Lets put it this way. PWE/cryptic hasn't stated the treaty is null and void. They are god as far as this game is concerned and they hath spoken. If they should chose to change their mind, they might, till then, probably won't happen.
Move along, Move along.
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No they are both excatly the same. While at the inital conference Sela was there reprsenting the Empire she had since gone MIA. and I didn't see a Star Empire rep in that last mission. i have come to a fairly logical conclusion here. AND THERE IS NOTHING TO DISPROVE AS OF YET.
*sigh* You really don't like listening. You are gonna keep on keeping on with this. I'm done trying to argue with you. Wasn't even really an argument, more that you keep with the contradictions just so you can keep proving 'points' that have really no basis.
I was just trying to show that the Federation, ESPECIALLY with how goody-two-shoes they are would never do such a thing. I mean, that would just be really, REALLY stupid diplomatically to do. Any real life country pulling a stunt like that would have some major political repercussions against it.
Politics don't work the way you are trying to twist them to work.
Just like I assumed, still banging your head against the wall. Better call a medic.
I'm done trying to argue with him. This is basically another thread where a Feddie (a lone person at that) is basically trying to justify more cloaks for Feds. Really isn't much point to it considering that in PvE, unless you are a Romulan, cloak isn't a massive help, while in PvP, again I hear so often that 'PvP doesn't matter' and again, Romulans would still have the biggest advantage there.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The Treaty of Algeron, signed in 2311 by the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation of Planets, prohibited Federation cloaking devices. This agreement has been a source of controversy in Starfleet, where some officers believed it severely limited tactical options and put the Federation at a disadvantage.
Although the Federation initially agreed to follow the treaty after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, in early 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop and implement cloaking technology on selected ships.
The tooltip for the Fed cloaking device clearly states that, as of 2409, Starfleet is no longer abiding by the Treaty of Algeron.
*sigh* You really don't like listening. You are gonna keep on keeping on with this. I'm done trying to argue with you. Wasn't even really an argument, more that you keep with the contradictions just so you can keep proving 'points' that have really no basis.
I was just trying to show that the Federation, ESPECIALLY with how goody-two-shoes they are would never do such a thing. I mean, that would just be really, REALLY stupid diplomatically to do. Any real life country pulling a stunt like that would have some major political repercussions against it.
Politics don't work the way you are trying to twist them to work.
I'm done trying to argue with him. This is basically another thread where a Feddie (a lone person at that) is basically trying to justify more cloaks for Feds. Really isn't much point to it considering that in PvE, unless you are a Romulan, cloak isn't a massive help, while in PvP, again I hear so often that 'PvP doesn't matter' and again, Romulans would still have the biggest advantage there.
There is nothing evil about cloaking devices. what put it in your head that there was something evil about it. and take note on the post below yours. My Arguement is completely logical and it is you who screams and rants NO and don't bring much of a vailid arguement.
If they're verifiable then point them out. They'll be on memory alpha somewhere, as that is the star trek canon source. If you can't find that information anywhere then STFU! It's really just that simple. You can't make TRIBBLE up and then say it's verifiable.
It's you whose reading comprehension is lacking. I mentioned the defiant's cloak several times; and also pointed out that the rom government required a rom to be on the ship to make certain it wasn't misused.
I also mentioned the phase cloak the pegasus was using. I'll also point out that in the 12 years the pegasus was lost starfleet didn't make another phase cloak. If they had the ship they would've sent to recover the pegasus' cloak would have had a cloak of its own. Starfleet didn't have a secret cloaked ship to go and get its own cloak back after 12 years. You think they couldn't figure out how to make a working phase cloak in 12 years when geordi and data figured it out in a couple of hours?
Starfleet is not about cloaked ships. It never has been. None of the canon supports that. It's just the pvpers in this game who want to whine about how the kdf and roms are better because they can cloak, so the feds must have it too. It's the same whine for 4 years now; and the feds still have the same number of cloaks: 2, galaxy x and defiant.
No, you made the claim that his statements weren't factual. The burden is upon you to provide the contrary evidence.
It's common practice to shelve projects indefinitely when they end catastrophically, especially secret projects of a controversial nature. It's faulty logic on your part to ignore that. The Romulans are notorious for shelving secret projects that prove to be a major risk.
