Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship?
A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the games story content without requiring the purchase of a starship.
Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isnt designed to require these ships.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
edited August 2014
C-Store Odyssey and the Vesta are listed for upgrade.
Keys on the exchange ARE bought with real money, THEN sold for energy credits. Thus: Cryptic made the money from the key sales regardless of who actually uses they and how they obtained it.
AND (just because I am amazed how many people don't understand this):
Zen bought with dilithium via the exchange is zen that was bought by a player with real money and then sold by THAT player to others for dilithium.
In other words: Regardless of how the zen or zen item made its way into the hands of the player, it was still payed for by real money to Cryptic/PWE.
Finally, linking this reply by Gorngonzolla since it seems that a lot of folks posting on this thread missed it:
Whats wrong with what you just said, lets see, Zen bought with dilithium via the exchange is zen that was bought by a player with real money and then sold by THAT player to others for dilithium. In other words: Regardless of how the zen or zen item made its way into the hands of the player, it was still payed for by real money to Cryptic/PWE.
That's a really dumb argument and here is why, If I buy a master key from the exchange, I'm paying energy credits which is obtainable in game very easy. Your saying yes, so? it was still bought with zen, while that is true, it wasn't my zen that bought it, therefore I got a free master key that didn't cost me real money. Making any since to you? Let me try it this way, I buy X item and give X item to you, does that mean you paid for it? no, it means you received it as a gift and therefore was free to you.
No, just stating a fact, that people who got lock box ships and lobi ships didn't spend as much on them as they want everyone to believe. I'm sure a lot of those lock box keys were bought via energy credits or zen obtained from selling dilithium earned from other lock box's mine claim items. Your math is counting on someone opening hundreds of lock boxes with each key having been paid for with zen they bought with real money.
With your argument everyone who buys a Masterkey from the Exchange summons it out of thin air (in a metaphorical sense), sorry, didn't work that way.
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
With your argument everyone who buys a Masterkey from the Exchange summons it out of thin air (in a metaphorical sense), sorry, didn't work that way.
No, what I'm saying is if you buy it off the exchange your not paying real money for it, energy credits are not real currency, atleast not here in the US anyway so atleast in this country you would have bought the key using fake in game currency which is easy to obtain.
Whats wrong with what you just said, lets see, Zen bought with dilithium via the exchange is zen that was bought by a player with real money and then sold by THAT player to others for dilithium. In other words: Regardless of how the zen or zen item made its way into the hands of the player, it was still payed for by real money to Cryptic/PWE.
That's a really dumb argument and here is why, If I buy a master key from the exchange, I'm paying energy credits which is obtainable in game very easy. Your saying yes, so? it was still bought with zen, while that is true, it wasn't my zen that bought it, therefore I got a free master key that didn't cost me real money. Making any since to you? Let me try it this way, I buy X item and give X item to you, does that mean you paid for it? no, it means you received it as a gift and therefore was free to you.
really, if you want to see what constitutes a really dumb arguement or statement you need
to check out this
it doesnt matter what the final curency used is, the initial transaction was for real money to purchase
the zen, to get the key, to use or sell the key, to open the box, to get the ship or the lobi, to sell
the ship for ec or buy a ship for lobi to sell for ec.. the point is regardless of how you aquire a lobi or
lockbox ship, cryptic have received real money for it.
A: I think there's a bit of confusion of what these levels actually mean. Levels 1-4 on both T5-Us and T6 ships are the same. They're passive buffs for your ship. They're the same strength as well. So, a +damage buff Starship Mastery ability on a T5-U Escort is the same as a T6 Escort. Level 5 is a starship trait unlock. There is no additional benefit. Since T5-Us don't have a starship trait unlock, they don't need level 5.
Won't this leave them short one level worth of HP and all that?
Keys on the exchange ARE bought with real money, THEN sold for energy credits. Thus: Cryptic made the money from the key sales regardless of who actually uses they and how they obtained it.
AND (just because I am amazed how many people don't understand this):
Zen bought with dilithium via the exchange is zen that was bought by a player with real money and then sold by THAT player to others for dilithium.
In other words: Regardless of how the zen or zen item made its way into the hands of the player, it was still payed for by real money to Cryptic/PWE.
