You know that since there is only a very small fraction of the players that PvP and listening to the posts on the Forums they have/are leaving in droves, why would you care if there is a bit of a difference between your beloved T5(U) and a Tier 6. The other thing none of us know about is the overall benefits of the new Boff slot, new Boff types, and the 5th Ship Trait slot. We don't know what they are and if they are even remotely going to be OP.
How many of the Reputation 5th 'Active' abilities were OP?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If only there was a way to not use real money in this game to get Zen...damn oh well.
Actually there is a way to not use real money in this game to get Zen, doing surveys and watching videos that give zen as well. So there are ways. Also the Dilithium-Zen Exchange that almost everyone is talking about.
Paying for an upgrade that makes your old stuff equal to new stuff is one thing, paying to have your old stuff not quite equal to new stuff is something else altogether. If I have to pay to get my lockbox or fleet ships on T6 level, fine. Having to pay to end up with something that is still inferior, why should I even bother? The stuff I have is outdone, I don't see any point in paying to be slightlly less outdone.
Your mentioning of Fleet ships is a good example of what I meant, I didn't mind paying for Fleet ships, since they where fully equivalent to all other fleet ships (minus the Norgh..). However, I did not have to pay for an upgrade to my C-Store ships that ended up being not really Fleet level.
I am a little bit confused by the next part of your post though, you're acting like every other MMO with a subscription model out there has paid expansions, which is simply not true. Yes there are MMO's with paid expansions, and there are MMO's with just a subscription fee as well. I don't really see how you can just disregard the fact that he is LTS by claiming he would have been paying for an expansion anyway. Then you go on mentioning that some other company's do worse, which is true. Other companies do better, say Guild Wars 2. That is all rather irrelevant though, I'm dealing with this company and not one that does better or worse, so it's neither here nor there what other companies do.
To be clear, I do not mind paying for an expansion, nor for an upgrade. I mind paying for an upgrade that leaves me where I was before the upgrade, namely less good then full tier 6. If you think differently about that that's fine and your right, but don't shove me aside as feeling "entitled" because I expect to get my moneys worth out of an upgrade. Hell, if the upgrade to full T6 would be 10$-15$ instead of 5$-10$, fine.
Back to the thread in general, I see a lot of F2P Stockholm syndrome in this thread, which is hardly surprising. I don't really care anymore, all good things come to an end, this just makes it easier to step away from it all. It's been fun while it lasted, although no season ever was more then season 6 for me, it's been a (mostly) good ride till now.
I wish all those who are still enjoying themselves a blast with the next expansion, have fun!
I agree. I should go to sleep, since I'm not raging at Cryptic but at certain posters who post from under the bridge.
Yeah, Cryptic could make the T5 upgrade a bit more powerful, but they did much worse before, and they can always give a little more bonuses for the upgrade.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Paying for an upgrade that makes your old stuff equal to new stuff is one thing, paying to have your old stuff not quite equal to new stuff is something else altogether. If I have to pay to get my lockbox or fleet ships on T6 level, fine. Having to pay to end up with something that is still inferior, why should I even bother? The stuff I have is outdone, I don't see any point in paying to be slightlly less outdone.
As it stands though, one can't say across the board that T6 is better than T5-U11.
Your mentioning of Fleet ships is a good example of what I meant, I didn't mind paying for Fleet ships, since they where fully equivalent to all other fleet ships (minus the Norgh..). However, I did not have to pay for an upgrade to my C-Store ships that ended up being not really Fleet level.
ZEN pricing is kind of goofy...we've got both 9 console and 10 console 2500 ZEN ships. The 10 console 2500 ZEN ships are supposed to be on Fleet level. But not everything Fleet level is equal even ignoring those non-fleet 10 console ZEN ships.
I am a little bit confused by the next part of your post though, you're acting like every other MMO with a subscription model out there has paid expansions, which is simply not true. Yes there are MMO's with paid expansions, and there are MMO's with just a subscription fee as well. I don't really see how you can just disregard the fact that he is LTS by claiming he would have been paying for an expansion anyway. Then you go on mentioning that some other company's do worse, which is true. Other companies do better, say Guild Wars 2. That is all rather irrelevant though, I'm dealing with this company and not one that does better or worse, so it's neither here nor there what other companies do.
