Which is probably tied into what the mods are trying to do in moving a bunch of the stuff from the PvP forums into other areas. The PvP community doesn't post their Ten Forward stuff in Ten Forward...they post it there. They don't post the nonsense of General Discussion in General Discussion...they post it there. Where everything elsewhere is generally spread out all over the place, so you can say go to Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics to see discussions just about mechanics without the garbage of Ten Forward..the PvP Forums will include the PvP Ten Forward garbage as well. Which again is probably tied into what the mods are doing with trying to move a bunch of that stuff into various other areas of the forums...
But if you take a look around the rest of the forums...many of the discussions about mechanics involve folks that PvP.
Well, hey. I won't leave anything off the table. Maybe I can be convinced they're an integral part to the game. At this point in time, though, I'm not.
That's just mind-boggling to me...it's not far of a stretch to take that as saying that anybody that's got a complaint should just leave.
Nope. Just the people who aren't a key demographic in terms of Cryptic's income. In a f2p market, it's whichever demographics support the company's bottom line the most, and each subsequent demographic takes less and less priority. Which isn't to say no priority at all, but it's fairly evident that's not the side of the bread their butter is on.
And from all evidence of history, the PvPers of the game aren't by any means a key demographic of the game. Else, we'd see Cryptic put more money and labor hours into the PvP experience itself, to foster that customer relationship.
So not exactly. I don't think people with complaints should just leave. I have plenty of complaints, and I'm also likely in a few demographics where my opinions aren't a priority. Which is also how I'm able to deal with Cryptic not acting on things I have to say about game design from time to time. I'm nothing special to Cryptic. I don't feel entitled to special treatment since I don't make the demographic that reinforces their bottom line.
I do not mind paying for an upgrade, those of us who paid monthly subs on mmo games through the years know it takes cash to keep the game afloat. They could keep all the free upgrades imo as long as they have a system whereby we can bring our ships up to current standards. I play these games precisely because I enjoy building up an avatar of whatever type. I don't enjoy having that avatar mandatorily relegated to second best. They can call it "competetive" all they want, use a letter instead of a decimal place even. 5-U < 6 puts 5-U in the junkyard for any power gamer. Part of what makes this game so awesome is tweaking things to max potential.
Pushing for them to upgrade free is ..not helpful. They need to make a buck like everyone else. A purchaseable+grindable+questable full t6 retrofit to keep our investment out of the scrapyard doesn't seem outrageous, I would think of it like buying an expansion pack
I agree completely. I don't mind at all having to pay to update my ships..and I have a lot of ships...but I don't like that even after I upgrade said ships they still won't be as good as t6 ships. I want to fly my excelsior, my brel, and my dderidex. I want to fly the ships I saw on star trek and I want them to be as good as possible...not *competitive*.
Well, hey. I won't leave anything off the table. Maybe I can be convinced they're an integral part to the game. At this point in time, though, I'm not.
Lol, don't get me wrong...there are folks that are...er...imho...not very helpful in promoting PvP as a whole to Cryptic or the rest of the game, and they're around in an unhealthy ratio compared to how those folks are around for other communities in the game...
...but I'm not going to write off any of STO's communities because of a few buffoons they might have.
Nope. Just the people who aren't a key demographic in terms of Cryptic's income. In a f2p market, it's whichever demographics support the company's bottom line the most, and each subsequent demographic takes less and less priority. Which isn't to say no priority at all, but it's fairly evident that's not the side of the bread their butter is on.
And from all evidence of history, the PvPers of the game aren't by any means a key demographic of the game. Else, we'd see Cryptic put more money and labor hours into the PvP experience itself.
So not exactly. I don't think people with complaints should just leave. I have plenty of complaints, and I'm also likely in a few demographics where my opinions aren't a priority. Which is also how I'm able to deal with Cryptic not acting on things I have to say about game design from time to time. I'm nothing special to Cryptic. I don't feel entitled to special treatment since I don't make the demographic that reinforces their bottom line.
PvPers provide their own content...they fight each other. Cryptic provides them with things to blow each other up with. Almost everything sold...is PvP related.
