Because each time someone proposes that the options shouldn't be closed off to one gender or another, this ape**** discussions happen, with some people being against it, because of whatever reason, usually being prompted by personal beliefs & expectations of one or the other gender, or thinking that it's some political agenda here, when there's none... that's why they'd be scared away.
I wish people simply took this as proposal for more options for everyone, as that's all there is to it... sigh...
People always act over-defensive. I fail to see what issue there would be with the sharing of ideas besides that.
That is the whole point of a forum...for both sides to express their opinions on why something should or should not happen..
There really isn't 'both sides', there's the ones that want it, and people that don't want them to have it. If it was ice cream it'd be clear you should just stop trying to stop people having their fun.
There really isn't 'both sides', there's the ones that want it, and people that don't want them to have it. If it was ice cream it'd be clear you should just stop trying to stop people having their fun.
Yeah, this sums it up pretty simply. We don't want this personal beliefs/political discussion here. We just want more options available, for those who'd want them. The 'other side' just doesn't want us to have the option for whatever.
PS: A quick slap-up of a mock for my character on Tribble, just to prove my point I could easily replicate my current's character's look on a male model, minus the parts I'd not want on it, ie the curves... if there's ever re-gender token, I'm gonna be itching hardcore, as limitations of the female model are just... zzZZzZzz....
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
By the way Orange, does this mean I should call you an antagonist if you disagree with an idea of mine I post ?
No. You can call me an antagonist when I start having conviction to my positions. Which I hope I never do.
I do wish to understand what people believe or support and why, and I'm open to being convinced that those are better than the beliefs and positions I hold. If I disagree with you, it's only because I find reason to, not because you hold a view that opposes my agenda.
And for the record, I fully support your Caitian/Ferasan ideas. Yes, even some of the sex-specific ones.
No. You can call me an antagonist when I start having conviction to my positions. Which I hope I never do.
I do wish to understand what people believe or support and why, and I'm open to being convinced that those are better than the beliefs and positions I hold. If I disagree with you, it's only because I find reason to, not because you hold a view that opposes my agenda.
And for the record, I fully support your Caitian/Ferasan ideas. Yes, even some of the sex-specific ones.
With all being said, the changes to models, both male and female on Tribble are in good direction. I love them & hope that the trend will continue & none of this negativity is directed at JoeJing/devs, rather than at people who'd want to force their beliefs onto others, while forbidding people from having a choice.
Imo it could use a bit of smoothing of the upper part and the waist too, so the curves between waist and upper part disappear altogether, but, definitelly a step in right direction, both with the waist size adjustment slider and smaller bust size too.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Still unsure why you are going on about this "negativity" going towards the devs..
There is no negativity and why would it be going to them anyway?
The thread has turned, sorry to say, into certain two individuals spitting out their beliefs in terms of gender TRIBBLE & horrible negative bitchfest. If you want to claim the thread is positive, you are a bit delusional. This thread has turned a simple request into a disaster. It makes me realy sad. Just sayin'.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
The thread has turned, sorry to say, into certain two individuals spitting out their beliefs in terms of gender TRIBBLE & horrible negative bitchfest. If you want to claim the thread is positive, you are a bit delusional. This thread has turned a simple request into a disaster. It makes me realy sad. Just sayin'.
The only people turning it negative are those who are overreacting to a disagreement. One of which would be you.
The only people turning it negative are those who are overreacting to a disagreement. One of which would be you.
I won't accept people disagreeing because of their personal beliefs, being a reason for something to not be implemented, when it's as trivial as more options for character customization. Period. There's no logical reason for not letting people have more options. In turn, I have to laugh, when we are accused of this being some sort of political agenda when there's none intended from our side, when the two of you are simply pushing yours & totally disregarding the double-standard. So.. derp.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I won't accept people disagreeing because of their personal beliefs, being a reason for something to not be implemented, when it's as trivial as more options for character customization. Period. There's no logical reason for not letting people have more options. In turn, I have to laugh, when we are accused of this being some sort of political agenda when there's none intended from our side, when the two of you are simply pushing yours & totally disregarding the double-standard. So.. derp.
I believe some cat-species shouldn't be in game at all, let alone any attention should be given to them, because of [insert stupid, personal belief opinion why not & why cat species and their customization somehow offends me on personal level]. If you don't get it how double-standard you are, then you simply won't & you simply will keep at your double-standard, no matter what.
PS: Not really against your topic, merely showing you how stupid your arguments are.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
I believe some cat-species shouldn't be in game at all, let alone any attention should be given to them, because of [insert stupid, personal belief opinion why not & why cat species and their customization somehow offends me on personal level]. If you don't get it how double-standard you are, then you simply won't & you simply will keep at your double-standard, no matter what.
PS: Not really against your topic, merely showing you how stupid your arguments are.
And if you said something like that in my thread, I would reply like I always do.