Was just an example of potential cost...not a blanket statement on the industry. My apologies if it came off that way.
Regarding what LTS gets, they get what they pay for...it's not a case of disregarding in it in the least. LTS doesn't guarantee you certain things, so Cryptic hasn't broken any guarantee by not providing certain things.
To be clear, I do not mind paying for an expansion, nor for an upgrade. I mind paying for an upgrade that leaves me where I was before the upgrade, namely less good then full tier 6. If you think differently about that that's fine and your right, but don't shove me aside as feeling "entitled" because I expect to get my moneys worth out of an upgrade. Hell, if the upgrade to full T6 would be 10$-15$ instead of 5$-10$, fine.
Again, that information hasn't been provided - and even then - it would have to be made on a case by case/build by build basis.
And people like you TRIBBLE me off thinking that $5 is a drop of a bucket!
Because I for one am NOT happy, in having to spend OVER THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO UPGRADE EVERY SHIP I OWN FOR EVERY CHARACTER I PLAY! Even if I GRINDED it out, it would take me 3 years of grinding to pay for it!
You have lost nothing. Cryptic did not state that their T5 ships will be top of the line forever. You have not been lied to or mislead in any way, shape or form, other than by your own assumptions.
The game has moved on.
Keep up or be left behind.
Also, I find your "thousands of dollars to upgrade all my characters" an exaggeration, and an irritating one at that. Cryptic has stated that the unlocks will be account-wide.
And people like you TRIBBLE me off thinking that $5 is a drop of a bucket!
Because I for one am NOT happy, in having to spend OVER THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO UPGRADE EVERY SHIP I OWN FOR EVERY CHARACTER I PLAY! Even if I GRINDED it out, it would take me 3 years of grinding to pay for it!
Thousands of dollars What?? there are not even that many ships to upgrade to reach $500
It's been stated that unless you plan on spending time doing what will be the future PvE queued events (those only accessible at Level 60), or possibly PvP, There is going to be no need to upgrade just to do the delta quadrant storyline.
The problem with this statement is that the level 60 content will become the new end-game content, and the content the playerbase will be doing once enough players reach the new level cap. This is much the same way as STFs are now...players who have reached lvl 50 do not spend their time playing lvl 40 missions and content except as a distraction or to get some reward item they missed.
Thus, if the end content at lvl 60 will be based on the players having T6 ships, then T6 is what becomes the new standard to be used. In this case, T5 become similar to T4 ships currently in the game. Players who bring a T4 Galaxy cruiser to an Elite STF, for instance, face serious issues in handling the content because it is engineered to challenge T5 ships.
Another thing that is driving me nuts with this thread is that people are still considering the Tier 5.9 ships (how I actually feel about them since they aren't going to be 100% tier 6) as being inferior at the end because they don't have an extra boff slot. Come on, this is about the same level as people complaining about the Gal-X not being a true Dreadnought.
Well, I think by definition, the T5.9 ships -have- to be inferior due to the lost BOFF slot, or the converse is that the extra BOFF slot is not useful. If it is useful and the T6 ships do not sacrifice an equivalent amount of abilities in Console seating or shield mods (which it seems they will not, based on the comments we have seen describing them as having 'extras'), then it is something the T5.9 ship lacks, and hence the T5.9 is inferior. The only way the T5.9 would not be inferior would be if it offered different but equal advantages over the T6 ship to compensate for the extra BOFF power and traits it will not have.
Further, you will note they did increase the Gal-X to the levels of other Dreadnaughts, a fairly conclusive proof that the devs agreed that the Gal-X -was not- a true Dreadnaught before they upgraded her.
Think about this, if Upgraded Tier 5 ships get the special boff seat and the trait from the ship mastery, there would be no point in buying the Tier 6 ships, since the former things are part of the gimmick that makes them worth selling. Just as C-store ships have some console that makes them worth purchasing.
