Okay, so now we first hear about Tier 6 ships and also now that the Tier 5 can be upgraded. I have but only one thing to ask.
What about those that already have Tier 5 Fleet Ships and also Z-Store ships as well? Is this going to be grandfathered into the Delta Rising Expansion? Or is this something that perhaps we have the option to have a reinbursement in our Zen toward Tier 6?
Because my concern to Perfectworld is this. I would most certainly hope that for those invested in Fleet Ships they don't forget about players like us. Otherwise, as we say it in sci fi,
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Tier 5 Fleet and Store ships can be upgraded in the same way as basic T5.
Okay, so now we first hear about Tier 6 ships and also now that the Tier 5 can be upgraded. I have but only one thing to ask.
What about those that already have Tier 5 Fleet Ships and also Z-Store ships as well? Is this going to be grandfathered into the Delta Rising Expansion? Or is this something that perhaps we have the option to have a reinbursement in our Zen toward Tier 6?
Because my concern to Perfectworld is this. I would most certainly hope that for those invested in Fleet Ships they don't forget about players like us. Otherwise, as we say it in sci fi,
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
As far as I understood you will be able to upgrade them to second best (almost as good according to Cryptic) for equivalent of $5-$10 worth of Zen per ship.
No refunds planned or mentioned at this point.
And yes, I think it will be a short walk out of the airlock in the end.
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
Seems like a calculated risk by a very cynical company who thinks they know their players. It could work in their favor and the naysayers like me will be the minority. Or it could blow up in their face like the poorly received Galaxy refit (recent) or it could be something in between.
Frankly between the numerous new grids, crafting, leveling of ships and all the other work they are adding with X2, I think the joy has been sucked out of this game. Couldn't even work up the enthusiasm to do the CE today and yesterday ... and that event is super easy and generous.
Charging people for upgrades is okay (assuming $5 or $10). Making the upgraded ships inferior to T6 (significantly in my opinion) + lack of revamped canon ships is NOT.
But whatever ... fanbois are salivating over these announcements.
yes. my fleet for a few months has about 6 active members and before that 3 to 4. in a few months we went from barely T2 level to starting T 4. we were so looking forward to getting fleet version of our favorite ships. Our fleets head main leaders are both lifers since beta and they are LIVID. why both getting any fleet ship after this and now even our mirror ships with is about half my fleet are not upgradable. Thus the MAIN INSENTIVE for people coming into our fleet is now gone. The fact that in 12 hours this thread has gone to 108 pages and now going beyond. Most of it negative. Many feel this is going to be the worse patch ever. Heck about 5 of us spent minutes talking about the fed t6 ship on their new article. Not one of us like it. It's not FED and many of us know ship modelers that can do a much better job in this. I worked on Star Trek Legacy Ultimate Universe mod and was one of the orginal 3 that worked on the Sins mod Star trek Armada 3. so we know ship designs. what Crypic is bringing out is completely garbage on the fed front.
I agree with you. Although I'm not a PvP person myself nor do I think PvP is of any major concern but aside from that you are 100% correct. We have all paid and ground for what we have. We ARE NOT going to do that again. Think about it, why pay to grind? Why should we have to grind at all? It realm makes no sense and neither does this new expansion.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
I tip my hat to you sir. You have laid out what cryptic/PWE refuses to understand about us, the players. I hope you, or someone else re-posts this so that someone might actually take action from it. It's a long shot, but it's all we got
Wow bud. You're tone suggests that you're someone with a lot of disposable income or someone who has never bought a c-store ship ever - that or you just missed that guys' point.
Myself as an example:
I have the Galaxy Pack, the Oddy Pack, the Scimi Pack, the B'Rel and the Mogh. Like many others, I didn't blow that $200 on Zen to have the 3RD BEST tiered ships in the game. To potentially make me pay another $55-$110 (depending on the $5 or $10 charge to upgrade to T5-U) just to keep them all 'competitive' is pretty bastardly IMO - that doesn't even take into account the money I've blown buying zen for modules on fleet variants.
I'll give the launch of this season a shot, but right now I'm of the opinion that STO just got the gold medal in 'Uncool Olympics'.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
It would appear that STO is developing a revolt. Everyone from those who started out when STO came out, life members, and the free to play, are telling STO this Tier 6 deal and the Tier 5 upgrade deal is over the top. The question is whether or not STO will listen and take heed.
Leveling up and gather a new ship is one thing, but making the not so long ago released top of the line ships into obsolete, especially for those who just got them and have not even been able to max out their potential yet, is not selling. Upgrading some ships that turns out to not even be an upgrade isn't selling at all. Will the Devs listen and act?
One can only wonder when the Devs will finally get around to fixing the exchange since it's been messed up since 9 was released. This happens every time they come out with a new season and yet for some reason there seems to be no motivation to correct the errors generated by them. So now we have a defective product that's being turned upside down and people are supposed to be happy about this?
I'm really curious to see how PWE can ignore 142 pages and counting of absolutely unhappy players. Will that unlock Geko insulting the playerbase again? Hopefully not. Will it result in anything changing. Probably not. We all need to keep our money in our wallets and vote that way. Revenue is the only way to ensure they don't make asinine moves like this again in the future.
