Well that's gonna be a bit of a problem when you're playing in the 24th century and those ships are considered museum pieces.
Do you honestly expect a Model T to keep up with the Lamborghini in this day and age?
No one seems to really care. People want a Star Trek theme park and play whatever ship they like. Some want their ship to be their favorite from the Star Trek canon, even if it should be a museum piece, and they still want to play it at endgame and not feel gimped.
You either accept that as game company, or end up making a poor business. It's probably one of the costs you have to pay if you use an established IP with a rich timeline, instead of making your own. On the plus side, you got a ton of people willing to give you money out of the box, and you have a lot of inspiration material.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
EA did exactly this with C&C tfd.
the patch you can d/l from teh EA site to get the c&c tfd game to work is not only a fan made patch, but a bundle of fan made patches including a fan made no-dvd crack to bypass the copy protection.
This isn't EA. This isn't C&C. Not all intellectual properties, licensors and licensees are created equal.
It's really a legal arena. When someone said, "Because lawyers." they're correct. That's really all it comes down to.
A world without lawyers would be a wonderful place indeed, we have far too many leeches already.
We know STO stopped being Star Trek along time ago, just so long as the ship designers are sympathetic to the ST ship design and they probably wont be, I don't see a problem. They know that most of you see shiny @.@ and that's it your money is their's.
I think iconians has a unique insight into the offices of PWE/Cryptic, which leads me to believe he has some connection there
No one seems to really care. People want a Star Trek theme park and play whatever ship they like. Some want their ship to be their favorite from the Star Trek canon, even if it should be a museum piece, and they still want to play it at endgame and not feel gimped.
You either accept that as game company, or end up making a poor business. It's probably one of the costs you have to pay if you use an established IP with a rich timeline, instead of making your own. On the plus side, you got a ton of people willing to give you money out of the box, and you have a lot of inspiration material.
If they intended to you to use those old ships all the time, they would not have set it in the 24th century.
As a consumer, sometimes you have to learn that you will not always get what you want, especially when it comes to IPs that are not yours to command. Cryptic wants to forge ahead with original content and CBS gives them the okay, they're gonna go forward with it. It's not "a poor business", it's a smart move to try to move the IP forward rather than it remain stagnant. Hell, everyone and their Tribble is begging for a new Trek show, and clearly trying to reinvent the original series didn't really go well. So since the past clearly can't be brought back, time to forge ahead with the new. Iconian threats, Klingon allies and new ships for everyone.
If you can't handle that, maybe you'd be better off playing Star Wars, where technology and culture have grinded to a halt for 3000 years.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
1) There are very few IP ships left. the only ones they have not added are the ones you saw on screen, kitbashed together and then blown up for a one second sweep at wolf 359. i know some people want them, some dont. there is perhaps 5 or 6 of them and cryptic decided they dont think they would gather much interest outside of some very hardcore players. you may see one or two appear every now and then but even if they added them all, they would still run out in six months and be in the same situation.
2) current IP ships are not being forgotten. you can upgrade them, and while there is some debate as to 5u vs tier 6, the difference is minimal in gameplay terms. these ships are not going to become useless, people are not going to stop flying them.
3) things change. its like saying tng, ds9 and voy should only use tos ships. this is the current version of star trek. it may not be canon but its close enough that ship designs are going to move forward whether people like it or not. otherwise it just stagnates.
In fairness, they are running out of cannon ships which of course means they are forced into creating new ones. That is where my objections arise though - they are generally terrible at designing new Federation ships. The T6 ones are a total joke and lack any true Trek style or identity. It is a worrying omen of the future if this is where we're headed.
If they got a designer who understands fully the whole Federation look I'd be cool with it. They can design new models away to their hearts content.
On a personal note between me and myself, yeah I am worried. Because now not only is the lore fake and the gameplay is fake but the ships are too.
There isn't a whole lot of star trek left minus a handful of sound effects
I agree.
If more and more of these kinds of ships flood into the game, I wonder how much longer it'll be before you even feel you're in a Star Trek game anymore. And if you totally rob the game of its IP identity, will people stick around?
We all know this isn't the greatest MMO on the market but the IP is what keeps us all here.
If more and more of these kinds of ships flood into the game, I wonder how much longer it'll be before you even feel you're in a Star Trek game anymore. And if you totally rob the game of its IP identity, will people stick around?
We all know this isn't the greatest MMO on the market but the IP is what keeps us all here.
I think the better question is: Who are you to decide what is and is not "star trek"?
That has been bounced about the thread and still no one has yet to answer. Do you work for CBS? Are you one of the ship designers from the original series? Are you the reincarnation of Mr. Roddenberry, come back from the dead to claim his franchise?
