I am pleased to read about the upgrading process. Now actually Lifers can benefit from this as we dont have to pay for the upgrades as we get a monthly stipend.
I am glad I am not forced to use one of the T6 ships because I dont like the designs that are revealed so far.
Now a question to the general upset mob. Did you really think they fork everything out for free on a Free2play game? I dont recall a single game doing this. Especially when newer and higher gear / stuff is coming out.
Why arent you guys happy that you can upgrade your ships? Its better then "Well here is the new levelcap please go buy new ships"
Not all the T6 ships will have this BOFF ability, it said so in yesterdays blog.
So they're probably not that powerful.
Not all of them will have the new special boff slots, but they will have one extra slot of some kind over tier 5-U, it'll just be a tac/eng/sci rather than the new variant.
So it just occurred to me, I HAD assumed, perhaps naively, that there will be a free tier six level up ship just as we get for all the lower tiers, but seeing how you seem to want so hard for us to pay for tier 6 ships by rendering all our current ones obsolete, I assume all tier ships will be in the c-store, correct?
i like what i read , xcept we gotta repurchase ships to get upgraded. i really hope it's only like 500 zen max per ship, just like c-store -> fleet ships.
is there a discount for upgrades if you own both versions (c-store and fleet-version), just as with fleet ships if you own the c-store version?
and i really hope those special-boff-seating ships are VERY specialized. otherwise they gonna rule the game lol.
Yeah... Personally, I find that having to spend ZEN to upgrade to endgame is kind of stupid, especially since if you have any kind of Tier 5 ship (especially Fleet versions of already-T5 ships) you've already done that. Possibly twice. Regardless, at least we kind of know how it works now. And if upgrading is only 500-ish ZEN, then it shouldn't be too hard to get said upgrade with Dilithium instead.
It isn't the doom and gloom people were saying it is. But it's kind of a hard pill to swallow.
You have $50 3-pack ships. You have that extremely expensive Dyson 9-pack you released semi-recently.
But you want to push us to upgrade our ships on a per-ship basis, regardless of whether or not it's account wide? After already spending $50 on a 3-pack that was pitched as being the most advanced/powerful/whatever already?
This is where I start to sound entitled, because I do understand Cryptic has to make money, and I'm not opposed to giving them money, either. But I think that's asking a bit much for a $5-$10 fee to bring something nearly to the same level of a T6 ship.
Part of the reason people spend Zen/Fleet Modules on ships is that they're the best help a player can get. If you make this T5-U push, then you kind of invalidate that line of thinking. I've always felt the game was pay4convenience, not pay2win. But with this latest dev blog, I can most definately see a slant towards pay2win, and not pay4convenience.
If you want some constructive feedback? Here you go.
I'm okay with paying Zen, or an equivelant amount of ECs for a fleet module-type device that will upgrade a particular line of ships.
For instance, an Escort Upgrade Module where I can spend $5-10 dollars to upgrade all escorts on my account to T5-U status. Or a Cruiser Upgrade Module, or Science Upgrade Module. Carrier Upgrade Module, Raider Upgrade Module, Destroyer Upgrade Module, whatever.
Furthermore, I think all ships sold in a pack should be given a straight upgrade to T6 (not T5-U) for free. We paid enough money for them as it is. You're going to sell more of the packs anyway as of Delta Rising with players who weren't convinced they wanted to buy them prior to Delta Rising launch.
There's no point in nickel-and-diming players who sprung for the ship packs in the c-store for that kind of money. Just give them a T6 upgrade for free and having an additional selling point for the packs. I bet you'll sell far more Dyson Ship 9-Packs by advertising they're going to be T6 than you would by saying for just $5-$10 more you'll get a T5-U version of them.
Something to think about.
Also, I echo sentiments that the difference between T5-U and T6 is not as insignifigant as originally pitched. Bridge officer abilities make or break ships. The addition/subtraction of one can make a world of difference.
Also, I'm probably asking for a lot -- but how about you just ditch the T5-U aspect entirely and make an upgrade system to straight up T6? It gets rid of a lot of confusion and lets you make finer adjustments which results in a clear pathway to selling more ships.
Not all of them will have the new special boff slots, but they will have one extra slot of some kind over tier 5-U, it'll just be a tac/eng/sci rather than the new variant.
