It's sad. But hey, since we're also talking about things they've point blank said ... consider this ... they've point bland straight up said they care about NEW players. And a lot of decisions are being made to get new players. They have also danced around how they don't care about vet players. The longer YOU play this game, the less they need you or your money.
This is why computer engineers and computer programmers need to get a business degree of which I have both. Basic marketing, a new customer requires a lot more money to bring in and therefore takes more time to be profitable than an existing customers. Their first expansion brought in new customers, but they failed miserably in retaining most of them. This second one is angering their existing customers to the point of leaving the game.
There was no reason why they had to bulldoze all the player's canon ships, specially fleet ones, to hell. They:
1) Angered everyone who paid to get those
2) Angered fleets who did the very very long grind to tier 5
3) Made everyone wary of spending money on this game when they can blow up everything people have worked on getting to hell.
They haven't even addressed what will happen to lobi equipment, but the damage is already done. The worst bomb was to the people getting the JHAS. That made me lolz. Why spend all that hard earned lobi or EC when they're making it all obsolete?
My prediction, they'll get another bump up of new or people that quit for a while. They might even stay a bit longer thanks to them making the level grind to 60 harder, but in the end, they'll loose a lot of people again, not counting all the existing players to whom they basically said: "We don't care about you".
I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.
Ok, I have read MOST of the comments here and have NOT seen this asked....
...What about the ship going up for sale tomorrow? Is it gonna be T5-U upon claiming it, or will I have to "Upgrade" it in a few weeks? Because, that makes a big difference if I buy it tomorrow or not at all. And, here is why...
Well it's going to be T5 since it comes out tomorrow, which means it's very probably going to be T5-U.
The reason that question won't get answered? Because if they say it'll effetively be obselete in six weeks time, it'll hurt sales.
Speaking of the ship - stats blog? Don't we normally get one the day before a ship release?
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
Ah this got posted while I was typing, I feel a bit better. Question then becomes will there be fleet T6 ships?
* seating for the new special hybrid boffs - ok fine, my lockbox ships have universal stations anyway
* ability to unlock ship traits - as long as these are not tied to the ship, and we can unlock them elsewhere and use them on the ship of our choice, no big deal, cosmetic
* an extra boff ability - well that instantly makes T5U obsolete NOT ACCEPTABLE :mad:
I feel sorry for everyone who bought the JHAS based on the representations of the last few weeks...
This right here. The question is do these Tier 6 ships get 5 Boff seats +1 Special Boff seat or do they get 5 Boff seats and one of them just happens to be the Special Boff seat.
Now for the extra Boff ability this can be HUGE. if the extra ability is simply an Ensign seat/skill maybe not so much; however, if they turn a Lieutenant seat into a Lieutenant Commander, or God forbid two Commander seats!...pretty much game over for Tier 5-U.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Wait so how much money do I need to pay to upgrade my Elite fleet phasers mkXII to mkXIV if i need Zen to upgrade my ship? I guess 1$ per phaser? or more? And for other fleet mkXII items?
So 10$ for ship, 5$ (4 phaser arrays + 1 omni) 1$ for Torpedo, 2$ for 2 engi console, 4$ for 4 sci consoles, 4$ for 4 tac consoles= 26$ for one ship?
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
How can you say that T5-U are going to be the utter TRIBBLE of STO with just this little info? :rolleyes:
I agree they won't be straight on par with T6, but not to trash as well.
Not "being straight on par" is plenty enough to make the difference between killing and being killed in STO last time I checked.
Did you read the specifics? I don't know how you can't see what I'm saying if you did. And you're off on your quote. I didn't say that T5-U are going to be TRIBBLE. And it's not a little info. They gave us all the pertinent info, the only variable is that ship traits may be available in lox boxes for use on T5 ships.
T5-U will be fine for PvE I'm sure. But in PvP specifically I'm predicting that T6 will dominate. Mark my words. And lastly, why do people go around rolling their eyes at internet people? lol so annoying if you were in front of me you wouldn't do that. haha
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
This answer isn't clear.
You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?
When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.
That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
Devil's Advocate: If you (Cryptic) are willing to charge, for example, 500-1000 zen to upgrade a T5 ship to T5-U; why not simply charge 1000-2000 zen to upgrade from T5 to (full) T6?
People will still buy the new T6 ships, some do like the look of the ships; along with paying to upgrade their favorite T5 ship to (full) T6.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
...What about the ship going up for sale tomorrow? Is it gonna be T5-U upon claiming it, or will I have to "Upgrade" it in a few weeks? Because, that makes a big difference if I buy it tomorrow or not at all. And, here is why...
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
woah what?
So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?
Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
At the very least I do think you should make the three piece ship packs (oddy, scim etc) only need to be upgraded once for all the variants. It's already basically one ship for the price of two (or three, if for some reason you buy them separately), don't force us to pay to upgrade our one ship three times as well.
I was kind of a jerk about it in my last post, but will there be a free level up tier 6 ship or will they all be in the c-store? Please give us some good news this time.
