You forgot to add that they've added a deluge of unnecessary assignments to clutter up the UI .
... unless you think that it's actually beneficial to have 6 missions to craft turrets of each type of weapon available ...
TBH,taking into account the random mods, and there are more useful assignments out there. Those are my last resort choice for doff missions, Hell I'll pick up the 30min medical ones before touching those, although the console crafting one has yielded some nice results as of late. But again its just luck of the draw.
And I apologise for the wall of text in my previous post.
TBH,taking into account the random mods, and there are more useful assignments out there. Those are my last resort choice for doff missions, Hell I'll pick up the 30min medical ones before touching those, although the console crafting one has yielded some nice results as of late. But again its just luck of the draw.
And I apologise for the wall of text in my previous post.
Even if it's vendor trash it's still loot. :P
Also the doff missions to make stuff can apparently get crafted mods like [Over] etc...
It is absolutely beyond contest that the missions being changed here have rewards that are way out of proportion to the rest of the missions.
part of the fun of doffing is that it's like a treasure hunt, you look around for the good missions, the "treasure"
almost all my chars are kdf and kdf/rom, my first char was kdf. when I made that first char I had no idea that 90% of the players were fed I only did it because the klingons seemed like more fun to me. and they still do.
what I'm trying to say, is that I happened into this doffing thing by accident and ... it's GREAT!
with limited time because of real world commitments I'll roll through my alts (fed included) and set research and set doff missions, with these awesome 12 hour treasure missions I can slowly move along multiple chars.
are they great? yes! are they OP? of course not. they aren't low hanging fruit, they aren't always there, it takes time to find them, and sometimes you don't find them! I have NO maxed chars, not one. even my main doesn't have capped spec points and NEVER HAS.
but, they are moved along a bit xp wise, and that's fun! I can give them neat ships and neat traits and move the little alt army along. for the fun of it. it's great fun finding these 12 hour doff missions with bonus xp, and it allows me to play the game the way I'd like to.
taking them away makes the game significantly worse for me. I'll certainly spend less
let me give you a real world example ---- there are a few traits that are really really great, or I just like them a lot. so, I visit the exchange frequently to grab them when they are a low low prices. why? because I have alts. why? because I am able to get them functional and move them along with these 12 hour doff missions.
YES REALLY, because of those great missions, I'm able to do more and spend more and have more fun
Another thread where people rage against each other instead of who they should be 'raging' against. Will it never end (shakes head).
Keeping up with my classic Science Fiction analogies to this game, here is an adaptation of the closing scene from the classic Twilight Zone episode 'The Monsters are Due on Maple Street'
Cryptic One. Understand the procedure now? Just 'normalize' a few of their leveling mechanisms, Missions Rewards, EC payouts, Dilitium rewards, Mark rewards, XP payouts, increased costs for all things and limit what the Bonus Weekend bonuses apply to, and then just sit back and watch the pattern.
Cryptic Two. And this pattern is always the same?
Cryptic One. With few variations. They pick the most dangerous enemy they can find . . .
and its themselves. And all we need do is sit back . . . and watch.
Cryptic Two. Then I take it this mechanism . . .this Doffing nerf . . . is not unique.
Cryptic One (shaking his head ). By no means. This game is full of mechanisms. And well
go from one to the other and let them destroy themselves. One to the other . . . . one to the
other . . . one to the other
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Funny that this has been this way for years and until a couple of days ago no one gave it any thought and now there are suddenly people - and its the same people every time - saying how badly this was needed and its about time. Like it effects other players in any way or even thought about it until this thread.
I also wonder if many of these people are getting warnings and/or bans for insulting and attacking the OP and his fleet. Of course the way things work around here he will likely get the warning.
I'll miss that chunk of XP from criting some of those assignments, but apparently the devs have more plans to buff the rarer doff assignments to have better rewards. However, knowing Cryptic they probably won't buff those rare assignments by much... :rolleyes:
Let me try and clear up a few misconceptions and possibly even cool some heads around here, regarding the Doffing XP adjustment. Fix. Let's call it what it is: we fixed an error in the code.
When you see a string of numbers laid out as:
10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 40, 3, 2, 1
... you don't presume it's correct. And once you've determined that the series has an inconsistency, you find yourself with what we in Design sometimes call "a bump in the floor."
