I doubt it with how good players are. Stat wise it might appeal, but in actual application that's an entirely different story. We will have to wait and see.
This was mentioned a ways up but deserves repeating so hopefully the devs will get it
People don't want to use the Robocop-Cylon wannabe designs. They want the Defiant. They want the Rotarran. They want the N'ventnar. They want their ship, not the new designs, and they have bonded with their ships for four years. Four. That's countless hours, countless victories, and countless defeats.
Print this out and paste it over the whiteboard that contains all the great ideas for new T6 ships... START there and work up.
Give me a top end T6 Sovereign and I'll buy it... A T6 connie and I'll buy 10. However the the Cryptic ship designers have gone off the deep end pushing for "different and exciting designs" Just because it's different and gets people excited doesn't mean it's good.
This was mentioned a ways up but deserves repeating so hopefully the devs will get it
People don't want to use the Robocop-Cylon wannabe designs. They want the Defiant. They want the Rotarran. They want the N'ventnar. They want their ship, not the new designs, and they have bonded with their ships for four years. Four. That's countless hours, countless victories, and countless defeats.
Print this out and paste it over the whiteboard that contains all the great ideas for new T6 ships... START there and work up.
Give me a top end T6 Sovereign and I'll buy it... A T6 connie and I'll buy 10. However the the Cryptic ship designers have gone off the deep end pushing for "different and exciting designs" Just because it's different and gets people excited doesn't mean it's good.
I would be happy with a Typhoon, and there are people who would be happy with a Jupiter.
Eh...they're free to upgrade, just not tier 6, but arguably lower value T5U.
Not all of them, not a single MU ship on the list that I can see. And the event ships they rolled into the fleet system aren't free either. Look at my sig- a FREE 10 console Chel Grett is upgraded for FREE, a 9 console Kamarag event ship is 2K zen PLUS whatever their upgrade fee is.
Not gonna happen, but if ships levelled up all the way from T1 there wouldn't be an issue here.
btw... I'd expect this thread to get the merge treatment at some point. A lot of threads already to sort out.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
A T6 Connie would get me buying also. Considering we have a lot of different faction ships, I would like to see the MU ships come in T6 form also, even if it were a Z-Store purchase. A T6 Warship Voyager definitely seems appropriate in my opinion also. There are so many ships that are missing from STO or just missing from the top level. I agree that ships that are not in the game yet that are canon and ships that are in the game but not available at the top level be made available before adding in these home brew designs that don't look like they belong in this game.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
It's amazing how you know they will be a requirement for PvP when no info on them has been released! You must work for Cryptic and know what we don't right? Or you know a dev who is leaking information?
I feel pretty confident my upgraded Vesta with an extra console will hold her own. I could add more shields and swap out something for more hull defense and maybe 1 trait swap and she will be much stouter still in comparison to her foes now.
The T'varo also will be fine because it will seldom get hit.
The others, yeah, they probably will struggle.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I agree with you, and then some. Every 10-console ship should get the half-upgrade to T5-FU for no-charge, and be able to purchase an upgrade to full T6 if they wish. This would give a reason to continue buying T5 ships, which would help cryptic and players alike during the transition period.
Note to fanbois: this is not asking for free upgrade to T6
I said virtually the same thing in an another thread earlier so I cant help but agree.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
This was mentioned a ways up but deserves repeating so hopefully the devs will get it
People don't want to use the Robocop-Cylon wannabe designs. They want the Defiant. They want the Rotarran. They want the N'ventnar. They want their ship, not the new designs, and they have bonded with their ships for four years. Four. That's countless hours, countless victories, and countless defeats.
Print this out and paste it over the whiteboard that contains all the great ideas for new T6 ships... START there and work up.
Give me a top end T6 Sovereign and I'll buy it... A T6 connie and I'll buy 10. However the the Cryptic ship designers have gone off the deep end pushing for "different and exciting designs" Just because it's different and gets people excited doesn't mean it's good.
AMEN. The uproar is because we want to fly the ship of our choice and still be AS GOOD, not have some cryptic mandated T6 ship forced on us. Let existing ships upgrade to T6, even at cost, and these threads wouldn't be hundreds of pages long.
Looks pretty on topic to me...the MAJORITY of us vet players who have put in serious money to support this game think this kind of financial extortion is complete horsesh!t.
