Just going to say something about how little boys should not lie about wolves and leave it at that.
Keep trolling along, it just makes you look silly. We are trying to discuss things in this thread, so why not cut out the ad hominem and join the group?
Fun? Like some kind of filthy casual?! Why would you insult new players with such vulgarity? :eek:
Jokes aside didn't the Steam chart thing people were throwing around to show how STO lost a bunch of players when Delta Rising launched actualy show that while there was indeed a drop off from November to December the game still had a net increase in players, well players using steam at least, compared to the same time period last year?
Keep trolling along, it just makes you look silly. We are trying to discuss things in this thread, so why not cut out the ad hominem and join the group?
On topic. STO is healthy and growing...no matter what some people think. While there is flaws I have trust that they will be taken care when they can and I understand that the time that I would like those flaws taken care of may not be soon.
And I believe enough in my fellow STO players that they will show the understanding, tolerance, teamwork, problem solving, and all around greatness of humanity that Star Trek shows that we have within ourselves.
The tone deafness to what Smirk only recently called "the pulse of the playerbase" :rolleyes: is astounding.
Delta Rising has some great content to be sure, and 2014 definitely brought us some good stuff...
But there's a lot more that is deeply unpopular and these guys clearly don't give a damn.
The problem here is that we keep voting FOR all of this TRIBBLE with our wallets. STOP picking up every new shiny that comes along in the Z-Store and Lobi Store. STOP grinding your toons into oblivion, killing mindless mobs with more hp for fewer rewards.
As long as you don't STOP, you allow TRIBBLE like this to continue and be published as a success (with a smile), letting the likes of D'Angelo and Rivera make a damn fool out of you.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
Proof that STO isnt? All these hatred by forum dwellers are merely minorities and have no metrics on the real stat.
If you want to base it on in game experience, At one point Sheshar was being opened every minute for hours based on the ingame announcement.
Compare that population to those who have been whinning about the game which numbers a dozen or two. Thousands of customers satisfied customers who dont spend their time that much in forums vs a few players who spends hours in the forums whinning.
Take your pick which should Cryptic listen to a few who claim to be the playerbase or the thousands who are the real playerbase?
Proof that STO isnt? All these hatred by forum dwellers are merely minorities and have no metrics on the real stat.
If you want to base it on in game experience, At one point Sheshar was being opened every minute for hours based on the ingame announcement.
Compare that population to those who have been whinning about the game which numbers a dozen or two. Thousands of customers satisfied customers who dont spend their time that much in forums vs a few players who spends hours in the forums whinning.
Take your pick which should Cryptic listen to a few who claim to be the playerbase or the thousands who are the real playerbase?
No. Proof that it's growing and healthy. Somebody made the positive claim and now they have to back it up.
Proof that STO isnt? All these hatred by forum dwellers are merely minorities and have no metrics on the real stat.
If you want to base it on in game experience, At one point Sheshar was being opened every minute for hours based on the ingame announcement.
Compare that population to those who have been whinning about the game which numbers a dozen or two. Thousands of customers satisfied customers who dont spend their time that much in forums vs a few players who spends hours in the forums whinning.
Take your pick which should Cryptic listen to a few who claim to be the playerbase or the thousands who are the real playerbase?
You're on the forum. Why would anyone listen to you, you forum dweller?
orange is currently the #1 cryptic-is-awesome and cryptic-is-the-victim white knight CDF (Cryptic Defense Force) poster on the forums. You cannot take anything he says without the world's supply of grains of salt to counteract it. He can't be talked to or argued with, so don't bother.
Have you ever considered that the arguments presented to him/her/it are not convincing enough? Especially since ultimately - whether you like a game is not based on other people's argument, but on your feelings of playing the game.
I mean, there are plenty of naysayers on the forums, right? Do they ever change their mind? Or can they actually no be argued with and one should not bother?
Or are you assuming that the naysayers are always right? But then, what chance do we have for an argument?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
No. Proof that it's growing and healthy. Somebody made the positive claim and now they have to back it up.
Last year it had more updates than ever before. If it was unhealthy and not growing, that would not have happened.
But I don't have player statistics or insight into STO's financials. But I very strongly suspect that D'Angelo does. He says the game is growing and healthy. Maybe he is a liar. But if he is, then we have no useful data, only anecdotes of individual players, to go on, and the problems of selection bias on forums and all that. So there is no proof for anything.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Started playing yesterday. Never tried sto before because it got so bad reviews at release. Now im enjoying it fully. Being a ole trekkie fan might have something to do it. So far Im really enjoying this game as a singleplayer game...dont even care about the mmo If somebody has some good ideaa about the fps I would appriciate. This game is 4 years ole and should run fluently on my rig.
