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"STO is not only healthy but is growing"

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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Stardestroyer, your post is 17x better than the average one so I decided to make a sig to reflect just that!

    Seriously, you had to bring the steam chart into play again for your signature? Steam may be the only visible list of numbers that we may have access to, but it is by no means a reflection of the entire game. Not everyone launches with Steam.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The word "healthy" is such a bizarre word to use. Why not anything except the barely baseline acceptable "healthy." Someone can walk out of the hospital healthy, but that says nothing about their happiness.

    Claiming that something is healthy suggests that there are real questions about its health that require a response in those terms. You aren't talking about vibrancy or excitement. You are merely talking about health.

    Smells like marketing fluff to me. It's not like they are going to say, "Our players' interactions with the game are strained, the general attitude towards our work is hostile and abusive. We have imposed and fostered an adversarial mentality between the player base and our development and management teams. We've had to impose policies on the forums to artificially reduce the general negativity expressed by dissatisfied clients who we blame for our mistakes. Instead of glowing excitement about the game the players are labouring under an oppressive and drearily repetitive play environment and are in general despair of any positive changes."

    If you are in marketing, you are supposed to write good things about the product. If the truth is not positive, you look elsewhere.

    I suppose they intend to persevere in spite of the players. In spite of the players. In spite of. In spite.
  • edited January 2015
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  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I find this weird. There is not an Us vs Them mentality. Not between the players and devs anyway or better said all players don't fall under the "Us" umbrella. There is far too many sub-groups in STO playerbase to have a real "Us"

    Hardcore pve players vs hardcore pvp players
    Fed only players vs everyone that thinks feds got too much
    RPers vs the fun bunch
    Market gurus vs hippies :D
    Foundry writers vs Foundry grinder makers

    I'm pretty sure there is even more groups. I think I only see players (not all players) that try to lump up us as a one group and that is wrong.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Seriously, you had to bring the steam chart into play again for your signature? Steam may be the only visible list of numbers that we may have access to, but it is by no means a reflection of the entire game. Not everyone launches with Steam.
    Unless all of a sudden all the steam users decided to leave the game, while non steam users decided to play, it's a perfectly valid tool to see trends.
    Especially considering DR was largely advertised on Steam, just like LoR.

    But if you want others tool, let's give them to you :
    -I've never seen such a low activity on the PESTF channel. Did everyone leave the chan when DR released ? Usually you could make an ISE is less than 10m (find a team and complete it), I spent 20-30m to do an ISA the last time (EU prime time), and announcements are scarce.
    -Queues are empty. Except for CE (hurray)
    -The sheer amount of giveaway and popular event when DR was released. Sometimes several at the same moment. Something we never saw. Usually those events are a good way to make people talk about the game, and log in, you absolutely don't need them (or that much) when you release new content. Especially when the players are supposedly playing this new content, not your event.
    -The rather toxic forums, and even outside of the forum post (STO news on various game website for example). While it may (or not) be attributed to a whining minority or whatever you call them, there might be some reason for all of that, don't you think ?
    -So many people in Tau Dewa when the game was released. If DR was that great, most players would have been there, while a minority would have been "exploiting" the old content for some gain. But it seems it was quite the opposite, as we had a lot more Tau Dewa instance than the combined 2 DQ sectors. So much that the devs had to close the entire sector in emergency.

    I'll add those giveaway and events are clearly seen on the steam chart. Another proof that steamchart is not so bad when it comes to see trends.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I find this weird. There is not an Us vs Them mentality. Not between the players and devs anyway or better said all players don't fall under the "Us" umbrella. There is far too many sub-groups in STO playerbase to have a real "Us"

    Hardcore pve players vs hardcore pvp players
    Fed only players vs everyone that thinks feds got too much
    RPers vs the fun bunch
    Market gurus vs hippies :D
    Foundry writers vs Foundry grinder makers

    I'm pretty sure there is even more groups. I think I only see players (not all players) that try to lump up us as a one group and that is wrong.

    They accused us of "exploiting" Tau Dewa sector patrols. Careful, now. The obvious is right there to be tripped over in your haste. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.

    I know memories are short, but...
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    .....nutbs, just nutbs....
  • leceterleceter Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    aoax10 wrote: »
    On topic. STO is healthy and growing...
    Proof please?

    1. Star Trek Online gained a whole new sector plus episodes. It's growing obviously.

    2. I see Sheshar Dreadnought everywhere, they must have sold thousands. With that much gambling income (~100 R&D Packs each) for the most expensive ship in-game, it's obviously healthy.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    raeat wrote: »
    They accused us of "exploiting" Tau Dewa sector patrols. Careful, now. The obvious is right there to be tripped over in your haste. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.