As in, if you have a big flat floor with one obvious bump in it, you don't raise the entire floor to the level of the bump. You take a hammer to that thing, and you fix it.
This fix was not made with the conscious intention of decreasing anyone's enjoyment of the game, or ability to earn XP/CXP, or anything else we're currently being accused of. The fix was made because it is a fix -- a problem existed, and had to be corrected.
So, yes: Doff Assignments with durations between 12 and 15.9 hours were awarding roughly 10x the amount of numerics they were designed to reward. I'm sorry if you assumed that was an intended part of the system, but it was, in fact, an egregious misplacement of a decimal place, and needed to be corrected.
We will take another look at Doff Assignment XP gain as a whole in the near future, and see if it's reasonable to consider any sort of systemic increases. But we aren't going to add back in a bug, or revert a fix to such an obvious error.
So, yes: Doff Assignments with durations between 12 and 15.9 hours were awarding roughly 10x the amount of numerics they were designed to reward. I'm sorry if you assumed that was an intended part of the system, but it was, in fact, an egregious misplacement of a decimal place, and needed to be corrected.
Hmm yeah sorry we kind of did after 3 years ...
This fix was not made with the conscious intention of decreasing anyone's enjoyment of the game, or ability to earn XP/CXP, or anything else we're currently being accused of. The fix was made because it is a fix -- a problem existed, and had to be corrected.
No need to accuse anyone ... afaik it's just common sense ...
We will take another look at Doff Assignment XP gain as a whole in the near future, and see if it's reasonable to consider any sort of systemic increases. But we aren't going to add back in a bug, or revert a fix to such an obvious error.
*grasping at straws in desperation, while drowning* ... but missing "an obvious error" for 3 YEARS doesn't really fill me with confidence ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I don't think it's necessary... Though Doffing can reward some pretty good XP, it's not enough to be considered significant compared to other options, and really in no need of 'nerfing', lest Cryptic remove any reason to continue Doffing once hitting Tier 4 Commendations...
Yeah, I was just coming back to correct myself on that... I was confusing Supress Gorn Uprising with Suppress Civil Unrest assignment durations...
I was also forgetting there are alot of smaller, 1 and 2 Doff, 12hour duration assignments KDF side, which have a base XP reward of around 1-1.2k which will also be affected...
So, the effect will be much greater than I originally thought... Time will tell...
Not only did I come back and correct myself, as I had merely confused Supress Gorn Uprising durations with Suppress Civil Unrest, but I had stated from the beginning that I did not feel this nerf was necessary!
You wanna take a swipe at someone for something they did, or did not say, make sure you're lining them up for the right reason and not simply out of your own prejudices...
I'm not an apologist, white knight or what have you... I'm a pragmatist... Normally, I can see the reason behind why changes and nerfs are being made (the Particle Manipluator trait for example) and I will share my opinions accordingly...
When I disagree with something, I will disagree with it... It just so happens, that usually means I am at logger heads with the countless chicken littles on these forums that see DOOOOM! at every change...
Before you try and twist that around to suit yourself, no... I am not crying DOOOM! over this... It will not kill anything, however, it is a clear and obvious nerf to XP gain which, as I have said from my very first post, I do not feel is warranted...
I also wonder if many of these people are getting warnings and/or bans for insulting and attacking the OP and his fleet.
If it helps , it's not everyone .
I've had my share of heated comments in that direction , however I recognize that the issue transcends player politics ,grudges, arguments & preconceptions .
To put it simply (from my POV) , each and every nerf in the past two years was accompanied by "at least we still have Doffing" sentiment .
Well, in the service of the almighty Spec tree, now this too must be "normalized" .
I kind of find it funny that the word "exploit" has yet to be thrown about .
At any rate, at the place where "cooler heads" reside (STOReddit) , where the rule of the day is to feel superior over this here "cesspool" of a forum, now we have a near 200 post of good old fashioned anger fest .
... guess they too realized that Cryptic is on the path to remold Doffing in the image of The Best Expansion Ever ...
Thanks grandnagus, for a giant quote telling us what we already know -- that this "error" was consciously allowed for years before the Devs up and said "well let's just take it out."
As always, great contributions to the threads you post in.
Always happy to meet a fan. And sure, I'll sign your autograph. Enjoy!
