There's no time limits. There's no failure. They never have to face, never have to know what they're doing, how they might compare to others or what might actually be needed for any sort of group content.
The guy flying around slaughtering things in a mission...he's balls to the walls full of badassery. He's rocking and rolling...he's taking names and sending wreaths for the funerals. He's having a blast!
He hits up that queue, it gets pointed out to him that he's doing 1k DPS while everybody else is doing 15-20k or more...
...well, yeah - his outlook changes.
What am I doing wrong? Sometimes my attacks show double digit, others 1k and above. So why the difference if I'm firing the same weapons?
New Lunar Republic
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
What am I doing wrong? Sometimes my attacks show double digit, others 1k and above. So why the difference if I'm firing the same weapons?
Same weapon...
...looking at hull hits or shield hits?
...same range to the target?
...same buffs in play?
......buffs that you're using?
......buffs the target is using?
......buffs others have provided?
...same debuffs in play?
......debuffs that you've applied?
......debuffs that others have applied?
......debuffs that are affecting you?
...normal hit or critical hit?
...different weapon power between the hits?
...how much health did the target have left?
...actually the same weapon or another similar weapon that might have different mods or be of a different Mark/Rarity?
There's no time limits. There's no failure. They never have to face, never have to know what they're doing, how they might compare to others or what might actually be needed for any sort of group content.
The guy flying around slaughtering things in a mission...he's balls to the walls full of badassery. He's rocking and rolling...he's taking names and sending wreaths for the funerals. He's having a blast!
He hits up that queue, it gets pointed out to him that he's doing 1k DPS while everybody else is doing 15-20k or more...
...well, yeah - his outlook changes.
I LOL'd.
But, to be fair, someone doing 1k DPS probably isn't "slaughtering" things in any section of the game. They're the ones in zone chat asking anyone and everyone for help, because the mission is "too hard."
But, to be fair, someone doing 1k DPS probably isn't "slaughtering" things in any section of the game. They're the ones in zone chat asking anyone and everyone for help, because the mission is "too hard."
I was actually trying to be serious there...Cryptic simply doesn't give any feedback to the player, so unless they get feedback elsewhere - they might complain something takes too long believing it to be the content itself rather than what they're doing - without some external feedback, they're just going to be left to it being what it is and thinking whatever they think about it.
It's along the lines of some of the videos the DPS guys do. Folks that were hitting up their 5 minute ISEs, thinking they're rocking it cause the optional fails 15 minutes after the first engagement is done...they just nailed it in 5 minutes. Woot! Woot! Right? Then they see the ~1 minute video...outlook changes again.
Heck, like in PvP...somebody might bounce around Ker'rat, hit up some CnH, maybe even the odd Arena - then they run into a premade...outlook changes.
In most of the cases, imho, it's not about trying to show how bad anybody is and it's not always about fluffing egos...but when it runs into that fragile ego - boom!
I don't blame the dpsers, they are merely spending the money on gold level gear, and using the mechanics that the devs have set.
I do see APB getting a huge nerf in the near future, though. Something along the lines of it not stacking on targets.
They could also attack FAW like they say they want too, but I doubt that would happen.
The skill itself isn't the problem, just a combination of that and other debuffs, like the above APB.
Basically anything that lowers the resistance to targets, which allows the huge dps numbers that are seen in these video's...
With all the upgrades from Delta Rising, Cryptic could've let all the HP on NPCs untouched and simply add two tactical teams on each one of them. Shield redistrbution and 66% uptime removal of all Attack Pattern Beta stacks would've been more than enough.
You can't blame the DPSers. Min/Maxers are in every game, and they do what they do, try the break the game using mechanics that the devs provided, in which they do here in STO. It happens in every MMO out there, devs know it's going to happen, most games plan on it happening, and then balance based around the majority of the players involved.
This game isn't balanced. At all. Everyone knows the game is only about DPS. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Want to play a sci/cruiser tank. You're worthless. Healer. Worthless. Science or Engineer Captain. Pretty much worthless in space. Fly anything that doesn't use a certain select skill set. Worthless. Use any skill except a few very narrow select sets. Worthless.
While other games tend to have min/maxers that will max out there DPS... in most MMOs out there min/maxers understand that there is a need for something other then pure DPS. You need tanks, you need healing, you may even need CC (depending on the game). So you can have people whose play style is tank or support min/max for that and enjoy the game. In STO if your playstyle is anything.. ANYTHING... other then DPS.. Cryptic doesn't want you, doesn't care to help you out, and your worthless to the community at large in the elite setting.
