Well how does the world work? What makes you give out money? This by far is no charity here, STO team creates a product ("digital ships" etc) and attracts buyers. Investment here really is when you trade money against "future fun times". Now in this case the money has been given/taken (and probably spent or invested elsewhere - hopefully not into the crazy idea that is being discussed in this thread), but it seems the investment is about to go bad, since "fun" will be over soon.
I'm simply saying that if I buy something from the cash shop how does that mean you've invested in STO? That makes absolutely no since because I'm the one making the purchase, shouldn't it mean that I'm the one invested in it? Also as far as the time is money argument some are making, I have to say, really? playing STO is your job? seriously? ooooook then.
For those of you who feel it is justified to pay for upgrades and equipment (etc etc) I want you to think about something. I understand that you feel it is only right to financially support this game since you enjoy it. I also understand that nothing, when it comes to developing or maintaining this game, is cheap. But this new expansion is Cryptic/PWE's financial responsibility. We, as a community of Trek fans and MMO gamers alike, did not vote or decide on this expansion (not that we would have). Cryptic/PWE chose for us. I may not be justified in saying so but, financially, it's not our problem. Yes, we should keep the game going. Yes, we should support the developers. But when enough is enough.... enough is enough. Cryptic/PWE chose to go F2P. Which means that they had enough money to offer us the game for free. So, again, it's not our responsibility to support them financially. Cryptic/PWE is not entitled to our money just because they run the game we enjoy. F2P, lifetimers, subscribers, and veterans alike, we need not carry them to their goal. Better yet, we should be aiming for our goal. What we want. I realize, like myself, players have invested a LOT of time and money into what we do have and it's a real pain that we have to keep being told to pay more, and more, and more. Just like we are being told to grind more, and more, and more. It simply is not fair and it should be since this game is not life and I'm no Jem'Hadar when it comes to it. We (everyone) are the life of this game. Without us, this game will go under. Most believe it already is going under. I just hope Cryptic/PWE figures that out in enough time.
When you hit 40 you are given a final free ship to use as you will. A fair number of players upgrade these with rep/fleet items and continue to use them endgame. As releases have come and gone it has been more and more difficult to remain competitive with the new content. With the upcoming release theT4 ships will be, to all intents and purposes, obsolete. The people who pilot these ships may do so for many reasons and I still do it occasionally for nostalgia or a challenge, but people who only fly T4 will effectively be forced into buying Retrofit, Fleet or Tier 6 ships. The game will lose some of its diversity in hulls being flown but also risks these Captains leaving STO. Should any of the previously T4 Captains decide to continue they will probably get the most mileage in skipping T5, T5-U, T5.5 or T5.5U ships and going straight to T6. Some may say T4 Captains contribute little in the way of real money to the game up to the decision to keep playing or upgrade but they add population and diversity which any MMO must retain to stay healthy.
Now lets look at the mess of ship upgrading. One example would be a dedicated Mogai pilot who has purchased the Valdore (1000Z), the Mogai Retrofit (2000Z) and the Mogai Fleet (500Z), in total perhaps more than enough for a T6 where T4 upgraders can go direct to T6 for the same investment. Any T5 or T5.5 Captain who wants to keep his beloved ship will only get a T5.4 or T5.9 upgrade for the overall investment in the game of a T6. Many Captains have repeated the purchasing of all tiered versions of the hulls they like many times and in the case of those who bought the full Dyson Science Destroyer Pack, took 9 ships for an investment of 10000Z. The pilots who have done this perhaps have a right to be upset that they are being asked to pay perhaps 500 - 1000Z for Under T6 upgrades. It would have been simpler to just do an upgrade sequence of 1 discounted fleet type module needed to upgrade your ship. T5 - T6 would need 2, T5.5 - Full T6 would need one without exception. These modules could be purchased for say 250Z keeping the flow of money coming, more people could upgrade easily and T6 would be available to many more hulls. Everyone would be treated in a more equal manner than the currently proposed solution.