So the TL;DR version of your post is: Serious PVP is pay2win or grindtillyourmad2win and this is good? This mentality (along with the current "anything goes" one) makes me sick.
I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.
It has already started. 1-2 weeks ago I bought an Adapted Destroyer to test it on Tribble for 125 millions. Now it's down to 95.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Yeah, it makes a big difference, specially if they don't address the whole aux2bat mess. Frankly, it seems like a single unique strong ability, but it's still 1 more than existing ships.
Subscribers should be allowed to upgrade all their ships for free.
Honestly, make subscriptions worth something more than a handful of tokens and a paltry stipend for once.
You know, like most MMO developers do.
I think the Flagships at least should get a chance to upgrade to full T6, or have a Fleet variant that is full T6. The Enterprise-F at least deserves to be one of the best ships in Starfleet.
I'm with this. I'm great with paying for an upgrade, but I really think the Bortasqu and the Odyssey should have Tier 6 versions in the C-store to reflect that the flagships are top of the line.
Sell both, with the T5U being less pricey and call the Tier 6 ones Refits or call the Tier 5U version Prototype maybe?
I want to know why the (Non-Fleet) Chimera is missing from the list. Oversight?
Other than that, I don't have a major heartburn with the T5-U plan, as long as the cost is $5 for an account-wide upgrade.
I am NOT spending another $30 to get upgrade rights on my entire Vesta 3-pack, especially if I'm not getting a starship trait or the extra BO/Specialist slot.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
After fully reading every word of the update (FYI there are a few ships that are duplicated multiple times in your upgrade lists at the bottom) this sounds mostly reasonable. Thank you Cryptic. (I don't say that often.) I do feel bad for anyone that prefers to fly any of the ineligible ships though.
Also, question for the devs: Will there ever be such a thing as a T6 or T5-U Shuttle? :P
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?
When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.
That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.
Lockbox ships get free upgrades to 5U. I bet their prices will go up.
Grumble.
Wait so how much money do I need to pay to upgrade my Elite fleet phasers mkXII to mkXIV if i need Zen to upgrade my ship? I guess 1$ per phaser? or more? And for other fleet mkXII items?
So 10$ for ship, 5$ (4 phaser arrays + 1 omni) 1$ for Torpedo, 2$ for 2 engi console, 4$ for 4 sci consoles, 4$ for 4 tac consoles= 26$ for one ship?
Weapons are upgraded using the Crafting System.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
And wait until we see the Fleet T6 Ships (with 11th console Slot).
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?
Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
According to the Devblogs it is wrong.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
What I hope Cryptic will reconsider is the deficiencies T5-U starships have compared to the T6.
I was really looking forward to an improved BOFF seating arrangement for my Defiant-R.
I want to explore lots of the new ships---that's part of the fun for me!---but I've had a favourite fleet starship for years, and I'm looking forward to taking *my* starship into battle in the Delta Quadrant. With these changes, I'll always feel like my favourite ship is a poorer choice, despite the thousands of Zen I've invested into it.
Cryptic, please make T5-U starships equal to T6 ships. We've spent a lot of money on these ships over the last 4 years. If you really get that, you'll understand that we don't want to be in a position choosing between state-of-the-art efficacy and our favourite vessels.
I understand your desire to make the new T6 starships feel special and attractive purchases, but this game is about so much more than the gear grind we're subjected to in other MMOs. STO is special because it allows us to live out the fantasy of the Star Trek universe! Allowing me to further enhance my Fleet Tac Escort Retrofit using the latest technologies Starfleet has to offer is part of that fantasy! It's like the rebirth of the Enterprise in the earlier movies. Please don't ask me to sacrifice that experience.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
Precisely. T-6 was described as being superior in terms of 'bells and whistles' (paraphrasing here) and to me, an 11th console slot is more 'bells and whistles' and a 13th BOFF ability is more 'meat and potatoes'.
Comments
This is why computer engineers and computer programmers need to get a business degree of which I have both. Basic marketing, a new customer requires a lot more money to bring in and therefore takes more time to be profitable than an existing customers. Their first expansion brought in new customers, but they failed miserably in retaining most of them. This second one is angering their existing customers to the point of leaving the game.
There was no reason why they had to bulldoze all the player's canon ships, specially fleet ones, to hell. They:
1) Angered everyone who paid to get those
2) Angered fleets who did the very very long grind to tier 5
3) Made everyone wary of spending money on this game when they can blow up everything people have worked on getting to hell.
They haven't even addressed what will happen to lobi equipment, but the damage is already done. The worst bomb was to the people getting the JHAS. That made me lolz. Why spend all that hard earned lobi or EC when they're making it all obsolete?
My prediction, they'll get another bump up of new or people that quit for a while. They might even stay a bit longer thanks to them making the level grind to 60 harder, but in the end, they'll loose a lot of people again, not counting all the existing players to whom they basically said: "We don't care about you".
Well it's going to be T5 since it comes out tomorrow, which means it's very probably going to be T5-U.
The reason that question won't get answered? Because if they say it'll effetively be obselete in six weeks time, it'll hurt sales.