Finally, linking this reply by Gorngonzolla since it seems that a lot of folks posting on this thread missed it:
It's interesting that you take Cryptic at their word. They misled people to sale more Romulan Duty Officer packs by saying that the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be upgraded to "Tier 6 capabilities," clearly to get out of legalities, and many took them at their word. Now we see that the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is T5U... "Tier 6 is not inferior."
/sarcasm on
But they do have one extra thing no other ship does, but obviously not inferior.
/sarcasm off
Like I mentioned before, lockbox ships on par with Fleet ships, upgrade Fleet ships along with Lockbox ones or make everyone pay for a full T6 upgrade to ships.
FYI, I have too many Fleet ships to pay for (again, I might add), I want to roll with my iconic ships (that I payed for) and not be locked in to buying the new T6 ships (which I will undoubtedly buy later) to remain competitive (PvP) and take advantage of the new Lvl 60 T6 Queues...
y dont they just give full upgrade option to t6 on all ships as well as the new t6 ships
seems the most logical thing to do
then they get money which is all they want an players get what they want an everyone tis happy
It's what I said,
the T5 line up of ships holds most of the players' favourite. The T6 line is likely to be disliked, why replace the first with the latter?
They could have saved time and money invested creating those ugly ships by just releasing the T6 mechanich as a paid upgrade for ALL T5 ships.
They would have had their money spending less, and the customers would be happy flying their beloved ships.
Instead they wanted to milk more than we can agree on,
and sell both new T6 ships and an half "upgrade"
that's the third payment for the same ship without it being on par with endgame... Bad move.
Again, complaining, whining, ranting, raging and occasionally flaming in the forums
isn't going to take us any results other than have threads closed and our space to express our opinions locked off.
As long as the cash flow keeps arriving at them, they'll continue in their policies.
If half the people who expressed disagreement with this particular issue went to action and BOICOT T6 SHIPS,
they'll have to change their plan.
I still dream from time to time about using the Gateway to doff off-game in spare minutes as we were told
Let me try it this way, I buy X item and give X item to you, does that mean you paid for it? no, it means you received it as a gift and therefore was free to you.
Wow, i would actually like that, i wish i could get Keys that way more often..
But Joke aside:
If i buy Item Y and give it to you to get item Z, thats called trade, in that case it isn't free for me (or you)
Example B:
I sell item Y at the exchange, and buy item Z from the exchange for the EC, thats still called trade (and not free for either side).
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
It's interesting that you take Cryptic at their word. They misled people to sale more Romulan Duty Officer packs by saying that the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be upgraded to "Tier 6 capabilities," clearly to get out of legalities, and many took them at their word. Now we see that the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is T5U... "Tier 6 is not inferior."
/sarcasm on
But they do have one extra thing no other ship does, but obviously not inferior.
/sarcasm off
Like I mentioned before, lockbox ships on par with Fleet ships, upgrade free ships along with Lockbox ones or make everyone pay for a full T6 upgrade to ships.
thanks for the sarcasm banner
i think part of the deal is they want to move away from the current tier of faction ships
into new modern ships, the upgrade is more of a bone than a neccessity and well if you
want to use your old ship instead of the new breed, its going to cost a little something,
either that or it stays as it is and it will still work but not as good as the guy next to you.
lobi ships are of course a very steady flow of income that they wish to maintain, those
ships exist outside of the faction system, so to speak, so it makes sense to do as they
are. also dont forget, the event ships, also outside of the faction system, also get free
upgrades.
This in my opinion is a cash grab, or increase in revenue/profit. Honestly there was no need for tier 6 ships in my opinion. What was needed was more better content that we could use all the ships we bought. At least we will be getting new content.
I haven't seen anything that says it will be $5 (500 zen) to upgrade a ship, so it could cost up to $10 to upgrade a ship I already paid $25 for. I still am not clear if I have to pay that for every ship in a bundle (ie Scimitar, Falchion, Tulwar) or one unlock is all that's necessary for all three. If it's one per individual ship that's pretty steep as well. Makes the Bortasqu pack seem so bad now if I think about it - $50 for three ships I rarely use that I would have to pay another $15 minimum to bring it up to just under a T6 level. Yeah, there's something wrong with that logic.