I don't see how it's extortion....
Will you get one-shotted endlessly in the new stuff without a T6 ship? no. It'll simply be slightly more challenging that otherwise.
It's amazing how you know they will be a requirement for PvP when no info on them has been released! You must work for Cryptic and know what we don't right? Or you know a dev who is leaking information?
It has been told already that an upgraded T5 ship shall lack extra bridge officer ability. Not the specialist one, but the ability slot for a regular bridge station station.
Beside additional bo station, T6 shall get unique Specialist officer station. It is a way better than the upgraded T5.
Only one single additional regular bo station ability shows that T6 is overpowered towards T5. This ability can be anything, Eng Team, Sci Team or a copy of a skill you are using already to cut its cd.
Still it is unknown what kind of skill shall have Specialist. Doubt those shall give only cosmetic effect.
For now, upgraded T5 compared to T6 seems to be as good as the current free lvl40 Star Cruiser against Galor.
If developers want to make many it is ok. Give a proper update for the T5 to become real, full T6 and feel free to charge for it.
__________________
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
Something that might cut down on some the back and forth (frustration on one side from not knowing, frustration from the other side in having to point to it over and over, frustration on one side not believing that, frustration from the other side in not being believed, and flamewar!) between folks...
...would be if Geko's and Gorngonzolla's posts could either be linked in the OP or added as part of the Q&A to the blogs. Not everybody out there knows about or uses the dev tracker, so they may not have seen the posts. Others may simply not have seen the posts (or multiple references to the posts) in this growing threadnaught.
Cause a lot of the stuff ends up going back to the same questions/arguments that have already been answered and played out multiple times in the thread...
Looks pretty on topic to me...the MAJORITY of us vet players who have put in serious money to support this game think this kind of financial extortion is complete horsesh!t.
Well said!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
Your desire to optimize or not is in no way bearing on what you actually NEED to do well in the game.
Not being "fully optimized" in no way means you NEED to get better gear, or that the game is somehow forcing you to get the new gear in order to pla or do well at it.
You will undoubtedly need it to be viable in PvP. Also, I never said that I personally optimize builds. I just know that there are many who do, whether they could get by without it or not.
Most people don't play games so that they just get by with what they have - they try to be as well-equipped as possible.
And this right here is the fundamental flaw in your argument, obsolete would imply it can no longer be used in a manner that lets you beat the game..... but it can.
Obsolete. You see where it implies the item can't be used effectively anymore? I certainly don't.
I do, however, see where it says the items are no longer in use because something new/better exists.
Because a cost in zen, that can be earned in about 2 hours of the voth ground battlezone is greedy?
This does not appear to be a figure based on the mathematical facts of the game. No price has been given for the upgrades, no 8000 dil per day limit has been accounted for, and no changes in the zen-dil exchange rate were considered.
Therefore, I cannot take this statement seriously.
Okay, I was going to post here before (other than in a reply to what someone else had said), but decided to wait and consider a bit more before doing so.
I think the problem right now is a lack of information on what a T6 ship will actually be in direct comparison to current top-end ships. This leaves everyone to assume a T6 ship will start where a top-end ship such as Fleet ships end and then add onto that, which seems to not necessarily be the case. This leads to a possibly false baseline for comparison, and alot of people feeling the T6 ships are out of place.
Note however, that T5 ships are -not- Fleet or Z-store refit ships, but ships such as the Federation Assault Cruiser. T6 would be the next step up from these ships. Z-store and Fleet ships are also a step up from T5 ships, so how T6 ships compare to Fleet and Refit classes is questionable, but it can be extrapolated somewhat from what we do know.
For comparison, I've examined everything put out about the T6 ships and the T5U upgrades, and would like to put the following up for comparison purposes. Note that I am restricting the comparisons to the T5 ships that are open for Upgrade status, as that is the point of this thread, and that the T6 ship and exact bonus console identification from the Upgrades here are best estimates based on what has been said, and are in no way official.
T5U Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit Upgrade (Fleet Z-store) : Hull: 42,900 + 1000 per skill level est. , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 800, Consoles: Tactical: 4, Engineering: 5, Science: 2, Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.10, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.) , Specialist: - , Special Abilities: 4 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery abilities, Assault Cruiser Console Compatibility, Power: +10 Weapon, +5 Aux, +5 Shields, Cost: 2500 or 3500 Z (2500 if purchased alone, 3500 if the Assault Cruiser Refit is purchased to provide this ship with the consoles expected of this ship) (est.).
