Okay. This is getting annoying, so let me address some points...
1. Geko has said, from Day 1, that T5U will not be true T6. This is intentional to make us want to buy T6. Obviously, from both the Trekkie's "prototypical" thought pattern (if it ain't canon, it ain't pretty enough to fly) to the completely "oddball" blue hull with scanline heaven design(s), they need to have "incentives" to drop ~$30 per on these ship(s).
1A. However, the claims have been made that T5U (upgraded T5s) will be "competitive" with these T6s. As all the information has not been released - will Specialits fit into universal slots? What will these new traits that primarily come from T6 ships do for you? What level of power will the 13th BOff slot be, and will the 11th console be able to compete with this? (remember, they're calculating the +1 console for T6 from the "baseline" of the L40 T5s, which only had 9. Therefore, T6s have 10 consoles. All T5Us get a bonus console, which, since many T5.5s have 10 to begin with, means the T5U version(s) of those ships will have 11...)
2. On the guess that T6 will cost ~$30, and that the T5Us (especially the T5U11 - 11 console versions - as we call it) will rank as "competitive" enough to work, "paying" the upgrade cost so that the total investment is $30 isn't a "problem" for me. Vesta, for example, is a $25 ship, and if the module costs $5, total investment $30. Galaxy-X is a $20, +$5 for fleet module (T5.5 level), $5 for upgrade = $30.
2A. To reiterate my math. 800 lobi ships "earn" Cryptic: based on an average of 5 lobi per box, it takes about 160 boxes to earn a ship. At $1.25 a key, this is $200. If the "grand prize" ships really drop at a rate of .1%, this means that 1 in a 1000 boxes release the ship. Again, at $1.25 a key, this is $1,250 (I was off a zero before...) that should have been dumped in for the RNG to "grace" us with one of those ships... Since both of these numbers are significantly higher than the $30 investment level for a T6 ship, they "deserve" to be upgraded to the T5U standard automatically. That, and when Fleet ships released in the first place, all existing lockbox-oriented ships automatically (and freely) received said upgrade, so the precedent is set.
Right now, I'll admit that the whole upgrade system "seems" promising while maintaining Cryptic's stated goal of "earning more money" and, oddly enough, maybe keeping the total investment the same for the various styles of power. Is this statement going to hold true? More blogs are required. How pretty am I sitting? That is a matter of debate, of my 3 "mains", all 3 of them fly a ship that will require upgrading (Fed Vesta, KDF C-store DSD, Rommie Fleet T'Varo), but I do have a fallback (Orb Weaver and Recluse on my Fed Main-main, grindaversary DSD on the KDF) And if/when finances permit, I am currently fairly tempted to buy at least 1 actual T6 to grind out a starship trait. Of course, I'm hedging bets right now and waiting for all this intel that has to be dribbled out in the name of "maintaining hype and interest"...
I won't cry foul on a "double-dip", unless the math holds it as true. I won't cry foul on the anticipated "competitiveness" unless either the math or practical experience holds true. Am I going to sing praises? No confirmation has been given to earn said praises. Will I be rightfully concerned? Yep. Can we just blow up the hype machine and get all the info to make proper decisions today? Does anyone have a starship with access to PWE headquarters?
I have a better idea until more facts. I'm not getting any Tier 6 ships or grinding the new coming grind fest.
The new content I'm assuming will be T5-U(Fleet) level so no need for Tier 6. Additionally, with the skill curve of the crafting system 2,000,000+ skill to get to tier 20 for one school. I'm assuming leveling ships will be at the pace same Additionally, I'm assuming fleet ships will be second best.
Cryptic is face palming and smacking their players around literally. I have a feeling the reason why this wasn't announced at the Las Vegas convention is because they would catch hell. They wasn't going make a bad announcement at the convention. Still they let players be low balled.
btw. how does it fit into the games concept that the flag ships of the federation, the klingon empire and the romulan republic are becoming "outdated junk"?
I don't have time to read all the posts that are written here so sorry if this was already mentioned.
I'd be happy if there would be way to sell upgrade tokens on exchange. It could work the same way the Fleet Modules work but it would be new/unique C-Store item. This way there would be more ways to obtain them as there are always players in need of EC that will be willing to sell it. With the current dilithium/zen exchange rates and number of alt characters and ships that I'd like to convert it would be of much help.
