No one forces you to upgrade from your starting Miranda/T'Liss/B'rel either, yet somehow most people do it.
Staying on the cutting edge is a big deal for a lot of people, some of these ships had a lot of time and/or money invested in them, in order to get them as cutting edge as possible. Now those people are finding out that all of that is a dead end.
I think the frustration we are experiencing here is a bit more understandable in that light.
I reviewed the available data and am quite disappointed that half my characters are being told, sorry, your ship isn't good enough.
My Starfleet Captain flies a Assault Cruiser.
I'm doubly annoyed because this is the second time they have been cheated on a ship upgrade (a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit is a completely different vessel to the the Assault Cruiser, therefore, I had no use for it).
My KDF Captain flies a Negh'Var.
Because I do not have access to the Fleet version at this time, it will also be ineligible for upgrades.
I'm hoping the upcoming content does not make T5U ships manditory, otherwise these two captains won't be able to play any of the T5U storyline!
I'm actually giving serious consideration to not playing the DR expansion at all.
It won't take much to make me reject the expansion completely, I'm very close to ignoring it at this point.
This could be a factor pushing me towards that decision.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I'd rather have a reliable and serious game developer pick up the franchise and redo it, this game is seriously outdated and neglected in favour of a complete money grab scheme.
leveling:
i read people upset that we level too fast, thats rediculus, adn insane to think like that. some mmo players in other games would kill to get past it as quickly as possible, most every game is built around end game...so let em cry about getting ahead, they are insane! reminds me of million dollar baby, upset she gave em a house...anyway my point is, its a gift to be able to level fast so plz keep it that way! as a boon for the players when SWTOR added 5 more levels they had a couple weeks of double XP so players could level faster...the players loved the em for it!
overpowered:
i play final fantasy14, you can cross class any class adding powers from each of them and lern any skill and trade in the game combining them all to make it easier to play your role in missions and raids. this is a perk for the other players who dont want nerfing or weakened team mates, they wanna pwn the dungeon not follow a politically correct crawl like a bunch of old croanish women...let the players cry and just deal with having it good, rather then forcing the people with ambition to be bound by underachievers!
Ships:
a variety is always good and what i read about whats coming up sounds promising, so plz dont nerf anything good, give us the power u promised to rebuild what we lost last time. when u guys put something like this together, dont let the buzzkill section try to ruin it for the rest of us, lets see your full hand and earn some awards this year for excellence, i would like to shine on the battle field not bear a walker to stay on good terms with the liberal hipsters
crafting:
u reset all my toons...im not doing it again...especially for chance items. the time it takes to max out is kinda over the top, but i guess your making fun of the players who want to take 10 years to level. i can appreciate humor so no harm no foul :P
Bugs:
please go back over my history of submitted bugs and game messups, im confused how the game can have grown so much and been given patch after patch all these years, and still keep the same errors and glitches...plz fix what ive submitted starting with the taylor one, im used to my toon freezing in place during fights (not server or hardware, he can still pivot at normal speed and env unafected), but i have a ton of outfits and none of them could ever be labeled on any caitian or ferasan
Constitutional CLass:
im not really looking for a super connie just a way to have adventures with one, i can live with using it in foundry. u guys can create missions where we have any ship, console and setup...why not let foundry authors allow for us to use certain crew and ships, even names of them decked out to withstand the maps? it wouldnt affect pvp so no one should have a legitemat reason to hate on this idea. as it stands, the bad part about the T6 is this will finaly squeeze out any hope of using the current connie in any mission....the USS Kittyprize (TOS theme) is an original idea, i would like to continue to have it as an option. i know the big push is for jjverse, but some of us still like to play out this theme, plz be kind to this fan base concerning us, i know the problem with cbs, but it can be worked around and still be given a fair place.
Caitians:
more then likely you have heard of this thread, please give it a fair chance, the caitian is a unique and purchased race, it should be canon and we should be given our moneys worth out of it, you wouldnt deny vulcans pointed ears or andorians their antennas....caitians need their actual hair options. and bare fet, u now have the mesh fro it, u gave it to the gorn from the beginning, plz make it an option for caitina players too, in all reality caitians arent supposed to wear footwear....and dont forget to fix the taylor glitch.
