I think it's because management is looking at numbers and is very specific about things they want in terms of those numbers. And they, they being the developers, are stuck with that.
So while I have no qualms about aiming criticism at them, them being the developers, I do understand that if management wants it done this way, it gets done this way.
I've worked for big companies before. I know how it goes.
Still, there are creative ways to develop the game that both enhance customer retention and meet management goals.
I'd love to see some more of that happen. But it's not been present in anything I've seen in multiple seasons of patches/updates in STO.
Like I said before, are they so unimaginative that THIS is all they give us as a compromise?
Not everyone has to get the best and newest ship available. They prefer aesthetics over function. After DR goes live, there will still be people buying iconic Tier 5 ships. So the OP's premise that Cryptic is removing a portion of their C-Store is invalid. Less people might buy those items, but what else is new. Older items in the C-Store usually see less sales than newer items.
It's more valid than you are giving the OP credit for. Right now people can buy inferior ships. T1, T2, T3 and T4 ships.
And as you can see the sales figures for those are low. Even with the consoles that they come with, they sell less than the latest greatest more powerful new top tier ships.
So the OP makes a valid point. You'll see it in action with the release of more and more T6 ships.
For me it's had a full on impact. I feel the model is too cash intensive for me. I'm gone. I feel like I wasted money on the game, because of how this is being done. But I'm in the minority. For the majority though, you're going to see a dip in sales of the T5 ships and fleet modules.
im fine with paying more to upgrade the c-store ships BUT the fleet ships on KDF side. well most of ours do not even have a c-store version so we had to pay 4 FSM to get ours. and i have 4 kdf toons 4 with tor'kahts( IMO best ship KDF has STILL) 1 with fleet mogh, 1 with fleet brel,1 fleet kamarang.
so the mogh and the brel i did get a discount on because i own ALL the KDF designed ships (not alien ships) but the Torks turned out to be pretty expensive ships. any fleet ship that does not have a c store version should get the free upgrade. but the mogh and brel should have to pay
thats just my 2 cents
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Instead of simply an up-grade option where a T5-U will still be under a T6 ship, allow a trade in option. Upgrade all the ships for free. If a C Store ship that was purchased for 2000 Zen will be 3000 Zen, for T6, then charge me 1000 Zen and take my T5 ship. The T5 ship was purchased in good faith. When I want this years model of my vehicle I don't add new parts to my old, I trade it in. With the knowledge that there will be an additional price but also compensated for what I previously spent.
In regards to Fleet Ships... These ships where purchased with a cost to the entire fleet and the individual. The fleet spent time, resources and in most cases hard earned money to achieve a T5 Star base. Then the individual did the same to acquire the fleet ship. Don't devalue that effort. Upgrade the T5 ships for free, but as with C Store ships allow a trade in option. Whether that be with an additional fleet module, fleet marks or resources.
In reality new players will come to the game that have no gripe when they purchase a T6 ship, but don't set aside those of us that have been here playing the game to and worked to get the T5 ship when it was all that was available. Don't leave us with the only option to upgrade our T5 ship to a lesser version of a T6. Give us an option to get what we originally paid for, the top of the line ships. We purchased a T5 ship, we should not have to pay extra to a make it a 'better' T5 ship. That is what we did in leveling our toons, got better ships. Perhaps that is another option for T5-U, if we purchased a ship it will level up with us as we get to level 60.
In the end, give us what we paid for and if we want the newer model allow us a trade in option.
STO Fleet Admiral Liz
I agree with this idea or something along these lines
I think it's because management is looking at numbers and is very specific about things they want in terms of those numbers. And they, they being the developers, are stuck with that.
So while I have no qualms about aiming criticism at them, them being the developers, I do understand that if management wants it done this way, it gets done this way.
I've worked for big companies before. I know how it goes.
Still, there are creative ways to develop the game that both enhance customer retention and meet management goals.
I'd love to see some more of that happen. But it's not been present in anything I've seen in multiple seasons of patches/updates in STO.
Yeah. I think I recall one of the high-ups in Gearbox talk about Borderlands 2 and mention that a management that is made out of gamers/Developers will be better, because they understand their buyers and know how to deliver a product that will be popular and sell well.
And yes, no matter how skilled a developer, a bad management can ruin a lot.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I also have the Andorian 3-Pack and a Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier, and I do have the Rsia ships but they're more for holding equipment.
Now as it is, I had to get rid of my Andorian ships. I'm leaning towards the JHDC since that upgrade will be free, but I will have to choose between my 3 Fleet ships. Dilithium would be a better way to pay for T5-U upgrades, and since you wanted feedback, there's mine.