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
My bet is they will put our complaints in a neat pile labeled "Vocal Minority" - and BURN it.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before itis too late..
gorngonzolla has answered some of the questions being raised recently in the thread already (would be nifty if those could be linked in the OP or added to the blogs as a Q&A sort of thing beyond what's there already)...
Actually I am pretty much mirroring what many said before, so yes we are a significant chunk of playerbase, probably a majority.
I presume the size of your Cryptic purchases are equal to your loudness?
Sure - you're mirroring what a bunch of people on the forums have said. If you think that's a majority of the playerbase you are probably a bit deluded. Most of the people I know who play literally never visit the forums. In the majority of situations like this you'll find that in reality, you are part of a vocal minority.
Unless Cryptic want to actually reveal any hard numbers (unlikely) we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Regardless, your opinion is still only your opinion (even when it matches that of other people). When you speak, you do so for yourself - not others.
I'm not sure how around 4-5 posts in a thread of over 200 pages is being 'loud', but yes, I've spent money on this game. Probably not as much as some, but my first Character was created prior to it being F2P, and I own plenty of store ships - my latest Fed character is at 50 and hasn't touched a single free ship - everything has been a store purchase. I have 4x active Fed toons at 50, all running with different ships, all store purchases. I have others that are not yet at 50 who have also got ships from the store. If you are suggesting that I'm only relaxed about it because I've never paid them any money, you're very much mistaken.
I just understand that I got what I paid for (Tier X ships with whatever console), because I understand that it's an online game that is subject to change. The T5 ships are clearly defined as such, there is no way to mistake that for a promise that they are 'The best thing in the game forever'.
I also understand that I can still play with all of them after DR launches.
None of which has anything to do with my previous point either way. If you don't like the game, stop playing and do something else with your time that you enjoy. Why waste it on something you are fed up with?
I have work to do, so I need to sign off. I hope that if you are truly this annoyed with the game that you find something else you can enjoy to be so passionate about.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
"and most queues..."
...so it begs the question then, what are the not "and most queues..." that will require a T5-U or T6 ship then, eh?
Cause that puts a different angle on things as far as saying folks can do stuff in their regular ol' T5 boats...
As far as I understood you will be able to upgrade them to second best (almost as good according to Cryptic) for equivalent of $5-$10 worth of Zen per ship.
No refunds planned or mentioned at this point.
And yes, I think it will be a short walk out of the airlock in the end.
I don't mind the fee for the upgrade for Tier V Starships. What I do mind however is if they are not even going to consider a "Grandfather Clause" or even a "Reinbursment". In other words a trade in for zen or reduced rate for those with a fleet ship already? What is the worth of the MMO anymore? Even with the Tier VI coming out still the main concern should be,
"Options, options, options."
Pay $5 to $10 per upgrade for each ship. So lets do the math here.
Lets use X=$10 as the up fee to upgrade each ship. Now lets say I own well 5 ships from the Z-Store. What does that factor to?
5 x X= $50
So already with this math it is a no brainer it is going to cost me the same fee for a Ship Bundle Pack say like for the "Galaxy Bundle" or the "Scimitar Bundle" that perhaps one could be investing their money in when instead we have to cough out "$50" to upgrade our ships? Geez I only feel concern for the rest of my fellow gaming brothers and sisters that possibly have more than 5 to deal with.
Now for all kicks and giggles respectfully speaking lets look at that now "other" fee factor for a ship upgrade. This time X=$5
5 x X=$25
So now I am upgrading 5 starships for the price of 1? Again yes I said it once and I will say it again:
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Now to Perfectworld my favorite line by Clint Eastwood from "Grand Torino"
Okay. This is getting annoying, so let me address some points...
1. Geko has said, from Day 1, that T5U will not be true T6. This is intentional to make us want to buy T6. Obviously, from both the Trekkie's "prototypical" thought pattern (if it ain't canon, it ain't pretty enough to fly) to the completely "oddball" blue hull with scanline heaven design(s), they need to have "incentives" to drop ~$30 per on these ship(s).
1A. However, the claims have been made that T5U (upgraded T5s) will be "competitive" with these T6s. As all the information has not been released - will Specialits fit into universal slots? What will these new traits that primarily come from T6 ships do for you? What level of power will the 13th BOff slot be, and will the 11th console be able to compete with this? (remember, they're calculating the +1 console for T6 from the "baseline" of the L40 T5s, which only had 9. Therefore, T6s have 10 consoles. All T5Us get a bonus console, which, since many T5.5s have 10 to begin with, means the T5U version(s) of those ships will have 11...)
2. On the guess that T6 will cost ~$30, and that the T5Us (especially the T5U11 - 11 console versions - as we call it) will rank as "competitive" enough to work, "paying" the upgrade cost so that the total investment is $30 isn't a "problem" for me. Vesta, for example, is a $25 ship, and if the module costs $5, total investment $30. Galaxy-X is a $20, +$5 for fleet module (T5.5 level), $5 for upgrade = $30.
