Even if 80 isnt optimum, something well below 159 is.
The price of zen is TOO DARN HIGH.
People are struggling, the game cries out for new sinks to lower that rate!
The price of Zen is too high? The difference between 120 and 160 is around 16 cents a day for the average player. If the average player is feeling the loss of 16 cents over an hour or two of playing, well to put it simply, they have bigger problems in life then the Zen Exchange.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
See, this is why i am interested in GLOBAL solutions, not the solution tailor made to one poster or another.
With all due respect, this is not a global solution, or any solution for that matter, what you are proposing is an unnecessary source of frustration. As for dilithium sinks, as mentioned many times previously, there are plenty especially for ship collectors and I write that from personal experience.
The price of Zen is too high? The difference between 120 and 160 is around 16 cents a day for the average player. If the average player is feeling the loss of 16 cents over an hour or two of playing, well to put it simply, they have bigger problems in life then the Zen Exchange.
Yeah, anything below 200 is IMO undeserving of being considered "high". I remember back when it was 350+ now THAT was high!
Tell you what, OP. You want a 10% chance of your items being destroyed, get yourself a trusty d10, roll for each of your items, and delete them on a roll of 1. You have what you "desperately" need, and the rest of us don't suffer for your idea.
Look, the OP's right in that this game needs to be less sterile and more risky. But that isn't compatible with the current system. Something like this once the paradigm has been changed some, so that high-quality weapons are less important than other factors, and potentially easier to get? Sure. But to make that change now?
#no #justno
(Yes, I know hashtags are obnoxious, even when used as a joke. But sometimes, the situation just calls for it.)
Taking the OP's idea at face value, I would have to say it would have the opposite of the intended effect. People do not like losing things they worked at getting (how hard they worked varies from player to player).
There is nothing in this game that requires you to use the very top end gear. You can use a ship out of the box at the level it was intended. If people run the risk of losing their gear due to a death mechanic, why would they invest dilithium on it in the first place? I am guessing the vast majority of players would choose the path of least resistance, and just go with easy to acquire blue or lower quality gear. This would in turn cause players to stockpile dilithium, which would be readily available for trading on the dilithium exchange. With this surge in available dilithium (I do not see why people would change their farming habits so gain would remain static), the price of zen skyrocket. After all there is nothing in this game that requires all ultra rare expensive gear. You can do elite STFs in a ship out of the box with appropriate level white gear. Increasing supply lowers the value of a currency, and if people are not spending it on high end gear, this is what I see happening.
The PvP issue is a red herring in my opinion.
I think there may be something else the OP is looking for. Right now high end crafted gear is going for a premium on the exchange. I am not certain how well it is moving, but if there was a gear destruction mechanic in play, I wonder how that would affect that particular market? Would people buy the crafted gear for EC to remain "competitive", or would they do like I suggested and stick with middle to low end gear?
I think a better way to examine what the OP is really after is to separate the two issues, dilithium prices on the exchange, and gear destruction, and take one out of the equation. If the dilithium to zen price is too high, then there are other ways to address this. If you are looking for a death mechanic, then maybe an opt-in system would be preferable, or perhaps a system that prevents respawning in events (terrible idea, but an option though).
If you want to lower the dilithium cost of zen, then you need to reduce dilithium supply. There are already a fair amount of sinks in the game that give a return on dilithium (fleet credits/gear). The most effective way to do this (this will be hugely unpopular) is to reduce the rate at which a player can gain dilithium, and to either reduce the refining cap, or better (but still probably unpopular) have an account wide refining cap. You want less dilithium on the exchange, then you need to reduce how much players can gain, while bleeding the rest through sinks. Do this and you will get to your goal of dropping the price of zen faster (along with the resulting wailing and gnashing of teeth)...if that is really your goal.
Death mechanics have been discussed before and there are a TON of suggestions in the threads about that, but I don't think that is what the OP is after.
Tell you what, OP. You want a 10% chance of your items being destroyed, get yourself a trusty d10, roll for each of your items, and delete them on a roll of 1. You have what you "desperately" need, and the rest of us don't suffer for your idea.
