Note this.... Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
"With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost." Notice how they said Tier 6 capabilities! It was used so people couldn't catch them on a legality and their sales of Romulan Duty Officer Packs didn't plummet.
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
It is funny that the free Risian Corvette will be light years better than my very expensive Fleet Assault cruiser on season X release. For the Free players it is a good thing for those of us that have paid money to the game it is not. In fact that is the one thing that really stands out to me with this announcement.
Cryptic is very clearing treating freeloaders (not that there is anything wrong with that) better than those of us that pay their salaries by spending actual money.
- Starship Trait
- Additional BO ability
- Specialized BO seats
The above list seems like gamechangers for ships. (And is half the list of features -- not just "a few bells and whistles.")
If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but that will make T5Us obsolete from the start.
I have to agree...this is very disappointing, but it's exactly what I expected. I'm kind of annoyed because I play this game to use canon ships that I saw when I watched the Star Trek series and movies. This basically confirms that all the canon ships that I have will pretty much suck when compared to the new T6 ships. So basically, I need to have some ugly cryptic designed T6 ship if I want to remain competitive in PvP or enjoy any of the new ship features...that's lovely. :rolleyes:
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
(this is actually the FOURTH time I had to post this exact thing)
Wrong!
As you can see, upgraded Tier 5 ships share many of the benefits of a Tier 6 starship with a few exceptions.
Below is a table that outlines precisely which benefits T5-U and T6 ships receive.
T5-U starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally..............The fifth Starship Mastery level on Tier 6 ships unlocks the starships trait.
Tier 5U only go to level 4. Level 5 is required to get the special trait and only T6 ships go to level 5. I saw nothing in the blog that would indicate that T5U ships would ever be able to get the special trait. From the looks of things leveling up your T5U ship stops 1 level shy of ever being able to get it.
I can understand T5U ships not getting a special bridge officer station, but they should at least be able to go to level 5 and unlock the special trait. Otherwise the gap between a fully upgraded T5 and T6 is going to be a major difference and still make it feel like our ships are obsolete.
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
I think Tier 6 capabilities means T5-U, which has some Tier 6 ship capabilities. About 50%...
Smirk or Trendy could u please clear some things up will the fleet ships be upgraded to the new level of the t6 or the t5-u. because I think that's all the people want to know. thanks so much. because of all the growling I cant make out whats being said .
A couple of things crossed my mind when reading the list of upgradeable ships.
First, the event Dyson Science Destroyers are free to upgrade, but their c-store versions are not. When I got the c-store bundle, I discarded my event versions, as at the time the only thing worth keeping from them was the warp core. But now, would a free upgrade to a T5U event ship be preferable to the ones I paid for? Or are the upgrades somewhat comparable?
You're still fine.
The event version was a nine console Rear Admiral ship, while the C-Store bundle is a 10 console Vice Admiral ship. If you upgrade that you will have a Tier 5-U 11 console ship.
If you had upgraded the event ship alone it would be a 10 console Tier 5-U but without the set pieces that came with the bundle.
Cryptic it would be best to address upgrading bundles early on I believe.
Second, what about ships that can be upgraded both with a T5U and a Fleet version? Does paying for the upgrade to the 'normal' version unlock an upgrade if you choose to buy the fleet version later? Or would you pay twice for the T5U if you bought them in the 'wrong' order?
I like the thoroughness of the ship list overall. And I'll be sure to enjoy my free upgrades, and then see if maybe I want to go the extra bit for my other favorite ships.
No. The C-Store and Fleet versions have different upgrade unlocks. If I upgrade my Assault Cruiser Refit to tier 5-U, it won't effect my Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. At least not that they've said. A discount similar to the Fleet Module discount isn't impossible, but they haven't even hinted at anything like that. Gorgonzolla said only upgrade the ship you intend to use if you have both.
Since the price for the upgrade is TBD, I'll just say this.
If it's over 500z, I won't pay it.
I'm largely fine with a paid upgrade since that's what I did with my fleet ships. But if it's over the cost of that upgrade, I simply won't use it. It doesn't matter that it's an account wide unlock.
Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable. But I come from an era when MMOs focused primarily on subscription fees instead of microtransactions. It's difficult for me to adapt to certain aspects the industry is evolving into.