T6 Squid Expeditionary Assault Cruiser (Z-store) : Hull: 38000 + 1000 per skill level est. , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 1000, Consoles: Tactical: 3, Engineering: 5, Science: 2 , Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.0, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.), Specialist: 1 (Ens.), Special Abilities: 3 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery Abilities, Starship Trait, Salvage Beam Console (acts as a Tractor Beam for up to 3 enemy targets at once), Power: +5 to All Four Systems, Cost: 3000 Z (est.).
The reason I put those up is to put in a bit of context that is currently missing in our discussion. I've tried to be as accurate as possible on the Squid (yes, my own holder name for the presumed Fed T6 ship) based on what has been told to us, though the hull points may start at 39000 or even 40000. I believe the others are a fairly close approximation for what should be the kind of ship we're looking at.
So, if the above is close to the mark, is the T6 ship vastly superior to the T5U ships? Different, yes, but really better? Do the arguments that the T5U ships will be automatically inferior still hold up?
My point is that we don't have solid info on any T6 ship to make an accurate assessment, and much of what we have heard is more towards the idea that these ships will be a step up from the 'normal' T5 ships, not from the Z-store Refit and Fleet ships, to which they should be on par with once those ships are Upgraded (or even slightly inferior to in certain ways). I would therefore propose we table the claims that all T5U ships are worthless compared to T6 ships of the same kind until we actually have a T6 ship to make a good evaluation with.
I agree with you, but not to diminish your opinion, Fleet ships are more of a cash grab than Dreadnoughts. 2000 zen(C-Store ship) + 500zen (Fleet Ship Module) +500 zen (half upgrade) = 3000 zen. 500 zen > 2500 zen to upgrade your Dreadnought. Either way, I agree with you and feel, as it has been put before, Zynga-licious
No the Dreadnaught costs 2000zen. I have the dreadnaught and I did not pay $20. I paid 2000zen.
Okay, I was going to post here before (other than in a reply to what someone else had said), but decided to wait and consider a bit more before doing so.
I think the problem right now is a lack of information on what a T6 ship will actually be in direct comparison to current top-end ships. This leaves everyone to assume a T6 ship will start where a top-end ship such as Fleet ships end and then add onto that, which seems to not necessarily be the case. This leads to a possibly false baseline for comparison, and alot of people feeling the T6 ships are out of place.
Note however, that T5 ships are -not- Fleet or Z-store refit ships, but ships such as the Federation Assault Cruiser. T6 would be the next step up from these ships. Z-store and Fleet ships are also a step up from T5 ships, so how T6 ships compare to Fleet and Refit classes is questionable, but it can be extrapolated somewhat from what we do know.
For comparison, I've examined everything put out about the T6 ships and the T5U upgrades, and would like to put the following up for comparison purposes. Note that I am restricting the comparisons to the T5 ships that are open for Upgrade status, as that is the point of this thread, and that the T6 ship and exact bonus console identification from the Upgrades here are best estimates based on what has been said, and are in no way official.
T5U Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit Upgrade (Fleet Z-store) : Hull: 42,900 + 1000 per skill level est. , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 800, Consoles: Tactical: 4, Engineering: 5, Science: 2, Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.10, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.) , Specialist: - , Special Abilities: 4 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery abilities, Assault Cruiser Console Compatibility, Power: +10 Weapon, +5 Aux, +5 Shields, Cost: 2500 or 3500 Z (2500 if purchased alone, 3500 if the Assault Cruiser Refit is purchased to provide this ship with the consoles expected of this ship) (est.).
T6 Squid Expeditionary Assault Cruiser (Z-store) : Hull: 38000 + 1000 per skill level est. , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 1000, Consoles: Tactical: 3, Engineering: 5, Science: 2 , Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.0, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.), Specialist: 1 (Ens.), Special Abilities: 3 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery Abilities, Starship Trait, Salvage Beam Console (acts as a Tractor Beam for up to 3 enemy targets at once), Power: +5 to All Four Systems, Cost: 3000 Z (est.).
