Yes, it does. It demonstrates that the game was designed with specific differences between male and female in mind.
No, it does not. There's no correlation at all. It does however imply that the characters were designed simplistically, probably with just what everyone's used to seeing, but even that is an assumption.
You merely asserted that "the game is this way because X". You haven't demonstrated anything.
Unless you're playing along in a solo instance, others will see your character. (...)
Well, I personally don't want to see other peoples uniform creations. I think they are hideous and I'd like Starfleet officers to wear Starfleet uniforms. Obviously though I don't get what I desire.
What's the difference?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The difference I was referring to was between the words "others" and "I". One is plural. The other is singular. I don't profess to speak for anyone. I'm simply offering a potential point of view.
Okay, sure. But why is it so important to oppose options for other people just because some players would see them? Why does it matter at all?
Call it an assertion or whatever you want. I could really give a hoot. There is no question the game was designed with differences between males and females. Clearly a computer didn't magically do that on it's own. Some human somewhere designed it that way.
Yes, it is an assertion. And I'm not questioning that the game was designed with sexual dimorphism in mind. This thread isn't about that. It is about giving both sexes options that have absolutely nothing to do with their biology.
Personally, I don't care one way or the other if some folk want to make women with beards and men with pigtails and whatnot. I just don't see it happening. I'll go out on a limb and speculate this isn't something that's very high on the Devs "to-do" list, if it's there at all. I'll also speculate that it isn't an insignificant amount of work to do what is being requested, and we all know how the Devs love their ROI.
But you argued as if there were objective reasons for why this request/suggestion should not happen. If the reason is "others might be offended by what your character looks" then that argument doesn't hold water as I demonstrated above. And if the reason is "should not happen because it is currently not implemented and/or it would take effort and time to do so" then we can't make suggestions/requests at all.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's probably best to just let it go, Targ. He never demonstrated any objective reason, and he just said that he doesn't care, which is really all I want from my fellow players on this issue.
It's probably best to just let it go, Targ. He never demonstrated any objective reason, and he just said that he doesn't care, which is really all I want from my fellow players on this issue.
I for one am not out to make enemies.
Oh, I'm not trying to harp on anything really. I was genuinely curious how those reasons would look like and if "others might be offended" is the only objective reason given than there is no objective reason at all and thus it comes down to subjective reasons and those mostly fit what I posted back on page 2 of the thread. The OPs suggestions just bears too much "content" that many people are "too uncomfortable" with
Re-read my last post. They are my personal speculations, but I'd wager those are your objective reasons why this isn't going to happen.
In your last posting, yes. But the "others have to see it" was made before. But in case you marked that as your personal opinion as well I want to apologize that I misinterpreted or misread what you were saying, no hard feelings.
Like I wrote above, I was genuinely curious how objective reasons may look. I think we can safely assume that there are no objective reasons at all at this point
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
So, we should be denied choices, because someone else could be offended by our characters's look? Yep, sounds like legit reason.
I guess I should go start screaming reeeally loudly, how much those big-TRIBBLE, skimpy barbie squads offend me, maybe Cryptic will remove those as well? Hahahahahaha... :D
PS: Incredible how <peep-peep-peep> people can be.
PPS: Done here, there's new stuff on Tribble to test, that's more productive than dealing with <peep-peep> people on forum, in fact, posting in this topic "arguing" here before was only because I had nothing more productive to do.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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(...)
I guess I should go start screaming reeeally loudly, how much those big-TRIBBLE, skimpy barbie squads offend me, maybe Cryptic will remove those as well? Hahahahahaha... :D
(...)
Unlikely, as the depiction of those seemingly leads to an instant success in the official screenshot contests
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Unlikely, as the depiction of those seemingly leads to an instant success in the official screenshot contests
Good point.. and sad one too. :P
Also, by the comment about those skimpy barbies offending me - I only pointed out how absurd that argument, about restricting others from more options, because someone else was personally offended by others' character's appearance, was. I personally don't care about what others have on their characters. I mean, I do roll my eyes, laugh with my friend, but I'm not an a-hole to restrict people from more options, even if I personally find them dumb.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Also, by the comment about those skimpy barbies offending me - I only pointed out how absurd that argument, about restricting others from more options, because someone else was personally offended by others' character's appearance, was. I personally don't care about what others have on their characters. I mean, I do roll my eyes, laugh with my friend, but I'm not an a-hole to restrict people from more options, even if I personally find them dumb.
I went that route with my comment about character costumes, which is in the end the same thing as the character's bodies are merely extensions of the costume they wear. So someone being offended by it cannot be a reasonable argument in an MMO that offers customization in the first place.
In the end I personally think, like I stated way back on page 2, that a suggestion like this would hurt quite a lot of people's personal expectations of things just like Star Trek had it's real life issues back in the days with depicting a black woman as a starship officer or certain RPGs recieving flak becaue they offerthe possibility of homosexual in-game "romances". I could see that Cryptic would not want to risk those issues, but that's the only reason I could think about.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
For example, Romulan females have no options for buzz-cut and the shaved hair, even though I did see it on female Romulan NPC's. I see no reason why any hairstyle/costume should be gender locked at all...
its annoying as all hell to not be able to use the buzzcut on my roms, despite seeing all the nps wearing it.
fix it cryptic.