When you spend money on something considered to be best-of-the-best, top-of-the-line, or whatever... advertised as such? I personally think as a matter of ethics (not business) that that should be honored in the future.
I'm not saying it has to, just that it should.
In-game equipment, such as Mk XI, Mk XII, or whatever... things from the rep systems, and basically earned through entirely in-game means should be considered far more malleable since they are things earned with time and effort spent, rather than real world money.
That's where I see the disconnect. Players expect money spent on their purchases will have long-term value. It's a one-time microtransaction fee. You pay $50 for this 3-pack of ships and never have to worry about having a top-of-the-line ship again.
I understand that's not how it works in reality. But Cryptic kind of put themselves into this position by capitalizing on spaceships being one of the biggest selling points of the game. Asking players to fork over a few dollars more for things they already spent $25, $50, or $100 so they can stay top-of-the-line (that isn't even getting into the nitty-gritty of T5-U and T6), I think is a bit unreasonable.
I think the major problem is the way the gaming culture reacted around here.
Hardcore gamers will squeeze every ounce of ability out of whatever equipment they have, and the ships count as equipment.
What Cryptic did was they started making ships that were outright superior. Not different or unique, but superior. Considering how many times ships have been outright obsoleted over and over, I'm still having issues feeling the argument that we were told that these ships would be top tier forever when I feel that such a statement would've been obsolete two years ago, but the fact is that them releasing ships that were outright superior all in the same tier has contributed to this problem.
And the mechanism of the lockbox only exacerbated it. Gambling prints money, and we all know that, but it's still not right. Those that don't gamble, spend immense amounts of Energy Credits, which is an entirely different grind, to buy these ships on the exchange.
So we're left in this position where a long expected increase in level cap across the board is greeted with derision and fury because Cryptic failed to communicate the reality properly and created unreal expectations. Players have their part as well because they believed that these things were forever, and it's not just because Cryptic said this or that, but because players wanted to.
It's not purely a simple as that, and it certainly isn't accurate across the board, but that's just some of what I've been seeing out of these reactions over the last few weeks.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
As I read it, T6 capabilities means scaling health and stats. An extra BOFF power (new T6) vs extra console slot (upgraded ship) is irrelevant to them, it would seem. Both a T5-U bug and a T6 ship get the same type of stats and bonuses from "Starship Mastery" since both can slot the same traits.
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
This really does need some clarity as that is not at all how I or anyone I know took it. Are all lockbox ships upgraded to T6 or T5U? Or is the JHAS the only T6 and they were just lazy in not creating a separate category for it.
iconians, I know you've been here long enough to know to NEVER take craptic at their word!!
Of course I take them at their word. If I didn't, I wouldn't participate in the forums at all, or do business with them. I'm not that cynical.
I wouldn't ask them questions at all if I knew they would just lie to me. I wouldn't even listen to what they had to say if I disbelieved 100% of everything they say.
Tier 5U only go to level 4. Level 5 is required to get the special trait and only T6 ships go to level 5. I saw nothing in the blog that would indicate that T5U ships would ever be able to get the special trait. From the looks of things leveling up your T5U ship stops 1 level shy of ever being able to get it.
I can understand T5U ships not getting a special bridge officer station, but they should at least be able to go to level 5 and unlock the special trait. Otherwise the gap between a fully upgraded T5 and T6 is going to be a major difference and still make it feel like our ships are obsolete.
Tier 5-U and Tier 6 both have four ship levels, the twist is that the fifth level the tier 6 gets is SOLELY to get the trait, it doesn't improve the ship's performance at all. So literally on that track all the Tier 6 ship has over the 5-U is the ability to get the trait natively.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
T6 and T5U are two different things. This forces everyone to use the T6 ships regardless of how ugly they are, and in my opinion, the lockbox ships are all worthless pieces of TRIBBLE, as well as the Lobi and Promotional box ships. All ships that have cost more money than your typical T5 ships, fleet ships, and I'm willing to bet that on average will still cost more than even the T6 ships, which are better, have all the bells and whistles and perks. If you want those extra bonuses going anything but T6 means you won't have them.