The discrepancy was deliberate as I remember talking to Heretic about it in the early days of the doff system.
The additional rewards were put in to encourage a certain type of behavior (logging twice a day), with a clear best strategy.
All commendations had it apart from Recruitment (until dyson land came around). Now it is all messed up and will make spec point earning stop completely for all of my toons. which means pretty much game over.
Uh.. what does it being 3 years matter? Sometimes you just don't notice bugs, and if it wasn't for the fact they were going to look at the doffing system for potential revamp, I doubt they'd be looking closely at the metrics for it now.
That said, it makes logical sense that you'd want them to scale appropriately.
The discrepancy was deliberate as I remember talking to Heretic about it in the early days of the doff system.
The additional rewards were put in to encourage a certain type of behavior (logging twice a day), with a clear best strategy.
All commendations had it apart from Recruitment (until dyson land came around). Now it is all messed up and will make spec point earning stop completely for all of my toons. which means pretty much game over.
I think I'd trust a current dev to know what the current intended behavior of a system is, especially since "The early days of the doff system" were years ago.
The discrepancy was deliberate as I remember talking to Heretic about it in the early days of the doff system.
The additional rewards were put in to encourage a certain type of behavior (logging twice a day), with a clear best strategy.
All commendations had it apart from Recruitment (until dyson land came around). Now it is all messed up and will make spec point earning stop completely for all of my toons. which means pretty much game over.
A few of us figured out how to abuse this and now the rest of you suffer. "What about new people?", "The F2P people are hurt!" are just excuses. Leveling (or specing) every day or every other day, are not what they want. Yet we can do it. Sure it helps you guys but, enough people figured out how to do it and it made it onto their radar.
I'd blame the PvP people but,
It's a cop out.
I don't PvP.
Seriously, DOFFing is like a build. These 12 hour missions were FAW. THIS they are willing to change.
I think I'd trust a current dev to know what the current intended behavior of a system is, especially since "The early days of the doff system" were years ago.
I'd rather trust the guy who basically made the Doff System on his own ... besides "the early days" aren't any different from today (until now) ... ever since "Heretic" left, Doffing was basically "stuck" (for a reason) ... sorry but it's like Toddlers trying to improve a "Picasso" ... the "new" Doff UI was bad enough ...
I'd rather trust the guy who basically made the Doff System on his own ... besides "the early days" aren't any different from today (until now) ... ever since "Heretic" left, Doffing was basically "stuck" (for a reason) ... sorry but it's like Toddlers trying to improve a "Picasso" ...
The payouts on some crits are pretty insane. 40k cxp. But the 20k skill points is what I imagine they are after. Want to stop doff power levelling. I doffed my DR from 17 to 60 in 5-6 days. But it is concerning that they are looking at a nerf here as well.
STFs pay almost nothing in skill points, patrols were nerfed as were mission replays. So how exactly is one to get them?
Well if you didn't notice for 3 years, you're completely out of touch with your own game ... like Howard Hughes peeing in bottles ...
I imagine the design people are also quite busy. They don't have the money, nor the time, to either overload someone or hire someone to constantly examine their metrics in detail. Things sometimes just aren't noticed.
I imagine the design people are also quite busy. They don't have the money, nor the time, to either overload someone or hire someone to constantly examine their metrics in detail. Things sometimes just aren't noticed.
Yeah ... I know playing your own game for 5min to figure it out, is kind of silly ... if you can rely on mystical "Metrics" ...
The payouts on some crits are pretty insane. 40k cxp. But the 20k skill points is what I imagine they are after. Want to stop doff power levelling. I doffed my DR from 17 to 60 in 5-6 days. But it is concerning that they are looking at a nerf here as well.
STFs pay almost nothing in skill points, patrols were nerfed as were mission replays. So how exactly is one to get them?
Uh.. what does it being 3 years matter? Sometimes you just don't notice bugs, and if it wasn't for the fact they were going to look at the doffing system for potential revamp, I doubt they'd be looking closely at the metrics for it now.
That said, it makes logical sense that you'd want them to scale appropriately.
well, in those 3 years, what problems did this cause?
Its likely some metric caught someone's eye and they had to get right on it.
One wonders why some 3 year old harmless bug gets attention while things that actually don't work get ignored. We are always told they only have so much manpower and have to prioritize.