Why do people buy T4 Z-store ships? Why to they buy T5 Z-store ships that aren't mega-powerful ship-of-the-month? Because each ship offers something that the others do not, and it is that something that makes people want to purchase it. A person who buys the Galaxy-Retrofit knows it isn't going to dominate the battlezone, but it is a -Galaxy-Retrofit-, and provides both a certain BOFF seating and the classic lines of an iconic ship. And so the ship still sells, even though it doesn't have the 'gimick' to make it worth selling.
The T6 ships would be no different. People would want to buy the T6 for their own special qualities, so it isn't necessary for them to have any special traits above T5 ships for them to be desirable for purchase unless the ship itself is so lacking in any other design traits that it -needs- a gimmick to drive it's sales. If so, that smacks of an inferior ship that needs a crutch to stand with.
Consider this. If the new ships are interesting to look at, feature new Bridges, and offer new styling, the ships will sell just as the Avengers sell next to the Excelsiors. Each ship has it's own qualities, but neither obsoletes the other. Players who prefer what the Excelsior offers will buy that ship, and those who like what the Avenger offers will buy that one. There is no need to obsolete one to sell the other.
There is one more thing I wanted to say before I'm done. There is a point to them offering lockbox, lobi, grind and veteran ships a free Upgrade. Cryptic probably figures that people spent a lot of money in order to obtain these ships. Except for the Veteran ships, every other ship that can be obtained by both silver and gold players has some serious value to them. They wanted to save people any more money so they gave them free upgrades. For the rest, it'll cost some zen. Just my two cents on this.
I do find it interesting that the Mirror ships, all of which are also Lockbox ships (players had to spend Zen to get them, and had them dropped into their hands with the same effort it took to get other Lockbox ships...it was just luck of the draw which one they got), yet every single one is excluded from the same considerations as other Lockbox ships.
The last thing I will say here is that I hope the Devs' statement that no one will be required to upgrade or have a T6 ship to play the lvl 60 content isn't in the same spirit as saying that no one is required to use a T5+ ship to play in an Elite STF. While technically true, that isn't the same as saying that the person who brings a Miranda class T1 Light Cruiser into that STF should expect to be able to complete the STF without undue trouble. Do they mean that un-upgraded T5 ships should be just as able to complete all lvl 60 content as the T6 ships, or did they mean that people can take T5 ships into lvl 60 content, but it's their own fault if they fail for not taking a T6 ship into that content?
It's more valid than you are giving the OP credit for. Right now people can buy inferior ships. T1, T2, T3 and T4 ships.
And as you can see the sales figures for those are low. Even with the consoles that they come with, they sell less than the latest greatest more powerful new top tier ships.
So the OP makes a valid point. You'll see it in action with the release of more and more T6 ships.
For me it's had a full on impact. I feel the model is too cash intensive for me. I'm gone. I feel like I wasted money on the game, because of how this is being done. But I'm in the minority. For the majority though, you're going to see a dip in sales of the T5 ships and fleet modules.
How is that any different than what happens with most items on the C-Store? Tier 6 ships will just be the new shinies on the C-Store like when they first introduced the Tier 5.5 Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid ships and when they first introduced the Rhode Island and other P2W console ships.
Now the old shinies are hardly ever purchased any more and in a year or two, the Tier 6 ships launched with DR will hardly ever be purchased any more. It is the way things are in every MMO with a microtransaction system. If Tier 6 ships were never introduced, then some Tier 5.5 ship would make the other items in the C-Store less attractive. Old shinies always give way to new shinies assuming that the new shinies are of similar quality.
LIEK OH MY GOSH GUISE WE'LL LOSE OUT THEIR SOOPER COOL GIMMICK.
I never mentioned PvP at all, you may realize.
Yeah I guess you'll be left in the dust with PvP. Didn't one of the devs specify that the T5U ships will actually have a superior layout in exchange for losing out the gimmick? Better modifiers, another console slot?