The hardcore Star Trek folks aren't going to buy all that nonsense...they just want their canon stuff...they're a crappy source of income. The F2P PvE guy is just flying around going wheeee. The DPS folks are going to be like the PvP folks...grabbing all the new shinies...because the DPS folks are creating their own challenge since Cryptic can't provide one for them (like the PvP folks). The Foundry's barely seen any love...but those folks keep at it.
If you look at Cryptic's bottom line...it's gear...and there's not many groups that will gobble that up.
Folks always underestimate the revenue the PvP folks generate for Cryptic by looking at the lack of maps, game types, etc...but look at all the gear that's purchased for multiple toons. The only folks that probably generate more revenue would be the DPS folks.
I think one has to have a sane and rational mind in order to be out of it...but I concur. Seriously cryptic/perfect world...are you out of your ****ing minds? I'll say it...I don't care if you ban me from your pathetic little forum. I'm saying my peace!! I've already put thousands of hours into my 26 level 50 toons, at least 1500 dollars in real world money and have grinded beyond reason to make all of them competitive and my reward is that at least 16 of my Captains now have to pay even more real world money in order to keep them mostly competitive. Seriously Cryptic...**** off!! And to the whiny fan boys defenders who will feel the need to quote me and tell me a thing or two **** you too. I won't waste my time debating you and it won't matter because I'll be banned anyway You may enjoy being bent over without Cryptic/Perfect World handing you any lube but the vast majority of us do not.
And didnt you recieve EXACTLY what you payed for ? PPL still act like the T5 ships couldnt be used anymore. Yes they aint state of the art anymore. But instead of seeing it from a Position of "hey they allow me to upgrade my ship so its not that "useless" in T6 times" ppl rage about the OPTION of Upgrading.
This is like going to your Car dealer and expect a new Car for free when your current one gets a new version.
I honnestly cant find nowhere in the Zen store a note that If the content gets upgradet you are entitelet to a proper Tier Upgrade. And frankly most of the Lifetimers i talk to see it kinda that way too (actualy most of them are happy cause they stipend gets to be worth way more).
If you sink real money in a game instead of using the system to grind what you need you might need to think about if you have a patience issue And maybe a Lifetime so you get your 500 zen each month and can basicly buy all new ships for free :P
They said that t5 ships would NOT be obsolete at all. I rolled my eyes.
If I have to pay for my ship to be useful, then it doesn't get upgraded. So we best be getting standard issue ships for level 60 or the only thing keeping me from flying a sub-standard ship (and under performing for the team) in the new content is a non t5u/t6 restriction. That's the only way to stop me.
BTW, there is a wee chance that I may, under some circumstances, may have to run DR with mk xi/ xii gear.
the only thing keeping me from flying a sub-standard ship (and under performing for the team) in the new content is a non t5u/t6 restriction. That's the only way to stop me.
You don't PUG much do you? Folks under perform in top of the line ships right now...nobody's really going to notice if you under perform in whatever ship you intend to fly. It's got to be one of the emptiest threats made on the forums...outside of the guys that have said they're leaving 9001 times.
Which you managed to take out of context since you weren't following the previous conversation.
Which should have been your first reply and our conversation would have gone a different way. Everything I said was specific to what I quoted...had no reason to believe that what you were saying was not specific to that either. First reply of that's not what you were saying, and I would have been my bad...I misunderstood.
you guys are rageing over something that isnt set in stone. STO comunity needs to relax and let them produce something we can play and maybe then we can judge it.
But like i siad even averagely playing elite's and mineing i easly do 5 dollars in 2 days worse case senario. You guys dont have to spend ne money. and with out full detail's we cant judge balanceing or bug issue's.
yes we are letting them know how BAD OF AN IDEA THIS IS SO THEY DON'T DO IT! Their can be no question on this for them to try to weasel it in.
Here's a thought for you guys. When LoR launched, Cryptic used the appeal of a Romulan faction to pay for the cost of the expansion. They essentially dangled the Legacy pack out for players which gave romulan players quite a few ships for a discounted price, as well as some other select goodies.
