The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Are you suggesting that T5-U ships have a console slot and more hit points than Tier 6 ships?
I am still doubtful that this could actually compensate for a single Ensign BO ability (especially if you have 4 different BO types to fill your slots from than 3). Base Hull and Shield Points are not that important in STO compared to all the healing you get from BO powers and sets.
And I think Iconian has a good idea with having 3-Ship and 9 ship sets being full Tier 6 already. They were very expensive investment. You can still only fly one of the 3 (or 9) at a time, and the differences between the ships are marginal, both in design and abilities. And these ships happen to be the flagships...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
so tier 5 ships need a $5 to $10 upgrade EACH to become almost half way tier 6, is this just all really an excuse to arbitrarily increase ship release prices by $5, $10, $15? im willing to bet i could complete ALL DR content in some old tier 3 ship if i felt like it, but thats not good enough for someone like me that pvps, i need to be running the best to be competitive there, i cant just blow off a whole new tier of ships if i want to keep playing.
...
these tier 5U ships aren't even getting more station powers? cant turn that ENS into a LT station? cant turn an LT into an LTC somewhere? cant even be bothered to make this upgrade WORTH $5 can you.
Fully agree with you. If T5-U (who comes up with such terms?) won't have any additional BOFF stations, they are heavy disadvantaged, no matter if they get the same hull increasement or not.
It's the BOFF laout people want, not some % more hull.
id be willing to pay $1 for a tier 5U ship, no more. being a long time player, a lifetime subscriber since open beta, a buyer of the legacy pack, a supporter with my wallet since the beginning only earns me an insane amount of things i need to pay to upgrade, for no reason other then you want to double the cost of entry at your cash store, double how much you need to pay to enjoy the game at the level you did befor DR. thats all DR really is, a desire for double profits. i really hope your greed here tanks the game once and for all. change course now, before your journey to the dark side is complete.
Sounds harsh but true...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
This scheme as written, it makes no sense for somebody to buy a c-store ship, buy a fleet module, and buy a T5-U upgrade module, because they are looking at $30-40 depending on c-store ship and upgrade pricing, and they still dont end up with T6 equivalent. Rational self-interest will stop them from doing it. Instead they will wait until a T6 ship is released that is desirable.
My suggestion: Upgrade all 10-console ships to T5-U for free, and sell upgrade modules that will upgrade an existing T5-U to full T6.
That will give people a reason to buy T5 fleet ships in the short-term, and also preserves the price-premium on T6 ships. It lets people buy something today while your T6 line is bare, and lets them look ahead to full T6 ships later.
Throw out the T5-U nonsense and just let players upgrade their T5 ships to T6. There should be a percentage based fee to upgrade any T5 ship to a T6 and it should be based on how much the T5 ship cost compared to the T6. Cryptic it is creating a new subclass of ships similar to how the current T5 ships are compared to the T5 fleet ships. Many players have spent much time, money, and effort to get their ships and T5-U is not good enough. For good or bad STO lets players create their own Star Trek experience and the ship that a players uses is part of that. By trying to move players to buy T6 ships that is breaking a part of the game.
While it is great that they are finally letting players level with their ships it is sad that they have ignored that as possibility since the beginning of the game. How much more fun could the game have been to play with your favorite ship from start to end. The T6 features should be applied to all the ships in the game.
By making the ships inferior to T6 for the new content, they essentially make even the upgraded versions of the ships less useful for the game as it moves forward. That includes ships people spent real money on. A lot of canon ships.
There's still not enough info on the new T6 ships to make that conclusion, so I will respectfully disagree for now.
Not monetized the upgrading system from the get-go. Or maintained the top tier as it stood and just made the new ships expanded side-grades. With those new bells and whistles available to, say, a fleet Defiant. Like the new BOFF seat.
While, I agree, I would love the new BOFF seat on my Defiant... and maybe that option will be available down the road... I'm not shocked by any of this. I have to pay for every major upgrade of a piece of software I've ever owned... not thrilled with the prospects, but not shocked.
And the news COULD be a lot worse...
It's sad. But hey, since we're also talking about things they've point blank said ... consider this ... they've point bland straight up said they care about NEW players. And a lot of decisions are being made to get new players. They have also danced around how they don't care about vet players. The longer YOU play this game, the less they need you or your money. They're not into retention. Just churn and burn.
I already know how that goes. You will eventually too.
Good luck.
Well, as we have discussed previously... my bar for this game must be significantly lower than yours. I'm looking for a game that I can shoot Borg in, not a Star Trek top-to-bottom simulator. This game is fun, but I'm sure I'll reach a point where I won't play anymore.
Gotta say, I'd prefer to hear that the fleet ship that required fleet modules would be free to upgrade.