Yeah ... I know playing your own game for 5min to figure it out, is kind of silly ... if you can rely on mystical "Metrics" ...
They do, but be honest, if you play and build a game, you will just overlook things. People are pretty human. It's why companies have metrics to begin with.
well, in those 3 years, what problems did this cause?
Its likely some metric caught someone's eye and they had to get right on it.
One wonders why some 3 year old harmless bug gets attention while things that actually don't work get ignored. We are always told they only have so much manpower and have to prioritize.
It's not very harmless and it's a very quick fix, and considering the sheer number of bug fixes coming out in Season 10, they're fixing a lot of things.
Comments
They should really "normalize" those Assignments, though ... 50k EC for some useless Turret ? ... but sure, XP-Rewards are "out of line" ! ...
TBH,taking into account the random mods, and there are more useful assignments out there. Those are my last resort choice for doff missions, Hell I'll pick up the 30min medical ones before touching those, although the console crafting one has yielded some nice results as of late. But again its just luck of the draw.
And I apologise for the wall of text in my previous post.
Also the doff missions to make stuff can apparently get crafted mods like [Over] etc...
My character Tsin'xing
part of the fun of doffing is that it's like a treasure hunt, you look around for the good missions, the "treasure"
almost all my chars are kdf and kdf/rom, my first char was kdf. when I made that first char I had no idea that 90% of the players were fed I only did it because the klingons seemed like more fun to me. and they still do.
[[mind you, it's a hassle finding people to play with, I'm lucky to have found some nice fedside people that don't terribly mind making private groups]]
what I'm trying to say, is that I happened into this doffing thing by accident and ... it's GREAT!
with limited time because of real world commitments I'll roll through my alts (fed included) and set research and set doff missions, with these awesome 12 hour treasure missions I can slowly move along multiple chars.
are they great? yes! are they OP? of course not. they aren't low hanging fruit, they aren't always there, it takes time to find them, and sometimes you don't find them! I have NO maxed chars, not one. even my main doesn't have capped spec points and NEVER HAS.
but, they are moved along a bit xp wise, and that's fun! I can give them neat ships and neat traits and move the little alt army along. for the fun of it. it's great fun finding these 12 hour doff missions with bonus xp, and it allows me to play the game the way I'd like to.
taking them away makes the game significantly worse for me. I'll certainly spend less
let me give you a real world example ---- there are a few traits that are really really great, or I just like them a lot. so, I visit the exchange frequently to grab them when they are a low low prices. why? because I have alts. why? because I am able to get them functional and move them along with these 12 hour doff missions.
YES REALLY, because of those great missions, I'm able to do more and spend more and have more fun
I'll miss them, a lot
Keeping up with my classic Science Fiction analogies to this game, here is an adaptation of the closing scene from the classic Twilight Zone episode 'The Monsters are Due on Maple Street'
Cryptic One. Understand the procedure now? Just 'normalize' a few of their leveling mechanisms, Missions Rewards, EC payouts, Dilitium rewards, Mark rewards, XP payouts, increased costs for all things and limit what the Bonus Weekend bonuses apply to, and then just sit back and watch the pattern.
Cryptic Two. And this pattern is always the same?
Cryptic One. With few variations. They pick the most dangerous enemy they can find . . .
and its themselves. And all we need do is sit back . . . and watch.
Cryptic Two. Then I take it this mechanism . . .this Doffing nerf . . . is not unique.
Cryptic One (shaking his head ). By no means. This game is full of mechanisms. And well
go from one to the other and let them destroy themselves. One to the other . . . . one to the
other . . . one to the other
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Maybe it hit a critical mass of popularity and someone made a decision to shut the spigot off.
Ah yes, the stupidity tax missions. We could honestly do with a few less of those.
Well said - Have a cookie
I also wonder if many of these people are getting warnings and/or bans for insulting and attacking the OP and his fleet. Of course the way things work around here he will likely get the warning.
in case you haven't figured it out yet.....
THE CAKE IS A LIE
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=23677591#post23677591
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Hmm yeah sorry we kind of did after 3 years ...
No need to accuse anyone ... afaik it's just common sense ...
*grasping at straws in desperation, while drowning* ... but missing "an obvious error" for 3 YEARS doesn't really fill me with confidence ...
