This is my sentiment as well...I don't mind them charging zen to upgrade my current ships, but it bothers me that they will still suck compared to the T6 ships even after being upgraded. That doesn't sit well with me at all.
Honestly, I'm confused by this sentiment.
Based on what they've told us between the two blogs; I'm having a hard time seeing any reason so far to get a T6 ship...because with the information they've provided us so far...they suck in comparison to the T5-U11 ships.
We don't know what rank that additional BOFF ability will be...in exchange for -1 console, -10% hull, -10% shields. We don't know what the Specialist BOFF abilities will be and if they're going to be worth trading a normal BOFF ability for in that hybrid seat. We don't know what the unlocked Starship Traits will be in comparison to the Starship Traits available elsewhere.
Until they give us that information...well, the T6 ships are looking pretty damn lackluster compared to the T5-U11 ships.
As a closed beta player and life time player I say if we there's to be a Zen cost, keep it small. Say no more than 500 Zen to upgrade. Next, make sure that we get all five levels of the mastery and the trait. Then we will have competitive ships.
I believe it is an extra power, not necessarily seat. So the total number of Boff powers will be one extra, but the Odyssey will have an extra console. That's how I read it at least.
Some of the statements from devs in this thread describe it as "the 13th bridge officer seat."
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
If it was 1 ship, then I wouldn't mind. But when I'm staring at having to upgrade over 50 ships in my inventory, at 500 to 1500 Zen a ship, for an upgrade that inferior to Tier 6 ships, I get a really sour feeling in my stomach.
And because of that, right now, I have nothing but contempt towards PWE and the Cryptic team.
Until they give us that information...well, the T6 ships are looking pretty damn lackluster compared to the T5-U11 ships.
as it stands at the moment im inclined to agree.. T6 ships do seem more shine than
substance in comparison. added to that, i really cant see cryptic shooting their lobi
earnings in the collectors.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
Many of which I probably have equipped already. Or at least, I've got the ones that are useful for my build.
I'd rather have an extra console than, say, an extra ensign. But I'd rather have an extra lieutenant or lieutenant commander slot than an extra console.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
Not to mention set bonuses. You can cram more sets in with 11 consoles. I've felt constrained by 10 consoles for a long time now. 11 consoles, here we come. >:}
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
what is the general feeling about paying zen to upgrade your ship i am lucky in that most of my ships are lobi ships or lock box ships but for those people who have to pay zen to upgrade there ships i dont think will be to happy
how about you guys will you pay to upgrade your ship or not and do you feel cyrptic are being unfair
They have to find the sweet spot where people are willing to pay money again for a ship they already bought (or bought twice for fleet!) to still be sub-par to the newer ships.
Having the unlock be account-wide is NOT Cryptic being nice since they know most people use a different ship on every character. It's a little slab of BS they thew at players.
It needs to be dirt cheap ($2) or simply a payment of dilithium.
So None of the pre-existing ships will be able to achieve 'true' T6 and can only reach T5u. No canon ships will be able to benefit fully from the T6 benefits. The [redacted] boffs will be useless on T5u ships since they can't use their special abilities (so if you intend on using old ships, these new boffs might as well not exist). And no level 5 ship specialization on T5u means that if you want to use the T5u/T6 traits, you can't avoid piloting a T6 ship.
And on top of that, you have to pay $5-$10 for your ship to upgrade unless it's lockbox/lobi/promotion, even if you already paid for an upgrade through fleet modules.
So we could be paying as much as $40 (C-store+Fleet Module+T5u upgrade) to get a 'end-game' ship total, and still not be able to benefit from traits (unless you buy a T6 ship and level it up first) or from these new boffs and their powers.
The free ships from missions and the mirror ships are being left in the dirt, guess i gotta say goodbye to my mirror dhelan . good while it lasted
Im still worried about my LB ships, i think that the unique stuff that comes with them will hopefully make them equal to T6. Would hate to see my Recluse go bye bye.
Im happy cryptic finally released this info though, it crushed some speculation and confirmed others, I was really hoping the upgrades would not cost zen but that was just wishful thinking.