Whatever is the right way for STO to go, in regards of social and sexual mores; keep in mind that Starfleet, and the most of the other "f(r)actions" in the game (R.R.F., K.D.F., T.S., S.31., etc.), are martial organisations, and still have some form of standards within current cultural norms. In a sense, most of the values that were shown to exist in TNG/Voyager/DS9, likely are still fairly dominant in at least the cultural and social landscape of the Federation in 2410/2414, as many of the basic social ideas of the 1960s/70s/80s, are still in play in both 2010 and 2014.
Whatever is the right way for STO to go, in regards of social and sexual mores; keep in mind that Starfleet, and the most of the other "f(r)actions" in the game (R.R.F., K.D.F., T.S., S.31., etc.), are martial organisations, and still have some form of standards within current cultural norms. In a sense, most of the values that were shown to exist in TNG/Voyager/DS9, likely are still fairly dominant in at least the cultural and social landscape of the Federation in 2410/2414, as many of the basic social ideas of the 1960s/70s/80s, are still in play in both 2010 and 2014.
Indeed, that makes sense. But one would think that they(Earth/humans) would be a lot more tolerant of other personalities and expressions despite lack of change within cultural norms.
Indeed, that makes sense. But one would think that they(Earth/humans) would be a lot more tolerant of other personalities and expressions despite lack of change within cultural norms.
Starfleet seems to have kept to strict dress codes with even mundane accessories. Hell, even in TNG, they wouldn't let ENS Ro wear her earring when they first introduced her. Starfleet always seemed more martial in their bearing even while they presenting themselves as the modern equivalent of NOAA with guns. Of course, there is always the skant to throw a wrench into that argument...
Starfleet seems to have kept to strict dress codes with even mundane accessories. Hell, even in TNG, they wouldn't let ENS Ro wear her earring when they first introduced her. Starfleet always seemed more martial in their bearing even while they presenting themselves as the modern equivalent of NOAA with guns. Of course, there is always the skant to throw a wrench into that argument...
Even so, considering that the uniform customization aspect of gameplay is included in storyline continuity, that may well have changed.
I can understand why this should happen but then I look at Millennium City Wal-Mart and think about what players can pull off in STO now.
"So, we should be denied choices, because someone else could be offended by our characters's look? Yep, sounds like legit reason."
You may think that is not a legit reason and you won't use this freedom for racist or sexist reasons but the fear of pugging with someone boy (girl?) from the TRIBBLE planet makes me want to scream out NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Out of Cryptic's games STO has one of the most controlled games, should the ties be loosed a little? Maybe. Should we let players do what ever they want to do?
You may think that is not a legit reason and you won't use this freedom for racist or sexist reasons but the fear of pugging with someone boy (girl?) from the TRIBBLE planet makes me want to scream out NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
If that was directed at myself, please don't put words into my mouth.
If it was consistent with the storyline continuity, I would have no objections to "TRIBBLE" aliens. If someone wants to express themselves as racist or sexist in some way, I personally would not be offended. It's just a form of expression in a game, there is no threat to anyone in it from such things. Besides, I'm not the type to jump to conclusions, nor to judge a book by its cover.
If that was directed at myself, please don't put words into my mouth.
If it was consistent with the storyline continuity, I would have no objections to "TRIBBLE" aliens. If someone wants to express themselves as racist or sexist in some way, I personally would not be offended. It's just a form of expression in a game, there is no threat to anyone in it from such things. Besides, I'm not the type to jump to conclusions.
It was not directed at you just I seen what too much freedom can do to a MMO and that is pretty scary to me.
Also the TRIBBLE bit came from something I saw in Champions. That is one of the more "sane" things there.
And I'm remembering old Drozana and I don't just mean how it looked. Too much freedom and we get that back and I hope that never happens in STO or any game
It was not directed at you just I seen what too much freedom can do to a MMO and that is pretty scary to me.
Also the TRIBBLE bit came from something I saw in Champions. That is one of the more "sane" things there.
And I'm remembering old Drozana and I don't just mean how it looked. Too much freedom and we get that back and I hope that never happens in STO or any game
Depends on the freedom imbued. What would the freedom imply? What consequences would there be? Not every freedom is on the same level.
Also, IMHO the customization in Champions, at least where costumes are concerned, is sooo awesome. Sure, there might be an objectionable thing or two, but so what? It's a game. Ignore it and have fun. Besides, what if that player is doing it to troll? Any reaction to them would be feeding them.
Anyway, I just disagree that anyone should be concerned with how they express themselves, good or bad, unless that expression actually harms someone else with said expression.
Comments
No, it does not. There's no correlation at all. It does however imply that the characters were designed simplistically, probably with just what everyone's used to seeing, but even that is an assumption.
