Yeah totally, they went with the budget version and correctly figured out fake ships will sell.
First line I wrote was saying I am not worried about the game's safety, this is why.
That does still leave room for thinking it's offensive, cheap and pityful and sad.
To the point it degrades the final part of the game that used to be star trek to dust for me personally.
In fairness, they are running out of cannon ships which of course means they are forced into creating new ones. That is where my objections arise though - they are generally terrible at designing new Federation ships. The T6 ones are a total joke and lack any true Trek style or identity. It is a worrying omen of the future if this is where we're headed.
If they got a designer who understands fully the whole Federation look I'd be cool with it. They can design new models away to their hearts content.
The Tier 6 ships are intentionally a completely new direction and type of ships. The Tier 6 KDF and Romulan ships look quite traditional.
Look at ships like the Venture, the Sao Paulo, the Sovereign variants, the Heavy Escort Refits and Retrofits and the Odysee to see them doing more "traditional" designs.
They can do "classic" Star Trek quite well, if they want to. They can also diverge quite much from "classic" if they want to. You take what you like and avoid the stuff you don't.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If someone made a new tv show or movie they probably not even know about STO.
Same thing with ships made by cryptic, they aren't star trek, they aren't canon, they are fake.
I think probably what you were touching on was the abstract philosophical essence of something being real in a fake world.
Well... Lore from Startrek is also fake. There was and never will be a Captain Jean Luc Picard commanding a Galaxy Class Cruiser that flies through space and meets a god-like entity named Q. There is also, incidentally, no Android named Lore with an Android brother named Data, either.
And why not borrow some of the design elements for new classes of ship. Like the twin neck and the elongated nacelles?
One really nice design I've seen for a ship is that one in star trek renegades project they have one that is a cross between promethius and a vor'cha. Then a better looking D7 as well is just something to look at on their facebook page and maybe one day get that in the game as maybe a cross faction ship.
This is why i think alot of people playing this game are not true Star Trek fans. They are just here for the space combat with ships. A real fan would be bothered by this. The replies to this are aweful to me and proves what i've been feeling. The IP will truely be dead when this happens.
Oh my. I'm not a fan because I like the new designs? Shame on me!
How thoughtful of you to tell me I am not a Star Trek fan!
Get real.
And news flash, there are only so many canon ships left. When they add them all, they will have to create new ships, otherwise you will never have anything to try out.
Its not like there is no talent out there, it is just PWE/Cryptic don't employ them.
They focus far too much on office politics, I digress.
A cursory search of the internet nets you hundreds of ST ship designs made by fans and just plain old model designers, that have more ST in them than anything these lot will come up with and they are originals no copyright infringement.
So it just goes to show how much they actually think about these things, yeah they have a great design/art department, its a shame they only like to stroke their own ego's, if they did some research and even paid for the rights to some of those models then I think they would have a happier customer base. But as we know they don't give a care to any of us regardless of the lip service as they always slip up and tell us their true feelings about us, we know they don't listen yet we still talk, funny that !
Its not like there is no talent out there, it is just PWE/Cryptic don't employ them.
They focus far too much on office politics, I digress.
A cursory search of the internet nets you hundreds of ST ship designs made by fans and just plain old model designers, that have more ST in them than anything these lot will come up with and they are originals no copyright infringement.
So it just goes to show how much they actually think about these things, yeah they have a great design/art department, its a shame they only like to stroke their own ego's, if they did some research and even paid for the rights to some of those models then I think they would have a happier customer base. But as we know they don't give a care to any of us regardless of the lip service as they always slip up and tell us their true feelings about us, we know they don't listen yet we still talk, funny that !
A lot of those fan ships are hideous and/or boring. Just because you like it doesn't mean the forums won't have rage posts about a ship. You(and others in this thread) need to get over yourselves and you opinions on what ST rly is/isn't. CBS obviously endorses Cryptic designs, therefore they ARE Trek now. That can't be debated.
I don't care for the non-canon ships, but them saying that they aren't/can't include anymore canon ships doesn't concern me at the moment. They've said how hard it is to get these ships in game and the expense is enormous, especally dealing with multiple owners of some IP ships. I'm sure they will release T6 versions of the T5 ship in time, or they will add their "artistic" touch to some of the current canon ships that can be reskin to thier t5 counterparts. Look at the Guardian, that screams Galaxy/Ambassador.