And I don't have the time to grind dill to turn to zen - so I am stuck having to use real money if I choose to upgrade. If it's $10 per upgrade, per ship we are talking $30 on top of $50, that's $80 just for the Bortasqu, pack, then there's the Scimi pack, Vesta pack, and the Mogh - that's $100 just on that. If that's not unreasonable, then I am not sure what is.
If the upgrade was to a full T6 and it was 10% of what I paid originally I would be more agreable. However, the omission of the extra boff slot kind of ruins it. The boff powers are very important in determining a ship's power/worth (just look at the poor Gal R).
If someone just bought a $50 pack of ships, I can see how they would be upset their new purchase just became obsolete and if they want to upgrade they have to pay more for the upgrade.
My fear though is that this is a set up for another money grab. The one where Cryptic releases a refit Tier 6 Galaxy R/X bundle, then the Defiant, and Intrepid. Now you are faced with the fact that you paid for it originally, paid for the upgrade and now have to pay again for the new full T6 version.
That seems to me to be the reason they are not fully upgrading the T5's to T6. If that's is even remotely in the cards it's pretty sad.
For those that agree with this upgrade plan, that's your opinion and that's ok. I for one will not be supporting this money grab. I sincerely hope that the majority of the community feels the same way as I do and show Cryptic through reduced revenue that we do not like their plan for T5 upgrades.
Wow, i would actually like that, i wish i could get Keys that way more often..
But Joke aside:
If i buy Item Y and give it to you to get item Z, thats called trade, in that case it isn't free for me (or you)
Example B:
I sell item Y at the exchange, and buy item Z from the exchange for the EC, thats still called trade (and not free for either side).
Actually it is free for one side. You don't buy energy credits with real world currency, you get that in game for most anything, can recycle the junk you get as mission drops for energy credits. So trying to make a comparison between energy credits and zen is ridiculous. Zen you purchase via paypal, credit card, things like that, energy credits you can get by selling the junk item a npc dropped from the last mission you did.
This in my opinion is a cash grab, or increase in revenue/profit. Honestly there was no need for tier 6 ships in my opinion. What was needed was more better content that we could use all the ships we bought. At least we will be getting new content.
I haven't seen anything that says it will be $5 (500 zen) to upgrade a ship, so it could cost up to $10 to upgrade a ship I already paid $25 for. I still am not clear if I have to pay that for every ship in a bundle (ie Scimitar, Falchion, Tulwar) or one unlock is all that's necessary for all three. If it's one per individual ship that's pretty steep as well. Makes the Bortasqu pack seem so bad now if I think about it - $50 for three ships I rarely use that I would have to pay another $15 minimum to bring it up to just under a T6 level. Yeah, there's something wrong with that logic.
And I don't have the time to grind dill to turn to zen - so I am stuck having to use real money if I choose to upgrade. If it's $10 per upgrade, per ship we are talking $30 on top of $50, that's $80 just for the Bortasqu, pack, then there's the Scimi pack, Vesta pack, and the Mogh - that's $100 just on that. If that's not unreasonable, then I am not sure what is.
If the upgrade was to a full T6 and it was 10% of what I paid originally I would be more agreable. However, the omission of the extra boff slot kind of ruins it. The boff powers are very important in determining a ship's power/worth (just look at the poor Gal R).
If someone just bought a $50 pack of ships, I can see how they would be upset their new purchase just became obsolete and if they want to upgrade they have to pay more for the upgrade.
My fear though is that this is a set up for another money grab. The one where Cryptic releases a refit Tier 6 Galaxy R/X bundle, then the Defiant, and Intrepid. Now you are faced with the fact that you paid for it originally, paid for the upgrade and now have to pay again for the new full T6 version.
That seems to me to be the reason they are not fully upgrading the T5's to T6. If that's is even remotely in the cards it's pretty sad.
For those that agree with this more, that's your opinion and that's ok. I for one will not be supporting this money grab. I sincerely hope that the majority of the community feels the same way as I do and show Cryptic through reduced revenue that we do not like their plan for T5 upgrades.
Actually it is free for one side. You don't buy energy credits with real world currency, you get that in game for most anything, can recycle the junk you get as mission drops for energy credits. So trying to make a comparison between energy credits and zen is ridiculous. Zen you purchase via paypal, credit card, things like that, energy credits you can get by selling the junk item a npc dropped from the last mission you did.