TOS Bridge:
the description when i bought it was acurate and i was very pleased with the purchase, but since the patch the npcs are all wearing the new uniforms on it instead of the TOS ones, please fix this...my bridge is full of people from the future....no a different one!
cheat those who pay real money for ships from c-store but give free upgrades to those who buy keys or ships from exchange. That should be vice versa. Make those who didn't pay for ships, pay, and those who have already paid in c-store, give them free upgrades. But, no point in upgrading c-store or any other ship because of the huge gap they left, being boff, console, trait, mastery slots. This is why i have never brought nothing, and i do mean nothing, from in game, not keys, ships, costumes, nothing, because i knew cryptic would start ripping off players eventually and this just proved my theory. Im not even going to upgrade my FTP ship, stick it where sun dont shine cryptic.
you dont care about players, you just care about who you can bleed money from, and how much you can make
Sorry, but you've probably lost me. "Bells and Whistles" really implies cosmetic or a few minor boosts (~5-10%ish Hull/Shields, a power upgrade, a uni console or innate abilities, etc.). A missing trait, Boff slots and new space abilities are not "Bells and whistles" but significant functionality. At high-level play, you are making T5(U) ships obsolete, and quite frankly I find your claims to the contrary to be dubious based on the information provided; which is exactly what I feared the moment you announced T6.
Bottom line, the T5U as announced should be the free content (or, at a minimum, a lower-priced upgrade in a two-tiered upgrade scheme). If there is no (reasonably priced) option to provide the existing C-store T5 ships with full and balanced T6 Parity (Which I would be OK with paying to upgrade to), then no deal. A missing trait or slightly better stats as a bonus for the new T6 ships are one thing - no access to new BOFF abilities or w/o a full T6 ship is something else entirely - BOFFS are major functionality, not a minor boost like a trait would provide.
I don't mind paying money for new/better content. Not in the least. I do very much mind when i'm given the impression that the money I spend will be a waste because it will be impossible to be end-game viable with those ships.
BTW, I was planning on buying 3-4 more T5 ships for my characters now that I just came back from a bit of a hiatus. That's off until i'm convinced that I won't simply throwing that money away on something that will be instantly obsolete.
Tread carefully gentlemen. There's a fine line between a true value-add and a naked cash-grab masquerading as one. For your sake, I hope you understand where that line is, and which side you should be standing on.
Don't get greedy and kill this game in the process.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
So Tier 6 ships will have 10... that's Ten consoles. So what then of fleet ships?
So will fleet ships gain more bonuses from the upgrade than non-fleet versions?
Good question. Here's the breakdown on Fleet ships. Right now, Fleet Ships offer +1 console slot, +10% Hull HP and +10% Shield HP over a standard T5 ship. If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
The short answer to your question is no. They will have 10% better shield and hull than the non-fleet T5-U variant and have +1 console slot.
The short answer is no, they won't have any added benefits beyond what they have as fleet ships, but they will still get the same upgrade which will make them one console, shield, and hit points better than a T6. I am not sure right now, but that could make a fleet ship upgrade better than a tier 6 ship.
Q: Compared to T6 Ships all upgraded Lockbox ships are now Junk:
One less Mastery Level,
No Starship Trait
No additional Bridge Officer abilities
No Specialist BO Seats
I think you'll find this statement to not be true once Delta Rising goes live. A T5-U Lockbox/Lobi ships is still an incredibly powerful ship even compared to a T6 ship. Also, your first two points are the same thing. The 5th Starship Mastery level is just unlocking the starship trait.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
In summary, most of our T5/U ships are probably not inferior to T6 ships, but certainly different. Our 3 pack ships, lockbox ships, lobi ships, and fleet ships will have hull, hit points, and one console over the initial offerings of T6 ships. Perhaps the question is; Can T6 ships can be upgraded to 11 consoles?
So Tier 6 ships will have 10... that's Ten consoles. So what then of fleet ships?
So will fleet ships gain more bonuses from the upgrade than non-fleet versions?
The short answer is no, they won't have any added benefits beyond what they have as fleet ships, but they will still get the same upgrade which will make them one console, shield, and hit points better than a T6. I am not sure right now, but that could make a fleet ship upgrade better than a tier 6 ship.
Q: Compared to T6 Ships all upgraded Lockbox ships are now Junk:
One less Mastery Level,
No Starship Trait
No additional Bridge Officer abilities
No Specialist BO Seats
Maybe, *maybe* Lockbox ships are ~equal to T6, if the BO slot is ensign level (we can most certainly assume the +1 bo station is higher than ensign) and with T6 Fleetships that is even worse.