I mean, there are plenty of naysayers on the forums, right? Do they ever change their mind? Or can they actually no be argued with and one should not bother?
Not really. The best you can hope is that they either finally decide to leave, or they keep quiet when substantial proof to the contrary is presented.
It seems to be a common theme in all Internet debating. You decide a positon and come hell or high water you do not budge from it. Facts tend to come secondary to scewed perspective and cherry picking tidbits that support said positions.
Sometimes though, someone will surprise you and even go so far as to admit they are wrong in public. It's very rare though.
As for me I really couldn't care either way. If STO looks to still be going strong then all power to it, they must be doing something right. If it folds tomorrow it's no big loss, plenty of other ways to waste time.
Interesting side-note - I was watching Totalbiscuit's podcast last night for a bit and Nerd3 was the special guest. Nerd3 recently made a video for his channel on STO and I got the impression TB will be checking it out as well.
What does this mean? STO is in fact good enough to attract the attention of such 'celebrities'? Or will the Cynical Brit tell his millions of subscribers that STO is a broken, grindy mess?
How about fun? How about the simple joy of interacting with an unfolding story, learning where it's going (and, on later playthroughs, how you can alter it by your actions), seeing what becomes of the various characters you encounter?
Why must everything be rewarded by stuff? What's wrong with just enjoying yourself? Do you refuse to watch television unless the producers pay you? Do you avoid any sporting events where you don't have actual money riding on the outcome? Do you only like songs you're getting royalties for?
Why can't entertainment simply be, well, entertaining?
I'm having a heck of a time, myself. If you're not, well, sorry for ya.
(Oh, by the way, "NONE" on the Rep Marks? My 500 Delta Marks would beg to differ...)
If you can derive entertainment from those story arcs and terrible, terrible villains then hey, more power to you. If you can derive entertainment from some of the most generically written stories, esp since they stopped doing Faction-Specific Stories long ago, then more power to you. If you can derive entertainment from stories written as if you were a Starfleet captain and not the KDF / Rom Republic Captain you are playing, then more power to you.
"Why must everything be rewarded"...? I take it you don't uderstand how MMOs work then? We're not playing freaking Myst here.
And if all you got are 500 Delta Marks since DR released, you just helped make my point in how uselessly rewarding those "story missions" really are.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Stardestroyer, your post is 17x better than the average one so I decided to make a sig to reflect just that!
Seriously, you had to bring the steam chart into play again for your signature? Steam may be the only visible list of numbers that we may have access to, but it is by no means a reflection of the entire game. Not everyone launches with Steam.
The word "healthy" is such a bizarre word to use. Why not anything except the barely baseline acceptable "healthy." Someone can walk out of the hospital healthy, but that says nothing about their happiness.
Claiming that something is healthy suggests that there are real questions about its health that require a response in those terms. You aren't talking about vibrancy or excitement. You are merely talking about health.
Smells like marketing fluff to me. It's not like they are going to say, "Our players' interactions with the game are strained, the general attitude towards our work is hostile and abusive. We have imposed and fostered an adversarial mentality between the player base and our development and management teams. We've had to impose policies on the forums to artificially reduce the general negativity expressed by dissatisfied clients who we blame for our mistakes. Instead of glowing excitement about the game the players are labouring under an oppressive and drearily repetitive play environment and are in general despair of any positive changes."
If you are in marketing, you are supposed to write good things about the product. If the truth is not positive, you look elsewhere.
I suppose they intend to persevere in spite of the players. In spite of the players. In spite of. In spite.
I find this weird. There is not an Us vs Them mentality. Not between the players and devs anyway or better said all players don't fall under the "Us" umbrella. There is far too many sub-groups in STO playerbase to have a real "Us"
Hardcore pve players vs hardcore pvp players
Fed only players vs everyone that thinks feds got too much
RPers vs the fun bunch
Market gurus vs hippies
Foundry writers vs Foundry grinder makers
I'm pretty sure there is even more groups. I think I only see players (not all players) that try to lump up us as a one group and that is wrong.
Seriously, you had to bring the steam chart into play again for your signature? Steam may be the only visible list of numbers that we may have access to, but it is by no means a reflection of the entire game. Not everyone launches with Steam.
Unless all of a sudden all the steam users decided to leave the game, while non steam users decided to play, it's a perfectly valid tool to see trends.
Especially considering DR was largely advertised on Steam, just like LoR.
But if you want others tool, let's give them to you :
-I've never seen such a low activity on the PESTF channel. Did everyone leave the chan when DR released ? Usually you could make an ISE is less than 10m (find a team and complete it), I spent 20-30m to do an ISA the last time (EU prime time), and announcements are scarce.