2A. To reiterate my math. 800 lobi ships "earn" Cryptic: based on an average of 5 lobi per box, it takes about 160 boxes to earn a ship. At $1.25 a key, this is $200. If the "grand prize" ships really drop at a rate of .1%, this means that 1 in a 1000 boxes release the ship. Again, at $1.25 a key, this is $1,250 (I was off a zero before...) that should have been dumped in for the RNG to "grace" us with one of those ships... Since both of these numbers are significantly higher than the $30 investment level for a T6 ship, they "deserve" to be upgraded to the T5U standard automatically. That, and when Fleet ships released in the first place, all existing lockbox-oriented ships automatically (and freely) received said upgrade, so the precedent is set.
Right now, I'll admit that the whole upgrade system "seems" promising while maintaining Cryptic's stated goal of "earning more money" and, oddly enough, maybe keeping the total investment the same for the various styles of power. Is this statement going to hold true? More blogs are required. How pretty am I sitting? That is a matter of debate, of my 3 "mains", all 3 of them fly a ship that will require upgrading (Fed Vesta, KDF C-store DSD, Rommie Fleet T'Varo), but I do have a fallback (Orb Weaver and Recluse on my Fed Main-main, grindaversary DSD on the KDF) And if/when finances permit, I am currently fairly tempted to buy at least 1 actual T6 to grind out a starship trait. Of course, I'm hedging bets right now and waiting for all this intel that has to be dribbled out in the name of "maintaining hype and interest"...
I won't cry foul on a "double-dip", unless the math holds it as true. I won't cry foul on the anticipated "competitiveness" unless either the math or practical experience holds true. Am I going to sing praises? No confirmation has been given to earn said praises. Will I be rightfully concerned? Yep. Can we just blow up the hype machine and get all the info to make proper decisions today? Does anyone have a starship with access to PWE headquarters?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I don't have time to read all the posts that are written here so sorry if this was already mentioned.
I'd be happy if there would be way to sell upgrade tokens on exchange. It could work the same way the Fleet Modules work but it would be new/unique C-Store item. This way there would be more ways to obtain them as there are always players in need of EC that will be willing to sell it. With the current dilithium/zen exchange rates and number of alt characters and ships that I'd like to convert it would be of much help.
Captain Smirk, hope you can give your comment to this as I think so far it wasn't dismissed by the devs.
Okay. This is getting annoying, so let me address some points...
1. Geko has said, from Day 1, that T5U will not be true T6. This is intentional to make us want to buy T6. Obviously, from both the Trekkie's "prototypical" thought pattern (if it ain't canon, it ain't pretty enough to fly) to the completely "oddball" blue hull with scanline heaven design(s), they need to have "incentives" to drop ~$30 per on these ship(s).
1A. However, the claims have been made that T5U (upgraded T5s) will be "competitive" with these T6s. As all the information has not been released - will Specialits fit into universal slots? What will these new traits that primarily come from T6 ships do for you? What level of power will the 13th BOff slot be, and will the 11th console be able to compete with this? (remember, they're calculating the +1 console for T6 from the "baseline" of the L40 T5s, which only had 9. Therefore, T6s have 10 consoles. All T5Us get a bonus console, which, since many T5.5s have 10 to begin with, means the T5U version(s) of those ships will have 11...)
2. On the guess that T6 will cost ~$30, and that the T5Us (especially the T5U11 - 11 console versions - as we call it) will rank as "competitive" enough to work, "paying" the upgrade cost so that the total investment is $30 isn't a "problem" for me. Vesta, for example, is a $25 ship, and if the module costs $5, total investment $30. Galaxy-X is a $20, +$5 for fleet module (T5.5 level), $5 for upgrade = $30.
2A. To reiterate my math. 800 lobi ships "earn" Cryptic: based on an average of 5 lobi per box, it takes about 160 boxes to earn a ship. At $1.25 a key, this is $200. If the "grand prize" ships really drop at a rate of .1%, this means that 1 in a 1000 boxes release the ship. Again, at $1.25 a key, this is $1,250 (I was off a zero before...) that should have been dumped in for the RNG to "grace" us with one of those ships... Since both of these numbers are significantly higher than the $30 investment level for a T6 ship, they "deserve" to be upgraded to the T5U standard automatically. That, and when Fleet ships released in the first place, all existing lockbox-oriented ships automatically (and freely) received said upgrade, so the precedent is set.
Right now, I'll admit that the whole upgrade system "seems" promising while maintaining Cryptic's stated goal of "earning more money" and, oddly enough, maybe keeping the total investment the same for the various styles of power. Is this statement going to hold true? More blogs are required. How pretty am I sitting? That is a matter of debate, of my 3 "mains", all 3 of them fly a ship that will require upgrading (Fed Vesta, KDF C-store DSD, Rommie Fleet T'Varo), but I do have a fallback (Orb Weaver and Recluse on my Fed Main-main, grindaversary DSD on the KDF) And if/when finances permit, I am currently fairly tempted to buy at least 1 actual T6 to grind out a starship trait. Of course, I'm hedging bets right now and waiting for all this intel that has to be dribbled out in the name of "maintaining hype and interest"...
I won't cry foul on a "double-dip", unless the math holds it as true. I won't cry foul on the anticipated "competitiveness" unless either the math or practical experience holds true. Am I going to sing praises? No confirmation has been given to earn said praises. Will I be rightfully concerned? Yep. Can we just blow up the hype machine and get all the info to make proper decisions today? Does anyone have a starship with access to PWE headquarters?
I have a better idea until more facts. I'm not getting any Tier 6 ships or grinding the new coming grind fest.
