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Tier 5 Starship Upgrades

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  • blahhdreyblahhdrey Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.


    Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
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  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.

    This answer isn't clear.

    You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?

    When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.

    That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
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  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. It’s something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.

    good news, much appreciated.
  • sohtohsohtoh Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Devil's Advocate: If you (Cryptic) are willing to charge, for example, 500-1000 zen to upgrade a T5 ship to T5-U; why not simply charge 1000-2000 zen to upgrade from T5 to (full) T6?

    People will still buy the new T6 ships, some do like the look of the ships; along with paying to upgrade their favorite T5 ship to (full) T6.
    "I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ...What about the ship going up for sale tomorrow? Is it gonna be T5-U upon claiming it, or will I have to "Upgrade" it in a few weeks? Because, that makes a big difference if I buy it tomorrow or not at all. And, here is why...

    No... because the upgrade system comes with X2.
  • neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.

    I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.

    Thanks,
    Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
    Cryptic Studios
    Systems Designer

    woah what?

    So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?

    Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
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  • captainmal3captainmal3 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    At the very least I do think you should make the three piece ship packs (oddy, scim etc) only need to be upgraded once for all the variants. It's already basically one ship for the price of two (or three, if for some reason you buy them separately), don't force us to pay to upgrade our one ship three times as well.


    I was kind of a jerk about it in my last post, but will there be a free level up tier 6 ship or will they all be in the c-store? Please give us some good news this time.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    karcorner wrote: »
    I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.

    It has already started. 1-2 weeks ago I bought an Adapted Destroyer to test it on Tribble for 125 millions. Now it's down to 95.
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  • schnirselschnirsel Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ...

    So the TL;DR version of your post is: Serious PVP is pay2win or grindtillyourmad2win and this is good? This mentality (along with the current "anything goes" one) makes me sick.

    Should have given up on this much much sooner.
    6pvmjHk.gif
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    An extra BOFF ability can make a big difference.

    Yeah, it makes a big difference, specially if they don't address the whole aux2bat mess. Frankly, it seems like a single unique strong ability, but it's still 1 more than existing ships.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Subscribers should be allowed to upgrade all their ships for free.
    Honestly, make subscriptions worth something more than a handful of tokens and a paltry stipend for once.
    You know, like most MMO developers do.
  • morchadesmorchades Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I think the Flagships at least should get a chance to upgrade to full T6, or have a Fleet variant that is full T6. The Enterprise-F at least deserves to be one of the best ships in Starfleet.

    I'm with this. I'm great with paying for an upgrade, but I really think the Bortasqu and the Odyssey should have Tier 6 versions in the C-store to reflect that the flagships are top of the line.

    Sell both, with the T5U being less pricey and call the Tier 6 ones Refits or call the Tier 5U version Prototype maybe?
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I want to know why the (Non-Fleet) Chimera is missing from the list. Oversight?

    Other than that, I don't have a major heartburn with the T5-U plan, as long as the cost is $5 for an account-wide upgrade.

    I am NOT spending another $30 to get upgrade rights on my entire Vesta 3-pack, especially if I'm not getting a starship trait or the extra BO/Specialist slot.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    After fully reading every word of the update (FYI there are a few ships that are duplicated multiple times in your upgrade lists at the bottom) this sounds mostly reasonable. Thank you Cryptic. :) (I don't say that often.) I do feel bad for anyone that prefers to fly any of the ineligible ships though. :(

    Also, question for the devs: Will there ever be such a thing as a T6 or T5-U Shuttle? :P

    bluegeek wrote: »
    I want to know why the (Non-Fleet) Chimera is missing from the list. Oversight?

    "Chimera Heavy Destroyer" first table, first column, at the bottom, free upgrade.

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  • quistraquistra Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    This answer isn't clear.

    You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?

    When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.

    That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?

    Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.

    So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
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  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    karcorner wrote: »
    I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.

    Lockbox ships get free upgrades to 5U. I bet their prices will go up.
    Grumble.
  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ragnar0x wrote: »
    Wait so how much money do I need to pay to upgrade my Elite fleet phasers mkXII to mkXIV if i need Zen to upgrade my ship? I guess 1$ per phaser? or more? And for other fleet mkXII items?

    So 10$ for ship, 5$ (4 phaser arrays + 1 omni) 1$ for Torpedo, 2$ for 2 engi console, 4$ for 4 sci consoles, 4$ for 4 tac consoles= 26$ for one ship?

    Weapons are upgraded using the Crafting System.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I want to know why the (Non-Fleet) Chimera is missing from the list. Oversight?

    It's in the Lobi Store/Lockbox area of the ship list. Because reasons.
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  • valenn1valenn1 Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    blahhdrey wrote: »
    Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.