    I know memories are short, but...

    Are you talking about this post? I don't see anything that sounds like "all players are dirty exploiting badmen" but if you can find solid proof of that of that then I will get the taste of lizard out my mouth and happily hop on your anti-hype train. I will even get my wife to make hoo-I mean hats for us all when ride up to Cryptic with the rope.
  • lordkhoraklordkhorak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    qjunior wrote: »
    An Apology Event for all the people missing out on their Breen ship discounts because "holidays and drunk and stuff". :D

    My computer picked now to start imploding. I can't run any game with this thing you call 'graphics' until the new one arrives.

    I didn't even get druuuuuuuuuuunk! *sob* :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    leceter wrote: »
    2. I see Sheshar Dreadnought everywhere, they must have sold thousands. With that much gambling income (~100 R&D Packs each) for the most expensive ship in-game, it's obviously healthy.

    Right on the money, literally. DR is a success and the players love...to chuck cash at it. If this were my F2P MMO I'd be smiling as well.

    It is the one thing I take away from DR as far as the community is concerned, everyone is so fickle it's funny. One moment they are announcing to the world they quit or they won't spend a dime more. Next moment an expansion arrives and we see them flying by in their shiney new T6 Intel ships.

    Give it a few weeks and they are back here complaining about how terrible everything is.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    coupaholic wrote: »
    Right on the money, literally. DR is a success and the players love...to chuck cash at it. If this were my F2P MMO I'd be smiling as well.

    It is the one thing I take away from DR as far as the community is concerned, everyone is so fickle it's funny. One moment they are announcing to the world they quit or they won't spend a dime more. Next moment an expansion arrives and we see them flying by in their shiney new T6 Intel ships.

    Give it a few weeks and they are back here complaining about how terrible everything is.

    This is just like back when he was EP before when people were up in arms about that first jem hadar lockbox and he did the propaganda spill about how it was so great then a few lockboxes later everyone was fed up and didn't buy any keys.

    So after that a survey went out and most of the player base back then pretty much never returned. So they apparently got stahl to replace him. What is going to happen is that they will put someone else in the chair and might give us 1 or 2 things we want or make it look like it only to break or never make it into the game. Its nothing against the EP per say its the *hubris* that they haven't put it up for an actual studio who can handle it to be given the license to take over this game because they can't handle the work load that has to be done. All they do is pump more bloated items into the game that really make the game feel less trek and at most of us who are mmorpg players at the core have gone onto other games.

    As far as STO goes right now being the grindfest that it is I most likely will not grind a single character to the depths that they want to get thru the long drawn out system that my opinion isn't even worth bothering with much like the delta rep. I'll login do story once when new ones come out but as far as day to day grindfest player I used to be those days are over. There will be others like me and they will see the damage its doing to the game and they won't admit it but they will send out emails and posts on facebook but most of them I will pass off as fluff that I don't care about.

    So in the end I am done with the grind if thats what they are going to dish out then don't bother lol. Even massively called them out on the KDF thats how unhealthy the game is. Its kind of like someone interviewing a bank robber they would say come on pick a different bank you already hit this one 20 times in the last 2 years.
  • willamsheridanwillamsheridan Member Posts: 1,189 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The reason (and the Problem, i think) why DR is "healthy" is this:

    Some players are investing a lot of money for STO, more than pre-DR. Even i spent more money on the game but in the end it dedn´t feel rewarding because basically we got nothing new in the game, onyl enemies have insane amounts of HP now (seriously a BoP that has several times the HP of a Fed cruiser?) and are harder to kill so Weaker Players + Stronger enemies. So we have to upgrade to get back to where we were before.

    Thats no good change. Different enemies, better AI so they are a match for you would be great but not simply stupid shooting till they explode or you explode. And Upgrading isn´t cheap, esepecially for newbies. And without good gear its hard to fill the Rep. projects because the missions to gez the required stuff are either too hard or start do get really, really annoying.

    So thats the Problem. maybe some players invested a lot more money but they won´t do that forever and many "small payers" and f2p players left. THats certain (queues, Systems, missions, chat just checck it)


    So the overall playerbase is getting smaller and STOs "survival" depends on everyone spending money constantly on the game. So more and more players are "Elitists" and the newbies and f2p base gets left behind. But thats a Bubble, a "Grind-Bubble" and someday it will pop. Maybe because the elitists loose interest in the game or maybe because there are to few players or because it just gets too expensive.