The reason I put those up is to put in a bit of context that is currently missing in our discussion. I've tried to be as accurate as possible on the Squid (yes, my own holder name for the presumed Fed T6 ship) based on what has been told to us, though the hull points may start at 39000 or even 40000. I believe the others are a fairly close approximation for what should be the kind of ship we're looking at.
So, if the above is close to the mark, is the T6 ship vastly superior to the T5U ships? Different, yes, but really better? Do the arguments that the T5U ships will be automatically inferior still hold up?
My point is that we don't have solid info on any T6 ship to make an accurate assessment, and much of what we have heard is more towards the idea that these ships will be a step up from the 'normal' T5 ships, not from the Z-store Refit and Fleet ships, to which they should be on par with once those ships are Upgraded (or even slightly inferior to in certain ways). I would therefore propose we table the claims that all T5U ships are worthless compared to T6 ships of the same kind until we actually have a T6 ship to make a good evaluation with.
My two cents.
No I don't think you understand. Everybody against T6 ships are saying that T6 ships are so vastly superior to T5 upgraded ships that they are forced to upgrade to T6 ships. They know this because...reasons.
I am ok with the T6 ships. I will upgrade my ships and they will be awesome. However, I do agree that people want to fly around in their favorite ships. I wan to fly around in a Galaxy warship. But I don't have that option. If that is what you people are complaining about now its about 4 years too late.
No I don't think you understand. Everybody against T6 ships are saying that T6 ships are so vastly superior to T5 upgraded ships that they are forced to upgrade to T6 ships. They know this because...reasons.
I am ok with the T6 ships. I will upgrade my ships and they will be awesome. However, I do agree that people want to fly around in their favorite ships. I wan to fly around in a Galaxy warship. But I don't have that option. If that is what you people are complaining about now its about 4 years too late.
I sorta feel the same way. I also want to fly around in my fleet galaxy X's. But it's hardly worth it if it's sub-par(T5-U11) compared to the T6. note: I said if. I don't want to just be "competitive". It doesn't do my ship, or anyone else's, justice. I, to be honest, have gotten attached to the ships I have. It hurts to see them be put as second rate. At this point its obvious nobody cares what time and money went into what we do have. But for sentimentality sake, don't make our ships just "competitive". They deserve more. On another note, when will we be getting the official stats on the new upgraded fleet ships? Anyone know?
There was supposed to be a Utopia Planitia Ship Report...but as I type it, that blog's still MIA. No guarantee that blog was going to have that information...but it's a ship report, eh? But no post yet...meh.
There was supposed to be a Utopia Planitia Ship Report...but as I type it, that blog's still MIA. No guarantee that blog was going to have that information...but it's a ship report, eh? But no post yet...meh.
There was supposed to be a Utopia Planitia Ship Report...but as I type it, that blog's still MIA. No guarantee that blog was going to have that information...but it's a ship report, eh? But no post yet...meh.
Well it does have a picture of an Intrepid over it, maybe it is a T6 Intrepid with a secondary deflector, 4 tac consoles, and a LtCom tac. That is about the only thing that will move me from my Wells.
On the serious side I expect T6 ship stats will be one of the last things we find out about, probably not until October right before the release.
I sorta feel the same way. I also want to fly around in my fleet galaxy X's. But it's hardly worth it if it's sub-par(T5-U11) compared to the T6. note: I said if. I don't want to just be "competitive". It doesn't do my ship, or anyone else's, justice. I, to be honest, have gotten attached to the ships I have. It hurts to see them be put as second rate. At this point its obvious nobody cares what time and money went into what we do have. But for sentimentality sake, don't make our ships just "competitive". They deserve more. On another note, when will we be getting the official stats on the new upgraded fleet ships? Anyone know?
I don't think they'll be putting out exact stats on each Upgrade that is possible until we're closer to the actual implementation, due to the massive work it would be to list them all in detail. While putting together my post above, I went off the following:
Specifically: "If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot"
So for now, I would just use the current stats for the Fleet ship in question and add those specific qualities to it's abilities (so a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit that is Upgraded would have 11 console slots instead of the 10 of the standard Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit or T6 ships).
I don't think they'll be putting out exact stats on each Upgrade that is possible until we're closer to the actual implementation, due to the massive work it would be to list them all in detail. While putting together my post above, I went off the following:
Specifically: "If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot"
So for now, I would just use the current stats for the Fleet ship in question and add those specific qualities to it's abilities (so a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit that is Upgraded would have 11 console slots instead of the 10 of the standard Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit or T6 ships).
