In STO we get an xpac basically for free, if we want it. Feel free to pay for the full experience.
As many others here, I don't mind paying to upgrade my current ship(s) to remain competitive. It's common to pay $40-50 for an xpac in other MMOs. I don't mind spending that to upgrade my favourite T5 starships to keep them up to snuff in Delta Rising.
What I disapprove of is paying money and still finding my favourite T5 ships left in the dust.
That feels like a wasted investment now.
$5-10 to upgrade my T5 Fleet vessel to a T6 fleet vessel feels fine to me. I might even do that several times more to upgrade some other old favourites, and then spend some more on new T6 models.
I don't mind paying. I like the game and I've spend over $150 in STO already. But all along I've been paying for choice. Restricting my choices this way now is undesirable to me.
This is my sentiment as well...I don't mind them charging zen to upgrade my current ships, but it bothers me that they will still suck compared to the T6 ships even after being upgraded. That doesn't sit well with me at all.
I don't call it unfair. To me its a fair price for a upgrade version of your old favorite ship. Plus they have to make $ to keep the game going. And for future additions. To me the price isn't that bad. I can farm Dil for that amount easy. So even myself is more willing to do it. Plus you had to pay for the Fleet version as well. And all it is a regular ship upgraded. So I don't see an issue at all.
Granted all ships isn't for upgrades. However they did told more will show up later on. They mainly hit the favorite ships most loves to use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Asking us to pay to upgrade our T5 ships is reasonable. I bought my tac Odyssey when it came out, I don't care about putting another $5 on it.
But doing so seems pointless if it's always going to be short a boff seat compared to T6 seats, especially if it's a LT seat or above. Higher-level boff seating trumps an extra console slot every single time.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
This is my sentiment as well...I don't mind them charging zen to upgrade my current ships, but it bothers me that they will still suck compared to the T6 ships even after being upgraded. That doesn't sit well with me at all.
how is it even possible to come to that conclusion before more detailed information
comes out?
They have said it just unlocks the trait, not native. They have the same 4 ship trait slots that it would have to be slotted into.
That's what I meant. I didn't mean to imply that the level 5 trait was going to be integrated, just that you can actually unlock it in a tier 6 ship, which is something you can't do in a Tier 5-U, in that you would need to unlock that trait in a Tier 6 ship and "import" it so to speak, using it in your 5-U. Sorry for the poor wording.
In STO we get an xpac basically for free, if we want it. Feel free to pay for the full experience.
As many others here, I don't mind paying to upgrade my current ship(s) to remain competitive. It's common to pay $40-50 for an xpac in other MMOs. I don't mind spending that to upgrade my favourite T5 starships to keep them up to snuff in Delta Rising.
What I disapprove of is paying money and still finding my favourite T5 ships left in the dust.
That feels like a wasted investment now.
$5-10 to upgrade my T5 Fleet vessel to a T6 fleet vessel feels fine to me. I might even do that several times more to upgrade some other old favourites, and then spend some more on new T6 models.
I don't mind paying. I like the game and I've spend over $150 in STO already. But all along I've been paying for choice. Restricting my choices this way now is undesirable to me.
Hmm.
I can understand that.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
1- I'm still a very very big Star Trek fan. And this game is still a Star Trek game. I'm done with the hamster wheel... And I'm obviously not happy with the game as it is. But I still am a huge fan of the IP and the idea of the game.
There is an alternative way to play the game. Stop caring about shinies and find the good stories in the Foundry. I promise you that it will feel like a Star Trek game.
If fleet T6 is 4k or less, smart thing is do not buy T5 because the final product will cost just as much but wont be as good. So basically cryptic is saying, wait until we have a T6 ship you want, and whatever you do DO NOT BUY ANY T5 SHIPS. Or you know, they could give all 10-console ships free upgrade to T5-U, incentize people to keep buying T5 until there are enough T6 ships to fill a shopping cart. Like...duh...
As for the OP, my guess is that Zen will go to 300 dil per in fairly short order, as everybody will be trying to get the modules with all their stockpiled dil
At least my Lockbox ships will get free upgrades. As far as paying ZEN to upgrade what I already have, haha!!! And if you think I'm paying ZEN to upgrade a fleet ship that I needed ZEN to buy in the first place, bahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE NOT GETTING MY MONEY CRYPTIC!!!