The new content I'm assuming will be T5-U(Fleet) level so no need for Tier 6. Additionally, with the skill curve of the crafting system 2,000,000+ skill to get to tier 20 for one school. I'm assuming leveling ships will be at the pace same Additionally, I'm assuming fleet ships will be second best.
Cryptic is face palming and smacking their players around literally. I have a feeling the reason why this wasn't announced at the Las Vegas convention is because they would catch hell. They wasn't going make a bad announcement at the convention. Still they let players be low balled.
btw. how does it fit into the games concept that the flag ships of the federation, the klingon empire and the romulan republic are becoming "outdated junk"?
I don't have time to read all the posts that are written here so sorry if this was already mentioned.
I'd be happy if there would be way to sell upgrade tokens on exchange. It could work the same way the Fleet Modules work but it would be new/unique C-Store item. This way there would be more ways to obtain them as there are always players in need of EC that will be willing to sell it. With the current dilithium/zen exchange rates and number of alt characters and ships that I'd like to convert it would be of much help.
Captain Smirk, hope you can give your comment to this as I think so far it wasn't dismissed by the devs.
Thank you.
They have said that some/all upgrades may use a special upgrade item like Fleet ships require a Fleet Module. The only upgrade process in game currently is T5->Fleet, so it is logical to assume this is how T5->T5-U will work. The exact zen cost would be determined by how many of these zen store items you require to upgrade that ship.
This might even be the zen cost they talk about. One could say the cost of a Fleet ship is 2000 zen because they require 4 FM in the same way the devs now say T5-U will cost 500-1000 zen.
When you look at the games recent history you can be 99% sure upgrades will be handled through the c-store and those items can be sold to other players.
Ouch. My head hurts after reading each and every post in this thread (constant merges are worse than temporal paradoxes).
I'm not going to try and speak for anyone here but myself.
I have 4 alts with Chel Gretts (2 now fly Moghs) so I get a free upgrade on 4 alts for a ship I love. Nice. I have to pay for the Moghs? Okay so far, I'd have to to upgrade to Fleet Moghs anyway so not that bad, all things considered. I have the free dyson on most alts too and that's another free upgrade so still not too bad. I have the T'varo retrofit from the LOR Starter Pack I'll have to pay to upgrade... still not too bad. My wife? Pretty much in the same boat I am, ship-wise.
Where I think Cryptic have caused an issue is with the tier 5u and tier 6 nonsense. By creating a distinction between the 2 (arbitrary though it may be) they have created a divide between the 2. Further complicating things is the tier 5fu (fleet ships being upgraded). The number of consoles slots a given tier 5 ship has before upgrading adds further headaches.
Surely a better way of describing this would have been Cryptic - "Your favourite tier 5 ships (with some exceptions) can be fully upgraded to tier 6. T6 ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 6 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points. This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T6 starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
In addition to your newly upgraded T6 ships we will be introducing a few NEW T6 ships in the C-store which, in addition to the starship mastery and other benefits listed for upgraded T6 ships listed above, will showcase some exciting new features such as an upgraded BOFF seat and a Specialist BOFF seat with new hybrid powers **. These new ships will also feature a 5th level of starship mastery which will unlock a starship trait.
**Not all C-store T6 ships brought out in the future will have this specialist seating."
Would this have been easier to swallow for the players? All upgraded ships are T6, it's just that some new features will be made available through those T6 ships made especially for the C-store. I'd be fine with this description. We the players would need to make the choice between having the extra console, hull, etc. of an upgraded T6 (and any associated costs) and the altered BOFF seating of a C-store T6 plus an as yet un-described trait we'd probably have to slot in place of an existing one anyway. So far I see nothing new here that hasn't been done before. Ships that split, ships that have singularity cores, ships that have advanced battlecloak, ships that have all universal seating, ships with a new console/weapon/BOFF layout.
It's not that different from buying the "best" C-store ship for your toon and upgrading it to fleet and then Cryptic release a new ship that would be even better for your toon so you open your wallet again. The only difference is Cryptic are offering the chance to upgrade your already awesome ship for a fee/free instead of buying the new shiny.
The only issue left is fleet ships and those would surely now be considered T6fleet since the "fleet" is a modifier already and they'll still be better than other T6 upgrades.
I fly the ships I fly because I love them. Some of those will get a free upgrade so I'm happy. Will I buy a T6? Only if it's not fugly as all sin (like, sadly, most of the in-house designs look to me) and it's stats are something I can work with.
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Look, I can agree that Cryptic/PWE has to make money. I can agree that we have to pay for the T6 ships, not even making a problem with that. But I do not agree nor accept that we have to pay extra to upgrade those ships that we have already bought that have to be the top notch of the ships. Yes, the EULA and their TOS says that the product is subject to change, but NOT according to the European Warranty Law on software/games. And sorry to say, this one overules everything what's been mentioned in their EULA & TOS, the moment that this piece of software has hit the European market. Learn to life with that.
again, no and, erm no. they are not changiing the current content. the game, up
to level 50, will be the same as it has been thus far. the expansion, which you are
not being forced to pay for, constitutes a free additional to the current game, and
as stated on multiple occasions now, you can play it without any need of upgrading
or money to change hands.
it is new content in a FREE TO PLAY GAME. you dont have to pay anything!!!!!!!!!
by the same nonsense you are spouting, anyone who purchased a cstore T3 ship
should be able to demand it be upgraded to T4 then T5 then Fleet.. total tosh!!