In 30 years you (might) be able to buy a good ship that way!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Alright. Rage time...Perfect World, your trying to increase your revenue right? Yeah? I thought so. So why do something that I believe will back fire spectacularly into your faces when you can do something every STO fan will like. You could have just made the current Tier 5 ships able to be upgraded to full Tier 6 and release a new lvl 50 ship line and like I said move up the Tier 5. BUT NO! Your doing something horrible that will not work at all. In a recent dev blog Trendy said there was growing excitement about DR. That's not the excitement, that's anger from all the life timers and people that have spent a lot of money on your soon to be worthless Tier 5 ships. I'm a lifetime sub, and have spent probably hundreds of dollars on the soon to be worthless ships. Even the Federation FLAGSHIP will be worthless!
So Perfect World, you still gonna go on your path that will lead to the quitting of a lot of players of this game?
-or-
Are you going to do as we said, and change a few things?
If you stay on the same path my friend and I (he has spent hundreds on your game too) will probably quit. And I hope that a lot of other people support my message and change your minds.
But then again...your devs. So you think that you know what other people want automatically.
This thread needs more RAGE! :mad::mad::mad:
(This is my opinion.)
For those that agree with this more, that's your opinion and that's ok.
I for one will not be supporting this money grab.
I sincerely hope that the majority of the community feels the same way as I do
and show Cryptic through reduced revenue that we do not like their plan for T5 upgrades.
AND T6 ships altogether.
IF players would boicot the entirety of the new expansion profit plan, they will be forced to find another source of revenue and listen to us:
Upgrade T5 to T6 for a reasonable cost. Then you can realise all new T6 ship types you want.
I still dream from time to time about using the Gateway to doff off-game in spare minutes as we were told
i think part of the deal is they want to move away from the current tier of faction ships
into new modern ships, the upgrade is more of a bone than a neccessity and well if you
want to use your old ship instead of the new breed, its going to cost a little something,
either that or it stays as it is and it will still work but not as good as the guy next to you.
lobi ships are of course a very steady flow of income that they wish to maintain, those
ships exist outside of the faction system, so to speak, so it makes sense to do as they
are. also dont forget, the event ships, also outside of the faction system, also get free
upgrades.
Only one event ship is getting upgraded, the only one that Cryptic made us grind for. The Dyson Science Destroyer. My Obelisk (event one), Oddy Star Cruiser (event one) aren't getting upgrades, even though I spent countless amount of dilithium (bought for by ZEN as well) helping my fleet get a high enough Tier to get access to those ships.
In reference to the lockbox and lobi ships, basically, what you're saying is that Cryptic is perpetually upgrading lockbox ships for free because they want to still have an incentive (not a big one albeit because they aren't Tier 6 ships) to buy Lockboxes so their profit doesn't go down the drain from people not buying keys. I see a flaw in that, because people also pay money for their other ships... That's my beef right now.
Cryptic: You payed money (or someone else) for a lot of keys, here you go, free upgrade.
Fleet Ship Owners: o/ I payed for my ship twice (or $25 for just the fleet ship itself), where's my free upgrade?
Cryptic: Pay $5 or $10 more dollars.
Fleet Ship Owners: *bends over to take it*
Actually it is free for one side. You don't buy energy credits with real world currency, you get that in game for most anything, can recycle the junk you get as mission drops for energy credits. So trying to make a comparison between energy credits and zen is ridiculous. Zen you purchase via paypal, credit card, things like that, energy credits you can get by selling the junk item a npc dropped from the last mission you did.
but time had to put time into an activity to get the ec to buy the goods, it is no different
to real life, an exchange of goods for money, or other good, is bartering. an exchange of
money or goods for work is pay. i cant believe you dont understand this as it is a basic fact
of life.. so im gonna go with troll, or just really busy gnawing on a bone and cant let go.
in the end the whole argument is ridiculous because no one makes anyone open a lock box and we all know it's a huge gamble. Theres still no argument here that justifies why it's fair for people with a lock box or lobi ship to get a free upgrade while people who bought a cash shop one with zen has to pay $5 to $10 more for their's. And really, what is either side getting? a ship that's almost a T6?