My comprehension isn't lacking simply because I didn't see the specific comment where you didn't omit a fact that you did omit later when it would contradict your argument.
Starfleet "is not about cloaked ships" is not valid argument. I am not about killing others, but if left with no other option, I would do what I have to protect myself or those I care about. Does my pacifist nature negate the possibility that I might kill someone if it was unavoidable? No, it does not. Neither does Starfleet's history of not using cloaking tech negate the possibility that they would do so under differing circumstances.
Another point your are incorrect about is that the Avenger can use cloaking technology provided that you've unlocked the Defiant or Galaxy-X. That's three ships. Gee golly! They added a new ship to the line-up and it comes compatible with cloaking tech! Do I recall suggesting that very thing earlier? Yes, I believe I did.
It's not whining, it's pragmatism. The fact that you make such a big fuss about not having Fed cloaking makes it clear you have a personal agenda that benefits you somehow.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
And the Federation President declares that the Federation will still abide by the treaty. It's the same stupid discussion all over again.
This only shows once more how wrecked the writing of STO has been (maybe, just maybe they start retconning some of the gravest mistakes though). In the end, there is no "game canon" justification on the matter. The Defiant Class and Galaxy Refit feature a cloak because the ships in the shows (the two individual ships, mind you) were shown being able to cloak and the Avenger doesn't come with it but can use it because it is a carbon copy of the Mogh and vice versa.
OP: Just let it go. Starfleet doesn't use cloak, the others do. That's how it works, live with it. Or roll a Romulan toon.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
And the Federation President declares that the Federation will still abide by the treaty. It's the same stupid discussion all over again.
The Treaty of Algeron, signed in 2311 by the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation of Planets, prohibited Federation cloaking devices. This agreement has been a source of controversy in Starfleet, where some officers believed it severely limited tactical options and put the Federation at a disadvantage.
Although the Federation initially agreed to follow the treaty after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, in early 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop and implement cloaking technology on selected ships.
The wiki says otherwise. Perhaps further investigation is necessary?
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
And the Federation President declares that the Federation will still abide by the treaty. It's the same stupid discussion all over again.
That part of the Path to 2409 took place in 2387, 22/23 years before the game takes place. Whatever the President said then is out of date right now.
EDIT:
I want to note that I don't support all FED ships getting cloaks, or any of them getting battle cloaks. It's always been my position that the current Cloak-capable ships should have integrated cloaks at no cost (just like Romulan and KDF ships), or failing that, that the Cloaking Device console becomes a Device. That's the extent I think cloaks should go for FED players.
Anyway, what's your point guys? That the IP should change because a few people want to have their cake and eat it, too? lol You're funny.
Then the President flipped his position. That's not that hard to believe. The in-game evidence clearly supports the position that the Feds aren't following the Treaty of Algeron anymore.
If your problem is the "IP being changed", then take it up with Cryptic. Feds already have cloaks.
Then the President flipped his position. That's not that hard to believe. The in-game evidence clearly supports the position that the Feds aren't following the Treaty of Algeron anymore.
Yes and Merlin the wizard casted a spell that prohibits the Federation's further use of cloaks. :rolleyes: So there.
Yes and Merlin the wizard casted a spell that prohibits the Federation's further use of cloaks. :rolleyes: So there.
It's not Cryptic devs sprouting these stupid ideas in this thread, it's people like the OP.
The OP wants all Fed ships to have cloaks, and I agree that it's a bad idea. But you still can't argue against the fact that Starfleet is openly developing cloaks and cloaking-capable ships. It's actually pretty insane that you're so willfully denying the cloaks already existing in-game.
The OP wants all Fed ships to have cloaks, and I agree that it's a bad idea. But you still can't argue against the fact that Starfleet is openly developing cloaks and cloaking-capable ships. It's actually pretty insane that you're so willfully denying the cloaks already existing in-game.
We're not discussing wheather there are Fed. ships with cloak already in game here in this thread. We're discussing wheather, as the OP said, all Federation ships should have cloak because he said so.
No, actually, 2392 was an election year. Aennik Okeg replaced Nanietta Bacco. It would appear Okeg loosened the restriction a little bit.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
No, actually, 2392 was an election year. Aennik Okeg replaced Nanietta Bacco. It would appear Okeg loosened the restriction a little bit.
