Map rewards 441 compared to the Describe Map rewarding 294. Everything looks the same there.
Then what's up with the one in the middle? It's Uncommon and requires one less DOFF...but rewards 360...more than the Rare requiring 4 DOFFs that does 294.
There are other factors involved...not displayed just by looking there.
Provide Intelligence of Rival House to Rival of House Whatever:
Requirement (any duty officer)
Rarity: Uncommon
Casualty Risk: None
Success Chance: Slightly better
Critical Success: 5%
Success: 54%
Failure: 38%
Disaster: 3%
Reward: 57 xp/ 30 min (equivalent to 1680 xp/12 hours)
Compare with
Assignment: Blackmail Local Governor
Input: 1 Contraband <- Very valuable input
Requirement: One of three Specific Doff Types (Advisor or Diplomat or Security Officer) < Far more restrictive
Casualty Risk: Medium
Success Chance: Slightly worse
Critical Success: 4%
Success: 43%
Failure: 43%
Disaster: 9%
Reward: 1154 XP / 12 Hours
So let's go down the list. Remember, the theory you're proposing is that Blackmail Local Governer is getting a 10x modifier it shouldn't be.
Thus, for the reward/hour to be equal, the other factors must be pushing it down. Let's see if the other factors are pushing Blackmail over Provide Intelligence, based on the criteria provided
Final assessment: Under the criteria provided, in every category Blackmail should be getting equal or higher rewards than Provide Intelligence.
However, on a per-time-unit basis, it's far lower than Provide Intelligence. By about 30%, in fact.
Thus, we can say conclusively that this mission isn't granting too many rewards due to a bad time multiplier.
If blackmail is changed to only give a 'fixed' 10% of the rewards, it would be granting xp at a rate SEVEN PERCENT as fast as Provide Intelligence. For a mission that is - in every category - as hard or harder.
Actually that's a good idea. I agree that merely 'numbers' isn't enough to justify more rewards, but specific stuff would be a good reason to do so. I would say maybe a 1% increase if you need something semi-specific, or 2% if you need something very specific. Might not sound like much, but it can add up if factored in with the other stuff I proposed.
Reducing rewards by a factor of ten, will, in fact, turn them into low-end outliers
Which makes sense - how often do you see a 1 hour mission that grants 10 xp?
post-patch, with the new map, only about 1/8th to 1/10th of the wonderful 1k awesome missions are accessible
they used to show up in several areas, current map, military, operations, marauding, etc
now, only once in a while do they show up in marauding
outside of the gorn ones and delta quadrant,
the damage is already done, this discussion is about the last coffin nail
kind of sad
EDIT: I'm hitting rank 4 in the various doffing skills on my chars, I used to buy the purple doffs from the personnel officer, I'm not doing that anymore, no point really with crappy rewards. if I crit on a doff mission that normally returns 50 xp, so what
It was never marketed as such and was a "build secret", that savy doffers figured out. It might even not be intentional on the designers part. Not a valid arguement against this nerf.
****
I'm not in game, or willing to go through my notes right now.
Are any of the above arguements showing payouts taking into account the differance in payouts for a crit? Some missions offer items if crit (including contraband) when they don't indicate a item reward. Some xp on a crit is insane on low paying missions, others offer titles on crits.
If I wasn't so busy maintaining a steady spc gain on my main and forcing myself through the Card missions on my delta, I'd spend some time on tribble testing this but, meh, not sure they listen anyways....
NOTE- The haggle missions need to come back. eventually I will run low of these items, and their uses generate alot of xp in doffing.
I really thought cryptic would be done nerfing XP by now. I mean Delta Rising is 7 month released and they still havent got it right. How embarrassing but thats cryptical.
Same reason why I wont post on twitter/facebook or whatsoever (even though the idea itself is good)!
Because of a few decisions by Geko STO is turning more and more into an embarrassing game for me to play, one I really dont want to be associated with (or recommend it to my friends - lol).
If their next step really is to nerf doffing they may do so and give me another reason to log less. So far I adjusted my daytime that even when Im busy elsewhere I at least try to log 20 mins for doffing. Take that away? Sure, Im barley motivated to play as it is so I see it as favour.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
But no, it will not result in me playing Delta Rising patrols, it will not result in me doing more PvE queues, it will not result in me buying more zen, or buying more dilithium off the exchange.