Asking us to pay to upgrade our T5 ships is reasonable. I bought my tac Odyssey when it came out, I don't care about putting another $5 on it.
But doing so seems pointless if it's always going to be short a boff seat compared to T6 seats, especially if it's a LT seat or above. Higher-level boff seating trumps an extra console slot every single time.
I believe it is an extra power, not necessarily seat. So the total number of Boff powers will be one extra, but the Odyssey will have an extra console. That's how I read it at least.
This is my sentiment as well...I don't mind them charging zen to upgrade my current ships, but it bothers me that they will still suck compared to the T6 ships even after being upgraded. That doesn't sit well with me at all.
Honestly, I'm confused by this sentiment.
Based on what they've told us between the two blogs; I'm having a hard time seeing any reason so far to get a T6 ship...because with the information they've provided us so far...they suck in comparison to the T5-U11 ships.
We don't know what rank that additional BOFF ability will be...in exchange for -1 console, -10% hull, -10% shields. We don't know what the Specialist BOFF abilities will be and if they're going to be worth trading a normal BOFF ability for in that hybrid seat. We don't know what the unlocked Starship Traits will be in comparison to the Starship Traits available elsewhere.
Until they give us that information...well, the T6 ships are looking pretty damn lackluster compared to the T5-U11 ships.
As a closed beta player and life time player I say if we there's to be a Zen cost, keep it small. Say no more than 500 Zen to upgrade. Next, make sure that we get all five levels of the mastery and the trait. Then we will have competitive ships.
I believe it is an extra power, not necessarily seat. So the total number of Boff powers will be one extra, but the Odyssey will have an extra console. That's how I read it at least.
Some of the statements from devs in this thread describe it as "the 13th bridge officer seat."
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
If it was 1 ship, then I wouldn't mind. But when I'm staring at having to upgrade over 50 ships in my inventory, at 500 to 1500 Zen a ship, for an upgrade that inferior to Tier 6 ships, I get a really sour feeling in my stomach.
And because of that, right now, I have nothing but contempt towards PWE and the Cryptic team.
Until they give us that information...well, the T6 ships are looking pretty damn lackluster compared to the T5-U11 ships.
as it stands at the moment im inclined to agree.. T6 ships do seem more shine than
substance in comparison. added to that, i really cant see cryptic shooting their lobi
earnings in the collectors.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
Many of which I probably have equipped already. Or at least, I've got the ones that are useful for my build.
I'd rather have an extra console than, say, an extra ensign. But I'd rather have an extra lieutenant or lieutenant commander slot than an extra console.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
Not to mention set bonuses. You can cram more sets in with 11 consoles. I've felt constrained by 10 consoles for a long time now. 11 consoles, here we come. >:}
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
They have to find the sweet spot where people are willing to pay money again for a ship they already bought (or bought twice for fleet!) to still be sub-par to the newer ships.
Having the unlock be account-wide is NOT Cryptic being nice since they know most people use a different ship on every character. It's a little slab of BS they thew at players.
It needs to be dirt cheap ($2) or simply a payment of dilithium.
So None of the pre-existing ships will be able to achieve 'true' T6 and can only reach T5u. No canon ships will be able to benefit fully from the T6 benefits. The [redacted] boffs will be useless on T5u ships since they can't use their special abilities (so if you intend on using old ships, these new boffs might as well not exist). And no level 5 ship specialization on T5u means that if you want to use the T5u/T6 traits, you can't avoid piloting a T6 ship.
And on top of that, you have to pay $5-$10 for your ship to upgrade unless it's lockbox/lobi/promotion, even if you already paid for an upgrade through fleet modules.
So we could be paying as much as $40 (C-store+Fleet Module+T5u upgrade) to get a 'end-game' ship total, and still not be able to benefit from traits (unless you buy a T6 ship and level it up first) or from these new boffs and their powers.
The free ships from missions and the mirror ships are being left in the dirt, guess i gotta say goodbye to my mirror dhelan . good while it lasted
Im still worried about my LB ships, i think that the unique stuff that comes with them will hopefully make them equal to T6. Would hate to see my Recluse go bye bye.
Im happy cryptic finally released this info though, it crushed some speculation and confirmed others, I was really hoping the upgrades would not cost zen but that was just wishful thinking.
