nice to hear . i got into pew after dr hit in my armittage (without upgrading it) and still did well. now the question is how i would did against more experienced players than i met those matches goin full t6 intel pwn?!...
all my builds are my own. indeed many of em are still like s6/7 and still i can compete ("yay, how good am i:rolleyes:") lol. and still the core stays the same: u can tell people "won't adapt" or u can accept that something got screwed up again....
yay opinions :P .... as for me i'm glad they noticed the request and may look into ionic again. thx.
btw: no tbr ever, no "bb-undine-con", no zipping and barely once ever the flav of the month from me, my box is my own and i adapt by playin, not by toys ^^. and sometimes that playin includes toys. but ionic, as said, i got a totally other opinion about.......
Well, why would anyone use other people builds. It's 99% chance that you can't fly it the way someone else imagined.
Exception is now dead a2B/FAW spacebar setup that anyone can c/p.
And yeah, Ionic is very broken if you have a slow ship and even evasives can't get you out of cloud.
It reads like it's written. You are twisting it so you can attack the post lol.
I can see that you are confused.
Yes, I can't imagine playing in same ship with same setup for months let alone years, It has nothing at all with adapting/fighting people that do, you just can't understand what I am saying at all and I won't try to clarify more post that is already clear.
People are constantly tweaking their builds, adapting them. Just because they are flying the same ship does not mean they have not changed anything else with that ship...your inability to see that doesn't change that. There are certain platforms that provide a wealth of opportunities for what players can do with them - and - players do that. Whether they're individuals or in fleets, they're constantly looking at what's there and what they can do with it. They're looking at what other folks are doing and what they can do to counter, either after the fact or preemptively. For all the time you apparently spend in the PvP community, how on Earth have you missed that?
People are constantly tweaking their builds, adapting them. Just because they are flying the same ship does not mean they have not changed anything else with that ship...your inability to see that doesn't change that. There are certain platforms that provide a wealth of opportunities for what players can do with them - and - players do that. Whether they're individuals or in fleets, they're constantly looking at what's there and what they can do with it. They're looking at what other folks are doing and what they can do to counter, either after the fact or preemptively. For all the time you apparently spend in the PvP community, how on Earth have you missed that?
If you want to answer my posts in future I suggest that you read what I'm writing.
I don't talk about people that change their builds or improve them dramatically, I'm talking about people that I'm certain of that use all the same stuff for years. Switching 1 console doesn't change a dual FBP/TBR or dual a2b/FAW or your regularo dual CRF/BO escort or my any ship into something else if I, or they don't change things dramatically.
If you want to answer my posts in future I suggest that you read what I'm writing.
I don't talk about people that change their builds or improve them dramatically, I'm talking about people that I'm certain of that use all the same stuff for years. Switching 1 console doesn't change a dual FBP/TBR or dual a2b/FAW or your regularo dual CRF/BO escort or my any ship into something else if I, or they don't change things dramatically.
Is that so hard to understand?
Where are these mythical people you are complaining about?
Is that so hard to understand?
Cause, I mean honestly, it's just coming off as you don't like certain types of play...saying that somebody using TBR is using a crutch, somebody doing this is a noob, somebody doing that is crying, etc, etc, etc.
It's as if you favor a style of play, and very little change in that area is awesome while anything else doesn't matter if it changes or not.
Cause in Thread#1, you're calling folks that are concerned something is broken noobs for not adapting. While in Thread#2, you're calling folks noobs that use something you see as broken. Just slinging the ol' noob around left, right, and center...with you up on some pedestal determining what is what as you see fit. If noobs are folks that use broken things, then with Ionic potentially being broken - wouldn't the folks using it be the noobs? By the logic of the folks using Neutronic being noobs in the other thread? Or if it is a case that the folks not adapting to Ionic are the noobs, then wouldn't the folks complaining about Neutronic be the noobs? But logical thought doesn't come into play when it just comes down to your subjective preferences...
Where are these mythical people you are complaining about?
Is that so hard to understand?
complaining about? where did I complain?
And before you answer again, I suggest that you try reading, not reading with an attitude or blinding hate.
I said:
Yes, I can't imagine playing in same ship with same setup for months let alone years, It has nothing at all with adapting/fighting people that do,
Many, many, many knew only how to fly standard Recluse, Wells or Bug.
I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way.
It got so stale and easy just before DR
Now, it's a completely different ball game, and i'm glad that some can adapt playing without crutch TBR
Complaining?
Try reading without " I hate you" glasses on.
Cause, I mean honestly, it's just coming off as you don't like certain types of play...saying that somebody using TBR is using a crutch, somebody doing this is a noob, somebody doing that is crying, etc, etc, etc.
It's as if you favor a style of play, and very little change in that area is awesome while anything else doesn't matter if it changes or not.
No, no and no. I don't like facing same type of ship for months. It is boring for me. It's like fighting NPCs after a while. Atleast in DR there is so much chaos and new stuff that I still can enjoy trying to kill/survive in unpredictable team setups.
And yeah, this is not the first time TBR is broken, difference is now it's not a design oversight and now it won't be fixed, now they have given you the tools to boost partigens sky high.(bwemo even says over 700, which is hard to believe and i don't use it so i can't check it)
I can't explain it to you better then that. sorry.
complaining about? where did I complain?
And before you answer again, I suggest that you try reading, not reading with an attitude or blinding hate.
I said:
Yes, I can't imagine playing in same ship with same setup for months let alone years, It has nothing at all with adapting/fighting people that do,
Many, many, many knew only how to fly standard Recluse, Wells or Bug.
I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way.
It got so stale and easy just before DR
Now, it's a completely different ball game, and i'm glad that some can adapt playing without crutch TBR
Complaining?
Try reading without " I hate you" glasses on.
So saying something got stale and easy is a compliment rather than a complaint?
What about the only know how to fly...so they're limited? Is that some sort of compliment to them as well?
You can't imagine playing in the same ship with the same setup...another compliment?
So saying something got stale and easy is a compliment rather than a complaint?
What about the only know how to fly...so they're limited? Is that some sort of compliment to them as well?
You can't imagine playing in the same ship with the same setup...another compliment?
You know...I mean...c'mon...
You are reading that between the lines, but that is not what is between the lines.
That's only indicator that game didn't progress/change because some ships were so much easier to setup right and better for your everyday PvP needs that people used only those. Game not changing forced people in certain setups and not risking it, if you will.
That's all. you are adding too much negatives into it.
For me this thread reads itself of old dogs that can not learn new tricks.
When playing PvP I just see tears running of people who had their "perfect" builds and don't want to adjust to new circumstances.
Agree 100%.
Many, many, many knew only how to fly standard Recluse, Wells or Bug.
I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way.
It got so stale and easy just before DR that I have gone on my romulan, switched from Ar'kif to Scimi, removed TT and ENG LTC from scimitar and still was able to win in hard situations.
Now, it's a completely different ball game, and i'm glad that some can adapt playing without crutch TBR and that I can still go in low level Dyson and get kills vs T6.
