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Stop Blaming the DPSers

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    sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    edited January 2015
    zulisvel wrote: »
    Until the Devs decide you aren't.

    Don't get me started on moving goalposts. :mad:
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    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    zulisvel wrote: »
    Until the Devs decide you aren't.

    which is where the 80k and 100k broken barriers come into it. funny how some people see the red line on the floor cross it without thinking about it and all the while cryptic has watched it, its now been crossed twice...

    you think cryptic will allow lightning to strike 3 times? :rolleyes:
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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    zulisvelzulisvel Member Posts: 518 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    you think cryptic will allow lightning to strike 3 times? :rolleyes:
    We're talking about a systems team who's solution to power creep is to add "MOAR POWAH!" So yes, I do think Cryptic will do nothing as that line continues to be crossed.

    Hell I won't be surprised when 200k is reached.
  • Options
    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    zulisvel wrote: »
    We're talking about a systems team who's solution to power creep is to add "MOAR POWAH!" So yes, I do think Cryptic will do nothing as that line continues to be crossed.

    Hell I won't be surprised when 200k is reached.

    i doubt it myself, if that dps number keeps going up, whats the point in the end? it will be no different then it is now with the 100k mark and i cant see any reasonable logic between 100k dps and 200k dps in a fight. it would become an empty shell with no challenge.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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    leceterleceter Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Originally posted here.
    Stop blaming the DPSers for the problems in this game. Especially the HP buffs of all the NPCs.

    I completely agree.
    ...The devs did not do this for 0.1% of the players base. They didn't do this because we demanded more challenge. They do not care about any of the players...
    ...The way the game is right now is entirely intentional and pre-meditated by the Devs.

    To all respect, i don't like the generalization "devs". I am sure, there are a lot of great and talented people working there, that have little to decide. They created a lot of stuff, we all love. The only thing you could blame them for is, to still work for such a company.
    You should seek the deciding heads behind the course of this game and name them as such (somewhere in the management of PWE and cryptic).

    bwleon7 wrote: »
    South Park explained it all pretty well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo_DZpXKq1A


    Great explanation! Added it to my sig...
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    nesomumi2nesomumi2 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Originally posted here.

    Stop blaming the DPSers for the problems in this game. Especially the HP buffs of all the NPCs.

    The devs did not do this for 0.1% of the players base. They didn't do this because we demanded more challenge. They do not care about any of the players.

    What they care about is slowing the game down so people spend more time in game, basically "cooking the books" when it comes to their metrics.

    Pre-DR a lot of the events where too easy, and very quickly completed.

    When DR hit tribble a few of us figured out that the Devs are implementing time gates on all the ingame currencies.

    Their intention is that players only make X mount of Dil, EC, Marks, BNPs, and/or XP per hour. anything that provides more than X amount/hour was removed or nerfed.

    Take a look at all the available Elite Space Queues:
    http://i.imgur.com/72xaZIL.jpg

    They are all long, tedious, and unrewarding. they are all time gates, and apart from Korfez, none of them can be completed in under 15-20 minutes.

    NWS Elite now takes 45minutes-1 hour for a top DPS team to complete and rewards the same amount of marks that NWS normal does.

    This ensures that a player cannot get more than 3 or 4 Salvage Tech per hour.

    This is why they will not be releasing Elite version of the Borg STFs. They have no way to slow players down in IS, CS, or KS so it highly likely that top players like myself would be able to get 3 Salvage Techs in 15 minutes!

    The same applies for the Advanced queues, they do not want players getting Dil/BNPs/whatever too fast.

    That's why they will never give out any kind of good reward for Normal Queues, they're just completed too fast.

    TL: DR If you want someone to blame for the state of the game currently, don't look at the high DPSers. We're just convenient scapegoats. The way the game is right now is entirely intentional and pre-meditated by the Devs.


    when people hate you, that is a good thing. embrace it, means they are jealous. and dont flame the trollers (except if you like it :)) ).
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    nesomumi2nesomumi2 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    leceter wrote: »
    I completely agree.



