They never said anything about an additional BOFF seat/slot...just an additional BOFF ability/power slot.
Course, they said absolutely nothing about what that means...which is damn infuriating, cause it could mean almost anything.
I mean, literally, they've given us nothing on that..meh. Will it be the same on all ships? Does it vary from ship to ship? Which rank is it? Etc, etc, etc...
Thx. Yeah, guess I wasn't the only one not fully grasping what they meant by that.
An extra console is neat and all for fleet T5-U, but why should I care about extra hull and shields? Unless the difficulty really ramps up in X2 (not expecting that, this is Cryptic after all), my ships already might as well be named the U.S.S. IDDQD.
For my dollar, the scaling hit points doesn't mean diddly squat in PVE. So holding that up as a perk while the 5th mastery, new boff types, and extra boff power is held back, doesn't make me care that much.
No, T5 ships won't be viable. By buffing them 1/4 the way the T6 are buffed from T5 levels you are making t5 ships, the ships, the ships people were building, collecting, gearing up, polishing and almost ******n kissing, underdogs. Underdogs in a heavy, very heavy way.
The truth here is, everybody wants the best ship. There are plenty T5 ships, accumulated over the years, now, everyone can take THE ship that is THE BEST for them, their playstyle, while still it being en par with other T5 ships out there. They're all in same tier, that's the point.
I honestly don't understand this decision Crypitc, you are literally undermining your own work at this point. All of these ships now will fall under one cathegory - underdogs, not-to-use-if-you-have-a-choice cathegory.
The other issue is upgrades with zen. Sorry, but you can't be even asked to mask the fact that it's a cashgrab? In any way? If you ask me, we had enough of "pay-us-moar" going on, especially after new crafting was introduced.
There's another issue, how much money will have to pay people that have multiple ships? These people that already paid for additional ship slots and the ships they have? Do you seriously expect people to roll out their wallets because they want their starships upgraded?
Well, of course you do, but it only shows how little respect you do have for them. For us in fact. Some people don't have a lot of money, and they worked hard by gathering dil, and saving real life cash to get their ships. Now you expect them to pay even more... for an upgrade to a sub-par ship.
I understand company must make money, but take a step back from that view sometimes. Nothing should stop you treating us with some respect for us, and our money, and then nothing will stop us from spending this cash happily, not feeling overmilked like a cow trapped in a gigantic sucking machine.
I seriously hope that reconsider the upgrade system Cryptic. It made a lot of people unhappy. With a good reason, I might add.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The beast at Tanagra.
Kadir beneath Mo Moteh. Kiteo, his eyes closed. Chenza at court, the court of silence. Darmok on the ocean.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
An extra console is neat and all for fleet T5-U, but why should I care about extra hull and shields? Unless the difficulty really ramps up in X2 (not expecting that, this is Cryptic after all), my ships already might as well be named the U.S.S. IDDQD.
For my dollar, the scaling hit points doesn't mean diddly squat in PVE. So holding that up as a perk while the 5th mastery, new boff types, and extra boff power is held back, doesn't make me care that much.
The 5th Mastery isn't really being held back though...since it's the Starship Trait. Sure, perhaps it's being held hostage...you buy a T6 ship of the same category as the T5-U ship you want to fly to unlock the trait and then go back to the T5-U ship with it...so yeah, perhaps being held hostage, eh? You can secure its release by purchasing the T6 ship. Or...you take a look at what that Starship Trait is and just go with one of the other Starship Traits that will be available without the need to get a T6 boat.
First off, I have absolutely no problem paying zen for upgrades.
But this T5 U is utter bull****.
Why not upgrading ships to t6 instead?
Why upgrading to a ship lvl which is clearly underperforming compared to the new t6 ships?
Fact is that everybody who used to buy one of the large ship packs (oddy, vesta, bortasqu, scimiatar) has had to pay at least 5000 Zen already?
Now they have to pay Zen again to upgrade to T5 U... lets say 500 Zen... 1000 Zen for each ship (3 times of course since there are apparently 3 ships in each pack) and what they get is still worse then a newly introduced T6 ship that costs maybe 2500 Zen (just a guess since this is a standard price on c-store)?
Like i said... I have no problem paying Zen in order to get upgrades... but:
5000 Zen for a ship pack + X Zen for an upgrade and we are still not able to compete in any situation (PVE + PVP) with the new T6 ships?
WTF?
Cryptic, are you kidding me?
Ive have spent +15000 zen on Top-Tier ships so far just to be told now that after the Season 10 release all these ships cant compete with what you are newly introducing?
Even with the upgrades the old ships wont be as powerful as the t6 ships.
This T5U is nothing than a major hoax. A new way pulling money out of the players pockets. Thats it.
A T6 upgrade would have been fair to the old players... the introduction of T6 fleet variants would have been an option.
But T5U is a major fraud.
What about Veteran ships?
The veteran ships were compared to most other T5 ships already underperforming so far.
Now the performance gap between the Veteran ships and the T6 ships is even getting bigger (yes veterans... the ppl which keep this game running by paying real money).
The veteran ships where one of the very few useful benefits for being a veteran and keeping the game server running.
Whats now? One reason to become a Veteran less?
So how big will the performance difference be between T5U and T6?
- one starship matery level less for T5U
- no starship trait for T5U
- no additional boff ability for T5U
- no specialist boff seats for T5U
To me that easily sounds like 10-15% performance differences between T5U and T6. (remember how the devs wanted to make us believe how powerful traits can be and that they have to be limited at all costs when they released season 9?). And there are boff abilities in the game which alone can easily increase the DPS or resistance of a ship by more than 10%.