It was Aennik Okeg that publicaly stated that regardless the state of the RSE, the Federation will uphold the treaty as an act of good will and display of the Federation's moral values.
We're not discussing wheather there are Fed. ships with cloak already in game here in this thread. We're discussing wheather, as the OP said, all Federation ships should have cloak because he said so.
Then why are you arguing about the Treaty of Algeron, instead of arguing about the balance/gameplay reasons why the Feds don't need cloaks?
It was Aennik Okeg that publicaly stated that regardless the state of the RSE, the Federation will uphold the treaty as an act of good will and display of the Federation's moral values.
Here's what I pulled from the Wiki:
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387. After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
Aennik Okeg's wiki page says he was elected in 2392, but the Path to 2409 states he was president in 2387. Sloppy writing on Cryptic's part, or sloppy Wikiing. I wouldn't know where to find Okeg's info in-game.
Then why are you arguing about the Treaty of Algeron, instead of arguing about the balance/gameplay reasons why the Feds don't need cloaks?
I'm not arguing about the Treaty of Algeron. I just pointed out that the Federation President, the one that is still in office currently, publicaly declared that the Federation will uphold the treaty regardless of the state of the RSE and even courtmartialed the Officers involved in the cloaking research, because the OP wants to say "The treaty is void" as a fact, when in fact - it's not.
What I'm actually arguing here is the fact that the IP didn't have cloaking Feds and I'd like to try and keep STO at least somewhat looking like Star Trek, not because of gameplay balance or otherwise.
In the shows, the Federation ships didn't cloak (with the exception of a single ship, the USS Defiant), therefore I'd like my Fed ships in STO to be balanced otherwise and without cloak. Why is this so difficult to understand for some?
I'm not arguing about the Treaty of Algeron. I just pointed out that the Federation President, the one that is still in office currently, publicaly declared that the Federation will uphold the treaty regardless of the state of the RSE and even courtmartialed the Officers involved in the cloaking research, because the OP wants to say "The treaty is void" as a fact, when in fact - it's not.
What I'm actually arguing here is the fact that the IP didn't have cloaking Feds and I'd like to try and keep STO at least somewhat looking like Star Trek, not because of gameplay balance or otherwise.
In the shows, the Federation ships didn't cloak (with the exception of a single ship, the USS Defiant), therefore I'd like my Fed ships in STO to be balanced otherwise and without cloak. Why is this so difficult to understand for some?
You are arguing about the Treaty of Algeron, as I've pointed out -- there is in-game evidence that clearly says Starfleet is no longer following the treaty. How or why doesn't matter, it simply is the way it is. You're trying to say one piece of Cryptic's writing is right, and another is wrong/doesn't exist, purely to support your own position. This is demonstrably wrong.
If you want to talk about the IP, Cryptic hasn't made more than the barest effort to be loyal to the IP in a long, long time. It's sad, because I kind of hate going into STFs and seeing Breen/Jem'hadar/Tholian/etc ships fighting alongside me, but that's just the way it is. There are teenage busty Admirals in hot pink cutoff uniforms with mini skirts in ESD. The IP is already dead in STO.
Look at memory alpha, the only reliable source for star trek canon, and you will see that aside from Enterprise borrowing a suliban cloak and kirk hijacking a BoP the only Federation vessels to have used cloak are the defiant, galaxy-X and Oberth.
And the 30-sec phase cloak run by the Enterprise-D, but that hardly qualifies.
There is no canon information that the treaty of Algeron was abandoned and ingame lore clearly states that the Federation intends to uphold the treaty.
Now that that is out of the way i am sure you can see there is no ground for all federation vessels to gain access to cloak or battle cloak.
The only questions which we need to ask is if we want all regular cloaks to be transformed into "battle cloak" and just how bad we want a phase cloak oberth.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
There is no canon information that the treaty of Algeron was abandoned and ingame lore clearly states that the Federation intends to uphold the treaty.
You are arguing about the Treaty of Algeron, as I've pointed out -- there is in-game evidence that clearly says Starfleet is no longer following the treaty. How or why doesn't matter, it simply is the way it is. You're trying to say one piece of Cryptic's writing is right, and another is wrong/doesn't exist, purely to support your own position. This is demonstrably wrong.
You got me wrong. One thing I've always been very clear on is that Cryptic's writing is a hot mess and doesn't make sense at all most of the time.