-Queues are empty. Except for CE (hurray)
-The sheer amount of giveaway and popular event when DR was released. Sometimes several at the same moment. Something we never saw. Usually those events are a good way to make people talk about the game, and log in, you absolutely don't need them (or that much) when you release new content. Especially when the players are supposedly playing this new content, not your event.
-The rather toxic forums, and even outside of the forum post (STO news on various game website for example). While it may (or not) be attributed to a whining minority or whatever you call them, there might be some reason for all of that, don't you think ?
-So many people in Tau Dewa when the game was released. If DR was that great, most players would have been there, while a minority would have been "exploiting" the old content for some gain. But it seems it was quite the opposite, as we had a lot more Tau Dewa instance than the combined 2 DQ sectors. So much that the devs had to close the entire sector in emergency.
I'll add those giveaway and events are clearly seen on the steam chart. Another proof that steamchart is not so bad when it comes to see trends.
I find this weird. There is not an Us vs Them mentality. Not between the players and devs anyway or better said all players don't fall under the "Us" umbrella. There is far too many sub-groups in STO playerbase to have a real "Us"
Hardcore pve players vs hardcore pvp players
Fed only players vs everyone that thinks feds got too much
RPers vs the fun bunch
Market gurus vs hippies
Foundry writers vs Foundry grinder makers
I'm pretty sure there is even more groups. I think I only see players (not all players) that try to lump up us as a one group and that is wrong.
They accused us of "exploiting" Tau Dewa sector patrols. Careful, now. The obvious is right there to be tripped over in your haste. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.
1. Star Trek Online gained a whole new sector plus episodes. It's growing obviously.
2. I see Sheshar Dreadnought everywhere, they must have sold thousands. With that much gambling income (~100 R&D Packs each) for the most expensive ship in-game, it's obviously healthy.
Comments
Keep trolling along, it just makes you look silly. We are trying to discuss things in this thread, so why not cut out the ad hominem and join the group?
Free Tibet!
Fun? Like some kind of filthy casual?! Why would you insult new players with such vulgarity? :eek:
Jokes aside didn't the Steam chart thing people were throwing around to show how STO lost a bunch of players when Delta Rising launched actualy show that while there was indeed a drop off from November to December the game still had a net increase in players, well players using steam at least, compared to the same time period last year?
On topic. STO is healthy and growing...no matter what some people think. While there is flaws I have trust that they will be taken care when they can and I understand that the time that I would like those flaws taken care of may not be soon.
And I believe enough in my fellow STO players that they will show the understanding, tolerance, teamwork, problem solving, and all around greatness of humanity that Star Trek shows that we have within ourselves.
I remember a time when they did. If they did that now, every blog post's comment section would be filled with flames. :rolleyes:
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Delta Rising has some great content to be sure, and 2014 definitely brought us some good stuff...
But there's a lot more that is deeply unpopular and these guys clearly don't give a damn.
The problem here is that we keep voting FOR all of this TRIBBLE with our wallets. STOP picking up every new shiny that comes along in the Z-Store and Lobi Store. STOP grinding your toons into oblivion, killing mindless mobs with more hp for fewer rewards.
As long as you don't STOP, you allow TRIBBLE like this to continue and be published as a success (with a smile), letting the likes of D'Angelo and Rivera make a damn fool out of you.
Proof please?
Proof that STO isnt? All these hatred by forum dwellers are merely minorities and have no metrics on the real stat.
If you want to base it on in game experience, At one point Sheshar was being opened every minute for hours based on the ingame announcement.
Compare that population to those who have been whinning about the game which numbers a dozen or two. Thousands of customers satisfied customers who dont spend their time that much in forums vs a few players who spends hours in the forums whinning.
Take your pick which should Cryptic listen to a few who claim to be the playerbase or the thousands who are the real playerbase?
No. Proof that it's growing and healthy. Somebody made the positive claim and now they have to back it up.
You're on the forum. Why would anyone listen to you, you forum dweller?
Free Tibet!
Sounds like an attack on someone's character and that is a "bad thing"
His words
Free Tibet!
"When you fight fire with fire all you have leave is ash."
Please get back on topic.
I mean, there are plenty of naysayers on the forums, right? Do they ever change their mind? Or can they actually no be argued with and one should not bother?
Or are you assuming that the naysayers are always right? But then, what chance do we have for an argument?
Last year it had more updates than ever before. If it was unhealthy and not growing, that would not have happened.
But I don't have player statistics or insight into STO's financials. But I very strongly suspect that D'Angelo does. He says the game is growing and healthy. Maybe he is a liar. But if he is, then we have no useful data, only anecdotes of individual players, to go on, and the problems of selection bias on forums and all that. So there is no proof for anything.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Not really. The best you can hope is that they either finally decide to leave, or they keep quiet when substantial proof to the contrary is presented.