In the end though, i will be able to upgrade my fleet and LB ships for free, so I suppose I will live without my mirror ships and my free ambassador.
edit: Wish they would not do the "price will be way lower if you buy this and that, but you still gotta pay for the upgrade in the end anyway" thing. Why cant they set a solid price, say 500-1000 zen per ship or couple ships. I see what their doing here, trying to get people to buy T6, but if the zen price is way to high, Im not sure i will buy any upgrade or T6 ship.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
Some of the statements from devs in this thread describe it as "the 13th bridge officer seat."
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
13th seat... they must have meant power/ability. Our ships today have at most what? 5 seats?
As to consoles, there are some darn nice ones avaliable in the exchange.
I think it's flat out greedy and wrong. Say I paid for a Z-store ship. That's 2000-2500 zen, right there. $20-25 right out of the gate. Say I want a fleet variant. That's another 500 zen. So, we're up to 2500-3000 zen for that one ship. That's twice I have paid for a single item. Now, they want me to pay again?
Tell me, what about the people who bought the 2000-2500 zen ship, without buying the fleet upgrade? Are they going to have to pay for the fleet upgrade, then the T5U upgrade? Or do they get away with spending less? If the fee to upgrade is 500, I've just lost out, after my fleet put in the time and effort to gain the ability to receive what, after this system takes effect, is an inferior ship. Is that anywhere near remotely rewarding to the fleet that sunk all that time and dilithium into their base? Not in the slightest.
If you're content paying 3 times for the same ship, where does the line get drawn? 4 times? 5? 10? Or do you just keep letting them charge you for something you already have?
Pay once to permanently upgrade a T5 ship for all characters on your account. That's cool.
But I'm concerned about after you buy the upgrade. Will I have to level up that ship on each character, or will I only have to level up 1 ship on a single character?
I don't like the thought of having such a grind to where I would need to spend time leveling up a Fleet Avenger, for example, on multiple characters. I think leveling up ships you've bought T5U upgrades for should be an account wide permanent increase as well. Otherwise it's just another per-character reputation-like system.
its a sad day to see that we have spent all this time to build up a fleet so people can be able to get their fleet ships and now have to turn around to just to upgrade them to a t5-u ship. smirk and trendy please tell the devs not to do this, this is going to hurt everyone that has invested into their fleet. I do think this is going to hurt the people that have a small fleet. it hard enough to get people to invest in a fleet. and if this goes through people will be like why invest into a fleet! so please let the devs know what people have said. and by the way trendy and smirk thanks for doing a grat job. see you on the next live stream.
Cryptic/PWE, you are out of your minds. You expect me to pay to grind? and that all I've ground and paid for to mean nothing unless I pay more? I bought the Galaxy bundle and 2 fleet gal x's (for 2 different characters) the day BEFORE Delta Rising was announced. You, quite literally, made me waste my money and you expect me to pay more? Are you TRIBBLE? I'm not, goodbye.
Did it cost to upgrade from a 9 console ship to a 10 console Fleet ship?
So should it cost to upgrade from a T5 ship to a T5-U ship?
Why is it even a question? Like...duh...
because some of us are sick of paying for the same ship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..
another 5-10 dollars, per ship, per toon, which I have already purchased said ships in lower tiers for the console, than an upper teir, and then a fleet module for a fleet version, and now a t5-u, which isn't even worth it in my book..
im not happy with the upgrade.. honestly, I would much rather have lost something else, than access to the new boff seating.. I honestly only play canon vessels, as I do not like the cryptic vessels. further more, the two fed ships we have seen are hideous to boot. I have no need or want to get said t6 ships, so now I am being punished for not buying one by having a crappy t5-u version..
when I imagined how to properly balance canon vessels with the TRIBBLE t6 vessels coming out, I imagined that the teir 6 would have a very minor leg up on the t5 upgrades. literally like some sort of built in power, or something.. the proposed t6 still dwarfs the t5-u. but I should know better than to trust cryptic to not be greedy, and not try to strong arm and ruin the game for those of us who love star trek, and not the cryptic abomination that is sto.
I spent $300 dollars for the lifetime and $130 for the legacy of Romulus and not to mention several hundred dollars on C-store ships over the years and now all my ships are going to be NERF-ED if I don't spend more money on my teir 5 ships... look at the cost of these teir 5 ships 2500 zen a piece on most of them
i can understand not including all the new mechanics but for 5-10 dollars i should get all 5 mastery levels. I can deal if i don't get the special BOFF slot but we should at least get the mastery trait and extra console and BOFF skill slot come on.