I didn't take a pro one-piece of writing to support my position, I took that stance because I believe that 'The Path to 2409' official lore is more relevant than console descriptions. But I guess we can just agree that there's no way to know the current situation, because the way it's all written and displayed is a complete mess.
If you want to talk about the IP, Cryptic hasn't made more than the barest effort to be loyal to the IP in a long, long time. It's sad, because I kind of hate going into STFs and seeing Breen/Jem'hadar/Tholian/etc ships fighting alongside me, but that's just the way it is. There are teenage busty Admirals in hot pink cutoff uniforms with mini skirts in ESD. The IP is already dead in STO.
And I keep hearing this argument awfully lot lately, while the spirit of ST is dying piece by piece from this game because of arguments just like this one.
So I take it I'd have your support then for a 'Magical Lockbox' with a flying broomstick prize and a Dragon in the Lobi Store, right? I mean, since the IP is already dead, why can't I have my cake, too?
But more importantly, why does it have to be cloak? Why does it always have to be 'what that other guy has' in these threads? Why not some buff or enhancement in the spirit of Starfleet, like innate cloak detection ability or something like that?
You'd have no arguments against from me for an idea like that, I just don't want this game to entirely lose it's focus from Star Trek and become completely ridiculous. I know it's a thin line already, but do we really need to support further crossing of it?
And again, Memory Alpha is the ONLY source for star trek canon. Not some random wiki, not memory beta or gamma. Only and only Memory Alpha.
We have Klingon, federation and romulan players alike going double facepalm since you cannot get this simple fact straight.
As a fellow federation player i urge you to stop posting and embarrassing the whole faction.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
And I keep hearing this argument awfully lot lately, while the spirit of ST is dying piece by piece from this game because of arguments just like this one.
So I take it I'd have your support then for a 'Magical Lockbox' with a flying broomstick prize and a Dragon in the Lobi Store, right? I mean, since the IP is already dead, why can't I have my cake, too?
But more importantly, why does it have to be cloak? Why does it always have to be 'what that other guy has' in these threads? Why not some buff or enhancement in the spirit of Starfleet, like innate cloak detection ability or something like that?
You'd have no arguments against from me for an idea like that, I just don't want this game to entirely lose it's focus from Star Trek and become completely ridiculous. I know it's a thin line already, but do we really need to support further crossing of it?
Just because I said the IP is dead doesn't mean I'd support "a magical lockbox with flying broomsticks". You're making a strawman out of me.
And the reason cloaks are a hot topic right now is because of the Romulans -- Romulans and KDF ships get their cloaks at no cost, while Feds have to use up a console slot. This is simply an outdated balance practice from before Romulans were in the game, and some parity between all three factions re:cloaks isn't a bad thing (especially if Cryptic ever wants a balanced PVP, but that's another conversation).
Again, I don't support all Fed ships getting cloaks, or any getting Battle cloaks. Feds shouldn't be needlessly penalized for the cloaks they DO have, though.
And again, Memory Alpha is the ONLY source for star trek canon. Not some random wiki, not memory beta or gamma. Only and only Memory Alpha.
We have Klingon, federation and romulan players alike going double facepalm since you cannot get this simple fact straight.
As a fellow federation player i urge you to stop posting and embarrassing the whole faction.
I can provide a screenshot of the cloak in-game if you'd like, but I guarantee it's word-for-word identical to what's written in the wiki.
Memory Alpha deals with the films and TV shows. STO is a soft-canon at best. The game already has three Fed ships that can cloak, and no article on Memory Alpha is going to change that.
(also, you can't just discredit someone with "wiki source", and then go on to state that another wiki is totally valid and perfect you guys seriously)
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
That's ingame lore and thus the end of the discussion. Now that the advice offered earlier.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
That's ingame lore and thus the end of the discussion. Now that the advice offered earlier.
In-game lore that's dated to 2387. Mine is dated to 2409. Mine is more recent than yours.
Discussion over. Maybe you should follow your own advice.
Here's some more advice: Maybe try reading some of the thread you wanna post in before rolling in and acting all smart. You'll avoid making an TRIBBLE of yourself by retreading points already discussed.