I would still like our old ships to get the special boff slot and the T6 ship trait I heard about. Although, the boff slot could be argued in terms of canon but, why not have it? It sure would be nice.
I would still like our old ships to get the special boff slot and the T6 ship trait I heard about. Although, the boff slot could be argued in terms of canon but, why not have it? It sure would be nice.
Well, they do want T6 ships to have their own qualities to set them apart. Those that want those Special BOFF slots will play the T6 ships, while those that want the extra Console will play one of the Upgraded ships. Adding the extra Console -and- the Special BOFF slot would probably result in the Upgrades eclipsing the new ships.
Now, if that's ultimately what the Devs decide is what should be done (the fact that an Upgraded Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit can run up to 3500 Zen to purchase wouldn't make this necessarily out of the question), then fine. However, let's not ignore what we -are- getting. That extra slot can be a very nice thing for any ship running special Consoles.
Greetings,
As the upgrade tab has been revealed, upgraded T5 ships shall not have half of things T6 shall have. (It has not be told if the tab shown in the blog is applied to the C-Store ships) Also, I think those unique T6 ship features are the most important and shall be a requirement to play PvP.
The chart applies to all T6 and upgradable T5s, whether C-Store, Lockbox, Lobi, etc. Therefore, yes, the T5Us lack the 5th "mastery" slot which assigns the missing starship trait, the T6 ships have a 13th BOff slot and can seat the new, unknown specialist BOffs.
However, it was said in this thread that the "baseline" of T6 will be the "original" T5 ships, the ones you get at L40. This means that the +1 console on T6 is going from 9 -> 10, and the stats will be +10% higher than the basic RSV, DSSV, Patrol escort, Star Cruiser, etc.
T6 baseline stats will be more akin to a fleet ship right now (as both get +10% hull, +10% shields, 10 consoles), and the T6 gets the mastery stuff, 13th BOff, etc. T5Us, especially fleet level ones, will go from 10 -> 11 consoles, and already have the "initial" +10% set and will get a second set going to T5U.
Does one console and a secondary +10% set of stats equate to that 13th BOff slot and what specialists bring to the table? Awaiting those blogs, but we're pretty close to being "competitive" - especially if there's some sort of innate console cooldown reduction...
There is no way to call it any good as the players are paying not only for the stats but for the looks too.
Please, request a proper T6 upgrade for the existing T5 ships. Most of them are canon and are the nicest ships in the game. If the developers are holding those unique functions to force people to buy proper T6 ships, why simply not to rise the price of the T5 ship upgrade? Make it to cost 2000 zen to upgrade T5 ship, or even 2500, but to have a proper upgrade.
Thanks
The elephant in the room, as it were. If you search my name, you'll see me spar with a person in this very thread that ranted about buying the "canon" Galaxy-X, the day before DR was announced. That timing is interesting, because this was months after the "what's wrong with the Galaxy" thread Mk II started, and dragged the Gal-X in.
That's proof that people want "canon", sometimes greater than "gameplay". Therefore, to make money, we can't have both in one ship. Suboptimal but "useful" canon ships (so we can fly our TV favorites and enjoy our game) and the funky-looking but game-powerful ships that can be "thrown away" when the next greatest funky ship (really, blue is the new white/gray? Scanlines necessary to use specialist powers?) comes along with the toys that will sell it - cause rarely will someone buy a T6 for the looks...
Cause - like the Scimitar and Excelsior - when Canon and gameplay power mesh in a solid pairing, many people start to "fall off" the zen purchase wagon and sit in their favorite ship...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Comments
Maybe .
I doubt it with how good players are. Stat wise it might appeal, but in actual application that's an entirely different story. We will have to wait and see.
People don't want to use the Robocop-Cylon wannabe designs. They want the Defiant. They want the Rotarran. They want the N'ventnar. They want their ship, not the new designs, and they have bonded with their ships for four years. Four. That's countless hours, countless victories, and countless defeats.
Print this out and paste it over the whiteboard that contains all the great ideas for new T6 ships... START there and work up.
Give me a top end T6 Sovereign and I'll buy it... A T6 connie and I'll buy 10. However the the Cryptic ship designers have gone off the deep end pushing for "different and exciting designs" Just because it's different and gets people excited doesn't mean it's good.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
I would be happy with a Typhoon, and there are people who would be happy with a Jupiter.