You merely asserted that "the game is this way because X". You haven't demonstrated anything.
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Well, I personally don't want to see other peoples uniform creations. I think they are hideous and I'd like Starfleet officers to wear Starfleet uniforms. Obviously though I don't get what I desire.
What's the difference?
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Yes, it is an assertion. And I'm not questioning that the game was designed with sexual dimorphism in mind. This thread isn't about that. It is about giving both sexes options that have absolutely nothing to do with their biology.
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But you argued as if there were objective reasons for why this request/suggestion should not happen. If the reason is "others might be offended by what your character looks" then that argument doesn't hold water as I demonstrated above. And if the reason is "should not happen because it is currently not implemented and/or it would take effort and time to do so" then we can't make suggestions/requests at all.
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I for one am not out to make enemies.
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Oh, I'm not trying to harp on anything really. I was genuinely curious how those reasons would look like and if "others might be offended" is the only objective reason given than there is no objective reason at all and thus it comes down to subjective reasons and those mostly fit what I posted back on page 2 of the thread. The OPs suggestions just bears too much "content" that many people are "too uncomfortable" with
In your last posting, yes. But the "others have to see it" was made before. But in case you marked that as your personal opinion as well I want to apologize that I misinterpreted or misread what you were saying, no hard feelings.
Like I wrote above, I was genuinely curious how objective reasons may look. I think we can safely assume that there are no objective reasons at all at this point
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So, we should be denied choices, because someone else could be offended by our characters's look? Yep, sounds like legit reason.
I guess I should go start screaming reeeally loudly, how much those big-TRIBBLE, skimpy barbie squads offend me, maybe Cryptic will remove those as well? Hahahahahaha...
PS: Incredible how <peep-peep-peep> people can be.
PPS: Done here, there's new stuff on Tribble to test, that's more productive than dealing with <peep-peep> people on forum, in fact, posting in this topic "arguing" here before was only because I had nothing more productive to do.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Unlikely, as the depiction of those seemingly leads to an instant success in the official screenshot contests
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Also, by the comment about those skimpy barbies offending me - I only pointed out how absurd that argument, about restricting others from more options, because someone else was personally offended by others' character's appearance, was. I personally don't care about what others have on their characters. I mean, I do roll my eyes, laugh with my friend, but I'm not an a-hole to restrict people from more options, even if I personally find them dumb.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
I went that route with my comment about character costumes, which is in the end the same thing as the character's bodies are merely extensions of the costume they wear. So someone being offended by it cannot be a reasonable argument in an MMO that offers customization in the first place.
In the end I personally think, like I stated way back on page 2, that a suggestion like this would hurt quite a lot of people's personal expectations of things just like Star Trek had it's real life issues back in the days with depicting a black woman as a starship officer or certain RPGs recieving flak becaue they offerthe possibility of homosexual in-game "romances". I could see that Cryptic would not want to risk those issues, but that's the only reason I could think about.
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All stances are shared except 3 that are gender specific:
Seductive
Cute
Feminine
So all this talk about keep gender specific stances like males only males doesn't apply here.
Ashkrik you really need to stop making up Jewish conspiracies up when there is none.
Jewish conspiracy? LOL.
fix it cryptic.
free jkname
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I'm not Catholic.
It was a joke.
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Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
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Starfleet seems to have kept to strict dress codes with even mundane accessories. Hell, even in TNG, they wouldn't let ENS Ro wear her earring when they first introduced her. Starfleet always seemed more martial in their bearing even while they presenting themselves as the modern equivalent of NOAA with guns. Of course, there is always the skant to throw a wrench into that argument...
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"So, we should be denied choices, because someone else could be offended by our characters's look? Yep, sounds like legit reason."
You may think that is not a legit reason and you won't use this freedom for racist or sexist reasons but the fear of pugging with someone boy (girl?) from the TRIBBLE planet makes me want to scream out NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Out of Cryptic's games STO has one of the most controlled games, should the ties be loosed a little? Maybe. Should we let players do what ever they want to do?
......
If it was consistent with the storyline continuity, I would have no objections to "TRIBBLE" aliens. If someone wants to express themselves as racist or sexist in some way, I personally would not be offended. It's just a form of expression in a game, there is no threat to anyone in it from such things. Besides, I'm not the type to jump to conclusions, nor to judge a book by its cover.
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It was not directed at you just I seen what too much freedom can do to a MMO and that is pretty scary to me.
Also the TRIBBLE bit came from something I saw in Champions. That is one of the more "sane" things there.
And I'm remembering old Drozana and I don't just mean how it looked. Too much freedom and we get that back and I hope that never happens in STO or any game
Also, IMHO the customization in Champions, at least where costumes are concerned, is sooo awesome. Sure, there might be an objectionable thing or two, but so what? It's a game. Ignore it and have fun. Besides, what if that player is doing it to troll? Any reaction to them would be feeding them.
Anyway, I just disagree that anyone should be concerned with how they express themselves, good or bad, unless that expression actually harms someone else with said expression.
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