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Stop Blaming the DPSers

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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Where is the "I think" "In my opinion" or "please?" Just look at the tone. It is an edict from on high from lord dps. The plebians and peasant scum had better obey.

    Sure, 75% of the problem is the devs trying to prevent dilithium and materials gain to force payments.
    But they have an inflated sense of the prevalence of these dps monsters. Otherwise an easy solution would be to cap at 20,000 or 30,000. Plenty of games cap stats. It's not that shocking.

    It's also been made clear that some of the development team is annoyed and trolled with people steamrolling the content. These endless streams of videos only irritate them further.

    We show them whats wrong with the game. And this is wrong? Its really wrong to do that by doing whatever the game allows without exploiting or cheating?

    Seems like you just want to vent your frustration and jealously on innocent players.

    Have you done exit interviews with those employees...that they're upset with the DPS crowd rolling through the content vs. say that they're upset with having to design content and gear for people that would be challenged watching a Star Trek screensaver?

    Nice one^^
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    When I joined STO in 2012, the top DPS you would truly be amazed to see was 8k. That was truly amazing. I did 5k in my tank/healer, decided that was good enough and went with it.

    Then powercreep after powercreep hit. Fleet holdings. More duty officers. The Reputation system. Revamped R&D.

    I believe the top DPS now rests at what, 160k?

    There simply cannot be blaim thrown to players for jumping in on the power creep and getting the new passives, gear, doffs, everything they need to further increase their DPS.


    However, some of the DPS guys take it too far. From what I've heard concerning the DPS channels (heard, I never upgraded beyond my 5k DPS on my main. I do 8k on an alt, and are happy with that), they removed 20k DPS with the statement that they want to FORCE players to improve. So not all of the top DPS players are completely innocent in the increase of hit points. Note that most DPS'ers arent this arrogant, and mostly very friendly and helpful people. Just not always.
  • frakrfrakr Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    rahmkota19 wrote: »
    From what I've heard concerning the DPS channels [] they removed 20k DPS with the statement that they want to FORCE players to improve.

    Actually, 20k has been removed due to the fact that 30k (post-DR) is the new 20k (pre-DR).

    The DPS channel guys do need to administrate their channels, too - and given the powercreep ... erm ... general DPS increase that came with DR, this was a perfectly understandable move.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Someone has to be blamed, and it can't be the PvPers, they never get anything nice.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    No one is to blame, it's a vicious circle.

    You can't blame a player for anything, at the end of the day they still play within the limits and rules Cryptic have put into place. This isn't the Matrix, these rules can't be bent or broken. It's hard code.

    As for words like exploit, overpowered or broken? Again it's Cryptic. They overlook the details and players take advantage of it.

    The problem is Cryptic don't have a clue how to develop the game further beyond just piling more of the same. Instead of totally different ships or weaponry with matching counter content to explore a fully new play style - it's just what we have now, only bigger and better to entice people to upgrade or purchase.
  • hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The funniest thing about the whole DPS situation to me, is Geko. He openly admitted in a podcast that he has no idea how they do what they do.

    The lead designer, been a dev for STO since day one, and he can't figure out how a group of players plays his own systems.

    It explains so much of the mess things have become.
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    deokkent wrote: »
    If I cared about high DPS numbers and I had underlings under my care and they followed my every word like it's an elixir of immortality, I would force them to improve their game as well so that I don't have to spend more time than I need to in the queues. Seriously, the only thing that matters in STFs anymore is the reward, not the journey to get it. Again that wouldn't be my fault, this is how the game was designed. After 1000th ISE instance, no one in their right mind would still feel excited as they did on their first infected conduit elite.

    And that is the real issue around here actually. Both parts of the developers and parts of the players forget the one thing they should never forget.

    Its. A. Game.

    When somebody asks me to join in Infected, I don't do it for the rewards. I don't do it completely because I want to help them. I do it because I like to play Infected. I think its fun, which is why I do it. I hate Argala, which is why I only jump in there for the patrol mission.

    Everybody who sees this as a job, a requirement, an obligation, should power down their computer immediately and stop playing STO for a month. If they want to return afterwards, they will do so because they like to play it. And will distribute their ingame playstyle accordingly.
    frakr wrote: »
    Actually, 20k has been removed due to the fact that 30k (post-DR) is the new 20k (pre-DR).