So f&*k you if you don't like to pew-pew DPS and your playstyle is about anything... anything... other then pew-pew dps. Cryptic doesn't want you playing their game, and won't even bother to cater to you or even pretend to balance the game so you can enjoy it.
Once players understand this and fully accept this simple undeniable fact, that it's the game the devs want... people won't blame the people whose play style fits this style.
Once players understand this and fully accept this simple undeniable fact, that it's the game the devs want... people won't blame the people whose play style fits this style.
Except it's pretty easy to point out how that it's not only undeniable but wrong...
Perhaps this gets into chicken and egg, but I saw the second leading more to the first than the first leading to the second.
I think a lot of the complaints simply come down to different folks want different things. So when Cryptic does something that one group was asking for...then the group that didn't want that comes forth to complain about it. Which turns into folks (b) complaining at Cryptic for giving folks (a) what they wanted...without folks (b) recognizing the part folks (a) played in all of that.
After the F2P conversion...all those discussions up to S7...from S7 through LoR...after LoR.
Cryptic's been giving folks (a) what they're asking for...and it's pissing folks (b) off.
Cryptic gave folks (a) what they wanted...so folks (b) are pissed off about it.
I find it funny that the people that complain loudest about "DPSers" are usually the ones who have no understanding about how anything in the game actually works. The people that get high DPS aren't the cause of any of your problems with the game. You have problems with the game because the game is very bad at explaining how anything works and single player is garbage at forcing players to do anything except use whatever loot drop trash they find that looks cool to them. So when they do actually get into a situation that requires team work, like a PvE queue, they not only have no idea what to do, but they're woefully under-equipped to deal with anything. They don't know where to place their anger and frustration, because surely the game couldn't have lead them astray, after all, why would it give you things that aren't good to use? Why wouldn't it explain that it's better to use all the same energy type weapons because you can stack the damage bonuses of your tactical consoles.
Now observant players realize this fairly quickly, and they get better. Then the next step is realizing that for 99% of content, going with beams over cannons and especially torpedoes allows you to keep up your damage almost constantly and consistently. Then maybe you notice something like power levels, because even though the game shows you four different preset options, it never comes right out and says, "Hey btw, you actually do more damage the higher you keep your weapon energy levels." I mean, it makes sense once you actually think about it, but until you have that lightbulb moment, you'd probably just run around with balanced power levels because you'd think something like balance must be good, like you're a Deferi or something. Finally, if you're really sharp, you might put together which energy types work better than others, and what consoles and equipment work well and what ones are overpriced garbage.
No matter how much the DPS crowd makes you feel inadequate about your own playing ability or lack thereof, the blame resides squarely in two places: the people who designed the system in the first place, and you. Do you get mad in Call of Duty or Battlefield when a higher level player has better weapons, especially if they are ones that take skill to unlock and not just slogging through long enough to level up? Just because they're FPS games and this is an MMO doesn't mean the premise isn't the same. You do have options you know. You can get better, you can accept that areas of the game is moving beyond what you are capable of and stick to what you can do, or you can just stop playing. Whether or not you are happy with your playing ability is totally on you. If you suck, stop sucking or stop playing. Nobody needs Mk 14 epic gear to be competitive. Does it help if your piloting ability is just pants on head TRIBBLE bad? To a point, yes. If people are complaining that you're not helping in public queues, either stop queueing up in public, or figure out what you need to do to actually help.
Look, like any game, some gear and weapons and modifiers and abilities are always going to work better than others. If they didn't then what would it matter? If you could just use whatever old random TRIBBLE you wanted and it didn't make a difference, nobody would bother crafting or upgrading or using debuffs or anything. We'd all just pound stuff until it eventually died. If that was what STO was like, it would suck and you would all hate it. But yet, some of you want to push that a little onto a game that's clearly not set up for that at all. If you want to blame people for power creep, blame the vast majority that are struggling at less than 5k DPS. Because if you're doing better than that, you don't need a boost to do better. The damage boost to Mk 13 and 14 weapons isn't for the top DPSers, it's to entice all the little people who spend 6 months to grind enough dil for a ship or upgrades or whatever to spend cold hard cash to be able to keep up. Which as a result Cryptic has now put themselves in a position where they need to make the game harder to get people to spend more money, but if they make it too hard all the casuals will just quit, but if they don't make it hard enough nobody will spend money. Hence why you had a major spike in difficulty when DR dropped followed by a major nerf two weeks later. End result being, they added all these new skills and powers that allow people to do more damage than ever before when enemies are almost as easy to kill as they were 3 months ago. Combine that with a large percentage of your player base likely being at Level 50 for years, possibly stacking up energy credits and dilithium because once they have builds they like, what do they have to spend it on, and you get people that are starting to upgrade but still aren't really spending money. So basically at this point, Cryptic probably doesn't have a good idea what to do, so the power will just keep on a-creepin and they'll keep trying to get people to spend more money.
