I'd very much like to see gender-neutral character customisation. Men have the right to wear skirts and make-up, just as women have the right to wear formal outfits which cover most of their skin, and everyone should have the right to whichever stance they want. Star Trek Online already pretty much leads the world in terms of character customisation, so why not add some ultra-progressiveness into the mix?
STO doesn't lead Cryptic games for customization. Champions Online blows it out of the water.
And in CO, men can wear skirts and makeup, and women can wear a suit and tie.
There is no in-universe justification, particularly in the UFP, for gender-locking hairstyles etc.
Immersion concerns: so you might run into a captain in ESD wearing a sun dress? Tell me again how a Vulcan Fleet Admiral wearing what looks like a nightgown, doesn't.
I can absolutely respect arguments against that are grounded in practical concerns, such as "I'd rather the devs focus on fixing bugs" or "we would like to offer this option but it is not without a cost in dev time".
Personally I would think that expanding customization options is inherently capable of being monetized.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
First off, before I go off ranting and dissecting posts, let me preface what I'm aiming here some, to hopefully prevent some "misunderstandings"...
From what I gathered in the 15+ pages of posts before the "usual Tovan stuff" started it's requisite derail, the thread went from "allow us to mix/match hairstyles and have guys strut in 'cute, feminine and seductive' stances" to "full on give us the ability to create any character we'd like, including those that would look straight out of the "Japanese Anime Levels of Androgynous confusion" as to male/female (and maybe age).
My focus is strictly on the latter portion of the conversation - aka why "we" can't have "Japanese Anime Levels of Androgynous" looks, such as an "effeminate" male or "females that aren't nigh-barbie-curvy"
Childish looking character + risian swimsuit + one mis tell to local = STO is now in the crosshairs of Capital Hill and the life of STO could end.
Pretty sure this could never happen but I like looking at the worst thing that could happen. It is nice when it does not happen and it if does I'm ready to handle it somewhat.
Take the character depicted in this quote. However, instead of Risa, take the screenshot on Drozana during the heights of the "roleplay" Drozana's famous for. Watch Congress and/or ESRB "go to town" with that one...
Yes, that situation is possible. But it would be a misunderstanding at best, and it doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Again, not every freedom is on the same level. Even though I see nothing wrong with that situation, I recognize that people who have the power to shut an MMO down do, and that would be a good justification to urge people not to do that. I do believe that freedom of speech and expression is a very good moral guideline, but recognizing that your actions could harm others and restricting yourself accordingly is a good idea.
Remember, this is the internets. What I emphasized with my selective bolding of your quote seemingly doesn't exist for some people on this here anonymous internet anymore.
Until such time that the internet becomes known for it's "well thought out and universal applications of self-restraint", there will be "issues" with the "enforced restraints" attempting to prohibit the most egregious violators of "moral guidelines" vs. those who want to "sanely" approach the borders of the "restraint's limits"...
And I haven't even broached the concept of "recognizing that your actions could harm others then intentionally doing such to bring about strife and/or cause the denial of enjoyment to those others - commonly referenced as "trolling" - or the fact that certain politicians "love" making a "misunderstanding" into a "moral crisis that needs immediate correction for the safety of our society and world."
But again, nothing to do with this thread. Anything I'm suggestion in the OP of this thread? It would not end STO. It's completely harmless. And to honor freedom of speech and expression, expressing oneself in the way that the individual chooses is more important than the possibility that it may offend a few people if they see it.
There are many things that I'd rather not see in STO, and I do see them regularly. But I respect my fellow players' choice to express themselves in that manner, and I would support their right to do so. After all, it might be my turn to wish to express myself in a new way, and I'd want support from them. Fair's fair.
As I said - the "simple stuff" of this thread - hairstyles in particular - shouldn't be a problem. It's that more complicated "Japanese Anime Androgyny" that poses many more issues, and while I may respect those who wish to use it for "sane" purposes, the internets is sadly full of people ready to abuse anything they can get their hands on and therefore prevention is the order of the day...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
We "can't" have "Japanese Anime Levels of Androgynous" characters because some people:
Care way too much about other people's (characters') appearance?
Have an unhealthy obsession about the gender of video game characters?
Hate anime?
Can't mind their own business?
All of the above?
:cool:
Dangit, the thrust of what I hoped to get across didn't make it. My stance on your points, in order:
1. As long as the game maintains a T rating, there should be no interference with what a character looks like.
Honestly, I'm not a fan, at all, of the "pure color mirror outfits", especially the ones meant to look "beach ready". I'm not a fan that periodically the majority of the player population of First City is "native clad pale Orions". I cringed every time I saw an evening gown during an STF. Not once did I file a complaint, because of the "to each their own" principle. All these looks (well, except the most extreme Native Orion Outfits, but even then that level of coverage is frequently portrayed in bad B-movies) are definitely within the boundaries of the T rating.
