This is the internet, once someone makes up the mind on something, there is nothing you can do to change it. Accept that fact and your game play experience will be better. Don't give yourself a heart attack trying.
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
There is very much things wrong with Arc. Just because you have no problems it does not mean it works for everyone. I cannot buy anything from the Zen store if I use Arc. That alone is reason to hate and not use it.
If it breaks the Zen store for some players how can you say nothing it wrong with Arc?
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
hate the hater publicly. cant decide if thats a potential flame or spam thread. anyways, when the choice between steam and arc comes, im going for the former as i already have my setup on that.
edit: thread merged. disregard.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
Because it's completely unnecessary and offers NOTHING in return for sucking up my metrics. What more reason do I need?
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
Really, don't bother with it. There is a lot of irrational hatred against it, and you're just going to stir up trouble with the topic.
The legitimate concern I have with it is that I really don't need an extra website reader, I already got a browser. I just need something to launch my game, so I stay with the old launcher as long as I can.
If it works for you, it works for you.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Ive tryed arc twice n both times it said connection timed out i have no problem with sto own client. i can even take my 5 year old HP Pavilion lab top on the bus use my 3G smart phone as a wifi hotspot to play sto can u do that with arc nope cos arc uses to much data. Its a hour bus ride to my mums so thats why i do it.
I have Steam. Why do I want the Chinese version of Steam too? Or wherever PWE originates from.
Northern California. Operations are separate from PWI, which is based in China. That's why it's hard to play Cryptic games in the Far East - Cryptic doesn't have a worldwide network of server farms, just the one in (IIRC) upstate New York, so the licensing standards for PW don't quite work out for their home region.
The basic problem with Arc is that the tinfoil-hat brigade became terribly excited about "Chinese spyware", because of course we all have all this data on our home computers that the Chinese intelligence agency is anxious to get its hands on. (And equally of course, if such a thing were true, they couldn't possibly have slipped such a module into the existing game that you routinely update without ever actually parsing the data yourself...)
However, I've learned over time that arguing with such folks is futile - they'll use the lack of data as if it were an actual data point ("How do you know it's not stealing everything?"). There's no reasoning with positions like that.
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
Supporting ArC means you're willfully participating in the mass fragmentation of gaming into propietartary software platforms, something all gamers should rally against. Do you want to have to download distribution software for every single game released by a developer in the future because that's where we're headed. Do want to have to have a live internet connection for all games that we play so that developers can keep track of all of our gaming activities? Need I go on?
Northern California. Operations are separate from PWI, which is based in China. That's why it's hard to play Cryptic games in the Far East - Cryptic doesn't have a worldwide network of server farms, just the one in (IIRC) upstate New York, so the licensing standards for PW don't quite work out for their home region.
The basic problem with Arc is that the tinfoil-hat brigade became terribly excited about "Chinese spyware", because of course we all have all this data on our home computers that the Chinese intelligence agency is anxious to get its hands on. (And equally of course, if such a thing were true, they couldn't possibly have slipped such a module into the existing game that you routinely update without ever actually parsing the data yourself...)
However, I've learned over time that arguing with such folks is futile - they'll use the lack of data as if it were an actual data point ("How do you know it's not stealing everything?"). There's no reasoning with positions like that.
Yes because apart from concerns about it being malicious software, there's no way that the concern that arc becomes an absolute requirement is a legitimate one, right? Give me a break..
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
Wow thank you.
Having tested it on one possible configuration out of several thousand, you clearly are a technical genius to be able to surmise that it works perfectly.
You're probably the same guy who tested these things once, and found that:
1.) Lead in gasoline had no ill-effect on anything
2.) Red Dye #12 was good for you
3.) Thalidomide is an excellent anti-nausea medication
4.) Cigarette smoking is good for weight loss
5.) Chlorofluorocarbon are excellent refrigerants
I have more. These were tested 'once' and found not to have any problems.
Supporting ArC means you're willfully participating in the mass fragmentation of gaming into propietartary software platforms, something all gamers should rally against. Do you want to have to download distribution software for every single game released by a developer in the future because that's where we're headed. Do want to have to have a live internet connection for all games that we play so that developers can keep track of all of our gaming activities? Need I go on?
Most games currently come with patch facilities, often via launchers.
What is more fragmented - one such launcher/patcher tool in every game, or one launcher tool for every distributor or software company?
And considering the success of Steam - fragmentation might be vastly preferable over a monopoly.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Northern California. Operations are separate from PWI, which is based in China. That's why it's hard to play Cryptic games in the Far East - Cryptic doesn't have a worldwide network of server farms, just the one in (IIRC) upstate New York, so the licensing standards for PW don't quite work out for their home region.