TL;DR- Cryptic caused the disease, getting better at how the game actually works is the cure.
Again, your definition of a real game involves one of the most mentally challenged systems in existence. The Tank, the Heals, and the DPS...because the NPCs are so stupid as to ignore the Heals keeping the Tank alive and the DPS killing them.
It's a system for the Tank to hold all sorts of fake aggro and take damage because the four other idiots aren't capable of taking damage. It's a system for the Heals to keep everybody else alive because the four other idiots aren't capable of doing that. It's a system for the DPS to kill everything because the four other idiots couldn't pop a zit.
If that's your definition of a real game...I've got some beachfront property on the moon that I can sell you for next to nothing...it's the real deal!
That MMO Trinity garbage is the worst system ever designed. Want a real game? Hit up a tabletop RPG which that MMO Trinity garbage was based on...where the heavily armored guy with the health pool tanked not by telling your mama jokes, but actually had to position himself between the party and the NPCs. Where the guy that might have been tossing heals wasn't just spamming them, because the other folks in the party weren't generally the idiots you see in your real game and they just weren't available to spam like that. Where the folks focusing on damage had to watch out for all sorts of things instead of having just to make sure they weren't standing in the fire.
STO's closer to a real game in that sense, than any of the mindless MMO Trinity games out there. No doubt Cryptic totally screwed up the content, but they've got the premise behind the characters right.
You may favor a game full of all the elitist douchebag Tanks and Healers that treat the DPS as dime a dozen garbage, but that doesn't make it a real game...well, a real stupid game perhaps.
If Cryptic were to reduce the number of mobs involved, so instead of killing 100 things you had to fight 5 to 10...then they'd start to have the content that would match up to the potential builds for characters. It wouldn't require this, that, and the rest - but there would be far more room for this, that, and the rest rather than it just being DPS.
There's all sorts of things Cryptic could do to address their content issues, but they won't...because this game is designed and developed for puppies playing on iPads - but as the forums are ripe with the complaints, some folks haven't quite gotten that good yet. Yes, STO is a mindless DPSfest for the most part...
...but that's a Hell of a lot better than the mindless MMO Trinity some of the games have gone with over the years. There's a reason that the MMO Trinity appeals to the masses...the masses aren't very good.
I have a novel idea. How about let people play how they want to play and if you don't like them playing that way, don't play with them? Make a private team and stay away from the general population. You don't want a crappy science captain on your team? Don't invite one. Don't want a flying fortress on your team? Don't invite one. Also, don't pug. Anything. Ever.
You don't need 25k DPS each to finish ISA. You also don't need a premade team. You do need that and more to finish ISA with a record time. Other missions maybe but not ISA, the jewel of measurements. You can pull it off with far less.
I find it funny that the people that complain loudest about "DPSers" are usually the ones who have no understanding about how anything in the game actually works.
I think the people who are loudest about hating "DPSers" don't just know nothing of the game mechanics, but they refuse to learn, and don't think anyone should know these things.
There are also those who just somehow take it personally that there are those doing better at STFs then them, which is silly.
Then, there are the "Don't tell me how to play" people- who are the most curious to me. They want "DPSers" to stop playing how they want to play. Then, complain because their T3 rainbow silly ship gets insulted in public queues. Um, huh?
I have a novel idea. How about let people play how they want to play and if you don't like them playing that way, don't play with them? Make a private team and stay away from the general population. You don't want a crappy science captain on your team? Don't invite one. Don't want a flying fortress on your team? Don't invite one. Also, don't pug. Anything. Ever.
You don't need 25k DPS each to finish ISA. You also don't need a premade team. You do need that and more to finish ISA with a record time. Other missions maybe but not ISA, the jewel of measurements. You can pull it off with far less.
If the game is all about DPS, why would people excelling at DPS be the ones to stay out of public queues?
Seriously, think of how ridiculous that sounds.
And, a science ship doesn't automatically suck and run LOLfail 3k DPS. Mine don't.
Let people play what they want, as long as it's not a detriment to the team, how bout?
Also, virusdancer has specifically stated that he doesn't do 25k DPS. There's a difference between "ROFLstomp record run" and "incompetent failure."
