Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
This answer isn't clear.
You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?
When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.
That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
Devil's Advocate: If you (Cryptic) are willing to charge, for example, 500-1000 zen to upgrade a T5 ship to T5-U; why not simply charge 1000-2000 zen to upgrade from T5 to (full) T6?
People will still buy the new T6 ships, some do like the look of the ships; along with paying to upgrade their favorite T5 ship to (full) T6.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
...What about the ship going up for sale tomorrow? Is it gonna be T5-U upon claiming it, or will I have to "Upgrade" it in a few weeks? Because, that makes a big difference if I buy it tomorrow or not at all. And, here is why...
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
woah what?
So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?
Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
At the very least I do think you should make the three piece ship packs (oddy, scim etc) only need to be upgraded once for all the variants. It's already basically one ship for the price of two (or three, if for some reason you buy them separately), don't force us to pay to upgrade our one ship three times as well.
I was kind of a jerk about it in my last post, but will there be a free level up tier 6 ship or will they all be in the c-store? Please give us some good news this time.
I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.
It has already started. 1-2 weeks ago I bought an Adapted Destroyer to test it on Tribble for 125 millions. Now it's down to 95.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
So the TL;DR version of your post is: Serious PVP is pay2win or grindtillyourmad2win and this is good? This mentality (along with the current "anything goes" one) makes me sick.
Yeah, it makes a big difference, specially if they don't address the whole aux2bat mess. Frankly, it seems like a single unique strong ability, but it's still 1 more than existing ships.
Subscribers should be allowed to upgrade all their ships for free.
Honestly, make subscriptions worth something more than a handful of tokens and a paltry stipend for once.
You know, like most MMO developers do.
I think the Flagships at least should get a chance to upgrade to full T6, or have a Fleet variant that is full T6. The Enterprise-F at least deserves to be one of the best ships in Starfleet.
I'm with this. I'm great with paying for an upgrade, but I really think the Bortasqu and the Odyssey should have Tier 6 versions in the C-store to reflect that the flagships are top of the line.
Sell both, with the T5U being less pricey and call the Tier 6 ones Refits or call the Tier 5U version Prototype maybe?
I want to know why the (Non-Fleet) Chimera is missing from the list. Oversight?
Other than that, I don't have a major heartburn with the T5-U plan, as long as the cost is $5 for an account-wide upgrade.
I am NOT spending another $30 to get upgrade rights on my entire Vesta 3-pack, especially if I'm not getting a starship trait or the extra BO/Specialist slot.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
After fully reading every word of the update (FYI there are a few ships that are duplicated multiple times in your upgrade lists at the bottom) this sounds mostly reasonable. Thank you Cryptic. (I don't say that often.) I do feel bad for anyone that prefers to fly any of the ineligible ships though.
Also, question for the devs: Will there ever be such a thing as a T6 or T5-U Shuttle? :P
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?
When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.
That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I think it is time to unload my lockbox ships as I fear the price will drop significantly or there will be no want for these ships anymore except for role players.
Lockbox ships get free upgrades to 5U. I bet their prices will go up.
Grumble.
Wait so how much money do I need to pay to upgrade my Elite fleet phasers mkXII to mkXIV if i need Zen to upgrade my ship? I guess 1$ per phaser? or more? And for other fleet mkXII items?
So 10$ for ship, 5$ (4 phaser arrays + 1 omni) 1$ for Torpedo, 2$ for 2 engi console, 4$ for 4 sci consoles, 4$ for 4 tac consoles= 26$ for one ship?
Weapons are upgraded using the Crafting System.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
And wait until we see the Fleet T6 Ships (with 11th console Slot).
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?
Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
According to the Devblogs it is wrong.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
What I hope Cryptic will reconsider is the deficiencies T5-U starships have compared to the T6.
I was really looking forward to an improved BOFF seating arrangement for my Defiant-R.
I want to explore lots of the new ships---that's part of the fun for me!---but I've had a favourite fleet starship for years, and I'm looking forward to taking *my* starship into battle in the Delta Quadrant. With these changes, I'll always feel like my favourite ship is a poorer choice, despite the thousands of Zen I've invested into it.
Cryptic, please make T5-U starships equal to T6 ships. We've spent a lot of money on these ships over the last 4 years. If you really get that, you'll understand that we don't want to be in a position choosing between state-of-the-art efficacy and our favourite vessels.