Considering you/they have the Vet ships, which have been confirmed to be getting upgraded... why not just use the Vet ships for PvP?
because they didn't want to. One has worked hard to get his Galaxy X just they way he likes it, the other is Excel refit to be a beast. now all that work is thrown out the window. We expected the difference between T5 and T6 to be like fleet and t5. in truth it's soundlike like t3 vs t5 and the non upgradable ships. T2.5 vs T5. They was a big TRIBBLE you to the fanbase, especially with that awful T6 fed cruiser. My fleet has many star trek game modders and all of them HATE that ship.
because they didn't want to. One has worked hard to get his Galaxy X just they way he likes it, the other is Excel refit to be a beast. now all that work is thrown out the window. We expected the difference between T5 and T6 to be like fleet and t5. in truth it's soundlike like t3 vs t5 and the non upgradable ships. T2.5 vs T5. They was a big TRIBBLE you to the fanbase, especially with that awful T6 fed cruiser. My fleet has many star trek game modders and all of them HATE that ship.
T5-U11 (cause it's important to keep in mind there are both T5-U10s and T5-U11s)...
+1 console
+10% hull
+10% shields
T6...
+1 unknown ranked BOFF ability (could be Lt, LCdr, or maybe even Cmdr - we don't know yet).
Hybrid BOFF seat (conflict with standard BOFF abilities in having to select those or Specialist BOFF abilities).
Ability to unlock a Starship Trait (a trait that can be used on a T5-U ship after being unlocked) that we have no information on.
How is that any different than what happens with most items on the C-Store? Tier 6 ships will just be the new shinies on the C-Store like when they first introduced the Tier 5.5 Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid ships and when they first introduced the Rhode Island and other P2W console ships.
Now the old shinies are hardly ever purchased any more and in a year or two, the Tier 6 ships launched with DR will hardly ever be purchased any more. It is the way things are in every MMO with a microtransaction system. If Tier 6 ships were never introduced, then some Tier 5.5 ship would make the other items in the C-Store less attractive. Old shinies always give way to new shinies assuming that the new shinies are of similar quality.
sshhh, whiner don't like reasoning. it interferes with the ranting.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Wow misinformation Everywhere on these Forums, and i blame Cryptic for it because they really need to make things more clearer for our slower player base , with all theses let's wait and give information little by little, and while they do that so much more misinformation floods the forums that you can't tell anymore whats fact, or not.
Forget that nine weapon stuff don't even mention it...that would be OP.
Now that extra Boff can cause some serious issues. Is this an ensign station, if so probably not a huge issue but if the Boff station has an extra Lt. Commander or Lieutenant this might be the nail on the T5U ship coffin.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Boof abilites can make all the difference. My fleet does challenge matches to test our builds and the right ability at the right time can either save you or give you the killing blow.
You have lost nothing. Cryptic did not state that their T5 ships will be top of the line forever. You have not been lied to or mislead in any way, shape or form, other than by your own assumptions.
The game has moved on.
Keep up or be left behind.
Also, I find your "thousands of dollars to upgrade all my characters" an exaggeration, and an irritating one at that. Cryptic has stated that the unlocks will be account-wide.
Did I SAY THEY WOULD LAST FOREVER? NO!
This isn't Everquest or SWG, where you are constantly upgrading your gear! Ships are your AVATAR, and costs $20 per ship!
Boof abilites can make all the difference. My fleet does challenge matches to test our builds and the right ability at the right time can either save you or give you the killing blow.
We don't even know what that new Boff is and already people say they can't live without it:eek:
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,559Community Moderator
edited August 2014
We still don't know the stats of the known T6 ships, let alone what T6 ships will be available at launch.
That's really not Cryptic's problem, now is it? Cryptic provided you with a free ship upgrade. You declined to use it. Your prerogative. Your loss.
Personally, as a non-PvPer and as someone who's never used the Gal-X, I find using the Gal-X in PvP as absurd. The Gal-X is an outdated ship that, even with the buff Cryptic gave it a few months ago, has not aged well at all. It may have been a dreadnought at launch, but it's outstripped by superior ships now.
But hey - you're a big girl/boy/whichever is applicable. Your ship, your choice, your life. Have at it.