So a weak Hull and Shield Modifier and +1 console VS all the shinies? Not worth it. Cryptic take the Lockbox ships and can do a certain profane thing with it.
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
i was letting this stew a bit more and i still dont have a problem with paying to upgrade. yeah it would be nice if the upgrade made it equal but what ever.
personally i think they missed a great way to monetize all this that would not have ticked off so many people.
to add ship modules. much like the kits we have now for the ground. but each tier of ship gets one so a t5 ship would have 5 slots and a t6 would have 6 slots with only that one slot as a difference. but all the ships buy these modules with zen ... so a t6 wont have any different ability over a 5 but just one more of them depending on what the captain likes best. and modules could be lvled also to the captains level meaning i could use my ensign sci module at dahar master if i wanted but a lvl 60 science module would be better.
and we should have to go to a ship yard to equip them also incurring a cost not much but just a little like 500 dil per module to swap them out . keep it cheap enough we dont all cry about it . and in turn it would be used more often and people end up spending more dill without realizing it.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Tread carefully gentlemen. There's a fine line between a true value-add and a naked cash-grab masquerading as one. For your sake, I hope you understand where that line is, and which side you should be standing on.
Don't get greedy and kill this game in the process.
You do realize this is PWE you are talking about, right? Naked cash-grabs are what they do best. Why else are they continuing to sell T5s for 2500 Zen after letting us finally know how obsolete they will be in a little over a month? Or the "Win It Now" button for crafting projects?
Having read through a lot of these postings, I am in agreement with the majority that say they will not pay a second or third time for the same ship. I am not paying 4500 - 9000 Zen to upgrade all the T5s I have just so they can be less inferior.
Can't wait to hear how we are going to get nailed when it comes to ground and space gear :mad:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
ME: You just told us that evey T5 ship we have now including the lockbox and lobi schip is garbage.
CRYPTIC: Why? We said "minus a few bells and whistles" "Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship? A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the game’s story content without requiring the purchase of a starship. Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isn’t designed to require these ships."
ME: Sure and the tooth fairy is real, no you can pack this thing as nice as you want but al ships that are buyable on holodeck are inferieur to the the new ship that are coming with 'Delta Rising' that makes it garbage.
End of conversation.
Sure we must pay 'money' to upgrade our ships we already own, I am used to it by now (I dont think it is right let that be clear). But not make our ship REAL T6 is WRONG very WRONG.
On topic: The good is that almost every T5+ ship is upgradeable and something along the lines of 500 Zen (or a fleet moduleish item type for that cost) is something I expected when I first heard about T5 upgrades. The amount of ships, most dominatnly in most cases the more painful to aquire ones, which get the upgrade for free is also a pleasant surprise (even if its only one of my chars benefitting this).
Now the bad: Cryptic, do you plan to make "Mastery lvl5" and the special Boff skills "lame" on purpose? I mean as I understand we are talking about a additional trait your ship "learns" and 4 to 8 more boff skills (iirc: special boff = 4 special skills + 4 class skills).
Thats a big amount of additional stuff for one ship. If you say T5u can still compare to this you are either trying to make these additional skills almost unusable lame or something went very wrong down the communication line.
I completely understand that people are not happy about the costs involved with upgrading your ship to the new standard. But seriously. You didn't saw this coming? You paid for turning your T5 ship into a T5.5 fleet ship (more hull/shields +1console) but didn't expect to be forced to pay in order to upgrade it to T5-U (again, more hull/shields +1console)? Did you actually think this would happen for free despite the game's history?
When I heard about the new season involving a level cap increase as well as a new Tier of starships it was clear that we would only have 4 options.
1: Buy a Tier 6 starship and forget about your T5s
2: Upgrade your T5s to be competeable and to perform well in the new endgame content
3: Accept that your ship will be inferior but still usefull (as are T5's compared to T5.5s)
4: Well if none of the options above appeal to you I guess the only one left is to quit the game
I'd prefer they adopt the mentality of don't fix something till its broken. Then if something is broken to fix it.
I would actually prefer the T5-XYZ to the T5-U11. I hear the gas mileage is a lot better so you can afford to take the family to risa an extra time each year.