Since there is a good chance you answered no to those questions, it's pretty safe to assume your credentials as a ship builder are as legit as my credentials as a brain surgeon. Just because I play Surgeon Simulator doesn't make me the authority on the subject. Just because you play STO does not make you an authority on the universe.
So, since neither one of us has any power, how about we just play the game and keep our visions of Star Trek on Fanfiction.net, where they belong?
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Yeah I am also thinking about other stuff that kills the trek feeling in co-junction with fake ships.
Romulan faction controversy, killing exploration and so on makes the ship problem bigger because to me it was the last star trek element to the game.
We don't have a huge bucket of features that make it star trek to begin with.
And running out of canon ship yeah but that's the situation they put themselves in I don't accept that as an apology that it "just happened" last week and no one has any responsibility in that.
They've known it was going to happen for - years - and what they decided and planned was, it would be cheaper and more convenient for THEM to ram fake ships down our throats.
This way they don't have to pay anyone or be held accountable because the budget version of professionalism, authenticity and all that stuff.
I take offence to that, you bring your date to McDs too?
Yes people should fly a star trek ship playing star trek how are we even debating this.
/edit.
Probably from their perspective life would be a lot easier if they don't have to follow any official canon at all such as with the new fake borg race.
To them they probably even loving the idea of finally being able to come up with everything on their own
If they intended to you to use those old ships all the time, they would not have set it in the 24th century.
You mean 25th century?
It doesn't really matter what they originally intended. The paying customer has said what they wanted, that's why we got C-Store Retrofits and Fleet Retrofits of almost all lower tier ships.
As a consumer, sometimes you have to learn that you will not always get what you want,
Sure, but I won't pay for stuff I don't want. Cryptic has decided already that they like customers paying them, and they have given people their old ships as endgame ships already, and people gladly paid for it.
If Cryptic is now suggesting that these ships will no longer be as good as newer ships, than they will have to face the repercussions.
If you can't handle that, maybe you'd be better off playing Star Wars, where technology and culture have grinded to a halt for 3000 years.
But Star Wars is Star Wars, not Star Trek. Star Wars still won't let me fly a Defiant Class Escort or shoot phasers.
And the lore for something like the Galaxy Class states that it was designed for a 100 year life-span with regular refits or retrofits to keep it up-to-date. That should provide just enough veneer to justify the ability of Starfleet, KDF or Romulan Empire to keep older ships endgame material.
Of course, all that doesn'T change the problem that we're at the end of the line in regards to canon ships. Only very obscure ships are still missing, many who we've never seen the full model of, and that are often very ugly kitbashes that are no worse than what Cryptic could come up with. So we actually have a two-fold problem -
1) A new tier that may leave the already implemented canon ships behind
2) The lack of new canon ships to implement.
Personally, I prefer to kitbash my ships with parts from different variants and actually want some new ships (but I am ambivalent about the latest batch) to fly. In my mind, my Captain is the star of a new show, so to speak, and thus he or she also needs a new ship.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Personally I don't think the ship designs matter so much, we were often introduced to new designs during the shows and films, what's important is that Cryptic stay true to the Star Trek ideals, for example I see little reference to the Prime Directive in any of their stories, nowadays they just go in guns blazing and to hell with the consequences.
Because in the shows, films and novels, the Prime Directive is thrown out and the heroes go in guns blazing and to hell with the consequences.
They never had to pay anyone for any ship, canon or not.
I don't know what you are talking about exactly.
What I was commenting on was what al rivera had said (which I didn't actually say in the post).
He said they didn't want to be bothered by paying a designer royalities and the annoyance of bureaucracy, so they went with their own ships it being easier and cheaper.
My take on that is, it's taking your date to McDs. It's cheap, pityful and all that. I take offence to it.
Of course we deserve official star trek designs from official designers and anyone buying t6 is a straight up arnold benedict to star trek.
Yeah totally, they went with the budget version and correctly figured out fake ships will sell.
First line I wrote was saying I am not worried about the game's safety, this is why.
That does still leave room for thinking it's offensive, cheap and pityful and sad.
To the point it degrades the final part of the game that used to be star trek to dust for me personally.
In fairness, they are running out of cannon ships which of course means they are forced into creating new ones. That is where my objections arise though - they are generally terrible at designing new Federation ships. The T6 ones are a total joke and lack any true Trek style or identity. It is a worrying omen of the future if this is where we're headed.
If they got a designer who understands fully the whole Federation look I'd be cool with it. They can design new models away to their hearts content.
The Tier 6 ships are intentionally a completely new direction and type of ships. The Tier 6 KDF and Romulan ships look quite traditional.
Look at ships like the Venture, the Sao Paulo, the Sovereign variants, the Heavy Escort Refits and Retrofits and the Odysee to see them doing more "traditional" designs.
They can do "classic" Star Trek quite well, if they want to. They can also diverge quite much from "classic" if they want to. You take what you like and avoid the stuff you don't.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If someone made a new tv show or movie they probably not even know about STO.