Why introduce XIII and XIV items in the game when more power can be squeezed from what we have by an overall cap increase to 130 or 135 for T6 ships. This may force harder decisions on what systems to steal power from and where to put it. This without the increase in hull strength would be a better solution as it would force the need for more dedicated support from Science ships, proper threat generation from Cruisers and threat control by Escorts rather than yet another release with Nuke everything builds being the way to go.
Here's how I see it in regards to PWE and their business decisions:
Perfect world doesn't want STO; Perfect World doesn't like STO. They want Neverwinter to be the go-to game and the big money-maker. But they can't just pull the plug on STO without a massive backlash and lawsuit from CBS that will likely bankrupt the company. So they opted for a slow burn.
They deliberately make bad decisions that will drive players away from the game and reduce the amount of players online. When the total server population drops below a set point, they can go to CBS and claim that there just isn't enough player interest in the game anymore and petition to have the plug pulled and servers shut down.
In Perfect World's mind, doing this will force all of the STO players into Neverwinter and other PWE titles. in reality it will just kill PWE outright because Neverwinter and many of their other titles simply don't have the rabid fan following that Star Trek does and simply can't pull down the kind of revenue influx necessary to keep the ship afloat.
So decisions like this with the T5-U are simply one symptom of PWE blatant and shameless greed and their myopic approach to what players want. Not really apologizing for Cryptic here (because this is a remarkably bad move), but in truth, they have to do what PWE tells them to do, because if they don't they lose their jobs. So we end up with results like this that literally make no logical sense whatsoever, and because Cryptic has already stated that player feedback is irrelevant (I'm looking at you Tacofangs) no changes of any kind will be made and we are all just waiting for the server population to die off so PWE can pull the plug.
If the issue is that STO team needs to get somehow paid for the new content they produce, I'd rather see them charge everyone a fair amount for the content instead of having those of us that have bought a substantial number of ships over years, pay more in order to get all ships in line with stats upgrades over upcoming content.
For those of you who feel it is justified to pay for upgrades and equipment (etc etc) I want you to think about something. I understand that you feel it is only right to financially support this game since you enjoy it. I also understand that nothing, when it comes to developing or maintaining this game, is cheap. But this new expansion is Cryptic/PWE's financial responsibility. We, as a community of Trek fans and MMO gamers alike, did not vote or decide on this expansion (not that we would have). Cryptic/PWE chose for us. I may not be justified in saying so but, financially, it's not our problem. Yes, we should keep the game going. Yes, we should support the developers. But when enough is enough.... enough is enough. Cryptic/PWE chose to go F2P. Which means that they had enough money to offer us the game for free. So, again, it's not our responsibility to support them financially. Cryptic/PWE is not entitled to our money just because they run the game we enjoy. F2P, lifetimers, subscribers, and veterans alike, we need not carry them to their goal. Better yet, we should be aiming for our goal. What we want. I realize, like myself, players have invested a LOT of time and money into what we do have and it's a real pain that we have to keep being told to pay more, and more, and more. Just like we are being told to grind more, and more, and more. It simply is not fair and it should be since this game is not life and I'm no Jem'Hadar when it comes to it. We (everyone) are the life of this game. Without us, this game will go under. Most believe it already is going under. I just hope Cryptic/PWE figures that out in enough time.
See, now this makes since. Though, from what I see on here a few people won't get it. Sure we're told the new T6 ships won't replace our T5s, They even want to make is believe we can buy our way to making our T5s equal or near equal to the T6 but seriously, at this point, who believes that? I believe that like I believe them when they say they look into glitchs in the game only to see patch after patch after patch that are nothing more than something lock box related.
I'm simply saying that if I buy something from the cash shop how does that mean you've invested in STO? That makes absolutely no since because I'm the one making the purchase, shouldn't it mean that I'm the one invested in it? Also as far as the time is money argument some are making, I have to say, really? playing STO is your job? seriously? ooooook then.
Wow, for you concepts like the "invisible hand" (Adam Smith) must be next to magic.