The basic problem with Arc is that the tinfoil-hat brigade became terribly excited about "Chinese spyware", because of course we all have all this data on our home computers that the Chinese intelligence agency is anxious to get its hands on. (And equally of course, if such a thing were true, they couldn't possibly have slipped such a module into the existing game that you routinely update without ever actually parsing the data yourself...)
However, I've learned over time that arguing with such folks is futile - they'll use the lack of data as if it were an actual data point ("How do you know it's not stealing everything?"). There's no reasoning with positions like that.
Actually, it's in Boston, Massachusetts.
And until recently, it was a TRIBBLE-tastic bottle neck that kept A LOT of folks from playing the game reliably.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Northern California. Operations are separate from PWI, which is based in China. That's why it's hard to play Cryptic games in the Far East - Cryptic doesn't have a worldwide network of server farms, just the one in (IIRC) upstate New York, so the licensing standards for PW don't quite work out for their home region.
The basic problem with Arc is that the tinfoil-hat brigade became terribly excited about "Chinese spyware", because of course we all have all this data on our home computers that the Chinese intelligence agency is anxious to get its hands on. (And equally of course, if such a thing were true, they couldn't possibly have slipped such a module into the existing game that you routinely update without ever actually parsing the data yourself...)
However, I've learned over time that arguing with such folks is futile - they'll use the lack of data as if it were an actual data point ("How do you know it's not stealing everything?"). There's no reasoning with positions like that.
I'm SO important that the Chinese government needs to spy on my.
Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on.
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
"Hey look at me, I run Arc and it runs fine for me, therefore will run fine for you and therefore see no hate for Arc."
That's great OP. Why make a thread about it and not keep it to yourself? Lets be honest, we know why.
At the very least you could have posted on the still active Arc feedback forum.
Edit: Removed link as it is now merged with linked forum.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
1- it's unnecessary and superfluous, because everything that it does can be accomplished better without it. all you need is the game launcher and a browser.
2- it does not run very well. the browser component alone is ridiculously slow and lacks several basic modern functions. the entire system is just clunky.
3- it's unnecessary, which is worth being listed twice because if you do want a client like this to run things, then other places (coughsteamcough) do a far better job with organization, performance/resources, versatility, and convenience. Not that steam doesn't also require an invenstment of one's soul, but at least there, you get far more bang for your metaphysical buck.
I keep my own system metrics up constantly on a second monitor, and adding up the various processes that both systems are running, steam and arc (at least on my system) use similar amounts of memory space, but arc uses 3-4 times the cpu and still doesn't run as well, despite being far less functional.
Most games currently come with patch facilities, often via launchers.
What is more fragmented - one such launcher/patcher tool in every game, or one launcher tool for every distributor or software company?
And considering the success of Steam - fragmentation might be vastly preferable over a monopoly.
The fragmentation ship has already sailed. All we can do now is try our best to circumscribe it/limit it's influence on gaming.
To answer your point about the launcher tools in games versus 1 launcher for every developer, I would pick the launcher tools any day over a full blown distribution software download. Why? Because arguably download tools for individual games tend to have smaller file sizes than a full distribution software tool. And if the download/patching tool for an individual game is larger than the average file size for distribution software (ubisoft trrashware, I'm looking at you), we as gamers shouldn't even bother playing those games.
In fact, I stopped buying Microsoft or ubisoft games because of the tremendously burdersome downloads and requirements of their bloatware. I will never buy a splintercell PC game again because the multiplayer in the last one I bought was broken and the DRM was so oppressive. I also abandoned origin because of it's browser requirement.
There is nothing wrong with Arc, I run it with no problem at all, it's no different to me then steam is. I am also running a med-range pc that is 3 years old.
So I am not seeing where all this hate for Arc is coming from.
Why do I need something running in the background, using my system resources while I play STO (sections of which are still so horribly unoptimized that many zones in the game chug at low frames per second even on high end hardware)? ARC adds NOTHING of worth for my STO play experience; and I for one am happy they haven't yet 100% forced ARC on STO players. The last thing I need on my system is ARC bloatware. YMMV.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It's a crappy attempt by a publisher to lock you onto them, using additional resources on your computer with no upside. None. Absolutely no value, literally no benefit compared to what came before.