Actually the topic should be related to here is "Tier V Ship Upgrades". Oh wait "It Is"! At this point as a player for STO and as a player voicing his concern I frankly am not concerned about the players voicing their concerns in supporting Cryptic and Perfectworld. In fact my concern isn't even if they work for Perfectworld at all because of the two following factors.
A: Holds no relative relation at all to the topic of this thread.
B: The concern of this thread is "Tier V Starship Upgrades". Headline, point made, no punt intended.
As far as conspiracies about Perfectworld, and the forums should be completely reserved for a different thread intirely.
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before itis too late..
Nobody has yet to argue with you and I'm not about to start. Right on man!
btw. how does it fit into the games concept that the flag ships of the federation, the klingon empire and the romulan republic are becoming "outdated junk"?
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
and who is to say that the current flagships will remain so?
Many posters have mentioned that this is a business and that the powers that be need to make money. IMO this is a very FLAWED way to look at the situation. Its the kind of thinking that drove Zynga into dust - cheap, poorly thought out gimmicky cash grabs like what we've been enduring.
Is STO a product? - Yes
What is that product? - A GAME!!!
What is a game supposed to be? - ... fun?
I see people sucking up to this and similar decisions and they are entitled to that opinion as I am mine. IMO this process could have been done in a much more thoughtful and FUN way. Hell, it could have been done in a way that might have been pleasurable to pay/grind for. Upgrading should have been part of the new R&D system. Something you could do after crafting a complete Aegis set for example. Wow - and that only took 5 seconds of thought to come up with.
But no - it seems that it has turned into another attempt to assimilate my credit card and after paying for C-Store items for the last 5 years - why do so many not understand the frustration? If they're really going to go this way - I think T5 C-Store ships should be free to upgrade as well. We didn't pay to have the 3rd-best tier, we paid for what we thought was top end game content. Sure its an MMO and things need to change from time to time - but to continue to go about initiatives this way will only get you so far for so long.
Its just so . . . Zynga-liscious.
OK so tell me this oh wise one. STO is free to play right? And we are not paying for this upcoming expansion, right? So how is Cryptic supposed to make money? And are you really complaining about 5 bucks. If you need that 5 bucks so bad maybe you need to reevaluate your expenses. And I bought my lifetime membership while the game was in beta and have not spent a dime on it after that. Its called the dil exchange. Or you can also take surveys to earn free zen. Its not that big of a deal.
I think that part of the concern stems from what Cryptic's definition of "competitive" means. No offense to Cryptic, but they have shown previously that a clear definitive term has a different meaning for them.
For example, the Cruiser's Weapon Aura grants a 25% weapon energy cost reduction actually comes out to 20%. They defended their usage by showing where in the formula the 25% is factored in and that is the actual 25% they were referring to. Any where else you go, 25% is 25% end result.
Basically, we just have to wait and see what they do. I do not expect that there will be no cost to upgrade. I do hope that they seriously consider making the upgrades more worthwhile than as it is planned. The extra BOff ability alone being added to it would make a huge difference to some.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Sorry dude, how do you not see this as pay to win? The only way to upgrade a T5 ship is to pay. (And they have already clearly stated that an upgrade will not be as good as a T6 ship) The only way mentioned to obtain a T6 ship is to pay. That is nothing BUT Pay to win since if you don't pay you are automatically at a disadvantage. STO has become the newest PTW. There is NOTHING in those blogsd but pay to win.
Oh is doing surveys for free zen or using the dil exchange paying for anything? And they said that it would be competitive. Some people with the best ships out there don't know how to pilot a starship and would lose to me in a tier 1 ship.
" Hell, it could have been done in a way that might have been pleasurable to pay/grind for. Upgrading should have been part of the new R&D system. Something you could do after crafting a complete Aegis set for example. Wow - and that only took 5 seconds of thought to come up with. "
Now imagine if I came up with concepts as my JOB and actually spent more than 5 seconds thinking of something.
Again - maybe it wouldn't have pleased everyone - but I'll bet there are a lot of peeps that would like the idea of customizing their ships first hand. *EDIT* - I'd pay Zen for components to make that happen if it was done right.
But you don't have to pay Zen for crafting. Just like you don't have to pay for the upgrades with your real money either.
This is how i see it, there is already more than enough Cstore Content in the game that you have to PAY for, if i've spent $25+ on a ship or package of ships that are Tier 5 why would i WANT to spend an additional $5 or $10 to upgrade them? it makes no freaking sense that Cstore ships aren't included in the Free to upgrade mess along with one free upgrade per char @ lvl 50... this entire system on what is supposed to be a F2P game is getting a BIT overzealous with the microtransactions and becoming more P2WIN, i started playing STO with the understanding that if i chose to never spend a dime on this game i could enjoy it, well ever since you killed Kerr'at warzone pvp and instituted all the Pay to win bs this game has really become unenjoyable which is why i quit playing for over a year, i came back with legacy of romulus in the hopes that the game would be better but honestly it's not, just more of the same "**** your wallet or make you grind incessantly" bs it was before.