If the game is all about DPS, why would people excelling at DPS be the ones to stay out of public queues?
Seriously, think of how ridiculous that sounds.
And, a science ship doesn't automatically suck and run LOLfail 3k DPS. Mine don't.
Let people play what they want, as long as it's not a detriment to the team, how bout?
Also, virusdancer has specifically stated that he doesn't do 25k DPS. There's a difference between "ROFLstomp record run" and "incompetent failure."
Because there are no locks on the doors to a public queue. You want locks, make your own house. It's not ridiculous. If you don't want on a team that has the possibility of a "Scrub," don't join a pug. That's not hard to understand. But if you do join a pug and you get a "scrub," leave the guy alone. If you go premade, your world will be better fit to your needs.
I know a science ship doesn't automatically suck but if you listen to most posts about this topic, it's the captain they are on about. It's not the ship. APA in a science ship works are well as APA in anything else. Go Down Fighting works as well in a science ship as it does anything else.
I'm saying if you don't want to deal with a scrub, stay away from the places they go. If you insist on going there, suck it up and deal with it but leave the guy alone.
Because there are no locks on the doors to a public queue. You want locks, make your own house. It's not ridiculous. If you don't want on a team that has the possibility of a "Scrub," don't join a pug. That's not hard to understand. But if you do join a pug and you get a "scrub," leave the guy alone. If you go premade, your world will be better fit to your needs.
I know a science ship doesn't automatically suck but if you listen to most posts about this topic, it's the captain they are on about. It's not the ship. APA in a science ship works are well as APA in anything else. Go Down Fighting works as well in a science ship as it does anything else.
I'm saying if you don't want to deal with a scrub, stay away from the places they go. If you insist on going there, suck it up and deal with it but leave the guy alone.
People are "making their own house." Look how empty the queues are. There are always runs going on in the DPS channels, though.
If someone doesn't want to improve to an advanced level, they should understand that they don't belong in Advanced queues. Either they are leeching, or trolling.
Science captains don't run LOL 3k DPS fail boats, either. Neither of mine do. No Attack Pattern Alpha there. Or Go Down Fighting. 12-18k DPS, with minimal upgrades and few rep items. A Breen set on a (not even T5U) Varanus for one of them, FFS.
How about the people who suck at the game, don't stick their heads in the sand, and pretend they are great? That would make infinitely more sense to me. Not "the good people should hide in private queues."
I agree with everything said above, pretty much. Except one thing:
I think the people who are loudest about hating "DPSers" don't just know nothing of the game mechanics, but they refuse to learn, and don't think anyone should know these things.
There are also those who just somehow take it personally that there are those doing better at STFs then them, which is silly.
Then, there are the "Don't tell me how to play" people- who are the most curious to me. They want "DPSers" to stop playing how they want to play. Then, complain because their T3 rainbow silly ship gets insulted in public queues. Um, huh?
I agree with all of this, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you expanded upon my original statement.
My gripe is, I shouldn't HAVE to tell anyone how to play, because human nature and the desire to win being what it is, people should naturally gravitate to what will work better.
The only time I ever see anyone get outright hostile is when they're part of the group whose argument is the quintessential "muh playstyle". They want things to work the way they think they should work, with no regard to how the rules of the game actually are.
For example, say you like football, maybe you think that any player should be able to make a forward pass from anywhere on the field, because that would somehow make the game better. For the sake of this argument whether it would or wouldn't is immaterial. You just want. Now, the rules clearly state all the ways that's not allowed. Well, if you try to play the game that way, you're going to be penalized. So, think of fighting against the game mechanics as a penalty. Now what kind of person would continuously, every time they play, commit penalties? In football, if a player were to do that on their team, they'd be benched before you know it. Well, a PvE queue is a team just the same. It's not 5 people who all happen to be in the same area and all have the same individual goals. They have team goals that if they don't work together on, they'll fail. The problem with STO is, very little about fighting against the basic underlying rules of the game will actually stop you from playing the game. It make make it take longer, and it may require much more effort, but you'll more or less get through eventually. The only exceptions to this are the pass/fail and timegate objectives. If you can't satisfy those with your team, you all lose. All your efforts were wasted. And I've said this before, how selfish of a person does someone have to be to join up with a group and not expect to pull their own weight. And no, pulling your own weight does not just mean showing up. Some of the ships I've seen in PUGs, I'd almost rather have them not be there and just be shorthanded.
People are "making their own house." Look how empty the queues are. There are always runs going on in the DPS channels, though.
If someone doesn't want to improve to an advanced level, they should understand that they don't belong in Advanced queues. Either they are leeching, or trolling.