    Some features like the Rep. System and Specialisations are really great but it takes too long until you get what you want

    I just think that STO was far more fun pre-DR.
  • swatopswatop Member Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    the certainly mean "negative growth"

    the game is anything but not healthy... it is full of exploiters and people that have to be silenced on the forum
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Are you talking about this post? I don't see anything that sounds like "all players are dirty exploiting badmen" but if you can find solid proof of that of that then I will get the taste of lizard out my mouth and happily hop on your anti-hype train. I will even get my wife to make hoo-I mean hats for us all when ride up to Cryptic with the rope.

    Have you actually read that post? It has next to no content and provides no clarity at all. Unspecified players were using unspecified "bugs" to gain significant advantage over ... who precisely? But the unspecified players were definitely in the wrong and were therefore "exploiters." The Tau Dewa sector patrols were never before "bug" laden, but suddenly they were and the players, apparently lying in wait after all that time, decided to pounce when the time was right. In other words, they played the game as they always had, but suddenly what they were doing was somehow wrong.

    Every aspect of the game can be exploited to gain advantage over players who do not play that aspect. If someone uses Aux2Bat and I don't, they have a power level advantage over me, those evil, exploiting TRIBBLE! Well, maybe not "exploiters" yet, but who knows what the future may bring? The statement by D'Angelo had no substantive content, except "players bad, devs victims, waah!"

    I'm sorry if your cognitive skills are not up to this task, but tell your wife she need not fear. I will not require you to live up to your offer.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    coupaholic wrote: »
    It is the one thing I take away from DR as far as the community is concerned, everyone is so fickle it's funny. One moment they are announcing to the world they quit or they won't spend a dime more. Next moment an expansion arrives and we see them flying by in their shiney new T6 Intel ships.

    It's not a black & white issue. Unfortunately, the solution *is*: either you quit, or you don't. Me? I hate the vile Upgreed system; and yet I'm flying around in my fully Epic T6 Phantom. Because the alternative is to (effectively) quit: just logging in, not spending a dime any more, reallly is just that.

    I almost quit over Specgate, though, as that would have been the final straw to me, had those points not been restored. But I don't quit over the insane prices of everything -- even though I hate that aspect of the game. For one, because I have simply invested too much money in this game to just call it quits; and, for two, me not playing doesn't really hurt Cryptic; or, if it does, it hurts me far more (meaning, sitting here, saying "I really showed them, did't I?!", after I quit, means nothing to Cryptic, yet just leaves me empty-handed).
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  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I was asking for proof that the devs did and I quote
    accused us of "exploiting" Tau Dewa sector patrols.

    The thread I linked was the only one I could find that came close to what to what you think the devs did. Based off what little I could understand from your rambling you don't the head cheese said not much.

    Let me try to break it down.

    Me: IDIC baby, lumping STO players into one grey gooey mess is really herbert you dig crazy cat or catmandon't want to dig?

    You:The devs call everyone cheaters!

    Me: Proof it pudding pops. From I understand man they went after few and hit the many. While a herbert would keep it moving Cryptic showed some real classy moves by fixing their mistake even when it meant letting the robbers getaway with their ill gotten loot.

    You: You're dumb. I can read between the lines and know dev talk because I stayed at a Best Western.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    raeat wrote: »
    Have you actually read that post? It has next to no content and provides no clarity at all. Unspecified players were using unspecified "bugs" to gain significant advantage over ... who precisely? But the unspecified players were definitely in the wrong and were therefore "exploiters." The Tau Dewa sector patrols were never before "bug" laden, but suddenly they were and the players, apparently lying in wait after all that time, decided to pounce when the time was right. In other words, they played the game as they always had, but suddenly what they were doing was somehow wrong.

    Every aspect of the game can be exploited to gain advantage over players who do not play that aspect. If someone uses Aux2Bat and I don't, they have a power level advantage over me, those evil, exploiting TRIBBLE! Well, maybe not "exploiters" yet, but who knows what the future may bring? The statement by D'Angelo had no substantive content, except "players bad, devs victims, waah!"

    I'm sorry if your cognitive skills are not up to this task, but tell your wife she need not fear. I will not require you to live up to your offer.
    The bug with Tau Dewa didn't exist prior to the level cap being raised. The simple explanation is that the xp didn't scale properly when there were players over level 50 doing them. Which in some cases caused it to give the player around 17x the xp it should have. And no I won't go into more detail, because it's against the forum rules to actually explain how to replicate exploits.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Me: IDIC baby, lumping STO players into one grey gooey mess is really herbert you dig crazy cat or catmandon't want to dig?

    Wut!?
    You: You're dumb. I can read between and know dev talk because I stayed at a Best Western.