Captain Smirk, hope you can give your comment to this as I think so far it wasn't dismissed by the devs.
Thank you.
They have said that some/all upgrades may use a special upgrade item like Fleet ships require a Fleet Module. The only upgrade process in game currently is T5->Fleet, so it is logical to assume this is how T5->T5-U will work. The exact zen cost would be determined by how many of these zen store items you require to upgrade that ship.
This might even be the zen cost they talk about. One could say the cost of a Fleet ship is 2000 zen because they require 4 FM in the same way the devs now say T5-U will cost 500-1000 zen.
When you look at the games recent history you can be 99% sure upgrades will be handled through the c-store and those items can be sold to other players.
Ouch. My head hurts after reading each and every post in this thread (constant merges are worse than temporal paradoxes).
I'm not going to try and speak for anyone here but myself.
I have 4 alts with Chel Gretts (2 now fly Moghs) so I get a free upgrade on 4 alts for a ship I love. Nice. I have to pay for the Moghs? Okay so far, I'd have to to upgrade to Fleet Moghs anyway so not that bad, all things considered. I have the free dyson on most alts too and that's another free upgrade so still not too bad. I have the T'varo retrofit from the LOR Starter Pack I'll have to pay to upgrade... still not too bad. My wife? Pretty much in the same boat I am, ship-wise.
Where I think Cryptic have caused an issue is with the tier 5u and tier 6 nonsense. By creating a distinction between the 2 (arbitrary though it may be) they have created a divide between the 2. Further complicating things is the tier 5fu (fleet ships being upgraded). The number of consoles slots a given tier 5 ship has before upgrading adds further headaches.
Surely a better way of describing this would have been Cryptic - "Your favourite tier 5 ships (with some exceptions) can be fully upgraded to tier 6. T6 ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 6 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points. This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T6 starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
In addition to your newly upgraded T6 ships we will be introducing a few NEW T6 ships in the C-store which, in addition to the starship mastery and other benefits listed for upgraded T6 ships listed above, will showcase some exciting new features such as an upgraded BOFF seat and a Specialist BOFF seat with new hybrid powers **. These new ships will also feature a 5th level of starship mastery which will unlock a starship trait.
**Not all C-store T6 ships brought out in the future will have this specialist seating."
Would this have been easier to swallow for the players? All upgraded ships are T6, it's just that some new features will be made available through those T6 ships made especially for the C-store. I'd be fine with this description. We the players would need to make the choice between having the extra console, hull, etc. of an upgraded T6 (and any associated costs) and the altered BOFF seating of a C-store T6 plus an as yet un-described trait we'd probably have to slot in place of an existing one anyway. So far I see nothing new here that hasn't been done before. Ships that split, ships that have singularity cores, ships that have advanced battlecloak, ships that have all universal seating, ships with a new console/weapon/BOFF layout.
It's not that different from buying the "best" C-store ship for your toon and upgrading it to fleet and then Cryptic release a new ship that would be even better for your toon so you open your wallet again. The only difference is Cryptic are offering the chance to upgrade your already awesome ship for a fee/free instead of buying the new shiny.
The only issue left is fleet ships and those would surely now be considered T6fleet since the "fleet" is a modifier already and they'll still be better than other T6 upgrades.
I fly the ships I fly because I love them. Some of those will get a free upgrade so I'm happy. Will I buy a T6? Only if it's not fugly as all sin (like, sadly, most of the in-house designs look to me) and it's stats are something I can work with.
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Look, I can agree that Cryptic/PWE has to make money. I can agree that we have to pay for the T6 ships, not even making a problem with that. But I do not agree nor accept that we have to pay extra to upgrade those ships that we have already bought that have to be the top notch of the ships. Yes, the EULA and their TOS says that the product is subject to change, but NOT according to the European Warranty Law on software/games. And sorry to say, this one overules everything what's been mentioned in their EULA & TOS, the moment that this piece of software has hit the European market. Learn to life with that.
again, no and, erm no. they are not changiing the current content. the game, up
to level 50, will be the same as it has been thus far. the expansion, which you are
not being forced to pay for, constitutes a free additional to the current game, and
as stated on multiple occasions now, you can play it without any need of upgrading
or money to change hands.
it is new content in a FREE TO PLAY GAME. you dont have to pay anything!!!!!!!!!
by the same nonsense you are spouting, anyone who purchased a cstore T3 ship
should be able to demand it be upgraded to T4 then T5 then Fleet.. total tosh!!
