to say its now just like its always been is ludicrous. nothing anyone complained about in the past even rates as a problem by comparison to what DR brought, they were just complained about because the pvp experience was worse for the changes. as late as season 8, pvp was great, there was basically nothing to complain about then.
skill cant save you anymore, skill was a hard counter to vape, and control, and everything else. using the counters and adapting was always possible in the past, and nothing was so over the top that it couldn't be overcome. now this is not true. no amount of skill can save you from ionic chain stun, neutronic spread 3 shots, 15k TBR tics and iso cannon, surgical strike vaping you in 1 weapons cycle with DHCs, these are all show stopping problems that cant be overcome. normal pvp now basically has the problem shuttle pvp has, stuff is plain imbalanced when used there, period. with no one holding back or self nerfing, no meaningful, satisfying interactions are possible anymore.
Im fairly sure the point of the super disable system was to convert players into the skill level of an NPC. That way a Pve player can feel just as good at doing pvp as they do in pve.
They need to restore the old duality between debuffs and cleans. Ionic and such disable t6 abilities have to be hard countered in some ways. I hope the devs read us pvpers and understand the huge problem we have now in the qs...
That's weird, I could have sworn I did a TS3 Neut thread over in the Gameplay Bugs...but apparently I didn't. Needless to say, I've been having a sort of passive aggressive thing going on where I've not been reporting things - reporting things - and sometimes just talking about bugs for people to enjoy every where but the bug section.
I think we've all seen folks snap with one update/change or another along the way. They're fine, maybe not fine but they're fine for them...then one day...bam...ayup, meh.
The sheer number of bugs with DR, those introduced and those left unfixed from before it launched...I just didn't want to look at anything anymore. Every where you'd look to figure out how something worked...almost guaranteed to find a bug. Became a big ol' mess of TRIBBLE it and TRIBBLE Cryptic.
Have to wonder what PvP would be like if even half of the bugs out there were addressed...
...probably the same, but at least I wouldn't be tripping over them.
So yeah, D'Angelo and his Improvements for 2015...can start with fixing TRIBBLE that's been broken since 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and maybe try not to introduce all sorts of broken TRIBBLE in 2015.
Im fairly sure the point of the super disable system was to convert players into the skill level of an NPC. That way a Pve player can feel just as good at doing pvp as they do in pve.
but, but, people here brainstormed for years to find a way to make the PvP newb-friendly.
Now it's here.
Anyone can now buy prtg consoles, train TBR, finish t4 Delta rep in 20 days and get neutronic and Iso cannon.
Voila! a competitive PvPlayer is born.
But, wait, all those PvE only people still don't want to go anywhere near PvP?
And PvE people still favor full FAW antiproton or Galor beams over weak TRIBBLE torpedos?
So what is the problem?
PvP community FAILED.
-unable to adapt and enjoy without having most powerful healer, SCI or TAC setup
-Wells, Recluse, Bug. Team TIF, Theta, EWP. C/P bug setups.
-unable to take defeat by same or even worse setups they use without crying
-Opening the thread: XY is broken. Using even worse XXY same night.
-Write SRO is broken in one thread. Recommending 5 SRO in other.
-number crunching, trolling, whining, griefing, pseudo-elitism and general ego masturbation on forums.
-it's game's fault because average PvPer is an obnoxious jerk is the motto.
but, but, people here brainstormed for years to find a way to make the PvP newb-friendly.
Now it's here.
Anyone can now buy prtg consoles, train TBR, finish t4 Delta rep in 20 days and get neutronic and Iso cannon.
Voila! a competitive PvPlayer is born.
But, wait, all those PvE only people still don't want to go anywhere near PvP?
And PvE people still favor full FAW antiproton or Galor beams over weak TRIBBLE torpedos?
So what is the problem?
PvP community FAILED.
-unable to adapt and enjoy without having most powerful healer, SCI or TAC setup
-Wells, Recluse, Bug. Team TIF, Theta, EWP. C/P bug setups.