As far as stances are concerned; I'd be happy to see the "cute" stance done away with entirely. It looks totally ridiculous... Officers of Starfleet, the Empire, or the Republic should not carry themselves in such a way- male or female. The 'creature' stance looks ridiculous too, but I understand that if you're making a legitimate creature. I've got no problem with the rest of the stances being universal.
As far as 'male options' and 'female options' go, I'm fine seeing more universality between the genders- but at the same time (at least for a primary uniform) I'd like to see the options reflect some sense of professionalism...
(and don't necessarily take this as 'you must', but more 'I'd like to see'.)
And if you said something like that in my thread, I would reply like I always do.
"Sorry to hear," and move on.
Yes, well.. how about you move on from this thread then. Like, really.
You don't want more customization for both genders because of personal beliefs, fine, whatever, but that doesn't justify you wanting to not allow it to others. You'd not be forced to use them, so nothing is forced on you and your characters - as that's really where your word has any weight, as you have no right to dictate what other characters look like. I simply don't get this mentality, when selfish desires, beliefs should be limiting others from more freedom.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Did Star Trek uniforms have any skirt options beyond the skant in season 1 or 2 of TNG? I don't think they did. Aside from the brief appearance of the skant, all modern Trek uniforms have required long pants. That's a move I approve of. I love the idea of equality in uniform options: for instance, that both genders should have to wear proper pants.
Yes, well.. how about you move on from this thread then. Like, really.
You don't want more customization for both genders because of personal beliefs, fine, whatever, but that doesn't justify you wanting to not allow it to others. You'd not be forced to use them, so nothing is forced on you and your characters - as that's really where your word has any weight, as you have no right to dictate what other characters look like. I simply don't get this mentality, when selfish desires, beliefs should be limiting others from more freedom.
It's called sharing an opinion, which is what one of the main purposes of a forum is. If you cannot accept the idea that people will have differing views, then I do not know what to tell you.
It's called sharing an opinion, which is what one of the main purposes of a forum is. If you cannot accept the idea that people will have differing views, then I do not know what to tell you.
I guess I just don't get it, why someone would be so selfish/narrow-minded, to impose their personal beliefs on others in a way, that they'd be restricted from more choices as well if it was their way. The entitlement of how your beliefs should be factored in, when character models are concerned... I don't know what to tell you and be nice about it, really. :P
Someone's personal beliefs/religion/political affilation and what other TRIBBLE have you, does not give them right to direct how others want their characters to look like. It's not disagreement what you and the other fella has shown here, it's personal agenda being forced on others. Something both of you accused us of; when our proposal brings you the choice of using or not using it - yours restricts it for everyone. What's so hard to understand on this.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
The stances thing in particular is approaching an LGBT agenda. That's what I was trying to get at.
The request, as far as I can determine, is for male toons to be able to have access to the much larger range of female hairstyles as well as being able to stand seductively.
I have long hair (and am male) If I styled it in pigtails would I be using a LGBT agenda? No, I would have a stupide hairstyle that doesn't look good on me, if I stood like a berk acting seductive would I be pushing a LGBT agenda? No, I'd get a cramp and look stupid.
Cute looks TRIBBLE and makes you run like a daft sod, but it's not being removed, so it should be open for males. Or can men not look cute without being part of a LGBT agenda?
Also asking for Females to get an undershirt with an open uniform option (or allowing men to go the Kirk route and go undershirtless) is obviously pushing a LGBT agenda? :rolleyes:.
Also as far as I can tell, all male options are open to females aren't they? (Stances anyway, maybe most hairstyles).
Did Star Trek uniforms have any skirt options beyond the skant in season 1 or 2 of TNG? I don't think they did. Aside from the brief appearance of the skant, all modern Trek uniforms have required long pants. That's a move I approve of. I love the idea of equality in uniform options: for instance, that both genders should have to wear proper pants.
That I can agree with.
However if people like looking up their female engineer's skirt when she's crawling through the plasma conduits, then go for it. It's not me that looks like they need to meet real people once or twice.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Just pointing out that you're suggesting to force your standards onto others under the guise of "options".
That's wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. We want to give people options. We do not want to force anything on anyone. Giving people options is the direct opposite of forcing something onto someone. We're basically wanting to say "You can choose this, but you don't have to"
Unless you can demonstrate your claim, of course. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.
^ This answers the question as to why there are "gender specific" items and why it's unlikely to ever change.
It doesn't answer anything. You're appealing to an opinion, which has nothing to do with this issue. Opinions shouldn't be held higher than one another.
^ This answers the question as to why there are "gender specific" items and why it's unlikely to ever change.
Female Romulan hairstyles normally look stupid (like long hair put under a badly fitting short wig) but they are still available.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You are essentially asking for options (for everyone, not just you) that allow you to create what you see as a standard. Some folk do not want or need those options. It's not rocket science.
First of all, no, I do not see anything as a "standard", nor do I wish for anything of this nature to be a standard. Please do not put words into my mouth.