So you agree 100% that the thread reads like people that cannot adapt and are just crying. How is that being misread when that's what you quoted and you say you agree 100%? You go on to elaborate that point while also attacking those that use TBR as using a crutch. How is that being misread?
It reads like it's written. You are twisting it so you can attack the post lol.
I can see that you are confused.
Yes, I can't imagine playing in same ship with same setup for months let alone years, It has nothing at all with adapting/fighting people that do, you just can't understand what I am saying at all and I won't try to clarify more post that is already clear.
So you give an example of folks adapting as an example of folks not being able to adapt? I'm confused...it reads more like a distaste for a style of play and inability to adapt to it than anything else.
For me this thread reads itself of old dogs that can not learn new tricks.
When playing PvP I just see tears running of people who had their "perfect" builds and don't want to adjust to new circumstances.
Agree 100%.
Many, many, many knew only how to fly standard Recluse, Wells or Bug.
I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way.
It got so stale and easy just before DR that I have gone on my romulan, switched from Ar'kif to Scimi, removed TT and ENG LTC from scimitar and still was able to win in hard situations.
Now, it's a completely different ball game, and i'm glad that some can adapt playing without crutch TBR and that I can still go in low level Dyson and get kills vs T6.
If you want to answer my posts in future I suggest that you read what I'm writing.
I don't talk about people that change their builds or improve them dramatically, I'm talking about people that I'm certain of that use all the same stuff for years. Switching 1 console doesn't change a dual FBP/TBR or dual a2b/FAW or your regularo dual CRF/BO escort or my any ship into something else if I, or they don't change things dramatically.
People are constantly tweaking their builds, adapting them. Just because they are flying the same ship does not mean they have not changed anything else with that ship...your inability to see that doesn't change that. There are certain platforms that provide a wealth of opportunities for what players can do with them - and - players do that. Whether they're individuals or in fleets, they're constantly looking at what's there and what they can do with it. They're looking at what other folks are doing and what they can do to counter, either after the fact or preemptively. For all the time you apparently spend in the PvP community, how on Earth have you missed that?
Where are these mythical people you are complaining about?
Is that so hard to understand?
Cause, I mean honestly, it's just coming off as you don't like certain types of play...saying that somebody using TBR is using a crutch, somebody doing this is a noob, somebody doing that is crying, etc, etc, etc.
It's as if you favor a style of play, and very little change in that area is awesome while anything else doesn't matter if it changes or not.
Cause in Thread#1, you're calling folks that are concerned something is broken noobs for not adapting. While in Thread#2, you're calling folks noobs that use something you see as broken. Just slinging the ol' noob around left, right, and center...with you up on some pedestal determining what is what as you see fit. If noobs are folks that use broken things, then with Ionic potentially being broken - wouldn't the folks using it be the noobs? By the logic of the folks using Neutronic being noobs in the other thread? Or if it is a case that the folks not adapting to Ionic are the noobs, then wouldn't the folks complaining about Neutronic be the noobs? But logical thought doesn't come into play when it just comes down to your subjective preferences...
Where are these mythical people you are complaining about?
Is that so hard to understand?
complaining about? where did I complain?
And before you answer again, I suggest that you try reading, not reading with an attitude or blinding hate.
I said:
Yes, I can't imagine playing in same ship with same setup for months let alone years, It has nothing at all with adapting/fighting people that do,
Many, many, many knew only how to fly standard Recluse, Wells or Bug.
I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way.
It got so stale and easy just before DR
Now, it's a completely different ball game, and i'm glad that some can adapt playing without crutch TBR
Complaining?
Try reading without " I hate you" glasses on.
A post full of complaints...while questioning where you complained? And the second part of that post...
Cause, I mean honestly, it's just coming off as you don't like certain types of play...saying that somebody using TBR is using a crutch, somebody doing this is a noob, somebody doing that is crying, etc, etc, etc.
It's as if you favor a style of play, and very little change in that area is awesome while anything else doesn't matter if it changes or not.
No, no and no. I don't like facing same type of ship for months. It is boring for me. It's like fighting NPCs after a while. Atleast in DR there is so much chaos and new stuff that I still can enjoy trying to kill/survive in unpredictable team setups.
And yeah, this is not the first time TBR is broken, difference is now it's not a design oversight and now it won't be fixed, now they have given you the tools to boost partigens sky high.(bwemo even says over 700, which is hard to believe and i don't use it so i can't check it)
I can't explain it to you better then that. sorry.
...and we should take it as you're not liking to face the same type of ship as anything other than a complaint? Your posts are riddled with complaints and negativity.
You are reading that between the lines, but that is not what is between the lines.
That's only indicator that game didn't progress/change because some ships were so much easier to setup right and better for your everyday PvP needs that people used only those. Game not changing forced people in certain setups and not risking it, if you will.
That's all. you are adding too much negatives into it.
...and with everything you've said, I'm the one adding too much negative into what you've been saying?
It's kind of a mind-boggling trait...one of those...uh...why?
It's mind-boggling, actually, how many of you can't even imagine flying a ship with HY and instead praise (neutronic) TS3 spam.
I find that trait great if it functions the way I think it does. In between 2 HY.
It's not straight-up bullsh*t like viral or reciprocity, or lets say additional TS3 instead of HY1. I guess then it would be a good trait, right?
Oh wait, then you lot would cry how it's another OP trait. LOL
If neutronic wouldn't function like it does that it kills player when player has shield facing in yellow/red/0, 99.9% people wouldn't use neutronic spread or torpedoes at all. I can guarantee that.
Before neutronic, only people I saw using torps were cloaked torp'varo spread spammers.
I myself wasn't killed by heavy single HY in PvP since forever(maybe never), which doesn't mean that I didn't do it to others and to myself lol.
That's why drunk as well said why additional HY on shields.
Why not on hull? that is the point of HY to drop shields and then hit it with a torp.
where did you see tears there? I have tried neutronic, it kills when it's not supposed to, it kills people that i'm not even aiming at as a colateral bonus. It kills on yellow shields which any other torp won't do.
That's why i took it off when I came back. It is noob broken weapon.
and BTW rest of it is just a pointless post. you can do much better.
P.S. before talking down to people you need to grow up a lil more, "son".
You can't be so delusional to say that I am full of myself after a post like that? Right?
And yes, after trying it in several games i can call neutronic as it is now noob weapon because my trust in player base enjoying PvP without broken stuff is way greater then in Cryptic actually fixing broken stuff.
In any way, live long and prosper.
...and I guess there were no complaints, nothing negative in any of that either, eh?
Personally i have no issue with tbr polarize hull-bang sorted no pull/push or damage ionic on the other hand doesnt do as it states nor is there a simple counter and yes i do have points in dampners and evasive doff yada yada yada the new powers need a balance pass simples. When there is no hard counter or bypass there is something wrong, when a team can disable you for say 80% of match and you cant even use your skills on your tray to help yourself? Yes something is wrong anyone who cant see this well... I duno
Between the two threads... *snip* So you agree 100% that the thread reads like people that cannot adapt and are just crying. How is that being misread when that's what you quoted and you say you agree 100%? So yeah, like I said... *snip*
Just to introduce a little logic to what seems a truly absurd argument (for grinz)...