I do find it odd that the heavy bop which for a long time was a really decent ship in the game is now on their table below the poverty line of this new ship money grab lol. Albeit cryptic probally didnt put too much thought into how this would work especially for the KDF being we have so many ships that neither have a c-store nor a fleet ship lol. Much less worry about ever getting Tier 6 ships lol.
If someone really wants to do something funny they should upgrade a bortasqu'. It would be cool if they did a recall on it so no one accidentally thinks of buying that garbage scow again though. Now what would be funny is all those low level KDF ships though that look cool but never got a T5 version if they were upgraded into larger T5 or T6 versions so you could have like more than a few of the side KDF races ships to pick from. There are many instances upgrading could be good but I think they just went about this the wrong way.
ME: You just told us that evey T5 ship we have now including the lockbox and lobi schip is garbage.
You left out the part where they said you can upgrade your 'garbage' for free. All you have to do is press 1 button (that's 1,211 keystrokes less than you used making your post).
I would actually prefer the T5-XYZ to the T5-U11. I hear the gas mileage is a lot better so you can afford to take the family to risa an extra time each year.
There are two types of T5-U upgrades. There are the T5-U upgrades for 9 console T5 ships and the T5-U upgrades for 10 console ships. As each receives an additional console, an easy way to distinguish between the two is to reference them as T5-U10 and T5-U11. Some folks like to go off what was said about the T5 Upgrade and T5 Fleet Upgrade...but outside of that ignoring the Lock Box/Lobi/Event/10 console ZEN boats, there's only so many times I could type T5-U and T5F-U before something got said, eh? I mean, c'mon...lol, that's just wrong. So yeah, I'll stick to T5-U10 and T5-U11 to distinguish the difference of the +1 console, +10% hull, +10% shields that the one T5-U has over the other.
Seriously, though, whence the anger?! Only yesterday I was considering walking, if our T5 ships didn't get some sort of compensatory upgrade-path offered. And today I found out almost ALL my ships get an extra console, extra hitpoints, and can level up with me. And, best of all, all FOR FREE.
So what if there's 1 or 2 older ships that are excluded from the deal!? Like I said elsewhere, sometimes it seems ppl are bent on finding error wuth Cryptic, no matter what.
The basic problem comes down to the new Boff slot and ability sets, where the T6 ships get access to that and the T5U ships do not, basically meaning those who captain them are cut out of the new space upgrade.
The trait issue is less of a problem because as this has read, the trait you get from leveling a T6 ship is universal, so you can use it with any ship. So basically it's possible to still accumulate ship traits and use your old ships if you get T6 ships in addition, and simply run traits from the other ships (which of course takes time playing). The extra level of mastery is simply where you get the specific trait for a ship, so that missing from a T5U ship is simply a matter of those ships not having a slot. This is not a big thing overall.
The problem I have is simply that I really like my main's current ship for example, it's a Voth Bulwark with the full console set. It took quite a bit to get since your dealing with needing a Lobi ship, a Lockbox ship, and a Doff pack ship to kit it out. I do not like being told that I pretty much have to abandon using this ship because if I continue to fly it, I'm going to miss out on having the extra Boff slot and a pick from the new special slot pool of powers.
When it comes to the traits, basically people were going to have to obtain T6 ships and master them to get a selection of traits anyway, which is a cash grab for sure, but I think people have been sort of missing out how that part of things works.
From my perspective, I do not like being told that I have to give up a ship that took that much to get, or lose out on the whole new Boff system. That's been the sum total of my complaints.
I have multiple characters and figured I was going to get a few T6 ships anyway, I play the game a lot, and pay money into it with some frequency so it can make a profit and generate new content (I argue people who play a game should pay money into it frequently). I just do not like being told that my favorite ship is going to be second rate... which is particularly annoying because I'm going into the Delta Quadrant, and a captured Voth Bulwark is very much a Delta Quadrant ship, and conceptually should be as good as anything else out there as The Voth are one of the major powers in The Delta Quadrant.
For the most part I think people who are simply upset about spending money should reconsider their position if they play enough to be this upset. Really upgrading to T6 is just like say when you upgraded from T4 to T5, and potentially left lower ranked Zen ships behind. When it comes to general Zen ships outranking them has always been an issue. However when it comes to character specific, very-special, ships that came from paid gambling and Lobi, I see that as being a little different and I feel those ships should be upgraded to T6 for free. It's not even something that's going to cost Cryptic major amounts of money, since they are character specific as opposed to account-wide. In my case for example as I eventually go back to playing other characters I will probably be paying for upgrades and/or Tier 6 ships over a period of time.