Same thing with ships made by cryptic, they aren't star trek, they aren't canon, they are fake.
I think probably what you were touching on was the abstract philosophical essence of something being real in a fake world.
Well... Lore from Startrek is also fake. There was and never will be a Captain Jean Luc Picard commanding a Galaxy Class Cruiser that flies through space and meets a god-like entity named Q. There is also, incidentally, no Android named Lore with an Android brother named Data, either.
And why not borrow some of the design elements for new classes of ship. Like the twin neck and the elongated nacelles?
One really nice design I've seen for a ship is that one in star trek renegades project they have one that is a cross between promethius and a vor'cha. Then a better looking D7 as well is just something to look at on their facebook page and maybe one day get that in the game as maybe a cross faction ship.
This is why i think alot of people playing this game are not true Star Trek fans. They are just here for the space combat with ships. A real fan would be bothered by this. The replies to this are aweful to me and proves what i've been feeling. The IP will truely be dead when this happens.
Oh my. I'm not a fan because I like the new designs? Shame on me!
How thoughtful of you to tell me I am not a Star Trek fan!
Get real.
And news flash, there are only so many canon ships left. When they add them all, they will have to create new ships, otherwise you will never have anything to try out.
Comments
You either accept that as game company, or end up making a poor business. It's probably one of the costs you have to pay if you use an established IP with a rich timeline, instead of making your own. On the plus side, you got a ton of people willing to give you money out of the box, and you have a lot of inspiration material.
This isn't EA. This isn't C&C. Not all intellectual properties, licensors and licensees are created equal.
It's really a legal arena. When someone said, "Because lawyers." they're correct. That's really all it comes down to.
Can you imagine a world without lawyers?
We know STO stopped being Star Trek along time ago, just so long as the ship designers are sympathetic to the ST ship design and they probably wont be, I don't see a problem. They know that most of you see shiny @.@ and that's it your money is their's.
I think iconians has a unique insight into the offices of PWE/Cryptic, which leads me to believe he has some connection there
If they intended to you to use those old ships all the time, they would not have set it in the 24th century.
As a consumer, sometimes you have to learn that you will not always get what you want, especially when it comes to IPs that are not yours to command. Cryptic wants to forge ahead with original content and CBS gives them the okay, they're gonna go forward with it. It's not "a poor business", it's a smart move to try to move the IP forward rather than it remain stagnant. Hell, everyone and their Tribble is begging for a new Trek show, and clearly trying to reinvent the original series didn't really go well. So since the past clearly can't be brought back, time to forge ahead with the new. Iconian threats, Klingon allies and new ships for everyone.
If you can't handle that, maybe you'd be better off playing Star Wars, where technology and culture have grinded to a halt for 3000 years.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
2) current IP ships are not being forgotten. you can upgrade them, and while there is some debate as to 5u vs tier 6, the difference is minimal in gameplay terms. these ships are not going to become useless, people are not going to stop flying them.
3) things change. its like saying tng, ds9 and voy should only use tos ships. this is the current version of star trek. it may not be canon but its close enough that ship designs are going to move forward whether people like it or not. otherwise it just stagnates.
I think their model with cash sinks is a winning formula that only requires that you sell - something -
No matter how ugly or fake it is, someone is going to front 300$ in keys to get it count on that.
On a personal note between me and myself, yeah I am worried. Because now not only is the lore fake and the gameplay is fake but the ships are too.
There isn't a whole lot of star trek left minus a handful of sound effects
If they got a designer who understands fully the whole Federation look I'd be cool with it. They can design new models away to their hearts content.
I agree.
If more and more of these kinds of ships flood into the game, I wonder how much longer it'll be before you even feel you're in a Star Trek game anymore. And if you totally rob the game of its IP identity, will people stick around?
We all know this isn't the greatest MMO on the market but the IP is what keeps us all here.
I think the better question is: Who are you to decide what is and is not "star trek"?
That has been bounced about the thread and still no one has yet to answer. Do you work for CBS? Are you one of the ship designers from the original series? Are you the reincarnation of Mr. Roddenberry, come back from the dead to claim his franchise?
Since there is a good chance you answered no to those questions, it's pretty safe to assume your credentials as a ship builder are as legit as my credentials as a brain surgeon. Just because I play Surgeon Simulator doesn't make me the authority on the subject. Just because you play STO does not make you an authority on the universe.
So, since neither one of us has any power, how about we just play the game and keep our visions of Star Trek on Fanfiction.net, where they belong?
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Romulan faction controversy, killing exploration and so on makes the ship problem bigger because to me it was the last star trek element to the game.
We don't have a huge bucket of features that make it star trek to begin with.