And yeah, this is not the first time TBR is broken, ...
Hello Jedi,..
i disagree with you again.. TBR is still not boken.. it's strong right but not boken !
It's everytime easy to say someting is boken, if it for some guys to strong.. i can say the same about TS3 with this neutronic,.. i think you fly this aswell.
Regarts
BTW.
I read some stuff about 700 PartG and more.. lol..
PartG Setup for Sci Ships with 5 Sci Consoles:
4 Em. Consoles with PartG + 1 Crafting dobble PartG Console..
1 RCS with PartG + Nukara Console..
Solanee Def. with 50 PartG and maybe the trait astropysiker with + 10
even all of Gold.. you become not more as 450-460 PartG.
Sorry my english is not the best .. but i hope you understand me anyway.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
T'lilu SCI./Dxxdavid TAK./STO Inner Circle *** R.I.P. ***
It's the simple is something working the way it should be...if so, folks will adapt...if not, it should be fixed. I mean, that's the simplicity of it, no? That it would turn into something so antagonistic as it has is kind of mind-boggling.
Personally i have no issue with tbr polarize hull-bang sorted no pull/push or damage ionic on the other hand doesnt do as it states nor is there a simple counter and yes i do have points in dampners and evasive doff yada yada yada the new powers need a balance pass simples. When there is no hard counter or bypass there is something wrong, when a team can disable you for say 80% of match and you cant even use your skills on your tray to help yourself? Yes something is wrong anyone who cant see this well... I duno
/signed!
...thx for making it easy to understand dudes... so to virus for unbeatable forum-skills!
A post full of complaints...while questioning where you complained?
...and we should take it as you're not liking to face the same type of ship as anything other than a complaint? Your posts are riddled with complaints and negativity.
You must differentiate terms complaining and expressing an opinion.
You must also differentiate people that post/complain here and people that play PvP lately i'm talking about when i said "they have adapted".
Also when i say: "I can't imagine playing with same ship and same setup for months let alone years..."
That is not a complaint, that is a comment.
Then, when i continue with: "I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way."
again not a complaint, a simple observation. Indication that game hasn't changed in any way in context of PvP in that time period.
What you did from that? A Straw man.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.
This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.
This entire exchange was pointless. Your only goal was to show that I'm negative about some things that you feel I shouldn't be negative about.
Being negative and complaining, again completely unrelated things in this context.
Me having an opinion about something is not gonna be changed by you wanting that opinion not to be there, or wanting that my opinion has no value.
You have gone into this exchange hating on something I said, or personal hate, only to try to prove that hate is justified without any real substance to your argument.
@David
If you notice, I have said that i have stopped using neutronic after that 2week pause I did.
I used it only for a few days and it was enough to see how much neutronic is broken. Me getting 50-60k hits in TS3 without a single Torpedo/quantum console and killing people that I'm not even aiming at, that are not even in my field of vision was just too cheap.
TBR. yes I remain on position that it is terribly broken with high partigen/doing 10k+ a tick and I will explain why.
Take any sci ship with 4-5 sci console slots. Put all partigen consoles there, boost them as much is possible.
Use that partigen for GW, FBP, whatever. See what those skills need to kill an enemy and then put TBR.
BAM! you're killing left and right, front and aft with high shield penetration, while holding your enemy(enemies) instead of pushing it(them) away(one of worst DOFF mods in history of STO)
Atleast in season 5 when you had to have a toon with no graviton skills to use broken TBR you needed to make a toon in exactly that way to use it. Any graviton and you push enemy away.
Now it doesn't matter. You can be level 50 in comparably weak SCI ship, put some partigens, train TBR and go vs anyone with better ship, higher level etc. with same results.
Anything other on that ship partigen boosted instead of TBR and your ship is not 20% as dangerous.
1 skill completely changing offensive value of a ship is a broken/unbalanced/you-qualify-it skill.
Yeah, there are ways to escape for faster ships if they are not nuked, held or stunned.
But all that vs slower, held, stunned or nuked ship? we all know the results, that is why 100% of scis are using TBR now.
Amount of danger is only measured by number/quality of partigen consoles.
Also you yourself saw what Coconut(bwemo) said yesterday, that it is possible to boost PG to over 700(don't know if it's true yet) but even 400-500 is enough to fry a ship with TBR in few seconds, without aiming or timing or even facing an enemy.
And let's not forget, all that with 100% CrtH with partigen R&D trait.
That is why i think TBR now is broken/bad/unbalanced/whatever.
You can freely disagree with me and I respect that, but that is my firm negative opinion about TBR.
TBR does do insane damage now with all of the traits, consoles, but all of the damage can go to **** with a Polarize Hull and resists.
We faced full teams running with that **** (traits and consoles), but timed PH1 + resists handled it just fine.
The bigger problem is how we're back to old style chainstunning.
and back big time. Even just turbulence is enough if you are slow to completely expose you, HE won't clear it if you are not able to leave the cloud in time. Not to mention all other sht that will hit you in meantime.
Like I said, Intel and intel trait stuns/disables/slows and debuffs in general need to be cleared by Intel team, which can now basically only be used to clear sporadic GI expose or to help you to fk off from or approach the pack.
I read some stuff about 700 PartG and more.. lol..
I run 461 on my scryer full time. Rommie cloak sets this to 561. I am not joined trill, I do not run constant doff bonus, or constant fleet provision bonus. I do not run astro phys or insp leader anymore, as I said you can also run the rommie 2 piece for even more. This all puts you north of 650 prtg. The vesta can get 16 or 18 more. As I said, its possible to hit near 700 part gens.
Are you gonna run this build? Prolly not, but when people say "the most prtg you can have in the game is around 500". Please.
As for ionic, guys out of control = knocked down in ground terms. Not sure why were 17 pages into this and still can't add 2+2.
As for ionic, guys out of control = knocked down in ground terms. Not sure why were 17 pages into this and still can't add 2+2.
Because it was already brought up in either this thread or one of the others...that if Ionic actually worked like Frictionless, there would be less of an issue - there would be the "counter" to it that doesn't exist because of the way it works.
You lob Frictionless...it goes to where the person was when you lobbed it.
You toss Ionic...it goes to where the person is.
If Ionic when to where the person was when you tossed it...then there's 9001 things a person could do.
Thissler brought that up in one of the threads. The follow component...that it tracks.
I'm not disagreeing on its level of brokenness. I'm just saying, the reason that there is a disable attached to it is its applying the space version of grounds "knocked down" condition to you. Nothing works when you're knocked down. ST/ET works 99.9% chance because of the reason I stated pages ago. There's nothing broken about the skill vs its tool tip, it was just designed with no balance logic in mind. The two are very different, and asking cryptic to nerf something over pvp (with the exception of that black ball TRIBBLE, actually impressed that got changed) is about as productive as seeing how well you can dent a brick wall with your forehead at this point.