Actually the topic should be related to here is "Tier V Ship Upgrades". Oh wait "It Is"! At this point as a player for STO and as a player voicing his concern I frankly am not concerned about the players voicing their concerns in supporting Cryptic and Perfectworld. In fact my concern isn't even if they work for Perfectworld at all because of the two following factors.
A: Holds no relative relation at all to the topic of this thread.
B: The concern of this thread is "Tier V Starship Upgrades". Headline, point made, no punt intended.
As far as conspiracies about Perfectworld, and the forums should be completely reserved for a different thread intirely.
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before itis too late..
Nobody has yet to argue with you and I'm not about to start. Right on man!
btw. how does it fit into the games concept that the flag ships of the federation, the klingon empire and the romulan republic are becoming "outdated junk"?
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
and who is to say that the current flagships will remain so?
Many posters have mentioned that this is a business and that the powers that be need to make money. IMO this is a very FLAWED way to look at the situation. Its the kind of thinking that drove Zynga into dust - cheap, poorly thought out gimmicky cash grabs like what we've been enduring.
Is STO a product? - Yes
What is that product? - A GAME!!!
What is a game supposed to be? - ... fun?
I see people sucking up to this and similar decisions and they are entitled to that opinion as I am mine. IMO this process could have been done in a much more thoughtful and FUN way. Hell, it could have been done in a way that might have been pleasurable to pay/grind for. Upgrading should have been part of the new R&D system. Something you could do after crafting a complete Aegis set for example. Wow - and that only took 5 seconds of thought to come up with.
But no - it seems that it has turned into another attempt to assimilate my credit card and after paying for C-Store items for the last 5 years - why do so many not understand the frustration? If they're really going to go this way - I think T5 C-Store ships should be free to upgrade as well. We didn't pay to have the 3rd-best tier, we paid for what we thought was top end game content. Sure its an MMO and things need to change from time to time - but to continue to go about initiatives this way will only get you so far for so long.
Its just so . . . Zynga-liscious.
OK so tell me this oh wise one. STO is free to play right? And we are not paying for this upcoming expansion, right? So how is Cryptic supposed to make money? And are you really complaining about 5 bucks. If you need that 5 bucks so bad maybe you need to reevaluate your expenses. And I bought my lifetime membership while the game was in beta and have not spent a dime on it after that. Its called the dil exchange. Or you can also take surveys to earn free zen. Its not that big of a deal.
I think that part of the concern stems from what Cryptic's definition of "competitive" means. No offense to Cryptic, but they have shown previously that a clear definitive term has a different meaning for them.
For example, the Cruiser's Weapon Aura grants a 25% weapon energy cost reduction actually comes out to 20%. They defended their usage by showing where in the formula the 25% is factored in and that is the actual 25% they were referring to. Any where else you go, 25% is 25% end result.
Basically, we just have to wait and see what they do. I do not expect that there will be no cost to upgrade. I do hope that they seriously consider making the upgrades more worthwhile than as it is planned. The extra BOff ability alone being added to it would make a huge difference to some.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Sorry dude, how do you not see this as pay to win? The only way to upgrade a T5 ship is to pay. (And they have already clearly stated that an upgrade will not be as good as a T6 ship) The only way mentioned to obtain a T6 ship is to pay. That is nothing BUT Pay to win since if you don't pay you are automatically at a disadvantage. STO has become the newest PTW. There is NOTHING in those blogsd but pay to win.
Oh is doing surveys for free zen or using the dil exchange paying for anything? And they said that it would be competitive. Some people with the best ships out there don't know how to pilot a starship and would lose to me in a tier 1 ship.
" Hell, it could have been done in a way that might have been pleasurable to pay/grind for. Upgrading should have been part of the new R&D system. Something you could do after crafting a complete Aegis set for example. Wow - and that only took 5 seconds of thought to come up with. "
Now imagine if I came up with concepts as my JOB and actually spent more than 5 seconds thinking of something.
Again - maybe it wouldn't have pleased everyone - but I'll bet there are a lot of peeps that would like the idea of customizing their ships first hand. *EDIT* - I'd pay Zen for components to make that happen if it was done right.