No, you misunderstand. He doesn't want to lose his stuff - he wants you to lose your stuff, so his epeen can feel bigger by comparison.
I'm guessing I'm with the majority of replies (that I didn't bother to read) that if you make my hard-won item go 'poof' then you will have a large exodus of enraged players who will take their time/money elsewhere.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,585Community Moderator
edited August 2014
There's already debuffs given on death/destruction. They're on Elite difficulty. Normal is for the casual player.
I don't think it is a lack of Dil sinks that has the Zen prices back up to closer to when I started but more of a reduction of people willing to spend their money on Zen just to buy Dil and have the next sink introduced. I for one would love to see the prices drop back to 100 Dil per zen so that I could get more items/services from the store for my 18 toons as money has gotten very tight for me due to health issues and how rarely PWE are doing Zen sales when I do have funds to buy zen .
The only way I can see the rates dropping again at this point is if PWE did a massive sale on Zen along the lines of the "triple SC weekends" that SOE used to do. and then they would still need to do it frequently enough that there would be a larger surplus of Zen. I think that right now the Dil is in such a demand that people are not willing to buy it for less zen than the current going rate so that they can afford to complete the projects. Last time I looked a couple days ago there was something like 500k zen set at the 159 dil price unless Zen is put up on a big sale that will stay the going rate range especially if they do more store sales like the services sale that we just had without doing the zen sales before hand.
More Dil sinks like the idea of destroying equipment may lead a few more people to spend more money on zen to buy dil but it will drive more players away. Many people that currently do buy the dil for zen at the current rates probably view the current rate as a standard rate worth tier money or there wouldn't have been 500k zen at the 159 dill mark. No matter how much more the demand for dil goes up at this point many people probably are not willing to 1 zen for much less than the 150 dil without having a massive sale price on the zen that makes everyone feel the value of their zen is worth a lower value.
Zen sale with a project dil discount weekend would probably have the wanted effected as more people would be buying the dil faster than the dil stock could maintain but without that sale to encourage the purchase zen to make people think that they can drop below the current rate people will just keep trying to get as much dil for what little Zen they have.
To reduce the exchange rate in a situation like this it is not just an increase the demand for Dil but you also have to increase the supply zen meaning you have to "print" more zen (Reduce the cost of the zen in terms of cash value). example: Cost of living (Dil demand) goes up but minimum wage (Zen purchase price) stays the same means less people have money to spend on things so buy less (Dil from exchange). Without a raise to the minimum wage (More zen for the same price or less) the Demand for essentials (Dil demand/sink) is still there at the base cost of living but no one can afford anything else or have to cut the essentials down just to squeak by. That doesn't lead to the cost of living dropping it leads to more people living below the poverty line.
Hopefully that helps point out how this idea would not do part of what it was proposed to help with. (Dil to Zen rate)
The workingman cries out at the severity of his toils, the price of zen is too high, and the moral imperatives under which all good people live make it necessary that any new dil sink be ethically permissible.
I believe my proposal is ethically permissible.
Who even talks like this?
This guy is just having a laugh.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Then you can implement this right now. Just find a bunch of like-minded individuals and after each loss have them or you roll a dice to determine which piece of equipment to delete or better yet have the piece of equipment traded to the winner. After all, I could say I deleted a piece of equipment, but there is no way to enforce that I did. If the lost item is traded instead of "destroyed", then the winner can claim it as spoils or destroy it. If the piece of equipment is from the Fleet or Reputation, then a monetary value could be traded.
Absolutely no one is preventing you from implementing this system. You are free to do whatever you want with your equipment, but it must be voluntary and the devs would never implement this since it only affects a fraction of the players and they have more important things to work on.
This is the opposite of truth. There are not many small fleets out that that consume dil. If there were, there wouldn't be dil inflation because demand for dil would not have dropped.
The real world cant be the way it is, and what you say also be true at the same time.