Tier 5 ships getting a T5-U upgrade would normally be a good thing, but not getting a Specialist seat or traits like a Tier 6 ship is bad. Cryptic pretty much rendered nearly their entire store useless at level 50.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Instead of simply an up-grade option where a T5-U will still be under a T6 ship, allow a trade in option. Upgrade all the ships for free. If a C Store ship that was purchased for 2000 Zen will be 3000 Zen, for T6, then charge me 1000 Zen and take my T5 ship. The T5 ship was purchased in good faith. When I want this years model of my vehicle I don't add new parts to my old, I trade it in. With the knowledge that there will be an additional price but also compensated for what I previously spent.
In regards to Fleet Ships... These ships where purchased with a cost to the entire fleet and the individual. The fleet spent time, resources and in most cases hard earned money to achieve a T5 Starbase. Then the individual did the same to acquire the fleet ship. Don't devalue that effort. Upgrade the T5 ships for free, but as with C Store ships allow a trade in option. Whether that be with an additional fleet module, fleet marks or resources.
In reality new players will come to the game that have no gripe when they purchase a T6 ship, but don't set aside those of us that have been here playing the game to and worked to get the T5 ship when it was all that was available. Don't leave us with the only option to upgrade our T5 ship to a lesser version of a T6. Give us an option to get what we originally paid for, the top of the line ships. We purchased a T5 ship, we should not have to pay extra to a make it a 'better' T5 ship. That is what we did in leveling our toons, got better ships. Purhaps that is another option for T5-U, if we purchased a ship it will level up with us as we get to level 60.
In the end, give us what we paid for and if we want the newer model allow us a trade in option.
I think it is a mistake to charge us to upgrade the Fleets ships, I understand charging normal C-store ships, but Fleet ships is a wrong move, that's just my 2 cents, i hope you change that, and you will have a much more positive reaction too
now, from what was explained about the mastery, it sounds like there is going to be a separate tree, that you get points to put into stats or something each level... so no level 5 for t5-u means no extra point... and that could mean nothing, or everything, however, with how this game has been designed thus far, im guessing its everything.. once you hit t5 on the mastery, it also unlocks the trait.. which the t5-u does not get.. and im assuming it is not going to be easy to get per whenever they decide to release it for the other ships..
infact, I bet it will be treated like the dual deflector. shelved and not actually finished..
its not just a minor set back for a t5-u, those are pretty major set backs..
like I said in a post before, they are gate locking people who have no interest in t6 ships (weather because they cant afford them, don't like the looks of them, or the layout of the ships) from actually enjoying a new facet of the game... that is unexcuseable.. and I would say with all the explosive power of opposition on this, that something is wrong here.
I'll just quote the T6 blog myself to emphasize a point.
Upon reaching Starship Mastery level 5 a Starship Trait will be unlocked.
So what you loose with T5-U is that trait. Tell me when starting a new alt do you find that, after working through the end-game a bit, that your ship is inescapably uncompettive because you don't have T5 rep abilities? No. Even at that scale of 5 minute cooldown super powers you can easily overcome that disadvantage in every PVE (so long as you have the right equipment and other traits setup). Those extra powers are simply useful and its hard to see how singular ship traits and what will probably be singular novel boff abilties would be any different (or even at the same scale.) You may not have them with a T5-U ship but that won't make it useless much the same way that choosing to use 3 rep space traits doesn't make you useless in ground or using 2 rep ground traits doesn't make you useless in space.
The loss is of something handy, not of something that is mission critical. We've seen starships with unique abilities before (see. Dyson Destroyer modes, Tempest rear turret) and if you need something to comfort yourself through this transition just look at the new content in the same way. T6 ships just have two novelty bits to incentivise business. They're not going to keep you from using anything you have now in ANY part of DR.
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I did have a suggestion about either making the T5U upgrade a bit cheaper, or making it a bit stronger.
Like allowing it T5 Mastery and traits.
That way True T6 ships would still have their PVP/minmaxing NEW Super Secret BO seat. There would be incentive to buy them.
But there would be incentive to buy the T5 upgrade too, for those who like their ships.
OR add new upgrade options:
Like "3000 zen to upgrade all T5 ships to T5U on your account" for people with a lot of alts.
That 3000 zen may not be as much as them upgrading every alt's ship, but maybe.... more people will buy the upgrade that way.
Because they'll think, 7000 zen? I won't buy that. But 3000 zen? I guess I can afford that.
Currently, we miss out (by using a T5-U) on 1x Bridge officer Ability slot (not seat, just one ability), at an unspecified rank. It could be an incredible Commander ability slot, or simply a Lt slot. Potentially a big difference. Also possibly not. Consider upgrading the Vesta's Lt.Comm Universal seat to a Comm Universal. HUGE!
Or, it could upgrade the Tactical Escort Retrofit's Tac En to a Lt En. Cause, you know, it needs more tac slots.
So this could be less of a big deal.