2. I'm not sure if the concerns I portrayed were over those with an "unhealthy" obsession over gender, and more recognition of what joejing was saying. For better or worse, society has "preprogrammed" us with certain "stereotypes", that the Development team takes advantage of to encourage "split second identification" of the in-game objects - whether said stereotypes/caricatures are based around the "bigger is badder" or "more gear = more rank" principles, or the "Men look like Bruce Willis / Arnie, Women look like Cindy Crawford / Barbie" concept.
Sadly, however, society tends to identify the androgynous / asexual (ie, doesn't have all the showy bits and a not-disctinctly-curvy) look, especially in a "shorter package" more with childhood than dwarfism (no offense meant to the shorter people) - and when combined "out of context" with your #4, that's where the issues begin.
3. I just thought that "Japanese Androgynous Anime Look" sounded a lot catchier than "borderline asexual without all the 'stereotypical' identification features". As such, anime hate only comes into play when some dude attempts to make a, say, Trowa Barton or Tuxedo Mask (two highly androgynous males from anime that enjoyed significant American airtime and therefore recognition) and someone complains about the cloning (much like some complain about the 50,000th fake imported character from whatever source)...
4. As I said, combine the "quick stereotypical identifications that might lead someone to think 'child' over 'dwarf'" in #2 with bonehead netizens (aka trolls that intentionally will abuse this ability to make that "child") and agenda-pushing public figures who will throw context and reasoned argument out the window to get their way, and suddenly you have the entire reason why we're not given the "Japanese Anime Androgynous look"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Since Cryptic has added Intelligence officers (aka Spies) might be simpler to just add a new costume slot that lets you choose a different species/gender like they did in some episodes of the shows, instead of Cryptic having to adjust every customization option to different character models.
Alternatively, could also make it so you choose one of you alts and it uses their name, info and base appearance with customizable uniform when you have that costume selected, and only make it toggleable at a particular NPC. You'd still have your @name, so OOC you'd be easily recognizable as the same person.
+ for players: more customization
+ for cryptic: people more likely to buy c-store outfits from factions other than their main's (which could also lead to more KDF and Romulan outfits being created)
As I said - the "simple stuff" of this thread - hairstyles in particular - shouldn't be a problem. It's that more complicated "Japanese Anime Androgyny" that poses many more issues, and while I may respect those who wish to use it for "sane" purposes, the internets is sadly full of people ready to abuse anything they can get their hands on and therefore prevention is the order of the day...
What issues would that pose now? How exactly could it be "abused"? This is what I don't understand.
And for what it's worth, my characters would definitely not "suffer" from any androgyny regardless. *shrug*
It would be nice to have a colour code field, like the one we have for font colour here, then we can finally make tops, trousers and boots the same colour.
More options are better. Non-discrimination is Star Fleet/UFP canon, including gender related cases. Cryptic doesn't seem to prude on it either, considering CO. So, the only consideration here should be feasability of not breaking the game, and licensing issues (again, non-discrimination is canon, so shouldn't be a problem)
Also, making as many clothing/hair styles/etc cross faction would be nice. STO has sooooo much fantastic art, we shouldn't be limiting people's creativity at this point. Maybe rep unlocks? Tailor Reputation System? idk, just spit ballin' ideas. I just know that there is a wealth of untapped potential.
Because it's the sound that steel shod boots make on the deck plating of a real warship. As opposed [to] the cushy carpeting on the Federation luxury liners.
Under no circumstances do I support this thread and I have said this more than once. I like how non-liberal and non-politically correct this game has been so far (I am a conservative and homophobic) and I do not want anything I have heard in this thread in the game.
Disregard this thread devs
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Under no circumstances do I support this thread and I have said this more than once. I like how non-liberal and non-politically correct this game has been so far (I am a conservative and homophobic) and I do not want anything I have heard in this thread in the game.
Disregard this thread devs
This isn't about being "liberal" or "politically correct" at all. It's about being more fair.
Comments
And in CO, men can wear skirts and makeup, and women can wear a suit and tie.
There is no in-universe justification, particularly in the UFP, for gender-locking hairstyles etc.
Immersion concerns: so you might run into a captain in ESD wearing a sun dress? Tell me again how a Vulcan Fleet Admiral wearing what looks like a nightgown, doesn't.
I can absolutely respect arguments against that are grounded in practical concerns, such as "I'd rather the devs focus on fixing bugs" or "we would like to offer this option but it is not without a cost in dev time".
Personally I would think that expanding customization options is inherently capable of being monetized.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
From what I gathered in the 15+ pages of posts before the "usual Tovan stuff" started it's requisite derail, the thread went from "allow us to mix/match hairstyles and have guys strut in 'cute, feminine and seductive' stances" to "full on give us the ability to create any character we'd like, including those that would look straight out of the "Japanese Anime Levels of Androgynous confusion" as to male/female (and maybe age).