I'm not disagreeing on its level of brokenness. I'm just saying, the reason that there is a disable attached to it is its applying the space version of grounds "knocked down" condition to you. Nothing works when you're knocked down. ST/ET works 99.9% chance because of the reason I stated pages ago. There's nothing broken about the skill vs its tool tip, it was just designed with no balance logic in mind. The two are very different, and asking cryptic to nerf something over pvp (with the exception of that black ball TRIBBLE, actually impressed that got changed) is about as productive as seeing how well you can dent a brick wall with your forehead at this point.
A bunch of things that have been "fixed" for PvP was because they could be abused in PvE...get everybody abusing stuff over there in PvE, Cryptic would fix it for PvE and PvP would benefit.
Ionic just doesn't affect NPCs like it does players...so meh, that angle doesn't exist for getting Cryptic to look at it. And the number of direct PvP fixes has been miniscule over the years. Even the Dark Poo thing was fixed for PvE, not PvP - it was TRIBBLE Cryptic over more in PvEland than it was any of us over in PvPland. Heh, that getting the PvE folks to abuse the Hell out of stuff folks want fixed for PvP. But Ionic (and Frictionless) just don't have the same issue between NPC and players that many things have had...meh.
I mean, how many bazillions of Ionics have we all dropped out while blitzing Argala or whatever? The difference in effect stands out like a sore thumb. I guess that's part of it, it kind of feels like a FU sort of thing - it's trolltastic from the devs...
if ionic worked like EMPP, cast at were the target was, there would be no difference between the 2 effectively. THAT skill is the space grenade. ionic actually uses the scramble sensors casting code, the perfect chase down and activate on target effect, with the creation of the cloud on target. i don't think thats the problem, activating were the target was is very near to worthless the way the game is now.
for the target it was cast on, no mater how fast they are, still have to roll vs getting disabled, more praying to the RNG gods. and, if your moving less then about 120 speed when you roll poorly, there's about an 80% chance you are chain disabled for the entire duration of the cloud.
judging by the patch notes just after DR launch were ionic was nerfed slightly, it was quoting disable times and lockout times that weren't even accurate, being nerfed to numbers that still weren't even accurate.
actual bug #1- disable lockout? lol, there is exactly none, possibly because of...
actual bug #2- disable length is overruled by the ship rocking and rolling animation length, not any other input duration value for the disable.
possible bug #1- you role for getting disabled again every second at best, every server tic at worst, being in the cloud, and disables stack consecutively, bypassing any lockouts that would trigger between disables
reality #1- the technical details of how it works are irreverent, because the desired effect occurs vs npc, and there's a company wide mandate to no longer care what so ever how broken anything might be if used in pvp. also, they are apparently down 2 system guys at the moment so even if the systems guys still wanted to make a token effort to do right by pvp, they literally cant, probably not for the next 6 months to a year by the time they have trained up replacements. who them selves could unleash unknown horrors, lol thinking its not all going to keep getting worse.
how to do right by pvp #1- remove the disable, simply make it a hull res debuff, and 'hold' from the turbulence animation. make that disable a 'weapons fireing only dissable' wile your stuck in the animation. thats pretty much the exact solution that was come up with for that elachi subspace disable console. do that and pvp isnt ruined, by that skill at least anymore, and no functionality is lost in pve.
oh and do something about EMPP putting your weapons on a 30 second cooldown too, that is bull.
Oh well, if blackball was nerfed due to PvE then thats even worse haha. I was not playing during that fiasco so I've only heard what it was vs what it is and assumed that Cryptic actually realized how dumb of an idea it was. Oh well PvE to the rescue haha. Oh and I totally abused the black ball in argala vs hirogen, that counts right?!?! :P
Honestly yes, the skill needs a dumb fire mode, however, while I was standing in the shower, I was trying to think of any similar space skill that has a dead fire type operation. Pretty much anything thats similar to ionic in terms of creating an effect on the screen (except poo skills) need a target to be activated. I'm obviously not 100% sure on this, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is no "dead fire" option for space skills, and they just code it based on whats available (looking at you suspicious similarity to scramble sensors animation).
The one thing that may help bring some people is to stop thinking of the disable/out of control as what's occuring on your screen. Replace your ship with a ground sprite standing on ice. You slip and fall (knockdown/disable). You get back up, but you're still standing on ice. You have a chance of getting off the ice when you step forward, or you have a chance of falling back down on your TRIBBLE. This is how ionic is really functioning, and why the chain disables get so gross. When you add EMPP on top of this, you've gone from trying to stand up on ice, to trying to crawl on it. The two in conjunction shouldn't be allowed, and I would go as far as to say they could do a double tap lockout on them so they can never be fired in unison. However all of this is moot cuz the skills have literally no impact on pve, as virus said, thats where we have to create a situation if the skill is going to be nerfed, it would seem.
black ball was actually 'nerfed' because of pvp. like, the sole example of them changing anything for pvp, ever. post change to it just being a weapons disable, vs an entire skill tray disable, there's no functionality change with it in pve what so ever, plus they buffed the damage it dealt after it detonated, so for pve it was actually buffed, plain and simple.
i still appear to be the only person to notice that the weapons disable is redundant, because you cant target anything anyway wile in the black ball.
Oh well, if blackball was nerfed due to PvE then thats even worse haha.
It was nerfed beacuse of no win scenario runs.
I did so many at the time with ppl from KP channel. Didn't slow down NWS speed runs anyway, that is why they at the end removed possibility of farming NWS by quiting after 9th wave.
What am I saying is that PvP complaints won't get anything fixed.
Only 2 that come in mind that were fixed becaise of PvP were BO doubletap and TBR.
Every other terribly broken sht was fixed because of PvE. Trics killing ISE gate at very start for example.
So how to create that situation? I have shown in one of my vids what turbulence does to ISE gate.
It would need to completely shut down elite NPCs shields and all for cryptic to take notice.
But I'm expecting something diferent as next move. Ionic Turbulence doff.
History is on side of that prediction.
Remember Elachi space weapons and insane buff they got when Cryptic needed more moneyhz?
black ball was actually 'nerfed' because of pvp. like, the sole example of them changing anything for pvp, ever. post change to it just being a weapons disable, vs an entire skill tray disable, there's no functionality change with it in pve what so ever, plus they buffed the damage it dealt after it detonated, so for pve it was actually buffed, plain and simple.
i still appear to be the only person to notice that the weapons disable is redundant, because you cant target anything anyway wile in the black ball.
I was completely sure it was because of NWS
you have a link?
and how it didnt affected PvE? was all subsys disable, changed to only weapons.
And sole example? wasn't BO double tap and TBR changed because of PvP?
Oh well, if blackball was nerfed due to PvE then thats even worse haha. I was not playing during that fiasco so I've only heard what it was vs what it is and assumed that Cryptic actually realized how dumb of an idea it was. Oh well PvE to the rescue haha. Oh and I totally abused the black ball in argala vs hirogen, that counts right?!?! :P
The initial incarnation of the Subspace Poo rendered "boss" type NPCs as well as clumpable (lol, clumpable) NPCs...well, it completely neutered them. It made most PvE content a silly joke and totally screwed with Cryptic's reward scheme. Us making each other sitting ducks and blowing each other up...didn't affect Dil, Marks, BNPs, etc, etc, etc like it did over in PvEland.