I do find it interesting that the Mirror ships, all of which are also Lockbox ships (players had to spend Zen to get them, and had them dropped into their hands with the same effort it took to get other Lockbox ships...it was just luck of the draw which one they got), yet every single one is excluded from the same considerations as other Lockbox ships.
This is sort of like a double-fisted bird-flip at the players.
For many, this is the only way to get T5 Retrofits on many of the lower level ships, because the only other way is to have a MK I-II-III-IV-V dock on a Fleet Starbase.
So for solo players, they are pretty much screwed. What other way can they get an upgrade on their ship, other than to beg their way into a guild for the sole purpose of getting the Fleet version of their ship, or they pay their way into a guild, since that seems to be the new moneymaker for guilds, selling memberships for dock access.
Just another of the MANY reasons Cryptic wont see another dime from me. I am done with their schemes and their attitude towards the players.
I have a lifetime sub. I can't get that money back. But I can certainly sit on the servers, use up space and resources, without spending another dime! :cool:
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
It's a nice gesture but Cryptic has stated time and time again that they don't listen to the forums or the players. That was likely just put there as a courtesy.
Listening to the players and following what the players want are two very different things. Considering some of the suggestions that players have made over the years, I am glad that the devs don't always do what the players wants. Also there is is too many conflicting suggestions that players make that it gives the impression that we don't know what we want.
The last thing I will say here is that I hope the Devs' statement that no one will be required to upgrade or have a T6 ship to play the lvl 60 content isn't in the same spirit as saying that no one is required to use a T5+ ship to play in an Elite STF. While technically true, that isn't the same as saying that the person who brings a Miranda class T1 Light Cruiser into that STF should expect to be able to complete the STF without undue trouble. Do they mean that un-upgraded T5 ships should be just as able to complete all lvl 60 content as the T6 ships, or did they mean that people can take T5 ships into lvl 60 content, but it's their own fault if they fail for not taking a T6 ship into that content?
We will have to see.
They said:
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
I would look at it like Hive Onslaught Elite vs ISE.
Notice there's not even a requirement for an UPGRADED T5 Ship...
Also... What about regular vs Fleet? Do we have to upgrade a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit seperately from an Assault Cruiser Refit?
If, for some baffling reason, you actually wanted to have both an Assault Cruiser Refit, and a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit, then those would be separate upgrades (although you would only need to pay for each upgrade once and then all other characters could get their ACR or FACR upgrade for free).
I guess if you only wanted to splurge on the Fleet version on a single/main character instead of all characters that could make sense.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
There are legitimate thoughts to be given here about the T5Us. I'll reiterate that I think they need the 13th boff ability to truly reach any semblance of competitiveness with the T6 ships.
That said, it's harder to make this case when we yell and scream at each other.
totally agree. opinions are fine but there really is no need to start getting personal, although
i do appreciate with some people that can be difficult. but lets be honest, at the moment we
have next to no information, we can speculate all we want, which is cool beans, but until
we have some specific data, speculate is all we can do, in terms of relative differences from
T5 through to T6. it would be a real shame to go to war with each other over this non-specific
information we have at present.
Actually there is a way to not use real money in this game to get Zen, doing surveys and watching videos that give zen as well. So there are ways. Also the Dilithium-Zen Exchange that almost everyone is talking about.
The "Excitement around Delta Rising" blogpost said:
Developing starships takes a lot of dev effort, so Delta Rising is going to include between 7 and 10 new Tier 6 ships at launch, spanning all three factions.
Doing the math, I'd doubt there'll be enough to fill the four slots.
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. It’s something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
...holds true and we can fill those 4 Starship Trait slots using other methods. Otherwise the typically imbalanced ship offerings would just add one more reason to wield farm implements. :P
Thanks again virusdancer for tipping me off about Geko's post there.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Boof abilites can make all the difference. My fleet does challenge matches to test our builds and the right ability at the right time can either save you or give you the killing blow.
Can...is a key word there. For certain builds/concepts, having an Ensign at Lieutenant might have more value than an additional console, more hull, and more shields. One has to keep in mind that the +10% hull and +10% shields are base...