Its a little bit of a grind. Isn't any MMO a grind? I play maybe an hour a day to grind. If you don't like it can I have all of your stuff when you leave?
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
Ummm, how do you know that T5-FU have more hull or shield strength over T6 ships when we have no clue about the T6 stats yet ? Fleet ships have more hull and shields than their base version, no idea how people can compare them to something that we know nothing about yet.
I think that part of the concern stems from what Cryptic's definition of "competitive" means. No offense to Cryptic, but they have shown previously that a clear definitive term has a different meaning for them.
For example, the Cruiser's Weapon Aura grants a 25% weapon energy cost reduction actually comes out to 20%. They defended their usage by showing where in the formula the 25% is factored in and that is the actual 25% they were referring to. Any where else you go, 25% is 25% end result.
Basically, we just have to wait and see what they do. I do not expect that there will be no cost to upgrade. I do hope that they seriously consider making the upgrades more worthwhile than as it is planned. The extra BOff ability alone being added to it would make a huge difference to some.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums.
"Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums."
I have to agree with what you are saying here. Voice is representation including to concerns like this. Well said.
Comments
Tier 5 Fleet and Store ships can be upgraded in the same way as basic T5.
As far as I understood you will be able to upgrade them to second best (almost as good according to Cryptic) for equivalent of $5-$10 worth of Zen per ship.
No refunds planned or mentioned at this point.
And yes, I think it will be a short walk out of the airlock in the end.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before itis too late..
Fleet ships...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18835641&postcount=618
Lock Box ships...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18831241&postcount=331
Impressive, I would agree on most points, either way - well put.
Sure - you're mirroring what a bunch of people on the forums have said. If you think that's a majority of the playerbase you are probably a bit deluded. Most of the people I know who play literally never visit the forums. In the majority of situations like this you'll find that in reality, you are part of a vocal minority.
Unless Cryptic want to actually reveal any hard numbers (unlikely) we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
Regardless, your opinion is still only your opinion (even when it matches that of other people). When you speak, you do so for yourself - not others.
I'm not sure how around 4-5 posts in a thread of over 200 pages is being 'loud', but yes, I've spent money on this game. Probably not as much as some, but my first Character was created prior to it being F2P, and I own plenty of store ships - my latest Fed character is at 50 and hasn't touched a single free ship - everything has been a store purchase. I have 4x active Fed toons at 50, all running with different ships, all store purchases. I have others that are not yet at 50 who have also got ships from the store. If you are suggesting that I'm only relaxed about it because I've never paid them any money, you're very much mistaken.
I just understand that I got what I paid for (Tier X ships with whatever console), because I understand that it's an online game that is subject to change. The T5 ships are clearly defined as such, there is no way to mistake that for a promise that they are 'The best thing in the game forever'.
I also understand that I can still play with all of them after DR launches.
None of which has anything to do with my previous point either way. If you don't like the game, stop playing and do something else with your time that you enjoy. Why waste it on something you are fed up with?
I have work to do, so I need to sign off. I hope that if you are truly this annoyed with the game that you find something else you can enjoy to be so passionate about.
...so it begs the question then, what are the not "and most queues..." that will require a T5-U or T6 ship then, eh?
Cause that puts a different angle on things as far as saying folks can do stuff in their regular ol' T5 boats...
I'll go when I am good and ready, mind your own business, OK peddler? :cool:
Oh goodie, so Cryptic is lying on new content being more challenging or on the need for new ships?
Because you know, if content isn't challenging and can be made with old ships, why have new ships?
Eh?
I don't mind the fee for the upgrade for Tier V Starships. What I do mind however is if they are not even going to consider a "Grandfather Clause" or even a "Reinbursment". In other words a trade in for zen or reduced rate for those with a fleet ship already? What is the worth of the MMO anymore? Even with the Tier VI coming out still the main concern should be,
"Options, options, options."
Pay $5 to $10 per upgrade for each ship. So lets do the math here.
Lets use X=$10 as the up fee to upgrade each ship. Now lets say I own well 5 ships from the Z-Store. What does that factor to?
5 x X= $50
So already with this math it is a no brainer it is going to cost me the same fee for a Ship Bundle Pack say like for the "Galaxy Bundle" or the "Scimitar Bundle" that perhaps one could be investing their money in when instead we have to cough out "$50" to upgrade our ships? Geez I only feel concern for the rest of my fellow gaming brothers and sisters that possibly have more than 5 to deal with.
Now for all kicks and giggles respectfully speaking lets look at that now "other" fee factor for a ship upgrade. This time X=$5
5 x X=$25
So now I am upgrading 5 starships for the price of 1? Again yes I said it once and I will say it again:
"This is going to be one short walk out the airlock."
Now to Perfectworld my favorite line by Clint Eastwood from "Grand Torino"
"Get off my lawn!"
1. Geko has said, from Day 1, that T5U will not be true T6. This is intentional to make us want to buy T6. Obviously, from both the Trekkie's "prototypical" thought pattern (if it ain't canon, it ain't pretty enough to fly) to the completely "oddball" blue hull with scanline heaven design(s), they need to have "incentives" to drop ~$30 per on these ship(s).