Contrast this with Steam, a DRM/marketing platform that the vast majority of gamers not only tolerate, but like. Why? It's not bound to publishers, it adds tools like the ability to take screen shots, has communication tools (forums, friend lists, markets, trading) that (once again) is not locked to a small segment, it now opens up the market to lots of smaller games (Greenlight?), it's cross-platform, it has an e-wallet that (once again) is not locked to a publisher, and they hold regular sales with ridiculous discounts.
Steam adds lots of value, none of the other DRM/marketing platforms do, and it has the least amount of restrictions for that value.
ARC is an attempt to lock you into only going through their store. It's the first step in a pipe dream to create their own little gaming monopoly. It will fail, but it'll TRIBBLE us over in the process.
It's also unneccessary because Steam is so much better, more inclusive, allows me to have friends from other games in other communities, allows me to combine my games into one place. I've been with steam since they forced Half-Life mods onto it way back. Let me tell ya I was NOT happy. I hated it, in fact. However, many many years of experience have proven that in the end it's a good product with a great idea. It's NOT bound by the studio's catalog, as mentioned.
As for others:
Origin is a poor attempt by a loathesome label (EA Games) to TRIBBLE folks over. Let's not forget the "scan the contents of the HDD and send the info back home" feature of the initial release, shall we? Okay, after a LONG delay (far too long) they removed or at least disabled that feature. However, EA is such an inhumane company, killing (literally killing, gutting, destroying) otherwise capable game dev companies, and they shouldn't be rewarded. They have oppressive DRM and lack any kind of accountability or customer service. Their influence has also turned DICE from a world-class dev team to an Amazon rain forrest slash-n-burn outfit.
Yuplay is just stupid. Evil, but stupid. It's an ADDED layer of DRM on top of existing layers (i.e. steam, game key authentication, etc), but on top of that it doesn't WORK 90% of the time! You can't trust it to let you into a game. It's a Russian company and their standards are TRIBBLE-poor. If the servers in Russia decide, you won't be able to play ANY yuplay game in their catalog simply because you can't update, check for updates, log in, actually launch the game even if you're logged in, and millions of other issues. It's a total debacle. I will NOT buy any game, EVER, that lists yuplay. Sorry Ubisoft, you're SOL. Wish I could experience FarCry3, but not going to happen if I have to suffer through that. They've even retrofit yuplay onto some older games, and the compatibility issues get worse the older the game is.
Steam: Steam is its own little thing. It started the big push to this "make your own storefront" type of launcher. The big difference? Valve isn't pushing mindless TRIBBLE down your throats all the time. They also offer you other options outside of valve's games. The main point is that Steam was built around the gaming needs of the times. There were third party server browsers, launchers, friends lists, IM chats, etc. All these things were used and widespread. Valve just incorporated them. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was made just for gamers, but they surely knew their audience and what kind of market they were looking to get into. All of the other johnny-come-lately knock-offs (ARC, Origin, etc) only see dollar signs and see it as a way of making things EXclusive. They failed to notice the only reason Steam is still around is that it's INclusive. Yes, steam has its problems (and lordy, boy did it have a ton of problems in those early years) but it has built in functionality that has earned it a solid reputation. That reputation IS NOT as a restrictive DRM layer to punish players. It's to help them. And, if along the way you want to buy a game, here's a store you can do it with. That's why all the others will fail. They don't look at it the same way. They just see dollar signs.
EDIT: Oh, and... GFWL was mentioned there. It was about as bad as yuplay, in that it was wholly unreliable and an ADDED layer of DRM on top of existing layers. It also forced you to save games on the cloud in most cases, but wiped the cloud weekly, thus resetting MANY games REPEATEDLY to the point that players stopped playing them en masse. GFWL actually closed a while back. It was that bad. They just shut down. No more server, nothing. A couple of games that used it modified themselves with a patch to bypass the entire GFWL checkin process, but a number were left out in the cold and are 100% unplayable now because of it. There's a reason GFWL shut down. It was unneccessary TRIBBLE.
It's not that there is nothing wrong with ARC but it's the being forced to use it.If I changed my PC and didnt have the original download link then I would have to use ARC or Steam, I have tried both and out of them both Steam is the better option and the main reason for that is I have other games on it that i play. Arc should remain optional for the guys who want to use it. If it ever becomes mandatoy then PWE and Cryptic will lose a lot of customers and even if they do not care about us gamers don't care for being treated like fools either and arc is not useful unless you play other PWE games so does nothing for the sTO experience
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
There is very much things wrong with Arc. Just because you have no problems it does not mean it works for everyone. I cannot buy anything from the Zen store if I use Arc. That alone is reason to hate and not use it.