In the end though, i will be able to upgrade my fleet and LB ships for free, so I suppose I will live without my mirror ships and my free ambassador.
edit: Wish they would not do the "price will be way lower if you buy this and that, but you still gotta pay for the upgrade in the end anyway" thing. Why cant they set a solid price, say 500-1000 zen per ship or couple ships. I see what their doing here, trying to get people to buy T6, but if the zen price is way to high, Im not sure i will buy any upgrade or T6 ship.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
Some of the statements from devs in this thread describe it as "the 13th bridge officer seat."
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
13th seat... they must have meant power/ability. Our ships today have at most what? 5 seats?
As to consoles, there are some darn nice ones avaliable in the exchange.
I think it's flat out greedy and wrong. Say I paid for a Z-store ship. That's 2000-2500 zen, right there. $20-25 right out of the gate. Say I want a fleet variant. That's another 500 zen. So, we're up to 2500-3000 zen for that one ship. That's twice I have paid for a single item. Now, they want me to pay again?
Tell me, what about the people who bought the 2000-2500 zen ship, without buying the fleet upgrade? Are they going to have to pay for the fleet upgrade, then the T5U upgrade? Or do they get away with spending less? If the fee to upgrade is 500, I've just lost out, after my fleet put in the time and effort to gain the ability to receive what, after this system takes effect, is an inferior ship. Is that anywhere near remotely rewarding to the fleet that sunk all that time and dilithium into their base? Not in the slightest.
If you're content paying 3 times for the same ship, where does the line get drawn? 4 times? 5? 10? Or do you just keep letting them charge you for something you already have?
Pay once to permanently upgrade a T5 ship for all characters on your account. That's cool.
But I'm concerned about after you buy the upgrade. Will I have to level up that ship on each character, or will I only have to level up 1 ship on a single character?
I don't like the thought of having such a grind to where I would need to spend time leveling up a Fleet Avenger, for example, on multiple characters. I think leveling up ships you've bought T5U upgrades for should be an account wide permanent increase as well. Otherwise it's just another per-character reputation-like system.
its a sad day to see that we have spent all this time to build up a fleet so people can be able to get their fleet ships and now have to turn around to just to upgrade them to a t5-u ship. smirk and trendy please tell the devs not to do this, this is going to hurt everyone that has invested into their fleet. I do think this is going to hurt the people that have a small fleet. it hard enough to get people to invest in a fleet. and if this goes through people will be like why invest into a fleet! so please let the devs know what people have said. and by the way trendy and smirk thanks for doing a grat job. see you on the next live stream.
Comments
This is my sentiment as well...I don't mind them charging zen to upgrade my current ships, but it bothers me that they will still suck compared to the T6 ships even after being upgraded. That doesn't sit well with me at all.
Granted all ships isn't for upgrades. However they did told more will show up later on. They mainly hit the favorite ships most loves to use.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
But doing so seems pointless if it's always going to be short a boff seat compared to T6 seats, especially if it's a LT seat or above. Higher-level boff seating trumps an extra console slot every single time.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
how is it even possible to come to that conclusion before more detailed information
comes out?
That's what I meant. I didn't mean to imply that the level 5 trait was going to be integrated, just that you can actually unlock it in a tier 6 ship, which is something you can't do in a Tier 5-U, in that you would need to unlock that trait in a Tier 6 ship and "import" it so to speak, using it in your 5-U. Sorry for the poor wording.
Hmm.
I can understand that.
There is an alternative way to play the game. Stop caring about shinies and find the good stories in the Foundry. I promise you that it will feel like a Star Trek game.
Because they dont have enough T6 ships to discourage T5 sales yet?
C-store T5 ship, 2500z
Fleet module, 500z
T5-U module, 500-1000z
Total, 3500-4000z
If fleet T6 is 4k or less, smart thing is do not buy T5 because the final product will cost just as much but wont be as good. So basically cryptic is saying, wait until we have a T6 ship you want, and whatever you do DO NOT BUY ANY T5 SHIPS. Or you know, they could give all 10-console ships free upgrade to T5-U, incentize people to keep buying T5 until there are enough T6 ships to fill a shopping cart. Like...duh...
As for the OP, my guess is that Zen will go to 300 dil per in fairly short order, as everybody will be trying to get the modules with all their stockpiled dil
Cryptic? Going back on something they said previously? I for one am shocked. SHOCKED.
I believe it is an extra power, not necessarily seat. So the total number of Boff powers will be one extra, but the Odyssey will have an extra console. That's how I read it at least.