Bunch of folks didn't notice, didn't think twice about the effect it might have cause they were obliterating everything anyway...but it wasn't those folks Cryptic noticed, it was all the folks that normally weren't doing that which were suddenly ravaging the content and reaping the rewards.
To get something fixed on any kind of time frame, it needs to affect rewards. Look how fast they'll bring the server down if there's some TRIBBLE up with rewards but how many years something can go on broken if it doesn't have a major impact on rewards, eh?
But yeah, Bort explained it right off the back with Dark Poo...
We didn't do a great job explaining how this power functions, so let me break it down to a mechanical level:
- An untargetable projectile is shot at the target. It tracks - it cannot be escaped.
- Once it impacts the intended target, it erupts into a hazard area that is 3.0k from the impact point in every direction (I think that distance is right - working from memory here)
- While within this hazard zone, your Flight Speed is reduced and your weapons and bridge officer abilities cannot be activated. Your Perception will also be limited to only being able to see your own ship.
- After a short time (6 seconds, I believe), the Rupture closes, dealing a moderate amount of Kinetic damage to anyone within the hazard area. It's about equivalent to a Quantum Torpedo - nothing massive.
Players in PvP that see an enemy using this ability can easily counter it:
- Keep an eye out for the distinctive projectile, and use any Maneuvering Buff while it is inbound (Evasive Maneuvers, AP:Omega, EPtEngines, Subspace Wake, etc). And keep your Throttle high.
- Fly with higher than 25 Engine Power, and invest in Inertial Dampers skill. We made sure, when tuning this power, that even a moderately-geared player can escape the hazard without a monumental effort, before it implodes.
...basically making it a L2P issue for those complaints.
NPCs on the other hand, lol. From folks in NWS, folks doing ISE, to folks chaining the Crystalline - folks were abusing the Dark Poo all over the place and gobbling up rewards.
Honestly yes, the skill needs a dumb fire mode, however, while I was standing in the shower, I was trying to think of any similar space skill that has a dead fire type operation. Pretty much anything thats similar to ionic in terms of creating an effect on the screen (except poo skills) need a target to be activated. I'm obviously not 100% sure on this, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is no "dead fire" option for space skills, and they just code it based on whats available (looking at you suspicious similarity to scramble sensors animation).
There's the Icon stuff that Thomas dropped out recently, eh?
The one thing that may help bring some people is to stop thinking of the disable/out of control as what's occuring on your screen. Replace your ship with a ground sprite standing on ice. You slip and fall (knockdown/disable). You get back up, but you're still standing on ice. You have a chance of getting off the ice when you step forward, or you have a chance of falling back down on your TRIBBLE. This is how ionic is really functioning, and why the chain disables get so gross. When you add EMPP on top of this, you've gone from trying to stand up on ice, to trying to crawl on it. The two in conjunction shouldn't be allowed, and I would go as far as to say they could do a double tap lockout on them so they can never be fired in unison. However all of this is moot cuz the skills have literally no impact on pve, as virus said, thats where we have to create a situation if the skill is going to be nerfed, it would seem.
But that's kind of where the idea of it perhaps having been meant to be a root rather than a stun comes into play. The ship "falling" wouldn't be a disable - it would have to be a case of everybody on the ship "falling" for it to be a disable. Heh, it's the Star Trek Shake...but unlike a PSW or Web Mines, it's a pretty damn near persistent shake going on there. Which when you look at NPCs...do we see the same? I haven't. Players with all sorts of ID are rockin' back and forth sitting there grabbing their ankles while NPCs just kind of lolwut it..meh. It's like they thought about how things were screwed up with the Subspace Integration Circuits and avoided that with the Ionic for the NPCs...or it could all be in my head. I've dropped out far more Ionics on NPCs than players (like I said in one thread, I'd feel bad using most of this TRIBBLE on players - but I'm going to abuse the Hell out of it on NPCs) and it's mainly been about the debuff for the NPCs and the disable for the players...
The ship "falling" wouldn't be a disable - it would have to be a case of everybody on the ship "falling" for it to be a disable. Heh, it's the Star Trek Shake...
I'm gonna guess this is essentially the motivation behind the idea of "out of control" haha. But if this was replicated in game you'd just go spinning out of the ionic cloud. Which might actually not be a bad idea...
The first few days of Ionic you could make big npcs dance hilariously, the immunity was added from a pure RP sense I think? Not really sure why anyone would complain about dancing gateways and tac cubes but there is that population amongst us. As for the targeted stuff, it's more likely, and I'm gonna stretch here with a slight chicken or the egg paradox.
Frictionless grenade was made first (assumption) and then the idea developed into a space skill (again assumption) but there is no dead fire option (based on those targeting icons) for space and there is no "lob fire" like a grenade. So because of this the options were to create a new targeting hierarchy for effects that just dead fire or to inherit the already existing rules they have to work with in the system. Now dead/lob fire creates two problems with ionic. First, lob fire isn't really realistic in a vacuum. Second, the effect of Ionic is relatively small to be dead fired, and would probably need to be increased in size to compensate for it, otherwise it becomes semi useless unless used in conjunction with grav well in pve. If you had this as a dead fire skill, its usefulness would sorta fall to yellowstone poo level hit or miss. You either can see it or you can't. Taking all that in mind a smaller, homing version of the skill does seem more logical, however, all of this can be countered with another Bort quote I don't feel like trying to dig for, it's at least 2-3 years burried in a thread about the TIF set when it first came out. The important parts were "every power should have an equally available hard or soft counter" and "disables ruin the enjoyment of the game as having no control over your ship is like watching a movie". How I long for these things to actually be the case in sto pvp.
And sole example? wasn't BO double tap and TBR changed because of PvP?
Still think it was a trip what Hawk's change to the BO stuff resulted in...instead of increasing TTL, folks actually found other ways to reduce TTL even more. The cynic in me believes it was planned - why allow folks to do it for "free" when they could be "sold" various goodies instead. It was a major push into clickyville at that point, eh?
I'm gonna guess this is essentially the motivation behind the idea of "out of control" haha. But if this was replicated in game you'd just go spinning out of the ionic cloud. Which might actually not be a bad idea...
If I'd seen that 10-15 years from now, instead of joking about almost pissing myself while laughing I would have actually pissed myself laughing...lol, that's epic!
The first few days of Ionic you could make big npcs dance hilariously, the immunity was added from a pure RP sense I think? Not really sure why anyone would complain about dancing gateways and tac cubes but there is that population amongst us. As for the targeted stuff, it's more likely, and I'm gonna stretch here with a slight chicken or the egg paradox.