Science captains don't run LOL 3k DPS fail boats, either. Neither of mine do. No Attack Pattern Alpha there. Or Go Down Fighting. 12-18k DPS, with minimal upgrades and few rep items. A Breen set on a (not even T5U) Varanus for one of them, FFS.
How about the people who suck at the game, don't stick their heads in the sand, and pretend they are great? That would make infinitely more sense to me. Not "the good people should hide in private queues."
How about not kicking sand in their faces while they are down there? Seriously, what's not to get? If you don't want to see a bum, don't go into alleys where they live. If someone doesn't want to play with bums, they should understand playing in the bum alley is where bums are playing.
It's not about your ship. It's about their ship. It's not about your skills. It's about their skills. It about public queues where anyone can join. Instead of running around with the bum banish beams blazing, just leave them to their game and go play yours somewhere they aren't. Entitlement is earned with the wallet, not the build. They have as much right to fail as you do to excel. They paid for it.
The universe is full of "me" and only one of those is your personal self. The sooner everyone on both sides of the fence figure that out, the sooner the grass gets greener on both sides. You complain they foist their suckage on you. They complain you force their eliteness on them. If you don't play together, no one sees the other to be foisted upon.
How about not kicking sand in their faces while they are down there? Seriously, what's not to get? If you don't want to see a bum, don't go into alleys where they live. If someone doesn't want to play with bums, they should understand playing in the bum alley is where bums are playing.
It's not about your ship. It's about their ship. It's not about your skills. It's about their skills. It about public queues where anyone can join. Instead of running around with the bum banish beams blazing, just leave them to their game and go play yours somewhere they aren't. Entitlement is earned with the wallet, not the build. They have as much right to fail as you do to excel. They paid for it.
The universe is full of "me" and only one of those is your personal self. The sooner everyone on both sides of the fence figure that out, the sooner the grass gets greener on both sides. You complain they foist their suckage on you. They complain you force their eliteness on them. If you don't play together, no one sees the other to be foisted upon.
As long as they finance the game, who cares?
How long will this game last with empty queues that fail constantly? We're already seeing the result from people being sick of the leechers in queues. So- your brilliant solution is to exacerbate the problem?
I don't care what kind of Skittle Scow people run. I don't care if people want to fly backwards instead of forwards for some RP reason. Once someone takes that out of their own little world, and forces it upon the fun of others, then it's their business, too.
It's not eilitism if anyone can do it. I don't even hit 30k. Anyone can do that. Anyone can hit 30k if they want. Or more. These aren't super secret societies we're talking about.
I wouldn't go into something called "Impossible mode" if I thought I couldn't do it, but I guess many don't care if they are leeching off of, or trolling.
Funny thing is, I don't see a whole lot of hating on DPS-ers taking place, really. People generally hate that it's all about the DPS, though; but the two are vastly different from one another.
Borg Disconnected Advanced is annoying and frustrating; but that has nothing to do with DPS, really (just a required level of coordination not usually seen in the PUG). So, I'm not sure what ppl are blaming the DPS-ers for, then.
Ragging on PvP-ers is something I get, as they're generally the most vocal about getting everything nerfed. But what did the DPS-ers ever do?! Other than showing they can do 160k+, they're completely harmless. And they didn't make it more difficult for anyone. In fact, an STF like CSA is easier than ever. Even (a non-bugged spawn of) Korfez is a breeze.
How long will this game last with empty queues that fail constantly? We're already seeing the result from people being sick of the leechers in queues. So- your brilliant solution is to exacerbate the problem?
I don't care what kind of Skittle Scow people run. I don't care if people want to fly backwards instead of forwards for some RP reason. Once someone takes that out of their own little world, and forces it upon the fun of others, then it's their business, too.
It's not eilitism if anyone can do it. I don't even hit 30k. Anyone can do that. Anyone can hit 30k if they want. Or more. These aren't super secret societies we're talking about.
I wouldn't go into something called "Impossible mode" if I thought I couldn't do it, but I guess many don't care if they are leeching off of, or trolling.
See? You have your mind made up as do a couple thousand others on both sides. You step into their little world when you join a random pug and they step into yours. Eliminate the random pug and you eliminate the little world. Complaining about it won't change it but not going into it will. They are not forcing it onto you or me or anyone else. You are placing yourself into their little world by joining the entrance lottery into any one of a thousand of random little worlds. If you know what is behind Random Door X, why go into Random Door X? I'm not saying remove the public queue from the game, remove yourself from the public queue. It's like complaining of stepping in a cow pile while running through a cow pasture. Not going into the pasture at all is the best way to not step into a pile.