-unable to take defeat by same or even worse setups they use without crying
-Opening the thread: XY is broken. Using even worse XXY same night.
-Write SRO is broken in one thread. Recommending 5 SRO in other.
-number crunching, trolling, whining, griefing, pseudo-elitism and general ego masturbation on forums.
-it's game's fault because average PvPer is an obnoxious jerk is the motto.
PvP community failed. individually and generally.
Unfortunately a large chunk of this stems from a problem within the community of "I don't like x, so x is obviously broken." You can replace "i don't like x" with "x is incredibly imbalanced vs other game powers" and it still holds the same bad concept at heart.
Ages ago, the PvP community was all about trying. I'll give you some examples. I've been a panda since season 3. I quit around season 6. During that time, we had rules, set in stone in the fleet that we all agreed on. No one ran cheese. AMS and Theta were literal sins before the PvP gods. More than 1 copy of SS, even lv 1, on a team was against everything we stood for. SNB doffs were for scrubs and if you were caught using them, your fleet tag might suddenly vanish. These times, and the times before these, were the golden age of sto pvp. The community was more mature. There was the occasional drama/forum feud/kerrat juicy drama/fed vs kdf but at the end of the day, no one really got butt hurt from losing because all the matches were as fair and cheese free as possible.
After my 2 year break...lol. Cheese or be cheesed. There is no more "fair contest" because everyones idea of "fair" and "broken" are influence by their own person set in stone refuse to change/adapt play styles. The ocean of tears particle manipulator created was hilarious, but lets be honest. Gonna play a sci as a support non-heal roll? Ya either have it or ya don't. This seems to be cryptics new "content". You either have x, or you don't. The advantages that x give just keep getting larger, and larger and it puts it into a situation where regardless of how much power creep you toss onto the game, it breaks down into 3-5 ships tops that are the staple ships for pve/pvp rolls. Wells and bugs aren't even holding their staying power at this point. Inflatable Dps scims are the only ship that seems to have staying power through all this creep at this point, and the recluses that carry them. Oh and B'rel + Minimax will always be a match made in heaven. So I guess you can say out of everything pre DR, minimax and scimitars were all that really showed their staying power through the power dump that is intel/t6.
The point of all of this? Cryptics gone from creating some hilarious stuff that a more mature community had no real issues with working around in the past. Now the power creep is more like a power shopping spree and the community has degraded, on both a maturity level and a level of patience being tried for so long (by cryptic) that pvp has degraded into a **** spam cheese fest where people only complain when they get out cheesed. But, you have new $30 dollar ships to buy every 3-6 months now + lockbox/lobi just so you can use them for 10 mins, then either delete them because they're not one of the top 3 ships you actually will use, or leave them sitting in active ship roster for ages till you need room and delete them, or pay cryptic more money so you can hoard ships. Cryptic is essentially the universe's largest roll players, unfortunately, this years cosplay is the ferengi.
Comments
skill cant save you anymore, skill was a hard counter to vape, and control, and everything else. using the counters and adapting was always possible in the past, and nothing was so over the top that it couldn't be overcome. now this is not true. no amount of skill can save you from ionic chain stun, neutronic spread 3 shots, 15k TBR tics and iso cannon, surgical strike vaping you in 1 weapons cycle with DHCs, these are all show stopping problems that cant be overcome. normal pvp now basically has the problem shuttle pvp has, stuff is plain imbalanced when used there, period. with no one holding back or self nerfing, no meaningful, satisfying interactions are possible anymore.
I think we've all seen folks snap with one update/change or another along the way. They're fine, maybe not fine but they're fine for them...then one day...bam...ayup, meh.
The sheer number of bugs with DR, those introduced and those left unfixed from before it launched...I just didn't want to look at anything anymore. Every where you'd look to figure out how something worked...almost guaranteed to find a bug. Became a big ol' mess of TRIBBLE it and TRIBBLE Cryptic.
Have to wonder what PvP would be like if even half of the bugs out there were addressed...
...probably the same, but at least I wouldn't be tripping over them.