I'm sure it will be months after DR's release, but I'm hoping my faith in them not trashing canon designs, and the profit that they would receive by making T6 versions or reskins of future ships will be realized.
With the hodge podge they aready have in game how much worse could it get. IDIC I tend not to worry about what others are flying, all those people flying weird a** s*** don't exsist in my RP/story missions anyhow. Try to enjoy yourself and let others do the same.
Also, for us old timers and lovers of TOS, T6 Connie-refit!! :P
This is like showing up at General Motors headquarters and crying that your "Classic" 1974 Corvette C3 should be just as fast and powerful as a modern C7 Stingray "Because it's iconic".
Actually, according to the in-game SCE design theory, it's less like asking GM to make a C3 that functions like a C7, and much more like asking for a C7 that looks like a C3.
From the in-game NX-class: After Starfleet starships were converted to a modular design, a group from the Starfleet Corps of Engineers working at Utopia Planitia wondered if vessels from the Federation's past could be constructed in this manner. Working with Federation historian Geoffrey Pacelli, the SCE officers chose the famed NX Class for reconstruction. The NX Class Starship Replica sports the classic look of Earth's starships from the 22nd century, but has been updated with modern technology to meet current Starfleet specifications for Lieutenant-rank missions.
I haven't read the whole thread, I'm only here to answer the OP: I feel the same. Star Trek Online to me is supposed to show Star Trek ships. I don't care what timeline they chose - Cryptic screwed up when they didn't have had the balls to limit the game to a specific era. Instead, they included everything ever shown on screen in a theme-park-MMO because they needed the fans to pay for the game. Since the game has no consistency and no credibility becuse of that, I continue to play it *because of* Star Trek canon designs. When they decide to not include any more canon designs (and there are a lot still missing) or continue to "reimagine" everything from ships to the setting to the weapons because they feel the need Star Trek fans are milked dry, we need to appeal to "kids these days" the game will not be interesting to me anymore, simple as that.
STO is, in my opinion, unfortunately not a good game. It's decent enough for a casual lunch.break MMO it is, it could even be a good game if certain decisions would have been made different in the past, but it wouldn't hold me a single day without the Star Trek paint job.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The fact that you think that it's perfectly legal to steal other peoples intellectual property shows your arguments have no merit.
Just because something is posted on the internet does not mean the IP holder is relinquishing claim to its copyright/trademark ownership.
I think perhaps he meant that certain star trek fans may be willing to give away thier designs, If I was any good at such designs, it would certainly bring me alot of pleasure to think they was being used in the star trek franchise.
I think perhaps he meant that certain star trek fans may be willing to give away thier designs, If I was any good at such designs, it would certainly bring me alot of pleasure to think they was being used in the star trek franchise.
Part of the issue here is that Cryptic needs to make certain you did not steal the design. There are thousands of Star Trek ships on the internet. It would be extremely difficult to police them all to make certain your submitted ship was not taken from someone else's designs - accidentally or intentionally.
So you could sign a waiver giving them the rights to use your design for free, and then Cryptic could turn around and be sued by someone else who you might have stolen the design from - and again, it could be entirely accidental in that you saw the design years ago and then forgot you ever saw it. But either way Cryptic and you are now being sued.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Part of the issue here is that Cryptic needs to make certain you did not steal the design. There are thousands of Star Trek ships on the internet. It would be extremely difficult to police them all to make certain your submitted ship was not taken from someone else's designs - accidentally or intentionally.
So you could sign a waiver giving them the rights to use your design for free, and then Cryptic could turn around and be sued by someone else who you might have stolen the design from - and again, it could be entirely accidental in that you saw the design years ago and then forgot you ever saw it. But either way Cryptic and you are now being sued.
I think there is a dev post about why they don't accept free fan built ships.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Part of the issue here is that Cryptic needs to make certain you did not steal the design. There are thousands of Star Trek ships on the internet. It would be extremely difficult to police them all to make certain your submitted ship was not taken from someone else's designs - accidentally or intentionally.
So you could sign a waiver giving them the rights to use your design for free, and then Cryptic could turn around and be sued by someone else who you might have stolen the design from - and again, it could be entirely accidental in that you saw the design years ago and then forgot you ever saw it. But either way Cryptic and you are now being sued.
That is a good point, but as I understand it (and I may well be wrong) doesnt the current I.P holder own everything that is created that is star trek related?