This time however, there is no faction that they can cash on, so they have to find other means to do so. You guys all should have expected that they would do something so they could recoup the time that they've put in developing the Expansion. They're launching at most 10 Tier 6 ships and who knows how many alien ships that will no doubt make some money.
We don't know what the full costs of the Tier 5-U ships or even the Tier 6 ships will be yet.
If you don't like the cost once we find out what it is, simply do not spend anything on ships. Don't complain when you can't win in any Delta Rising endgame queued events because you refused to upgrade your Tier 5 ship because you were unwilling to shell out an additional $5 on top of whatever you happened to spend on your ship.
It's really just amazing how things can turn around in 2 years with the community...
I'd rather just blow up over and over just to TRIBBLE people off. And when THEY complain, I'll just point them over to the upgrade list. "Want me to be better, it only costs $5/$10."
I simply don't understand why we can't upgrade our T5 z-store, lockbox or fleet ships to T6, rather than T5U. (Bug ship gets a T6 upgrade, but that's a bit... different.)
I understand they will still be "competitive", but that doesn't really say much.
I would happily lay down some cash if I could boost my favorite T5 (5.5 in some cases?) ships to T6 status.
You already have the models. Just make new stats to equate to T6... Even if it costs as much as brand new T6. Just let us keep our favorite rides at the top of their game.
TLDR: Let me upgrade my T5+ ships to T6 and take my money.
yes we are letting them know how BAD OF AN IDEA THIS IS SO THEY DON'T DO IT! Their can be no question on this for them to try to weasel it in.
I couldnt agree more. Just scrap the upgrade Part. T5 ships will be still viable to do all lvl 60 content like T4 ships are in current Content.
The thing i dont like is the feeling of entitlement some ppl have cause they bought something once. "Oh no Intel releases a new CPU so im entiteled for the new version" is just a example of how redicilous that thinking is.
Yes you have to pay. Yes if you have several Zen Store ships (like i do) you would need to pay more often. But lets face it. Most ppl use 1-2 Ships on a regular basis. so its no real biggy. Zen you can get for "free" when you just play the game. even on my "alt" F2P account i get loads of dil each day just by doing DoFF missions. Actiualy enough to buy any new ship they would release and / or Upgrade my existing Zen Store ones. Plus enough to buy Fleet gear etc. and provide my main account with Lockbox Keys and/or Fleet Modules
I see A LOT of unhappy people skimming through the thread.
Seems they have one thing in common, being they want to see FULL TIER 6 UPGRADES to all tier 5 and tier 5.5 ships.
The other thing in common, is the fact that lockboxes, lobi and event ships are FREE, but not store.
Where is the harm in upgrading all ships to tier 6 and still release new tier 6 ships? None i can think of. People would still buy the new ones, because they are new.
I would be one of those who would buy the new tier 6 ships, PROVIDING I get full upgrade of my store ships to tier 6 as well because i like some of them, and really, ships like the Dyson science destroyer mega bundle, not even 9 months old yet.
I really hope Cryptic change their minds on this, if not, hope it fails them
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
Thing is, as this thread has thankfully clarified through Gorngonzolla's posts: Upgraded fleet ships are just as good, if in a different way, as T6 ships.
What I would propose, however, is for the devs to say
"Now that we do have a ship upgrade technology in place, we are going to continue to use it for the future, should ships beyond base T6 ever come out. Your T5-FU ships may one day be upgradeable to "T5F-UU", which might then, for example, be equivalent to T6 Fleet or T7."
I get what your saying totally, though I'm afraid I have to disagree based on what we know so far.
From what we know so far, T5-FU's will have slightly more HP and an extra console slot over the T6's, but will be down a bridge officer power of unknown level and will be unable to slot the new specialist boff type (some might be able to via a universal station, but this is unknown at present).
Personally, I think the extra boff power will give T6's an noticable and profound advantage over T5FU's even if its just an ensign power, heaven forbid its an extra lt, ltc or cmdr slot. No 11th console could equal that in my mind.
As for the specialist boff type its usefulness is, at present, unknown. It could be a huge advantage, though it may be inconsequential.
I guess we wont be able to make a true judgement on how bad the power gap until we see information on the new specialist boffs, and actual stats on both the new ships and the T5FU's.