In short I kind of agree with you about some people trying to find fault in anything Cryptic does, and of course a lot of it to me seems like people objecting to paying further into a game that they keep playing for hundreds, or thousands of hours. Given that Cryptic has been developing new content (beyond stuff to sell) obviously some of those profits have been going into giving us new game play. On the other hand I do not think that this entire situation is fair. I think Cryptic needs to further examine these issues and very specific ships need to be handled with extra care. The Bulwark and the Jem'Hadar Attack ship were intentionally set up to be "super prizes" standing out even beyond other prizes and even promoted as such, if anything those ships should receive special consideration (and I say this despite not having a bug ship).
Not that I expect many people (especially Cryptic) to have read my long messages on the subject.
One thing I will also say is that while these games are businesses, I think Cryptic needs to know when to stop pushing and settle into a nice rhythm instead of constantly pushing for more money constantly. I think a lot of the backlash here is because it seems like Cryptic is always promoting some angle and never gives us time off. Not to mention that with new Zen ships like the recent "Patrol Escort" released with it's special real cannon, it's kind of lame to see them rendered obsolete almost as soon as they enter circulation. I mean that and the new Xindi ships are pretty much being made second rate barely after they were released. I don't have either of those, but I admit I'd be raging too if I had bought/chased either of them seriously.
Comments
Staying on the cutting edge is a big deal for a lot of people, some of these ships had a lot of time and/or money invested in them, in order to get them as cutting edge as possible. Now those people are finding out that all of that is a dead end.
I think the frustration we are experiencing here is a bit more understandable in that light.
My Starfleet Captain flies a Assault Cruiser.
I'm doubly annoyed because this is the second time they have been cheated on a ship upgrade (a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit is a completely different vessel to the the Assault Cruiser, therefore, I had no use for it).
My KDF Captain flies a Negh'Var.
Because I do not have access to the Fleet version at this time, it will also be ineligible for upgrades.
I'm hoping the upcoming content does not make T5U ships manditory, otherwise these two captains won't be able to play any of the T5U storyline!
I'm actually giving serious consideration to not playing the DR expansion at all.
It won't take much to make me reject the expansion completely, I'm very close to ignoring it at this point.
This could be a factor pushing me towards that decision.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
and now (and we all know it will be the upper "limit") at least another 1000 Zen to upgrade it.
I would throw in the suggestion that Multi-Ship Packs should get the upgrade for free... or I am going to be VERY disappointed...
It wont cost me a penny, but I look forward to X2.
i read people upset that we level too fast, thats rediculus, adn insane to think like that. some mmo players in other games would kill to get past it as quickly as possible, most every game is built around end game...so let em cry about getting ahead, they are insane! reminds me of million dollar baby, upset she gave em a house...anyway my point is, its a gift to be able to level fast so plz keep it that way! as a boon for the players when SWTOR added 5 more levels they had a couple weeks of double XP so players could level faster...the players loved the em for it!
overpowered:
i play final fantasy14, you can cross class any class adding powers from each of them and lern any skill and trade in the game combining them all to make it easier to play your role in missions and raids. this is a perk for the other players who dont want nerfing or weakened team mates, they wanna pwn the dungeon not follow a politically correct crawl like a bunch of old croanish women...let the players cry and just deal with having it good, rather then forcing the people with ambition to be bound by underachievers!
Ships:
a variety is always good and what i read about whats coming up sounds promising, so plz dont nerf anything good, give us the power u promised to rebuild what we lost last time. when u guys put something like this together, dont let the buzzkill section try to ruin it for the rest of us, lets see your full hand and earn some awards this year for excellence, i would like to shine on the battle field not bear a walker to stay on good terms with the liberal hipsters
crafting:
u reset all my toons...im not doing it again...especially for chance items. the time it takes to max out is kinda over the top, but i guess your making fun of the players who want to take 10 years to level. i can appreciate humor so no harm no foul :P
Bugs:
please go back over my history of submitted bugs and game messups, im confused how the game can have grown so much and been given patch after patch all these years, and still keep the same errors and glitches...plz fix what ive submitted starting with the taylor one, im used to my toon freezing in place during fights (not server or hardware, he can still pivot at normal speed and env unafected), but i have a ton of outfits and none of them could ever be labeled on any caitian or ferasan
Constitutional CLass:
im not really looking for a super connie just a way to have adventures with one, i can live with using it in foundry. u guys can create missions where we have any ship, console and setup...why not let foundry authors allow for us to use certain crew and ships, even names of them decked out to withstand the maps? it wouldnt affect pvp so no one should have a legitemat reason to hate on this idea. as it stands, the bad part about the T6 is this will finaly squeeze out any hope of using the current connie in any mission....the USS Kittyprize (TOS theme) is an original idea, i would like to continue to have it as an option. i know the big push is for jjverse, but some of us still like to play out this theme, plz be kind to this fan base concerning us, i know the problem with cbs, but it can be worked around and still be given a fair place.