Frictionless grenade was made first (assumption) and then the idea developed into a space skill (again assumption) but there is no dead fire option (based on those targeting icons) for space and there is no "lob fire" like a grenade. So because of this the options were to create a new targeting hierarchy for effects that just dead fire or to inherit the already existing rules they have to work with in the system. Now dead/lob fire creates two problems with ionic. First, lob fire isn't really realistic in a vacuum. Second, the effect of Ionic is relatively small to be dead fired, and would probably need to be increased in size to compensate for it, otherwise it becomes semi useless unless used in conjunction with grav well in pve. If you had this as a dead fire skill, its usefulness would sorta fall to yellowstone poo level hit or miss. You either can see it or you can't. Taking all that in mind a smaller, homing version of the skill does seem more logical, however, all of this can be countered with another Bort quote I don't feel like trying to dig for, it's at least 2-3 years burried in a thread about the TIF set when it first came out. The important parts were "every power should have an equally available hard or soft counter" and "disables ruin the enjoyment of the game as having no control over your ship is like watching a movie". How I long for these things to actually be the case in sto pvp.
I was thinking about the "dead fire" thing and the cylinder targeting...the Projected Singularity, eh? It fires in a straight line to a point and stops, based on ship facing - no target required. It's kind of annoying to use, imho, because it doesn't always quite go where you think it's going to go. It's a 2D sort of thing instead of a 3D thing - say you're at an angle above somebody, but facing in their direction...it's not going to fire at them, it's going to fire along a horizontal plane in the direction you're facing that could completely miss them.
So if they were actually to rotate that cylinder based on the actual player's facing to allow for actual aiming rather than having it along that 2D plane instead, then given a distance that it would connect - players could dead space aim it.
With the disable stuff, I'm of the opinion that if somebody is putting all sorts of effort into it - doing some kind of D&D Vesta build or the like, then let the games commence. If somebody just happens to have a T6 boat with a 13th BOFF ability and is able to slot Ionic...meh.
Comments
Well, why would anyone use other people builds. It's 99% chance that you can't fly it the way someone else imagined.
Exception is now dead a2B/FAW spacebar setup that anyone can c/p.
And yeah, Ionic is very broken if you have a slow ship and even evasives can't get you out of cloud.
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People are constantly tweaking their builds, adapting them. Just because they are flying the same ship does not mean they have not changed anything else with that ship...your inability to see that doesn't change that. There are certain platforms that provide a wealth of opportunities for what players can do with them - and - players do that. Whether they're individuals or in fleets, they're constantly looking at what's there and what they can do with it. They're looking at what other folks are doing and what they can do to counter, either after the fact or preemptively. For all the time you apparently spend in the PvP community, how on Earth have you missed that?
If you want to answer my posts in future I suggest that you read what I'm writing.
I don't talk about people that change their builds or improve them dramatically, I'm talking about people that I'm certain of that use all the same stuff for years. Switching 1 console doesn't change a dual FBP/TBR or dual a2b/FAW or your regularo dual CRF/BO escort or my any ship into something else if I, or they don't change things dramatically.
Is that so hard to understand?
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Where are these mythical people you are complaining about?
Is that so hard to understand?
Cause, I mean honestly, it's just coming off as you don't like certain types of play...saying that somebody using TBR is using a crutch, somebody doing this is a noob, somebody doing that is crying, etc, etc, etc.
It's as if you favor a style of play, and very little change in that area is awesome while anything else doesn't matter if it changes or not.
Cause in Thread#1, you're calling folks that are concerned something is broken noobs for not adapting. While in Thread#2, you're calling folks noobs that use something you see as broken. Just slinging the ol' noob around left, right, and center...with you up on some pedestal determining what is what as you see fit. If noobs are folks that use broken things, then with Ionic potentially being broken - wouldn't the folks using it be the noobs? By the logic of the folks using Neutronic being noobs in the other thread? Or if it is a case that the folks not adapting to Ionic are the noobs, then wouldn't the folks complaining about Neutronic be the noobs? But logical thought doesn't come into play when it just comes down to your subjective preferences...
complaining about? where did I complain?
And before you answer again, I suggest that you try reading, not reading with an attitude or blinding hate.
I said:
Yes, I can't imagine playing in same ship with same setup for months let alone years, It has nothing at all with adapting/fighting people that do,
Many, many, many knew only how to fly standard Recluse, Wells or Bug.
I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way.
It got so stale and easy just before DR
Now, it's a completely different ball game, and i'm glad that some can adapt playing without crutch TBR
Complaining?
Try reading without " I hate you" glasses on.
No, no and no. I don't like facing same type of ship for months. It is boring for me. It's like fighting NPCs after a while. Atleast in DR there is so much chaos and new stuff that I still can enjoy trying to kill/survive in unpredictable team setups.
And yeah, this is not the first time TBR is broken, difference is now it's not a design oversight and now it won't be fixed, now they have given you the tools to boost partigens sky high.(bwemo even says over 700, which is hard to believe and i don't use it so i can't check it)
I can't explain it to you better then that. sorry.
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So saying something got stale and easy is a compliment rather than a complaint?
What about the only know how to fly...so they're limited? Is that some sort of compliment to them as well?
You can't imagine playing in the same ship with the same setup...another compliment?
You know...I mean...c'mon...
You are reading that between the lines, but that is not what is between the lines.
That's only indicator that game didn't progress/change because some ships were so much easier to setup right and better for your everyday PvP needs that people used only those. Game not changing forced people in certain setups and not risking it, if you will.
That's all. you are adding too much negatives into it.
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So you agree 100% that the thread reads like people that cannot adapt and are just crying. How is that being misread when that's what you quoted and you say you agree 100%? You go on to elaborate that point while also attacking those that use TBR as using a crutch. How is that being misread?
I twisted what you said? This is what I asked...
...and again, what you had said:
When you offer this in reply...
...to my having posted this...
...how could I respond with anything but this...
That you in turn replied with...
A post full of complaints...while questioning where you complained? And the second part of that post...
...and we should take it as you're not liking to face the same type of ship as anything other than a complaint? Your posts are riddled with complaints and negativity.
This was the last one in this thread...
...and with everything you've said, I'm the one adding too much negative into what you've been saying?
How about the other thread too, eh?
...and I guess there were no complaints, nothing negative in any of that either, eh?
So yeah, like I said...
Just to introduce a little logic to what seems a truly absurd argument (for grinz)...
IF
Sharx agrees with Schlucki
AND
Sharx disagrees with Virus
THEN
Sharx gets forum pwned by Virus
QED.
Kill Feddie.
Waff
Hello Jedi,..
i disagree with you again.. TBR is still not boken.. it's strong right but not boken !
It's everytime easy to say someting is boken, if it for some guys to strong.. i can say the same about TS3 with this neutronic,.. i think you fly this aswell.
Regarts
BTW.
I read some stuff about 700 PartG and more.. lol..
PartG Setup for Sci Ships with 5 Sci Consoles:
4 Em. Consoles with PartG + 1 Crafting dobble PartG Console..
1 RCS with PartG + Nukara Console..
Solanee Def. with 50 PartG and maybe the trait astropysiker with + 10
even all of Gold.. you become not more as 450-460 PartG.
Sorry my english is not the best .. but i hope you understand me anyway.
*** R.I.P. ***
/signed!
...thx for making it easy to understand dudes... so to virus for unbeatable forum-skills!
You must differentiate terms complaining and expressing an opinion.
You must also differentiate people that post/complain here and people that play PvP lately i'm talking about when i said "they have adapted".