This is how I feel.
New home of the Romulan Republic.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
Your under the mistaken impression that the engineers and programers are the ones who are making these choices. Nope, a bunch of men in suits generally do...or in the case of small studios, a guy in hipster clothing does. And you know what both these types generally care about? Next quarter's earning. Quiting won't help the situation. Not getting ZEN WILL. So if you want them to change, keep play...with your not upgraded ships. Don't get any of the T6 ships unless they are the canon ships you want. Keep playing is most important however. You playing costs them money. You quit, and it costs them NOTHING.
I'd bite the bullet for $25, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it. Probably shouldn't admit that...
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Good question. Here's the breakdown on Fleet ships. Right now, Fleet Ships offer +1 console slot, +10% Hull HP and +10% Shield HP over a standard T5 ship. If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
The short answer to your question is no. They will have 10% better shield and hull than the non-fleet T5-U variant and have +1 console slot.
I think you'll find this statement to not be true once Delta Rising goes live. A T5-U Lockbox/Lobi ships is still an incredibly powerful ship even compared to a T6 ship. Also, your first two points are the same thing. The 5th Starship Mastery level is just unlocking the starship trait.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
This really makes this Tier 6 upgrade business sound like a really bad deal.
Purchase Tier 5 ship = 2000 - 2500 Zen
Purchase Tier 5 Upgrade = 500 - 1000 Zen
Purchase Fleet Module = 500 Zen
So now for Tier 6 we have to basically fork over $40 PER SHIP? When Tier 6 ships are far superior?
Man no offense, but you guys just mega ripped us off!
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Good question. Here's the breakdown on Fleet ships. Right now, Fleet Ships offer +1 console slot, +10% Hull HP and +10% Shield HP over a standard T5 ship. If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
The short answer to your question is no. They will have 10% better shield and hull than the non-fleet T5-U variant and have +1 console slot.
I think you'll find this statement to not be true once Delta Rising goes live. A T5-U Lockbox/Lobi ships is still an incredibly powerful ship even compared to a T6 ship. Also, your first two points are the same thing. The 5th Starship Mastery level is just unlocking the starship trait.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
This post is huge from a PvP perspective. Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi starships won't get that extra bridge officer ability slot (i.e. Lt. to Lt. Commander) like the Tier VI ships, but Tier VI ships will only have 10 console slots. This means that upgraded Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi starships will have an extra console slot AND the Tier V-U extra console slot for 11 console slots. Thus Tier V-U ships will trade an extra bridge officer upgrade for an extra console slot. They also trade the ability to have unique bridge officer abilities for +10% hull/shields over Tier VI ships. Not perfect, but of interest to us.
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
why not just merge it with the new ones and give it a new name, like "upgrade-modules" f.e.. that would cover both kinds of upgrades, as a fleet ship is kind of an upgrade as well. even though it is a ship on it's own (that is covered by higher ammount of modules needed if one not owns the c-store-variant).
at least it would simplify things.
What are the starship type divisions? Escort, Cruiser, Science Vessel, Raider, Raptor, Battlecruiser and Warbird I'm assuming, but in addition to what else? Carrier, Destroyer, Dreadnought, Freighter...?
A lot of people seem to be forgetting that standard tier 5 only have 9 consoles, fleet/lockbox have ten. Standard tier 6 will have ten, whatever is the upgrade to tier 6 will have 11. Since everyone will want upgraded tier 6, just as everyone now wants fleet/lockbox, the actual ships people will be flying will have the same number of consoles as tier 5-U fleet/lockbox ships, AND an extra boff ability.
Cryptic made a gigantic TRIBBLE up with the introduction of the T5 Defiant having 2 Commander Slots.
Yeah, I think it is a valid concern about what exactly where they are going with the 'new ability'.
Either they are going back to built-in powers like the pre-console generation had or they are introducing a new 'slot'
It should also be wondered if they are going to mess around further by giving T6 ships universal stations for everyone or any OTHER special stat arrangements.
T6 with two defelctors, more device slots, built in hangers etc.
STO has made bank selling endless variations of ships with new layouts, consoles and abilities so it is beyond certain Cryptic already have the Tier 6.1...2...3...4 concepts on the drawing board.
How irritating will it be for someone that pays to upgrade their ship to T5U only for the T6.5 version being sold of their ship later ?
Your under the mistaken impression that the engineers and programers are the ones who are making these choices. Nope, a bunch of men in suits generally do...or in the case of small studios, a guy in hipster clothing does. And you know what both these types generally care about? Next quarter's earning. Quiting won't help the situation. Not getting ZEN WILL. So if you want them to change, keep play...with your not upgraded ships. Don't get any of the T6 ships unless they are the canon ships you want. Keep playing is most important however. You playing costs them money. You quit, and it costs them NOTHING.