A T5U upgraded ship can never compete with a T6 ship in PVP (unless the T6 ship is a totally TRIBBLE build) and as result ppl sooner or later will stop using T5 ships.
They will buy the T6 ship from the C-store instead of a T5 version.
Wow Cryptic I feel like getting shot right in the heart from you. I mean 4 Years I like the game buying every ship loving my Defiant put more and more money in the game to get a high Fleet Base for the Fleet ships and the Lockbox/Lobi Ships and then...
Only one Blog is needed to say that all the time and money for the old ships are wasted. Yeah I can upgrade them great but for someone like me who try to get even the last little bit of performance out of his ship the T5-U ships are just big TRIBBLE.
And not only that my old beloved Ships are TRIBBLE with Delta Rising noooo I have to pay again for making them TRIBBLE T5-U Yay awesome *sarcasm*. I feel like I was robbed.
I mean then not even have the additional BO seat? Thats just wrong.
I really really hope you change your plans and make the T5-U ships better.
Or you just throw the Ship plans into the trash can and make a new system. I prefer you can choose any ship you want and upgrade it to a fully T6.
I Mean I'm an Admiral and as Riker says as an Admiral I can Choose my Ship. So I want to choose every ship I want not to choose between a TRIBBLE version of my beloved old Ship and a new perhaps not very pleased new Ship with much more power.
they must be having a laugh at how they are upsetting lots of people they knew ages ago they were going to put in t6 ships, but bring in dyson destroyers, mogh and avenger and other types of ships knowing too well they were going to shaft people when they relese t6 no shame in them doing so either
Cant imagine they are laughing considering with this news known i seriously doubt ANYONE is going to be buying new ships. Ive still have been wanting to pick up the Dyson pack and the Scimitar pack but with this news no way in he** im going to spend the money on them now. Might as well just save it up cause im sure theres going to be some kind of T6 ship pack with this new expansion. All in all its just less money for them. Instead of me buying two 50 dollar packs and T6 ships, just not going to bother with the T5 stuff.
T5 lockbox/lobi should be free upgrades to full T6 (minus "specialist" maybe as we don't know what that really is)
-Players spent real money to get these ships on a lottery basis (it was random on if you got a ship and getting lobi in a random (minimum 4) amount)
-Also we spent money on keys to get the lockbox gear MK XII which won't be upgraded either, so if we wanted to get the same weapon types (for example) that we like to use we need to repurchase keys/lockboxes in an attempt to get Mk XIV gear, and then what happens if we get a ship that can't be T6 in that lottery? We probably won't rejoice.
T5 Fleet Ships should be a fleet module or two to upgrade to full T6 (minus "specialist" maybe as we don't know what that really is)
-Players either spent money on buying the lower tier ship and fleet modules to get these or just 4-5 fleet modules for the T5 version.
I can understand that the company wants to generate revenue, but there is nothing wrong with having a few ships with the same bridge officer/console layout but just have a cool new design. Or even adding in different ship skins for the existing ones.
I am not going to "quit" over this, but might drop down to only playing 1-2 toons if things are going to be this way..
The 5th Mastery isn't really being held back though...since it's the Starship Trait. Sure, perhaps it's being held hostage...you buy a T6 ship of the same category as the T5-U ship you want to fly to unlock the trait and then go back to the T5-U ship with it...so yeah, perhaps being held hostage, eh? You can secure its release by purchasing the T6 ship. Or...you take a look at what that Starship Trait is and just go with one of the other Starship Traits that will be available without the need to get a T6 boat.
Oh so this is rich... your solution is... pay an huge price in zen to simply get a trait and level up a ship that you then won't use because you have to go back and pay even more zen to upgrade the t5 ship you purchased 6 months ago when they released the Dyson, only to discover that the a) you need to grind up the levels for that ship and b) by the time you do that the inevitable Cryptic power creep has kicked in and the word "competative" means "drain on your team mates but you can do it if you dont' care about them at all."
Oh so this is rich... your solution is... pay an huge price in zen to simply get a trait and level up a ship that you then won't use because you have to go back and pay even more zen to upgrade the t5 ship you purchased 6 months ago when they released the Dyson, only to discover that the a) you need to grind up the levels for that ship and b) by the time you do that the inevitable Cryptic power creep has kicked in and the word "competative" means "drain on your team mates but you can do it if you dont' care about them at all."
nice.
My solution? Where did I say it was my solution? And...where did I say just a single thing there?
The issue was raised of the L5 Mastery/Starship Trait being unavailable on a T5-U ship. I simply corrected that, by stating that it's more along the lines of it being held hostage than it not being available. If you want to call that "my solution"...well, you've got issues that these forums aren't the place to address.
I also pointed out that T6 ships are not the only source of Starship Traits, so it may be a case that one might not care about the L5 Mastery/Starship Trait if there's something else they'd prefer to slot in one of their four Starship Trait slots.
There's way too much AGK going on in this thread and folks not bothering to read...Hell, I had to apologize to somebody earlier because I misread what they said, so I get it...but all the same, there's way too much AGK in this thread.