I think the broader problem is the one you mentioned: further tiers beyond T6, such as the inevitable fleet T6, which will render upgraded T5FU's obsolete.
I think for this reason you're idea of an ongoing upgrade system is excellent and would be highly reassuring, provided that the upgrades always kept the ships on par with the latest top-level, because as it stands the T5U idea is convoluted, confusing and pointless.
Besides, your idea would make me a lot more comfortable shelling out for T6's as I would know I could keep them competitive and not be overridden by T6.5 or T7 down the line.
Got a cat? Have 10 minutes to help someone make the best degree dissertation of all time?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
You already have the models. Just make new stats to equate to T6... Even if it costs as much as brand new T6. Just let us keep our favorite rides at the top of their game.
T5-U ships will even have better stats than T6 ships in order to make up for the missing ship trait and BO power.
So I pay money for T5, money for fleet upgrade for T5.5 and now I can pay even more money so the same ship could be 2nd rate crud! (T6 - 1st, T5U - 2nd, T5.5 - 3rd).
Peachy, pray tell what happens when you release T6.5 as say fleet, retrofit or whatever, I end up with triple paid 3rd rate crud or will you find in your heart to allow me to upgrade it yet again so I can pay grand total of 4 times for 2nd rate crud. (T6.5 - 1st, T6 - 2nd, T5U - 3rd, T5.5 - 4th, T5 - 5th)
What a deal, maybe I can get a deed for Golden Gate Bridge thrown in for the good measure?
Maybe some Confedrate war bonds?
One time offer for my very own Black Hole?
$5 to $10 per pop, precious, you know if it was upgrade to T6 for that money I even might swallow it. However if it was who would want to buy T6?
And kindly cut the PR talk about "bells & whistles", the only way you can sell T6 if it is significantly better than T5U.
Oh right I don't need to do content, blah-blah, no guarantees, yap-yap, it will still be doable, yak-yak, etc.
So do tell if old T5 soon to be junk will be usable in new content how can that content be harder than existing one? :P
So this small pleasure will cost me a hundred and so bucks since I was stupid enough to collect ships from Z store, that's of course after I cull some from the list.
Pittance really, I think I'll take it to the competition so as not to insult you with my dirty few bucks.
And here I was hoping NW will become like STO, not the other way around.
Comments
Well, hey. I won't leave anything off the table. Maybe I can be convinced they're an integral part to the game. At this point in time, though, I'm not.
Nope. Just the people who aren't a key demographic in terms of Cryptic's income. In a f2p market, it's whichever demographics support the company's bottom line the most, and each subsequent demographic takes less and less priority. Which isn't to say no priority at all, but it's fairly evident that's not the side of the bread their butter is on.
And from all evidence of history, the PvPers of the game aren't by any means a key demographic of the game. Else, we'd see Cryptic put more money and labor hours into the PvP experience itself, to foster that customer relationship.
So not exactly. I don't think people with complaints should just leave. I have plenty of complaints, and I'm also likely in a few demographics where my opinions aren't a priority. Which is also how I'm able to deal with Cryptic not acting on things I have to say about game design from time to time. I'm nothing special to Cryptic. I don't feel entitled to special treatment since I don't make the demographic that reinforces their bottom line.
I agree completely. I don't mind at all having to pay to update my ships..and I have a lot of ships...but I don't like that even after I upgrade said ships they still won't be as good as t6 ships. I want to fly my excelsior, my brel, and my dderidex. I want to fly the ships I saw on star trek and I want them to be as good as possible...not *competitive*.
Lol, don't get me wrong...there are folks that are...er...imho...not very helpful in promoting PvP as a whole to Cryptic or the rest of the game, and they're around in an unhealthy ratio compared to how those folks are around for other communities in the game...
...but I'm not going to write off any of STO's communities because of a few buffoons they might have.
PvPers provide their own content...they fight each other. Cryptic provides them with things to blow each other up with. Almost everything sold...is PvP related.