Quoting Clarkes Third Law:
Any sufficiently advanced market economy is indistinguishable from magic.
saying: i surrender.... not a chance to counter deliberate ignorance,
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
ok, you have 3 shiny shells that i want, now you being a chimpanzee, you have
no need for money, so through the power of gesticulation, you tell me that you
want bananas. i dont have any bananas, so i need to go to a banana shop to buy
some with the cash that i have. so in order to get the shells from you, ive gone
to a shop, made a purchase that you, as a chimpanzee, are unaware of, have no
understanding of or interest in.. all you see are the bananas. this zen/lobi/ec thing
is no different, in both situations both parties have invested in the system.
Wow, for you concepts like the "invisible hand" (Adam Smith) must be next to magic.
Quoting Clarkes Third Law:
Any sufficiently advanced market economy is indistinguishable from magic.
saying: i surrender.... not a chance to counter deliberate ignorance,
Do this, go into a store, grab something off a shelf and walk out with it, when a cop grabs you say oh I don't have to pay for it because someone else already paid for one at some time, let us know what happens.
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Why not make the new T5-U upgrade items tradeable, like Fleet Modules? Seems like that would solve everyone's problems.
I wanted to pop in and answer some common questions that I am seeing. Some I have already answered, but it might be nice to have them all in one place.
Q: Will Fleet Ship Upgrades be account unlock? Or single unlock per character?
A: Fleet Ships Upgrades are account unlocks. However, you must still purchase the Fleet ship to be upgraded on another character. I answered this in an earlier post, but I admit it could have been a little more clear.
Example: You purchase a fleet ship for fleet modules and fleet credits on character A. You then decide to upgrade this ship to T5-U and must pay the upgrade cost. You log onto character B and you want to get the Fleet T5-U ship. Character B will need to spend the fleet modules and fleet credits associated with this ship, but the upgrade to Fleet T5-U will be free.
Q: Will there be a noticeable difference between an upgraded regular T5 ship vs an upgraded T5 Fleet ship?
A: Yes. The difference between a T5 ship and a Fleet T5 ship will be the same as the difference between a T5-U ship and a Fleet T5-U ship. In short, the Fleet T5-U ship will have 10% more hull and shield HP and have +1 console slot over a standard T5-U ship.
Q: Why don't T5-Us get level 5 in Starship Mastery?
A: I think there's a bit of confusion of what these levels actually mean. Levels 1-4 on both T5-Us and T6 ships are the same. They're passive buffs for your ship. They're the same strength as well. So, a +damage buff Starship Mastery ability on a T5-U Escort is the same as a T6 Escort. Level 5 is a starship trait unlock. There is no additional benefit. Since T5-Us don't have a starship trait unlock, they don't need level 5.
Q: Will this upgrade system affect Shuttlecraft in any way?
A: Shuttles will not be upgradeable. They will not be affected by this system at all since Shuttle content is effectively leveless.
Q: Will/can the Ambassador Class Ship included in this upgrade? Either the Aniv Version or the Fleet equivalent?
A: The Support Cruiser Retrofit (earned from completing Temporal Ambassador while the 2013 Anniversary Event was active) is not upgradeable, however the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit is upgradeable to T5-U.
I know many of you still have many burning questions. Some of them we just can't talk about yet as we're still early in development, or we the information will be released in a future blog post. Anyhow, I hope these answers help clear up some confusion.
Best Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Being T5U upgrades are for one ship only. Could we get a T5U upgrade bundle?
Example: you could pay 500 zen to upgrade your Fleet Atrox or pay 750 zen for a Atrox and a Fleet Atrox upgrade. Even if you don't own a fleet variant yet. Say your fleet holdings aren't high enough for a Fleet ship but you don't want to miss out on new content and feel like your wasting money on upgrading a T5 ship.
Here is another one: Pay 500 zen to upgrade your Science Vesta or pay 1000 zen to upgrade all if you own them all. This would be an option for people who like to switch around and play in different variants. Also to keep from devaluing ship bundles.