1A. However, the claims have been made that T5U (upgraded T5s) will be "competitive" with these T6s. As all the information has not been released - will Specialits fit into universal slots? What will these new traits that primarily come from T6 ships do for you? What level of power will the 13th BOff slot be, and will the 11th console be able to compete with this? (remember, they're calculating the +1 console for T6 from the "baseline" of the L40 T5s, which only had 9. Therefore, T6s have 10 consoles. All T5Us get a bonus console, which, since many T5.5s have 10 to begin with, means the T5U version(s) of those ships will have 11...)
2. On the guess that T6 will cost ~$30, and that the T5Us (especially the T5U11 - 11 console versions - as we call it) will rank as "competitive" enough to work, "paying" the upgrade cost so that the total investment is $30 isn't a "problem" for me. Vesta, for example, is a $25 ship, and if the module costs $5, total investment $30. Galaxy-X is a $20, +$5 for fleet module (T5.5 level), $5 for upgrade = $30.
2A. To reiterate my math. 800 lobi ships "earn" Cryptic: based on an average of 5 lobi per box, it takes about 160 boxes to earn a ship. At $1.25 a key, this is $200. If the "grand prize" ships really drop at a rate of .1%, this means that 1 in a 1000 boxes release the ship. Again, at $1.25 a key, this is $1,250 (I was off a zero before...) that should have been dumped in for the RNG to "grace" us with one of those ships... Since both of these numbers are significantly higher than the $30 investment level for a T6 ship, they "deserve" to be upgraded to the T5U standard automatically. That, and when Fleet ships released in the first place, all existing lockbox-oriented ships automatically (and freely) received said upgrade, so the precedent is set.
Right now, I'll admit that the whole upgrade system "seems" promising while maintaining Cryptic's stated goal of "earning more money" and, oddly enough, maybe keeping the total investment the same for the various styles of power. Is this statement going to hold true? More blogs are required. How pretty am I sitting? That is a matter of debate, of my 3 "mains", all 3 of them fly a ship that will require upgrading (Fed Vesta, KDF C-store DSD, Rommie Fleet T'Varo), but I do have a fallback (Orb Weaver and Recluse on my Fed Main-main, grindaversary DSD on the KDF) And if/when finances permit, I am currently fairly tempted to buy at least 1 actual T6 to grind out a starship trait. Of course, I'm hedging bets right now and waiting for all this intel that has to be dribbled out in the name of "maintaining hype and interest"...
I won't cry foul on a "double-dip", unless the math holds it as true. I won't cry foul on the anticipated "competitiveness" unless either the math or practical experience holds true. Am I going to sing praises? No confirmation has been given to earn said praises. Will I be rightfully concerned? Yep. Can we just blow up the hype machine and get all the info to make proper decisions today? Does anyone have a starship with access to PWE headquarters?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I don't have time to read all the posts that are written here so sorry if this was already mentioned.
I'd be happy if there would be way to sell upgrade tokens on exchange. It could work the same way the Fleet Modules work but it would be new/unique C-Store item. This way there would be more ways to obtain them as there are always players in need of EC that will be willing to sell it. With the current dilithium/zen exchange rates and number of alt characters and ships that I'd like to convert it would be of much help.
Captain Smirk, hope you can give your comment to this as I think so far it wasn't dismissed by the devs.
Thank you.
I have a better idea until more facts. I'm not getting any Tier 6 ships or grinding the new coming grind fest.
The new content I'm assuming will be T5-U(Fleet) level so no need for Tier 6. Additionally, with the skill curve of the crafting system 2,000,000+ skill to get to tier 20 for one school. I'm assuming leveling ships will be at the pace same Additionally, I'm assuming fleet ships will be second best.
Cryptic is face palming and smacking their players around literally. I have a feeling the reason why this wasn't announced at the Las Vegas convention is because they would catch hell. They wasn't going make a bad announcement at the convention. Still they let players be low balled.
They have said that some/all upgrades may use a special upgrade item like Fleet ships require a Fleet Module. The only upgrade process in game currently is T5->Fleet, so it is logical to assume this is how T5->T5-U will work. The exact zen cost would be determined by how many of these zen store items you require to upgrade that ship.
This might even be the zen cost they talk about. One could say the cost of a Fleet ship is 2000 zen because they require 4 FM in the same way the devs now say T5-U will cost 500-1000 zen.
When you look at the games recent history you can be 99% sure upgrades will be handled through the c-store and those items can be sold to other players.
I'm not going to try and speak for anyone here but myself.
I have 4 alts with Chel Gretts (2 now fly Moghs) so I get a free upgrade on 4 alts for a ship I love. Nice. I have to pay for the Moghs? Okay so far, I'd have to to upgrade to Fleet Moghs anyway so not that bad, all things considered. I have the free dyson on most alts too and that's another free upgrade so still not too bad. I have the T'varo retrofit from the LOR Starter Pack I'll have to pay to upgrade... still not too bad. My wife? Pretty much in the same boat I am, ship-wise.
Where I think Cryptic have caused an issue is with the tier 5u and tier 6 nonsense. By creating a distinction between the 2 (arbitrary though it may be) they have created a divide between the 2. Further complicating things is the tier 5fu (fleet ships being upgraded). The number of consoles slots a given tier 5 ship has before upgrading adds further headaches.