But you don't have to pay Zen for crafting. Just like you don't have to pay for the upgrades with your real money either.
This is how i see it, there is already more than enough Cstore Content in the game that you have to PAY for, if i've spent $25+ on a ship or package of ships that are Tier 5 why would i WANT to spend an additional $5 or $10 to upgrade them? it makes no freaking sense that Cstore ships aren't included in the Free to upgrade mess along with one free upgrade per char @ lvl 50... this entire system on what is supposed to be a F2P game is getting a BIT overzealous with the microtransactions and becoming more P2WIN, i started playing STO with the understanding that if i chose to never spend a dime on this game i could enjoy it, well ever since you killed Kerr'at warzone pvp and instituted all the Pay to win bs this game has really become unenjoyable which is why i quit playing for over a year, i came back with legacy of romulus in the hopes that the game would be better but honestly it's not, just more of the same "**** your wallet or make you grind incessantly" bs it was before.
Its a little bit of a grind. Isn't any MMO a grind? I play maybe an hour a day to grind. If you don't like it can I have all of your stuff when you leave?
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
Ummm, how do you know that T5-FU have more hull or shield strength over T6 ships when we have no clue about the T6 stats yet ? Fleet ships have more hull and shields than their base version, no idea how people can compare them to something that we know nothing about yet.
I think that part of the concern stems from what Cryptic's definition of "competitive" means. No offense to Cryptic, but they have shown previously that a clear definitive term has a different meaning for them.
For example, the Cruiser's Weapon Aura grants a 25% weapon energy cost reduction actually comes out to 20%. They defended their usage by showing where in the formula the 25% is factored in and that is the actual 25% they were referring to. Any where else you go, 25% is 25% end result.
Basically, we just have to wait and see what they do. I do not expect that there will be no cost to upgrade. I do hope that they seriously consider making the upgrades more worthwhile than as it is planned. The extra BOff ability alone being added to it would make a huge difference to some.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums.
"Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums."
I have to agree with what you are saying here. Voice is representation including to concerns like this. Well said.
:mad: i had just purchased the rommie dreadnought set - 2 days later they announce that they doing these upgrades - where i can after forking out 5k zen for the set upgrade them to T6 which will be a lil better but not as good as a T6 ability wise - and i will have to pay to upgrade my fleet avenger and any other bought/promotional ship i wish to use - leaving my jem which i can upgrade for free.
Maybe its time to switch to War commander or something else less heavy on the wallet
Nobody has a phaser set to kill pointed at your heads forcing you to agree with each other.
But I'm seeing a lot of snark and other nastiness in a number of these responses. There's no need to take shots at each other.
I highly suggest some of you edit your posts before Smirk sees them. He's not going to be gentle.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What about the gear? Cryptic/PWE has been charging us "end game prices" for the past 3 yrs. for our fleet weapons, shields, consoles, etc. I am not going to stand for having to vendor off my mk 12 fleet gear for energy credits- I ground my posterior off for that & anything less than full value on a trade in is not acceptable. This costs them nothing, they loose nothing & they keep vets like me happy. Had they let us set our own prices in our fleet stores, stores that we built, this wouldn't be an issue- but they didn't; they set the prices & charged us end game prices at that. They are out of their minds if they think I'm going to grind all over again for mk 14 fleet gear & vendor off my current mk 12 fleet gear for worthless ec's. Either free upgrades to mk 14 fleet gear or full value trade ins for our current fleet mk 12 gear are the only acceptable options here. That, or no mk 14 gear at all, period. This is why I stopped playing SWOTR & came back to STO to begin with. I didn't put up with it in SWTOR & I'm sure as hell not going to put up with it here. I have had enough grinding.
If you don't want to grind then pay money. I personally would rather grind than pay money. Simple. In every game there is grinding. Its not like STO hasn't done this before. Before there was fleet gear there was the borg gear. I grinded for that and when they released fleet gear I grinded for that too. So what is your point exactly?
Ummm, how do you know that T5-FU have more hull or shield strength over T6 ships when we have no clue about the T6 stats yet ? Fleet ships have more hull and shields than their base version, no idea how people can compare them to something that we know nothing about yet.