Many of us around here have spent far more than just $25 for a ship that we enjoy flying and to have be second rate in terms of abilities is disturbing.
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what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
Not unfair, they do have to make money to feed the tribbles.
The price point will be important though, and that we aren't 100% on yet.
Tier 5-U and Tier 6 both have four ship levels, the twist is that the fifth level the tier 6 gets is SOLELY to get the trait, it doesn't improve the ship's performance at all. So literally on that track all the Tier 6 ship has over the 5-U is the ability to get the trait natively.
They have said it just unlocks the trait, not native. They have the same 4 ship trait slots that it would have to be slotted into.
Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable. But I come from an era when MMOs focused primarily on subscription fees instead of microtransactions. It's difficult for me to adapt to certain aspects the industry is evolving into.
When you spend money on something considered to be best-of-the-best, top-of-the-line, or whatever... advertised as such? I personally think as a matter of ethics (not business) that that should be honored in the future.
I'm not saying it has to, just that it should.
In-game equipment, such as Mk XI, Mk XII, or whatever... things from the rep systems, and basically earned through entirely in-game means should be considered far more malleable since they are things earned with time and effort spent, rather than real world money.
That's where I see the disconnect. Players expect money spent on their purchases will have long-term value. It's a one-time microtransaction fee. You pay $50 for this 3-pack of ships and never have to worry about having a top-of-the-line ship again.
I understand that's not how it works in reality. But Cryptic kind of put themselves into this position by capitalizing on spaceships being one of the biggest selling points of the game. Asking players to fork over a few dollars more for things they already spent $25, $50, or $100 so they can stay top-of-the-line (that isn't even getting into the nitty-gritty of T5-U and T6), I think is a bit unreasonable.
Well said.
Personally i wouldn't mind to pay some $ZEN$ but Cryptics credibility suffers from T6 ships IMO.
I fail to see why i should spend REAL money for a digital ship (in a game i don't own) which will be outdated in some months?
Yeah, i'm old fashioned, but i don't care.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Smirk or Trendy could u please clear some things up will the fleet ships be upgraded to the new level of the t6 or the t5-u. because I think that's all the people want to know. thanks so much. because of all the growling I cant make out whats being said .
Fleet ships not upgradeable are those that cost 200k fleet credits, *no* fleet ship modules, and don't have the word "Fleet" in their name. These are essentially *not* fleet ships at all, even though they cost fleet credits and you need to have progressed far enough in your fleet starbase to unlock them. In other words, the only fleet ships that can be upgraded are those that cost fleet ship modules.
Isn't that nice? Ya buy the c-store version, pay more for a fleet ship module, then have to pay even more to upgrade it.
In my opinion, if you own and upgrade a c-store ship that has a fleet version, the fleet version should be upgraded free of charge because some players may upgrade their c-store ship to tide them over until they can purchase a fleet version of it, so it wouldn't seem fair to charge even more for essentially upgrading the same ship again.
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
Did it cost to upgrade from a 9 console ship to a 10 console Fleet ship?
So should it cost to upgrade from a T5 ship to a T5-U ship?
You know, most succesful and popular AAA developers don't try to force their subscribers to PAY for full character progression. :mad:
Yes they do. They just front-load the cost.
In STO we get an xpac basically for free, if we want it. Feel free to pay for the full experience.
As many others here, I don't mind paying to upgrade my current ship(s) to remain competitive. It's common to pay $40-50 for an xpac in other MMOs. I don't mind spending that to upgrade my favourite T5 starships to keep them up to snuff in Delta Rising.
What I disapprove of is paying money and still finding my favourite T5 ships left in the dust.
That feels like a wasted investment now.
$5-10 to upgrade my T5 Fleet vessel to a T6 fleet vessel feels fine to me. I might even do that several times more to upgrade some other old favourites, and then spend some more on new T6 models.
I don't mind paying. I like the game and I've spend over $150 in STO already. But all along I've been paying for choice. Restricting my choices this way now is undesirable to me.
Cryptic/PWE, you are out of your minds. You expect me to pay to grind? and that all I've ground and paid for to mean nothing unless I pay more? I bought the Galaxy bundle and 2 fleet gal x's (for 2 different characters) the day BEFORE Delta Rising was announced. You, quite literally, made me waste my money and you expect me to pay more? Are you TRIBBLE? I'm not, goodbye.