- Starship Trait
- Additional BO ability
- Specialized BO seats
The above list seems like gamechangers for ships. (And is half the list of features -- not just "a few bells and whistles.")
If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but that will make T5Us obsolete from the start.
The lack of an additional BO ability is my only real problem.
$5 to $10 for a ship upgrade is reasonable. No having Specialist Boff seats is no big deal (especially if they can be slotted in the universal slots on many of the pay ships in the game). And starship traits...well you get them from maxing out the true T6 ships, and then applying them to your preferred T5U ship (and making Cryptic a bit of bank in the process).
But an additional Boff slot ONLY for T6...that's not a good idea; I mean, there 3 or four skills that would improve my build if I just had one more ensign Boff seat. So I'll say this. UNLESS the T5U includes this extra boff seating (or the extra boff seat is removed from T6), this is probably going to cause a fair bit of elitism/flaming in Elite PvE and in PvP.
EDIT:
So just re-read the blog for the third time in case I missed something, and I did. Apparently the boff ability will be build into the ship, based on the language in the blog. Which means no changing the power, and probably a 2 min cooldown. If that's the case, then really, I'm ok with all of this.
Pay for an upgrade? I won't like it but I'll do it sure. They're a business, they've gotta make a buck and I understand that.
Pay for an INFERIOR upgrade? No, wait. Seriously? Pay for substandard garbage? Give you my money for stuff I already know is weak junk? Oh, I rather think not.......
I'm sure this has been said, but I just want to register how I feel...
NO.... Just plain no.
I've already paid for the ships. I am NOT going to pay more money to upgrade them.
It should be an in-game currency to upgrade, not real money. Paying $20-$25 bucks for a ship once is enough. If the result was a T6 version that had ALL the bells and whistles, $5 might be worth it. As it stands I'd rather pay EC (You know, actually make it useful for something) or Dilithium.
because some of us are sick of paying for the same ship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..
another 5-10 dollars, per ship, per toon, which I have already purchased said ships in lower tiers for the console, than an upper teir, and then a fleet module for a fleet version, and now a t5-u, which isn't even worth it in my book..
im not happy with the upgrade.. honestly, I would much rather have lost something else, than access to the new boff seating.. I honestly only play canon vessels, as I do not like the cryptic vessels. further more, the two fed ships we have seen are hideous to boot. I have no need or want to get said t6 ships, so now I am being punished for not buying one by having a crappy t5-u version..
when I imagined how to properly balance canon vessels with the TRIBBLE t6 vessels coming out, I imagined that the teir 6 would have a very minor leg up on the t5 upgrades. literally like some sort of built in power, or something.. the proposed t6 still dwarfs the t5-u. but I should know better than to trust cryptic to not be greedy, and not try to strong arm and ruin the game for those of us who love star trek, and not the cryptic abomination that is sto.
cryptic just lost a customer.. peace out guys..
i feel you man, big fan of the galaxy and gal-x, in terms of in the shows, even if not T6, i may still fly them upgrade or not.
Okay, first of all thanks to LaughingTrendy for decrypting this Devblog so quickly.
Considering the content? Sorry it's not acceptable. I am not going to pay for upgrades that still leave my ship inferior, not even from my Zen stipend. One bridge officer power already is a huge difference, and the specialist officers and starship traits might be. If you are trying to sell me something you failed. T5-U is either just a band-aid to make our ships a bit better until we get frustrated and buy the new top tier or a cash grab before you rerelease the old T5 ships as T6 versions.
Going to have to agree with all of this.
If the upgrade to a ship that we've already paid for is an upgrade to a level that's less powerful than tier 6 in any way, it better be free. If we have to pay Zen for it, it better put our ships all the way up to a full tier 6 in every respect.
Comments
Honestly, I'm confused by this sentiment.
Based on what they've told us between the two blogs; I'm having a hard time seeing any reason so far to get a T6 ship...because with the information they've provided us so far...they suck in comparison to the T5-U11 ships.