The Hybrid BOFFs... Oh the Hybrids... The blog says the T6 ships at launch will all include Specialist seats. But it gives no indication of rank, or what the hybrid pool will include. Or how many of the hybrid powers a given boffs can use. I would also assume, that given how they specifically state there's an extra ability slot, that the Hybrid officer seat would REPLACE an existing seat. For example, a Comm Hybrid seat instead of a Comm science. To fit a Science, or a Hybrid Science. Again, possibly a big deal, depending on the new ability pools. (10ec says ensign abilities are TRIBBLE )
Starship traits. "These special traits add powerful effects to your starship or your existing captain and bridge officer abilities." These are slotted passive abilities, much like reputation passives. The difference is that you earn them by grinding up a T6. Then jump back in your T5-U ship with it slotted. You miss out on a hybrid boff, and potentially a good Boff seat. Except your Hull has still leveled with you, and you've gained the passive abilities associated with level 1 through 4 of your T5-U ship category.
I don't think the lack of a T6 trait is enough to call a ship "un-competitive."
ive got it up in another window right now.. here we go..
mastery level t5-u 4 t6 5
the very next line (a different line item)
ship trait t5-u none t6 yes
additional bridge officer ability t5-u no t6 yes
specialist bridge officer seat t5-u no t6 yes..
now, from what was explained about the mastery, it sounds like there is going to be a separate tree, that you get points to put into stats or something each level... so no level 5 for t5-u means no extra point... and that could mean nothing, or everything, however, with how this game has been designed thus far, im guessing its everything.. once you hit t5 on the mastery, it also unlocks the trait.. which the t5-u does not get.. and im assuming it is not going to be easy to get per whenever they decide to release it for the other ships..
infact, I bet it will be treated like the dual deflector. shelved and not actually finished..
its not just a minor set back for a t5-u, those are pretty major set backs..
like I said in a post before, they are gate locking people who have no interest in t6 ships (weather because they cant afford them, don't like the looks of them, or the layout of the ships) from actually enjoying a new facet of the game... that is unexcuseable.. and I would say with all the explosive power of opposition on this, that something is wrong here.
Now I know why you are so upset, you have no idea what you are talking about.
1. This: "now, from what was explained about the mastery, it sounds like there is going to be a separate tree, that you get points to put into stats or something each level... so no level 5 for t5-u means no extra point... and that could mean nothing, or everything" is wrong. The new tree is for starships and you get points for it based on experience earned, not by individual starship mastery level.
2. Mastery level is ONLY for the ship trait, not having it and not getting that trait are the same thing not two different things. This is a meaningless difference.
3. Ship traits are earned for that captain and useable by all ships, T5-U will have access to one less trait but they will still be able to use the same number of traits at any time, just like the current Reputation passive Traits.
4. Not all T6 will get the new boff, so T5-U ships are no different there.
If you dont want a T6 ship then DONT BUY ONE, upgrade to a T5-U ship that is identical in every way but the 13th boff.
Currently, we miss out (by using a T5-U) on 1x Bridge officer Ability slot (not seat, just one ability), at an unspecified rank. It could be an incredible Commander ability slot, or simply a Lt slot. Potentially a big difference. Also possibly not. Consider upgrading the Vesta's Lt.Comm Universal seat to a Comm Universal. HUGE!
Or, it could upgrade the Tactical Escort Retrofit's Tac En to a Lt En. Cause, you know, it needs more tac slots.
So this could be less of a big deal.
The Hybrid BOFFs... Oh the Hybrids... The blog says the T6 ships at launch will all include Specialist seats. But it gives no indication of rank, or what the hybrid pool will include. Or how many of the hybrid powers a given boffs can use. I would also assume, that given how they specifically state there's an extra ability slot, that the Hybrid officer seat would REPLACE an existing seat. For example, a Comm Hybrid seat instead of a Comm science. To fit a Science, or a Hybrid Science. Again, possibly a big deal, depending on the new ability pools. (10ec says ensign abilities are TRIBBLE )
Starship traits. "These special traits add powerful effects to your starship or your existing captain and bridge officer abilities." These are slotted passive abilities, much like reputation passives. The difference is that you earn them by grinding up a T6. Then jump back in your T5-U ship with it slotted. You miss out on a hybrid boff, and potentially a good Boff seat. Except your Hull has still leveled with you, and you've gained the passive abilities associated with level 1 through 4 of your T5-U ship category.
I don't think the lack of a T6 trait is enough to call a ship "un-competitive."
I don't want to really get into that here, but expect the new (CLASSIFIED) Bridge officers that are tier6 ship only a BIG DEAL. They'll be important, cool, and in themselves a big attraction, even if they just replace another BO type (Like Commander Secret instead of commander Tac) slot.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
In the latest DEV post about upgrading Tier 5 ships, Cryptic mentioned player feedback would influence how the system was implemented. Therefore I have decided to create this thread which will offer constructive feedback on all of Cryptics systems as they rollout the DEV blogs in the coming weeks. There is one rule: keep it constrctive, no raging, screaming, yelling or gnashing of teeth. If that's what you wanna do then go to the KDF Forums.