    The DPS channel guys do need to administrate their channels, too - and given the powercreep ... erm ... general DPS increase that came with DR, this was a perfectly understandable move.

    Still, many 20k folks are upset. Majorly upset about this. Why not simply keep the channel, is one I heard a lot lately. Even with the administration... why not give that channel which they obviously did not care about to other players? You cannot switch owner, but you can switch admin. Or is there a kingdom of the DPS channel guys that forbids anybody from entering the management team?
  • frakrfrakr Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    coupaholic wrote: »

    As for words like exploit, overpowered or broken? Again it's Cryptic. They overlook the details and players take advantage of it.

    As far as powerlevelling in TD went, they have been made aware of the possible "exploit" by tribble testers and blatantly chose to ignore the matter.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Have you done exit interviews with those employees...that they're upset with the DPS crowd rolling through the content vs. say that they're upset with having to design content and gear for people that would be challenged watching a Star Trek screensaver?

    This has been discussed on here ad nauseam. And no I don't know what interviews, comments, or podcasts the statements are from.

    I don't personally care about the increased difficulty. I do very well. However, many do not, which hurts the game and will kill it - maybe as early as this spring.

    This game before DR was for Trekkies. Now it is for gamers. You won. Congrats. How about having some decency and stop rubbing salt. No? Well then by all means keep those wonderful videos and these wonderful threads coming. Look at meeee look at meeeee look at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!1
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • frakrfrakr Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    rahmkota19 wrote: »
    Still, many 20k folks are upset. Majorly upset about this. Why not simply keep the channel, is one I heard a lot lately.

    Well, a year ago they ditched the old 5k/11k system and there was also a lot of butthurt going around. The steady powercreep has to be adressed somehow, doesn't it?
  • frakrfrakr Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This game before DR was for Trekkies.

    Yeah right ...

    STO (with the exception of maybe the foundry) never ever was a game for Trekkers ... every single action in the game contradicts everything that Gene Roddenberry had in mind.

    STO is a Trek-themed MMO. And lkike in every other MMO, the object is to kill stuff as quickly and effectively as possible. No more, no less.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't spend every waking minute trying to figure out how to squeeze just one more Damage Point out of my current loadout. I have a life and a family and responsibilities which are far more important than some online game. STO is not the centerpiece of my existence. Nor should it be anyone else's.

    I was around when people would dogpile onto any thread which blamed the PvP players for every little thing which went wrong with STO. Frankly, I thought it was incredibly stupid to do so. People to whom PvP was important just wanted the same thing out of STO I do:

    A fun game experience with their online friends which is Star Trek based.

    One thing I generally do not see the PvP players do, despite the raw deal they've gotten, is post here regularly about how special they are and how TRIBBLE everyone else is. If you want to try for 200K DPS, I am happy for you. It is how you roll and while you are trying for this you are having a fun game experience with your online friends which is Star Trek based. But to publicly denigrate the majority of the playerbase, both here and ingame, while thumping one's chest loudly to prove, "I am a Real Man!", is gauche and ill mannered.

    Makes one look foolish as well. Along with a few other words which Terms of Service specifically do not allow me to use.

    I play this game for my entertainment. Not yours. It is a relaxing way to kill a few hours and when I am done with it, I return to the adult world where having a high DPS number in a not very good online game matters not at all. My co workers would laugh themselves silly at someone boldly proclaiming they hit 100k in an STF last night. This might be the fastest route to earning the Steve Urkel Lifetime Achievement Award at the shop. And they would never ever let up or let someone live it down, either. Truckers can be very ruthlessly cruel most days.

    Unlike when I first started playing STO, there are now plenty of things to do which do not require one to become a DPS monster. And I remember failing the pre DR Khitomer once because a person who was hooked on the DPS drug refused to shoot at Probes so his DPS did not drop.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This has been discussed on here ad nauseam. And no I don't know what interviews, comments, or podcasts the statements are from.

    I don't personally care about the increased difficulty. I do very well. However, many do not, which hurts the game and will kill it - maybe as early as this spring.

    This game before DR was for Trekkies. Now it is for gamers. You won. Congrats. How about having some decency and stop rubbing salt. No? Well then by all means keep those wonderful videos and these wonderful threads coming. Look at meeee look at meeeee look at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!1

    I'm not even sure where to begin with a reply to this. Oh, I've typed a few things out and deleted them...wouldn't have been right. So I'm sitting here trying to think of how to reply to this. Think I'll go grab a smoke first...