Like the example they gave in the blog of the 35k hull going to 40k. That would be 38.5k to 44k. That's before working in say 9 Structural Integrity. Then you're looking at...
45.5k to 52k
vs.
50.1k to 57.2k
Work in some damage resistance to that...say 25% and you're looking at...
60.7k to 69.3k
vs.
66.8k to 76.3k
Work in some additional buffs to hull health - work in some additional damage resistance - throw in some heals on top of that...
...and how does the possibility of it just being an En promoted to Lt compare?
Keep in mind, that's just looking at the hull health...there's also going to be the shields...as well as what you get from having the 11th console slot on the T5-U11 vs. the 10 consoles on the T6.
Can...is a pretty key word there.
Maybe it's a Lt to LCdr...changes things. Maybe it's even a LCdr to Cmdr...definitely changes things, right?
Listening to the players and following what the players want are two very different things. Considering some of the suggestions that players have made over the years, I am glad that the devs don't always do what the players wants. Also there is is too many conflicting suggestions that players make that it gives the impression that we don't know what we want.
Wait? We are not like the Borg,then why do I hear voices in my head????
I'm insulted that your basically going to obsolete (and lets not pretend that not whats going on here) all previous cannon ship purchases just to milk people of their cash.
Comments
How many of the Reputation 5th 'Active' abilities were OP?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I agree. I should go to sleep, since I'm not raging at Cryptic but at certain posters who post from under the bridge.
Yeah, Cryptic could make the T5 upgrade a bit more powerful, but they did much worse before, and they can always give a little more bonuses for the upgrade.
As it stands though, one can't say across the board that T6 is better than T5-U11.
ZEN pricing is kind of goofy...we've got both 9 console and 10 console 2500 ZEN ships. The 10 console 2500 ZEN ships are supposed to be on Fleet level. But not everything Fleet level is equal even ignoring those non-fleet 10 console ZEN ships.
Was just an example of potential cost...not a blanket statement on the industry. My apologies if it came off that way.
Regarding what LTS gets, they get what they pay for...it's not a case of disregarding in it in the least. LTS doesn't guarantee you certain things, so Cryptic hasn't broken any guarantee by not providing certain things.
Again, that information hasn't been provided - and even then - it would have to be made on a case by case/build by build basis.
You have lost nothing. Cryptic did not state that their T5 ships will be top of the line forever. You have not been lied to or mislead in any way, shape or form, other than by your own assumptions.
The game has moved on.
Keep up or be left behind.
Also, I find your "thousands of dollars to upgrade all my characters" an exaggeration, and an irritating one at that. Cryptic has stated that the unlocks will be account-wide.
Thousands of dollars What?? there are not even that many ships to upgrade to reach $500
How many lockbox traits are OP? quite a few
Do you expect lockbox ship traits to be any different?
The problem with this statement is that the level 60 content will become the new end-game content, and the content the playerbase will be doing once enough players reach the new level cap. This is much the same way as STFs are now...players who have reached lvl 50 do not spend their time playing lvl 40 missions and content except as a distraction or to get some reward item they missed.
Thus, if the end content at lvl 60 will be based on the players having T6 ships, then T6 is what becomes the new standard to be used. In this case, T5 become similar to T4 ships currently in the game. Players who bring a T4 Galaxy cruiser to an Elite STF, for instance, face serious issues in handling the content because it is engineered to challenge T5 ships.
Well, I think by definition, the T5.9 ships -have- to be inferior due to the lost BOFF slot, or the converse is that the extra BOFF slot is not useful. If it is useful and the T6 ships do not sacrifice an equivalent amount of abilities in Console seating or shield mods (which it seems they will not, based on the comments we have seen describing them as having 'extras'), then it is something the T5.9 ship lacks, and hence the T5.9 is inferior. The only way the T5.9 would not be inferior would be if it offered different but equal advantages over the T6 ship to compensate for the extra BOFF power and traits it will not have.
Further, you will note they did increase the Gal-X to the levels of other Dreadnaughts, a fairly conclusive proof that the devs agreed that the Gal-X -was not- a true Dreadnaught before they upgraded her.