It's not every day you see a F2P MMO company willing to toss a large portion of it's online store in the garbage. This is practically unheard of in the industry and it will certainly be interesting to see what the result will be -- and I mean this seriously.
It's a scary gamble on Cryptic's part. If they have too many people like me who will not buy the ugly T6 ships, nor willing to pay for an inferior T5U upgrade this could blow up in their face and anger PWE.
Comments
So all lockbox ships would therefore all have T6 capabilities instead of T5-U capabilities. The distinction is pretty clear that the JHAS is getting a free upgrade to T6, even if it lacks the specialist bridge officer seating.
I think it does warrant some clarification from Cryptic.
Either Cryptic lied about the JHAS being given the T6 treatment.
Or all lockbox ships in that list that is shared with the JHAS are also given the T6 treatment.
Cryptic is very clearing treating freeloaders (not that there is anything wrong with that) better than those of us that pay their salaries by spending actual money.
So my 10 or so $20 ships are pretty much worthless unless I spent 1/4 to 1/2 the original cost again ? ?
Excuse me while I find a way to properly tell you to F off.
Oh.....wait
Preferably on the Tactical Lieutenant on the Galaxy-X
I have to agree...this is very disappointing, but it's exactly what I expected. I'm kind of annoyed because I play this game to use canon ships that I saw when I watched the Star Trek series and movies. This basically confirms that all the canon ships that I have will pretty much suck when compared to the new T6 ships. So basically, I need to have some ugly cryptic designed T6 ship if I want to remain competitive in PvP or enjoy any of the new ship features...that's lovely. :rolleyes:
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
Wrong! The chart shows: Starship trait - Upgraded Tier 5 [No]; Tier 6 [Yes].
Tier 5U only go to level 4. Level 5 is required to get the special trait and only T6 ships go to level 5. I saw nothing in the blog that would indicate that T5U ships would ever be able to get the special trait. From the looks of things leveling up your T5U ship stops 1 level shy of ever being able to get it.
I can understand T5U ships not getting a special bridge officer station, but they should at least be able to go to level 5 and unlock the special trait. Otherwise the gap between a fully upgraded T5 and T6 is going to be a major difference and still make it feel like our ships are obsolete.
I think Tier 6 capabilities means T5-U, which has some Tier 6 ship capabilities. About 50%...
iconians, I know you've been here long enough to know to NEVER take craptic at their word!!
You're still fine.
The event version was a nine console Rear Admiral ship, while the C-Store bundle is a 10 console Vice Admiral ship. If you upgrade that you will have a Tier 5-U 11 console ship.
If you had upgraded the event ship alone it would be a 10 console Tier 5-U but without the set pieces that came with the bundle.
Cryptic it would be best to address upgrading bundles early on I believe.
No. The C-Store and Fleet versions have different upgrade unlocks. If I upgrade my Assault Cruiser Refit to tier 5-U, it won't effect my Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. At least not that they've said. A discount similar to the Fleet Module discount isn't impossible, but they haven't even hinted at anything like that. Gorgonzolla said only upgrade the ship you intend to use if you have both. I think 500z is a perfectly equitable price.
I think the major problem is the way the gaming culture reacted around here.
Hardcore gamers will squeeze every ounce of ability out of whatever equipment they have, and the ships count as equipment.
What Cryptic did was they started making ships that were outright superior. Not different or unique, but superior. Considering how many times ships have been outright obsoleted over and over, I'm still having issues feeling the argument that we were told that these ships would be top tier forever when I feel that such a statement would've been obsolete two years ago, but the fact is that them releasing ships that were outright superior all in the same tier has contributed to this problem.
And the mechanism of the lockbox only exacerbated it. Gambling prints money, and we all know that, but it's still not right. Those that don't gamble, spend immense amounts of Energy Credits, which is an entirely different grind, to buy these ships on the exchange.
So we're left in this position where a long expected increase in level cap across the board is greeted with derision and fury because Cryptic failed to communicate the reality properly and created unreal expectations. Players have their part as well because they believed that these things were forever, and it's not just because Cryptic said this or that, but because players wanted to.