From a guy who does sometimes wishes all his ships could have a cloak, but really? What is a cloak good for anyway? Unless your a Romulan or fly a B'rell class (sorry dont know how to spell that off the top of my head) cloaks are all but useless usless you fly a Scimitar for combat. So is it really worth taking up any slots that could be used to make a ship more tanky or what ever your build is? I mean come on, eather way, if we do get one for every ship great! If not, great! It is not really worth fighting over anymore is it?
why do feds need a cloak is what ppl should be asking other then i want it!!!! or other then they got one so i must have it trows tantrum!!!!! i mean not really going to make any better at pve then all ready are so why do feds need one?
I don't think they should all have cloak, just some new ships with a phase cloak. It's not like Feds can't cloak any ship they like. There's always Mask Energy Signature. Science ships can use MES III.
Unless you're specifically geared for cloak detection, MES III is just as good as any basic cloak. So there's really no point in adding cloak to older ships.
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Try a Battle Cloak, really. I think most of these threads would be cured if more people did so.
Try running a Ha'feh, or (better yet) a Hegh'ta, and figure out how to do the decloaking game. You don't even have to spend actual money for a Ha'feh or Hegh'ta. Just your level 40 token. If you knew what the cloaking game entails in a fight, maybe you wouldn't care for it.
If you find you're doing it more than for the Alpha strike, then great. Maybe it's worth the endless cycle of arguments.
Just watch what Romulan and KDF Raider captains do if you don't care to know what it means to Battle Cloak. Yes, it's nice to have the option, but I'd say it's mostly underutilized outside of Alpha Striking & running away... mainly because recloaking is taking your foot off the gasoline pedal, and having the discipline to do that & knowing when you can do that is all rather uncommon, especially since most things blow up really quickly after a proper Alpha strike.
And if you love the Battle Cloak style of play, then be a proper Klingon or Romulan Captain as Roddenberry intended!
Comments
Move along, Move along.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
*sigh* You really don't like listening. You are gonna keep on keeping on with this. I'm done trying to argue with you. Wasn't even really an argument, more that you keep with the contradictions just so you can keep proving 'points' that have really no basis.
I was just trying to show that the Federation, ESPECIALLY with how goody-two-shoes they are would never do such a thing. I mean, that would just be really, REALLY stupid diplomatically to do. Any real life country pulling a stunt like that would have some major political repercussions against it.
Politics don't work the way you are trying to twist them to work.
I'm done trying to argue with him. This is basically another thread where a Feddie (a lone person at that) is basically trying to justify more cloaks for Feds. Really isn't much point to it considering that in PvE, unless you are a Romulan, cloak isn't a massive help, while in PvP, again I hear so often that 'PvP doesn't matter' and again, Romulans would still have the biggest advantage there.
The tooltip for the Fed cloaking device clearly states that, as of 2409, Starfleet is no longer abiding by the Treaty of Algeron.
There is nothing evil about cloaking devices. what put it in your head that there was something evil about it. and take note on the post below yours. My Arguement is completely logical and it is you who screams and rants NO and don't bring much of a vailid arguement.
And the Federation President declares that the Federation will still abide by the treaty. It's the same stupid discussion all over again.
No, you made the claim that his statements weren't factual. The burden is upon you to provide the contrary evidence.
It's common practice to shelve projects indefinitely when they end catastrophically, especially secret projects of a controversial nature. It's faulty logic on your part to ignore that. The Romulans are notorious for shelving secret projects that prove to be a major risk.
My comprehension isn't lacking simply because I didn't see the specific comment where you didn't omit a fact that you did omit later when it would contradict your argument.
Starfleet "is not about cloaked ships" is not valid argument. I am not about killing others, but if left with no other option, I would do what I have to protect myself or those I care about. Does my pacifist nature negate the possibility that I might kill someone if it was unavoidable? No, it does not. Neither does Starfleet's history of not using cloaking tech negate the possibility that they would do so under differing circumstances.
Another point your are incorrect about is that the Avenger can use cloaking technology provided that you've unlocked the Defiant or Galaxy-X. That's three ships. Gee golly! They added a new ship to the line-up and it comes compatible with cloaking tech! Do I recall suggesting that very thing earlier? Yes, I believe I did.
It's not whining, it's pragmatism. The fact that you make such a big fuss about not having Fed cloaking makes it clear you have a personal agenda that benefits you somehow.