Caitians:
more then likely you have heard of this thread, please give it a fair chance, the caitian is a unique and purchased race, it should be canon and we should be given our moneys worth out of it, you wouldnt deny vulcans pointed ears or andorians their antennas....caitians need their actual hair options. and bare fet, u now have the mesh fro it, u gave it to the gorn from the beginning, plz make it an option for caitina players too, in all reality caitians arent supposed to wear footwear....and dont forget to fix the taylor glitch.
TOS Bridge:
the description when i bought it was acurate and i was very pleased with the purchase, but since the patch the npcs are all wearing the new uniforms on it instead of the TOS ones, please fix this...my bridge is full of people from the future....no a different one!
They already said T5U & T6 ships are not mandatory to play the new content.
you dont care about players, you just care about who you can bleed money from, and how much you can make
Bottom line, the T5U as announced should be the free content (or, at a minimum, a lower-priced upgrade in a two-tiered upgrade scheme). If there is no (reasonably priced) option to provide the existing C-store T5 ships with full and balanced T6 Parity (Which I would be OK with paying to upgrade to), then no deal. A missing trait or slightly better stats as a bonus for the new T6 ships are one thing - no access to new BOFF abilities or w/o a full T6 ship is something else entirely - BOFFS are major functionality, not a minor boost like a trait would provide.
I don't mind paying money for new/better content. Not in the least. I do very much mind when i'm given the impression that the money I spend will be a waste because it will be impossible to be end-game viable with those ships.
BTW, I was planning on buying 3-4 more T5 ships for my characters now that I just came back from a bit of a hiatus. That's off until i'm convinced that I won't simply throwing that money away on something that will be instantly obsolete.
Tread carefully gentlemen. There's a fine line between a true value-add and a naked cash-grab masquerading as one. For your sake, I hope you understand where that line is, and which side you should be standing on.
Don't get greedy and kill this game in the process.
So Tier 6 ships will have 10... that's Ten consoles. So what then of fleet ships?
So will fleet ships gain more bonuses from the upgrade than non-fleet versions?
The short answer is no, they won't have any added benefits beyond what they have as fleet ships, but they will still get the same upgrade which will make them one console, shield, and hit points better than a T6. I am not sure right now, but that could make a fleet ship upgrade better than a tier 6 ship.
Q: Compared to T6 Ships all upgraded Lockbox ships are now Junk:
One less Mastery Level,
No Starship Trait
No additional Bridge Officer abilities
No Specialist BO Seats
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18831241&postcount=331
Member since December 2009
Member since December 2009
just a whiskers late for that they got greedy long time ago in a far far away galaxy
Maybe, *maybe* Lockbox ships are ~equal to T6, if the BO slot is ensign level (we can most certainly assume the +1 bo station is higher than ensign) and with T6 Fleetships that is even worse.
So a weak Hull and Shield Modifier and +1 console VS all the shinies? Not worth it. Cryptic take the Lockbox ships and can do a certain profane thing with it.
personally i think they missed a great way to monetize all this that would not have ticked off so many people.
to add ship modules. much like the kits we have now for the ground. but each tier of ship gets one so a t5 ship would have 5 slots and a t6 would have 6 slots with only that one slot as a difference. but all the ships buy these modules with zen ... so a t6 wont have any different ability over a 5 but just one more of them depending on what the captain likes best. and modules could be lvled also to the captains level meaning i could use my ensign sci module at dahar master if i wanted but a lvl 60 science module would be better.
and we should have to go to a ship yard to equip them also incurring a cost not much but just a little like 500 dil per module to swap them out . keep it cheap enough we dont all cry about it . and in turn it would be used more often and people end up spending more dill without realizing it.