    To all respect, i don't like the generalization "devs". I am sure, there are a lot of great and talented people working there, that have little to decide. They created a lot of stuff, we all love. The only thing you could blame them for is, to still work for such a company.
    You should seek the deciding heads behind the course of this game and name them as such (somewhere in the management of PWE and cryptic).





    Great explanation! Added it to my sig...

    i don't like devs because of bad coding! do you some how don't see the plethora of bugs in this game?
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    nesomumi2 wrote: »
    i don't like devs because of bad coding! do you some how don't see the plethora of bugs in this game?

    Do you see the plethora of the game which is not buggy?
    ExtxpTp.jpg
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Originally posted here.

    Stop blaming the DPSers for the problems in this game. Especially the HP buffs of all the NPCs.

    I believe NPCs got their hull buffs, just because Geko figured people would start using the Upgrade system. To you high DPS folks, those hulls mean nothing: you can do it in all whites, and still hit 50k. An average player, however, will feel compelled to upgrade.

    So, ironically, if anyone is to blame, it should really be the 'bad' players blaming themselves, to whom the HP buffs are an unsurmountable thing without the highest end gear (or, at least, that is what Geko has them think).
    TL: DR If you want someone to blame for the state of the game currently, don't look at the high DPSers. We're just convenient scapegoats. The way the game is right now is entirely intentional and pre-meditated by the Devs.

    I blame Geko for all the buffs; and, for the nerfs, I blame... wait, that would also be Geko! :P
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't blame the dpsers, they are merely spending the money on gold level gear, and using the mechanics that the devs have set.

    I do see APB getting a huge nerf in the near future, though. Something along the lines of it not stacking on targets.
    They could also attack FAW like they say they want too, but I doubt that would happen.
    The skill itself isn't the problem, just a combination of that and other debuffs, like the above APB.

    Basically anything that lowers the resistance to targets, which allows the huge dps numbers that are seen in these video's...
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





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    jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited January 2015
    personally I love the job the high DPS's do

    They point out the Flaws to the Dev's in the system they created

    I am disappointed in the Devs for not fixing the flaw's...........most are so plain billybob can spot them

    Total lack of gamemastering skills I sopose is the dev's problem

    Its not any of the players fault
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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    rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    Do you see the plethora of the game which is not buggy?

    Yeah, err, actually you might need to point it out, I've noticed bugs in most systems and game modes...
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
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    aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Let's break this down:

    (Snip)

    We are just leveraging the mechanics that the Devs implemented. We're just playing the game as they designed it.

    And for the 100th time ... , that's a Yes and a No .

    Yes , you are leveraging the mechanics .

    But no , you are not playing the game as it was designed .
    No game that I know of was designed FOR top % cliques in mind .
    Game design has to reach for some sort of average .

    As for getting blamed ... -- that is a a Jhonny Come Lately complaint ... , meaning that the PVP'ers were blamed for changes a long time before your DPS crowd made the scene .

    The reasoning as to why DR was ruined by the Devs was already stated here and elsewhere :
    Money & Manipulation .
    I have not "blamed" your crowd for a while now , but I still strongly dislike the way you try to present your selfs and your "achievements" .
    DPS numbers mean nothing to me as it has nothing to do with Star Trek as I know it .


    ... and you already know what I think about segregating the community to segments according to DPS , so I won't go into that again ...
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    sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2015
    jellico1 wrote: »
    personally I love the job the high DPS's do

    They point out the Flaws to the Dev's in the system they created

    I am disappointed in the Devs for not fixing the flaw's...........most are so plain billybob can spot them

    Total lack of game mastering skills I suppose is the dev's problem

    Its not any of the players fault

    Its one thing to point out these flaws. Hell I've been part of teams that have pulled their ground content apart and despite being made aware of this, they've done nothing about it. But again the changes to the advanced queues should have forced people to up their game to a new level.

    But what amazes me is people don't seem to understand the basic maths. For example you have a collective amount of health across all the targets in the map (x) and you have a fixed time to complete the objectives (y) so the equation is simple and I believe that Sarcasm has already brought this up before. X / Y = base dps needed to complete an advanced queue, which in this case I think was around 10k minimum.