Why do people buy T4 Z-store ships? Why to they buy T5 Z-store ships that aren't mega-powerful ship-of-the-month? Because each ship offers something that the others do not, and it is that something that makes people want to purchase it. A person who buys the Galaxy-Retrofit knows it isn't going to dominate the battlezone, but it is a -Galaxy-Retrofit-, and provides both a certain BOFF seating and the classic lines of an iconic ship. And so the ship still sells, even though it doesn't have the 'gimick' to make it worth selling.
The T6 ships would be no different. People would want to buy the T6 for their own special qualities, so it isn't necessary for them to have any special traits above T5 ships for them to be desirable for purchase unless the ship itself is so lacking in any other design traits that it -needs- a gimmick to drive it's sales. If so, that smacks of an inferior ship that needs a crutch to stand with.
Consider this. If the new ships are interesting to look at, feature new Bridges, and offer new styling, the ships will sell just as the Avengers sell next to the Excelsiors. Each ship has it's own qualities, but neither obsoletes the other. Players who prefer what the Excelsior offers will buy that ship, and those who like what the Avenger offers will buy that one. There is no need to obsolete one to sell the other.
I do find it interesting that the Mirror ships, all of which are also Lockbox ships (players had to spend Zen to get them, and had them dropped into their hands with the same effort it took to get other Lockbox ships...it was just luck of the draw which one they got), yet every single one is excluded from the same considerations as other Lockbox ships.
The last thing I will say here is that I hope the Devs' statement that no one will be required to upgrade or have a T6 ship to play the lvl 60 content isn't in the same spirit as saying that no one is required to use a T5+ ship to play in an Elite STF. While technically true, that isn't the same as saying that the person who brings a Miranda class T1 Light Cruiser into that STF should expect to be able to complete the STF without undue trouble. Do they mean that un-upgraded T5 ships should be just as able to complete all lvl 60 content as the T6 ships, or did they mean that people can take T5 ships into lvl 60 content, but it's their own fault if they fail for not taking a T6 ship into that content?
We will have to see.
How is that any different than what happens with most items on the C-Store? Tier 6 ships will just be the new shinies on the C-Store like when they first introduced the Tier 5.5 Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid ships and when they first introduced the Rhode Island and other P2W console ships.
Now the old shinies are hardly ever purchased any more and in a year or two, the Tier 6 ships launched with DR will hardly ever be purchased any more. It is the way things are in every MMO with a microtransaction system. If Tier 6 ships were never introduced, then some Tier 5.5 ship would make the other items in the C-Store less attractive. Old shinies always give way to new shinies assuming that the new shinies are of similar quality.
because they didn't want to. One has worked hard to get his Galaxy X just they way he likes it, the other is Excel refit to be a beast. now all that work is thrown out the window. We expected the difference between T5 and T6 to be like fleet and t5. in truth it's soundlike like t3 vs t5 and the non upgradable ships. T2.5 vs T5. They was a big TRIBBLE you to the fanbase, especially with that awful T6 fed cruiser. My fleet has many star trek game modders and all of them HATE that ship.
Again...
...how is that T3 vs. T5?
sshhh, whiner don't like reasoning. it interferes with the ranting.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Now that extra Boff can cause some serious issues. Is this an ensign station, if so probably not a huge issue but if the Boff station has an extra Lt. Commander or Lieutenant this might be the nail on the T5U ship coffin.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
Boof abilites can make all the difference. My fleet does challenge matches to test our builds and the right ability at the right time can either save you or give you the killing blow.
Add in the Fleet Module costs. Add in costs for family.
Did I SAY THEY WOULD LAST FOREVER? NO!
This isn't Everquest or SWG, where you are constantly upgrading your gear! Ships are your AVATAR, and costs $20 per ship!
We don't even know what that new Boff is and already people say they can't live without it:eek:
That's really not Cryptic's problem, now is it? Cryptic provided you with a free ship upgrade. You declined to use it. Your prerogative. Your loss.