Second, no, it's not rocket science. Yes, some people don't want or need those options. That's the beauty of options though. If you don't want or need them, don't use them. The only people it will effect are those that do want those options. That's right, your characters would never be effected by any options you do not wish to apply to them.
That doesn't demonstrate anything. Many other game elements have existed in the game that either the devs have agreed to change or have been an obsolete element that they just haven't gotten around to change till later. Just because it's in the game doesn't support your argument one bit.
In the case of the "Punk" hairstyle, it was originally added as a Romulan-republic only thing. When people explained why they felt that was a bad idea the devs added it as an option to other races as well. So... If the devs agree that something is a good idea, they might do it,.
Comments
People always act over-defensive. I fail to see what issue there would be with the sharing of ideas besides that.
That is the whole point of a forum...for both sides to express their opinions on why something should or should not happen..
PS: A quick slap-up of a mock for my character on Tribble, just to prove my point I could easily replicate my current's character's look on a male model, minus the parts I'd not want on it, ie the curves... if there's ever re-gender token, I'm gonna be itching hardcore, as limitations of the female model are just... zzZZzZzz....
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
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I do wish to understand what people believe or support and why, and I'm open to being convinced that those are better than the beliefs and positions I hold. If I disagree with you, it's only because I find reason to, not because you hold a view that opposes my agenda.
And for the record, I fully support your Caitian/Ferasan ideas. Yes, even some of the sex-specific ones.
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I'll save the title for one day
Imo it could use a bit of smoothing of the upper part and the waist too, so the curves between waist and upper part disappear altogether, but, definitelly a step in right direction, both with the waist size adjustment slider and smaller bust size too.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
There is no negativity and why would it be going to them anyway?
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
The only people turning it negative are those who are overreacting to a disagreement. One of which would be you.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
In your view.
I believe some cat-species shouldn't be in game at all, let alone any attention should be given to them, because of [insert stupid, personal belief opinion why not & why cat species and their customization somehow offends me on personal level]. If you don't get it how double-standard you are, then you simply won't & you simply will keep at your double-standard, no matter what.
PS: Not really against your topic, merely showing you how stupid your arguments are.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
And if you said something like that in my thread, I would reply like I always do.
"Sorry to hear," and move on.
As far as 'male options' and 'female options' go, I'm fine seeing more universality between the genders- but at the same time (at least for a primary uniform) I'd like to see the options reflect some sense of professionalism...
(and don't necessarily take this as 'you must', but more 'I'd like to see'.)
You don't want more customization for both genders because of personal beliefs, fine, whatever, but that doesn't justify you wanting to not allow it to others. You'd not be forced to use them, so nothing is forced on you and your characters - as that's really where your word has any weight, as you have no right to dictate what other characters look like. I simply don't get this mentality, when selfish desires, beliefs should be limiting others from more freedom.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Someone's personal beliefs/religion/political affilation and what other TRIBBLE have you, does not give them right to direct how others want their characters to look like. It's not disagreement what you and the other fella has shown here, it's personal agenda being forced on others. Something both of you accused us of; when our proposal brings you the choice of using or not using it - yours restricts it for everyone. What's so hard to understand on this.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
The request, as far as I can determine, is for male toons to be able to have access to the much larger range of female hairstyles as well as being able to stand seductively.
I have long hair (and am male) If I styled it in pigtails would I be using a LGBT agenda? No, I would have a stupide hairstyle that doesn't look good on me, if I stood like a berk acting seductive would I be pushing a LGBT agenda? No, I'd get a cramp and look stupid.
Cute looks TRIBBLE and makes you run like a daft sod, but it's not being removed, so it should be open for males. Or can men not look cute without being part of a LGBT agenda?
Also asking for Females to get an undershirt with an open uniform option (or allowing men to go the Kirk route and go undershirtless) is obviously pushing a LGBT agenda? :rolleyes:.
Also as far as I can tell, all male options are open to females aren't they? (Stances anyway, maybe most hairstyles).
That I can agree with.
However if people like looking up their female engineer's skirt when she's crawling through the plasma conduits, then go for it. It's not me that looks like they need to meet real people once or twice.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Unless you can demonstrate your claim, of course. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.
It doesn't answer anything. You're appealing to an opinion, which has nothing to do with this issue. Opinions shouldn't be held higher than one another.
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Female Romulan hairstyles normally look stupid (like long hair put under a badly fitting short wig) but they are still available.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Second, no, it's not rocket science. Yes, some people don't want or need those options. That's the beauty of options though. If you don't want or need them, don't use them. The only people it will effect are those that do want those options. That's right, your characters would never be effected by any options you do not wish to apply to them.
Can you demonstrate this claim?
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Wait wait... let me get this straight... you want to restrict more options for other people because you don't want to see them with those options?
And you expect anyone to think that's reasonable?
That doesn't demonstrate anything. Many other game elements have existed in the game that either the devs have agreed to change or have been an obsolete element that they just haven't gotten around to change till later. Just because it's in the game doesn't support your argument one bit.
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My character Tsin'xing