    Yet I still see people in builds ect. that they believe are finished yet pull way under this, a recent run this past week in fact saw a player in a avenger class battle cruiser (with MK 14 UR gear) parse less than 1k. Yes the DPS guys pull off obscene numbers, but that's essentially the same as the guys that are minimal manning the ground maps or tearing through them in less than 10mins. The Elite tacs now have a massive AoE knock back, that knocks down everything including other NPC's it has been reported to cryptic, its been raised here by myself, but we cant even get a solid yes or no as to whether its intentional or not.

    But back to topic, all the DPS guys prove is what is possible with knowledge of how and why things work in the game and that solid team work is the most OP thing in game. Geko went on P1 saying how power creep wont be a problem anymore with the release of Delta Rising. Well from what the DPS guys are pulling off and from what my fleet have pulled off on grounds , they haven't sorted squat out. They haven't sorted power creep, they've just set it back maybe 6 months or a year at most, hence why we now have all the artificial time gates at every turn, so we cant get back to where we were pre DR, unless we drop insane amount of money into the game.

    But the changes to DR had but one intent, nothing more than a huge crash grab by Cryptic/PWE
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    But no , you are not playing the game as it was designed .
    No game that I know of was designed FOR top % cliques in mind.

    Hmm, not sure I agree. That is like saying society wasn't designed for the top ~3% of its people attending University. In any system, RL or game, there will always be a very small minority of people excelling way above everyone else.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    jellico1 wrote: »
    personally I love the job the high DPS's do

    They point out the Flaws to the Dev's in the system they created

    Actually , that's what the PVP-ers did , as they matched player used mechanics VS player used mechanics .

    The DPS crowd match player used mechanics against mechanics used by NPC's .
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    aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Hmm, not sure I agree. That is like saying society wasn't designed for the top ~3% of its people attending University. In any system, RL or game, there will always be a very small minority of people excelling way above everyone else.

    In principle that is true , but in practice the game that was launched in Feb 2010 was not designed with Sarcasmdetector , Ryan et al in mind .
    The game was not designed for them .


    EVE for example was designed with acts of PVP piracy in mind .
    STO was not designed for a DPS race . It was changed to that down the road , as power sells .
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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    You're a convenient scapegoat because you're guilty.

    But keep posting those daily videos - caw caw caw look at the shiny gem in my beak caw caw caw
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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    pewpewphazorspewpewphazors Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    STO was not designed for a DPS race . It was changed to that down the road , as power sells .


    Power doesn't sell. The illusion of power in the form of shiny new ships sell. Real power in the form of piloting skill, equipment synergy and teamwork seems to be too expensive for most people to afford unfortunately.
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    prometheusnxprometheusnx Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Originally posted here.

    Stop blaming the DPSers for the problems in this game. Especially the HP buffs of all the NPCs.

    The devs did not do this for 0.1% of the players base. They didn't do this because we demanded more challenge. They do not care about any of the players.

    What they care about is slowing the game down so people spend more time in game, basically "cooking the books" when it comes to their metrics.

    Pre-DR a lot of the events where too easy, and very quickly completed.

    When DR hit tribble a few of us figured out that the Devs are implementing time gates on all the ingame currencies.

    Their intention is that players only make X mount of Dil, EC, Marks, BNPs, and/or XP per hour. anything that provides more than X amount/hour was removed or nerfed.

    Take a look at all the available Elite Space Queues:
    http://i.imgur.com/72xaZIL.jpg

    They are all long, tedious, and unrewarding. they are all time gates, and apart from Korfez, none of them can be completed in under 15-20 minutes.

    NWS Elite now takes 45minutes-1 hour for a top DPS team to complete and rewards the same amount of marks that NWS normal does.

    This ensures that a player cannot get more than 3 or 4 Salvage Tech per hour.

    This is why they will not be releasing Elite version of the Borg STFs. They have no way to slow players down in IS, CS, or KS so it highly likely that top players like myself would be able to get 3 Salvage Techs in 15 minutes!

    The same applies for the Advanced queues, they do not want players getting Dil/BNPs/whatever too fast.