Personally, as a non-PvPer and as someone who's never used the Gal-X, I find using the Gal-X in PvP as absurd. The Gal-X is an outdated ship that, even with the buff Cryptic gave it a few months ago, has not aged well at all. It may have been a dreadnought at launch, but it's outstripped by superior ships now.
But hey - you're a big girl/boy/whichever is applicable. Your ship, your choice, your life. Have at it.
Say? No.
Imply you were lead to believe? YES.
Regardless, these upgrades are optional. You're free to continue using your T5 ships and doing Borg STFs like you have for the past 4 years.
This is the part you seem to forget. NOT REQUIRED.
This is sort of like a double-fisted bird-flip at the players.
For many, this is the only way to get T5 Retrofits on many of the lower level ships, because the only other way is to have a MK I-II-III-IV-V dock on a Fleet Starbase.
So for solo players, they are pretty much screwed. What other way can they get an upgrade on their ship, other than to beg their way into a guild for the sole purpose of getting the Fleet version of their ship, or they pay their way into a guild, since that seems to be the new moneymaker for guilds, selling memberships for dock access.
Just another of the MANY reasons Cryptic wont see another dime from me. I am done with their schemes and their attitude towards the players.
I have a lifetime sub. I can't get that money back. But I can certainly sit on the servers, use up space and resources, without spending another dime! :cool:
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Listening to the players and following what the players want are two very different things. Considering some of the suggestions that players have made over the years, I am glad that the devs don't always do what the players wants. Also there is is too many conflicting suggestions that players make that it gives the impression that we don't know what we want.
They said:
I would look at it like Hive Onslaught Elite vs ISE.
Notice there's not even a requirement for an UPGRADED T5 Ship...
If, for some baffling reason, you actually wanted to have both an Assault Cruiser Refit, and a Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit, then those would be separate upgrades (although you would only need to pay for each upgrade once and then all other characters could get their ACR or FACR upgrade for free).
I guess if you only wanted to splurge on the Fleet version on a single/main character instead of all characters that could make sense.
Joined January 2009
totally agree. opinions are fine but there really is no need to start getting personal, although
i do appreciate with some people that can be difficult. but lets be honest, at the moment we
have next to no information, we can speculate all we want, which is cool beans, but until
we have some specific data, speculate is all we can do, in terms of relative differences from
T5 through to T6. it would be a real shame to go to war with each other over this non-specific
information we have at present.
Have you actually read any of these links?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=810361
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=432001
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=792951
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1064181
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1061911
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1059671
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1010521
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=351081
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=974811
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=925411
And this is all on the first page of search results.
Also, have you ever actually done any of the offers? Because the ones who do get paid are the flukes and outliers, not the norm.
That's why I am really hoping that... ...holds true and we can fill those 4 Starship Trait slots using other methods. Otherwise the typically imbalanced ship offerings would just add one more reason to wield farm implements. :P
Thanks again virusdancer for tipping me off about Geko's post there.
Can...is a key word there. For certain builds/concepts, having an Ensign at Lieutenant might have more value than an additional console, more hull, and more shields. One has to keep in mind that the +10% hull and +10% shields are base...
Like the example they gave in the blog of the 35k hull going to 40k. That would be 38.5k to 44k. That's before working in say 9 Structural Integrity. Then you're looking at...
45.5k to 52k
vs.
50.1k to 57.2k
Work in some damage resistance to that...say 25% and you're looking at...
60.7k to 69.3k
vs.
66.8k to 76.3k
Work in some additional buffs to hull health - work in some additional damage resistance - throw in some heals on top of that...
...and how does the possibility of it just being an En promoted to Lt compare?
Keep in mind, that's just looking at the hull health...there's also going to be the shields...as well as what you get from having the 11th console slot on the T5-U11 vs. the 10 consoles on the T6.
Can...is a pretty key word there.
Maybe it's a Lt to LCdr...changes things. Maybe it's even a LCdr to Cmdr...definitely changes things, right?
But we don't have that info yet...
Wait? We are not like the Borg,then why do I hear voices in my head????
I'm insulted that your basically going to obsolete (and lets not pretend that not whats going on here) all previous cannon ship purchases just to milk people of their cash.
I hope this backfires on you.