Based on dev comments outside the blog the T6 ships are an improvement over T5 ships in the same method as at other tiers. This means that would be the same quality as current Fleet ships. The T5-U11 (or upgraded Fleet ships) gain stats and +1 console above what they currently have.
I admit this is not set in stone. You have to read what the devs have said and decide for yourself.
I see A LOT of unhappy people skimming through the thread.
Seems they have one thing in common, being they want to see FULL TIER 6 UPGRADES to all tier 5 and tier 5.5 ships.
The other thing in common, is the fact that lockboxes, lobi and event ships are FREE, but not store.
Where is the harm in upgrading all ships to tier 6 and still release new tier 6 ships? None i can think of. People would still buy the new ones, because they are new.
I would be one of those who would buy the new tier 6 ships, PROVIDING I get full upgrade of my store ships to tier 6 as well because i like some of them, and really, ships like the Dyson science destroyer mega bundle, not even 9 months old yet.
I really hope Cryptic change their minds on this, if not, hope it fails them
Why would anybody buy new ships if your current ships can be upgraded to T6? If my scimi were a T6 then there is absolutely no reason to buy a T6 ship.
Thank you for separating the constructive and meaningful feedback from the rhetoric, Trevor. And then presenting it to the devs. You've earned your paycheck this week.
first time in a while that hes earned his paycheck... lol..
Nobody has a phaser set to kill pointed at your heads forcing you to agree with each other.
But I'm seeing a lot of snark and other nastiness in a number of these responses. There's no need to take shots at each other.
I highly suggest some of you edit your posts before Smirk sees them. He's not going to be gentle.
Nice warning. I think the problem now is Cryptic pissed off people to the point of not caring.
I always thought lock box ships was bad idea because of entitlement and how much people have to spend to get them. I still think fleet ships should be top of the line.
Why would anybody buy new ships if your current ships can be upgraded to T6? If my scimi were a T6 then there is absolutely no reason to buy a T6 ship.
because some people might like the new designs.. some people might welcome a new ship... its like when they release other t5 ships since launch. why would anyone buy those...
its a weak sauce argument to say they have to strong arm us into buying this ship... if that is indeed the case, it really shows how little they think of the ships, I mean, they would obviously think they couldn't stand on their own with out a little boost.. catch my meaning.
If you don't want to grind then pay money. I personally would rather grind than pay money. Simple. In every game there is grinding. Its not like STO hasn't done this before. Before there was fleet gear there was the borg gear. I grinded for that and when they released fleet gear I grinded for that too. So what is your point exactly?
What "your" concern here is that people are arguing about is rather they should "pay" vs "grind" for consoles and ships.
My point is this;
"Invest vs Reinvest"
At the heart of it all this is the concern that players have. Most either use lockboxes, EC, Zen etc etc for ship builds and ships. The issue is for most folks isn't just real money vs grinding. But reinvesting in what is a long haul investment since day one playing this game we have the following to look at here.
1: Lock Boxes
2: Reputation
3: Fleet Projects
4: Z Store
Now how does this all factor in you might ask? Simple, the source for our ship builds that is how. This is both on the PVE side and yes even on the PVP side. And for the folks already that have had built their ships and yes I do highlight the word, "invested" much in their ships as well. With that being said now they introduce Tier VI which I have no concern with. But the money both in game and out of pocket already invested in what the past two seasons for Plasma Infused Consoles, Dyson Consoles to already stack up with the Fleet Modules on Tier V ships both Fleet and Store as well as Lock Box ships too. I wouldn't blame the folks being upset for having now to cough money for ships they already invested in. So the issue again is not "Grind vs Pay" but "Invest vs Reinvest". And on a side note about "Most MMO's" That has been argued a lot and still there are other MMO's that go outside the norms that Perfectworld deploys here. So to me that is just another sterotypical argument about MMO's in general.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach.
i agree! we know that those who accept any given change are far less inclined to post
about it, but there will also be those who disagree and say nothing too. so as it stands,
even though forum users are a vocal minority, it should in no way diminish the value of
our concerns and constructive feedback pos/neg coming from these threads. that being
said, it is sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees, especially in a threadnought
such as this.
An additional boff slot- even if it was just an ensign- does not make the t5us in any way comparable. It makes them obsolete.
Giving people an incentive to fly your new ships is understandable. Trying to force them to fly them just to be competitive and not be mocked when we go in pves with them is not.