So, you devs said everything from the blog would be subject to change due to player feedback?
Prove it:
Have a way to upgrade all t-5 ships to t-6. Yeah, its going to cost us. We'll pay for it either way. Forget the t5-u. t6 or nothing.
You do realize this is PWE you are talking about, right? Naked cash-grabs are what they do best. Why else are they continuing to sell T5s for 2500 Zen after letting us finally know how obsolete they will be in a little over a month? Or the "Win It Now" button for crafting projects?
Having read through a lot of these postings, I am in agreement with the majority that say they will not pay a second or third time for the same ship. I am not paying 4500 - 9000 Zen to upgrade all the T5s I have just so they can be less inferior.
Can't wait to hear how we are going to get nailed when it comes to ground and space gear :mad:
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
they listen to feedback? since when?
What if folks would prefer the T5-U11 to the T6?
ME: You just told us that evey T5 ship we have now including the lockbox and lobi schip is garbage.
CRYPTIC: Why? We said "minus a few bells and whistles" "Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship? A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the game’s story content without requiring the purchase of a starship. Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isn’t designed to require these ships."
ME: Sure and the tooth fairy is real, no you can pack this thing as nice as you want but al ships that are buyable on holodeck are inferieur to the the new ship that are coming with 'Delta Rising' that makes it garbage.
End of conversation.
Sure we must pay 'money' to upgrade our ships we already own, I am used to it by now (I dont think it is right let that be clear). But not make our ship REAL T6 is WRONG very WRONG.
I did the missions from commander to rear admiral in my Commander level ship without significant problems.
Now if your concerns were PvP related or Elite STF's designed while testing with a T6 ships... Now that's something completely different.
On topic: The good is that almost every T5+ ship is upgradeable and something along the lines of 500 Zen (or a fleet moduleish item type for that cost) is something I expected when I first heard about T5 upgrades. The amount of ships, most dominatnly in most cases the more painful to aquire ones, which get the upgrade for free is also a pleasant surprise (even if its only one of my chars benefitting this).
Now the bad: Cryptic, do you plan to make "Mastery lvl5" and the special Boff skills "lame" on purpose? I mean as I understand we are talking about a additional trait your ship "learns" and 4 to 8 more boff skills (iirc: special boff = 4 special skills + 4 class skills).
Thats a big amount of additional stuff for one ship. If you say T5u can still compare to this you are either trying to make these additional skills almost unusable lame or something went very wrong down the communication line.
When I heard about the new season involving a level cap increase as well as a new Tier of starships it was clear that we would only have 4 options.
1: Buy a Tier 6 starship and forget about your T5s
2: Upgrade your T5s to be competeable and to perform well in the new endgame content
3: Accept that your ship will be inferior but still usefull (as are T5's compared to T5.5s)
4: Well if none of the options above appeal to you I guess the only one left is to quit the game
Thank the maker!
If you're one of those MMO jock types who has to have the biggest numbers because reasons, yeah, they'll be garbage. Tough schist.
If you're a casual player, you'll be fine. Your ship will be as strong as you need it to be to faceroll the PVE content just like always. No problem.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I'd prefer they adopt the mentality of don't fix something till its broken. Then if something is broken to fix it.
I would actually prefer the T5-XYZ to the T5-U11. I hear the gas mileage is a lot better so you can afford to take the family to risa an extra time each year.
I do find it odd that the heavy bop which for a long time was a really decent ship in the game is now on their table below the poverty line of this new ship money grab lol. Albeit cryptic probally didnt put too much thought into how this would work especially for the KDF being we have so many ships that neither have a c-store nor a fleet ship lol. Much less worry about ever getting Tier 6 ships lol.
If someone really wants to do something funny they should upgrade a bortasqu'. It would be cool if they did a recall on it so no one accidentally thinks of buying that garbage scow again though. Now what would be funny is all those low level KDF ships though that look cool but never got a T5 version if they were upgraded into larger T5 or T6 versions so you could have like more than a few of the side KDF races ships to pick from. There are many instances upgrading could be good but I think they just went about this the wrong way.
You left out the part where they said you can upgrade your 'garbage' for free. All you have to do is press 1 button (that's 1,211 keystrokes less than you used making your post).