    ...yeah, I'm just not sure what to say.

    I don't have such a pathetic fragile ego that somebody's success is going to make me have such a tissyfit. I know that I'm pretty far down on the foodchain, and I'm okay with that. There's all sorts of room for improvement, which in turn gives me something to work on from time to time. So those DPS folks blowing the TRIBBLE out of stuff at 30, 40, 60, 80, 100, 165k...doesn't have me running for a pair of the girlfriend's panties so I can bunch them up and head for the forums to cry about it.

    It's a "oh, that's pretty damn cool" - "heh, well there's plenty of room left for me to keep going until I get there" - "now that's a group of folks working together instead of each off chasing their personal butterflies" - "I wonder if they can help me get more out of what I'm trying to do here?"...and all the rest.

    "rubbing salt"...? WTF is that?

    Frankly, saying that the game before DR was for Trekkies and now it's not is damn insulting to Trekkie. Being a Trekkie doesn't mean you're some selfish and entitled spoiled brat.

    Lol, imagine how Star Trek would have been if your so-called "Trekkies" were at the helm, eh?

    Captain Kirk: What do you mean five years? That's a long time. Can't we just go around the planet a few times?

    Bones: Damn it, Jim...I'm tired of this grind of always having to take care of the crew.

    Scotty: We could go faster, Captain, but that switch is on the other side of the room.

    Spock: In the middle of the earth in the land of the Shire lives a brave little hobbit whom we all admire.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    skollulfr wrote: »
    bull****.
    the game before dr was just lowest common denominator due to truely **** mechanics.

    it was an MS paperclip help solution to "i see you are making an rpg", and a trek skin slapped over it.

    it couldnt have more spike damage than the thinnest skinned ships, so it never challenged teh tank classes
    it couldnt require more dps than the lowest dps tank, so it never challenged teh dps classes
    and it couldnt have more sustained dps than the least heal capable, so never challenged the healers.

    thats not "for trekkers", thats just "insipid".

    now they act like they can throw dps capability at it without fixing the mechanics, and boom, game comes apart at the seams.

    Ok, I don't know what most of this means exactly. I assume you're saying it was too easy/casual before? That's what I was getting at. And now it requires moderate dps to accomplish what you did before.

    Unfortunately the vast percentage of the players are under 5000 and they aren't going to get much better.

    For example, Alice has level 12 equipment and does 3000 dps. If Alice upgrades to 14 now she will do 5000 dps.

    Bob does 33,000 dps with his level 12 scimitar. If he upgrades now he will do 37000.

    Alice can not accomplish the new missions except for stories. Eventually Alice will quit.

    Alice outnumbers Bob 10 to 1. Enjoy your ghost town.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    frakr wrote: »

    STO is a Trek-themed MMO. And lkike in every other MMO, the object is to kill stuff as quickly and effectively as possible. No more, no less.

    and you want me not to blame the mindless players , i wonder how many times he played tank or healer in a REAL MMO.
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    rahmkota19 wrote: »
    And that is the real issue around here actually. Both parts of the developers and parts of the players forget the one thing they should never forget.

    Its. A. Game.

    When somebody asks me to join in Infected, I don't do it for the rewards. I don't do it completely because I want to help them. I do it because I like to play Infected. I think its fun, which is why I do it. I hate Argala, which is why I only jump in there for the patrol mission.

    Everybody who sees this as a job, a requirement, an obligation, should power down their computer immediately and stop playing STO for a month. If they want to return afterwards, they will do so because they like to play it. And will distribute their ingame playstyle accordingly.



    Still, many 20k folks are upset. Majorly upset about this. Why not simply keep the channel, is one I heard a lot lately. Even with the administration... why not give that channel which they obviously did not care about to other players? You cannot switch owner, but you can switch admin. Or is there a kingdom of the DPS channel guys that forbids anybody from entering the management team?

    Which is why I'm going to stop doing stf's altogether. The rewards are pathetic.
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Simple logic would dictate that:

    1. One should not make changes based upon the top 1% of results.

    2. One should not make changes based upon the bottom 1% of results.

    If people are blaming the top1% for anything that nerfs damage, does that mean they should also blame the bottom 1% for the ridiculous power creep?