    And wait until we see the Fleet T6 Ships (with 11th console Slot).
    Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
    unfortunately:

    NOT LOYAL ENOUGH!!!
  • edited August 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    neok182 wrote: »
    woah what?

    So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?

    Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.

    According to the Devblogs it is wrong.
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • caylenrcaylenr Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The $5-10 price doesn't bother me much.

    What I hope Cryptic will reconsider is the deficiencies T5-U starships have compared to the T6.

    I was really looking forward to an improved BOFF seating arrangement for my Defiant-R.

    I want to explore lots of the new ships---that's part of the fun for me!---but I've had a favourite fleet starship for years, and I'm looking forward to taking *my* starship into battle in the Delta Quadrant. With these changes, I'll always feel like my favourite ship is a poorer choice, despite the thousands of Zen I've invested into it.

    Cryptic, please make T5-U starships equal to T6 ships. We've spent a lot of money on these ships over the last 4 years. If you really get that, you'll understand that we don't want to be in a position choosing between state-of-the-art efficacy and our favourite vessels.

    I understand your desire to make the new T6 starships feel special and attractive purchases, but this game is about so much more than the gear grind we're subjected to in other MMOs. STO is special because it allows us to live out the fantasy of the Star Trek universe! Allowing me to further enhance my Fleet Tac Escort Retrofit using the latest technologies Starfleet has to offer is part of that fantasy! It's like the rebirth of the Enterprise in the earlier movies. Please don't ask me to sacrifice that experience.
  • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    This answer isn't clear.

    You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?

    When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.

    That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?

    That's kind of a loaded question, since any given T5 ship might not have an "equivalent" T6 version to compare it to.
    You're right. The work here is very important.
    tacofangs wrote: »
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  • blahhdreyblahhdrey Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    quistra wrote: »
    Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.

    So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.

    Precisely. T-6 was described as being superior in terms of 'bells and whistles' (paraphrasing here) and to me, an 11th console slot is more 'bells and whistles' and a 13th BOFF ability is more 'meat and potatoes'.
    dEpN3nB.png?1
  • drazziidrazzii Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valoreah wrote: »
    I'd be ok with having to buy a full Tier 6 version of my existing ships so long as there is at least some discount involved for already owning it. Kind of like how Fleet Ship Modules work.

    I just don't want to be stuck with some non-canon design is all. I started playing STO because I wanted to command my own crew on my favorite ships.

    100% agree. I might pay money to upgrade my CANON ship to full T6. I don't want a gimped CANON ship compared to a crappy-non-canon ship that gets full T6 abilities.
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    All existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.

    This right here made my day! Finally got some good beefy info that handled all our worries and fears.

    Now I can upgrade my other ships at a more easier pace on how I want.
    Enterprise%20C_zpsrdrf3v8d.jpg

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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    also, how can it be justified that the

    avenger
    mogh
    patrol refit
    vesta
    ar'Kif
    ha'feh
    ha'apax
    ha'nom
    all 3 scimitar
    all 3 odyssey
    all 3 bortas
    all 3 vet ships
    all 9 C store sci destroyers

    aren't upgradable to full tier 6, not just tier 5U? these are supposed to be the best, newest ships, no way should they miss a single tier 6 goodie
  • tcgrandpa#3038 tcgrandpa Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    quistra wrote: »
    Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.

    So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.

    yes I want my tuffli t5u!
  • grayfoxjamesgrayfoxjames Member Posts: 1,516 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    What if they were to make Tier 5 ship fully upgradable to Tier 6 for let's say $25 like it is basically for buying a new ship...how many would go for that?
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  • suavekssuaveks Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Some good and some bad information...

    First off - what's with the bridge officer abilities and seats? Does it mean that T6 will (for the most part) just have ACCESS to unique specialist boff seatings, or will they flat out have MORE boff seatings and skills in total? If it's the latter case, then that's some really bad info that basically makes the talk about "remaining competitive" a total BS.

    Second, what's the point of Fleet Ships at this point if both C-Store and Fleet Store ships will be upgrade'able to T5-U ? From the sounds of it you've basically just made Fleet Shipyard obsolete, as there will be absolutely no reason to buy Fleet ships, unless they don't have a C-Store equivalent. Is that the case, or will - for example - a T5-U Fleet D'deridex Retrofit be better than T5-U D'deridex Retrofit, just like it's the case now?

    Third - current Lock Box and Lobi ships are considered to be T5-U. Will future Lock Box ships also be T5 with an upgrade option, or will you continue your power creep-fest and you'll move to releasing pure T6 boxed ships?



    Again, you overcomplicate things unnecessarily, Cryptic...
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