If it breaks the Zen store for some players how can you say nothing it wrong with Arc?
hate the hater publicly. cant decide if thats a potential flame or spam thread. anyways, when the choice between steam and arc comes, im going for the former as i already have my setup on that.
edit: thread merged. disregard.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
And herein lies the problem with Arc, and the reason I refuse to reinstall it.
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
Because it's completely unnecessary and offers NOTHING in return for sucking up my metrics. What more reason do I need?
DeltaFox
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Really, don't bother with it. There is a lot of irrational hatred against it, and you're just going to stir up trouble with the topic.
The legitimate concern I have with it is that I really don't need an extra website reader, I already got a browser. I just need something to launch my game, so I stay with the old launcher as long as I can.
If it works for you, it works for you.
The basic problem with Arc is that the tinfoil-hat brigade became terribly excited about "Chinese spyware", because of course we all have all this data on our home computers that the Chinese intelligence agency is anxious to get its hands on. (And equally of course, if such a thing were true, they couldn't possibly have slipped such a module into the existing game that you routinely update without ever actually parsing the data yourself...)
However, I've learned over time that arguing with such folks is futile - they'll use the lack of data as if it were an actual data point ("How do you know it's not stealing everything?"). There's no reasoning with positions like that.
Supporting ArC means you're willfully participating in the mass fragmentation of gaming into propietartary software platforms, something all gamers should rally against. Do you want to have to download distribution software for every single game released by a developer in the future because that's where we're headed. Do want to have to have a live internet connection for all games that we play so that developers can keep track of all of our gaming activities? Need I go on?
Yes because apart from concerns about it being malicious software, there's no way that the concern that arc becomes an absolute requirement is a legitimate one, right? Give me a break..
Wow thank you.
Having tested it on one possible configuration out of several thousand, you clearly are a technical genius to be able to surmise that it works perfectly.
You're probably the same guy who tested these things once, and found that:
1.) Lead in gasoline had no ill-effect on anything
2.) Red Dye #12 was good for you
3.) Thalidomide is an excellent anti-nausea medication
4.) Cigarette smoking is good for weight loss
5.) Chlorofluorocarbon are excellent refrigerants
I have more. These were tested 'once' and found not to have any problems.
QFT
I despise all Apple products for the same reason. Their proprietary business model stifles consumer choice and market innovation.
Most games currently come with patch facilities, often via launchers.
What is more fragmented - one such launcher/patcher tool in every game, or one launcher tool for every distributor or software company?
And considering the success of Steam - fragmentation might be vastly preferable over a monopoly.
Actually, it's in Boston, Massachusetts.
And until recently, it was a TRIBBLE-tastic bottle neck that kept A LOT of folks from playing the game reliably.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That's like saying you have an argument against icons because every application has it's own.
I'm SO important that the Chinese government needs to spy on my.
This.
And that if I want to play a game, I want to run the game, not a launcher.
"Hey look at me, I run Arc and it runs fine for me, therefore will run fine for you and therefore see no hate for Arc."
That's great OP. Why make a thread about it and not keep it to yourself? Lets be honest, we know why.
At the very least you could have posted on the still active Arc feedback forum.
Edit: Removed link as it is now merged with linked forum.
1- it's unnecessary and superfluous, because everything that it does can be accomplished better without it. all you need is the game launcher and a browser.
2- it does not run very well. the browser component alone is ridiculously slow and lacks several basic modern functions. the entire system is just clunky.
3- it's unnecessary, which is worth being listed twice because if you do want a client like this to run things, then other places (coughsteamcough) do a far better job with organization, performance/resources, versatility, and convenience. Not that steam doesn't also require an invenstment of one's soul, but at least there, you get far more bang for your metaphysical buck.
I keep my own system metrics up constantly on a second monitor, and adding up the various processes that both systems are running, steam and arc (at least on my system) use similar amounts of memory space, but arc uses 3-4 times the cpu and still doesn't run as well, despite being far less functional.
The fragmentation ship has already sailed. All we can do now is try our best to circumscribe it/limit it's influence on gaming.
To answer your point about the launcher tools in games versus 1 launcher for every developer, I would pick the launcher tools any day over a full blown distribution software download. Why? Because arguably download tools for individual games tend to have smaller file sizes than a full distribution software tool. And if the download/patching tool for an individual game is larger than the average file size for distribution software (ubisoft trrashware, I'm looking at you), we as gamers shouldn't even bother playing those games.