Because it says we pay for upgrades to Fleet ships too. So we just paying for an upgrade to unlock the traits, while the rest of our C-store ships get the bonus of the added console?
Doesn't seem right to me, especially since we already paid 500 Zen or more for these Fleet ships.
Nope you are paying for scaling HP, 1 more console slot and 4 out of 5 ship skills that can be uesd.
That's it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Welp. I'm out. After grinding a starbase and waiting two years for them to finally add a Fleet Gal-X only to make it cost EVEN MORE MONEY and time less than five months later.... yah no. This relationship isn't healthy.
wow, it sure is good this is all subject to change :rolleyes:
Q: What actions give skill points to increase my Starship Mastery level?
A: Only defeating enemy starships will yield skill points for your Starship Mastery.
will that include enemy player starships in pvp?
is there supposed to be a difference between a tier 5U ship and a tier 5U fleet ship? will the fleet have an 11th console, 10% more hitpoints, and its universal station that the non fleet wont have?
so tier 5 ships need a $5 to $10 upgrade EACH to become almost half way tier 6, is this just all really an excuse to arbitrarily increase ship release prices by $5, $10, $15? im willing to bet i could complete ALL DR content in some old tier 3 ship if i felt like it, but thats not good enough for someone like me that pvps, i need to be running the best to be competitive there, i cant just blow off a whole new tier of ships if i want to keep playing.
im sure we can look forward to proper tier 6 ships costing a whole hell of a lot more then the $20 to $25 tier 5 ships cost now. now all your new releases can be just SO totally justified to cost $35 to $40! how do you sleep at night? this excitement at this new level of profits these suckers will provide you with, is what being evil feels like.
i just did a count of all my ships that wont get a free upgrade, if it costs $5 each for them, i will need to fork over $130. if $10, $260. how dare you?
tier 6 is the bigest scam ive ever seen in my life, i bet your chinese masters were wide eyed when you told them of this crime your about to perpetrate on your playerbase. and thats just to make what i currently payed for competitive again, but it wont be really, these ships miss out on a trait, and all the goodies this intelligence officer TRIBBLE afford them. there being any difference between tier 5U and tier 6 is yet another bankrupt decision. these tier 5U ships aren't even getting more station powers? cant turn that ENS into a LT station? cant turn an LT into an LTC somewhere? cant even be bothered to make this upgrade WORTH $5 can you.
id be willing to pay $1 for a tier 5U ship, no more. being a long time player, a lifetime subscriber since open beta, a buyer of the legacy pack, a supporter with my wallet since the beginning only earns me an insane amount of things i need to pay to upgrade, for no reason other then you want to double the cost of entry at your cash store, double how much you need to pay to enjoy the game at the level you did befor DR. thats all DR really is, a desire for double profits. i really hope your greed here tanks the game once and for all. change course now, before your journey to the dark side is complete.
*applauds* Sadly, PWE doesn't care about anyone who disagrees with their plans to part people with their money.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
Unfortunately I acquired [Console - Universal - Full Time Job] and [Console - Universal - Commitments] and unlike the Cryptic's Chinese overlords, don't have all day to grind Dilithium.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
* seating for the new special hybrid boffs - ok fine, my lockbox ships have universal stations anyway
* ability to unlock ship traits - as long as these are not tied to the ship, and we can unlock them elsewhere and use them on the ship of our choice, no big deal, cosmetic
* an extra boff ability - well that instantly makes T5U obsolete NOT ACCEPTABLE :mad:
I feel sorry for everyone who bought the JHAS based on the representations of the last few weeks...
Yeah... Personally, I find that having to spend ZEN to upgrade to endgame is kind of stupid, especially since if you have any kind of Tier 5 ship (especially Fleet versions of already-T5 ships) you've already done that. Regardless, at least we kind of know how it works now. And if upgrading is only 500-ish ZEN, then it shouldn't be too hard to get said upgrade with Dilithium instead.
The company wont make any money off Dil to Zen Theres already bee a ton saying they are willing to pay 1000 zen to upgrade. From a business perspective if they willing to spend 1000 Im willing to bet they would even pay 1500...
This thread is a test. Hmmm what should we charge in the c-store to upgrade
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
I'm guessing we'll see ship traits in the lock boxes. Please consider adding more stuff to the C-store instead of putting all the new toys in the lock boxes as has been the trend. Al, I'd gladly buy something that I know I'm guaranteed to get but am not willing to spend my hard earned money for a "chance" to get it.