I understand your desire to make the new T6 starships feel special and attractive purchases, but this game is about so much more than the gear grind we're subjected to in other MMOs. STO is special because it allows us to live out the fantasy of the Star Trek universe! Allowing me to further enhance my Fleet Tac Escort Retrofit using the latest technologies Starfleet has to offer is part of that fantasy! It's like the rebirth of the Enterprise in the earlier movies. Please don't ask me to sacrifice that experience.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
Precisely. T-6 was described as being superior in terms of 'bells and whistles' (paraphrasing here) and to me, an 11th console slot is more 'bells and whistles' and a 13th BOFF ability is more 'meat and potatoes'.
I'd be ok with having to buy a full Tier 6 version of my existing ships so long as there is at least some discount involved for already owning it. Kind of like how Fleet Ship Modules work.
I just don't want to be stuck with some non-canon design is all. I started playing STO because I wanted to command my own crew on my favorite ships.
100% agree. I might pay money to upgrade my CANON ship to full T6. I don't want a gimped CANON ship compared to a crappy-non-canon ship that gets full T6 abilities.
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
What if they were to make Tier 5 ship fully upgradable to Tier 6 for let's say $25 like it is basically for buying a new ship...how many would go for that?
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
First off - what's with the bridge officer abilities and seats? Does it mean that T6 will (for the most part) just have ACCESS to unique specialist boff seatings, or will they flat out have MORE boff seatings and skills in total? If it's the latter case, then that's some really bad info that basically makes the talk about "remaining competitive" a total BS.
Second, what's the point of Fleet Ships at this point if both C-Store and Fleet Store ships will be upgrade'able to T5-U ? From the sounds of it you've basically just made Fleet Shipyard obsolete, as there will be absolutely no reason to buy Fleet ships, unless they don't have a C-Store equivalent. Is that the case, or will - for example - a T5-U Fleet D'deridex Retrofit be better than T5-U D'deridex Retrofit, just like it's the case now?
Third - current Lock Box and Lobi ships are considered to be T5-U. Will future Lock Box ships also be T5 with an upgrade option, or will you continue your power creep-fest and you'll move to releasing pure T6 boxed ships?
Again, you overcomplicate things unnecessarily, Cryptic...
Comments
Thanks for going into a bit more detail. The above still concerns me a bit though. IMO, an 11th console sounds more like 'bells and whistles' than a 13th bridge officer power. It's the additional bridge officer ability which puts the T-6 a step above T-5U, at least wth regards to PvP. Granted that is probably the intent as I know you've got to move T-6 ships, but I think it is a valid concern in any case.
This answer isn't clear.
You're saying that a L4 T5U ship will have more hull and shields than an equivalent L5 T6 ship?
When you say "standard T6" it implies there will be more powerful T6 variants. The comparison isn't fair.
That said, will there be T6 ships with 11 console slots?
STO Screenshot Archive
good news, much appreciated.
People will still buy the new T6 ships, some do like the look of the ships; along with paying to upgrade their favorite T5 ship to (full) T6.
No... because the upgrade system comes with X2.
woah what?
So T5-U ship that started with 10 consoles gets 11, but actual T6 ships only get 10?
Um, I kinda hope that's wrong. Granted that would balance things out and give a one up to the T5-U over T6 but it also would make me a little less interested in a T6 ship if i have more console space on my upgraded T5 which is cheaper, or free.
I was kind of a jerk about it in my last post, but will there be a free level up tier 6 ship or will they all be in the c-store? Please give us some good news this time.
It has already started. 1-2 weeks ago I bought an Adapted Destroyer to test it on Tribble for 125 millions. Now it's down to 95.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
So the TL;DR version of your post is: Serious PVP is pay2win or grindtillyourmad2win and this is good? This mentality (along with the current "anything goes" one) makes me sick.
Should have given up on this much much sooner.
Yeah, it makes a big difference, specially if they don't address the whole aux2bat mess. Frankly, it seems like a single unique strong ability, but it's still 1 more than existing ships.
Honestly, make subscriptions worth something more than a handful of tokens and a paltry stipend for once.
You know, like most MMO developers do.
I'm with this. I'm great with paying for an upgrade, but I really think the Bortasqu and the Odyssey should have Tier 6 versions in the C-store to reflect that the flagships are top of the line.