For instance if i created a ship and called it a star trek ship, could CBS not just say "that is ours now, as we own all rights to Star Trek?
I haven't read the whole thread, I'm only here to answer the OP: I feel the same. Star Trek Online to me is supposed to show Star Trek ships. I don't care what timeline they chose - Cryptic screwed up when they didn't have had the balls to limit the game to a specific era. Instead, they included everything ever shown on screen in a theme-park-MMO because they needed the fans to pay for the game. Since the game has no consistency and no credibility becuse of that, I continue to play it *because of* Star Trek canon designs. When they decide to not include any more canon designs (and there are a lot still missing) or continue to "reimagine" everything from ships to the setting to the weapons because they feel the need Star Trek fans are milked dry, we need to appeal to "kids these days" the game will not be interesting to me anymore, simple as that.
STO is, in my opinion, unfortunately not a good game. It's decent enough for a casual lunch.break MMO it is, it could even be a good game if certain decisions would have been made different in the past, but it wouldn't hold me a single day without the Star Trek paint job.
I kinda feel the opposite.
Lets be honest, Star Trek was always about the ships with lore taking the back seat. My biggest problem with STO is the lore, but now that they've gone off the rez and are creating their own lore they should populate their new 'verse with their own ship designs. STO may actually be better off if they abandon the charade of being a Star Trek themed MMO and call the game what it is- a Space MMO with some Star Trek in it. They won't need to worry about balance, or history, or any of the other nonsense that strangles the devs creativity.
That is a good point, but as I understand it (and I may well be wrong) doesnt the current I.P holder own everything that is created that is star trek related?
For instance if i created a ship and called it a star trek ship, could CBS not just say "that is ours now, as we own all rights to Star Trek?
I'm probably naive on the matter.
No, it does not work that way. CBS can ask you to remove any references to Star Trek or Starfleet if they wish, but they do not own your ship simply because you called it a Star Trek ship. The annual Ships of the Line Calendar is a perfect example of that. The artists get a license to produce the Calendar and use the Star Trek name but CBS does not own the ships pictured within. The artists who created those ships own them.
It is like the Vesta Class in the game. Cryptic had to get a license from Mark to use that ship, even though CBS uses it in their novels. CBS pays Mark for the rights to use the visuals on the covers and Cryptic pays Mark to use it in the game.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
The fact that you think that it's perfectly legal to steal other peoples intellectual property shows your arguments have no merit.
Just because something is posted on the internet does not mean the IP holder is relinquishing claim to its copyright/trademark ownership.
I could be wrong, but I think you completely misunderstood his post. I based on what he was replying to, I don't think he was saying cryptic should take those designs. He was saying that if those people are creative enough to come up with so many different original (and thus not copy written by anyone yet) designs, then cryptic ought darn well be able to make that many designs that also look like they fit in the TV shows, and as these would be original cryptic designs there would not be any copyright issues with them.
At least, that's how I read his post. Even if it wasn't his intent, it is a good point
What I've always been confused about is that people seem to think that Starfleet couldn't or wouldn't make a ship that looks like one from earlier but has the capabilities of a new ship. Is there some reason why a ship can no longer have a round saucer; something inherent in that design that means you can't make a ship with with new bridge seating?
The fact is, many of us love the old designs from the shows. We associate Star Trek with ships that were on air or film. When we bought them, we bought retrofits that made canon ships that had tier 5 capabilities instead of tier 4 or 3 or whatever. I think a lot of people are upset that they will fall behind if they want to use the ships they paid for as top of the line.
I'm not saying don't make new ships. But the old ones should be upgradeable. Fully upgradeable. And unless Cryptic has forgotten how to make money, I'd be surprised if we don't see retro-retrofits of the canon ships, or at least ships that look a lot like those designs. I have to admit right now I'm not a fan of the new tier 6 fed ships. I see no reason why we can't have more traditional cosmetics on new ships. At least on some of them.
Maybe they're right and it will prove that there is no content that can't be done well with a t5-U ship and it will prove to be a non-issue. I don't believe that is true though.
To reinforce my title, my main point is that there is no reason why a ship has to have sharp edges vs. smooth lines for any tier of ship of any capability. The outsides don't have that much to do with the insides after all. Make the ship as big or small as you need to, but give people good options in cosmetics to choose from. I like round saucers and nacelles in a V shape at the level of the saucer section. I love the Ambassador design for example. Why is it I have to switch to something more shark like just to get tier 6? Just let me have a ship that looks like the way I see star trek. Let others who want sharper lines to have that. Everyone wins.