The 5th Mastery isn't really being held back though...since it's the Starship Trait. Sure, perhaps it's being held hostage...you buy a T6 ship of the same category as the T5-U ship you want to fly to unlock the trait and then go back to the T5-U ship with it...so yeah, perhaps being held hostage, eh? You can secure its release by purchasing the T6 ship. Or...you take a look at what that Starship Trait is and just go with one of the other Starship Traits that will be available without the need to get a T6 boat.
I get that. I guess what I'm really saying is, if they expect me to open my wallet to pay for my ship a third time (C-Store, fleet, T5-U), I want the full monty. I want the ship I saw on my TV screen. It doesn't have to be the best of the best of the best, but I want all the toppings if they expect more money from me for it.
Heck, my Gal-X would be four times paid for for cryin out loud. Venture skin, Gal-X, Fleet, T5-U, and it still doesn't have all the shinies? I'll pass.
Sure, on some ships an extra console is comparable to another ensign boff ability, depends on the ship really. But all that means is that rather than becoming obsolete now, our ships will become obsolete in a few months to a year when they inevitably introduce tier 6.5 and give them that extra console that is the only thing making our tier 5-U ships at all competitive. That's assuming the extra boff ability is ensign or lt. rank in the first place, if it's lt. commander or commander rank then a single console is never going to be good enough.
I get that. I guess what I'm really saying is, if they expect me to open my wallet to pay for my ship a third time (C-Store, fleet, T5-U), I want the full monty. I want the ship I saw on my TV screen. It doesn't have to be the best of the best of the best, but I want all the toppings if they expect more money from me for it.
Heck, my Gal-X would be four times paid for for cryin out loud. Venture skin, Gal-X, Fleet, T5-U, and it still doesn't have all the shinies? I'll pass.
Yeah, it's getting expensive to play the way folks want to - not necessarily the way they need to, but the way they want to...and Cryptic is monetizing the Hell out of that while still saying it's a F2P game where you don't have to spend a dime...meh. I gave up on flying what I wanted to fly and just started flying whatever...no doubt that means I probably won't end up sticking around as long as I might have otherwise (though I'm kind of addicted even with all the Farmville/MtG TRIBBLE)...
Personally though, they haven't sold me on the T6 ships...figure that will happen with next week's blogs and then I'll be taking some Excedrin for the /facepalm on how quickly things will have changed on the comparison between a T5-U11 and a T6 ship. Don't know...have no faith - have little hope - just kind of plodding along...
I am fed up with all this grinding. I am fed up with everything costing an arm and a leg. Are cryptic trying to make all their long time players leave?
I'm tired of getting screwed with my pants on by cryptic and perfect world. This game has no customer support, filing a in-game ticket is a joke, and bugs are not fixed.
I have no interest in giving them any more money.
In fact I want my money back. My account is worth at least $1000, I want it back.
I have been sitting here thinking about this, I have a solution Cryptic...
You want us all to pay for ship upgrades, clearly that is your desire. I will do so, if you make it a true upgrade. T6 Ships. Period. No T5-U TRIBBLE. We get upgraded to be on par completely with the T6 ships that are coming out. The way I see it is that if we spend another $5 on a ship we have already spent $25-$30 dollars on, then we are spending in at least as much on that ship as you would have us spend on a T6 ship. They SHOULD be equal.
Lobi/Lockbox/Specialty Ships should auto upgrade as promised, but it too should be straight to T6, there should be no T-5U at all. It is a waste of our time and your time to promote it as such.
T-5U is a failure, either retrofit to T-6, or don't bother us with it at all...
Upgrade Effect
I think Tier 5U and Tier 6 ships should have the same number of BO powers, with no more variation than current Tier 5 ships have.
Bridge Officer powers are the most important determinator in the overall power level of a ship. Bad BO combinations can make things work, but havning less BO powers is almost always a drawback.
I think it would be better to not give the Tier 5 ships an extra console slot and more hit points than Tier 6 ships, then to force them to give up on a BO slot.
Upgrade System
I forsee that the system will be arcane/byzantine/cryptic to many players.
You have a base ship. Then you may have or may not have an upgraded refit version that you can buy in the C-Store.
You may also have Tier 5 retrofit, that you buy via the C-Store.
You may also have a Tier 5 fleet retrofit, that you need a fleet module from the C-Store or the Exchange for-.
And then you can upgrade the latter two to a Tier 5U ship? But these upgrades end up being different ships, and you only unlock that version?
Consider that many new players will level a character up and at Level 51, they suddenly will see the option to upgrade their ship. They may naively do that. Then they at some point get to Level 60, decide t join a fleet to do endgame content, and then suddenly realize that there is a fleet version of their ship, but if they unlock that, it's a downgrade first compared to the Tier 5U version, and they have to upgrade that again, too.
And you of course have all these different tier 5+ subversions of the same ship.
Look at something like the Heavy Cruiser.
Heavy Cruiser (Tier 3 ship)
Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Tier 5 ship, Fleet Credits only)
Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Fleet Modules Version)
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit Tier 6 Upgrade (Upgrade Ship of the Fleet Version)
This sounds excessively and needlessly complicated. You need to simply this considerably, and avoid that people waste money on purchases for ships they will eventually throw away if they had just mastered the correct upgrade path.
Unless you actually hope on people wasting their money on false purchases (and I think you're better than that), this seems too confusing.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Upgrade System
I forsee that the system will be arcane/byzantine/cryptic to many players.
You have a base ship. Then you may have or may not have an upgraded refit version that you can buy in the C-Store.
You may also have Tier 5 retrofit, that you buy via the C-Store.