I would have been fine if you needed to fly the new tier 6s to unlock the starship trait, which you could then use on your tier 5us. I would have bought a whole bunch of the new tier 6s to get the traits, and gone back to my tier 5us on most of my characters, keeping a few tier 6s in service if I liked them. I'm even fine if the specialist boff is only usable on the new ships. Or even if the only way to get a specialist boff is to purchase the tier 6 it comes with.
Now, you've lost my money. And you're beginning to lose my interest.
You see, I like the ships I have. I want to fly something that's a little different, and not one of 10 or even 20 new ships that everyone else flies. Part of what is attractive about this game is the vast number of ships to choose from. You've just eliminated most of them from consideration from serious players. And a lot of people like me- don't actually like what we've seen of the way the new ships look, anyways.
Did you really think this through? The lockbox ships and jem hadar attack ship are a huge moneymaker for you guys. It's a lot easier to convince people to pay $5 for keys/doff boxes if they might get a top-notch ship and a bunch of other goodies. Plus, everyone likes random grabbags. It's like opening presents. Not a lot of people are going to do that, though, if what they're getting is inferior. I know I won't.
It's a lot harder to convince people to pay $30 or $50 for a new ship.
Last, but not least, is whole zen thing. I'm not happy with the way you expressed the cost to upgrade in terms of dollars. It's a blatant money-grab. At least say 500-1000 ZEN.
With the introduction of a new tier of weapons and ships, you're looking at potentially obsoleting a lot of things that cost dilithium- such as fleet equiptment. One of the great things about STO is the dilithium-zen market. I spend dil, I get zen from those people who are too impatient to save up- or have more to spare in dollars than hours Already the market has gone up to 190 dil/zen since the announcement of tier 6 and tier 5u ships. Coincidence? I think not. I'm not happy at the fact that I may be having to look at paying maybe 500 dil/zen down the road, since so many good things cost zen and the things that cost dil are obsolete- so not a lot of people are going to want dil. That seems like a potential money loss for you, too- if people are paying zen to get zen stuff, but not to buy dil, you could lose out.
And what about fleet ships? If you just get the same upgrade you would from the base ship, then nobody will get fleet ships anymore either. Heck, with the tier 5u system as it stands, people will rarely want them. I worked hard at getting my fed and klingon fleet to a high tier. Is that work now wasted? Is the fleet system obsolete, too? And is what I spend on fleet ships now wasted?
Um. Could you please explain how fleet ships are obsolete? They have an extra console slot, and have more hull and shields? Did Cryptic make weapons obsolete before, when they went from borg weapons to fleet weapons?
Comments
I have a better idea until more facts. I'm not getting any Tier 6 ships or grinding the new coming grind fest.
The new content I'm assuming will be T5-U(Fleet) level so no need for Tier 6. Additionally, with the skill curve of the crafting system 2,000,000+ skill to get to tier 20 for one school. I'm assuming leveling ships will be at the pace same Additionally, I'm assuming fleet ships will be second best.
Cryptic is face palming and smacking their players around literally. I have a feeling the reason why this wasn't announced at the Las Vegas convention is because they would catch hell. They wasn't going make a bad announcement at the convention. Still they let players be low balled.
They have said that some/all upgrades may use a special upgrade item like Fleet ships require a Fleet Module. The only upgrade process in game currently is T5->Fleet, so it is logical to assume this is how T5->T5-U will work. The exact zen cost would be determined by how many of these zen store items you require to upgrade that ship.
This might even be the zen cost they talk about. One could say the cost of a Fleet ship is 2000 zen because they require 4 FM in the same way the devs now say T5-U will cost 500-1000 zen.
When you look at the games recent history you can be 99% sure upgrades will be handled through the c-store and those items can be sold to other players.
I'm not going to try and speak for anyone here but myself.
I have 4 alts with Chel Gretts (2 now fly Moghs) so I get a free upgrade on 4 alts for a ship I love. Nice. I have to pay for the Moghs? Okay so far, I'd have to to upgrade to Fleet Moghs anyway so not that bad, all things considered. I have the free dyson on most alts too and that's another free upgrade so still not too bad. I have the T'varo retrofit from the LOR Starter Pack I'll have to pay to upgrade... still not too bad. My wife? Pretty much in the same boat I am, ship-wise.