Comments
What am I doing wrong? Sometimes my attacks show double digit, others 1k and above. So why the difference if I'm firing the same weapons?
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
Same weapon...
...looking at hull hits or shield hits?
...same range to the target?
...same buffs in play?
......buffs that you're using?
......buffs the target is using?
......buffs others have provided?
...same debuffs in play?
......debuffs that you've applied?
......debuffs that others have applied?
......debuffs that are affecting you?
...normal hit or critical hit?
...different weapon power between the hits?
...how much health did the target have left?
...actually the same weapon or another similar weapon that might have different mods or be of a different Mark/Rarity?
I LOL'd.
But, to be fair, someone doing 1k DPS probably isn't "slaughtering" things in any section of the game.
I was actually trying to be serious there...Cryptic simply doesn't give any feedback to the player, so unless they get feedback elsewhere - they might complain something takes too long believing it to be the content itself rather than what they're doing - without some external feedback, they're just going to be left to it being what it is and thinking whatever they think about it.
It's along the lines of some of the videos the DPS guys do. Folks that were hitting up their 5 minute ISEs, thinking they're rocking it cause the optional fails 15 minutes after the first engagement is done...they just nailed it in 5 minutes. Woot! Woot! Right? Then they see the ~1 minute video...outlook changes again.
Heck, like in PvP...somebody might bounce around Ker'rat, hit up some CnH, maybe even the odd Arena - then they run into a premade...outlook changes.
In most of the cases, imho, it's not about trying to show how bad anybody is and it's not always about fluffing egos...but when it runs into that fragile ego - boom!
Please explain A) why you want the thread deleted and b) why mods should listen to you.
Free Tibet!
http://vimeo.com/47041550
However I find it pretty disgusting that the OP is either
A) trolling
or
or
c) has no concern for the community or the company providing the game.
If you can't see that you don't frequent the forums at all.
Buh bye now and quit stirring up trouble, pissing people off, and providing no answers.
With all the upgrades from Delta Rising, Cryptic could've let all the HP on NPCs untouched and simply add two tactical teams on each one of them. Shield redistrbution and 66% uptime removal of all Attack Pattern Beta stacks would've been more than enough.
Thanks for pointing that out, I've never been to the forums before and didn't see any of that in the original post...
You can't blame the DPSers. Min/Maxers are in every game, and they do what they do, try the break the game using mechanics that the devs provided, in which they do here in STO. It happens in every MMO out there, devs know it's going to happen, most games plan on it happening, and then balance based around the majority of the players involved.
This game isn't balanced. At all. Everyone knows the game is only about DPS. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Want to play a sci/cruiser tank. You're worthless. Healer. Worthless. Science or Engineer Captain. Pretty much worthless in space. Fly anything that doesn't use a certain select skill set. Worthless. Use any skill except a few very narrow select sets. Worthless.
While other games tend to have min/maxers that will max out there DPS... in most MMOs out there min/maxers understand that there is a need for something other then pure DPS. You need tanks, you need healing, you may even need CC (depending on the game). So you can have people whose play style is tank or support min/max for that and enjoy the game. In STO if your playstyle is anything.. ANYTHING... other then DPS.. Cryptic doesn't want you, doesn't care to help you out, and your worthless to the community at large in the elite setting.
So f&*k you if you don't like to pew-pew DPS and your playstyle is about anything... anything... other then pew-pew dps. Cryptic doesn't want you playing their game, and won't even bother to cater to you or even pretend to balance the game so you can enjoy it.
Once players understand this and fully accept this simple undeniable fact, that it's the game the devs want... people won't blame the people whose play style fits this style.
Except it's pretty easy to point out how that it's not only undeniable but wrong...
...like I said in another thread:
Cryptic gave folks (a) what they wanted...so folks (b) are pissed off about it.
Now observant players realize this fairly quickly, and they get better. Then the next step is realizing that for 99% of content, going with beams over cannons and especially torpedoes allows you to keep up your damage almost constantly and consistently. Then maybe you notice something like power levels, because even though the game shows you four different preset options, it never comes right out and says, "Hey btw, you actually do more damage the higher you keep your weapon energy levels." I mean, it makes sense once you actually think about it, but until you have that lightbulb moment, you'd probably just run around with balanced power levels because you'd think something like balance must be good, like you're a Deferi or something. Finally, if you're really sharp, you might put together which energy types work better than others, and what consoles and equipment work well and what ones are overpriced garbage.