Fact is Cryptic knows the pvp crowd is a huge cash cow and that they want every dps point they can scrounge. I seriously doubt their claim that T5 ships will not be replaced by the T6 ones. They want us all to buy a T6, more money for them, so why would a T5 or T5.5 be as good as a T6.
but time had to put time into an activity to get the ec to buy the goods, it is no different
to real life, an exchange of goods for money, or other good, is bartering. an exchange of
money or goods for work is pay. i cant believe you dont understand this as it is a basic fact
of life.. so im gonna go with troll, or just really busy gnawing on a bone and cant let go.
No, I think everyone would agree that the troll here is the one who calls anyone a troll who doesn't agree with you.
I wanted to pop in and answer some common questions that I am seeing. Some I have already answered, but it might be nice to have them all in one place.
Q: Will Fleet Ship Upgrades be account unlock? Or single unlock per character?
A: Fleet Ships Upgrades are account unlocks. However, you must still purchase the Fleet ship to be upgraded on another character. I answered this in an earlier post, but I admit it could have been a little more clear.
Example: You purchase a fleet ship for fleet modules and fleet credits on character A. You then decide to upgrade this ship to T5-U and must pay the upgrade cost. You log onto character B and you want to get the Fleet T5-U ship. Character B will need to spend the fleet modules and fleet credits associated with this ship, but the upgrade to Fleet T5-U will be free.
Q: Will there be a noticeable difference between an upgraded regular T5 ship vs an upgraded T5 Fleet ship?
A: Yes. The difference between a T5 ship and a Fleet T5 ship will be the same as the difference between a T5-U ship and a Fleet T5-U ship. In short, the Fleet T5-U ship will have 10% more hull and shield HP and have +1 console slot over a standard T5-U ship.
Q: Why don't T5-Us get level 5 in Starship Mastery?
A: I think there's a bit of confusion of what these levels actually mean. Levels 1-4 on both T5-Us and T6 ships are the same. They're passive buffs for your ship. They're the same strength as well. So, a +damage buff Starship Mastery ability on a T5-U Escort is the same as a T6 Escort. Level 5 is a starship trait unlock. There is no additional benefit. Since T5-Us don't have a starship trait unlock, they don't need level 5.
Q: Will this upgrade system affect Shuttlecraft in any way?
A: Shuttles will not be upgradeable. They will not be affected by this system at all since Shuttle content is effectively leveless.
Q: Will/can the Ambassador Class Ship included in this upgrade? Either the Aniv Version or the Fleet equivalent?
A: The Support Cruiser Retrofit (earned from completing Temporal Ambassador while the 2013 Anniversary Event was active) is not upgradeable, however the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit is upgradeable to T5-U.
I know many of you still have many burning questions. Some of them we just can't talk about yet as we're still early in development, or we the information will be released in a future blog post. Anyhow, I hope these answers help clear up some confusion.
Best Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Thank you for your continuing answers and participation! There are certainly many questions being asked.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Only one event ship is getting upgraded, the only one that Cryptic made us grind for. The Dyson Science Destroyer. My Obelisk (event one), Oddy Star Cruiser (event one) aren't getting upgrades, even though I spent countless amount of dilithium (bought for by ZEN as well) helping my fleet get a high enough Tier to get access to those ships.
In reference to the lockbox and lobi ships, basically, what you're saying is that Cryptic is perpetually upgrading lockbox ships for free because they want to still have an incentive (not a big one albeit because they aren't Tier 6 ships) to buy Lockboxes so their profit doesn't go down the drain from people not buying keys. I see a flaw in that, because people also pay money for their other ships... That's my beef right now.
Cryptic: You payed money (or someone else) for a lot of keys, here you go, free upgrade.
Fleet Ship Owners: o/ I payed for my ship twice (or $25 for just the fleet ship itself), where's my free upgrade?
Cryptic: Pay $5 or $10 more dollars.
Fleet Ship Owners: *bends over to take it*
the risian ships, breen ships and initial event DSD are getting a free upgrade..
doing 1 mission for a ship is hardly a grind so i guess it doesnt really sit in the
same field as the others lol
Actually it is free for one side. You don't buy energy credits with real world currency, you get that in game for most anything, can recycle the junk you get as mission drops for energy credits. So trying to make a comparison between energy credits and zen is ridiculous. Zen you purchase via paypal, credit card, things like that, energy credits you can get by selling the junk item a npc dropped from the last mission you did.