You may also have a Tier 5 fleet retrofit, that you need a fleet module from the C-Store or the Exchange for-.
And then you can upgrade the latter two to a Tier 5U ship? But these upgrades end up being different ships, and you only unlock that version?
Consider that many new players will level a character up and at Level 51, they suddenly will see the option to upgrade their ship. They may naively do that. Then they at some point get to Level 60, decide t join a fleet to do endgame content, and then suddenly realize that there is a fleet version of their ship, but if they unlock that, it's a downgrade first compared to the Tier 5U version, and they have to upgrade that again, too.
And you of course have all these different subversions of the same ship you will end up having.
Look at something like the Heavy Cruiser.
Heavy Cruiser (Tier 3 ship)
Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Tier 5 ship, Fleet Credits only)
Mirror Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Tier 5 Ship, Lockbox only, Dead End)
Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Fleet Modules Version)
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit Tier 6 Upgrade (Upgrade Ship of the Fleet Version)
This sounds excessively and needlessly complicated. You need to simply this considerably, and avoid that people waste money on purchases for ships they will eventually throw away if they had just mastered the correct upgrade path.
Unless you actually hope on people wasting their money on false purchases (and I think you're better than that), this seems too confusing.
It seems better to me if you simplified the Tier 6 upgrade as this:
There is a Tier 6 version of ships, ships with various Tier 5 variants get one final Tier 6 Upgrade version, even if you start from a different base. The Tier 6 version should combine the Tier 6 and Fleet benefits in whatever way seems balanced and compatible with the previous versions (If you really don't want to give an additional BO slot, give an extra Universal Slot - especially important for the ships that have Mirror variants)
All Tier 5 classified ships get the upgrade to a Tier 6 version of the ship, the cost varies depending on what ship you are starting from. Example:
Mirror Ships and the Fleet Credit ships costs 1,500 Zen and require a Fleet Starbase of the appropriate Tier (because they include the Fleet Retrofit upgrade implicitely)
C-Store Retrofits cost 1,000 Zen. (Maybe you also want to have the Fleet Starbase requirements, but I would recommend to have at least one type of ship that doesn't require a Fleet - one type other than lobi/lockbox)
Fleet Retrofits cost 500 Zen
Lobi and Lockbox ships get a free upgrade.
Upgrade Effect
I think Tier 5U and Tier 6 ships should have the same number of BO powers, with no more variation than current Tier 5 ships have.
Bridge Officer powers are the most important determinator in the overall power level of a ship. Bad BO combinations can make things worse, but having less BO powers is almost always a drawback.
I think it would be better to not give the Tier 5 ships an extra console slot and more hit points than Tier 6 ships, then to force them to give up on a BO slot.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I have been sitting here thinking about this, I have a solution Cryptic...
You want us all to pay for ship upgrades, clearly that is your desire. I will do so, if you make it a true upgrade. T6 Ships. Period. No T5-U TRIBBLE. We get upgraded to be on par completely with the T6 ships that are coming out. The way I see it is that if we spend another $5 on a ship we have already spent $25-$30 dollars on, then we are spending in at least as much on that ship as you would have us spend on a T6 ship. They SHOULD be equal.
Lobi/Lockbox/Specialty Ships should auto upgrade as promised, but it too should be straight to T6, there should be no T-5U at all. It is a waste of our time and your time to promote it as such.
T-5U is a failure, either retrofit to T-6, or don't bother us with it at all...
I have been sitting here thinking about this, I have a solution Cryptic...
You want us all to pay for ship upgrades, clearly that is your desire. I will do so, if you make it a true upgrade. T6 Ships. Period. No T5-U TRIBBLE. We get upgraded to be on par completely with the T6 ships that are coming out. The way I see it is that if we spend another $5 on a ship we have already spent $25-$30 dollars on, then we are spending in at least as much on that ship as you would have us spend on a T6 ship. They SHOULD be equal.
Lobi/Lockbox/Specialty Ships should auto upgrade as promised, but it too should be straight to T6, there should be no T-5U at all. It is a waste of our time and your time to promote it as such.
T-5U is a failure, either retrofit to T-6, or don't bother us with it at all...
Couldnt agree more.
Got a cat? Have 10 minutes to help someone make the best degree dissertation of all time?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
not true... they have said not every tier 6 will get them. I'm guessing it means it's an ensign slot just for the new boff. I think more would break the ui.
As I understand it there, are two things regarding BOs:
1) There is a new type of BO that can have two different power sets. (However that works). Some of the new Tier 6 ships will have access to using these BOs, but not all ships will have that, and definitely no Tier 5 upgrades.
2) There will be an extra BO power slot on the new ships. Whether that means an additiaon BO seat, the upgrade of a Lt.Cmdr to Cmdr, or Cmdr to Captain, we have no idea.
I think not having 1 may be okay. You still have the same number of powers (though we know from t he Galaxy Retrofit threads that same number of powers isn't always sufficient, if the powers you can slot are weak or collide with cooldowns, they cna be weaker, but that seems more a balance problem of the powers, not the ships, IMO) than before. But not having 2.. Very problematic.
The few ships that pay such a cost are Klingon Raiders. And they seem currently not very popular anymore, completely surpassed by Romulan ships with battle cloak. But I could maybe be persuaded that an extra universal slot could help.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I have been sitting here thinking about this, I have a solution Cryptic...