The hardcore Star Trek folks aren't going to buy all that nonsense...they just want their canon stuff...they're a crappy source of income. The F2P PvE guy is just flying around going wheeee. The DPS folks are going to be like the PvP folks...grabbing all the new shinies...because the DPS folks are creating their own challenge since Cryptic can't provide one for them (like the PvP folks). The Foundry's barely seen any love...but those folks keep at it.
If you look at Cryptic's bottom line...it's gear...and there's not many groups that will gobble that up.
Folks always underestimate the revenue the PvP folks generate for Cryptic by looking at the lack of maps, game types, etc...but look at all the gear that's purchased for multiple toons. The only folks that probably generate more revenue would be the DPS folks.
Puzzling...
He states that just because you don't do something doesn't mean somebody else doesn't do it.
...and you say that he shouldn't try to do that?
You told him not to try to say that not everybody plays the way you do...a puzzling statement.
...that you think those are different.
"you say he shouldn't"
"You told him not to say..."
Puzzling...curious...dumbfounding.
And didnt you recieve EXACTLY what you payed for ? PPL still act like the T5 ships couldnt be used anymore. Yes they aint state of the art anymore. But instead of seeing it from a Position of "hey they allow me to upgrade my ship so its not that "useless" in T6 times" ppl rage about the OPTION of Upgrading.
This is like going to your Car dealer and expect a new Car for free when your current one gets a new version.
I honnestly cant find nowhere in the Zen store a note that If the content gets upgradet you are entitelet to a proper Tier Upgrade. And frankly most of the Lifetimers i talk to see it kinda that way too (actualy most of them are happy cause they stipend gets to be worth way more).
If you sink real money in a game instead of using the system to grind what you need you might need to think about if you have a patience issue
If I have to pay for my ship to be useful, then it doesn't get upgraded. So we best be getting standard issue ships for level 60 or the only thing keeping me from flying a sub-standard ship (and under performing for the team) in the new content is a non t5u/t6 restriction. That's the only way to stop me.
BTW, there is a wee chance that I may, under some circumstances, may have to run DR with mk xi/ xii gear.
Did I quote the conversation? No? Okay then...something specific?
What did I quote? Okay then...and I replied based on that? Yes?
Okay then...and you replied to that? Yes? And...I replied again? Yes?
Okay then...I honestly don't mean to be rude, but were you actually following the conversation?
You don't PUG much do you? Folks under perform in top of the line ships right now...nobody's really going to notice if you under perform in whatever ship you intend to fly. It's got to be one of the emptiest threats made on the forums...outside of the guys that have said they're leaving 9001 times.
Which should have been your first reply and our conversation would have gone a different way. Everything I said was specific to what I quoted...had no reason to believe that what you were saying was not specific to that either. First reply of that's not what you were saying, and I would have been my bad...I misunderstood.
yes we are letting them know how BAD OF AN IDEA THIS IS SO THEY DON'T DO IT! Their can be no question on this for them to try to weasel it in.
This time however, there is no faction that they can cash on, so they have to find other means to do so. You guys all should have expected that they would do something so they could recoup the time that they've put in developing the Expansion. They're launching at most 10 Tier 6 ships and who knows how many alien ships that will no doubt make some money.
We don't know what the full costs of the Tier 5-U ships or even the Tier 6 ships will be yet.
If you don't like the cost once we find out what it is, simply do not spend anything on ships. Don't complain when you can't win in any Delta Rising endgame queued events because you refused to upgrade your Tier 5 ship because you were unwilling to shell out an additional $5 on top of whatever you happened to spend on your ship.
It's really just amazing how things can turn around in 2 years with the community...
My my, what a rebel you are.
I understand they will still be "competitive", but that doesn't really say much.
I would happily lay down some cash if I could boost my favorite T5 (5.5 in some cases?) ships to T6 status.
You already have the models. Just make new stats to equate to T6... Even if it costs as much as brand new T6. Just let us keep our favorite rides at the top of their game.
TLDR: Let me upgrade my T5+ ships to T6 and take my money.
I couldnt agree more. Just scrap the upgrade Part. T5 ships will be still viable to do all lvl 60 content like T4 ships are in current Content.
The thing i dont like is the feeling of entitlement some ppl have cause they bought something once. "Oh no Intel releases a new CPU so im entiteled for the new version" is just a example of how redicilous that thinking is.