Just a thought.
Do this, go into a store, grab something off a shelf and walk out with it, when a cop grabs you say oh I don't have to pay for it because someone else already paid for one at some time, let us know what happens.
No, you go into a store. You grab something off the shelf. Walk out with it. When the cops stop you, you tell them that you already sunk hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars into the store, and the grocery store should just stop being greedy and concentrate on what really matters, like keeping people fed.
Being T5U upgrades are for one ship only. Could we get a T5U upgrade bundle?
Example: you could pay 500 zen to upgrade your Fleet Atrox or pay 750 zen for a Atrox and a Fleet Atrox upgrade. Even if you don't own a fleet variant yet. Say your fleet holdings aren't high enough for a Fleet ship but you don't want to miss out on new content and feel like your wasting money on upgrading a T5 ship.
Here is another one:Pay 500 zen to upgrade your Science Vesta or pay 1000 zen to upgrade all if you own them all. This would be an option for people who like to switch around and play in different variants. Also to keep from devaluing ship bundles.
Just a thought.
ok, you have 3 shiny shells that i want, now you being a chimpanzee, you have
no need for money, so through the power of gesticulation, you tell me that you
want bananas. i dont have any bananas, so i need to go to a banana shop to buy
some with the cash that i have. so in order to get the shells from you, ive gone
to a shop, made a purchase that you, as a chimpanzee, are unaware of, have no
understanding of or interest in.. all you see are the bananas. this zen/lobi/ec thing
is no different, in both situations both parties have invested in the system.
oooook
Oook?
Pratchett?
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
Why not make the new T5-U upgrade items tradeable, like Fleet Modules? Seems like that would solve everyone's problems.
They probably will be exactly like Fleet modules, you can buy them with dil/zen and sell them to other people if you want. They already set up this system with FM so it is most likely the one they will use.
And I believe they also said not all upgrades will require an item.
Do this, go into a store, grab something off a shelf and walk out with it, when a cop grabs you say oh I don't have to pay for it because someone else already paid for one at some time, let us know what happens.
That's sort of how STO's F2P model works, but since there is no way to cash out your in-game assets (within the terms of TOS, and ignoring EC/item sellers that specifically violate TOS) the taxability issue is debatable.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Do this, go into a store, grab something off a shelf and walk out with it, when a cop grabs you say oh I don't have to pay for it because someone else already paid for one at some time, let us know what happens.
One last time (this time really) trade does not work that way,
Step a)
You have to earn the money, (normally with work Option A, Daddys little Princess is Option
Step b) *then* you grab something from the shelf,
Step c) you *use the money* to pay your grabbed item.
Step d) *now* you can walk out
No wonder that you had Cop encounters in the past... dont skip Step a and c!
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
Being T5U upgrades are for one ship only. Could we get a T5U upgrade bundle?
Example: you could pay 500 zen to upgrade your Fleet Atrox or pay 750 zen for a Atrox and a Fleet Atrox upgrade. Even if you don't own a fleet variant yet. Say your fleet holdings aren't high enough for a Fleet ship but you don't want to miss out on new content and feel like your wasting money on upgrading a T5 ship.
Here is another one: Pay 500 zen to upgrade your Science Vesta or pay 1000 zen to upgrade all if you own them all. This would be an option for people who like to switch around and play in different variants. Also to keep from devaluing ship bundles.
Just a thought.
For all we know ship bundles will get upgrade discounts, we do not have enough information to know for sure.
Don't forget that zen ships that are already fleet quality, like those in bundles, can be upgraded straight to T5-U11 without the extra cost of a fleet variant
No, you go into a store. You grab something off the shelf. Walk out with it. When the cops stop you, you tell them that you already sunk hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars into the store, and the grocery store should just stop being greedy and concentrate on what really matters, like keeping people fed.
again, when did I ask for the T5 upgrade to be free? I must have said in like 5 or 6 posts now I'm not asking for that, I'm simply saying that if lock box ships and lobi ships are free upgrades than cash shop ones should be too or they should all require payment. your the one choosing to interpret that as me asking for free stuff.
again, when did I ask for the T5 upgrade to be free? I must have said in like 5 or 6 posts now I'm not asking for that, I'm simply saying that if lock box ships and lobi ships are free upgrades than cash shop ones should be too or they should all require payment. your the one choosing to interpret that as me asking for free stuff.