This only shows once more how wrecked the writing of STO has been (maybe, just maybe they start retconning some of the gravest mistakes though). In the end, there is no "game canon" justification on the matter. The Defiant Class and Galaxy Refit feature a cloak because the ships in the shows (the two individual ships, mind you) were shown being able to cloak and the Avenger doesn't come with it but can use it because it is a carbon copy of the Mogh and vice versa.
OP: Just let it go. Starfleet doesn't use cloak, the others do. That's how it works, live with it. Or roll a Romulan toon.
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The wiki says otherwise. Perhaps further investigation is necessary?
That part of the Path to 2409 took place in 2387, 22/23 years before the game takes place. Whatever the President said then is out of date right now.
EDIT:
I want to note that I don't support all FED ships getting cloaks, or any of them getting battle cloaks. It's always been my position that the current Cloak-capable ships should have integrated cloaks at no cost (just like Romulan and KDF ships), or failing that, that the Cloaking Device console becomes a Device. That's the extent I think cloaks should go for FED players.
It's still the same President.
Anyway, what's your point guys? That the IP should change because a few people want to have their cake and eat it, too? lol
Then the President flipped his position. That's not that hard to believe. The in-game evidence clearly supports the position that the Feds aren't following the Treaty of Algeron anymore.
If your problem is the "IP being changed", then take it up with Cryptic. Feds already have cloaks.
Yes and Merlin the wizard casted a spell that prohibits the Federation's further use of cloaks. :rolleyes: So there.
It's not Cryptic devs sprouting these stupid ideas in this thread, it's people like the OP.
The OP wants all Fed ships to have cloaks, and I agree that it's a bad idea. But you still can't argue against the fact that Starfleet is openly developing cloaks and cloaking-capable ships. It's actually pretty insane that you're so willfully denying the cloaks already existing in-game.
We're not discussing wheather there are Fed. ships with cloak already in game here in this thread. We're discussing wheather, as the OP said, all Federation ships should have cloak because he said so.
No, actually, 2392 was an election year. Aennik Okeg replaced Nanietta Bacco. It would appear Okeg loosened the restriction a little bit.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It was Aennik Okeg that publicaly stated that regardless the state of the RSE, the Federation will uphold the treaty as an act of good will and display of the Federation's moral values.
Then why are you arguing about the Treaty of Algeron, instead of arguing about the balance/gameplay reasons why the Feds don't need cloaks?
EDIT:
Here's what I pulled from the Wiki:
Aennik Okeg's wiki page says he was elected in 2392, but the Path to 2409 states he was president in 2387. Sloppy writing on Cryptic's part, or sloppy Wikiing. I wouldn't know where to find Okeg's info in-game.
I'm not arguing about the Treaty of Algeron. I just pointed out that the Federation President, the one that is still in office currently, publicaly declared that the Federation will uphold the treaty regardless of the state of the RSE and even courtmartialed the Officers involved in the cloaking research, because the OP wants to say "The treaty is void" as a fact, when in fact - it's not.
What I'm actually arguing here is the fact that the IP didn't have cloaking Feds and I'd like to try and keep STO at least somewhat looking like Star Trek, not because of gameplay balance or otherwise.
In the shows, the Federation ships didn't cloak (with the exception of a single ship, the USS Defiant), therefore I'd like my Fed ships in STO to be balanced otherwise and without cloak. Why is this so difficult to understand for some?
You are arguing about the Treaty of Algeron, as I've pointed out -- there is in-game evidence that clearly says Starfleet is no longer following the treaty. How or why doesn't matter, it simply is the way it is. You're trying to say one piece of Cryptic's writing is right, and another is wrong/doesn't exist, purely to support your own position. This is demonstrably wrong.
If you want to talk about the IP, Cryptic hasn't made more than the barest effort to be loyal to the IP in a long, long time. It's sad, because I kind of hate going into STFs and seeing Breen/Jem'hadar/Tholian/etc ships fighting alongside me, but that's just the way it is. There are teenage busty Admirals in hot pink cutoff uniforms with mini skirts in ESD. The IP is already dead in STO.
Look at memory alpha, the only reliable source for star trek canon, and you will see that aside from Enterprise borrowing a suliban cloak and kirk hijacking a BoP the only Federation vessels to have used cloak are the defiant, galaxy-X and Oberth.
And the 30-sec phase cloak run by the Enterprise-D, but that hardly qualifies.