No matter how much the DPS crowd makes you feel inadequate about your own playing ability or lack thereof, the blame resides squarely in two places: the people who designed the system in the first place, and you. Do you get mad in Call of Duty or Battlefield when a higher level player has better weapons, especially if they are ones that take skill to unlock and not just slogging through long enough to level up? Just because they're FPS games and this is an MMO doesn't mean the premise isn't the same. You do have options you know. You can get better, you can accept that areas of the game is moving beyond what you are capable of and stick to what you can do, or you can just stop playing. Whether or not you are happy with your playing ability is totally on you. If you suck, stop sucking or stop playing. Nobody needs Mk 14 epic gear to be competitive. Does it help if your piloting ability is just pants on head TRIBBLE bad? To a point, yes. If people are complaining that you're not helping in public queues, either stop queueing up in public, or figure out what you need to do to actually help.
Look, like any game, some gear and weapons and modifiers and abilities are always going to work better than others. If they didn't then what would it matter? If you could just use whatever old random TRIBBLE you wanted and it didn't make a difference, nobody would bother crafting or upgrading or using debuffs or anything. We'd all just pound stuff until it eventually died. If that was what STO was like, it would suck and you would all hate it. But yet, some of you want to push that a little onto a game that's clearly not set up for that at all. If you want to blame people for power creep, blame the vast majority that are struggling at less than 5k DPS. Because if you're doing better than that, you don't need a boost to do better. The damage boost to Mk 13 and 14 weapons isn't for the top DPSers, it's to entice all the little people who spend 6 months to grind enough dil for a ship or upgrades or whatever to spend cold hard cash to be able to keep up. Which as a result Cryptic has now put themselves in a position where they need to make the game harder to get people to spend more money, but if they make it too hard all the casuals will just quit, but if they don't make it hard enough nobody will spend money. Hence why you had a major spike in difficulty when DR dropped followed by a major nerf two weeks later. End result being, they added all these new skills and powers that allow people to do more damage than ever before when enemies are almost as easy to kill as they were 3 months ago. Combine that with a large percentage of your player base likely being at Level 50 for years, possibly stacking up energy credits and dilithium because once they have builds they like, what do they have to spend it on, and you get people that are starting to upgrade but still aren't really spending money. So basically at this point, Cryptic probably doesn't have a good idea what to do, so the power will just keep on a-creepin and they'll keep trying to get people to spend more money.
TL;DR- Cryptic caused the disease, getting better at how the game actually works is the cure.
Vice Admiral of - Starfleet Command -
I have a novel idea. How about let people play how they want to play and if you don't like them playing that way, don't play with them? Make a private team and stay away from the general population. You don't want a crappy science captain on your team? Don't invite one. Don't want a flying fortress on your team? Don't invite one. Also, don't pug. Anything. Ever.
You don't need 25k DPS each to finish ISA. You also don't need a premade team. You do need that and more to finish ISA with a record time. Other missions maybe but not ISA, the jewel of measurements. You can pull it off with far less.
I think the people who are loudest about hating "DPSers" don't just know nothing of the game mechanics, but they refuse to learn, and don't think anyone should know these things.
There are also those who just somehow take it personally that there are those doing better at STFs then them, which is silly.
Then, there are the "Don't tell me how to play" people- who are the most curious to me. They want "DPSers" to stop playing how they want to play. Then, complain because their T3 rainbow silly ship gets insulted in public queues. Um, huh?
If the game is all about DPS, why would people excelling at DPS be the ones to stay out of public queues?
Seriously, think of how ridiculous that sounds.
And, a science ship doesn't automatically suck and run LOLfail 3k DPS. Mine don't.
Let people play what they want, as long as it's not a detriment to the team, how bout?
Also, virusdancer has specifically stated that he doesn't do 25k DPS.
Because there are no locks on the doors to a public queue. You want locks, make your own house. It's not ridiculous. If you don't want on a team that has the possibility of a "Scrub," don't join a pug. That's not hard to understand. But if you do join a pug and you get a "scrub," leave the guy alone. If you go premade, your world will be better fit to your needs.
I know a science ship doesn't automatically suck but if you listen to most posts about this topic, it's the captain they are on about. It's not the ship. APA in a science ship works are well as APA in anything else. Go Down Fighting works as well in a science ship as it does anything else.
I'm saying if you don't want to deal with a scrub, stay away from the places they go. If you insist on going there, suck it up and deal with it but leave the guy alone.
People are "making their own house." Look how empty the queues are. There are always runs going on in the DPS channels, though.