Speaking of the ship - stats blog? Don't we normally get one the day before a ship release?
Ah this got posted while I was typing, I feel a bit better. Question then becomes will there be fleet T6 ships?
Greywolf Taskforce
This right here. The question is do these Tier 6 ships get 5 Boff seats +1 Special Boff seat or do they get 5 Boff seats and one of them just happens to be the Special Boff seat.
Now for the extra Boff ability this can be HUGE. if the extra ability is simply an Ensign seat/skill maybe not so much; however, if they turn a Lieutenant seat into a Lieutenant Commander, or God forbid two Commander seats!...pretty much game over for Tier 5-U.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
So 10$ for ship, 5$ (4 phaser arrays + 1 omni) 1$ for Torpedo, 2$ for 2 engi console, 4$ for 4 sci consoles, 4$ for 4 tac consoles= 26$ for one ship?
Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
Not "being straight on par" is plenty enough to make the difference between killing and being killed in STO last time I checked.
Did you read the specifics? I don't know how you can't see what I'm saying if you did. And you're off on your quote. I didn't say that T5-U are going to be TRIBBLE. And it's not a little info. They gave us all the pertinent info, the only variable is that ship traits may be available in lox boxes for use on T5 ships.
T5-U will be fine for PvE I'm sure. But in PvP specifically I'm predicting that T6 will dominate. Mark my words. And lastly, why do people go around rolling their eyes at internet people? lol so annoying if you were in front of me you wouldn't do that. haha
This answer isn't clear.
You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?
When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.
That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
STO Screenshot Archive
good news, much appreciated.
People will still buy the new T6 ships, some do like the look of the ships; along with paying to upgrade their favorite T5 ship to (full) T6.
No... because the upgrade system comes with X2.
woah what?
So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?
Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
I was kind of a jerk about it in my last post, but will there be a free level up tier 6 ship or will they all be in the c-store? Please give us some good news this time.
So the TL;DR version of your post is: Serious PVP is pay2win or grindtillyourmad2win and this is good? This mentality (along with the current "anything goes" one) makes me sick.
Should have given up on this much much sooner.
It has already started. 1-2 weeks ago I bought an Adapted Destroyer to test it on Tribble for 125 millions. Now it's down to 95.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Yeah, it makes a big difference, specially if they don't address the whole aux2bat mess. Frankly, it seems like a single unique strong ability, but it's still 1 more than existing ships.
Honestly, make subscriptions worth something more than a handful of tokens and a paltry stipend for once.
You know, like most MMO developers do.
I'm with this. I'm great with paying for an upgrade, but I really think the Bortasqu and the Odyssey should have Tier 6 versions in the C-store to reflect that the flagships are top of the line.
Sell both, with the T5U being less pricey and call the Tier 6 ones Refits or call the Tier 5U version Prototype maybe?
Other than that, I don't have a major heartburn with the T5-U plan, as long as the cost is $5 for an account-wide upgrade.
I am NOT spending another $30 to get upgrade rights on my entire Vesta 3-pack, especially if I'm not getting a starship trait or the extra BO/Specialist slot.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Also, question for the devs: Will there ever be such a thing as a T6 or T5-U Shuttle? :P
"Chimera Heavy Destroyer" first table, first column, at the bottom, free upgrade.
Joined January 2009
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Lockbox ships get free upgrades to 5U. I bet their prices will go up.
Grumble.
Weapons are upgraded using the Crafting System.
It's in the Lobi Store/Lockbox area of the ship list. Because reasons.
And wait until we see the Fleet T6 Ships (with 11th console Slot).
According to the Devblogs it is wrong.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
What I hope Cryptic will reconsider is the deficiencies T5-U starships have compared to the T6.
I was really looking forward to an improved BOFF seating arrangement for my Defiant-R.
I want to explore lots of the new ships---that's part of the fun for me!---but I've had a favourite fleet starship for years, and I'm looking forward to taking *my* starship into battle in the Delta Quadrant. With these changes, I'll always feel like my favourite ship is a poorer choice, despite the thousands of Zen I've invested into it.
Cryptic, please make T5-U starships equal to T6 ships. We've spent a lot of money on these ships over the last 4 years. If you really get that, you'll understand that we don't want to be in a position choosing between state-of-the-art efficacy and our favourite vessels.
I understand your desire to make the new T6 starships feel special and attractive purchases, but this game is about so much more than the gear grind we're subjected to in other MMOs. STO is special because it allows us to live out the fantasy of the Star Trek universe! Allowing me to further enhance my Fleet Tac Escort Retrofit using the latest technologies Starfleet has to offer is part of that fantasy! It's like the rebirth of the Enterprise in the earlier movies. Please don't ask me to sacrifice that experience.
That's kind of a loaded question, since any given T5 ship might not have an "equivalent" T6 version to compare it to.
Precisely. T-6 was described as being superior in terms of 'bells and whistles' (paraphrasing here) and to me, an 11th console slot is more 'bells and whistles' and a 13th BOFF ability is more 'meat and potatoes'.