Well one Player invested at least time and don't tell my Boss that time is worthless, i don't want to work for free!
Please Google "Trade", according to Wiki: Trade is to transfer the ownership of goods from one person or entity to another by getting a product or service in exchange from the buyer...
lobi ships are of course a very steady flow of income that they wish to maintain, those
ships exist outside of the faction system, so to speak, so it makes sense to do as they
are.
In 30 years you (might) be able to buy a good ship that way!
With or without inflation?
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
the risian ships, breen ships and initial event DSD are getting a free upgrade..
doing 1 mission for a ship is hardly a grind so i guess it doesnt really sit in the
same field as the others lol
I totally forgot about those ships... I didn't get my Obelisk from the mission. I payed 2 fleet ship modules and helped my fleet get their Tiers up to get that ship. Same with the Oddy Star Cruiser (except for the ship modules). Not in the same field... I guess Cryptic decides what they will and we're just going to take it, so it doesn't even matter anyway.
lol funny how the argument here is "someone at some time spend money on the game therefore I'm financially invested in the game" How does that work?
Well how does the world work? What makes you give out money? This by far is no charity here, STO team creates a product ("digital ships" etc) and attracts buyers. Investment here really is when you trade money against "future fun times". Now in this case the money has been given/taken (and probably spent or invested elsewhere - hopefully not into the crazy idea that is being discussed in this thread), but it seems the investment is about to go bad, since "fun" will be over soon.
No, I think everyone would agree that the troll here is the one who calls anyone a troll who doesn't agree with you.
its not a matter of agreement.. its a matter of common sense and fact! 3 or 4 people
have replied to your post trying to explain the way the system works regarding in game
transactions for lobi/lockbox ships. there have even been links for you to look at to help
you understand, i just cant believe anyone over the age of 10 isnt able to understand
it, i was calling you a troll in the hopes you were actually messing with us, based on this
i guess you really arnt.. i dont know how to respond or what to say about that..
I totally forgot about those ships... I didn't get my Obelisk from the mission. I payed 2 fleet ship modules and helped my fleet get their Tiers up to get that ship. Same with the Oddy Star Cruiser (except for the ship modules). Not in the same field... I guess Cryptic decides what they will and we're just going to take it, so it doesn't even matter anyway.
Comments
So yes, there is a new Tier of ship coming. You can choose to buy it or not. You can still use your existing ships; and you can even upgrade your existing T5 ship to a T5U for a small fee. You can read about that here: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002133-tier-5-starship-upgrades
Whats wrong with what you just said, lets see, Zen bought with dilithium via the exchange is zen that was bought by a player with real money and then sold by THAT player to others for dilithium. In other words: Regardless of how the zen or zen item made its way into the hands of the player, it was still payed for by real money to Cryptic/PWE.
That's a really dumb argument and here is why, If I buy a master key from the exchange, I'm paying energy credits which is obtainable in game very easy. Your saying yes, so? it was still bought with zen, while that is true, it wasn't my zen that bought it, therefore I got a free master key that didn't cost me real money. Making any since to you? Let me try it this way, I buy X item and give X item to you, does that mean you paid for it? no, it means you received it as a gift and therefore was free to you.
With your argument everyone who buys a Masterkey from the Exchange summons it out of thin air (in a metaphorical sense), sorry, didn't work that way.
No, what I'm saying is if you buy it off the exchange your not paying real money for it, energy credits are not real currency, atleast not here in the US anyway so atleast in this country you would have bought the key using fake in game currency which is easy to obtain.
really, if you want to see what constitutes a really dumb arguement or statement you need
to check out this
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18874161&postcount=1885
it doesnt matter what the final curency used is, the initial transaction was for real money to purchase
the zen, to get the key, to use or sell the key, to open the box, to get the ship or the lobi, to sell
the ship for ec or buy a ship for lobi to sell for ec.. the point is regardless of how you aquire a lobi or
lockbox ship, cryptic have received real money for it.
Definitely my favorite quote of the thread right there!
It's interesting that you take Cryptic at their word. They misled people to sale more Romulan Duty Officer packs by saying that the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be upgraded to "Tier 6 capabilities," clearly to get out of legalities, and many took them at their word. Now we see that the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is T5U... "Tier 6 is not inferior."