Actually, I was just wanting to push the crazy rhetoric one step further.
Actually, I was just wanting to push the crazy rhetoric one step further.
lol who's crazy rhetoric? what I'm hearing is that anything I buy on STO, gold membership, cash shop, whatever means someone else has invested in STO by my doing that, not me. and somehow I'm considered weird for finding that argument a lil odd.
Whats wrong with what you just said, lets see, Zen bought with dilithium via the exchange is zen that was bought by a player with real money and then sold by THAT player to others for dilithium. In other words: Regardless of how the zen or zen item made its way into the hands of the player, it was still payed for by real money to Cryptic/PWE.
That's a really dumb argument and here is why, If I buy a master key from the exchange, I'm paying energy credits which is obtainable in game very easy. Your saying yes, so? it was still bought with zen, while that is true, it wasn't my zen that bought it, therefore I got a free master key that didn't cost me real money. Making any since to you? Let me try it this way, I buy X item and give X item to you, does that mean you paid for it? no, it means you received it as a gift and therefore was free to you.
Random thought-explanation department:
Let's shift this from Master Keys / Zen / EC / Cryptic to, say, Ford Car / $$$ / Harley bike / Ford Motor Co...
I'm looking out for a Ford Car. I can either run to the dealer and pay Ford $TRIBBLE for said car, or maybe cut a deal with you and have you buy said car with your $TRIBBLE and then exchange said car for a Harley...
See, I get a car either way. Ford gets $TRIBBLE either way. However, in one scenerio I shelled directly to Ford Motors, in the other you shelled directly to Ford Motors and traded your car for an item of "identical value" to you...
This is the heart of the "Somebody has to pay Cryptic Zen to create that master key on the exchange" argument.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Its oddly nostalgic, this thread. Probably because there's been a nigh identical one about every thing Cryptic's done since closed beta. Heck, before this game existed...anybody remember Vibora Bay? Cryptic's greedy, game is doomed, anyone who disagrees is a fanboy, yadda yadda ad infinitum.
here is economics in a nutshell. A bank owned by a few rich people prints paper money and loans it to other banks and the government. The banks loan it to companies who use it to pay you. You use it to buy goods and services from the companies. All of this is based on you thinking this paper is worth bothering to use. You of course don't have to use it you can trade or use anything you and others agree is money. The point to this is you if don't like don't play. I don't intend too, if this is how they are going to run this ship.
lol who's crazy rhetoric? what I'm hearing is that anything I buy on STO, gold membership, cash shop, whatever means someone else has invested in STO by my doing that, not me. and somehow I'm considered weird for finding that argument a lil odd.
here's a thought, i'm guessing people could just avoid playing the expansion and never
enter the Delta Quadrant. i'm sure i read that there will be no changes to the current
end game. that would maintain the staus quo for those who 'didn't sign up' for the
expansion and would save a boatload on upgrade costs. people used to do that in wow,
there where entire guilds that capped at level 60 on some servers.. just because they
make it doesnt mean you have to play or pay for it (think i may have stolen that quote
from a post somewhere else in this thread)
Not a fan of having to pay more zen to upgrade my ships and then having them end up being subpar to the tier 6 ships especially when half of my captains ships won't be upgraded for free and they all use different ships.
again, when did I ask for the T5 upgrade to be free? I must have said in like 5 or 6 posts now I'm not asking for that, I'm simply saying that if lock box ships and lobi ships are free upgrades than cash shop ones should be too or they should all require payment. your the one choosing to interpret that as me asking for free stuff.