Actually him quitting do cost them money, as existing players also contribute to their profit shares. Also in regards to programmers making big business decisions, ship lead designer I believe Gecko, has huge input on the way upgrades and how ship designs are going to be.
So its not just all guys in business suits making decisions here, as you assumed. Trust me, Gecko and company have much to do with this F$@k up than the guy in the suit running numbers.
This scheme as written, it makes no sense for somebody to buy a c-store ship, buy a fleet module, and buy a T5-U upgrade module, because they are looking at $30-40 depending on c-store ship and upgrade pricing, and they still dont end up with T6 equivalent. Rational self-interest will stop them from doing it.
I suggest you upgrade all 10-console ships to T5-U for free. That will give people a reason to buy T5 fleet ships in the short-term, but preserves the price-premium on T6 ships. It covers your gap.
You can also sell upgrade modules that take a T5-U to full T6.
This current plan is addled and deserves to fail.
What is to stop Cryptic from eventually making T6 ships obsolete? If Cryptic is will to make the T5, 5.5, and Fleet ships obsolete, I would not put it pass them to eventually make the T6 ships obsolete.
I now see "Star Trek: Online" as a very risky investment.
We could be having this same conversation within a few months or years.
The only thing that seems a little hinky to me is that free ships like the Breen and Risian ones get a free upgrade. But ships I paid for, like the Odyssey and Vesta, don't. The list here also has all the variants listed seperatly. So if I have two characters using different Odysseys (which I do), will I have to pay twice?
My alt army: K'ymara, Orion Engineer. Caedera of Borg, Liberated Borg Tactical, Elyza Vix, Joined Trill Scientist. Christina Bellona, Augmented Human Tactical. T'Lana, Vulcan Scientist. Arbol, Martian Tactical. Ayzer Bryn, Joined Trill Engineer. Hawke, Betazoid Scientist. Karna Valkras, Klingon Engineer. Beth Parker, Human Tactical Sarel, Romulan Engineer (Federation). Yazuri, Reman Scientist (KDF)
"Are we able to adapt our Universal bridge officer slots on currently existing Tier 5 ships to accommodate any of the new, yet-to-be-announced Bridge officer types?" '
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Uh, hey Phil? Although the T6 dev blog doesn't explicitly say that T6 ships have 11 consoles, it heavily implies that they do.
Tier 6 ships gain stat improvements that you would expect from a new tier of starship. These ships gain an additional console slot, an additional bridge officer ability slot, and a sizeable amount of additional hit points. A new feature of Tier 6 ships is that their hit points increase as the captain levels up.
The current "standard" for ships is 10 consoles, so to the player base "an additional console slot" means that T6 will have 11. If this isn't true that that blog needs to be changed immediately to make it perfectly clear that T6 ships only have 10 consoles.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Comments
Because money.
I am still doubtful that this could actually compensate for a single Ensign BO ability (especially if you have 4 different BO types to fill your slots from than 3). Base Hull and Shield Points are not that important in STO compared to all the healing you get from BO powers and sets.
And I think Iconian has a good idea with having 3-Ship and 9 ship sets being full Tier 6 already. They were very expensive investment. You can still only fly one of the 3 (or 9) at a time, and the differences between the ships are marginal, both in design and abilities. And these ships happen to be the flagships...
Only a bit more hull and a additional Console?
...
I like to agree with dontdrunkimshoot: Fully agree with you. If T5-U (who comes up with such terms?) won't have any additional BOFF stations, they are heavy disadvantaged, no matter if they get the same hull increasement or not.
It's the BOFF laout people want, not some % more hull.
Sounds harsh but true...
I don't agree with you often, but on this particular topic, I do.
My suggestion: Upgrade all 10-console ships to T5-U for free, and sell upgrade modules that will upgrade an existing T5-U to full T6.
That will give people a reason to buy T5 fleet ships in the short-term, and also preserves the price-premium on T6 ships. It lets people buy something today while your T6 line is bare, and lets them look ahead to full T6 ships later.
Yes, and they could make more money if the popular ships were available as full Tier 6 in the C-store.
While it is great that they are finally letting players level with their ships it is sad that they have ignored that as possibility since the beginning of the game. How much more fun could the game have been to play with your favorite ship from start to end. The T6 features should be applied to all the ships in the game.
There's still not enough info on the new T6 ships to make that conclusion, so I will respectfully disagree for now.
While, I agree, I would love the new BOFF seat on my Defiant... and maybe that option will be available down the road... I'm not shocked by any of this. I have to pay for every major upgrade of a piece of software I've ever owned... not thrilled with the prospects, but not shocked.
And the news COULD be a lot worse...