You want us all to pay for ship upgrades, clearly that is your desire. I will do so, if you make it a true upgrade. T6 Ships. Period. No T5-U TRIBBLE. We get upgraded to be on par completely with the T6 ships that are coming out. The way I see it is that if we spend another $5 on a ship we have already spent $25-$30 dollars on, then we are spending in at least as much on that ship as you would have us spend on a T6 ship. They SHOULD be equal.
Lobi/Lockbox/Specialty Ships should auto upgrade as promised, but it too should be straight to T6, there should be no T-5U at all. It is a waste of our time and your time to promote it as such.
T-5U is a failure, either retrofit to T-6, or don't bother us with it at all...
Indeed. Here's a simple idea to PWE. Leave the ships alone! Stop trying to gauge more money and just make Upgrading FREE. Because I don't think were going to get anything like 5/5 Cruiser with 12 consoles as a T6 ship. Actually, just scrap the whole T6 BS and make the upgraded T5 the final step.
While i appreciate that the new expansion should bring with it a new level to play at, how fair the difference is between T5U and T6 ships is will remain to be seen when you release more details about the features that only T6 ships will have. If it turns out the T6 features missing from a T5U ship are significant, then i am sorry but that will just mean the T5U changes are merely a lip service to stop an outright ****storm.
If they are minor then its not too shabby at all. Though as some have mentioned, the zen upgrade for some of the ships they have already paid once, twice or even three times for is a bit shady Cryptic. Can you just try and have some empathy instead of greed from time to time though? I have some issues with the upgrade system.
I mean even now some of the C-store practices are a bit underhand. For example, buying a kar'fi carrier in the c-store does not entitle you to a 1 FSM upgrade for the fleet version. Same for several other Klingon ships. I hope you don't try and weave in a repeat of this anywhere within the myriad of upgrading options in the expansion.
$5-10 per ship is a bit steep, if you consider some people may own a lot of ships. For example, I have one captain from each faction, all with a lot of ships. (though my Nausicaan has far less due to the stupid c-store upgrade reasons i mentioned above).
In total i would say i have around 15 ships that will require an upgrade to be current when Delta drops. I have probably less Captains than average, but maybe slightly more ships as i have a lot of ships that qualify for free upgrades.
So you really expect people to pay $75-150 when an expansion comes out in order to use things they already paid substantial money for? You need to be a bit down to Earth with this. In other MMO's, expansions cost anything from $20 - 40. If you throw in a few F2P features maybe 80 dollars. But in your game, i could pay the equivalent of that just to use my old **** and keep it current, before i even start thinking about buying the undoubted myriad of stuff that will be teasing us all at launch?
Come on guys.
If you have designed the whole thing to make people steer more towards buying the new stuff then fine, i get that. I understand you need to make as much money as you can from this expansion to justify the development as a F2P game. But just have some empathy for people that don't have so much disposable income. I don't include myself in that bracket but it doesn't stop me from understanding their position.
Other than that, TAKE MY MONEY!
EDIT: Possible idea to make the costs cheaper, use some kind of upgrade token. That doesn't cost $5-10, more like $2.5-5. Then put the tokens in the store, and possible token packs etc etc. People can argue that the proposed pricing is reasonable but it simply isn't when people already paid far more for previous stuff than they would in any other game before an expansion. Stop letting them off the hook. I'm happy to pay big zen for all shiny new ships with bells and whistles, but paying for stuff i already paid for leaves a bad taste in my mouth and smacks of greed.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
What?
First of all why are you listing the fleet ship modules for everything? Noone ever said that they are part of the upgrading system. I think gorngonzolla even comfirmed that they are not.
Another thing is that mirror ships will not be able to get the upgrade and all lobi ships will get it for free.
Comments
Thx. Yeah, guess I wasn't the only one not fully grasping what they meant by that.
New dev blog, please!
For my dollar, the scaling hit points doesn't mean diddly squat in PVE. So holding that up as a perk while the 5th mastery, new boff types, and extra boff power is held back, doesn't make me care that much.
No, T5 ships won't be viable. By buffing them 1/4 the way the T6 are buffed from T5 levels you are making t5 ships, the ships, the ships people were building, collecting, gearing up, polishing and almost ******n kissing, underdogs. Underdogs in a heavy, very heavy way.
The truth here is, everybody wants the best ship. There are plenty T5 ships, accumulated over the years, now, everyone can take THE ship that is THE BEST for them, their playstyle, while still it being en par with other T5 ships out there. They're all in same tier, that's the point.
I honestly don't understand this decision Crypitc, you are literally undermining your own work at this point. All of these ships now will fall under one cathegory - underdogs, not-to-use-if-you-have-a-choice cathegory.
The other issue is upgrades with zen. Sorry, but you can't be even asked to mask the fact that it's a cashgrab? In any way? If you ask me, we had enough of "pay-us-moar" going on, especially after new crafting was introduced.
There's another issue, how much money will have to pay people that have multiple ships? These people that already paid for additional ship slots and the ships they have? Do you seriously expect people to roll out their wallets because they want their starships upgraded?
Well, of course you do, but it only shows how little respect you do have for them. For us in fact. Some people don't have a lot of money, and they worked hard by gathering dil, and saving real life cash to get their ships. Now you expect them to pay even more... for an upgrade to a sub-par ship.
I understand company must make money, but take a step back from that view sometimes. Nothing should stop you treating us with some respect for us, and our money, and then nothing will stop us from spending this cash happily, not feeling overmilked like a cow trapped in a gigantic sucking machine.