    That's why they will never give out any kind of good reward for Normal Queues, they're just completed too fast.

    TL: DR If you want someone to blame for the state of the game currently, don't look at the high DPSers. We're just convenient scapegoats. The way the game is right now is entirely intentional and pre-meditated by the Devs.

    Damn, whole lot of stroking the ego there. Most of what you say is there or there abouts. But the DPS elite people or whatever they call themselves, certainly don't help.
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    kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    the ideea of mmorpg is totally broken , there is no sense of a team and different roles like tanks ,healers ,support its JUST DPS . Im bored to just spit balls at a sphere ,but others are not ,and they even brag about spitting balls better than others , and if they see a sci ship in game its like „omg ur useless get a escort , make a tac , and start spitting balls. As long as it will just one role in this game ,it will be boring . Its not only devs fault its the players allsow with a limited mind , limited at balls or beams. People do play cruisers or sci but they are forced to go dps (and thats not the purpose of their roles) After a while they get frustrated and make a tac on a escort. This became more obvious since Tu5 upgrade where escorts , dreadnoughts , destroyers get more dmg , making other ship classes more useless . Thats where the chace for dps ended up. And its not only devs fault , players are allsow they encourage them.
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    spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Ok, imagine you own this game ... From that perspective, you can see the population of thousands, millions players playing this game ... some spend, some farm ...
    PRE-DR you could see A LOT of people farming easily with the Elite STFs ... say that in 1 hour you had over 9000 players getting dil and BNPs, 8800 in - say - 8 minutes, 100 in 5, 50 players in 4, 46 players in 3 and the Fantastic Four in 1 minute or less.
    A lot of easy farming across the WHOLE STO population => less time spent to gain "currency" => less profit.
    I have pulled out some random numbers but I am sure you get the picture ...
    P58WJe7.jpg


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    berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    skollulfr wrote: »
    the run-away dps people, are just doing what the game model demands.
    staying ahead of the designed obsolescence and capitalising on the aspects of all teh new monster cards that cryptic add deliberately.
    Ok, one of us is confused, because this part of your post seems to want to place the blame on the Devs, but...
    skollulfr wrote: »
    pve kirk heros asked for this bull**** to the complete chagrin of the pvp players.
    ...this part seems to want to place the blame on the players. Also, to be clear, the DPSers can easily be lumped into the "PvE Kirk Heros" category.
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
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    stevedudemanstevedudeman Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Damn, whole lot of stroking the ego there. Most of what you say is there or there abouts. But the DPS elite people or whatever they call themselves, certainly don't help.

    I fail to see the ego stroke... What do you mean by "don't help"? Don't help with what?
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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I fail to see the ego stroke... What do you mean by "don't help"? Don't help with what?

    Where is the "I think" "In my opinion" or "please?" Just look at the tone. It is an edict from on high from lord dps. The plebians and peasant scum had better obey.

    Sure, 75% of the problem is the devs trying to prevent dilithium and materials gain to force payments.
    But they have an inflated sense of the prevalence of these dps monsters. Otherwise an easy solution would be to cap at 20,000 or 30,000. Plenty of games cap stats. It's not that shocking.

    It's also been made clear that some of the development team is annoyed and trolled with people steamrolling the content. These endless streams of videos only irritate them further.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • Options
    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Actually, those tend to be WORSE about time gates. It's standard for them to charge money for skipping the time gates too. Also a lot of them gate your play time. Such as only letting you do 5 missions a day and similar things...

    Saw that damn commercial on TV and its stuck in my head. Normally I would have said go play Tetris or Bejeweled...

    I just get tired of all the whining about timegates and the complete lack of thought that is involved in most of them.

    Say something has a 30 minute cooldown and takes 5 minutes to run. Folks want to get rid of the 30 minute cooldown. Okay, so they do that...guess what...it now rewards 1/6th what it once did and you have to run it six times to get the same reward you once got running it once. What? People think the reward would be the same and they could earn six times as much in the same time? No, that's people not thinking.

    Timegates allow them to increase the reward and reduce the grind. Yet folks don't think for one second about that because they feel so damn entitled to have everything yesterday.