Honestly, I'm confused by this sentiment.
Based on what they've told us between the two blogs; I'm having a hard time seeing any reason so far to get a T6 ship...because with the information they've provided us so far...they suck in comparison to the T5-U11 ships.
We don't know what rank that additional BOFF ability will be...in exchange for -1 console, -10% hull, -10% shields. We don't know what the Specialist BOFF abilities will be and if they're going to be worth trading a normal BOFF ability for in that hybrid seat. We don't know what the unlocked Starship Traits will be in comparison to the Starship Traits available elsewhere.
Until they give us that information...well, the T6 ships are looking pretty damn lackluster compared to the T5-U11 ships.
Some of the statements from devs in this thread describe it as "the 13th bridge officer seat."
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
If it was 1 ship, then I wouldn't mind. But when I'm staring at having to upgrade over 50 ships in my inventory, at 500 to 1500 Zen a ship, for an upgrade that inferior to Tier 6 ships, I get a really sour feeling in my stomach.
And because of that, right now, I have nothing but contempt towards PWE and the Cryptic team.
as it stands at the moment im inclined to agree.. T6 ships do seem more shine than
substance in comparison. added to that, i really cant see cryptic shooting their lobi
earnings in the collectors.
Many of which I probably have equipped already. Or at least, I've got the ones that are useful for my build.
I'd rather have an extra console than, say, an extra ensign. But I'd rather have an extra lieutenant or lieutenant commander slot than an extra console.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Not to mention set bonuses. You can cram more sets in with 11 consoles. I've felt constrained by 10 consoles for a long time now. 11 consoles, here we come. >:}
Joined January 2009
They have to find the sweet spot where people are willing to pay money again for a ship they already bought (or bought twice for fleet!) to still be sub-par to the newer ships.
Having the unlock be account-wide is NOT Cryptic being nice since they know most people use a different ship on every character. It's a little slab of BS they thew at players.
It needs to be dirt cheap ($2) or simply a payment of dilithium.
And on top of that, you have to pay $5-$10 for your ship to upgrade unless it's lockbox/lobi/promotion, even if you already paid for an upgrade through fleet modules.
So we could be paying as much as $40 (C-store+Fleet Module+T5u upgrade) to get a 'end-game' ship total, and still not be able to benefit from traits (unless you buy a T6 ship and level it up first) or from these new boffs and their powers.
This seems pretty awful to me.
Im still worried about my LB ships, i think that the unique stuff that comes with them will hopefully make them equal to T6. Would hate to see my Recluse go bye bye.
Im happy cryptic finally released this info though, it crushed some speculation and confirmed others, I was really hoping the upgrades would not cost zen but that was just wishful thinking.
In the end though, i will be able to upgrade my fleet and LB ships for free, so I suppose I will live without my mirror ships and my free ambassador.
edit: Wish they would not do the "price will be way lower if you buy this and that, but you still gotta pay for the upgrade in the end anyway" thing. Why cant they set a solid price, say 500-1000 zen per ship or couple ships. I see what their doing here, trying to get people to buy T6, but if the zen price is way to high, Im not sure i will buy any upgrade or T6 ship.
This is fair.
this for sure
13th seat... they must have meant power/ability. Our ships today have at most what? 5 seats?
As to consoles, there are some darn nice ones avaliable in the exchange.
Tell me, what about the people who bought the 2000-2500 zen ship, without buying the fleet upgrade? Are they going to have to pay for the fleet upgrade, then the T5U upgrade? Or do they get away with spending less? If the fee to upgrade is 500, I've just lost out, after my fleet put in the time and effort to gain the ability to receive what, after this system takes effect, is an inferior ship. Is that anywhere near remotely rewarding to the fleet that sunk all that time and dilithium into their base? Not in the slightest.
If you're content paying 3 times for the same ship, where does the line get drawn? 4 times? 5? 10? Or do you just keep letting them charge you for something you already have?
But I'm concerned about after you buy the upgrade. Will I have to level up that ship on each character, or will I only have to level up 1 ship on a single character?
I don't like the thought of having such a grind to where I would need to spend time leveling up a Fleet Avenger, for example, on multiple characters. I think leveling up ships you've bought T5U upgrades for should be an account wide permanent increase as well. Otherwise it's just another per-character reputation-like system.
By looking at the chart that tells us this.
Dec/2008