/sarcasm on
But they do have one extra thing no other ship does, but obviously not inferior.
/sarcasm off
Like I mentioned before, lockbox ships on par with Fleet ships, upgrade Fleet ships along with Lockbox ones or make everyone pay for a full T6 upgrade to ships.
FYI, I have too many Fleet ships to pay for (again, I might add), I want to roll with my iconic ships (that I payed for) and not be locked in to buying the new T6 ships (which I will undoubtedly buy later) to remain competitive (PvP) and take advantage of the new Lvl 60 T6 Queues...
It's what I said,
the T5 line up of ships holds most of the players' favourite. The T6 line is likely to be disliked, why replace the first with the latter?
They could have saved time and money invested creating those ugly ships by just releasing the T6 mechanich as a paid upgrade for ALL T5 ships.
They would have had their money spending less, and the customers would be happy flying their beloved ships.
Instead they wanted to milk more than we can agree on,
and sell both new T6 ships and an half "upgrade"
that's the third payment for the same ship without it being on par with endgame... Bad move.
Again, complaining, whining, ranting, raging and occasionally flaming in the forums
isn't going to take us any results other than have threads closed and our space to express our opinions locked off.
As long as the cash flow keeps arriving at them, they'll continue in their policies.
If half the people who expressed disagreement with this particular issue went to action and BOICOT T6 SHIPS,
they'll have to change their plan.
Wow, i would actually like that, i wish i could get Keys that way more often..
But Joke aside:
If i buy Item Y and give it to you to get item Z, thats called trade, in that case it isn't free for me (or you)
Example B:
I sell item Y at the exchange, and buy item Z from the exchange for the EC, thats still called trade (and not free for either side).
i think part of the deal is they want to move away from the current tier of faction ships
into new modern ships, the upgrade is more of a bone than a neccessity and well if you
want to use your old ship instead of the new breed, its going to cost a little something,
either that or it stays as it is and it will still work but not as good as the guy next to you.
lobi ships are of course a very steady flow of income that they wish to maintain, those
ships exist outside of the faction system, so to speak, so it makes sense to do as they
are. also dont forget, the event ships, also outside of the faction system, also get free
upgrades.
I haven't seen anything that says it will be $5 (500 zen) to upgrade a ship, so it could cost up to $10 to upgrade a ship I already paid $25 for. I still am not clear if I have to pay that for every ship in a bundle (ie Scimitar, Falchion, Tulwar) or one unlock is all that's necessary for all three. If it's one per individual ship that's pretty steep as well. Makes the Bortasqu pack seem so bad now if I think about it - $50 for three ships I rarely use that I would have to pay another $15 minimum to bring it up to just under a T6 level. Yeah, there's something wrong with that logic.
And I don't have the time to grind dill to turn to zen - so I am stuck having to use real money if I choose to upgrade. If it's $10 per upgrade, per ship we are talking $30 on top of $50, that's $80 just for the Bortasqu, pack, then there's the Scimi pack, Vesta pack, and the Mogh - that's $100 just on that. If that's not unreasonable, then I am not sure what is.
If the upgrade was to a full T6 and it was 10% of what I paid originally I would be more agreable. However, the omission of the extra boff slot kind of ruins it. The boff powers are very important in determining a ship's power/worth (just look at the poor Gal R).
If someone just bought a $50 pack of ships, I can see how they would be upset their new purchase just became obsolete and if they want to upgrade they have to pay more for the upgrade.
My fear though is that this is a set up for another money grab. The one where Cryptic releases a refit Tier 6 Galaxy R/X bundle, then the Defiant, and Intrepid. Now you are faced with the fact that you paid for it originally, paid for the upgrade and now have to pay again for the new full T6 version.
That seems to me to be the reason they are not fully upgrading the T5's to T6. If that's is even remotely in the cards it's pretty sad.
For those that agree with this upgrade plan, that's your opinion and that's ok. I for one will not be supporting this money grab. I sincerely hope that the majority of the community feels the same way as I do and show Cryptic through reduced revenue that we do not like their plan for T5 upgrades.
Actually it is free for one side. You don't buy energy credits with real world currency, you get that in game for most anything, can recycle the junk you get as mission drops for energy credits. So trying to make a comparison between energy credits and zen is ridiculous. Zen you purchase via paypal, credit card, things like that, energy credits you can get by selling the junk item a npc dropped from the last mission you did.