I used to be Shakkar with thousands of posts. My very identity was stolen from me so now I am originalshakkar, the original.
I could be wrong, but I think you completely misunderstood his post. I based on what he was replying to, I don't think he was saying cryptic should take those designs. He was saying that if those people are creative enough to come up with so many different original (and thus not copy written by anyone yet) designs, then cryptic ought darn well be able to make that many designs that also look like they fit in the TV shows, and as these would be original cryptic designs there would not be any copyright issues with them.
At least, that's how I read his post. Even if it wasn't his intent, it is a good point
They have made ships that look like they fit with what the general design is...it's just that the T6 in tell ships are purposefully not following the design...and the T6 Intell ships are not the new design for Star Fleet any more than the Dyson ships were...they've already said that classic designs are coming for T6
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
First line I wrote was saying I am not worried about the game's safety, this is why.
That does still leave room for thinking it's offensive, cheap and pityful and sad.
To the point it degrades the final part of the game that used to be star trek to dust for me personally.
The Tier 6 ships are intentionally a completely new direction and type of ships. The Tier 6 KDF and Romulan ships look quite traditional.
Look at ships like the Venture, the Sao Paulo, the Sovereign variants, the Heavy Escort Refits and Retrofits and the Odysee to see them doing more "traditional" designs.
They can do "classic" Star Trek quite well, if they want to. They can also diverge quite much from "classic" if they want to. You take what you like and avoid the stuff you don't.
If someone made a new tv show or movie they probably not even know about STO.
Same thing with ships made by cryptic, they aren't star trek, they aren't canon, they are fake.
I think probably what you were touching on was the abstract philosophical essence of something being real in a fake world.
Well... Lore from Startrek is also fake. There was and never will be a Captain Jean Luc Picard commanding a Galaxy Class Cruiser that flies through space and meets a god-like entity named Q.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs
A pity I've yet to see them do it then. I can't give them the Oddy as it was fan designed.
They picked it from hundreds of submissions, and they did the actual 3D model for the game. All they had to go on was a picture.
And there are still the other ships I mentioned.
And why not borrow some of the design elements for new classes of ship. Like the twin neck and the elongated nacelles?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
One really nice design I've seen for a ship is that one in star trek renegades project they have one that is a cross between promethius and a vor'cha. Then a better looking D7 as well is just something to look at on their facebook page and maybe one day get that in the game as maybe a cross faction ship.
CBS owns the Star Trek IP (at least from the TV series)
Most things in Star Trek Online have to have the approval of CBS
Therefore it is logical to assume that most things in STO have been rubber stamped before they get in game.
Exposing fakes since 2374
Oh my. I'm not a fan because I like the new designs? Shame on me!
How thoughtful of you to tell me I am not a Star Trek fan!
Get real.
And news flash, there are only so many canon ships left. When they add them all, they will have to create new ships, otherwise you will never have anything to try out.
Exposing fakes since 2374
:eek: BBBBBBBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNN
They focus far too much on office politics, I digress.
A cursory search of the internet nets you hundreds of ST ship designs made by fans and just plain old model designers, that have more ST in them than anything these lot will come up with and they are originals no copyright infringement.
So it just goes to show how much they actually think about these things, yeah they have a great design/art department, its a shame they only like to stroke their own ego's, if they did some research and even paid for the rights to some of those models then I think they would have a happier customer base. But as we know they don't give a care to any of us regardless of the lip service as they always slip up and tell us their true feelings about us, we know they don't listen yet we still talk, funny that !
A lot of those fan ships are hideous and/or boring. Just because you like it doesn't mean the forums won't have rage posts about a ship. You(and others in this thread) need to get over yourselves and you opinions on what ST rly is/isn't. CBS obviously endorses Cryptic designs, therefore they ARE Trek now. That can't be debated.
That includes you then I assume or are you special ?
I'm sure it will be months after DR's release, but I'm hoping my faith in them not trashing canon designs, and the profit that they would receive by making T6 versions or reskins of future ships will be realized.
With the hodge podge they aready have in game how much worse could it get. IDIC
Also, for us old timers and lovers of TOS, T6 Connie-refit!! :P
You might as well be asking for World War I-era biplanes to be sent up against modern Eurofighter Typhoons.