It seems to be a common theme in all Internet debating. You decide a positon and come hell or high water you do not budge from it. Facts tend to come secondary to scewed perspective and cherry picking tidbits that support said positions.
Sometimes though, someone will surprise you and even go so far as to admit they are wrong in public. It's very rare though.
As for me I really couldn't care either way. If STO looks to still be going strong then all power to it, they must be doing something right. If it folds tomorrow it's no big loss, plenty of other ways to waste time.
Interesting side-note - I was watching Totalbiscuit's podcast last night for a bit and Nerd3 was the special guest. Nerd3 recently made a video for his channel on STO and I got the impression TB will be checking it out as well.
What does this mean? STO is in fact good enough to attract the attention of such 'celebrities'? Or will the Cynical Brit tell his millions of subscribers that STO is a broken, grindy mess?
If you can derive entertainment from those story arcs and terrible, terrible villains then hey, more power to you. If you can derive entertainment from some of the most generically written stories, esp since they stopped doing Faction-Specific Stories long ago, then more power to you. If you can derive entertainment from stories written as if you were a Starfleet captain and not the KDF / Rom Republic Captain you are playing, then more power to you.
"Why must everything be rewarded"...? I take it you don't uderstand how MMOs work then? We're not playing freaking Myst here.
And if all you got are 500 Delta Marks since DR released, you just helped make my point in how uselessly rewarding those "story missions" really are.
Joined January 2009
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Remember, if the Cryptic bashing stops then Geko won and some people are far too bitter to do the smart thing and just walk away.
Seriously, you had to bring the steam chart into play again for your signature? Steam may be the only visible list of numbers that we may have access to, but it is by no means a reflection of the entire game. Not everyone launches with Steam.
Claiming that something is healthy suggests that there are real questions about its health that require a response in those terms. You aren't talking about vibrancy or excitement. You are merely talking about health.
Smells like marketing fluff to me. It's not like they are going to say, "Our players' interactions with the game are strained, the general attitude towards our work is hostile and abusive. We have imposed and fostered an adversarial mentality between the player base and our development and management teams. We've had to impose policies on the forums to artificially reduce the general negativity expressed by dissatisfied clients who we blame for our mistakes. Instead of glowing excitement about the game the players are labouring under an oppressive and drearily repetitive play environment and are in general despair of any positive changes."
If you are in marketing, you are supposed to write good things about the product. If the truth is not positive, you look elsewhere.
I suppose they intend to persevere in spite of the players. In spite of the players. In spite of. In spite.
Hardcore pve players vs hardcore pvp players
Fed only players vs everyone that thinks feds got too much
RPers vs the fun bunch
Market gurus vs hippies
Foundry writers vs Foundry grinder makers
I'm pretty sure there is even more groups. I think I only see players (not all players) that try to lump up us as a one group and that is wrong.
Especially considering DR was largely advertised on Steam, just like LoR.
But if you want others tool, let's give them to you :
-I've never seen such a low activity on the PESTF channel. Did everyone leave the chan when DR released ? Usually you could make an ISE is less than 10m (find a team and complete it), I spent 20-30m to do an ISA the last time (EU prime time), and announcements are scarce.
-Queues are empty. Except for CE (hurray)
-The sheer amount of giveaway and popular event when DR was released. Sometimes several at the same moment. Something we never saw. Usually those events are a good way to make people talk about the game, and log in, you absolutely don't need them (or that much) when you release new content. Especially when the players are supposedly playing this new content, not your event.
-The rather toxic forums, and even outside of the forum post (STO news on various game website for example). While it may (or not) be attributed to a whining minority or whatever you call them, there might be some reason for all of that, don't you think ?
-So many people in Tau Dewa when the game was released. If DR was that great, most players would have been there, while a minority would have been "exploiting" the old content for some gain. But it seems it was quite the opposite, as we had a lot more Tau Dewa instance than the combined 2 DQ sectors. So much that the devs had to close the entire sector in emergency.
I'll add those giveaway and events are clearly seen on the steam chart. Another proof that steamchart is not so bad when it comes to see trends.
They accused us of "exploiting" Tau Dewa sector patrols. Careful, now. The obvious is right there to be tripped over in your haste. I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself.
I know memories are short, but...
1. Star Trek Online gained a whole new sector plus episodes. It's growing obviously.
2. I see Sheshar Dreadnought everywhere, they must have sold thousands. With that much gambling income (~100 R&D Packs each) for the most expensive ship in-game, it's obviously healthy.
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