Where I think Cryptic have caused an issue is with the tier 5u and tier 6 nonsense. By creating a distinction between the 2 (arbitrary though it may be) they have created a divide between the 2. Further complicating things is the tier 5fu (fleet ships being upgraded). The number of consoles slots a given tier 5 ship has before upgrading adds further headaches.
Surely a better way of describing this would have been
Cryptic - "Your favourite tier 5 ships (with some exceptions) can be fully upgraded to tier 6. T6 ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 6 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points. This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T6 starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
In addition to your newly upgraded T6 ships we will be introducing a few NEW T6 ships in the C-store which, in addition to the starship mastery and other benefits listed for upgraded T6 ships listed above, will showcase some exciting new features such as an upgraded BOFF seat and a Specialist BOFF seat with new hybrid powers **. These new ships will also feature a 5th level of starship mastery which will unlock a starship trait.
**Not all C-store T6 ships brought out in the future will have this specialist seating."
Would this have been easier to swallow for the players? All upgraded ships are T6, it's just that some new features will be made available through those T6 ships made especially for the C-store. I'd be fine with this description. We the players would need to make the choice between having the extra console, hull, etc. of an upgraded T6 (and any associated costs) and the altered BOFF seating of a C-store T6 plus an as yet un-described trait we'd probably have to slot in place of an existing one anyway. So far I see nothing new here that hasn't been done before. Ships that split, ships that have singularity cores, ships that have advanced battlecloak, ships that have all universal seating, ships with a new console/weapon/BOFF layout.
It's not that different from buying the "best" C-store ship for your toon and upgrading it to fleet and then Cryptic release a new ship that would be even better for your toon so you open your wallet again. The only difference is Cryptic are offering the chance to upgrade your already awesome ship for a fee/free instead of buying the new shiny.
The only issue left is fleet ships and those would surely now be considered T6fleet since the "fleet" is a modifier already and they'll still be better than other T6 upgrades.
I fly the ships I fly because I love them. Some of those will get a free upgrade so I'm happy. Will I buy a T6? Only if it's not fugly as all sin (like, sadly, most of the in-house designs look to me) and it's stats are something I can work with.
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
again, no and, erm no. they are not changiing the current content. the game, up
to level 50, will be the same as it has been thus far. the expansion, which you are
not being forced to pay for, constitutes a free additional to the current game, and
as stated on multiple occasions now, you can play it without any need of upgrading
or money to change hands.
it is new content in a FREE TO PLAY GAME. you dont have to pay anything!!!!!!!!!
by the same nonsense you are spouting, anyone who purchased a cstore T3 ship
should be able to demand it be upgraded to T4 then T5 then Fleet.. total tosh!!
Actually the topic should be related to here is "Tier V Ship Upgrades". Oh wait "It Is"! At this point as a player for STO and as a player voicing his concern I frankly am not concerned about the players voicing their concerns in supporting Cryptic and Perfectworld. In fact my concern isn't even if they work for Perfectworld at all because of the two following factors.
A: Holds no relative relation at all to the topic of this thread.
B: The concern of this thread is "Tier V Starship Upgrades". Headline, point made, no punt intended.
As far as conspiracies about Perfectworld, and the forums should be completely reserved for a different thread intirely.
Thank you for your patronage.
Nobody has yet to argue with you and I'm not about to start. Right on man!
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
and who is to say that the current flagships will remain so?
OK so tell me this oh wise one. STO is free to play right? And we are not paying for this upcoming expansion, right? So how is Cryptic supposed to make money? And are you really complaining about 5 bucks. If you need that 5 bucks so bad maybe you need to reevaluate your expenses. And I bought my lifetime membership while the game was in beta and have not spent a dime on it after that. Its called the dil exchange. Or you can also take surveys to earn free zen. Its not that big of a deal.
For example, the Cruiser's Weapon Aura grants a 25% weapon energy cost reduction actually comes out to 20%. They defended their usage by showing where in the formula the 25% is factored in and that is the actual 25% they were referring to. Any where else you go, 25% is 25% end result.
Basically, we just have to wait and see what they do. I do not expect that there will be no cost to upgrade. I do hope that they seriously consider making the upgrades more worthwhile than as it is planned. The extra BOff ability alone being added to it would make a huge difference to some.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums.