We don't know what rank that additional BOFF ability will be...in exchange for -1 console, -10% hull, -10% shields. We don't know what the Specialist BOFF abilities will be and if they're going to be worth trading a normal BOFF ability for in that hybrid seat. We don't know what the unlocked Starship Traits will be in comparison to the Starship Traits available elsewhere.
Until they give us that information...well, the T6 ships are looking pretty damn lackluster compared to the T5-U11 ships.
Some of the statements from devs in this thread describe it as "the 13th bridge officer seat."
In the balancing game between a console and a boff slot, a boff slot will generally win. What's more valuable, carrying another ability, or carrying another neutronium? Consoles suffer diminishing returns, after all, so eventually more consoles become less useful.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Except for the universal consoles. Of which there are several extremely useful ones.
If I have the choice of a third (or fourth) copy of Tactical Team I or a console slot I can put plasmonic leech or whatnot into, I'll pick the console.
If it was 1 ship, then I wouldn't mind. But when I'm staring at having to upgrade over 50 ships in my inventory, at 500 to 1500 Zen a ship, for an upgrade that inferior to Tier 6 ships, I get a really sour feeling in my stomach.
And because of that, right now, I have nothing but contempt towards PWE and the Cryptic team.
as it stands at the moment im inclined to agree.. T6 ships do seem more shine than
substance in comparison. added to that, i really cant see cryptic shooting their lobi
earnings in the collectors.
Many of which I probably have equipped already. Or at least, I've got the ones that are useful for my build.
I'd rather have an extra console than, say, an extra ensign. But I'd rather have an extra lieutenant or lieutenant commander slot than an extra console.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Not to mention set bonuses. You can cram more sets in with 11 consoles. I've felt constrained by 10 consoles for a long time now. 11 consoles, here we come. >:}
Joined January 2009
They have to find the sweet spot where people are willing to pay money again for a ship they already bought (or bought twice for fleet!) to still be sub-par to the newer ships.
Having the unlock be account-wide is NOT Cryptic being nice since they know most people use a different ship on every character. It's a little slab of BS they thew at players.
It needs to be dirt cheap ($2) or simply a payment of dilithium.
And on top of that, you have to pay $5-$10 for your ship to upgrade unless it's lockbox/lobi/promotion, even if you already paid for an upgrade through fleet modules.
So we could be paying as much as $40 (C-store+Fleet Module+T5u upgrade) to get a 'end-game' ship total, and still not be able to benefit from traits (unless you buy a T6 ship and level it up first) or from these new boffs and their powers.
This seems pretty awful to me.
Im still worried about my LB ships, i think that the unique stuff that comes with them will hopefully make them equal to T6. Would hate to see my Recluse go bye bye.
Im happy cryptic finally released this info though, it crushed some speculation and confirmed others, I was really hoping the upgrades would not cost zen but that was just wishful thinking.
In the end though, i will be able to upgrade my fleet and LB ships for free, so I suppose I will live without my mirror ships and my free ambassador.
edit: Wish they would not do the "price will be way lower if you buy this and that, but you still gotta pay for the upgrade in the end anyway" thing. Why cant they set a solid price, say 500-1000 zen per ship or couple ships. I see what their doing here, trying to get people to buy T6, but if the zen price is way to high, Im not sure i will buy any upgrade or T6 ship.
This is fair.
this for sure
13th seat... they must have meant power/ability. Our ships today have at most what? 5 seats?
As to consoles, there are some darn nice ones avaliable in the exchange.
Tell me, what about the people who bought the 2000-2500 zen ship, without buying the fleet upgrade? Are they going to have to pay for the fleet upgrade, then the T5U upgrade? Or do they get away with spending less? If the fee to upgrade is 500, I've just lost out, after my fleet put in the time and effort to gain the ability to receive what, after this system takes effect, is an inferior ship. Is that anywhere near remotely rewarding to the fleet that sunk all that time and dilithium into their base? Not in the slightest.
If you're content paying 3 times for the same ship, where does the line get drawn? 4 times? 5? 10? Or do you just keep letting them charge you for something you already have?
But I'm concerned about after you buy the upgrade. Will I have to level up that ship on each character, or will I only have to level up 1 ship on a single character?