I seriously hope that reconsider the upgrade system Cryptic. It made a lot of people unhappy. With a good reason, I might add.
Kadir beneath Mo Moteh. Kiteo, his eyes closed. Chenza at court, the court of silence. Darmok on the ocean.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
The 5th Mastery isn't really being held back though...since it's the Starship Trait. Sure, perhaps it's being held hostage...you buy a T6 ship of the same category as the T5-U ship you want to fly to unlock the trait and then go back to the T5-U ship with it...so yeah, perhaps being held hostage, eh? You can secure its release by purchasing the T6 ship. Or...you take a look at what that Starship Trait is and just go with one of the other Starship Traits that will be available without the need to get a T6 boat.
But they'd make tons of money by charging us for full upgrades to T6. They really would.
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
But this T5 U is utter bull****.
Why not upgrading ships to t6 instead?
Why upgrading to a ship lvl which is clearly underperforming compared to the new t6 ships?
Fact is that everybody who used to buy one of the large ship packs (oddy, vesta, bortasqu, scimiatar) has had to pay at least 5000 Zen already?
Now they have to pay Zen again to upgrade to T5 U... lets say 500 Zen... 1000 Zen for each ship (3 times of course since there are apparently 3 ships in each pack) and what they get is still worse then a newly introduced T6 ship that costs maybe 2500 Zen (just a guess since this is a standard price on c-store)?
Like i said... I have no problem paying Zen in order to get upgrades... but:
5000 Zen for a ship pack + X Zen for an upgrade and we are still not able to compete in any situation (PVE + PVP) with the new T6 ships?
WTF?
Cryptic, are you kidding me?
Ive have spent +15000 zen on Top-Tier ships so far just to be told now that after the Season 10 release all these ships cant compete with what you are newly introducing?
Even with the upgrades the old ships wont be as powerful as the t6 ships.
This T5U is nothing than a major hoax. A new way pulling money out of the players pockets. Thats it.
A T6 upgrade would have been fair to the old players... the introduction of T6 fleet variants would have been an option.
But T5U is a major fraud.
What about Veteran ships?
The veteran ships were compared to most other T5 ships already underperforming so far.
Now the performance gap between the Veteran ships and the T6 ships is even getting bigger (yes veterans... the ppl which keep this game running by paying real money).
The veteran ships where one of the very few useful benefits for being a veteran and keeping the game server running.
Whats now? One reason to become a Veteran less?
So how big will the performance difference be between T5U and T6?
- one starship matery level less for T5U
- no starship trait for T5U
- no additional boff ability for T5U
- no specialist boff seats for T5U
To me that easily sounds like 10-15% performance differences between T5U and T6. (remember how the devs wanted to make us believe how powerful traits can be and that they have to be limited at all costs when they released season 9?). And there are boff abilities in the game which alone can easily increase the DPS or resistance of a ship by more than 10%.
A T5U upgraded ship can never compete with a T6 ship in PVP (unless the T6 ship is a totally TRIBBLE build) and as result ppl sooner or later will stop using T5 ships.
They will buy the T6 ship from the C-store instead of a T5 version.
Only one Blog is needed to say that all the time and money for the old ships are wasted. Yeah I can upgrade them great but for someone like me who try to get even the last little bit of performance out of his ship the T5-U ships are just big TRIBBLE.
And not only that my old beloved Ships are TRIBBLE with Delta Rising noooo I have to pay again for making them TRIBBLE T5-U Yay awesome *sarcasm*. I feel like I was robbed.
I mean then not even have the additional BO seat? Thats just wrong.
I really really hope you change your plans and make the T5-U ships better.
Or you just throw the Ship plans into the trash can and make a new system. I prefer you can choose any ship you want and upgrade it to a fully T6.
I Mean I'm an Admiral and as Riker says as an Admiral I can Choose my Ship. So I want to choose every ship I want not to choose between a TRIBBLE version of my beloved old Ship and a new perhaps not very pleased new Ship with much more power.
And yeah, I agree to your statement. (Though I think they just forgot the Ha'apax on the list)
Also kinda sad that a fleet ship which already is kinda pay twice is now pay thrice.
People who bought the DYSON bundle will absolutely love this list...
Cant imagine they are laughing considering with this news known i seriously doubt ANYONE is going to be buying new ships. Ive still have been wanting to pick up the Dyson pack and the Scimitar pack but with this news no way in he** im going to spend the money on them now. Might as well just save it up cause im sure theres going to be some kind of T6 ship pack with this new expansion. All in all its just less money for them. Instead of me buying two 50 dollar packs and T6 ships, just not going to bother with the T5 stuff.
T5 lockbox/lobi should be free upgrades to full T6 (minus "specialist" maybe as we don't know what that really is)
-Players spent real money to get these ships on a lottery basis (it was random on if you got a ship and getting lobi in a random (minimum 4) amount)
-Also we spent money on keys to get the lockbox gear MK XII which won't be upgraded either, so if we wanted to get the same weapon types (for example) that we like to use we need to repurchase keys/lockboxes in an attempt to get Mk XIV gear, and then what happens if we get a ship that can't be T6 in that lottery? We probably won't rejoice.
T5 Fleet Ships should be a fleet module or two to upgrade to full T6 (minus "specialist" maybe as we don't know what that really is)
-Players either spent money on buying the lower tier ship and fleet modules to get these or just 4-5 fleet modules for the T5 version.