Box/lobi ships are unique and not like "cash shop." They can not be directly purchased like zen ships, their acquisition is not guaranteed like zen ships, they are very rare compared to the guaranteed unlimited supply of zen ships, they can not be reclaimed like zen ships, and they are bound to character unlike the account wide unlocks of zen ships.
Basically their cost is significantly higher than zen ships, they are much harder to get, and they provide much less of a benefit. They are treated different because they are different.
Of course if they did require the same payment I wouldn't mind.
But this new expansion is Cryptic/PWE's financial responsibility.
All of it is there financial responsibility...er...you just said that with your previous statement, which leads me to believe your previous statement was false.
We, as a community of Trek fans and MMO gamers alike, did not vote or decide on this expansion (not that we would have).
Why on Earth do you think players would get to vote?...is the first question that comes to mind. The second question is...How on Earth do you think you know what the result of such a vote would have been anyway? Dude, who do you think you are to speak for everybody?
I may not be justified in saying so but, financially, it's not our problem.
So going back to what you said above, you should get a vote without being a financial stakeholder in the outcome? Do you bother reading what you are typing?...or...do you just wing it for the lulz?
Again, if they provide things we want...then we will buy them. If they do not provide things we want...then we will not buy them. That's how players vote...with their wallets. If Cryptic does something that generates revenue, they will keep doing things like that. If Cryptic does something that fails to generate revenue, they will stop doing things like that. It's as simple as that.
There will never be enough. Many players will want more power - more to do - it's part of what a MMO is...it's ongoing. With a standalone game, you buy it - that's it...there might be some DLC here and there that you buy - there might be a sequel with some DLC you buy...even there this is an ongoing relationship. There will never be enough.
So, again, it's not our responsibility to support them financially.
With the acknowledgment that if the game does not generate revenue that it will be shut down...right? Cause you understand that, right? Based on your previous statement, it's obvious that you do not understand that...but you understand that, right?
I realize, like myself, players have invested a LOT of time and money into what we do have and it's a real pain that we have to keep being told to pay more, and more, and more.
Really? Cause I do not have that problem in the least...cause that's pretty much how everything is in life. Outside of somebody that's wealthy beyond imagination and has never had to give a thought to it or somebody that's third generation welfare...pretty much everybody knows that.
Comments
I'm simply saying that if I buy something from the cash shop how does that mean you've invested in STO? That makes absolutely no since because I'm the one making the purchase, shouldn't it mean that I'm the one invested in it? Also as far as the time is money argument some are making, I have to say, really? playing STO is your job? seriously? ooooook then.
When you hit 40 you are given a final free ship to use as you will. A fair number of players upgrade these with rep/fleet items and continue to use them endgame. As releases have come and gone it has been more and more difficult to remain competitive with the new content. With the upcoming release theT4 ships will be, to all intents and purposes, obsolete. The people who pilot these ships may do so for many reasons and I still do it occasionally for nostalgia or a challenge, but people who only fly T4 will effectively be forced into buying Retrofit, Fleet or Tier 6 ships. The game will lose some of its diversity in hulls being flown but also risks these Captains leaving STO. Should any of the previously T4 Captains decide to continue they will probably get the most mileage in skipping T5, T5-U, T5.5 or T5.5U ships and going straight to T6. Some may say T4 Captains contribute little in the way of real money to the game up to the decision to keep playing or upgrade but they add population and diversity which any MMO must retain to stay healthy.
Now lets look at the mess of ship upgrading. One example would be a dedicated Mogai pilot who has purchased the Valdore (1000Z), the Mogai Retrofit (2000Z) and the Mogai Fleet (500Z), in total perhaps more than enough for a T6 where T4 upgraders can go direct to T6 for the same investment. Any T5 or T5.5 Captain who wants to keep his beloved ship will only get a T5.4 or T5.9 upgrade for the overall investment in the game of a T6. Many Captains have repeated the purchasing of all tiered versions of the hulls they like many times and in the case of those who bought the full Dyson Science Destroyer Pack, took 9 ships for an investment of 10000Z. The pilots who have done this perhaps have a right to be upset that they are being asked to pay perhaps 500 - 1000Z for Under T6 upgrades. It would have been simpler to just do an upgrade sequence of 1 discounted fleet type module needed to upgrade your ship. T5 - T6 would need 2, T5.5 - Full T6 would need one without exception. These modules could be purchased for say 250Z keeping the flow of money coming, more people could upgrade easily and T6 would be available to many more hulls. Everyone would be treated in a more equal manner than the currently proposed solution.