I don't like the thought of having such a grind to where I would need to spend time leveling up a Fleet Avenger, for example, on multiple characters. I think leveling up ships you've bought T5U upgrades for should be an account wide permanent increase as well. Otherwise it's just another per-character reputation-like system.
By looking at the chart that tells us this.
Dec/2008
@zeuxidemus001
because some of us are sick of paying for the same ship over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..
another 5-10 dollars, per ship, per toon, which I have already purchased said ships in lower tiers for the console, than an upper teir, and then a fleet module for a fleet version, and now a t5-u, which isn't even worth it in my book..
im not happy with the upgrade.. honestly, I would much rather have lost something else, than access to the new boff seating.. I honestly only play canon vessels, as I do not like the cryptic vessels. further more, the two fed ships we have seen are hideous to boot. I have no need or want to get said t6 ships, so now I am being punished for not buying one by having a crappy t5-u version..
when I imagined how to properly balance canon vessels with the TRIBBLE t6 vessels coming out, I imagined that the teir 6 would have a very minor leg up on the t5 upgrades. literally like some sort of built in power, or something.. the proposed t6 still dwarfs the t5-u. but I should know better than to trust cryptic to not be greedy, and not try to strong arm and ruin the game for those of us who love star trek, and not the cryptic abomination that is sto.
cryptic just lost a customer.. peace out guys..
I spent $300 dollars for the lifetime and $130 for the legacy of Romulus and not to mention several hundred dollars on C-store ships over the years and now all my ships are going to be NERF-ED if I don't spend more money on my teir 5 ships... look at the cost of these teir 5 ships 2500 zen a piece on most of them
i can understand not including all the new mechanics but for 5-10 dollars i should get all 5 mastery levels. I can deal if i don't get the special BOFF slot but we should at least get the mastery trait and extra console and BOFF skill slot come on.
I guess I'd like to know where this extra 13th boff power falls.
If it's an ensign-level power or even a lieutenant, the tradeoff between T5U ships and T6 ships seems a lot more even and a lot more palatable.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
The lack of an additional BO ability is my only real problem.
$5 to $10 for a ship upgrade is reasonable. No having Specialist Boff seats is no big deal (especially if they can be slotted in the universal slots on many of the pay ships in the game). And starship traits...well you get them from maxing out the true T6 ships, and then applying them to your preferred T5U ship (and making Cryptic a bit of bank in the process).
But an additional Boff slot ONLY for T6...that's not a good idea; I mean, there 3 or four skills that would improve my build if I just had one more ensign Boff seat. So I'll say this. UNLESS the T5U includes this extra boff seating (or the extra boff seat is removed from T6), this is probably going to cause a fair bit of elitism/flaming in Elite PvE and in PvP.
EDIT:
So just re-read the blog for the third time in case I missed something, and I did. Apparently the boff ability will be build into the ship, based on the language in the blog. Which means no changing the power, and probably a 2 min cooldown. If that's the case, then really, I'm ok with all of this.
Pay for an INFERIOR upgrade? No, wait. Seriously? Pay for substandard garbage? Give you my money for stuff I already know is weak junk? Oh, I rather think not.......
NO.... Just plain no.
I've already paid for the ships. I am NOT going to pay more money to upgrade them.
It should be an in-game currency to upgrade, not real money. Paying $20-$25 bucks for a ship once is enough. If the result was a T6 version that had ALL the bells and whistles, $5 might be worth it. As it stands I'd rather pay EC (You know, actually make it useful for something) or Dilithium.
i feel you man, big fan of the galaxy and gal-x, in terms of in the shows, even if not T6, i may still fly them upgrade or not.
Going to have to agree with all of this.
If the upgrade to a ship that we've already paid for is an upgrade to a level that's less powerful than tier 6 in any way, it better be free. If we have to pay Zen for it, it better put our ships all the way up to a full tier 6 in every respect.
Or if it's a universal ensign or a specific ensign. There aren't a lot of useful tactical ensign powers (of which we have let Cryptic know for years).
I'll take a Science Ensign or a Universal Ensign over a console. Depending on the layout of the ship.
But if it's a Lt. or Lt. Cmdr.? Yeah, I'll just go with the bridge officers and suffer with 10 consoles instead of 11.