Yes you have to pay. Yes if you have several Zen Store ships (like i do) you would need to pay more often. But lets face it. Most ppl use 1-2 Ships on a regular basis. so its no real biggy. Zen you can get for "free" when you just play the game. even on my "alt" F2P account i get loads of dil each day just by doing DoFF missions. Actiualy enough to buy any new ship they would release and / or Upgrade my existing Zen Store ones. Plus enough to buy Fleet gear etc. and provide my main account with Lockbox Keys and/or Fleet Modules
Seems they have one thing in common, being they want to see FULL TIER 6 UPGRADES to all tier 5 and tier 5.5 ships.
The other thing in common, is the fact that lockboxes, lobi and event ships are FREE, but not store.
Where is the harm in upgrading all ships to tier 6 and still release new tier 6 ships? None i can think of. People would still buy the new ones, because they are new.
I would be one of those who would buy the new tier 6 ships, PROVIDING I get full upgrade of my store ships to tier 6 as well because i like some of them, and really, ships like the Dyson science destroyer mega bundle, not even 9 months old yet.
I really hope Cryptic change their minds on this, if not, hope it fails them
And i have the feeling money matters more then the players.....:mad::mad::mad:
Where do you think the money comes from?
I get what your saying totally, though I'm afraid I have to disagree based on what we know so far.
From what we know so far, T5-FU's will have slightly more HP and an extra console slot over the T6's, but will be down a bridge officer power of unknown level and will be unable to slot the new specialist boff type (some might be able to via a universal station, but this is unknown at present).
Personally, I think the extra boff power will give T6's an noticable and profound advantage over T5FU's even if its just an ensign power, heaven forbid its an extra lt, ltc or cmdr slot. No 11th console could equal that in my mind.
As for the specialist boff type its usefulness is, at present, unknown. It could be a huge advantage, though it may be inconsequential.
I guess we wont be able to make a true judgement on how bad the power gap until we see information on the new specialist boffs, and actual stats on both the new ships and the T5FU's.
I think the broader problem is the one you mentioned: further tiers beyond T6, such as the inevitable fleet T6, which will render upgraded T5FU's obsolete.
I think for this reason you're idea of an ongoing upgrade system is excellent and would be highly reassuring, provided that the upgrades always kept the ships on par with the latest top-level, because as it stands the T5U idea is convoluted, confusing and pointless.
Besides, your idea would make me a lot more comfortable shelling out for T6's as I would know I could keep them competitive and not be overridden by T6.5 or T7 down the line.
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
So I pay money for T5, money for fleet upgrade for T5.5 and now I can pay even more money so the same ship could be 2nd rate crud! (T6 - 1st, T5U - 2nd, T5.5 - 3rd).
Peachy, pray tell what happens when you release T6.5 as say fleet, retrofit or whatever, I end up with triple paid 3rd rate crud or will you find in your heart to allow me to upgrade it yet again so I can pay grand total of 4 times for 2nd rate crud. (T6.5 - 1st, T6 - 2nd, T5U - 3rd, T5.5 - 4th, T5 - 5th)
What a deal, maybe I can get a deed for Golden Gate Bridge thrown in for the good measure?
Maybe some Confedrate war bonds?
One time offer for my very own Black Hole?
$5 to $10 per pop, precious, you know if it was upgrade to T6 for that money I even might swallow it. However if it was who would want to buy T6?
And kindly cut the PR talk about "bells & whistles", the only way you can sell T6 if it is significantly better than T5U.
Oh right I don't need to do content, blah-blah, no guarantees, yap-yap, it will still be doable, yak-yak, etc.
So do tell if old T5 soon to be junk will be usable in new content how can that content be harder than existing one? :P
So this small pleasure will cost me a hundred and so bucks since I was stupid enough to collect ships from Z store, that's of course after I cull some from the list.
Pittance really, I think I'll take it to the competition so as not to insult you with my dirty few bucks.
And here I was hoping NW will become like STO, not the other way around.
Kind sir can I have some of that Klingon good stuff you seem to be hitting?