Not all of them, not a single MU ship on the list that I can see. And the event ships they rolled into the fleet system aren't free either. Look at my sig- a FREE 10 console Chel Grett is upgraded for FREE, a 9 console Kamarag event ship is 2K zen PLUS whatever their upgrade fee is.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
btw... I'd expect this thread to get the merge treatment at some point. A lot of threads already to sort out.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
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I feel pretty confident my upgraded Vesta with an extra console will hold her own. I could add more shields and swap out something for more hull defense and maybe 1 trait swap and she will be much stouter still in comparison to her foes now.
The T'varo also will be fine because it will seldom get hit.
The others, yeah, they probably will struggle.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I said virtually the same thing in an another thread earlier so I cant help but agree.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
AMEN. The uproar is because we want to fly the ship of our choice and still be AS GOOD, not have some cryptic mandated T6 ship forced on us. Let existing ships upgrade to T6, even at cost, and these threads wouldn't be hundreds of pages long.
Will you get one-shotted endlessly in the new stuff without a T6 ship? no. It'll simply be slightly more challenging that otherwise.
My character Tsin'xing
It has been told already that an upgraded T5 ship shall lack extra bridge officer ability. Not the specialist one, but the ability slot for a regular bridge station station.
Beside additional bo station, T6 shall get unique Specialist officer station. It is a way better than the upgraded T5.
Only one single additional regular bo station ability shows that T6 is overpowered towards T5. This ability can be anything, Eng Team, Sci Team or a copy of a skill you are using already to cut its cd.
Still it is unknown what kind of skill shall have Specialist. Doubt those shall give only cosmetic effect.
For now, upgraded T5 compared to T6 seems to be as good as the current free lvl40 Star Cruiser against Galor.
If developers want to make many it is ok. Give a proper update for the T5 to become real, full T6 and feel free to charge for it.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
Hey! Maybe this will make the hyper-elite PVE heroes who whine that everything's too easy just play level 60 content in t5 ships!
That would be challenging. Like doing ISE in a baseline Defiant.
I remember back during the [Borg] weapons days running STFs in a platoon of all NX's.
Good times.
Something that might cut down on some the back and forth (frustration on one side from not knowing, frustration from the other side in having to point to it over and over, frustration on one side not believing that, frustration from the other side in not being believed, and flamewar!) between folks...
...would be if Geko's and Gorngonzolla's posts could either be linked in the OP or added as part of the Q&A to the blogs. Not everybody out there knows about or uses the dev tracker, so they may not have seen the posts. Others may simply not have seen the posts (or multiple references to the posts) in this growing threadnaught.
Cause a lot of the stuff ends up going back to the same questions/arguments that have already been answered and played out multiple times in the thread...
Well said!
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
You will undoubtedly need it to be viable in PvP. Also, I never said that I personally optimize builds. I just know that there are many who do, whether they could get by without it or not.
Most people don't play games so that they just get by with what they have - they try to be as well-equipped as possible.
Obsolete. You see where it implies the item can't be used effectively anymore? I certainly don't.
I do, however, see where it says the items are no longer in use because something new/better exists.
This does not appear to be a figure based on the mathematical facts of the game. No price has been given for the upgrades, no 8000 dil per day limit has been accounted for, and no changes in the zen-dil exchange rate were considered.
Therefore, I cannot take this statement seriously.
I think the problem right now is a lack of information on what a T6 ship will actually be in direct comparison to current top-end ships. This leaves everyone to assume a T6 ship will start where a top-end ship such as Fleet ships end and then add onto that, which seems to not necessarily be the case. This leads to a possibly false baseline for comparison, and alot of people feeling the T6 ships are out of place.
Note however, that T5 ships are -not- Fleet or Z-store refit ships, but ships such as the Federation Assault Cruiser. T6 would be the next step up from these ships. Z-store and Fleet ships are also a step up from T5 ships, so how T6 ships compare to Fleet and Refit classes is questionable, but it can be extrapolated somewhat from what we do know.
For comparison, I've examined everything put out about the T6 ships and the T5U upgrades, and would like to put the following up for comparison purposes. Note that I am restricting the comparisons to the T5 ships that are open for Upgrade status, as that is the point of this thread, and that the T6 ship and exact bonus console identification from the Upgrades here are best estimates based on what has been said, and are in no way official.