It doesn't make sense.
You rly should include the whole quote, but then it wouldn't suit your reply.
Actually, according to the in-game SCE design theory, it's less like asking GM to make a C3 that functions like a C7, and much more like asking for a C7 that looks like a C3.
From the in-game NX-class:
After Starfleet starships were converted to a modular design, a group from the Starfleet Corps of Engineers working at Utopia Planitia wondered if vessels from the Federation's past could be constructed in this manner. Working with Federation historian Geoffrey Pacelli, the SCE officers chose the famed NX Class for reconstruction. The NX Class Starship Replica sports the classic look of Earth's starships from the 22nd century, but has been updated with modern technology to meet current Starfleet specifications for Lieutenant-rank missions.
STO is, in my opinion, unfortunately not a good game. It's decent enough for a casual lunch.break MMO it is, it could even be a good game if certain decisions would have been made different in the past, but it wouldn't hold me a single day without the Star Trek paint job.
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I think perhaps he meant that certain star trek fans may be willing to give away thier designs, If I was any good at such designs, it would certainly bring me alot of pleasure to think they was being used in the star trek franchise.
So you could sign a waiver giving them the rights to use your design for free, and then Cryptic could turn around and be sued by someone else who you might have stolen the design from - and again, it could be entirely accidental in that you saw the design years ago and then forgot you ever saw it. But either way Cryptic and you are now being sued.
I think there is a dev post about why they don't accept free fan built ships.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That is a good point, but as I understand it (and I may well be wrong) doesnt the current I.P holder own everything that is created that is star trek related?
For instance if i created a ship and called it a star trek ship, could CBS not just say "that is ours now, as we own all rights to Star Trek?
I'm probably naive on the matter.
I kinda feel the opposite.
Lets be honest, Star Trek was always about the ships with lore taking the back seat. My biggest problem with STO is the lore, but now that they've gone off the rez and are creating their own lore they should populate their new 'verse with their own ship designs. STO may actually be better off if they abandon the charade of being a Star Trek themed MMO and call the game what it is- a Space MMO with some Star Trek in it. They won't need to worry about balance, or history, or any of the other nonsense that strangles the devs creativity.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
It is like the Vesta Class in the game. Cryptic had to get a license from Mark to use that ship, even though CBS uses it in their novels. CBS pays Mark for the rights to use the visuals on the covers and Cryptic pays Mark to use it in the game.
I could be wrong, but I think you completely misunderstood his post. I based on what he was replying to, I don't think he was saying cryptic should take those designs. He was saying that if those people are creative enough to come up with so many different original (and thus not copy written by anyone yet) designs, then cryptic ought darn well be able to make that many designs that also look like they fit in the TV shows, and as these would be original cryptic designs there would not be any copyright issues with them.
At least, that's how I read his post. Even if it wasn't his intent, it is a good point
The fact is, many of us love the old designs from the shows. We associate Star Trek with ships that were on air or film. When we bought them, we bought retrofits that made canon ships that had tier 5 capabilities instead of tier 4 or 3 or whatever. I think a lot of people are upset that they will fall behind if they want to use the ships they paid for as top of the line.
I'm not saying don't make new ships. But the old ones should be upgradeable. Fully upgradeable. And unless Cryptic has forgotten how to make money, I'd be surprised if we don't see retro-retrofits of the canon ships, or at least ships that look a lot like those designs. I have to admit right now I'm not a fan of the new tier 6 fed ships. I see no reason why we can't have more traditional cosmetics on new ships. At least on some of them.
Maybe they're right and it will prove that there is no content that can't be done well with a t5-U ship and it will prove to be a non-issue. I don't believe that is true though.
To reinforce my title, my main point is that there is no reason why a ship has to have sharp edges vs. smooth lines for any tier of ship of any capability. The outsides don't have that much to do with the insides after all. Make the ship as big or small as you need to, but give people good options in cosmetics to choose from. I like round saucers and nacelles in a V shape at the level of the saucer section. I love the Ambassador design for example. Why is it I have to switch to something more shark like just to get tier 6? Just let me have a ship that looks like the way I see star trek. Let others who want sharper lines to have that. Everyone wins.
They have made ships that look like they fit with what the general design is...it's just that the T6 in tell ships are purposefully not following the design...and the T6 Intell ships are not the new design for Star Fleet any more than the Dyson ships were...they've already said that classic designs are coming for T6
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.