    It's like all the folks complaining about needing to raise the Dil cap, they're not thinking...they're telling Cryptic that they're earning too much Dil by complaining about not being able to refine all that that Dil they're getting.

    We've got these set and forget projects that take too long where we have to wait? Yeah, instead of being able to set and forget them - so we can do other stuff - so we don't even have to be logged in, they should be something where we have to sit there doing just that until they're done? What? Folks didn't think about that?

    No, we've got the folks that believe that back before DR that something called Elite, that had a 15 minute optional (meaning only the better of those "Elite" running it) with a counter that didn't start until after the first engagement...that it was normal for an average pug to do in 3-5 minutes and for a bad pug maybe to take 7-9 minutes...total.

    That Cryptic didn't fix that early on is definitely Cryptic's fault. No doubt Cryptic created this cesspool of a game in spoiling folks and seeking to attract all the spoiled folks. Even folks that weren't that way, after 2-3 years of it...they just start to slip into that with the crowd as well.

    It's what happens when you make a game where puppies on iPads could play it...and likely play it better than half of the people playing it. The sheer toxicity of this community is everybody reaping the benefits of Cryptic's marketing campaign since the F2P conversion.

    It's a laugh to think that it might be a case of blaming the high DPSers in this game...because the majority of useless leeches in this game are too busy making excuses and blaming anybody that does over 5k DPS of being an elitist that's ruining their fun.

    This game is far from perfect. This game is far from massively screwed up. No, I'm not saying that it's better than massively screwed up...I'm saying it's got a long way to go before it would be good enough to be called massively screwed up.

    But it's getting really old to see the whining day in and day out that people can't have everything yesterday...the UN needs to declare a worldwide emergency, there's some diapers that need changing.
  • Options
    kpg1usakpg1usa Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Originally posted here.

    Stop blaming the DPSers for the problems in this game. Especially the HP buffs of all the NPCs.

    The devs did not do this for 0.1% of the players base. They didn't do this because we demanded more challenge. They do not care about any of the players.

    What they care about is slowing the game down so people spend more time in game, basically "cooking the books" when it comes to their metrics.

    Pre-DR a lot of the events where too easy, and very quickly completed.

    When DR hit tribble a few of us figured out that the Devs are implementing time gates on all the ingame currencies.

    Their intention is that players only make X mount of Dil, EC, Marks, BNPs, and/or XP per hour. anything that provides more than X amount/hour was removed or nerfed.

    Take a look at all the available Elite Space Queues:
    http://i.imgur.com/72xaZIL.jpg

    They are all long, tedious, and unrewarding. they are all time gates, and apart from Korfez, none of them can be completed in under 15-20 minutes.

    NWS Elite now takes 45minutes-1 hour for a top DPS team to complete and rewards the same amount of marks that NWS normal does.

    This ensures that a player cannot get more than 3 or 4 Salvage Tech per hour.

    This is why they will not be releasing Elite version of the Borg STFs. They have no way to slow players down in IS, CS, or KS so it highly likely that top players like myself would be able to get 3 Salvage Techs in 15 minutes!

    The same applies for the Advanced queues, they do not want players getting Dil/BNPs/whatever too fast.

    That's why they will never give out any kind of good reward for Normal Queues, they're just completed too fast.

    TL: DR If you want someone to blame for the state of the game currently, don't look at the high DPSers. We're just convenient scapegoats. The way the game is right now is entirely intentional and pre-meditated by the Devs.


    Hear, hear, the game owners need to realize they are competing against other life activities, and if they make the game too long, then we don't have time to play, as those of us who MAKE MONEY THAT CAN BE SPENT ON THE GAME, also have other responsibilities!

    So, I won't waste my time or money on this game until the queues are playable once again w/ deserving rewards for our VALUABLE TIME!
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    It's also been made clear that some of the development team is annoyed and trolled with people steamrolling the content. These endless streams of videos only irritate them further.

    Have you done exit interviews with those employees...that they're upset with the DPS crowd rolling through the content vs. say that they're upset with having to design content and gear for people that would be challenged watching a Star Trek screensaver?
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