So yeah, D'Angelo and his Improvements for 2015...can start with fixing TRIBBLE that's been broken since 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and maybe try not to introduce all sorts of broken TRIBBLE in 2015.
very likely that IS their sense of fixing stuff lulz :mad:....
or in other words:
"it's dead jim, kill it off!!!"... cryptic-logic..... cryptogic, yeah. that's the word
but, but, people here brainstormed for years to find a way to make the PvP newb-friendly.
Now it's here.
Anyone can now buy prtg consoles, train TBR, finish t4 Delta rep in 20 days and get neutronic and Iso cannon.
Voila! a competitive PvPlayer is born.
But, wait, all those PvE only people still don't want to go anywhere near PvP?
And PvE people still favor full FAW antiproton or Galor beams over weak TRIBBLE torpedos?
So what is the problem?
PvP community FAILED.
-unable to adapt and enjoy without having most powerful healer, SCI or TAC setup
-Wells, Recluse, Bug. Team TIF, Theta, EWP. C/P bug setups.
-unable to take defeat by same or even worse setups they use without crying
-Opening the thread: XY is broken. Using even worse XXY same night.
-Write SRO is broken in one thread. Recommending 5 SRO in other.
-number crunching, trolling, whining, griefing, pseudo-elitism and general ego masturbation on forums.
-it's game's fault because average PvPer is an obnoxious jerk is the motto.
PvP community failed. individually and generally.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Unfortunately a large chunk of this stems from a problem within the community of "I don't like x, so x is obviously broken." You can replace "i don't like x" with "x is incredibly imbalanced vs other game powers" and it still holds the same bad concept at heart.
Ages ago, the PvP community was all about trying. I'll give you some examples. I've been a panda since season 3. I quit around season 6. During that time, we had rules, set in stone in the fleet that we all agreed on. No one ran cheese. AMS and Theta were literal sins before the PvP gods. More than 1 copy of SS, even lv 1, on a team was against everything we stood for. SNB doffs were for scrubs and if you were caught using them, your fleet tag might suddenly vanish. These times, and the times before these, were the golden age of sto pvp. The community was more mature. There was the occasional drama/forum feud/kerrat juicy drama/fed vs kdf but at the end of the day, no one really got butt hurt from losing because all the matches were as fair and cheese free as possible.
After my 2 year break...lol. Cheese or be cheesed. There is no more "fair contest" because everyones idea of "fair" and "broken" are influence by their own person set in stone refuse to change/adapt play styles. The ocean of tears particle manipulator created was hilarious, but lets be honest. Gonna play a sci as a support non-heal roll? Ya either have it or ya don't. This seems to be cryptics new "content". You either have x, or you don't. The advantages that x give just keep getting larger, and larger and it puts it into a situation where regardless of how much power creep you toss onto the game, it breaks down into 3-5 ships tops that are the staple ships for pve/pvp rolls. Wells and bugs aren't even holding their staying power at this point. Inflatable Dps scims are the only ship that seems to have staying power through all this creep at this point, and the recluses that carry them. Oh and B'rel + Minimax will always be a match made in heaven. So I guess you can say out of everything pre DR, minimax and scimitars were all that really showed their staying power through the power dump that is intel/t6.
The point of all of this? Cryptics gone from creating some hilarious stuff that a more mature community had no real issues with working around in the past. Now the power creep is more like a power shopping spree and the community has degraded, on both a maturity level and a level of patience being tried for so long (by cryptic) that pvp has degraded into a **** spam cheese fest where people only complain when they get out cheesed. But, you have new $30 dollar ships to buy every 3-6 months now + lockbox/lobi just so you can use them for 10 mins, then either delete them because they're not one of the top 3 ships you actually will use, or leave them sitting in active ship roster for ages till you need room and delete them, or pay cryptic more money so you can hoard ships. Cryptic is essentially the universe's largest roll players, unfortunately, this years cosplay is the ferengi.
also, cryptic would put work into pvp before it actually makes npcs more complex then hitpoint sponges, pve will NEVER be good ether.