    If the developers balanced around these two extremes, they would be incompetent, and/or flagrantly stupid. Simple as that.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    kerygan wrote: »
    and you want me not to blame the mindless players , i wonder how many times he played tank or healer in a REAL MMO.

    Speaking of mindless...in regard to tank, heals, and DPS...over in those real MMOs.

    So you've got this epic boss - this mastermind who is a thread to the known world, that's raised massive armies, and oh woe is us - we're all doomed unless we defeat this villain!

    So this dire threat...

    Focuses on the target it's least likely to kill, while ignoring the target that's keeping that target alive, and while ignoring the targets that are actually killing it.

    Yet people think that MMO Trinity mindless nonsense is good? No, it's a pathetic fail system that coddles casual players...it's mindless.
  • frakrfrakr Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    kerygan wrote: »
    and you want me not to blame the mindless players , i wonder how many times he played tank or healer in a REAL MMO.

    So in a REAL MMO, the quests are not about to kill Bosses as fast and efficient as possible? Why? Because you have Healers/Necromancers/Wizards and Tanks in supporting roles for the Damage Dealers (who - after all - deliver damage per second)?

    Yeah, it is indeed pretty mindless to look at REAL MMO's that way.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I blame the Bajoran player base
    GwaoHAD.png
  • frakrfrakr Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Blame Canada ... it's a real time saver
  • sanasitsanasit Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Speaking of mindless...in regard to tank, heals, and DPS...over in those real MMOs.

    So you've got this epic boss - this mastermind who is a thread to the known world, that's raised massive armies, and oh woe is us - we're all doomed unless we defeat this villain!

    So this dire threat...

    Focuses on the target it's least likely to kill, while ignoring the target that's keeping that target alive, and while ignoring the targets that are actually killing it.

    Yet people think that MMO Trinity mindless nonsense is good? No, it's a pathetic fail system that coddles casual players...it's mindless.

    After reading this there were a realm of possible replies but instead of wading through all that drek why don't we just do this:

    1. Dump all the other ship classes from the game.
    2. Hell, dump all the other races and characteristics as well, I mean if they don't allow me to generate the big numbers why use 'em?
    3. Meh, get rid of the story too. I mean it is the repetitive "X boss is going to do X if we don't kill it."
    4. We still need some flash tho, so lets get that nice colored line that we "fire" and when it hits the boss we see some nice big numbers appear!
    5. Still need to have a nice reward tho so that we can make nicer colored lines and get even bigger numbers when we hit!
    6. After killing X boss with our colored lines and big numbers, push back from the keyboard and congratulate ourselves!

    Wow, this idea is so full of win!

    Apologies up front tho as I couldn't think of an intelligent rebuttal to the whole "coddling casual" thing, (that horse has been beaten, buried, dug-up, beaten some more, reburied etc..), didn't even want to bother with it. At any rate even after my time away it seems that this is still what the game has devolved into.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    skollulfr wrote: »
    nothing about this game was 'casual' at any time. slapping that term on the game is nothing more than snotty elitism.
    what it was, was just badly done and restricted to the lowest common denominator.

    It was very casual. A casual player could complete all content. As a result it was a healthy game. Now it is dying.

    How is calling the game prior to DR "snotty elitism?" Is that your term of the day? I have a couple terms too: nonsensical, and nonsequitur.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    frakr wrote: »
    So in a REAL MMO, the quests are not about to kill Bosses as fast and efficient as possible? Why? Because you have Healers/Necromancers/Wizards and Tanks in supporting roles for the Damage Dealers (who - after all - deliver damage per second)?

    Yeah, it is indeed pretty mindless to look at REAL MMO's that way.

    hmm yes mindless since in those real mmos the dpser couldn't even land a blow w/o a tank to agro and w/o a healer , this classes are useless in sto , why would i play eng. or sci ? put your TRIBBLE in a escort and shoot w/e you see . In other real games you can't even think at a instace w/o a healer. At first i think sto was meant to be ballanced otherwise why would they add support classes? If i want to shoot ill play a shooter game. In other games dpsers respect support classes , they dont bash them with : your dps sux , go play tetrix. And if they get healed its not even a „thanx” or „gj”. Here is the mindless player .
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This thread is becoming a Super Smash Bros thread
    GwaoHAD.png
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