Also when i say: "I can't imagine playing with same ship and same setup for months let alone years..."
That is not a complaint, that is a comment.
Then, when i continue with:
"I paused from STO last year this time and came back 3 months later only to see same people in same ships flying the same way."
again not a complaint, a simple observation. Indication that game hasn't changed in any way in context of PvP in that time period.
What you did from that? A Straw man.
A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.
This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.
This entire exchange was pointless. Your only goal was to show that I'm negative about some things that you feel I shouldn't be negative about.
Being negative and complaining, again completely unrelated things in this context.
Me having an opinion about something is not gonna be changed by you wanting that opinion not to be there, or wanting that my opinion has no value.
You have gone into this exchange hating on something I said, or personal hate, only to try to prove that hate is justified without any real substance to your argument.
@David
If you notice, I have said that i have stopped using neutronic after that 2week pause I did.
I used it only for a few days and it was enough to see how much neutronic is broken. Me getting 50-60k hits in TS3 without a single Torpedo/quantum console and killing people that I'm not even aiming at, that are not even in my field of vision was just too cheap.
TBR. yes I remain on position that it is terribly broken with high partigen/doing 10k+ a tick and I will explain why.
Take any sci ship with 4-5 sci console slots. Put all partigen consoles there, boost them as much is possible.
Use that partigen for GW, FBP, whatever. See what those skills need to kill an enemy and then put TBR.
BAM! you're killing left and right, front and aft with high shield penetration, while holding your enemy(enemies) instead of pushing it(them) away(one of worst DOFF mods in history of STO)
Atleast in season 5 when you had to have a toon with no graviton skills to use broken TBR you needed to make a toon in exactly that way to use it. Any graviton and you push enemy away.
Now it doesn't matter. You can be level 50 in comparably weak SCI ship, put some partigens, train TBR and go vs anyone with better ship, higher level etc. with same results.
Anything other on that ship partigen boosted instead of TBR and your ship is not 20% as dangerous.
1 skill completely changing offensive value of a ship is a broken/unbalanced/you-qualify-it skill.
Yeah, there are ways to escape for faster ships if they are not nuked, held or stunned.
But all that vs slower, held, stunned or nuked ship? we all know the results, that is why 100% of scis are using TBR now.
Amount of danger is only measured by number/quality of partigen consoles.
Also you yourself saw what Coconut(bwemo) said yesterday, that it is possible to boost PG to over 700(don't know if it's true yet) but even 400-500 is enough to fry a ship with TBR in few seconds, without aiming or timing or even facing an enemy.
And let's not forget, all that with 100% CrtH with partigen R&D trait.
That is why i think TBR now is broken/bad/unbalanced/whatever.
You can freely disagree with me and I respect that, but that is my firm negative opinion about TBR.
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We faced full teams running with that **** (traits and consoles), but timed PH1 + resists handled it just fine.
The bigger problem is how we're back to old style chainstunning.
and back big time. Even just turbulence is enough if you are slow to completely expose you, HE won't clear it if you are not able to leave the cloud in time. Not to mention all other sht that will hit you in meantime.
Like I said, Intel and intel trait stuns/disables/slows and debuffs in general need to be cleared by Intel team, which can now basically only be used to clear sporadic GI expose or to help you to fk off from or approach the pack.
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Bring back the 24/7 VM! It sounds cooler. :P
I run 461 on my scryer full time. Rommie cloak sets this to 561. I am not joined trill, I do not run constant doff bonus, or constant fleet provision bonus. I do not run astro phys or insp leader anymore, as I said you can also run the rommie 2 piece for even more. This all puts you north of 650 prtg. The vesta can get 16 or 18 more. As I said, its possible to hit near 700 part gens.
Are you gonna run this build? Prolly not, but when people say "the most prtg you can have in the game is around 500". Please.
As for ionic, guys out of control = knocked down in ground terms. Not sure why were 17 pages into this and still can't add 2+2.
ninja edit cuz 17 > 14
Because it was already brought up in either this thread or one of the others...that if Ionic actually worked like Frictionless, there would be less of an issue - there would be the "counter" to it that doesn't exist because of the way it works.
You lob Frictionless...it goes to where the person was when you lobbed it.
You toss Ionic...it goes to where the person is.
If Ionic when to where the person was when you tossed it...then there's 9001 things a person could do.
Thissler brought that up in one of the threads. The follow component...that it tracks.
A bunch of things that have been "fixed" for PvP was because they could be abused in PvE...get everybody abusing stuff over there in PvE, Cryptic would fix it for PvE and PvP would benefit.
Ionic just doesn't affect NPCs like it does players...so meh, that angle doesn't exist for getting Cryptic to look at it. And the number of direct PvP fixes has been miniscule over the years. Even the Dark Poo thing was fixed for PvE, not PvP - it was TRIBBLE Cryptic over more in PvEland than it was any of us over in PvPland. Heh, that getting the PvE folks to abuse the Hell out of stuff folks want fixed for PvP. But Ionic (and Frictionless) just don't have the same issue between NPC and players that many things have had...meh.
I mean, how many bazillions of Ionics have we all dropped out while blitzing Argala or whatever? The difference in effect stands out like a sore thumb. I guess that's part of it, it kind of feels like a FU sort of thing - it's trolltastic from the devs...
for the target it was cast on, no mater how fast they are, still have to roll vs getting disabled, more praying to the RNG gods. and, if your moving less then about 120 speed when you roll poorly, there's about an 80% chance you are chain disabled for the entire duration of the cloud.
judging by the patch notes just after DR launch were ionic was nerfed slightly, it was quoting disable times and lockout times that weren't even accurate, being nerfed to numbers that still weren't even accurate.
actual bug #1- disable lockout? lol, there is exactly none, possibly because of...
actual bug #2- disable length is overruled by the ship rocking and rolling animation length, not any other input duration value for the disable.
possible bug #1- you role for getting disabled again every second at best, every server tic at worst, being in the cloud, and disables stack consecutively, bypassing any lockouts that would trigger between disables
reality #1- the technical details of how it works are irreverent, because the desired effect occurs vs npc, and there's a company wide mandate to no longer care what so ever how broken anything might be if used in pvp. also, they are apparently down 2 system guys at the moment so even if the systems guys still wanted to make a token effort to do right by pvp, they literally cant, probably not for the next 6 months to a year by the time they have trained up replacements. who them selves could unleash unknown horrors, lol thinking its not all going to keep getting worse.
how to do right by pvp #1- remove the disable, simply make it a hull res debuff, and 'hold' from the turbulence animation. make that disable a 'weapons fireing only dissable' wile your stuck in the animation. thats pretty much the exact solution that was come up with for that elachi subspace disable console. do that and pvp isnt ruined, by that skill at least anymore, and no functionality is lost in pve.
oh and do something about EMPP putting your weapons on a 30 second cooldown too, that is bull.
Honestly yes, the skill needs a dumb fire mode, however, while I was standing in the shower, I was trying to think of any similar space skill that has a dead fire type operation. Pretty much anything thats similar to ionic in terms of creating an effect on the screen (except poo skills) need a target to be activated. I'm obviously not 100% sure on this, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is no "dead fire" option for space skills, and they just code it based on whats available (looking at you suspicious similarity to scramble sensors animation).