Why introduce XIII and XIV items in the game when more power can be squeezed from what we have by an overall cap increase to 130 or 135 for T6 ships. This may force harder decisions on what systems to steal power from and where to put it. This without the increase in hull strength would be a better solution as it would force the need for more dedicated support from Science ships, proper threat generation from Cruisers and threat control by Escorts rather than yet another release with Nuke everything builds being the way to go.
Here's how I see it in regards to PWE and their business decisions:
Perfect world doesn't want STO; Perfect World doesn't like STO. They want Neverwinter to be the go-to game and the big money-maker. But they can't just pull the plug on STO without a massive backlash and lawsuit from CBS that will likely bankrupt the company. So they opted for a slow burn.
They deliberately make bad decisions that will drive players away from the game and reduce the amount of players online. When the total server population drops below a set point, they can go to CBS and claim that there just isn't enough player interest in the game anymore and petition to have the plug pulled and servers shut down.
In Perfect World's mind, doing this will force all of the STO players into Neverwinter and other PWE titles. in reality it will just kill PWE outright because Neverwinter and many of their other titles simply don't have the rabid fan following that Star Trek does and simply can't pull down the kind of revenue influx necessary to keep the ship afloat.
So decisions like this with the T5-U are simply one symptom of PWE blatant and shameless greed and their myopic approach to what players want. Not really apologizing for Cryptic here (because this is a remarkably bad move), but in truth, they have to do what PWE tells them to do, because if they don't they lose their jobs. So we end up with results like this that literally make no logical sense whatsoever, and because Cryptic has already stated that player feedback is irrelevant (I'm looking at you Tacofangs) no changes of any kind will be made and we are all just waiting for the server population to die off so PWE can pull the plug.
See, now this makes since. Though, from what I see on here a few people won't get it. Sure we're told the new T6 ships won't replace our T5s, They even want to make is believe we can buy our way to making our T5s equal or near equal to the T6 but seriously, at this point, who believes that? I believe that like I believe them when they say they look into glitchs in the game only to see patch after patch after patch that are nothing more than something lock box related.
Wow, for you concepts like the "invisible hand" (Adam Smith) must be next to magic.
Quoting Clarkes Third Law:
Any sufficiently advanced market economy is indistinguishable from magic.
saying: i surrender.... not a chance to counter deliberate ignorance,
ahhh, chimpanzee.. now we're getting somewhere..
ok, you have 3 shiny shells that i want, now you being a chimpanzee, you have
no need for money, so through the power of gesticulation, you tell me that you
want bananas. i dont have any bananas, so i need to go to a banana shop to buy
some with the cash that i have. so in order to get the shells from you, ive gone
to a shop, made a purchase that you, as a chimpanzee, are unaware of, have no
understanding of or interest in.. all you see are the bananas. this zen/lobi/ec thing
is no different, in both situations both parties have invested in the system.
oooook
Do this, go into a store, grab something off a shelf and walk out with it, when a cop grabs you say oh I don't have to pay for it because someone else already paid for one at some time, let us know what happens.
Why not make the new T5-U upgrade items tradeable, like Fleet Modules? Seems like that would solve everyone's problems.
Being T5U upgrades are for one ship only. Could we get a T5U upgrade bundle?
Example: you could pay 500 zen to upgrade your Fleet Atrox or pay 750 zen for a Atrox and a Fleet Atrox upgrade. Even if you don't own a fleet variant yet. Say your fleet holdings aren't high enough for a Fleet ship but you don't want to miss out on new content and feel like your wasting money on upgrading a T5 ship.