So they can nerf, and I'll continue to doff as I already do, with no benefit to Cryptic in their latest spreadsheet tinker.
Since 7 months you are unable to come up with a solution that would work for both sides but no, because people had enough they were doffing instead of playing and now you have to fix doffing because you think people would start to play the queues again.
YOU ARE WRONG!
PS: Delta Recruits are successful because we are getting good account wide stuff out of it, and not because the game is awesome after Level 50.
Not to nit pick, but delta rewards are about getting to 50.....:P
No problem but I actually meant the mark boxes, traits and gear.
Delusions of grandeur so funny but still so serious. You would make a good cardassian pretending we are your bajoran subjects. Although you can think of our wallets and our *time* as the prophets of the worm hole. We had to send your profits to another time where Cryptic and PWE did not exist so then hold out our giant bags to collect all our time and currencies to be refunded.
What was that? I can't hear you.... Oh wait thats because we no longer view you as a viable product.
Well this ball is in your court isn't it ?
you moniter the forums...you see the feedback
Start a sticky thread like...............
leveling of spec points
Then in you page of the thread ask the questions needing feedback
As the thread progresses add to your page with good responses and good feedback
When you get all the ideas from the players take them to ..whomever and then give us some feedback from that meeting
basically tap into the player resources here make us feel were helping pro active to our complaints and concearns ...Not reactive
A good point here ... Where is exploration at....What are the plans for it.....how can we help with Idea's
Right now we know nothing at all so our collective response will be Reactive and most likely Negative...We don't evewn have any idea which way you will be going with it
Don't let a Fire start and you don't have to put it out
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Y'know, it's players like you who are the reason Devs are like this. "Oh, something's broken and needs to be fixed? Oh, I know - I'll insult them with my knowledge of Star Trek and then tell them how superior I am over them because I throw my money elsewhere. OHOHOHOHOHOHO!"
Or on the flip side of your coin from many players point of view
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
Thank you Sir may I have another ( Smack )
From many players point of View this is what the Devs have did to us
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
And now yet another XP nerf i think its time to start looking for a new game the constant nerfs and uber grinds has officially gotten out of control.
Idk about you people but imo STO has jumped the Shark and it jumped that when DR released anyways im gonna start searching for a new game one thats actually .....FUN.
Or maybe its because the Devs dont care about the players as people in the first place, eh?
What other MMOs have you able to log in for a total of 10 minutes, queue up something that in a day or two, nets you 2 spec points (basically an entire level if you think of it like that) rinse and repeat.
The spec system at this point is finite, as they are intending to add more, some of you here have openly stated that you plus all of your alts have maxed out all of the spec trees for your characters. You lament that any new players are not going to have such a breeze doing it as you did, I'll give you that.
They could always reward a spec point or 2 after finishing STFs on Advanced or Elite, who knows, either way, that system was never necessarily meant for the casual player to achieve in a month, lets say, but for those who put in the work pound for pound blasting baddies along the way and doing "dungeons".
The way it is or has been, is you're being rewarded(largely) for logging in and out and doing something else away from the game. This is the way it appears to me, and plenty of you will disagree I'm sure.. We are mostly all victims of near instant gratification and reward with little effort, gameplay or otherwise.
Oh and before the response of "grinding is not fun", I totally agree with you, droning away at a task for 2-3 hrs lets say each day isnt fun, though it does depend on what that task is. Plenty of you have done this "grinding" wittingly or not - in games like say WoW, running the same damned dungeon for pieces of super gear or reward so you could sit in the main city and pose for the peasants..
Anyway, this is turning into a needless rant and I apologize. Trendy, you asked for feedback, you are getting it, as far as I am concerned the underlying problem is cutting back xp rewards for doing things in the game. If you guys intend to increase the rewards for participating in events, such as global missions or something everyone can participate in as opposed to singular 1 click projects or tasks, then I think that would be a good idea.
It would be a good idea to let your intentions be known in announcements that while you intend to adjust these rates that its going to be a give and take situation. You take from that and increase this. You want the players to feel like they are accomplishing something worth the effort.
That's all I have to say about that.
Thanks