Sell both, with the T5U being less pricey and call the Tier 6 ones Refits or call the Tier 5U version Prototype maybe?
Other than that, I don't have a major heartburn with the T5-U plan, as long as the cost is $5 for an account-wide upgrade.
I am NOT spending another $30 to get upgrade rights on my entire Vesta 3-pack, especially if I'm not getting a starship trait or the extra BO/Specialist slot.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Also, question for the devs: Will there ever be such a thing as a T6 or T5-U Shuttle? :P
"Chimera Heavy Destroyer" first table, first column, at the bottom, free upgrade.
Joined January 2009
Yeah, I was under the impression all T6 ships would have 11 console slots, too.
So the tradeoff is that upgraded fleet and 10-console ships will trade an extra boff slot for an extra console slot? I am not sure that is a fair trade, given how powerful boff slots are.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Lockbox ships get free upgrades to 5U. I bet their prices will go up.
Grumble.
Weapons are upgraded using the Crafting System.
It's in the Lobi Store/Lockbox area of the ship list. Because reasons.
And wait until we see the Fleet T6 Ships (with 11th console Slot).
According to the Devblogs it is wrong.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
What I hope Cryptic will reconsider is the deficiencies T5-U starships have compared to the T6.
I was really looking forward to an improved BOFF seating arrangement for my Defiant-R.
I want to explore lots of the new ships---that's part of the fun for me!---but I've had a favourite fleet starship for years, and I'm looking forward to taking *my* starship into battle in the Delta Quadrant. With these changes, I'll always feel like my favourite ship is a poorer choice, despite the thousands of Zen I've invested into it.
Cryptic, please make T5-U starships equal to T6 ships. We've spent a lot of money on these ships over the last 4 years. If you really get that, you'll understand that we don't want to be in a position choosing between state-of-the-art efficacy and our favourite vessels.
I understand your desire to make the new T6 starships feel special and attractive purchases, but this game is about so much more than the gear grind we're subjected to in other MMOs. STO is special because it allows us to live out the fantasy of the Star Trek universe! Allowing me to further enhance my Fleet Tac Escort Retrofit using the latest technologies Starfleet has to offer is part of that fantasy! It's like the rebirth of the Enterprise in the earlier movies. Please don't ask me to sacrifice that experience.
That's kind of a loaded question, since any given T5 ship might not have an "equivalent" T6 version to compare it to.
Precisely. T-6 was described as being superior in terms of 'bells and whistles' (paraphrasing here) and to me, an 11th console slot is more 'bells and whistles' and a 13th BOFF ability is more 'meat and potatoes'.
100% agree. I might pay money to upgrade my CANON ship to full T6. I don't want a gimped CANON ship compared to a crappy-non-canon ship that gets full T6 abilities.
This right here made my day! Finally got some good beefy info that handled all our worries and fears.
Now I can upgrade my other ships at a more easier pace on how I want.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
avenger
mogh
patrol refit
vesta
ar'Kif
ha'feh
ha'apax
ha'nom
all 3 scimitar
all 3 odyssey
all 3 bortas
all 3 vet ships
all 9 C store sci destroyers
aren't upgradable to full tier 6, not just tier 5U? these are supposed to be the best, newest ships, no way should they miss a single tier 6 goodie
yes I want my tuffli t5u!
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
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Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
First off - what's with the bridge officer abilities and seats? Does it mean that T6 will (for the most part) just have ACCESS to unique specialist boff seatings, or will they flat out have MORE boff seatings and skills in total? If it's the latter case, then that's some really bad info that basically makes the talk about "remaining competitive" a total BS.
Second, what's the point of Fleet Ships at this point if both C-Store and Fleet Store ships will be upgrade'able to T5-U ? From the sounds of it you've basically just made Fleet Shipyard obsolete, as there will be absolutely no reason to buy Fleet ships, unless they don't have a C-Store equivalent. Is that the case, or will - for example - a T5-U Fleet D'deridex Retrofit be better than T5-U D'deridex Retrofit, just like it's the case now?
Third - current Lock Box and Lobi ships are considered to be T5-U. Will future Lock Box ships also be T5 with an upgrade option, or will you continue your power creep-fest and you'll move to releasing pure T6 boxed ships?
Again, you overcomplicate things unnecessarily, Cryptic...