Analysis: I am very excited about the new expansion and Cryptics Tier 5 upgrade program seems fair, but I do have some feedback. First of all please don't make the upgrade cost more then $5, anything else would be excessive and make people choose between ships rather then simply upgrade them all, I know I would.
Second, some things will be excluded from Tier 5-U ships, which is fine as long as they are minor. These three things are Starship Traits, Specialist BOFF and an extra BOFF power. Well one of those isn't very minor and could make all Tier 5-U ships considerably more inferior then anyone wants including Cryptic I think. The extra BOFF slot. Why do they get an extra console but not a BOFF slot? They need both to remain competitive I'm afraid. So keep the new bells and whistles exclusive if you must but I implore you to give them the extra BOFF slot.
This is more of a side thought but what happens to Lockbox Ships in the future? Do all the future ones stay Tier 5-U? Or will the new ones become Tier 6? Will the old ones become tier 6? It seems strange that the rarest and most top end ships in the game will become inferior to C-Store ships so I'm inclined to think the new LB ships at least will be Tier 6.
I'm willing to wait if they need time to adjust all of the ships, patience is a virtue! So be patient and forgiving everyone this is no easy task for Cryptic.
Peace Out!
EDIT 1:
I WILL TRY TO KEEP THIS THREAD MOVING THROUGH ALL OF THE IMPORTANT TOPICS RELATED TO THE NEW SYSTEMS, AND I THINK WE HAVE THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED THE SHIP SYSTEM SO LETS MOVE ON TO MK XIV EQUIPMENT. THIS POST IS AVAILABLE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM ON PAGE 4 OF THIS THREAD BUT I FELT IT NEEDED TO BE HERE AS WELL.
Alright let me remind y'all to stay nice! Doing pretty well so far but I do detect some anger... This is understandable but it won't solve any of the problems mentioned.
On to more important matters! We have thoroughly discussed the Tier 5-U upgrade program which I think we all agree is much better than it could have been but still needs a few minor tweaks, namely that extra BOFF slot.
Now lets discuss MK XIV!
Analysis: Cryptic are introducing an entirely new mark of equipment and if they don't handle it properly they could cause mass rioting in the game. There are numerous factors to discuss but mostly this: After years of grinding to get high-end Reputation and Fleet Gear NOBODY wants to do that again. So I propose that ALL fleet, reputation and crafted gear is automatically upgraded to MK XIV. Other gear like the special weapons and equipment from lockboxes (ex. Elachi Crescent Weapons) can be upgraded to their equivalent MK XIII or MK XIV for a modest Dilithium fee. For people with TONS of gear like me a smaller dilithium cost per item would be very nice to have, maybe 2500 per qualifying equipment piece.
This will help solve/ prevent the mass inflation that will likely take place on the exchange and such when the gear becomes available, which in turn will allow for a quicker and smoother adjustment for the playerbase and Cryptic in general.
P.S. Obviously Fleet weapons should become Fleet MK XIV weapons etc. Which begs the question, what about current fleet ships? Will there be Tier 6 Fleet Ships? If not than fleet ships in general will become totally obsolete. This is fine by me as long as currently owned Fleet Ships are given free upgrades to Tier 5-U or Tier 6. It will take away an incentive to grind Starbases, but I am perfectly ok with less grinding.
"When people ask stupid questions I feel obligated to give sarcastic answers."
Keltoi Class... fan design. You KNOW you want one In-game!
Hmn, so only the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit and the Non-STO Birthday Odyssey ships are upgradable - funny, I thought those were EVENT ships, you know, the ANNIVERSARY Event Episodes you get them from?
While, yeah, I can get Ship Traits other ways, a Stock Tier 5 ship, it sounds like, isn't going to be able to use them - basically, they want you in a Tier 5-u or 6 to get the most out of it, but if you fly vanilla (ala Starfleet Battles Channel), you're pretty much just gimping yourself in the end without those passive T5u/6 ship passives at level 60.
So, I guess, whenever that decides to come down the series of tubes that is the internet, I'll just remained gimped in my Vanilla T-5 Support Cruiser Retrofit without nifty ship passives that T5U and 6's only get.
Maybe it will be added later, but knowing Cryptic, I probably had a middle finger from them at my post pointing out those two missing ships from the EVENT ships listing. Yadda-yadda-yadda, not everyone has them, well, so what? Not everyone has a Lobi Ship either.
Of course, this post does not take into account that they might be upgradable by some other means, as it only goes by the list supplied.
okay, so I've been reading only a portion of this thread, but I've read enough to gather one big thing from most of the people not liking this: They're thinking competitively.
It's been stated that unless you plan on spending time doing what will be the future PvE queued events (those only accessible at Level 60), or possibly PvP, There is going to be no need to upgrade just to do the delta quadrant storyline.
Another thing that is driving me nuts with this thread is that people are still considering the Tier 5.9 ships (how I actually feel about them since they aren't going to be 100% tier 6) as being inferior at the end because they don't have an extra boff slot. Come on, this is about the same level as people complaining about the Gal-X not being a true Dreadnought.
Think about this, if Upgraded Tier 5 ships get the special boff seat and the trait from the ship mastery, there would be no point in buying the Tier 6 ships, since the former things are part of the gimmick that makes them worth selling. Just as C-store ships have some console that makes them worth purchasing.
There is one more thing I wanted to say before I'm done. There is a point to them offering lockbox, lobi, grind and veteran ships a free Upgrade. Cryptic probably figures that people spent a lot of money in order to obtain these ships. Except for the Veteran ships, every other ship that can be obtained by both silver and gold players has some serious value to them. They wanted to save people any more money so they gave them free upgrades. For the rest, it'll cost some zen. Just my two cents on this.
Well, I guess us naysayers had it right. Pay to upgrade to T5U which is missing critical features. No way Jose!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's been stated that unless you plan on spending time doing what will be the future PvE queued events (those only accessible at Level 60), or possibly PvP, There is going to be no need to upgrade just to do the delta quadrant storyline.
Oh, that's a relief, so if I don't play half the game I'll be just fine. Great.
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Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Hmn, so only the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit and the Non-STO Birthday Odyssey ships are upgradable - funny, I thought those were EVENT ships, you know, the ANNIVERSARY Event Episodes you get them from?
Event ships are only accessible through the events. You can't nip down to the shipyard and pick up a Risian Corvette like you can a Vanilla Oddy.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Well, you're not paying for something you've already paid for. The upgrade is 'additional'.
Really, the C-Store ships which are already mostly T4 anyway, only some of which provide a small discount for Fleet refits, doesn't make sense anymore, especially with T6 around the corner.
Those items should reflect their expected tier, so that 20$-25$ you're spending on a ship would be it.
Instead you're paying 20$ for a T4 ship, another 5$ and grind on a Fleet variant, or another 5$ and grind (or additional c-store item) for an upgrade.
From now on I'll refer to this new mechanic as 'Upgrayedd', with two D's for a double dose of cryptics' pimping.
edit: never mind...I had to say, I had to post it, but I'm not stupid enough to leave it.
the issue it that we are getting tired of being ignored. My fleet has 2 lifers in it. both have been here since beta. and out of all their ships only one the vet ship is free and several are not even upgradeable. It was bad enough when we saw the look of the fed T6 cruiser but now have tons of them fly around after spending potentially years working on a ship to now have it be completely useless. This upgrade as made all previous ships now like the Galaxy Retro. I even chated with a guy on another game that's browers base and he says that this isn't the first time PWE has done something like this. They feel the game is all but done so they milk it for as much money as possible before it sinks. Never mind their actions cause it to sink earilier then it would otehrwise.
Most of the whining in this thread is probably being taken out of proportion - the reaction to the whining that is. It's likely that with all the entitlement nonsense that's being spewed, one cannot help but think about what's going on in their neighborhoods, their countries, and around the globe. One should keep in mind, though, that this is only a game - and - although you may feel inclined to slap some of your fellow posters around like you wish you could some of the people you see whining in the world...it's really not worth getting that upset about them. Yes, they are likely the same people outside of the game that are causing countless problems throughout the world...and should you come across them on forums elsewhere, have at them for all the ludicrous garbage they're spewing - minding the rules of said forums, obviously. But here, it's probably easiest not to let them get you riled up and say something that could result in your getting banned...meaning you could not offer rational feedback rather than all the bunched up panties hysteria. Then the forums would surely drown in the miasma of those who obviously buy their ships with welfare checks or some other government subsidy or even mommy/daddy's credit card...resulting in PWE saying TRIBBLE this and killing the game off. So it is definitely in your best interest and the best interest of the game to ignore them completely - laugh it off, making sure to do so without posting as that could result in moderator action against you as well - while offering Cryptic actual constructive feedback, whether negative or positive...so that the game can continue on and thrive. Anything else, and you'd just end up feeding the potential doom that would come about by removing a reasonable voice that needs to be heard amongst all the spoiled children with their soiled diapers.
Oh, its this guy again.
(/Sarcasm on)Yes, people being upset that the character(ship) they put years of effort into is now useless is the type of people who make the world a bad place. Oh, you are a genious sir! How come you aren't the President Lordmaster of the Earth with a brain as big as yours?
Whoa, think of the children! People are upset that their stuff is no longer any good! Oh the outrage, how dare they! How dare they demand something more useful for the money they are considering to spend, and they could possibly spend elsewhere? Yes, its them, not like drug barons and robbers, who make this world a bad place! (/Sarcasm off)
You are completely out of control.
You should really read your post, quit gaming for a while and travel around the world.
Than after you saw a little of it, you can return here, and realise how utterly ridiculous your post was.
And yes, I managed to quote you before you cowarded out of it.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Event ships are only accessible through the events. You can't nip down to the shipyard and pick up a Risian Corvette like you can a Vanilla Oddy.
Yeah. There's a big difference between doing those event dailies for the Risian ships or Breen ships, or the vanilla Dyson Science Destroyer...
... and then doing one mission for the limited edition Ambassador or vanilla Odyssey (or in this case going to the shipyard to buy one).
I don't like some of these changes, either. But let's be fair and realistic here, the effort to get some event ships is much more time consuming than the Ambassador or Odyssey anniversary ships.
Comments
Like I said before, are they so unimaginative that THIS is all they give us as a compromise?
It's more valid than you are giving the OP credit for. Right now people can buy inferior ships. T1, T2, T3 and T4 ships.
And as you can see the sales figures for those are low. Even with the consoles that they come with, they sell less than the latest greatest more powerful new top tier ships.
So the OP makes a valid point. You'll see it in action with the release of more and more T6 ships.
For me it's had a full on impact. I feel the model is too cash intensive for me. I'm gone. I feel like I wasted money on the game, because of how this is being done. But I'm in the minority. For the majority though, you're going to see a dip in sales of the T5 ships and fleet modules.
so the mogh and the brel i did get a discount on because i own ALL the KDF designed ships (not alien ships) but the Torks turned out to be pretty expensive ships. any fleet ship that does not have a c store version should get the free upgrade. but the mogh and brel should have to pay
thats just my 2 cents
I agree with this idea or something along these lines
I may as well join with them.
Yeah. I think I recall one of the high-ups in Gearbox talk about Borderlands 2 and mention that a management that is made out of gamers/Developers will be better, because they understand their buyers and know how to deliver a product that will be popular and sell well.
And yes, no matter how skilled a developer, a bad management can ruin a lot.
-Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
-Fleet Galaxy Dreadnought Cruiser
-Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit
I also have the Andorian 3-Pack and a Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier, and I do have the Rsia ships but they're more for holding equipment.
Now as it is, I had to get rid of my Andorian ships. I'm leaning towards the JHDC since that upgrade will be free, but I will have to choose between my 3 Fleet ships. Dilithium would be a better way to pay for T5-U upgrades, and since you wanted feedback, there's mine.
Tier 5 ships getting a T5-U upgrade would normally be a good thing, but not getting a Specialist seat or traits like a Tier 6 ship is bad. Cryptic pretty much rendered nearly their entire store useless at level 50.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Excellent idea
I'll just quote the T6 blog myself to emphasize a point.
So what you loose with T5-U is that trait. Tell me when starting a new alt do you find that, after working through the end-game a bit, that your ship is inescapably uncompettive because you don't have T5 rep abilities? No. Even at that scale of 5 minute cooldown super powers you can easily overcome that disadvantage in every PVE (so long as you have the right equipment and other traits setup). Those extra powers are simply useful and its hard to see how singular ship traits and what will probably be singular novel boff abilties would be any different (or even at the same scale.) You may not have them with a T5-U ship but that won't make it useless much the same way that choosing to use 3 rep space traits doesn't make you useless in ground or using 2 rep ground traits doesn't make you useless in space.
The loss is of something handy, not of something that is mission critical. We've seen starships with unique abilities before (see. Dyson Destroyer modes, Tempest rear turret) and if you need something to comfort yourself through this transition just look at the new content in the same way. T6 ships just have two novelty bits to incentivise business. They're not going to keep you from using anything you have now in ANY part of DR.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Currently, we miss out (by using a T5-U) on 1x Bridge officer Ability slot (not seat, just one ability), at an unspecified rank. It could be an incredible Commander ability slot, or simply a Lt slot. Potentially a big difference. Also possibly not. Consider upgrading the Vesta's Lt.Comm Universal seat to a Comm Universal. HUGE!
Or, it could upgrade the Tactical Escort Retrofit's Tac En to a Lt En. Cause, you know, it needs more tac slots.
So this could be less of a big deal.
The Hybrid BOFFs... Oh the Hybrids... The blog says the T6 ships at launch will all include Specialist seats. But it gives no indication of rank, or what the hybrid pool will include. Or how many of the hybrid powers a given boffs can use. I would also assume, that given how they specifically state there's an extra ability slot, that the Hybrid officer seat would REPLACE an existing seat. For example, a Comm Hybrid seat instead of a Comm science. To fit a Science, or a Hybrid Science. Again, possibly a big deal, depending on the new ability pools. (10ec says ensign abilities are TRIBBLE
Starship traits. "These special traits add powerful effects to your starship or your existing captain and bridge officer abilities." These are slotted passive abilities, much like reputation passives. The difference is that you earn them by grinding up a T6. Then jump back in your T5-U ship with it slotted. You miss out on a hybrid boff, and potentially a good Boff seat. Except your Hull has still leveled with you, and you've gained the passive abilities associated with level 1 through 4 of your T5-U ship category.
I don't think the lack of a T6 trait is enough to call a ship "un-competitive."
Now I know why you are so upset, you have no idea what you are talking about.
1. This: "now, from what was explained about the mastery, it sounds like there is going to be a separate tree, that you get points to put into stats or something each level... so no level 5 for t5-u means no extra point... and that could mean nothing, or everything" is wrong. The new tree is for starships and you get points for it based on experience earned, not by individual starship mastery level.
2. Mastery level is ONLY for the ship trait, not having it and not getting that trait are the same thing not two different things. This is a meaningless difference.
3. Ship traits are earned for that captain and useable by all ships, T5-U will have access to one less trait but they will still be able to use the same number of traits at any time, just like the current Reputation passive Traits.
4. Not all T6 will get the new boff, so T5-U ships are no different there.
If you dont want a T6 ship then DONT BUY ONE, upgrade to a T5-U ship that is identical in every way but the 13th boff.
I don't want to really get into that here, but expect the new (CLASSIFIED) Bridge officers that are tier6 ship only a BIG DEAL. They'll be important, cool, and in themselves a big attraction, even if they just replace another BO type (Like Commander Secret instead of commander Tac) slot.
Here you go: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
Analysis: I am very excited about the new expansion and Cryptics Tier 5 upgrade program seems fair, but I do have some feedback. First of all please don't make the upgrade cost more then $5, anything else would be excessive and make people choose between ships rather then simply upgrade them all, I know I would.
Second, some things will be excluded from Tier 5-U ships, which is fine as long as they are minor. These three things are Starship Traits, Specialist BOFF and an extra BOFF power. Well one of those isn't very minor and could make all Tier 5-U ships considerably more inferior then anyone wants including Cryptic I think. The extra BOFF slot. Why do they get an extra console but not a BOFF slot? They need both to remain competitive I'm afraid. So keep the new bells and whistles exclusive if you must but I implore you to give them the extra BOFF slot.
This is more of a side thought but what happens to Lockbox Ships in the future? Do all the future ones stay Tier 5-U? Or will the new ones become Tier 6? Will the old ones become tier 6? It seems strange that the rarest and most top end ships in the game will become inferior to C-Store ships so I'm inclined to think the new LB ships at least will be Tier 6.
I'm willing to wait if they need time to adjust all of the ships, patience is a virtue! So be patient and forgiving everyone this is no easy task for Cryptic.
Peace Out!
EDIT 1:
I WILL TRY TO KEEP THIS THREAD MOVING THROUGH ALL OF THE IMPORTANT TOPICS RELATED TO THE NEW SYSTEMS, AND I THINK WE HAVE THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED THE SHIP SYSTEM SO LETS MOVE ON TO MK XIV EQUIPMENT. THIS POST IS AVAILABLE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM ON PAGE 4 OF THIS THREAD BUT I FELT IT NEEDED TO BE HERE AS WELL.
Alright let me remind y'all to stay nice! Doing pretty well so far but I do detect some anger... This is understandable but it won't solve any of the problems mentioned.
On to more important matters! We have thoroughly discussed the Tier 5-U upgrade program which I think we all agree is much better than it could have been but still needs a few minor tweaks, namely that extra BOFF slot.
Now lets discuss MK XIV!
Analysis: Cryptic are introducing an entirely new mark of equipment and if they don't handle it properly they could cause mass rioting in the game. There are numerous factors to discuss but mostly this: After years of grinding to get high-end Reputation and Fleet Gear NOBODY wants to do that again. So I propose that ALL fleet, reputation and crafted gear is automatically upgraded to MK XIV. Other gear like the special weapons and equipment from lockboxes (ex. Elachi Crescent Weapons) can be upgraded to their equivalent MK XIII or MK XIV for a modest Dilithium fee. For people with TONS of gear like me a smaller dilithium cost per item would be very nice to have, maybe 2500 per qualifying equipment piece.
This will help solve/ prevent the mass inflation that will likely take place on the exchange and such when the gear becomes available, which in turn will allow for a quicker and smoother adjustment for the playerbase and Cryptic in general.