And running out of canon ship yeah but that's the situation they put themselves in I don't accept that as an apology that it "just happened" last week and no one has any responsibility in that.
They've known it was going to happen for - years - and what they decided and planned was, it would be cheaper and more convenient for THEM to ram fake ships down our throats.
This way they don't have to pay anyone or be held accountable because the budget version of professionalism, authenticity and all that stuff.
I take offence to that, you bring your date to McDs too?
Yes people should fly a star trek ship playing star trek how are we even debating this.
/edit.
Probably from their perspective life would be a lot easier if they don't have to follow any official canon at all such as with the new fake borg race.
To them they probably even loving the idea of finally being able to come up with everything on their own
It doesn't really matter what they originally intended. The paying customer has said what they wanted, that's why we got C-Store Retrofits and Fleet Retrofits of almost all lower tier ships.
Sure, but I won't pay for stuff I don't want. Cryptic has decided already that they like customers paying them, and they have given people their old ships as endgame ships already, and people gladly paid for it.
If Cryptic is now suggesting that these ships will no longer be as good as newer ships, than they will have to face the repercussions.
But Star Wars is Star Wars, not Star Trek. Star Wars still won't let me fly a Defiant Class Escort or shoot phasers.
And the lore for something like the Galaxy Class states that it was designed for a 100 year life-span with regular refits or retrofits to keep it up-to-date. That should provide just enough veneer to justify the ability of Starfleet, KDF or Romulan Empire to keep older ships endgame material.
Of course, all that doesn'T change the problem that we're at the end of the line in regards to canon ships. Only very obscure ships are still missing, many who we've never seen the full model of, and that are often very ugly kitbashes that are no worse than what Cryptic could come up with. So we actually have a two-fold problem -
1) A new tier that may leave the already implemented canon ships behind
2) The lack of new canon ships to implement.
Personally, I prefer to kitbash my ships with parts from different variants and actually want some new ships (but I am ambivalent about the latest batch) to fly. In my mind, my Captain is the star of a new show, so to speak, and thus he or she also needs a new ship.
Because in the shows, films and novels, the Prime Directive is thrown out and the heroes go in guns blazing and to hell with the consequences.
So, yeah, Cryptic holds that ideal to a T.
Edit:
What following the Prime Directive is actually for.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I don't know what you are talking about exactly.
What I was commenting on was what al rivera had said (which I didn't actually say in the post).
He said they didn't want to be bothered by paying a designer royalities and the annoyance of bureaucracy, so they went with their own ships it being easier and cheaper.
My take on that is, it's taking your date to McDs. It's cheap, pityful and all that. I take offence to it.
Of course we deserve official star trek designs from official designers and anyone buying t6 is a straight up arnold benedict to star trek.
First line I wrote was saying I am not worried about the game's safety, this is why.
That does still leave room for thinking it's offensive, cheap and pityful and sad.
To the point it degrades the final part of the game that used to be star trek to dust for me personally.
The Tier 6 ships are intentionally a completely new direction and type of ships. The Tier 6 KDF and Romulan ships look quite traditional.
Look at ships like the Venture, the Sao Paulo, the Sovereign variants, the Heavy Escort Refits and Retrofits and the Odysee to see them doing more "traditional" designs.
They can do "classic" Star Trek quite well, if they want to. They can also diverge quite much from "classic" if they want to. You take what you like and avoid the stuff you don't.
If someone made a new tv show or movie they probably not even know about STO.
Same thing with ships made by cryptic, they aren't star trek, they aren't canon, they are fake.
I think probably what you were touching on was the abstract philosophical essence of something being real in a fake world.
Well... Lore from Startrek is also fake. There was and never will be a Captain Jean Luc Picard commanding a Galaxy Class Cruiser that flies through space and meets a god-like entity named Q.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs
A pity I've yet to see them do it then. I can't give them the Oddy as it was fan designed.
They picked it from hundreds of submissions, and they did the actual 3D model for the game. All they had to go on was a picture.
And there are still the other ships I mentioned.
And why not borrow some of the design elements for new classes of ship. Like the twin neck and the elongated nacelles?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
One really nice design I've seen for a ship is that one in star trek renegades project they have one that is a cross between promethius and a vor'cha. Then a better looking D7 as well is just something to look at on their facebook page and maybe one day get that in the game as maybe a cross faction ship.
CBS owns the Star Trek IP (at least from the TV series)
Most things in Star Trek Online have to have the approval of CBS
Therefore it is logical to assume that most things in STO have been rubber stamped before they get in game.
Exposing fakes since 2374
Oh my. I'm not a fan because I like the new designs? Shame on me!
How thoughtful of you to tell me I am not a Star Trek fan!
Get real.
And news flash, there are only so many canon ships left. When they add them all, they will have to create new ships, otherwise you will never have anything to try out.
Exposing fakes since 2374