Try an experiment, put some ships traits in the C-store and see how they sell. If they sell well, consider continuing to expand your c-store offerings. If they bomb, move them back to the lock boxes. It's worth a try.
I've watched Neverwinter's c-store expand greatly with a huge variety of stuff, STO on the other hand has seen a huge shift towards lock boxes with only a small offering of things ie ships, added to our store.
So, even if paid to upgrade our ships, they are still obsolete! No extra BOFF, no expecial BOFF and no Starship trait.
Cryptic, you guys done it.. this has been the move with more greed that you ever done.
You do realize that you were never going to get every single ship in the game to have a free upgrade process? Having a transaction exchange was the only way that Cryptic could do to allow you to upgrade most of the ships (C-store ships). It's still amazing that people thought that they were going to get their ships upgraded with very little money exchanged.
For the 'Upgrade Item,' since it sounds like y'all haven't decided on the exact method, why not just use Fleet Ship Modules since they're already in the game and serve basically the same function? Would certainly simplify things.
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Nice with the free upgrades for specific ships, but WHY THE HELL should i ever be interested in lockbox ships again if these are vastly inferior to Tier 6 Ships?
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
So will fleet ships gain more bonuses from the upgrade than non-fleet versions?
Good question. Here's the breakdown on Fleet ships. Right now, Fleet Ships offer +1 console slot, +10% Hull HP and +10% Shield HP over a standard T5 ship. If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
The short answer to your question is no. They will have 10% better shield and hull than the non-fleet T5-U variant and have +1 console slot.
Compared to T6 Ships all upgraded Lockbox shipy are now Junk:
One less Mastery Level,
No Starship Trait
No additiional Bridge Officer abilities
No Specialist BO Seats
I think you'll find this statement to not be true once Delta Rising goes live. A T5-U Lockbox/Lobi ships is still an incredibly powerful ship even compared to a T6 ship. Also, your first two points are the same thing. The 5th Starship Mastery level is just unlocking the starship trait.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
They have to recoup their losses! A whole new expansion, lots of Voyager voice-actors. You think Neelix and Harry Kim and Tuvok came cheap? That isn't going to pay for itself!
HUmm.. I dont know.. maybe they should try what more successful MMOs have done: Improve the game, by doing so more players stay in your game and new players try it out and stay in your game spending money in thing that have some use!
Cryptic just ask for MORE money, on already expensive ships, to make them inferior to other ships that are ugly as hell!
I understand companys have to make money, but this is just pure and simple greed.
Slightly surprised, I'd thought that fleet upgraded c-store ships would have been upgradeable for free since there's additional cost/resources associated with the fleet system. Makes the whole fleet thing feel pointless to be honest. Though saying that, I do also find it funny how the "flagship" classes for all factions are now also obsolete.
Giving the Tier 5 Upgrade ships a Bridge Officer ability less is not a good idea. I think that will always make them second class citizens. Bridge Officer powers is the majority of the power level of a ship. You should really reconsider this aspect.
Not being able to access the new type of BO abilities may not be bad, depending on whether these powers are actually balanced against existing ones or not. If they are superior, it's obvious not having them makes your ship worse.
Not being able to unlock a trait but able to get traits elsewhere is not a problem.
Not being able to upgrade Mirror ships is disappointing. They are already second class Tier 5 ships.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'm not sure I want to spend real money on upgrading ships I've already paid for. The only analogy I can think of for something like this is buying a '1998 model car and having to buy parts for it to perform on par with a 2014 model. I guess it's the norm these days in games like this?
I may have to stockpile dilithium like crazy and trade it for zen. Good-bye, fleet projects that require dilithium!
I couldn't agree more I'd just like to add that you now have to level each ship individually under this regime, happy days for people with several ships on a character, and should you decide to get a new ship it's level 0.
All huge incentives to stay out of the entire upgrade part, stay on eSTF, stay in your ship and then totally ignore it all.
(yes pvp'ers are screwed)
I like my ships and they were expensive. I won't give up on any of them and you know a whole expansion revolving around 10 new levels with exactly 0 new animations for old ships?
Asking me to pay 10 $ for some extra hull HP cryptic, hilarious!