Oh is doing surveys for free zen or using the dil exchange paying for anything? And they said that it would be competitive. Some people with the best ships out there don't know how to pilot a starship and would lose to me in a tier 1 ship.
But you don't have to pay Zen for crafting. Just like you don't have to pay for the upgrades with your real money either.
Really? So enlighten us as to what they are so we can share in your thoughts.
Its a little bit of a grind. Isn't any MMO a grind? I play maybe an hour a day to grind. If you don't like it can I have all of your stuff when you leave?
Ummm, how do you know that T5-FU have more hull or shield strength over T6 ships when we have no clue about the T6 stats yet ? Fleet ships have more hull and shields than their base version, no idea how people can compare them to something that we know nothing about yet.
"Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums."
I have to agree with what you are saying here. Voice is representation including to concerns like this. Well said.
You know that you can get free zen right?
Nobody has a phaser set to kill pointed at your heads forcing you to agree with each other.
But I'm seeing a lot of snark and other nastiness in a number of these responses. There's no need to take shots at each other.
I highly suggest some of you edit your posts before Smirk sees them. He's not going to be gentle.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
It's to be expected when the mass majority are not listened to. But, whatever...
If you don't want to grind then pay money. I personally would rather grind than pay money. Simple. In every game there is grinding. Its not like STO hasn't done this before. Before there was fleet gear there was the borg gear. I grinded for that and when they released fleet gear I grinded for that too. So what is your point exactly?
Based on dev comments outside the blog the T6 ships are an improvement over T5 ships in the same method as at other tiers. This means that would be the same quality as current Fleet ships. The T5-U11 (or upgraded Fleet ships) gain stats and +1 console above what they currently have.
I admit this is not set in stone. You have to read what the devs have said and decide for yourself.
Why would anybody buy new ships if your current ships can be upgraded to T6? If my scimi were a T6 then there is absolutely no reason to buy a T6 ship.
first time in a while that hes earned his paycheck... lol..
Nice warning. I think the problem now is Cryptic pissed off people to the point of not caring.
I always thought lock box ships was bad idea because of entitlement and how much people have to spend to get them. I still think fleet ships should be top of the line.
because some people might like the new designs.. some people might welcome a new ship... its like when they release other t5 ships since launch. why would anyone buy those...
its a weak sauce argument to say they have to strong arm us into buying this ship... if that is indeed the case, it really shows how little they think of the ships, I mean, they would obviously think they couldn't stand on their own with out a little boost.. catch my meaning.
What "your" concern here is that people are arguing about is rather they should "pay" vs "grind" for consoles and ships.
My point is this;
"Invest vs Reinvest"
At the heart of it all this is the concern that players have. Most either use lockboxes, EC, Zen etc etc for ship builds and ships. The issue is for most folks isn't just real money vs grinding. But reinvesting in what is a long haul investment since day one playing this game we have the following to look at here.
1: Lock Boxes
2: Reputation
3: Fleet Projects
4: Z Store
Now how does this all factor in you might ask? Simple, the source for our ship builds that is how. This is both on the PVE side and yes even on the PVP side. And for the folks already that have had built their ships and yes I do highlight the word, "invested" much in their ships as well. With that being said now they introduce Tier VI which I have no concern with. But the money both in game and out of pocket already invested in what the past two seasons for Plasma Infused Consoles, Dyson Consoles to already stack up with the Fleet Modules on Tier V ships both Fleet and Store as well as Lock Box ships too. I wouldn't blame the folks being upset for having now to cough money for ships they already invested in. So the issue again is not "Grind vs Pay" but "Invest vs Reinvest". And on a side note about "Most MMO's" That has been argued a lot and still there are other MMO's that go outside the norms that Perfectworld deploys here. So to me that is just another sterotypical argument about MMO's in general.
i agree! we know that those who accept any given change are far less inclined to post
about it, but there will also be those who disagree and say nothing too. so as it stands,
even though forum users are a vocal minority, it should in no way diminish the value of
our concerns and constructive feedback pos/neg coming from these threads. that being
said, it is sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees, especially in a threadnought
such as this.
Um. Could you please explain how fleet ships are obsolete? They have an extra console slot, and have more hull and shields? Did Cryptic make weapons obsolete before, when they went from borg weapons to fleet weapons?