It's not purely a simple as that, and it certainly isn't accurate across the board, but that's just some of what I've been seeing out of these reactions over the last few weeks.
This really does need some clarity as that is not at all how I or anyone I know took it. Are all lockbox ships upgraded to T6 or T5U? Or is the JHAS the only T6 and they were just lazy in not creating a separate category for it.
Of course I take them at their word. If I didn't, I wouldn't participate in the forums at all, or do business with them. I'm not that cynical.
I wouldn't ask them questions at all if I knew they would just lie to me. I wouldn't even listen to what they had to say if I disbelieved 100% of everything they say.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Tier 5-U and Tier 6 both have four ship levels, the twist is that the fifth level the tier 6 gets is SOLELY to get the trait, it doesn't improve the ship's performance at all. So literally on that track all the Tier 6 ship has over the 5-U is the ability to get the trait natively.
T6 and T5U are two different things. This forces everyone to use the T6 ships regardless of how ugly they are, and in my opinion, the lockbox ships are all worthless pieces of TRIBBLE, as well as the Lobi and Promotional box ships. All ships that have cost more money than your typical T5 ships, fleet ships, and I'm willing to bet that on average will still cost more than even the T6 ships, which are better, have all the bells and whistles and perks. If you want those extra bonuses going anything but T6 means you won't have them.
Many of us around here have spent far more than just $25 for a ship that we enjoy flying and to have be second rate in terms of abilities is disturbing.
Top DPS 102k
Not unfair, they do have to make money to feed the tribbles.
The price point will be important though, and that we aren't 100% on yet.
If its the low end of the range, I'd be happy.
The top end, much less so.
They have said it just unlocks the trait, not native. They have the same 4 ship trait slots that it would have to be slotted into.
Personally i wouldn't mind to pay some $ZEN$ but Cryptics credibility suffers from T6 ships IMO.
I fail to see why i should spend REAL money for a digital ship (in a game i don't own) which will be outdated in some months?
Yeah, i'm old fashioned, but i don't care.
Here is their list of ships that will be upgradeable and it includes fleet ships http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
Fleet ships not upgradeable are those that cost 200k fleet credits, *no* fleet ship modules, and don't have the word "Fleet" in their name. These are essentially *not* fleet ships at all, even though they cost fleet credits and you need to have progressed far enough in your fleet starbase to unlock them. In other words, the only fleet ships that can be upgraded are those that cost fleet ship modules.
Isn't that nice? Ya buy the c-store version, pay more for a fleet ship module, then have to pay even more to upgrade it.
In my opinion, if you own and upgrade a c-store ship that has a fleet version, the fleet version should be upgraded free of charge because some players may upgrade their c-store ship to tide them over until they can purchase a fleet version of it, so it wouldn't seem fair to charge even more for essentially upgrading the same ship again.
Did it cost to upgrade from a 9 console ship to a 10 console Fleet ship?
So should it cost to upgrade from a T5 ship to a T5-U ship?
Why is it even a question? Like...duh...
Yes they do. They just front-load the cost.
In STO we get an xpac basically for free, if we want it. Feel free to pay for the full experience.
As many others here, I don't mind paying to upgrade my current ship(s) to remain competitive. It's common to pay $40-50 for an xpac in other MMOs. I don't mind spending that to upgrade my favourite T5 starships to keep them up to snuff in Delta Rising.
What I disapprove of is paying money and still finding my favourite T5 ships left in the dust.
That feels like a wasted investment now.
$5-10 to upgrade my T5 Fleet vessel to a T6 fleet vessel feels fine to me. I might even do that several times more to upgrade some other old favourites, and then spend some more on new T6 models.
I don't mind paying. I like the game and I've spend over $150 in STO already. But all along I've been paying for choice. Restricting my choices this way now is undesirable to me.
different, level 5, active traits?
The prices quoted are a little high, unless the prices of the T6 ships are higher that 2500 Z.
I do like that the upgrades are account wide
It's a scary gamble on Cryptic's part. If they have too many people like me who will not buy the ugly T6 ships, nor willing to pay for an inferior T5U upgrade this could blow up in their face and anger PWE.
Interesting times ahead.