Here is another one: Pay 500 zen to upgrade your Science Vesta or pay 1000 zen to upgrade all if you own them all. This would be an option for people who like to switch around and play in different variants. Also to keep from devaluing ship bundles.
Just a thought.
No, you go into a store. You grab something off the shelf. Walk out with it. When the cops stop you, you tell them that you already sunk hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars into the store, and the grocery store should just stop being greedy and concentrate on what really matters, like keeping people fed.
ahh the sweet sound of a sensible post..
Oook?
Pratchett?
They probably will be exactly like Fleet modules, you can buy them with dil/zen and sell them to other people if you want. They already set up this system with FM so it is most likely the one they will use.
And I believe they also said not all upgrades will require an item.
just seeing his name makes me smile
Off-topic, but this is how barter works:
Four Things You Should Know if You Barter
That's sort of how STO's F2P model works, but since there is no way to cash out your in-game assets (within the terms of TOS, and ignoring EC/item sellers that specifically violate TOS) the taxability issue is debatable.
One last time (this time really) trade does not work that way,
Step a)
You have to earn the money, (normally with work Option A, Daddys little Princess is Option
Step b) *then* you grab something from the shelf,
Step c) you *use the money* to pay your grabbed item.
Step d) *now* you can walk out
No wonder that you had Cop encounters in the past... dont skip Step a and c!
For all we know ship bundles will get upgrade discounts, we do not have enough information to know for sure.
Don't forget that zen ships that are already fleet quality, like those in bundles, can be upgraded straight to T5-U11 without the extra cost of a fleet variant
again, when did I ask for the T5 upgrade to be free? I must have said in like 5 or 6 posts now I'm not asking for that, I'm simply saying that if lock box ships and lobi ships are free upgrades than cash shop ones should be too or they should all require payment. your the one choosing to interpret that as me asking for free stuff.
Actually, I was just wanting to push the crazy rhetoric one step further.
lol who's crazy rhetoric? what I'm hearing is that anything I buy on STO, gold membership, cash shop, whatever means someone else has invested in STO by my doing that, not me. and somehow I'm considered weird for finding that argument a lil odd.
Random thought-explanation department:
Let's shift this from Master Keys / Zen / EC / Cryptic to, say, Ford Car / $$$ / Harley bike / Ford Motor Co...
I'm looking out for a Ford Car. I can either run to the dealer and pay Ford $TRIBBLE for said car, or maybe cut a deal with you and have you buy said car with your $TRIBBLE and then exchange said car for a Harley...
See, I get a car either way. Ford gets $TRIBBLE either way. However, in one scenerio I shelled directly to Ford Motors, in the other you shelled directly to Ford Motors and traded your car for an item of "identical value" to you...
This is the heart of the "Somebody has to pay Cryptic Zen to create that master key on the exchange" argument.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I don't consider you weird.
enter the Delta Quadrant. i'm sure i read that there will be no changes to the current
end game. that would maintain the staus quo for those who 'didn't sign up' for the
expansion and would save a boatload on upgrade costs. people used to do that in wow,
there where entire guilds that capped at level 60 on some servers.. just because they
make it doesnt mean you have to play or pay for it (think i may have stolen that quote
from a post somewhere else in this thread)
Box/lobi ships are unique and not like "cash shop." They can not be directly purchased like zen ships, their acquisition is not guaranteed like zen ships, they are very rare compared to the guaranteed unlimited supply of zen ships, they can not be reclaimed like zen ships, and they are bound to character unlike the account wide unlocks of zen ships.
Basically their cost is significantly higher than zen ships, they are much harder to get, and they provide much less of a benefit. They are treated different because they are different.
Of course if they did require the same payment I wouldn't mind.
Okay...
Don't see what that has to do with the first item...
At what level do you understand that?
All of it is there financial responsibility...er...you just said that with your previous statement, which leads me to believe your previous statement was false.