Well, as we have discussed previously... my bar for this game must be significantly lower than yours. I'm looking for a game that I can shoot Borg in, not a Star Trek top-to-bottom simulator. This game is fun, but I'm sure I'll reach a point where I won't play anymore.
Okay by me.
This is how I feel.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
well i am intrigued
Completely agreed, seeing as how some fleet ships require all of 4 fleet ship modules per character, and cannot be discounted.
I'd bite the bullet for $25, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it. Probably shouldn't admit that...
This really makes this Tier 6 upgrade business sound like a really bad deal.
Purchase Tier 5 ship = 2000 - 2500 Zen
Purchase Tier 5 Upgrade = 500 - 1000 Zen
Purchase Fleet Module = 500 Zen
So now for Tier 6 we have to basically fork over $40 PER SHIP? When Tier 6 ships are far superior?
Man no offense, but you guys just mega ripped us off!
This post is huge from a PvP perspective. Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi starships won't get that extra bridge officer ability slot (i.e. Lt. to Lt. Commander) like the Tier VI ships, but Tier VI ships will only have 10 console slots. This means that upgraded Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi starships will have an extra console slot AND the Tier V-U extra console slot for 11 console slots. Thus Tier V-U ships will trade an extra bridge officer upgrade for an extra console slot. They also trade the ability to have unique bridge officer abilities for +10% hull/shields over Tier VI ships. Not perfect, but of interest to us.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
why not just merge it with the new ones and give it a new name, like "upgrade-modules" f.e.. that would cover both kinds of upgrades, as a fleet ship is kind of an upgrade as well. even though it is a ship on it's own (that is covered by higher ammount of modules needed if one not owns the c-store-variant).
at least it would simplify things.
What are the starship type divisions? Escort, Cruiser, Science Vessel, Raider, Raptor, Battlecruiser and Warbird I'm assuming, but in addition to what else? Carrier, Destroyer, Dreadnought, Freighter...?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Yeah, I think it is a valid concern about what exactly where they are going with the 'new ability'.
Either they are going back to built-in powers like the pre-console generation had or they are introducing a new 'slot'
It should also be wondered if they are going to mess around further by giving T6 ships universal stations for everyone or any OTHER special stat arrangements.
T6 with two defelctors, more device slots, built in hangers etc.
STO has made bank selling endless variations of ships with new layouts, consoles and abilities so it is beyond certain Cryptic already have the Tier 6.1...2...3...4 concepts on the drawing board.
How irritating will it be for someone that pays to upgrade their ship to T5U only for the T6.5 version being sold of their ship later ?
Actually him quitting do cost them money, as existing players also contribute to their profit shares. Also in regards to programmers making big business decisions, ship lead designer I believe Gecko, has huge input on the way upgrades and how ship designs are going to be.
So its not just all guys in business suits making decisions here, as you assumed. Trust me, Gecko and company have much to do with this F$@k up than the guy in the suit running numbers.
Agreed, especially re. the Odyssey. This ship is the flagship of the Federation. It should be a full T6 ship.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I now see "Star Trek: Online" as a very risky investment.
We could be having this same conversation within a few months or years.
Why bother?
K'ymara, Orion Engineer. Caedera of Borg, Liberated Borg Tactical, Elyza Vix, Joined Trill Scientist. Christina Bellona, Augmented Human Tactical.
T'Lana, Vulcan Scientist. Arbol, Martian Tactical. Ayzer Bryn, Joined Trill Engineer. Hawke, Betazoid Scientist. Karna Valkras, Klingon Engineer. Beth Parker, Human Tactical
Sarel, Romulan Engineer (Federation). Yazuri, Reman Scientist (KDF)
"Are we able to adapt our Universal bridge officer slots on currently existing Tier 5 ships to accommodate any of the new, yet-to-be-announced Bridge officer types?" '
STO Screenshot Archive
Uh, hey Phil? Although the T6 dev blog doesn't explicitly say that T6 ships have 11 consoles, it heavily implies that they do.
The current "standard" for ships is 10 consoles, so to the player base "an additional console slot" means that T6 will have 11. If this isn't true that that blog needs to be changed immediately to make it perfectly clear that T6 ships only have 10 consoles.
Joined January 2009
Purchase Tier 5 ship: 2000 - 2500 Zen
Purchase Upgrade to Tier 5U: 500 to 1000 Zen
Purchase Fleet Module for Fleet Tier 5U: 500 Zen
So pretty much we went from paying $20 for Tier 5 ships to.......... $40, pretty much what we pay for with 3-pack ships.
And we are to do this for EVERY SHIP WE OWN!? And for ships that are subpar to Tier 6 ships? THIS IS NOW CONFIRMED - A BAD DEAL!