I can understand that the company wants to generate revenue, but there is nothing wrong with having a few ships with the same bridge officer/console layout but just have a cool new design. Or even adding in different ship skins for the existing ones.
I am not going to "quit" over this, but might drop down to only playing 1-2 toons if things are going to be this way..
Oh so this is rich... your solution is... pay an huge price in zen to simply get a trait and level up a ship that you then won't use because you have to go back and pay even more zen to upgrade the t5 ship you purchased 6 months ago when they released the Dyson, only to discover that the a) you need to grind up the levels for that ship and b) by the time you do that the inevitable Cryptic power creep has kicked in and the word "competative" means "drain on your team mates but you can do it if you dont' care about them at all."
nice.
My solution? Where did I say it was my solution? And...where did I say just a single thing there?
The issue was raised of the L5 Mastery/Starship Trait being unavailable on a T5-U ship. I simply corrected that, by stating that it's more along the lines of it being held hostage than it not being available. If you want to call that "my solution"...well, you've got issues that these forums aren't the place to address.
I also pointed out that T6 ships are not the only source of Starship Traits, so it may be a case that one might not care about the L5 Mastery/Starship Trait if there's something else they'd prefer to slot in one of their four Starship Trait slots.
There's way too much AGK going on in this thread and folks not bothering to read...Hell, I had to apologize to somebody earlier because I misread what they said, so I get it...but all the same, there's way too much AGK in this thread.
I get that. I guess what I'm really saying is, if they expect me to open my wallet to pay for my ship a third time (C-Store, fleet, T5-U), I want the full monty. I want the ship I saw on my TV screen. It doesn't have to be the best of the best of the best, but I want all the toppings if they expect more money from me for it.
Heck, my Gal-X would be four times paid for for cryin out loud. Venture skin, Gal-X, Fleet, T5-U, and it still doesn't have all the shinies? I'll pass.
Yeah, it's getting expensive to play the way folks want to - not necessarily the way they need to, but the way they want to...and Cryptic is monetizing the Hell out of that while still saying it's a F2P game where you don't have to spend a dime...meh. I gave up on flying what I wanted to fly and just started flying whatever...no doubt that means I probably won't end up sticking around as long as I might have otherwise (though I'm kind of addicted even with all the Farmville/MtG TRIBBLE)...
Personally though, they haven't sold me on the T6 ships...figure that will happen with next week's blogs and then I'll be taking some Excedrin for the /facepalm on how quickly things will have changed on the comparison between a T5-U11 and a T6 ship. Don't know...have no faith - have little hope - just kind of plodding along...
I'm tired of getting screwed with my pants on by cryptic and perfect world. This game has no customer support, filing a in-game ticket is a joke, and bugs are not fixed.
I have no interest in giving them any more money.
In fact I want my money back. My account is worth at least $1000, I want it back.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
"Back on topic. Destinii is correct."
(Formerly Destinii until the 'Great PWE Forum Shakeup of 2012')
You want us all to pay for ship upgrades, clearly that is your desire. I will do so, if you make it a true upgrade. T6 Ships. Period. No T5-U TRIBBLE. We get upgraded to be on par completely with the T6 ships that are coming out. The way I see it is that if we spend another $5 on a ship we have already spent $25-$30 dollars on, then we are spending in at least as much on that ship as you would have us spend on a T6 ship. They SHOULD be equal.
Lobi/Lockbox/Specialty Ships should auto upgrade as promised, but it too should be straight to T6, there should be no T-5U at all. It is a waste of our time and your time to promote it as such.
T-5U is a failure, either retrofit to T-6, or don't bother us with it at all...
I think Tier 5U and Tier 6 ships should have the same number of BO powers, with no more variation than current Tier 5 ships have.
Bridge Officer powers are the most important determinator in the overall power level of a ship. Bad BO combinations can make things work, but havning less BO powers is almost always a drawback.
I think it would be better to not give the Tier 5 ships an extra console slot and more hit points than Tier 6 ships, then to force them to give up on a BO slot.
Upgrade System
I forsee that the system will be arcane/byzantine/cryptic to many players.
You have a base ship. Then you may have or may not have an upgraded refit version that you can buy in the C-Store.
You may also have Tier 5 retrofit, that you buy via the C-Store.
You may also have a Tier 5 fleet retrofit, that you need a fleet module from the C-Store or the Exchange for-.
And then you can upgrade the latter two to a Tier 5U ship? But these upgrades end up being different ships, and you only unlock that version?
Consider that many new players will level a character up and at Level 51, they suddenly will see the option to upgrade their ship. They may naively do that. Then they at some point get to Level 60, decide t join a fleet to do endgame content, and then suddenly realize that there is a fleet version of their ship, but if they unlock that, it's a downgrade first compared to the Tier 5U version, and they have to upgrade that again, too.
And you of course have all these different tier 5+ subversions of the same ship.
Look at something like the Heavy Cruiser.
Or the Tactical Escort
This sounds excessively and needlessly complicated. You need to simply this considerably, and avoid that people waste money on purchases for ships they will eventually throw away if they had just mastered the correct upgrade path.
Unless you actually hope on people wasting their money on false purchases (and I think you're better than that), this seems too confusing.
I forsee that the system will be arcane/byzantine/cryptic to many players.
You have a base ship. Then you may have or may not have an upgraded refit version that you can buy in the C-Store.
You may also have Tier 5 retrofit, that you buy via the C-Store.