T5+ Assault Cruiser Refit (Z-store) : Hull: 39000 , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 800, Consoles: Tactical: 3, Engineering: 4, Science: 2, Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.0, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.), Specialist: - , Special Abilities: Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo, Metron Gas Console, 4 Cruiser Commands, Power: +10 Weapons, +5 Aux, +5 Shield, Cost: 2500 Z .
T5+ Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit (Fleet Z-Store) : Hull: 42,900 , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 800 , Consoles: Tactical: 4, Engineering: 4, Science: 2, Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.10, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.), Specialist: - , Special Abilities: 4 Cruiser Commands, Assault Cruiser Console Compatibility, Power: +10 Weapons, +5 Aux, +5 Shield, Cost: 2000 or 3000 Z (2000 if purchased alone, 3000 total if the Assault Cruiser Refit is purchased to provide this ship with the consoles expected of this ship) .
T5U Assault Cruiser Refit Upgrade (Z-store) : Hull: 39000 + 1000 per skill level est., Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 800, Consoles: Tactical: 3, Engineering: 5, Science: 2, Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.0, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.), Specialist: - , Special Abilities: Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo, Metron Gas Console, 4 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery abilities, Power: +10 Weapon, +5 Aux, +5 Shield, Cost: 3000 Z (est).
T5U Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit Upgrade (Fleet Z-store) : Hull: 42,900 + 1000 per skill level est. , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 800, Consoles: Tactical: 4, Engineering: 5, Science: 2, Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.10, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.) , Specialist: - , Special Abilities: 4 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery abilities, Assault Cruiser Console Compatibility, Power: +10 Weapon, +5 Aux, +5 Shields, Cost: 2500 or 3500 Z (2500 if purchased alone, 3500 if the Assault Cruiser Refit is purchased to provide this ship with the consoles expected of this ship) (est.).
T6 Squid Expeditionary Assault Cruiser (Z-store) : Hull: 38000 + 1000 per skill level est. , Forward Weapons: 4, Aft Weapons: 4, Crew: 1000, Consoles: Tactical: 3, Engineering: 5, Science: 2 , Turn Rate: 7, Shield Mod: 1.0, Officers: Tactical: 2 (Lt.Com, Ens.), Engineering: 2 (Comm, Lt.), Science: - , Universal: 1 (Lt.), Specialist: 1 (Ens.), Special Abilities: 3 Cruiser Commands, 4 levels of Mastery Abilities, Starship Trait, Salvage Beam Console (acts as a Tractor Beam for up to 3 enemy targets at once), Power: +5 to All Four Systems, Cost: 3000 Z (est.).
The reason I put those up is to put in a bit of context that is currently missing in our discussion. I've tried to be as accurate as possible on the Squid (yes, my own holder name for the presumed Fed T6 ship) based on what has been told to us, though the hull points may start at 39000 or even 40000. I believe the others are a fairly close approximation for what should be the kind of ship we're looking at.
So, if the above is close to the mark, is the T6 ship vastly superior to the T5U ships? Different, yes, but really better? Do the arguments that the T5U ships will be automatically inferior still hold up?
My point is that we don't have solid info on any T6 ship to make an accurate assessment, and much of what we have heard is more towards the idea that these ships will be a step up from the 'normal' T5 ships, not from the Z-store Refit and Fleet ships, to which they should be on par with once those ships are Upgraded (or even slightly inferior to in certain ways). I would therefore propose we table the claims that all T5U ships are worthless compared to T6 ships of the same kind until we actually have a T6 ship to make a good evaluation with.
My two cents.
No the Dreadnaught costs 2000zen. I have the dreadnaught and I did not pay $20. I paid 2000zen.
So how is it extortion?
You quoted the wrong guy lol, madmoo is the guy who brought up extortion and $20. not me
No I don't think you understand. Everybody against T6 ships are saying that T6 ships are so vastly superior to T5 upgraded ships that they are forced to upgrade to T6 ships. They know this because...reasons.
I am ok with the T6 ships. I will upgrade my ships and they will be awesome. However, I do agree that people want to fly around in their favorite ships. I wan to fly around in a Galaxy warship. But I don't have that option. If that is what you people are complaining about now its about 4 years too late.