The game cries out for dil sinks, the price of zen is too high.
There are many small fleets out there in desperate need of dil. That is truth, that is fact. If your "theories" are saying something different, then either they are built on faulty information.... or the theories themselves are bollocks.
Both my Fed and KDF fleets that are a few years old are small as it is pretty much just a bunch of close friends only. We are always in a situation of having a demand for Dilithium and fleet marks more than anything else. I am sure that there are many other fleets out there like ours that are in about the same situation. Easier to get commodities and DOffs for us that to get all the Dil needed to complete the more time sensible and financially feasible projects so we are almost always waiting dil to complete projects.
Both my Fed and KDF fleets that are a few years old are small as it is pretty much just a bunch of close friends only. We are always in a situation of having a demand for Dilithium and fleet marks more than anything else. I am sure that there are many other fleets out there like ours that are in about the same situation. Easier to get commodities and DOffs for us that to get all the Dil needed to complete the more time sensible and financially feasible projects so we are almost always waiting dil to complete projects.
Indeed, small fleet like yours, getting a couple handfulls of doffs or commodities.... easy. Fleet marks are abit easlier but small fleets cna struggle on them.... dil costs are horrendous..... when you have projects that take up to weeks of straight daily refining by a few people to even fill. Having multiple toons in different types of fleets it's east to see.... my toons in big ones, we can fill a 300,000+ dil project in less than a day.... in the small ones it can be open for months.
OP's idea is the equivalent of taking a gun out, putting it to the head of small fleets and just pulling the trigger. If the OP is so concerned about his perceived excess of dil, thn he can ask for an invite to one of our fleets and dump all this spare dill that exists there.
Comments
Which people? Show me who is struggling? Show me one person other then you who even cares that the exchange is at 159.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
With all due respect, this is not a global solution, or any solution for that matter, what you are proposing is an unnecessary source of frustration. As for dilithium sinks, as mentioned many times previously, there are plenty especially for ship collectors and I write that from personal experience.
Don't give him the opening.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
I removed it and I am sorry.
You are a bad person and you should be ashamed of yourself... At least theres modesty in you though...
So you have that going, which is nice.
That said, your respective faction should be supplying all these items for free anyway.
I don't remember any of the Captains in the show having to buy weapons and items for their ships, just requisitioning them.
Beat them with the dead horse instead
My character Tsin'xing
#no #justno
(Yes, I know hashtags are obnoxious, even when used as a joke. But sometimes, the situation just calls for it.)
Taking the OP's idea at face value, I would have to say it would have the opposite of the intended effect. People do not like losing things they worked at getting (how hard they worked varies from player to player).
There is nothing in this game that requires you to use the very top end gear. You can use a ship out of the box at the level it was intended. If people run the risk of losing their gear due to a death mechanic, why would they invest dilithium on it in the first place? I am guessing the vast majority of players would choose the path of least resistance, and just go with easy to acquire blue or lower quality gear. This would in turn cause players to stockpile dilithium, which would be readily available for trading on the dilithium exchange. With this surge in available dilithium (I do not see why people would change their farming habits so gain would remain static), the price of zen skyrocket. After all there is nothing in this game that requires all ultra rare expensive gear. You can do elite STFs in a ship out of the box with appropriate level white gear. Increasing supply lowers the value of a currency, and if people are not spending it on high end gear, this is what I see happening.
The PvP issue is a red herring in my opinion.
I think there may be something else the OP is looking for. Right now high end crafted gear is going for a premium on the exchange. I am not certain how well it is moving, but if there was a gear destruction mechanic in play, I wonder how that would affect that particular market? Would people buy the crafted gear for EC to remain "competitive", or would they do like I suggested and stick with middle to low end gear?
I think a better way to examine what the OP is really after is to separate the two issues, dilithium prices on the exchange, and gear destruction, and take one out of the equation. If the dilithium to zen price is too high, then there are other ways to address this. If you are looking for a death mechanic, then maybe an opt-in system would be preferable, or perhaps a system that prevents respawning in events (terrible idea, but an option though).