    If so smart you are, how come proper sentences form you cannot?!
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    It is 7:21 am here and I have been up all night. YAAAAAAAAY!
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The bug with Tau Dewa didn't exist prior to the level cap being raised. The simple explanation is that the xp didn't scale properly when there were players over level 50 doing them. Which in some cases caused it to give the player around 17x the xp it should have. And no I won't go into more detail, because it's against the forum rules to actually explain how to replicate exploits.

    No, you are wrong here. That feature has always existed, you could get a player from 1-50 in 1-2 hours with it prior, its just that the devs didn't give a TRIBBLE about 1-50, ever.
    Delirium Tremens
    Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
    Nothing to do anymore.
    http://dtfleet.com/
    Visit our Youtube channel
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    nicha0 wrote: »
    No, you are wrong here. That feature has always existed, you could get a player from 1-50 in 1-2 hours with it prior, its just that the devs didn't give a TRIBBLE about 1-50, ever.

    wat? Wait....outside of doing something funky I don't think you could do Tau Dewa patrols unless you are level 50. Also if you look at markhawkman said the deal was not with 1-50 leveling. It was 51-everything else leveling that Tau Dewa a good looking at.
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    wat? Wait....outside of doing something funky I don't think you could do Tau Dewa patrols unless you are level 50. Also if you look at markhawkman said the deal was not with 1-50 leveling. It was 51-everything else leveling that Tau Dewa a good looking at.

    It wasn't Tau Dewa that was bugged, any mission could be run the same way, the method they used to calculate XP has always been completely screwed up.
    But on this dev team their ignorance is the player's exploiting
    Delirium Tremens
    Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
    Nothing to do anymore.
    http://dtfleet.com/
    Visit our Youtube channel
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The developers were kind of right.

    Their point was, that we knew they wanted to nerf the exp into ruin - and so we knew that japori was an exploit as far japori hadn't been nerfed like everything else in the game.

    So in other words, stfu and eat your grinding, more coming
  • mhirtescmhirtesc Member Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Original news article: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9052293

    Bahahahahaha.

    While I'll give them credit for "STO is growing", healthy is a COMPLETELY different matter!

    Bugs, broken systems, endless grind to player dissatisfaction... Hardly signs of a healthy MMO.

    Where is this STO that is allegedly "healthy and growing"? On Bizarro World? The STO here is a short bus full of Pakleds where the Devs cannot even make a starship run in the right direction, yet can immediately go in and crush people's fun by gimping XP gains.

    And Smirk only shows up on ESD when he wants his ego stroked. If he gets too many players asking questions he doesn't like, he goes "HEY LOOK OVER THERE!" and throws a ninja smokebomb at his feet to make a hasty exit.

    As I mentioned in another thread, there may as well be a load screen that reads "This Is Star Trek Online. F**K YOU!".

    We all know that PWE is desperate to puff up their stock value bigtime in order to get as much cash grab as they can from their imminent buyout, but I wish they would spare us from the unmitigated BS they are spewing about STO's popularity or even it's stability. It's an insult to our intelligence.
  • mhirtescmhirtesc Member Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Y'know, it could be that more players enjoy what STO is than those who do not. We could be attracting players that don't mind or even prefer long grinds and such.

    I could be completely wrong though, but it's a possibility.


    Okay, I'm now convinced that you are a paid shill for the forums. I have yet to read one single post you have ever made that hasn't made me want to punch my fist through the monitor because you're always being the official apologist for them, no matter how atrocious and incompetent they are.
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    STO is growing 17x faster than intended. Nerf it.
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  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Don't look at me. I use proper sentence form. If Rosetyler51 is trying to parody me by using baby talk, then clearly he/she/it does have some sort of cognitive dysfunction. I pointed out the emptiness, and final net result, of DeAngelo's post and Rosetyler51 (while trying to straw man my arguments) started babbling like a hippy-baby. Some basic education might be needed to deal with that, and I am not being paid to baby-step him/her/it through basic propositional calculus.
  • mrtsheadmrtshead Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mhirtesc wrote: »
    Okay, I'm now convinced that you are a paid shill for the forums. I have yet to read one single post you have ever made that hasn't made me want to punch my fist through the monitor because you're always being the official apologist for them, no matter how atrocious and incompetent they are.

    That's weird, because I'm now convinced YOU are a sock-puppet account for an out of control limbic system that happens to wear a human being as a coat. Have you considered the possibility that maybe your feelings are simply wrong, and that even if they aren't, the rational thing for you to do would be to simply shut up and stop playing? Either you are wrong, and despite your personal irrational dislike of the game, things really are good (so they likely won't change to suit you), or you are right, and the developers really are "atrocious" and "incompetent", and you won't ever get what you want because they simply won't be able to deliver.
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