In fact, I stopped buying Microsoft or ubisoft games because of the tremendously burdersome downloads and requirements of their bloatware. I will never buy a splintercell PC game again because the multiplayer in the last one I bought was broken and the DRM was so oppressive. I also abandoned origin because of it's browser requirement.
Why do I need something running in the background, using my system resources while I play STO (sections of which are still so horribly unoptimized that many zones in the game chug at low frames per second even on high end hardware)? ARC adds NOTHING of worth for my STO play experience; and I for one am happy they haven't yet 100% forced ARC on STO players. The last thing I need on my system is ARC bloatware. YMMV.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It's a crappy attempt by a publisher to lock you onto them, using additional resources on your computer with no upside. None. Absolutely no value, literally no benefit compared to what came before.
Contrast this with Steam, a DRM/marketing platform that the vast majority of gamers not only tolerate, but like. Why? It's not bound to publishers, it adds tools like the ability to take screen shots, has communication tools (forums, friend lists, markets, trading) that (once again) is not locked to a small segment, it now opens up the market to lots of smaller games (Greenlight?), it's cross-platform, it has an e-wallet that (once again) is not locked to a publisher, and they hold regular sales with ridiculous discounts.
Steam adds lots of value, none of the other DRM/marketing platforms do, and it has the least amount of restrictions for that value.
It's also unneccessary because Steam is so much better, more inclusive, allows me to have friends from other games in other communities, allows me to combine my games into one place. I've been with steam since they forced Half-Life mods onto it way back. Let me tell ya I was NOT happy. I hated it, in fact. However, many many years of experience have proven that in the end it's a good product with a great idea. It's NOT bound by the studio's catalog, as mentioned.
As for others:
Origin is a poor attempt by a loathesome label (EA Games) to TRIBBLE folks over. Let's not forget the "scan the contents of the HDD and send the info back home" feature of the initial release, shall we? Okay, after a LONG delay (far too long) they removed or at least disabled that feature. However, EA is such an inhumane company, killing (literally killing, gutting, destroying) otherwise capable game dev companies, and they shouldn't be rewarded. They have oppressive DRM and lack any kind of accountability or customer service. Their influence has also turned DICE from a world-class dev team to an Amazon rain forrest slash-n-burn outfit.
Yuplay is just stupid. Evil, but stupid. It's an ADDED layer of DRM on top of existing layers (i.e. steam, game key authentication, etc), but on top of that it doesn't WORK 90% of the time! You can't trust it to let you into a game. It's a Russian company and their standards are TRIBBLE-poor. If the servers in Russia decide, you won't be able to play ANY yuplay game in their catalog simply because you can't update, check for updates, log in, actually launch the game even if you're logged in, and millions of other issues. It's a total debacle. I will NOT buy any game, EVER, that lists yuplay. Sorry Ubisoft, you're SOL. Wish I could experience FarCry3, but not going to happen if I have to suffer through that. They've even retrofit yuplay onto some older games, and the compatibility issues get worse the older the game is.
Steam: Steam is its own little thing. It started the big push to this "make your own storefront" type of launcher. The big difference? Valve isn't pushing mindless TRIBBLE down your throats all the time. They also offer you other options outside of valve's games. The main point is that Steam was built around the gaming needs of the times. There were third party server browsers, launchers, friends lists, IM chats, etc. All these things were used and widespread. Valve just incorporated them. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was made just for gamers, but they surely knew their audience and what kind of market they were looking to get into. All of the other johnny-come-lately knock-offs (ARC, Origin, etc) only see dollar signs and see it as a way of making things EXclusive. They failed to notice the only reason Steam is still around is that it's INclusive. Yes, steam has its problems (and lordy, boy did it have a ton of problems in those early years) but it has built in functionality that has earned it a solid reputation. That reputation IS NOT as a restrictive DRM layer to punish players. It's to help them. And, if along the way you want to buy a game, here's a store you can do it with. That's why all the others will fail. They don't look at it the same way. They just see dollar signs.
EDIT: Oh, and... GFWL was mentioned there. It was about as bad as yuplay, in that it was wholly unreliable and an ADDED layer of DRM on top of existing layers. It also forced you to save games on the cloud in most cases, but wiped the cloud weekly, thus resetting MANY games REPEATEDLY to the point that players stopped playing them en masse. GFWL actually closed a while back. It was that bad. They just shut down. No more server, nothing. A couple of games that used it modified themselves with a patch to bypass the entire GFWL checkin process, but a number were left out in the cold and are 100% unplayable now because of it. There's a reason GFWL shut down. It was unneccessary TRIBBLE.
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]