There is no canon information that the treaty of Algeron was abandoned and ingame lore clearly states that the Federation intends to uphold the treaty.
Now that that is out of the way i am sure you can see there is no ground for all federation vessels to gain access to cloak or battle cloak.
The only questions which we need to ask is if we want all regular cloaks to be transformed into "battle cloak" and just how bad we want a phase cloak oberth.
I already proved this statement wrong.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16631841&postcount=124
You got me wrong. One thing I've always been very clear on is that Cryptic's writing is a hot mess and doesn't make sense at all most of the time.
I didn't take a pro one-piece of writing to support my position, I took that stance because I believe that 'The Path to 2409' official lore is more relevant than console descriptions. But I guess we can just agree that there's no way to know the current situation, because the way it's all written and displayed is a complete mess.
And I keep hearing this argument awfully lot lately, while the spirit of ST is dying piece by piece from this game because of arguments just like this one.
So I take it I'd have your support then for a 'Magical Lockbox' with a flying broomstick prize and a Dragon in the Lobi Store, right? I mean, since the IP is already dead, why can't I have my cake, too?
But more importantly, why does it have to be cloak? Why does it always have to be 'what that other guy has' in these threads? Why not some buff or enhancement in the spirit of Starfleet, like innate cloak detection ability or something like that?
You'd have no arguments against from me for an idea like that, I just don't want this game to entirely lose it's focus from Star Trek and become completely ridiculous. I know it's a thin line already, but do we really need to support further crossing of it?
Wiki source.
And again, Memory Alpha is the ONLY source for star trek canon. Not some random wiki, not memory beta or gamma. Only and only Memory Alpha.
We have Klingon, federation and romulan players alike going double facepalm since you cannot get this simple fact straight.
As a fellow federation player i urge you to stop posting and embarrassing the whole faction.
Just because I said the IP is dead doesn't mean I'd support "a magical lockbox with flying broomsticks". You're making a strawman out of me.
And the reason cloaks are a hot topic right now is because of the Romulans -- Romulans and KDF ships get their cloaks at no cost, while Feds have to use up a console slot. This is simply an outdated balance practice from before Romulans were in the game, and some parity between all three factions re:cloaks isn't a bad thing (especially if Cryptic ever wants a balanced PVP, but that's another conversation).
Again, I don't support all Fed ships getting cloaks, or any getting Battle cloaks. Feds shouldn't be needlessly penalized for the cloaks they DO have, though.
I can provide a screenshot of the cloak in-game if you'd like, but I guarantee it's word-for-word identical to what's written in the wiki.
Memory Alpha deals with the films and TV shows. STO is a soft-canon at best. The game already has three Fed ships that can cloak, and no article on Memory Alpha is going to change that.
(also, you can't just discredit someone with "wiki source", and then go on to state that another wiki is totally valid and perfect you guys seriously)
That's ingame lore and thus the end of the discussion. Now that the advice offered earlier.
In-game lore that's dated to 2387. Mine is dated to 2409. Mine is more recent than yours.
Discussion over. Maybe you should follow your own advice.
Here's some more advice: Maybe try reading some of the thread you wanna post in before rolling in and acting all smart. You'll avoid making an TRIBBLE of yourself by retreading points already discussed.
does not any one like being unique?
system Lord Baal is dead
Unless you're specifically geared for cloak detection, MES III is just as good as any basic cloak. So there's really no point in adding cloak to older ships.
Try running a Ha'feh, or (better yet) a Hegh'ta, and figure out how to do the decloaking game. You don't even have to spend actual money for a Ha'feh or Hegh'ta. Just your level 40 token. If you knew what the cloaking game entails in a fight, maybe you wouldn't care for it.
If you find you're doing it more than for the Alpha strike, then great. Maybe it's worth the endless cycle of arguments.
Just watch what Romulan and KDF Raider captains do if you don't care to know what it means to Battle Cloak. Yes, it's nice to have the option, but I'd say it's mostly underutilized outside of Alpha Striking & running away... mainly because recloaking is taking your foot off the gasoline pedal, and having the discipline to do that & knowing when you can do that is all rather uncommon, especially since most things blow up really quickly after a proper Alpha strike.
And if you love the Battle Cloak style of play, then be a proper Klingon or Romulan Captain as Roddenberry intended!
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)