And, of course you didn't bother to read anything more that had been discussed in this thread there after, before opening your mouth...
Not only did I come back and correct myself, as I had merely confused Supress Gorn Uprising durations with Suppress Civil Unrest, but I had stated from the beginning that I did not feel this nerf was necessary!
You wanna take a swipe at someone for something they did, or did not say, make sure you're lining them up for the right reason and not simply out of your own prejudices...
I'm not an apologist, white knight or what have you... I'm a pragmatist... Normally, I can see the reason behind why changes and nerfs are being made (the Particle Manipluator trait for example) and I will share my opinions accordingly...
When I disagree with something, I will disagree with it... It just so happens, that usually means I am at logger heads with the countless chicken littles on these forums that see DOOOOM! at every change...
Before you try and twist that around to suit yourself, no... I am not crying DOOOM! over this... It will not kill anything, however, it is a clear and obvious nerf to XP gain which, as I have said from my very first post, I do not feel is warranted...
If it helps , it's not everyone .
I've had my share of heated comments in that direction , however I recognize that the issue transcends player politics ,grudges, arguments & preconceptions .
To put it simply (from my POV) , each and every nerf in the past two years was accompanied by "at least we still have Doffing" sentiment .
Well, in the service of the almighty Spec tree, now this too must be "normalized" .
I kind of find it funny that the word "exploit" has yet to be thrown about .
At any rate, at the place where "cooler heads" reside (STOReddit) , where the rule of the day is to feel superior over this here "cesspool" of a forum, now we have a near 200 post of good old fashioned anger fest .
... guess they too realized that Cryptic is on the path to remold Doffing in the image of The Best Expansion Ever ...
Always happy to meet a fan. And sure, I'll sign your autograph. Enjoy!
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/34lyqm/12_hour_doff_job_nerf_on_tribble_ninety_per_cent/
^these are the discussions taking place. Please for the love of God change course.
The discrepancy was deliberate as I remember talking to Heretic about it in the early days of the doff system.
The additional rewards were put in to encourage a certain type of behavior (logging twice a day), with a clear best strategy.
All commendations had it apart from Recruitment (until dyson land came around). Now it is all messed up and will make spec point earning stop completely for all of my toons. which means pretty much game over.
...#LLAP...
That said, it makes logical sense that you'd want them to scale appropriately.
I think I'd trust a current dev to know what the current intended behavior of a system is, especially since "The early days of the doff system" were years ago.
how about some discussion along this front,
is this true? it's plausible
A few of us figured out how to abuse this and now the rest of you suffer. "What about new people?", "The F2P people are hurt!" are just excuses. Leveling (or specing) every day or every other day, are not what they want. Yet we can do it. Sure it helps you guys but, enough people figured out how to do it and it made it onto their radar.
I'd blame the PvP people but,
Seriously, DOFFing is like a build. These 12 hour missions were FAW. THIS they are willing to change.
I'd rather trust the guy who basically made the Doff System on his own ... besides "the early days" aren't any different from today (until now) ... ever since "Heretic" left, Doffing was basically "stuck" (for a reason) ... sorry but it's like Toddlers trying to improve a "Picasso" ... the "new" Doff UI was bad enough ...
Well if you didn't notice for 3 years, you're completely out of touch with your own game ... like Howard Hughes peeing in bottles ...
I wouldn't.
STFs pay almost nothing in skill points, patrols were nerfed as were mission replays. So how exactly is one to get them?
I imagine the design people are also quite busy. They don't have the money, nor the time, to either overload someone or hire someone to constantly examine their metrics in detail. Things sometimes just aren't noticed.
Yeah ... I know playing your own game for 5min to figure it out, is kind of silly ... if you can rely on mystical "Metrics" ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTjALTCD4AA
We have Chuck Norris here :eek:
well, in those 3 years, what problems did this cause?
Its likely some metric caught someone's eye and they had to get right on it.
One wonders why some 3 year old harmless bug gets attention while things that actually don't work get ignored. We are always told they only have so much manpower and have to prioritize.
They do, but be honest, if you play and build a game, you will just overlook things. People are pretty human. It's why companies have metrics to begin with.
It's not very harmless and it's a very quick fix, and considering the sheer number of bug fixes coming out in Season 10, they're fixing a lot of things.
Of course not ... people might experience Fun & meaningful progression ...