You may also have a Tier 5 fleet retrofit, that you need a fleet module from the C-Store or the Exchange for-.
And then you can upgrade the latter two to a Tier 5U ship? But these upgrades end up being different ships, and you only unlock that version?
Consider that many new players will level a character up and at Level 51, they suddenly will see the option to upgrade their ship. They may naively do that. Then they at some point get to Level 60, decide t join a fleet to do endgame content, and then suddenly realize that there is a fleet version of their ship, but if they unlock that, it's a downgrade first compared to the Tier 5U version, and they have to upgrade that again, too.
And you of course have all these different subversions of the same ship you will end up having.
Look at something like the Heavy Cruiser.
Or the Tactical Escort
This sounds excessively and needlessly complicated. You need to simply this considerably, and avoid that people waste money on purchases for ships they will eventually throw away if they had just mastered the correct upgrade path.
Unless you actually hope on people wasting their money on false purchases (and I think you're better than that), this seems too confusing.
It seems better to me if you simplified the Tier 6 upgrade as this:
Upgrade Effect
I think Tier 5U and Tier 6 ships should have the same number of BO powers, with no more variation than current Tier 5 ships have.
Bridge Officer powers are the most important determinator in the overall power level of a ship. Bad BO combinations can make things worse, but having less BO powers is almost always a drawback.
I think it would be better to not give the Tier 5 ships an extra console slot and more hit points than Tier 6 ships, then to force them to give up on a BO slot.
what he said
Couldnt agree more.
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
As I understand it there, are two things regarding BOs:
1) There is a new type of BO that can have two different power sets. (However that works). Some of the new Tier 6 ships will have access to using these BOs, but not all ships will have that, and definitely no Tier 5 upgrades.
2) There will be an extra BO power slot on the new ships. Whether that means an additiaon BO seat, the upgrade of a Lt.Cmdr to Cmdr, or Cmdr to Captain, we have no idea.
I think not having 1 may be okay. You still have the same number of powers (though we know from t he Galaxy Retrofit threads that same number of powers isn't always sufficient, if the powers you can slot are weak or collide with cooldowns, they cna be weaker, but that seems more a balance problem of the powers, not the ships, IMO) than before. But not having 2.. Very problematic.
The few ships that pay such a cost are Klingon Raiders. And they seem currently not very popular anymore, completely surpassed by Romulan ships with battle cloak. But I could maybe be persuaded that an extra universal slot could help.
I agree as well.
Indeed. Here's a simple idea to PWE. Leave the ships alone! Stop trying to gauge more money and just make Upgrading FREE. Because I don't think were going to get anything like 5/5 Cruiser with 12 consoles as a T6 ship. Actually, just scrap the whole T6 BS and make the upgraded T5 the final step.
While i appreciate that the new expansion should bring with it a new level to play at, how fair the difference is between T5U and T6 ships is will remain to be seen when you release more details about the features that only T6 ships will have. If it turns out the T6 features missing from a T5U ship are significant, then i am sorry but that will just mean the T5U changes are merely a lip service to stop an outright ****storm.
If they are minor then its not too shabby at all. Though as some have mentioned, the zen upgrade for some of the ships they have already paid once, twice or even three times for is a bit shady Cryptic. Can you just try and have some empathy instead of greed from time to time though? I have some issues with the upgrade system.
I mean even now some of the C-store practices are a bit underhand. For example, buying a kar'fi carrier in the c-store does not entitle you to a 1 FSM upgrade for the fleet version. Same for several other Klingon ships. I hope you don't try and weave in a repeat of this anywhere within the myriad of upgrading options in the expansion.
$5-10 per ship is a bit steep, if you consider some people may own a lot of ships. For example, I have one captain from each faction, all with a lot of ships. (though my Nausicaan has far less due to the stupid c-store upgrade reasons i mentioned above).
In total i would say i have around 15 ships that will require an upgrade to be current when Delta drops. I have probably less Captains than average, but maybe slightly more ships as i have a lot of ships that qualify for free upgrades.
So you really expect people to pay $75-150 when an expansion comes out in order to use things they already paid substantial money for? You need to be a bit down to Earth with this. In other MMO's, expansions cost anything from $20 - 40. If you throw in a few F2P features maybe 80 dollars. But in your game, i could pay the equivalent of that just to use my old **** and keep it current, before i even start thinking about buying the undoubted myriad of stuff that will be teasing us all at launch?
Come on guys.
If you have designed the whole thing to make people steer more towards buying the new stuff then fine, i get that. I understand you need to make as much money as you can from this expansion to justify the development as a F2P game. But just have some empathy for people that don't have so much disposable income. I don't include myself in that bracket but it doesn't stop me from understanding their position.
Other than that, TAKE MY MONEY!
EDIT: Possible idea to make the costs cheaper, use some kind of upgrade token. That doesn't cost $5-10, more like $2.5-5. Then put the tokens in the store, and possible token packs etc etc. People can argue that the proposed pricing is reasonable but it simply isn't when people already paid far more for previous stuff than they would in any other game before an expansion. Stop letting them off the hook. I'm happy to pay big zen for all shiny new ships with bells and whistles, but paying for stuff i already paid for leaves a bad taste in my mouth and smacks of greed.
First of all why are you listing the fleet ship modules for everything? Noone ever said that they are part of the upgrading system. I think gorngonzolla even comfirmed that they are not.
Another thing is that mirror ships will not be able to get the upgrade and all lobi ships will get it for free.