Then I compare this to all the free stuff that came out with LoR and fall out my chair like that guy from the PC master race signature
Unfortunately I acquired [Console - Universal - Full Time Job] and [Console - Universal - Commitments] and unlike the Cryptic's Chinese overlords, don't have all day to grind Dilithium.
Yeah.... No, that's just called [Console - Universal - Having Some Form of a Life] and I feel exaxctly the same. I have school, band practice, and need time for myself in general. Thankfully, I'm in no hurry to get the new stuff, I'll just let the Dil trickle in slowly as I randomly play STFs and things.
Comments
I am glad I am not forced to use one of the T6 ships because I dont like the designs that are revealed so far.
Now a question to the general upset mob. Did you really think they fork everything out for free on a Free2play game? I dont recall a single game doing this. Especially when newer and higher gear / stuff is coming out.
Why arent you guys happy that you can upgrade your ships? Its better then "Well here is the new levelcap please go buy new ships"
Star Trek Online Intro HD [3rd Fleet Anniversary]
Join Date: Jul 2009
Yep, that is what I read into it.
Right now, Fleet > normal T5 ships. Well, it sure sounds like Fleet T5-U > T5-U. The progression will likely be as follows:
T6 > Fleet T5-U > T5-U > Fleet T5 > T5
Because it'll cost me the price of a LTS to upgrade them all?
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Ultimately, this is trying to have your cake and eat it. What should be done is one of two things;
a.) All ships mentioned (and perhaps others) are upgradable to T5-U, for free.
or
b.) All ships mentioned are upgradable to T6, for a price.
Shouldn't be any other way. Pay to still be inferior is a joke.
Nah, man. Just grind Dilithium in the billions.
Not all of them will have the new special boff slots, but they will have one extra slot of some kind over tier 5-U, it'll just be a tac/eng/sci rather than the new variant.
So it just occurred to me, I HAD assumed, perhaps naively, that there will be a free tier six level up ship just as we get for all the lower tiers, but seeing how you seem to want so hard for us to pay for tier 6 ships by rendering all our current ones obsolete, I assume all tier ships will be in the c-store, correct?
Yeah... Personally, I find that having to spend ZEN to upgrade to endgame is kind of stupid, especially since if you have any kind of Tier 5 ship (especially Fleet versions of already-T5 ships) you've already done that. Possibly twice. Regardless, at least we kind of know how it works now. And if upgrading is only 500-ish ZEN, then it shouldn't be too hard to get said upgrade with Dilithium instead.
It isn't the doom and gloom people were saying it is. But it's kind of a hard pill to swallow.
You have $50 3-pack ships. You have that extremely expensive Dyson 9-pack you released semi-recently.
But you want to push us to upgrade our ships on a per-ship basis, regardless of whether or not it's account wide? After already spending $50 on a 3-pack that was pitched as being the most advanced/powerful/whatever already?
This is where I start to sound entitled, because I do understand Cryptic has to make money, and I'm not opposed to giving them money, either. But I think that's asking a bit much for a $5-$10 fee to bring something nearly to the same level of a T6 ship.
Part of the reason people spend Zen/Fleet Modules on ships is that they're the best help a player can get. If you make this T5-U push, then you kind of invalidate that line of thinking. I've always felt the game was pay4convenience, not pay2win. But with this latest dev blog, I can most definately see a slant towards pay2win, and not pay4convenience.
If you want some constructive feedback? Here you go.
I'm okay with paying Zen, or an equivelant amount of ECs for a fleet module-type device that will upgrade a particular line of ships.
For instance, an Escort Upgrade Module where I can spend $5-10 dollars to upgrade all escorts on my account to T5-U status. Or a Cruiser Upgrade Module, or Science Upgrade Module. Carrier Upgrade Module, Raider Upgrade Module, Destroyer Upgrade Module, whatever.
Furthermore, I think all ships sold in a pack should be given a straight upgrade to T6 (not T5-U) for free. We paid enough money for them as it is. You're going to sell more of the packs anyway as of Delta Rising with players who weren't convinced they wanted to buy them prior to Delta Rising launch.
There's no point in nickel-and-diming players who sprung for the ship packs in the c-store for that kind of money. Just give them a T6 upgrade for free and having an additional selling point for the packs. I bet you'll sell far more Dyson Ship 9-Packs by advertising they're going to be T6 than you would by saying for just $5-$10 more you'll get a T5-U version of them.