My focus is strictly on the latter portion of the conversation - aka why "we" can't have "Japanese Anime Levels of Androgynous" looks, such as an "effeminate" male or "females that aren't nigh-barbie-curvy"
Take the character depicted in this quote. However, instead of Risa, take the screenshot on Drozana during the heights of the "roleplay" Drozana's famous for. Watch Congress and/or ESRB "go to town" with that one...
Remember, this is the internets. What I emphasized with my selective bolding of your quote seemingly doesn't exist for some people on this here anonymous internet anymore.
Until such time that the internet becomes known for it's "well thought out and universal applications of self-restraint", there will be "issues" with the "enforced restraints" attempting to prohibit the most egregious violators of "moral guidelines" vs. those who want to "sanely" approach the borders of the "restraint's limits"...
And I haven't even broached the concept of "recognizing that your actions could harm others then intentionally doing such to bring about strife and/or cause the denial of enjoyment to those others - commonly referenced as "trolling" - or the fact that certain politicians "love" making a "misunderstanding" into a "moral crisis that needs immediate correction for the safety of our society and world."
As I said - the "simple stuff" of this thread - hairstyles in particular - shouldn't be a problem. It's that more complicated "Japanese Anime Androgyny" that poses many more issues, and while I may respect those who wish to use it for "sane" purposes, the internets is sadly full of people ready to abuse anything they can get their hands on and therefore prevention is the order of the day...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
:cool:
Dangit, the thrust of what I hoped to get across didn't make it. My stance on your points, in order:
1. As long as the game maintains a T rating, there should be no interference with what a character looks like.
Honestly, I'm not a fan, at all, of the "pure color mirror outfits", especially the ones meant to look "beach ready". I'm not a fan that periodically the majority of the player population of First City is "native clad pale Orions". I cringed every time I saw an evening gown during an STF. Not once did I file a complaint, because of the "to each their own" principle. All these looks (well, except the most extreme Native Orion Outfits, but even then that level of coverage is frequently portrayed in bad B-movies) are definitely within the boundaries of the T rating.
2. I'm not sure if the concerns I portrayed were over those with an "unhealthy" obsession over gender, and more recognition of what joejing was saying. For better or worse, society has "preprogrammed" us with certain "stereotypes", that the Development team takes advantage of to encourage "split second identification" of the in-game objects - whether said stereotypes/caricatures are based around the "bigger is badder" or "more gear = more rank" principles, or the "Men look like Bruce Willis / Arnie, Women look like Cindy Crawford / Barbie" concept.
Sadly, however, society tends to identify the androgynous / asexual (ie, doesn't have all the showy bits and a not-disctinctly-curvy) look, especially in a "shorter package" more with childhood than dwarfism (no offense meant to the shorter people) - and when combined "out of context" with your #4, that's where the issues begin.
3. I just thought that "Japanese Androgynous Anime Look" sounded a lot catchier than "borderline asexual without all the 'stereotypical' identification features". As such, anime hate only comes into play when some dude attempts to make a, say, Trowa Barton or Tuxedo Mask (two highly androgynous males from anime that enjoyed significant American airtime and therefore recognition) and someone complains about the cloning (much like some complain about the 50,000th fake imported character from whatever source)...
4. As I said, combine the "quick stereotypical identifications that might lead someone to think 'child' over 'dwarf'" in #2 with bonehead netizens (aka trolls that intentionally will abuse this ability to make that "child") and agenda-pushing public figures who will throw context and reasoned argument out the window to get their way, and suddenly you have the entire reason why we're not given the "Japanese Anime Androgynous look"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Alternatively, could also make it so you choose one of you alts and it uses their name, info and base appearance with customizable uniform when you have that costume selected, and only make it toggleable at a particular NPC. You'd still have your @name, so OOC you'd be easily recognizable as the same person.
+ for players: more customization
+ for cryptic: people more likely to buy c-store outfits from factions other than their main's (which could also lead to more KDF and Romulan outfits being created)
This. But for some reason, it's more taboo in a game that's based on a utopian future for humanity...
What issues would that pose now? How exactly could it be "abused"? This is what I don't understand.
And for what it's worth, my characters would definitely not "suffer" from any androgyny regardless. *shrug*
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
It would be nice to have a colour code field, like the one we have for font colour here, then we can finally make tops, trousers and boots the same colour.
Also, making as many clothing/hair styles/etc cross faction would be nice. STO has sooooo much fantastic art, we shouldn't be limiting people's creativity at this point. Maybe rep unlocks? Tailor Reputation System? idk, just spit ballin' ideas. I just know that there is a wealth of untapped potential.
Disregard this thread devs
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial