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Tier 5 Starship Upgrades

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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    They are not as wise as Ferengi. Ferengi know that good customers are like latinum, treasure them.


    Someone who have payed a lot already is likely to pay more if he/she is kept happy.

    And THAT is how the game stays from NOT being sent to its grave. It's Star Trek. The name alone will bring in money. And, if you play it like a Ferengi and keep the customer happy, the money will keep coming. But apparently PWE/Cryptic can't wrap their short term economic heads around it.
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  • asardetemplariasardetemplari Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lystent wrote: »
    They said that the t5 ships would NOT at all be obsolete. I rolled my eyes.


    And then I made this.
    latest?cb=20160406061118&path-prefix=en

    Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
  • zopiclone15mgzopiclone15mg Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I've spent a lot of real money on Zen store t5 ships and feel I'm being punished for doing so instead of buying lockbox keys. I'll wait until release for Cryptic to revise this stupid upgrade policy and if they don't then I'll be spending my money on other games and finally retire from this farce.
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    buddha1369 wrote: »
    The mastery is how you GET the starship trait, that is a non issue. also:



    The ONLY difference between T6 and T5-U is the 13th boff ability

    yes, more than likely some ridiculously rare drop out of a lock box.. no thanks.. they are so kind to make it available to all so easily.
  • venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I might be too much of a single-player. 'Star Trek: Online' is my very first multi-player game. Since I can get more from a $60 game, 'Star Trek: Online' just justified my reasons for hatting MMOs. I do not like MMOs/MMORPGS. I came into 'Star Trek: Online' as a Star Trek fan. If 'Star Trek: Online' didn't go Free2Play, I know for a fact I would not have tried the game. Over the past few years, my family casually bought $500 in zen purchases. We have enjoyed: the featured episodes, the social gatherings, the ground missions, patrols, some events, clothing options, 'Legacy of Romulous', and some of the reputation system.

    During the past twelve to fifteen months, 'Star Trek: Online' has evolved into an expensive game. When I do not feel a need to buy something, I will casually spend allot of money on extras. Once I feel someone pushing me into buying something, I close my wallet as a form of protesting.

    I protest against peer-pressure.

    I protest against conformity.

    T5-Upgrades and T6 ships are causing anxiety. 'Star Trek: Online' is an extra. If I were to pull the plug tomorrow, I can live the rest of my life without 'Star Trek: Online'.

    I came for the 'Star Trek' experience.

    Unless the prices of the T5-Upgrades are low, I do not see myself sticking around.

    My life is filled with passion, beauty, and love. If a video game is giving me stress, I have to make some serious changes to my online habits. I may have to turn back to single-player games, so I can get my money's worth of entertainment. When I compare single-player games to 'Star Trek: Online', I notice that Cryptic's game is too expensive and risky.

    I apologize for being extremely critical; however, I am not sorry for carrying my views.

    Sometimes I just want to shake Cryptic awake.

    I have some very important 'STO' decisions to make.

    *waits quietly for the next blog*
  • kyeto13kyeto13 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Again, I echo the general statement about this move mirroring the fleet ship upgrades.

    You can get a basic C-Store Ship

    And then you can upgrade it for some additional zen.

    This is the exact same process they are using now. It also will keep a majority of the ships at endgame still viable and the diversity up. But it won't give a TOTALLY unfair advantage to the T6 ships. And again, the devs have to eat as well.

    A fair system and I will be putting money into the game for this. Good Job, Cryptic.
    Live on Earth. Work in Space. Play with Dragons. Join the best add on to STO, the Neverwinter holodeck program! Only 14 GPL a month.
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ah, thank you for clearing that Cryptic shafting of my beloved ship. So my Vor'Cha has been stiffed. Hmmm...

    Well, if you'll all excuse me I have to go on a nerdy Dragon Rage in downtown Crypticville. =3

    Remember STF Elite kiddies, hate me not my T5. :P

    Yeah, and even with the potential T5-U upgrades, current lockbox, Lobi, etc. ships will still lag a tad behind true T6 ships. Which has really made folks that bought the The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship Returns! Duty Officer Pack Promo so very happy, I'm sure...

    Still, they are requesting feedback, they are getting it in spades, so maybe they'll at least make some adjustments. Maybe they'll do something along the lines of what I suggested, planned to all along, but wanted spending Zen on the upgrade to true T6 to appear better than the alternative.

    Yes, I still want that Tinfoil Hat costume unlock you leaked on Twitter.
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I have a couple ships that are free upgrades so I'll likely use those for leveling. The rest, other than the fleet ships and the Odyssey, I'll probably dump.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    For the 'Upgrade Item,' since it sounds like y'all haven't decided on the exact method, why not just use Fleet Ship Modules since they're already in the game and serve basically the same function? Would certainly simplify things.

    That is probably how they will handle, the upgrades for fleet ships I am guessing.

    Something like 500zen + 1 FSM.

    While normal C-store ships, will probably cost in the neighborhood of 500zen, for ships that were 500-1500zen, and 1000zen for ships that cost 2000-2500zen.

    This is only speculation, but would seem to be logical!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • twistedvaccinetwistedvaccine Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ok, at least you're trying to come up with a solution, which appears to happen very rarely.

    I see only a couple problems. First, the numbers are FAR too low. Consider the sale price in credits for a warp core at a vendor for instance. And the exp, if there's an abundance, you're not really working for it are you?

    Second, what does cryptic get? Yes, your time. But with resources paid into writing the new code, and again, server time, that's a net loss for them.

    PWE is a profit based organization. Not a charity. Any solution the players come up with NEEDS to benefit them as well.

    Very true, the numbers I gave were just an example..

    It just seems like a missed opportunity for a fun refit style mission, with dry docks ect.. anything to add something different.

    Nevermind sir, thanks for the feedback anyway :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ok, at least you're trying to come up with a solution, which appears to happen very rarely.

    I see only a couple problems. First, the numbers are FAR too low. Consider the sale price in credits for a warp core at a vendor for instance. And the exp, if there's an abundance, you're not really working for it are you?

    Second, what does cryptic get? Yes, your time. But with resources paid into writing the new code, and again, server time, that's a net loss for them.

    PWE is a profit based organization. Not a charity. Any solution the players come up with NEEDS to benefit them as well.

    I did have a suggestion about either making the T5U upgrade a bit cheaper, or making it a bit stronger.

    Like allowing it T5 Mastery and traits.

    That way True T6 ships would still have their PVP/minmaxing NEW Super Secret BO seat. There would be incentive to buy them.

    But there would be incentive to buy the T5 upgrade too, for those who like their ships.

    OR add new upgrade options:

    Like "3000 zen to upgrade all T5 ships to T5U on your account" for people with a lot of alts.

    That 3000 zen may not be as much as them upgrading every alt's ship, but maybe.... more people will buy the upgrade that way.

    Because they'll think, 7000 zen? I won't buy that. But 3000 zen? I guess I can afford that.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • alejogalejog Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I wouldn't mind paying for an upgrade if the upgraded ship was equal to tier 6. However, the upgraded ship will NOT be equal. One less bridge officer powers makes a big difference, also, whather that intelligence officer does I am sure will make a huge difference in gameplay.

    Therefore all my previous ships have just become obsolete and worthless even if I upgrade. This is unacceptable!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team

    Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    And THAT is how the game stays from NOT being sent to its grave. It's Star Trek. The name alone will bring in money. And, if you play it like a Ferengi and keep the customer happy, the money will keep coming. But apparently PWE/Cryptic can't wrap their short term economic heads around it.

    the last 4 years is hardly short term, nor is their 'beyond' 2018 (i think was cited) projections
    for license and currently in developement dooh daah...
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    puttenham wrote: »
    don't forget one less mastery,and no starship trait ...

    Those are one and the same (level 5 confirs that starship trait.) What you have with T5-U is a ship that has all the stats and console space as a T6 ship but lacks the NEW abilities (which is just the space for the new boffs and the ship trait). That's it. Its T6 in every other respect, cryptic is just keeping those new powers to ships that have been specifically designed for them.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    I might be too much of a single-player. 'Star Trek: Online' is my very first multi-player game. Since I can get more from a $60 game, 'Star Trek: Online' just justified my reasons for hatting MMOs. I do not like MMOs/MMORPGS. I came into 'Star Trek: Online' as a Star Trek fan. If 'Star Trek: Online' didn't go Free2Play, I know for a fact I would not have tried the game. Over the past few years, my family casually bought $500 in zen purchases. We have enjoyed: the featured episodes, the social gatherings, the ground missions, patrols, some events, clothing options, 'Legacy of Romulous', and some of the reputation system.

    During the past twelve to fifteen months, 'Star Trek: Online' has evolved into an expensive game. When I do not feel a need to buy something, I will casually spend allot of money on extras. Once I feel someone pushing me into buying something, I close my wallet as a form of protesting.

    I protest against peer-pressure.

    I protest against conformity.

    T5-Upgrades and T6 ships are causing anxiety. 'Star Trek: Online' is an extra. If I were to pull the plug tomorrow, I can live the rest of my life without 'Star Trek: Online'.

    I came for the 'Star Trek' experience.

    Unless the prices of the T5-Upgrades are low, I do not see myself sticking around.

    My life is filled with passion, beauty, and love. If a video game is giving me stress, I have to make some serious changes to my online habits. I may have to turn back to single-player games, so I can get my money's worth of entertainment. When I compare single-player games to 'Star Trek: Online', I notice that Cryptic's game is too expensive and risky.

    I apologize for being extremely critical; however, I am not sorry for carrying my views.

    Sometimes I just want to shake Cryptic awake.

    I have some very important 'STO' decisions to make.

    *waits quietly for the next blog*
    I'm 100% with you but I'm not spending more money unless I can be guaranteed this won't happen with anything I buy in the new expansion.
    signature.png
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Probably ony do the free ones. The rest arenot likely to be worth it in the long run.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    They are not as wise as Ferengi. Ferengi know that good customers are like latinum, treasure them.


    Someone who have payed a lot already is likely to pay more if he/she is kept happy.

    That's not their current business direction. They have said a few times that they are about the NEW player. And vet players seem to annoy them the most. So those players who have spent hundreds of dollars on stuff in this game? They're "being taken care of."

    Their plan is to replace them all with a new horde of players that haven't yet spent those hundreds.

    They have placed less focus on retention and keeping loyal customers happy.

    This is two fold:

    1- Some customers will keep taking the abuse/neglect and keep paying money regardless. So they can keep making that money with ZERO effort.
    2- The other customers require too much effort and aren't worth it in terms of ROI.

    It's a numbers thing. At least for management.

    The thing is, this game is very much past the point of freshness. So at some point lack of retention does catch up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    That's not their current business direction. They have said a few times that they are about the NEW player. And vet players seem to annoy them the most. So those players who have spent hundreds of dollars on stuff in this game? They're "being taken care of."

    Their plan is to replace them all with a new horde of players that haven't yet spent those hundreds.

    They have placed less focus on retention and keeping loyal customers happy.

    This is two fold:

    1- Some customers will keep taking the abuse/neglect and keep paying money regardless. So they can keep making that money with ZERO effort.
    2- The other customers require too much effort and aren't worth it in terms of ROI.

    It's a numbers thing. At least for management.

    The thing is, this game is very much past the point of freshness. So at some point lack of retention does catch up.
    @qziqza THAT is short term economics.
    signature.png
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    That's not their current business direction. They have said a few times that they are about the NEW player. And vet players seem to annoy them the most. So those players who have spent hundreds of dollars on stuff in this game? They're "being taken care of."

    Their plan is to replace them all with a new horde of players that haven't yet spent those hundreds.

    They have placed less focus on retention and keeping loyal customers happy.

    This is two fold:

    1- Some customers will keep taking the abuse/neglect and keep paying money regardless. So they can keep making that money with ZERO effort.
    2- The other customers require too much effort and aren't worth it in terms of ROI.

    It's a numbers thing. At least for management.

    The thing is, this game is very much past the point of freshness. So at some point lack of retention does catch up.

    I understand the points you make, I'm just not sure that with the competition and the freeflow of information on the internet, that it is a long-lasting model.

    Unless they really want to begin to advertise the game, but that costs money too.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tpalelena wrote: »
    I understand the points you make, I'm just not sure that with the competition and the freeflow of information on the internet, that it is a long-lasting model.

    Unless they really want to begin to advertise the game, but that costs money too.

    It isn't! That's the problem and they can't/won't acknowledge that. If Cryptic/PWE doesn't make reparations to this business model and, airgo, the game. It's gonna go under in much less than 2 years,
    signature.png
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Those are one and the same (level 5 confirs that starship trait.) What you have with T5-U is a ship that has all the stats and console space as a T6 ship but lacks the NEW abilities (which is just the space for the new boffs and the ship trait). That's it. Its T6 in every other respect, cryptic is just keeping those new powers to ships that have been specifically designed for them.

    ive got it up in another window right now.. here we go..

    mastery level t5-u 4 t6 5
    the very next line (a different line item)
    ship trait t5-u none t6 yes

    additional bridge officer ability t5-u no t6 yes

    specialist bridge officer seat t5-u no t6 yes..

    now, from what was explained about the mastery, it sounds like there is going to be a separate tree, that you get points to put into stats or something each level... so no level 5 for t5-u means no extra point... and that could mean nothing, or everything, however, with how this game has been designed thus far, im guessing its everything.. once you hit t5 on the mastery, it also unlocks the trait.. which the t5-u does not get.. and im assuming it is not going to be easy to get per whenever they decide to release it for the other ships..

    infact, I bet it will be treated like the dual deflector. shelved and not actually finished..

    its not just a minor set back for a t5-u, those are pretty major set backs..

    like I said in a post before, they are gate locking people who have no interest in t6 ships (weather because they cant afford them, don't like the looks of them, or the layout of the ships) from actually enjoying a new facet of the game... that is unexcuseable.. and I would say with all the explosive power of opposition on this, that something is wrong here.
  • astro2244astro2244 Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    They're "being taken care of."

    I can't help Think of Palpatine from Revenge of the sith with the above quote. :D

    Long story short he told the separatist leaders who wanted their money, that he was sending his new apprentice (Darth vader) to mustafar to meet them. And that "he will take care of you"
    [SIGPIC]583px-Romulan_Star_Empire_logo%2C_2379.svg.png
    [/SIGPIC]
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    astro2244 wrote: »
    They're "being taken care of."

    I can't help Think of Palpatine from Revenge of the sith with the above quote. :D

    Long story short he told the separatist leaders who wanted their money, that he was sending his new apprentice (Darth vader) to mustafar to meet them. And that "he will take care of you"

    HAHA! too true! But you have a very valid point.
    signature.png
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Customer retention is critical in the success of any online game.
    If you can't retain customers then the game is doomed to a slow and painful death.

    Now look at Blizzard, they actually give a damn about their paying customers, and after 10 years WoW is STILL the most popular MMORPG in the world.
    And the kicker of it is that its NOT a free 2 play nickle-and-dime game. :rolleyes:
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Well...not quite...maybe. Depends on if the T6 gets extra boff slots or not. If the T6 has the same number of slots as the T5...then yes, what you said is true...if not...then no, it's not as boff slots are stats too.

    Yes, boff slots are stats too but that extra seat you can bet is going to be consumed by the new specialist powers. That again seems like just a design choice to keep the new abilities off the old ships (and for either balance or incentive to upgrade to a full T-6 ship that's not an unreasonable move. It may not satisfy everyone for the simple reason that its content not freely given but the fact that this is a F2P MMO it shouldn't be the least surprising. Again we went through this with fleet ships [and had an inferior solution then at that.])
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • archershranarchershran Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lizdan73 wrote: »
    Here are my thoughts and where I stand...

    Instead of simply an up-grade option where a T5-U will still be under a T6 ship, allow a trade in option. Upgrade all the ships for free. If a C Store ship that was purchased for 2000 Zen will be 3000 Zen, for T6, then charge me 1000 Zen and take my T5 ship. The T5 ship was purchased in good faith. When I want this years model of my vehicle I don't add new parts to my old, I trade it in. With the knowledge that there will be an additional price but also compensated for what I previously spent.

    In regards to Fleet Ships... These ships where purchased with a cost to the entire fleet and the individual. The fleet spent time, resources and in most cases hard earned money to achieve a T5 Starbase. Then the individual did the same to acquire the fleet ship. Don't devalue that effort. Upgrade the T5 ships for free, but as with C Store ships allow a trade in option. Whether that be with an additional fleet module, fleet marks or resources.

    In reality new players will come to the game that have no gripe when they purchase a T6 ship, but don't set aside those of us that have been here playing the game to and worked to get the T5 ship when it was all that was available. Don't leave us with the only option to upgrade our T5 ship to a lesser version of a T6. Give us an option to get what we originally paid for, the top of the line ships. We purchased a T5 ship, we should not have to pay extra to a make it a 'better' T5 ship. That is what we did in leveling our toons, got better ships. Purhaps that is another option for T5-U, if we purchased a ship it will level up with us as we get to level 60.

    In the end, give us what we paid for and if we want the newer model allow us a trade in option.

    STO Fleet Admiral Liz





    Ok fleet; opinions and feed back.

    Liz


    I concur with my esteemed fleet mate
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It isn't! That's the problem and they can't/won't acknowledge that. If Cryptic/PWE doesn't make reparations to this business model and, airgo, the game. It's gonna go under in much less than 2 years,

    I think it's because management is looking at numbers and is very specific about things they want in terms of those numbers. And they, they being the developers, are stuck with that.

    So while I have no qualms about aiming criticism at them, them being the developers, I do understand that if management wants it done this way, it gets done this way.

    I've worked for big companies before. I know how it goes.

    Still, there are creative ways to develop the game that both enhance customer retention and meet management goals.

    I'd love to see some more of that happen. But it's not been present in anything I've seen in multiple seasons of patches/updates in STO.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Not everyone has to get the best and newest ship available. They prefer aesthetics over function. After DR goes live, there will still be people buying iconic Tier 5 ships. So the OP's premise that Cryptic is removing a portion of their C-Store is invalid. Less people might buy those items, but what else is new. Older items in the C-Store usually see less sales than newer items.
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