There are two types of T5-U upgrades. There are the T5-U upgrades for 9 console T5 ships and the T5-U upgrades for 10 console ships. As each receives an additional console, an easy way to distinguish between the two is to reference them as T5-U10 and T5-U11. Some folks like to go off what was said about the T5 Upgrade and T5 Fleet Upgrade...but outside of that ignoring the Lock Box/Lobi/Event/10 console ZEN boats, there's only so many times I could type T5-U and T5F-U before something got said, eh? I mean, c'mon...lol, that's just wrong. So yeah, I'll stick to T5-U10 and T5-U11 to distinguish the difference of the +1 console, +10% hull, +10% shields that the one T5-U has over the other.
The basic problem comes down to the new Boff slot and ability sets, where the T6 ships get access to that and the T5U ships do not, basically meaning those who captain them are cut out of the new space upgrade.
The trait issue is less of a problem because as this has read, the trait you get from leveling a T6 ship is universal, so you can use it with any ship. So basically it's possible to still accumulate ship traits and use your old ships if you get T6 ships in addition, and simply run traits from the other ships (which of course takes time playing). The extra level of mastery is simply where you get the specific trait for a ship, so that missing from a T5U ship is simply a matter of those ships not having a slot. This is not a big thing overall.
The problem I have is simply that I really like my main's current ship for example, it's a Voth Bulwark with the full console set. It took quite a bit to get since your dealing with needing a Lobi ship, a Lockbox ship, and a Doff pack ship to kit it out. I do not like being told that I pretty much have to abandon using this ship because if I continue to fly it, I'm going to miss out on having the extra Boff slot and a pick from the new special slot pool of powers.
When it comes to the traits, basically people were going to have to obtain T6 ships and master them to get a selection of traits anyway, which is a cash grab for sure, but I think people have been sort of missing out how that part of things works.
From my perspective, I do not like being told that I have to give up a ship that took that much to get, or lose out on the whole new Boff system. That's been the sum total of my complaints.
I have multiple characters and figured I was going to get a few T6 ships anyway, I play the game a lot, and pay money into it with some frequency so it can make a profit and generate new content (I argue people who play a game should pay money into it frequently). I just do not like being told that my favorite ship is going to be second rate... which is particularly annoying because I'm going into the Delta Quadrant, and a captured Voth Bulwark is very much a Delta Quadrant ship, and conceptually should be as good as anything else out there as The Voth are one of the major powers in The Delta Quadrant.
For the most part I think people who are simply upset about spending money should reconsider their position if they play enough to be this upset. Really upgrading to T6 is just like say when you upgraded from T4 to T5, and potentially left lower ranked Zen ships behind. When it comes to general Zen ships outranking them has always been an issue. However when it comes to character specific, very-special, ships that came from paid gambling and Lobi, I see that as being a little different and I feel those ships should be upgraded to T6 for free. It's not even something that's going to cost Cryptic major amounts of money, since they are character specific as opposed to account-wide. In my case for example as I eventually go back to playing other characters I will probably be paying for upgrades and/or Tier 6 ships over a period of time.
In short I kind of agree with you about some people trying to find fault in anything Cryptic does, and of course a lot of it to me seems like people objecting to paying further into a game that they keep playing for hundreds, or thousands of hours. Given that Cryptic has been developing new content (beyond stuff to sell) obviously some of those profits have been going into giving us new game play. On the other hand I do not think that this entire situation is fair. I think Cryptic needs to further examine these issues and very specific ships need to be handled with extra care. The Bulwark and the Jem'Hadar Attack ship were intentionally set up to be "super prizes" standing out even beyond other prizes and even promoted as such, if anything those ships should receive special consideration (and I say this despite not having a bug ship).
Not that I expect many people (especially Cryptic) to have read my long messages on the subject.
One thing I will also say is that while these games are businesses, I think Cryptic needs to know when to stop pushing and settle into a nice rhythm instead of constantly pushing for more money constantly. I think a lot of the backlash here is because it seems like Cryptic is always promoting some angle and never gives us time off. Not to mention that with new Zen ships like the recent "Patrol Escort" released with it's special real cannon, it's kind of lame to see them rendered obsolete almost as soon as they enter circulation. I mean that and the new Xindi ships are pretty much being made second rate barely after they were released. I don't have either of those, but I admit I'd be raging too if I had bought/chased either of them seriously.