The one thing that may help bring some people is to stop thinking of the disable/out of control as what's occuring on your screen. Replace your ship with a ground sprite standing on ice. You slip and fall (knockdown/disable). You get back up, but you're still standing on ice. You have a chance of getting off the ice when you step forward, or you have a chance of falling back down on your TRIBBLE. This is how ionic is really functioning, and why the chain disables get so gross. When you add EMPP on top of this, you've gone from trying to stand up on ice, to trying to crawl on it. The two in conjunction shouldn't be allowed, and I would go as far as to say they could do a double tap lockout on them so they can never be fired in unison. However all of this is moot cuz the skills have literally no impact on pve, as virus said, thats where we have to create a situation if the skill is going to be nerfed, it would seem.
i still appear to be the only person to notice that the weapons disable is redundant, because you cant target anything anyway wile in the black ball.
It was nerfed beacuse of no win scenario runs.
I did so many at the time with ppl from KP channel. Didn't slow down NWS speed runs anyway, that is why they at the end removed possibility of farming NWS by quiting after 9th wave.
What am I saying is that PvP complaints won't get anything fixed.
Only 2 that come in mind that were fixed becaise of PvP were BO doubletap and TBR.
Every other terribly broken sht was fixed because of PvE. Trics killing ISE gate at very start for example.
So how to create that situation? I have shown in one of my vids what turbulence does to ISE gate.
http://youtu.be/NQvNcUxQtZ8?t=2m5s
It would need to completely shut down elite NPCs shields and all for cryptic to take notice.
But I'm expecting something diferent as next move. Ionic Turbulence doff.
History is on side of that prediction.
Remember Elachi space weapons and insane buff they got when Cryptic needed more moneyhz?
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
you have a link?
and how it didnt affected PvE? was all subsys disable, changed to only weapons.
And sole example? wasn't BO double tap and TBR changed because of PvP?
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
The initial incarnation of the Subspace Poo rendered "boss" type NPCs as well as clumpable (lol, clumpable) NPCs...well, it completely neutered them. It made most PvE content a silly joke and totally screwed with Cryptic's reward scheme. Us making each other sitting ducks and blowing each other up...didn't affect Dil, Marks, BNPs, etc, etc, etc like it did over in PvEland.
Bunch of folks didn't notice, didn't think twice about the effect it might have cause they were obliterating everything anyway...but it wasn't those folks Cryptic noticed, it was all the folks that normally weren't doing that which were suddenly ravaging the content and reaping the rewards.
To get something fixed on any kind of time frame, it needs to affect rewards. Look how fast they'll bring the server down if there's some TRIBBLE up with rewards but how many years something can go on broken if it doesn't have a major impact on rewards, eh?
But yeah, Bort explained it right off the back with Dark Poo...
...basically making it a L2P issue for those complaints.
NPCs on the other hand, lol. From folks in NWS, folks doing ISE, to folks chaining the Crystalline - folks were abusing the Dark Poo all over the place and gobbling up rewards.
There's the Icon stuff that Thomas dropped out recently, eh?
http://imgur.com/a/0lAOn
Single Target
Self
Point (Player) Based Area of Effect
Cone
Cylinder
Area of Effect
Are the "targeting" options.
But that's kind of where the idea of it perhaps having been meant to be a root rather than a stun comes into play. The ship "falling" wouldn't be a disable - it would have to be a case of everybody on the ship "falling" for it to be a disable. Heh, it's the Star Trek Shake...but unlike a PSW or Web Mines, it's a pretty damn near persistent shake going on there. Which when you look at NPCs...do we see the same? I haven't. Players with all sorts of ID are rockin' back and forth sitting there grabbing their ankles while NPCs just kind of lolwut it..meh. It's like they thought about how things were screwed up with the Subspace Integration Circuits and avoided that with the Ionic for the NPCs...or it could all be in my head. I've dropped out far more Ionics on NPCs than players (like I said in one thread, I'd feel bad using most of this TRIBBLE on players - but I'm going to abuse the Hell out of it on NPCs) and it's mainly been about the debuff for the NPCs and the disable for the players...
I'm gonna guess this is essentially the motivation behind the idea of "out of control" haha. But if this was replicated in game you'd just go spinning out of the ionic cloud. Which might actually not be a bad idea...
The first few days of Ionic you could make big npcs dance hilariously, the immunity was added from a pure RP sense I think? Not really sure why anyone would complain about dancing gateways and tac cubes but there is that population amongst us. As for the targeted stuff, it's more likely, and I'm gonna stretch here with a slight chicken or the egg paradox.
Frictionless grenade was made first (assumption) and then the idea developed into a space skill (again assumption) but there is no dead fire option (based on those targeting icons) for space and there is no "lob fire" like a grenade. So because of this the options were to create a new targeting hierarchy for effects that just dead fire or to inherit the already existing rules they have to work with in the system. Now dead/lob fire creates two problems with ionic. First, lob fire isn't really realistic in a vacuum. Second, the effect of Ionic is relatively small to be dead fired, and would probably need to be increased in size to compensate for it, otherwise it becomes semi useless unless used in conjunction with grav well in pve. If you had this as a dead fire skill, its usefulness would sorta fall to yellowstone poo level hit or miss. You either can see it or you can't. Taking all that in mind a smaller, homing version of the skill does seem more logical, however, all of this can be countered with another Bort quote I don't feel like trying to dig for, it's at least 2-3 years burried in a thread about the TIF set when it first came out. The important parts were "every power should have an equally available hard or soft counter" and "disables ruin the enjoyment of the game as having no control over your ship is like watching a movie". How I long for these things to actually be the case in sto pvp.
Still think it was a trip what Hawk's change to the BO stuff resulted in...instead of increasing TTL, folks actually found other ways to reduce TTL even more. The cynic in me believes it was planned - why allow folks to do it for "free" when they could be "sold" various goodies instead. It was a major push into clickyville at that point, eh?
If I'd seen that 10-15 years from now, instead of joking about almost pissing myself while laughing I would have actually pissed myself laughing...lol, that's epic!
I was thinking about the "dead fire" thing and the cylinder targeting...the Projected Singularity, eh? It fires in a straight line to a point and stops, based on ship facing - no target required. It's kind of annoying to use, imho, because it doesn't always quite go where you think it's going to go. It's a 2D sort of thing instead of a 3D thing - say you're at an angle above somebody, but facing in their direction...it's not going to fire at them, it's going to fire along a horizontal plane in the direction you're facing that could completely miss them.
So if they were actually to rotate that cylinder based on the actual player's facing to allow for actual aiming rather than having it along that 2D plane instead, then given a distance that it would connect - players could dead space aim it.
With the disable stuff, I'm of the opinion that if somebody is putting all sorts of effort into it - doing some kind of D&D Vesta build or the like, then let the games commence. If somebody just happens to have a T6 boat with a 13th BOFF ability and is able to slot Ionic...meh.