I intended to!
In 30 years you (might) be able to buy a good ship that way!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So Perfect World, you still gonna go on your path that will lead to the quitting of a lot of players of this game?
-or-
Are you going to do as we said, and change a few things?
If you stay on the same path my friend and I (he has spent hundreds on your game too) will probably quit. And I hope that a lot of other people support my message and change your minds.
But then again...your devs. So you think that you know what other people want automatically.
This thread needs more RAGE! :mad::mad::mad:
(This is my opinion.)
AND T6 ships altogether.
IF players would boicot the entirety of the new expansion profit plan, they will be forced to find another source of revenue and listen to us:
Upgrade T5 to T6 for a reasonable cost. Then you can realise all new T6 ship types you want.
Only one event ship is getting upgraded, the only one that Cryptic made us grind for. The Dyson Science Destroyer. My Obelisk (event one), Oddy Star Cruiser (event one) aren't getting upgrades, even though I spent countless amount of dilithium (bought for by ZEN as well) helping my fleet get a high enough Tier to get access to those ships.
In reference to the lockbox and lobi ships, basically, what you're saying is that Cryptic is perpetually upgrading lockbox ships for free because they want to still have an incentive (not a big one albeit because they aren't Tier 6 ships) to buy Lockboxes so their profit doesn't go down the drain from people not buying keys. I see a flaw in that, because people also pay money for their other ships... That's my beef right now.
Cryptic: You payed money (or someone else) for a lot of keys, here you go, free upgrade.
Fleet Ship Owners:
Cryptic: Pay $5 or $10 more dollars.
Fleet Ship Owners: *bends over to take it*
You MUST be joking PWE- You're gonna upgrade my Chel Grett for FREE but charge me $30 to upgrade my Kamarag ?
...And that's AFTER my fleet completes it's tier 5 starbase ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
but time had to put time into an activity to get the ec to buy the goods, it is no different
to real life, an exchange of goods for money, or other good, is bartering. an exchange of
money or goods for work is pay. i cant believe you dont understand this as it is a basic fact
of life.. so im gonna go with troll, or just really busy gnawing on a bone and cant let go.
Fact is Cryptic knows the pvp crowd is a huge cash cow and that they want every dps point they can scrounge. I seriously doubt their claim that T5 ships will not be replaced by the T6 ones. They want us all to buy a T6, more money for them, so why would a T5 or T5.5 be as good as a T6.
No, I think everyone would agree that the troll here is the one who calls anyone a troll who doesn't agree with you.
Thank you for your continuing answers and participation!
Joined January 2009
the risian ships, breen ships and initial event DSD are getting a free upgrade..
doing 1 mission for a ship is hardly a grind so i guess it doesnt really sit in the
same field as the others lol
list of ships -
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
Well one Player invested at least time and don't tell my Boss that time is worthless, i don't want to work for free!
Please Google "Trade", according to Wiki: Trade is to transfer the ownership of goods from one person or entity to another by getting a product or service in exchange from the buyer...
... in one sentence. (The primary reason)
With or without inflation?
I totally forgot about those ships... I didn't get my Obelisk from the mission. I payed 2 fleet ship modules and helped my fleet get their Tiers up to get that ship. Same with the Oddy Star Cruiser (except for the ship modules). Not in the same field... I guess Cryptic decides what they will and we're just going to take it, so it doesn't even matter anyway.
Well how does the world work? What makes you give out money? This by far is no charity here, STO team creates a product ("digital ships" etc) and attracts buyers. Investment here really is when you trade money against "future fun times". Now in this case the money has been given/taken (and probably spent or invested elsewhere - hopefully not into the crazy idea that is being discussed in this thread), but it seems the investment is about to go bad, since "fun" will be over soon.
its not a matter of agreement.. its a matter of common sense and fact! 3 or 4 people
have replied to your post trying to explain the way the system works regarding in game
transactions for lobi/lockbox ships. there have even been links for you to look at to help
you understand, i just cant believe anyone over the age of 10 isnt able to understand
it, i was calling you a troll in the hopes you were actually messing with us, based on this
i guess you really arnt.. i dont know how to respond or what to say about that..
yeah i got stung on my obi that way too