Surely a better way of describing this would have been
Cryptic - "Your favourite tier 5 ships (with some exceptions) can be fully upgraded to tier 6. T6 ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 6 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points. This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T6 starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
In addition to your newly upgraded T6 ships we will be introducing a few NEW T6 ships in the C-store which, in addition to the starship mastery and other benefits listed for upgraded T6 ships listed above, will showcase some exciting new features such as an upgraded BOFF seat and a Specialist BOFF seat with new hybrid powers **. These new ships will also feature a 5th level of starship mastery which will unlock a starship trait.
**Not all C-store T6 ships brought out in the future will have this specialist seating."
Would this have been easier to swallow for the players? All upgraded ships are T6, it's just that some new features will be made available through those T6 ships made especially for the C-store. I'd be fine with this description. We the players would need to make the choice between having the extra console, hull, etc. of an upgraded T6 (and any associated costs) and the altered BOFF seating of a C-store T6 plus an as yet un-described trait we'd probably have to slot in place of an existing one anyway. So far I see nothing new here that hasn't been done before. Ships that split, ships that have singularity cores, ships that have advanced battlecloak, ships that have all universal seating, ships with a new console/weapon/BOFF layout.
It's not that different from buying the "best" C-store ship for your toon and upgrading it to fleet and then Cryptic release a new ship that would be even better for your toon so you open your wallet again. The only difference is Cryptic are offering the chance to upgrade your already awesome ship for a fee/free instead of buying the new shiny.
The only issue left is fleet ships and those would surely now be considered T6fleet since the "fleet" is a modifier already and they'll still be better than other T6 upgrades.
I fly the ships I fly because I love them. Some of those will get a free upgrade so I'm happy. Will I buy a T6? Only if it's not fugly as all sin (like, sadly, most of the in-house designs look to me) and it's stats are something I can work with.
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
again, no and, erm no. they are not changiing the current content. the game, up
to level 50, will be the same as it has been thus far. the expansion, which you are
not being forced to pay for, constitutes a free additional to the current game, and
as stated on multiple occasions now, you can play it without any need of upgrading
or money to change hands.
it is new content in a FREE TO PLAY GAME. you dont have to pay anything!!!!!!!!!
by the same nonsense you are spouting, anyone who purchased a cstore T3 ship
should be able to demand it be upgraded to T4 then T5 then Fleet.. total tosh!!
Actually the topic should be related to here is "Tier V Ship Upgrades". Oh wait "It Is"! At this point as a player for STO and as a player voicing his concern I frankly am not concerned about the players voicing their concerns in supporting Cryptic and Perfectworld. In fact my concern isn't even if they work for Perfectworld at all because of the two following factors.
A: Holds no relative relation at all to the topic of this thread.
B: The concern of this thread is "Tier V Starship Upgrades". Headline, point made, no punt intended.
As far as conspiracies about Perfectworld, and the forums should be completely reserved for a different thread intirely.
Thank you for your patronage.
Nobody has yet to argue with you and I'm not about to start. Right on man!
When you look at the stats associated with each tier you will learn that performance-wise:
T5-U10 = Fleet quality ≤ T6 ≤ T5-U11
Looking past the gimmick trait the only difference is the 13th boff on T6 but T5-U11 has a 10% shield, 10% hull, and +1 extra console slot advantage over T6.
and who is to say that the current flagships will remain so?
OK so tell me this oh wise one. STO is free to play right? And we are not paying for this upcoming expansion, right? So how is Cryptic supposed to make money? And are you really complaining about 5 bucks. If you need that 5 bucks so bad maybe you need to reevaluate your expenses. And I bought my lifetime membership while the game was in beta and have not spent a dime on it after that. Its called the dil exchange. Or you can also take surveys to earn free zen. Its not that big of a deal.
For example, the Cruiser's Weapon Aura grants a 25% weapon energy cost reduction actually comes out to 20%. They defended their usage by showing where in the formula the 25% is factored in and that is the actual 25% they were referring to. Any where else you go, 25% is 25% end result.
Basically, we just have to wait and see what they do. I do not expect that there will be no cost to upgrade. I do hope that they seriously consider making the upgrades more worthwhile than as it is planned. The extra BOff ability alone being added to it would make a huge difference to some.
Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums.
Oh is doing surveys for free zen or using the dil exchange paying for anything? And they said that it would be competitive. Some people with the best ships out there don't know how to pilot a starship and would lose to me in a tier 1 ship.
But you don't have to pay Zen for crafting. Just like you don't have to pay for the upgrades with your real money either.
Really? So enlighten us as to what they are so we can share in your thoughts.
Its a little bit of a grind. Isn't any MMO a grind? I play maybe an hour a day to grind. If you don't like it can I have all of your stuff when you leave?
Ummm, how do you know that T5-FU have more hull or shield strength over T6 ships when we have no clue about the T6 stats yet ? Fleet ships have more hull and shields than their base version, no idea how people can compare them to something that we know nothing about yet.
"Using the belief that the forum users are a vocal minority of the players and should not be counted as a true response is a very wrong approach. They are a true representation of total player base. For every one viewpoint shown here, there is at least one additional player that shares it, but does not come to the forums."
I have to agree with what you are saying here. Voice is representation including to concerns like this. Well said.