I sorta feel the same way. I also want to fly around in my fleet galaxy X's. But it's hardly worth it if it's sub-par(T5-U11) compared to the T6. note: I said if. I don't want to just be "competitive". It doesn't do my ship, or anyone else's, justice. I, to be honest, have gotten attached to the ships I have. It hurts to see them be put as second rate. At this point its obvious nobody cares what time and money went into what we do have. But for sentimentality sake, don't make our ships just "competitive". They deserve more. On another note, when will we be getting the official stats on the new upgraded fleet ships? Anyone know?
From this blog: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/6008273-starfleet-operations-report
Mentioned in this post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1203391
There was supposed to be a Utopia Planitia Ship Report...but as I type it, that blog's still MIA. No guarantee that blog was going to have that information...but it's a ship report, eh? But no post yet...meh.
None of those links contained the specifics.
Well it does have a picture of an Intrepid over it, maybe it is a T6 Intrepid with a secondary deflector, 4 tac consoles, and a LtCom tac. That is about the only thing that will move me from my Wells.
On the serious side I expect T6 ship stats will be one of the last things we find out about, probably not until October right before the release.
I don't think they'll be putting out exact stats on each Upgrade that is possible until we're closer to the actual implementation, due to the massive work it would be to list them all in detail. While putting together my post above, I went off the following:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18831241&postcount=331
Specifically: "If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot"
So for now, I would just use the current stats for the Fleet ship in question and add those specific qualities to it's abilities (so a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit that is Upgraded would have 11 console slots instead of the 10 of the standard Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit or T6 ships).
I would still like our old ships to get the special boff slot and the T6 ship trait I heard about. Although, the boff slot could be argued in terms of canon but, why not have it? It sure would be nice.
Well, they do want T6 ships to have their own qualities to set them apart. Those that want those Special BOFF slots will play the T6 ships, while those that want the extra Console will play one of the Upgraded ships. Adding the extra Console -and- the Special BOFF slot would probably result in the Upgrades eclipsing the new ships.
Now, if that's ultimately what the Devs decide is what should be done (the fact that an Upgraded Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit can run up to 3500 Zen to purchase wouldn't make this necessarily out of the question), then fine. However, let's not ignore what we -are- getting. That extra slot can be a very nice thing for any ship running special Consoles.
The chart applies to all T6 and upgradable T5s, whether C-Store, Lockbox, Lobi, etc. Therefore, yes, the T5Us lack the 5th "mastery" slot which assigns the missing starship trait, the T6 ships have a 13th BOff slot and can seat the new, unknown specialist BOffs.
However, it was said in this thread that the "baseline" of T6 will be the "original" T5 ships, the ones you get at L40. This means that the +1 console on T6 is going from 9 -> 10, and the stats will be +10% higher than the basic RSV, DSSV, Patrol escort, Star Cruiser, etc.
T6 baseline stats will be more akin to a fleet ship right now (as both get +10% hull, +10% shields, 10 consoles), and the T6 gets the mastery stuff, 13th BOff, etc. T5Us, especially fleet level ones, will go from 10 -> 11 consoles, and already have the "initial" +10% set and will get a second set going to T5U.
Does one console and a secondary +10% set of stats equate to that 13th BOff slot and what specialists bring to the table? Awaiting those blogs, but we're pretty close to being "competitive" - especially if there's some sort of innate console cooldown reduction...
The elephant in the room, as it were. If you search my name, you'll see me spar with a person in this very thread that ranted about buying the "canon" Galaxy-X, the day before DR was announced. That timing is interesting, because this was months after the "what's wrong with the Galaxy" thread Mk II started, and dragged the Gal-X in.
That's proof that people want "canon", sometimes greater than "gameplay". Therefore, to make money, we can't have both in one ship. Suboptimal but "useful" canon ships (so we can fly our TV favorites and enjoy our game) and the funky-looking but game-powerful ships that can be "thrown away" when the next greatest funky ship (really, blue is the new white/gray? Scanlines necessary to use specialist powers?) comes along with the toys that will sell it - cause rarely will someone buy a T6 for the looks...
Cause - like the Scimitar and Excelsior - when Canon and gameplay power mesh in a solid pairing, many people start to "fall off" the zen purchase wagon and sit in their favorite ship...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]