P.S. Obviously Fleet weapons should become Fleet MK XIV weapons etc. Which begs the question, what about current fleet ships? Will there be Tier 6 Fleet Ships? If not than fleet ships in general will become totally obsolete. This is fine by me as long as currently owned Fleet Ships are given free upgrades to Tier 5-U or Tier 6. It will take away an incentive to grind Starbases, but I am perfectly ok with less grinding.
Keltoi Class... fan design. You KNOW you want one In-game!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
While, yeah, I can get Ship Traits other ways, a Stock Tier 5 ship, it sounds like, isn't going to be able to use them - basically, they want you in a Tier 5-u or 6 to get the most out of it, but if you fly vanilla (ala Starfleet Battles Channel), you're pretty much just gimping yourself in the end without those passive T5u/6 ship passives at level 60.
So, I guess, whenever that decides to come down the series of tubes that is the internet, I'll just remained gimped in my Vanilla T-5 Support Cruiser Retrofit without nifty ship passives that T5U and 6's only get.
Maybe it will be added later, but knowing Cryptic, I probably had a middle finger from them at my post pointing out those two missing ships from the EVENT ships listing. Yadda-yadda-yadda, not everyone has them, well, so what? Not everyone has a Lobi Ship either.
Of course, this post does not take into account that they might be upgradable by some other means, as it only goes by the list supplied.
It's been stated that unless you plan on spending time doing what will be the future PvE queued events (those only accessible at Level 60), or possibly PvP, There is going to be no need to upgrade just to do the delta quadrant storyline.
Another thing that is driving me nuts with this thread is that people are still considering the Tier 5.9 ships (how I actually feel about them since they aren't going to be 100% tier 6) as being inferior at the end because they don't have an extra boff slot. Come on, this is about the same level as people complaining about the Gal-X not being a true Dreadnought.
Think about this, if Upgraded Tier 5 ships get the special boff seat and the trait from the ship mastery, there would be no point in buying the Tier 6 ships, since the former things are part of the gimmick that makes them worth selling. Just as C-store ships have some console that makes them worth purchasing.
There is one more thing I wanted to say before I'm done. There is a point to them offering lockbox, lobi, grind and veteran ships a free Upgrade. Cryptic probably figures that people spent a lot of money in order to obtain these ships. Except for the Veteran ships, every other ship that can be obtained by both silver and gold players has some serious value to them. They wanted to save people any more money so they gave them free upgrades. For the rest, it'll cost some zen. Just my two cents on this.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Oh, that's a relief, so if I don't play half the game I'll be just fine. Great.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Event ships are only accessible through the events. You can't nip down to the shipyard and pick up a Risian Corvette like you can a Vanilla Oddy.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Really, the C-Store ships which are already mostly T4 anyway, only some of which provide a small discount for Fleet refits, doesn't make sense anymore, especially with T6 around the corner.
Those items should reflect their expected tier, so that 20$-25$ you're spending on a ship would be it.
Instead you're paying 20$ for a T4 ship, another 5$ and grind on a Fleet variant, or another 5$ and grind (or additional c-store item) for an upgrade.
From now on I'll refer to this new mechanic as 'Upgrayedd', with two D's for a double dose of cryptics' pimping.
the issue it that we are getting tired of being ignored. My fleet has 2 lifers in it. both have been here since beta. and out of all their ships only one the vet ship is free and several are not even upgradeable. It was bad enough when we saw the look of the fed T6 cruiser but now have tons of them fly around after spending potentially years working on a ship to now have it be completely useless. This upgrade as made all previous ships now like the Galaxy Retro. I even chated with a guy on another game that's browers base and he says that this isn't the first time PWE has done something like this. They feel the game is all but done so they milk it for as much money as possible before it sinks. Never mind their actions cause it to sink earilier then it would otehrwise.
Oh, its this guy again.
(/Sarcasm on)Yes, people being upset that the character(ship) they put years of effort into is now useless is the type of people who make the world a bad place. Oh, you are a genious sir! How come you aren't the President Lordmaster of the Earth with a brain as big as yours?
Whoa, think of the children! People are upset that their stuff is no longer any good! Oh the outrage, how dare they! How dare they demand something more useful for the money they are considering to spend, and they could possibly spend elsewhere? Yes, its them, not like drug barons and robbers, who make this world a bad place! (/Sarcasm off)
You are completely out of control.
You should really read your post, quit gaming for a while and travel around the world.
Than after you saw a little of it, you can return here, and realise how utterly ridiculous your post was.
And yes, I managed to quote you before you cowarded out of it.
Yeah. There's a big difference between doing those event dailies for the Risian ships or Breen ships, or the vanilla Dyson Science Destroyer...
... and then doing one mission for the limited edition Ambassador or vanilla Odyssey (or in this case going to the shipyard to buy one).
I don't like some of these changes, either. But let's be fair and realistic here, the effort to get some event ships is much more time consuming than the Ambassador or Odyssey anniversary ships.