If someone doesn't want to improve to an advanced level, they should understand that they don't belong in Advanced queues. Either they are leeching, or trolling.
Science captains don't run LOL 3k DPS fail boats, either. Neither of mine do. No Attack Pattern Alpha there. Or Go Down Fighting. 12-18k DPS, with minimal upgrades and few rep items. A Breen set on a (not even T5U) Varanus for one of them, FFS.
How about the people who suck at the game, don't stick their heads in the sand, and pretend they are great? That would make infinitely more sense to me. Not "the good people should hide in private queues."
I agree with all of this, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you expanded upon my original statement.
My gripe is, I shouldn't HAVE to tell anyone how to play, because human nature and the desire to win being what it is, people should naturally gravitate to what will work better.
The only time I ever see anyone get outright hostile is when they're part of the group whose argument is the quintessential "muh playstyle". They want things to work the way they think they should work, with no regard to how the rules of the game actually are.
For example, say you like football, maybe you think that any player should be able to make a forward pass from anywhere on the field, because that would somehow make the game better. For the sake of this argument whether it would or wouldn't is immaterial. You just want. Now, the rules clearly state all the ways that's not allowed. Well, if you try to play the game that way, you're going to be penalized. So, think of fighting against the game mechanics as a penalty. Now what kind of person would continuously, every time they play, commit penalties? In football, if a player were to do that on their team, they'd be benched before you know it. Well, a PvE queue is a team just the same. It's not 5 people who all happen to be in the same area and all have the same individual goals. They have team goals that if they don't work together on, they'll fail. The problem with STO is, very little about fighting against the basic underlying rules of the game will actually stop you from playing the game. It make make it take longer, and it may require much more effort, but you'll more or less get through eventually. The only exceptions to this are the pass/fail and timegate objectives. If you can't satisfy those with your team, you all lose. All your efforts were wasted. And I've said this before, how selfish of a person does someone have to be to join up with a group and not expect to pull their own weight. And no, pulling your own weight does not just mean showing up. Some of the ships I've seen in PUGs, I'd almost rather have them not be there and just be shorthanded.
Vice Admiral of - Starfleet Command -
How about not kicking sand in their faces while they are down there? Seriously, what's not to get? If you don't want to see a bum, don't go into alleys where they live. If someone doesn't want to play with bums, they should understand playing in the bum alley is where bums are playing.
It's not about your ship. It's about their ship. It's not about your skills. It's about their skills. It about public queues where anyone can join. Instead of running around with the bum banish beams blazing, just leave them to their game and go play yours somewhere they aren't. Entitlement is earned with the wallet, not the build. They have as much right to fail as you do to excel. They paid for it.
The universe is full of "me" and only one of those is your personal self. The sooner everyone on both sides of the fence figure that out, the sooner the grass gets greener on both sides. You complain they foist their suckage on you. They complain you force their eliteness on them. If you don't play together, no one sees the other to be foisted upon.
As long as they finance the game, who cares?
How long will this game last with empty queues that fail constantly? We're already seeing the result from people being sick of the leechers in queues. So- your brilliant solution is to exacerbate the problem?
I don't care what kind of Skittle Scow people run. I don't care if people want to fly backwards instead of forwards for some RP reason. Once someone takes that out of their own little world, and forces it upon the fun of others, then it's their business, too.
It's not eilitism if anyone can do it. I don't even hit 30k. Anyone can do that. Anyone can hit 30k if they want. Or more. These aren't super secret societies we're talking about.
I wouldn't go into something called "Impossible mode" if I thought I couldn't do it, but I guess many don't care if they are leeching off of, or trolling.
Borg Disconnected Advanced is annoying and frustrating; but that has nothing to do with DPS, really (just a required level of coordination not usually seen in the PUG). So, I'm not sure what ppl are blaming the DPS-ers for, then.
Ragging on PvP-ers is something I get, as they're generally the most vocal about getting everything nerfed. But what did the DPS-ers ever do?! Other than showing they can do 160k+, they're completely harmless.
See? You have your mind made up as do a couple thousand others on both sides. You step into their little world when you join a random pug and they step into yours. Eliminate the random pug and you eliminate the little world. Complaining about it won't change it but not going into it will. They are not forcing it onto you or me or anyone else. You are placing yourself into their little world by joining the entrance lottery into any one of a thousand of random little worlds. If you know what is behind Random Door X, why go into Random Door X? I'm not saying remove the public queue from the game, remove yourself from the public queue. It's like complaining of stepping in a cow pile while running through a cow pasture. Not going into the pasture at all is the best way to not step into a pile.