If you want to lower the dilithium cost of zen, then you need to reduce dilithium supply. There are already a fair amount of sinks in the game that give a return on dilithium (fleet credits/gear). The most effective way to do this (this will be hugely unpopular) is to reduce the rate at which a player can gain dilithium, and to either reduce the refining cap, or better (but still probably unpopular) have an account wide refining cap. You want less dilithium on the exchange, then you need to reduce how much players can gain, while bleeding the rest through sinks. Do this and you will get to your goal of dropping the price of zen faster (along with the resulting wailing and gnashing of teeth)...if that is really your goal.
Death mechanics have been discussed before and there are a TON of suggestions in the threads about that, but I don't think that is what the OP is after.
The only way I can see the rates dropping again at this point is if PWE did a massive sale on Zen along the lines of the "triple SC weekends" that SOE used to do. and then they would still need to do it frequently enough that there would be a larger surplus of Zen. I think that right now the Dil is in such a demand that people are not willing to buy it for less zen than the current going rate so that they can afford to complete the projects. Last time I looked a couple days ago there was something like 500k zen set at the 159 dil price unless Zen is put up on a big sale that will stay the going rate range especially if they do more store sales like the services sale that we just had without doing the zen sales before hand.
More Dil sinks like the idea of destroying equipment may lead a few more people to spend more money on zen to buy dil but it will drive more players away. Many people that currently do buy the dil for zen at the current rates probably view the current rate as a standard rate worth tier money or there wouldn't have been 500k zen at the 159 dill mark. No matter how much more the demand for dil goes up at this point many people probably are not willing to 1 zen for much less than the 150 dil without having a massive sale price on the zen that makes everyone feel the value of their zen is worth a lower value.
Zen sale with a project dil discount weekend would probably have the wanted effected as more people would be buying the dil faster than the dil stock could maintain but without that sale to encourage the purchase zen to make people think that they can drop below the current rate people will just keep trying to get as much dil for what little Zen they have.
To reduce the exchange rate in a situation like this it is not just an increase the demand for Dil but you also have to increase the supply zen meaning you have to "print" more zen (Reduce the cost of the zen in terms of cash value). example: Cost of living (Dil demand) goes up but minimum wage (Zen purchase price) stays the same means less people have money to spend on things so buy less (Dil from exchange). Without a raise to the minimum wage (More zen for the same price or less) the Demand for essentials (Dil demand/sink) is still there at the base cost of living but no one can afford anything else or have to cut the essentials down just to squeak by. That doesn't lead to the cost of living dropping it leads to more people living below the poverty line.
Hopefully that helps point out how this idea would not do part of what it was proposed to help with. (Dil to Zen rate)
Who even talks like this?
This guy is just having a laugh.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Absolutely no one is preventing you from implementing this system. You are free to do whatever you want with your equipment, but it must be voluntary and the devs would never implement this since it only affects a fraction of the players and they have more important things to work on.
Both my Fed and KDF fleets that are a few years old are small as it is pretty much just a bunch of close friends only. We are always in a situation of having a demand for Dilithium and fleet marks more than anything else. I am sure that there are many other fleets out there like ours that are in about the same situation. Easier to get commodities and DOffs for us that to get all the Dil needed to complete the more time sensible and financially feasible projects so we are almost always waiting dil to complete projects.
It's already been established that that isn't true.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Indeed, small fleet like yours, getting a couple handfulls of doffs or commodities.... easy. Fleet marks are abit easlier but small fleets cna struggle on them.... dil costs are horrendous..... when you have projects that take up to weeks of straight daily refining by a few people to even fill. Having multiple toons in different types of fleets it's east to see.... my toons in big ones, we can fill a 300,000+ dil project in less than a day.... in the small ones it can be open for months.
OP's idea is the equivalent of taking a gun out, putting it to the head of small fleets and just pulling the trigger. If the OP is so concerned about his perceived excess of dil, thn he can ask for an invite to one of our fleets and dump all this spare dill that exists there.