Something to think about.
Also, I echo sentiments that the difference between T5-U and T6 is not as insignifigant as originally pitched. Bridge officer abilities make or break ships. The addition/subtraction of one can make a world of difference.
Also, I'm probably asking for a lot -- but how about you just ditch the T5-U aspect entirely and make an upgrade system to straight up T6? It gets rid of a lot of confusion and lets you make finer adjustments which results in a clear pathway to selling more ships.
Yeah I missed that. My bad.
Nope you are paying for scaling HP, 1 more console slot and 4 out of 5 ship skills that can be uesd.
That's it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
*applauds* Sadly, PWE doesn't care about anyone who disagrees with their plans to part people with their money.
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Unfortunately I acquired [Console - Universal - Full Time Job] and [Console - Universal - Commitments] and unlike the Cryptic's Chinese overlords, don't have all day to grind Dilithium.
* seating for the new special hybrid boffs - ok fine, my lockbox ships have universal stations anyway
* ability to unlock ship traits - as long as these are not tied to the ship, and we can unlock them elsewhere and use them on the ship of our choice, no big deal, cosmetic
* an extra boff ability - well that instantly makes T5U obsolete NOT ACCEPTABLE :mad:
I feel sorry for everyone who bought the JHAS based on the representations of the last few weeks...
And will I have to pay again for a refit of a refit just to remain "competitive"?
Free upgrade t5 to T5-U
5-10$ T5-U to T6
Old T5 c store ships drop to 1500 Zen
New T6 ships 2500 Zen ,T6 3x pack 5000 Zen
anything less than this is just TRIBBLE.
The company wont make any money off Dil to Zen
This thread is a test.
Hmmm what should we charge in the c-store to upgrade
Kidding...
I'm guessing we'll see ship traits in the lock boxes. Please consider adding more stuff to the C-store instead of putting all the new toys in the lock boxes as has been the trend. Al, I'd gladly buy something that I know I'm guaranteed to get but am not willing to spend my hard earned money for a "chance" to get it.
Try an experiment, put some ships traits in the C-store and see how they sell. If they sell well, consider continuing to expand your c-store offerings. If they bomb, move them back to the lock boxes. It's worth a try.
I've watched Neverwinter's c-store expand greatly with a huge variety of stuff, STO on the other hand has seen a huge shift towards lock boxes with only a small offering of things ie ships, added to our store.
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Good question. Here's the breakdown on Fleet ships. Right now, Fleet Ships offer +1 console slot, +10% Hull HP and +10% Shield HP over a standard T5 ship. If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
The short answer to your question is no. They will have 10% better shield and hull than the non-fleet T5-U variant and have +1 console slot.
I think you'll find this statement to not be true once Delta Rising goes live. A T5-U Lockbox/Lobi ships is still an incredibly powerful ship even compared to a T6 ship. Also, your first two points are the same thing. The 5th Starship Mastery level is just unlocking the starship trait.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
HUmm.. I dont know.. maybe they should try what more successful MMOs have done: Improve the game, by doing so more players stay in your game and new players try it out and stay in your game spending money in thing that have some use!
Cryptic just ask for MORE money, on already expensive ships, to make them inferior to other ships that are ugly as hell!
I understand companys have to make money, but this is just pure and simple greed.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
I may have to stockpile dilithium like crazy and trade it for zen. Good-bye, fleet projects that require dilithium!
"No matter where you go...there you are."
All huge incentives to stay out of the entire upgrade part, stay on eSTF, stay in your ship and then totally ignore it all.
(yes pvp'ers are screwed)
I like my ships and they were expensive. I won't give up on any of them and you know a whole expansion revolving around 10 new levels with exactly 0 new animations for old ships?
Asking me to pay 10 $ for some extra hull HP cryptic, hilarious!
Then I compare this to all the free stuff that came out with LoR and fall out my chair like that guy from the PC master race signature
Yeah.... No, that's just called [Console - Universal - Having Some Form of a Life] and I feel exaxctly the same. I have school, band practice, and need time for myself in general. Thankfully, I'm in no hurry to get the new stuff, I'll just let the Dil trickle in slowly as I randomly play STFs and things.