Yes I do because the treaty the ONLY thing keeping the feds from having cloaks could be null and void. The Republic has taken the RSE's place since he has said that and a new accord made on that premise. the Repbulic is not the RSE so unless put in any agreement between Fed and RSE does not apply to the Republic.
You saying the treaty is null and void doesn't mean that the Federation thinks it is.
Even if it is, the Federation could chose to uphold the treaty anyway. So again, you haven't actually really shown anything other than "I want cloaks because I think that the Federation would make them because of a future that never happened."
STO is not a potential future of anything. STO is a hot mess with storylines all over the place. STO is a theme park for anyone that wants to get his/hers favourite ST ride and that's about it.
If the Federation really was at war with everyone like it is in STO, there would be no Federation by 2409. Or a Klingon Empire for that matter.
Using a figment of Q's imagination as an argument for the Federation getting cloaks, in spite of everything seen in 5 ST TV shows and 10 movies is a very very weak argument and you know it.
All those movies and shows show you that the Federation takes it's treaties seriously. And even if it was a figment he had to make it beleivable. Otherwise why wouldn't picard make a fuss about Riker's ED having a cloak. He wouldn't because the TREATY NO LONGER APPLIES. No gratned STo story has some major issues. but the basic premise is similaur to All Good Things. Heck the inital reason for the Fed KDF war is based off of DS9's story arc. And goiung by the movies Nemesis leaves us with many things. ONE most of the formal Romulan government is gone. Shinzon killed them. so no clear line of sucession so undoubably some choas of the time. Hence why the Titan is going. So all of the RSE is in flux right now. STo took it a bit further and with LOR brought in a new player. In truth there's no logical arguement against the Feds trying at this point in the game.
You saying the treaty is null and void doesn't mean that the Federation thinks it is.
Even if it is, the Federation could chose to uphold the treaty anyway. So again, you haven't actually really shown anything other than "I want cloaks because I think that the Federation would make them because of a future that never happened."
What AM saying is there there is potential. If the devs and CBS say the Republic signed a updated treaty of Algeron with the ban in then that's how it is. but going by the events of the LOR update we have a magor grey area which is even more by the facr is that prez still in office. they may have elected a new one since. THis is a VERY GREY AREA.
What AM saying is there there is potential. If the devs and CBS say the Republic signed a updated treaty of Algeron with the ban in then that's how it is. but going by the events of the LOR update we have a magor grey area which is even more by the facr is that prez still in office. they may have elected a new one since. THis is a VERY GREY AREA.
Even if they don't have the treaty with the Romulan Republic, they can still chose to uphold it. What part of this don't you understand?
You can say it's a gray area, but you seem to be ignoring things that don't work your way in this, like the Federation wanting to uphold the treaty despite what has happened to the Romulans.
No, he is not making stuff up. They're completely verifiable facts.
If they're verifiable then point them out. They'll be on memory alpha somewhere, as that is the star trek canon source. If you can't find that information anywhere then STFU! It's really just that simple. You can't make TRIBBLE up and then say it's verifiable.
1. Pointing out facts is not "making up TRIBBLE". Everything he said is either fact or conclusions based those facts. The Pegasus project was done in secret so as not to alert the Romulans until they had a cloaking system superior to Romulan technology, but they failed. Picard exposed the existence of the cloak to protect the tenuous peace between the two factions, not because "Feds don't cloak". There was also the Defiant, which had a cloak on loan from the Romulans, but you conveniently omitted that fact.
It's you whose reading comprehension is lacking. I mentioned the defiant's cloak several times; and also pointed out that the rom government required a rom to be on the ship to make certain it wasn't misused.
I also mentioned the phase cloak the pegasus was using. I'll also point out that in the 12 years the pegasus was lost starfleet didn't make another phase cloak. If they had the ship they would've sent to recover the pegasus' cloak would have had a cloak of its own. Starfleet didn't have a secret cloaked ship to go and get its own cloak back after 12 years. You think they couldn't figure out how to make a working phase cloak in 12 years when geordi and data figured it out in a couple of hours?
Starfleet is not about cloaked ships. It never has been. None of the canon supports that. It's just the pvpers in this game who want to whine about how the kdf and roms are better because they can cloak, so the feds must have it too. It's the same whine for 4 years now; and the feds still have the same number of cloaks: 2, galaxy x and defiant.
All those movies and shows show you that the Federation takes it's treaties seriously. And even if it was a figment he had to make it beleivable. Otherwise why wouldn't picard make a fuss about Riker's ED having a cloak. He wouldn't because the TREATY NO LONGER APPLIES. No gratned STo story has some major issues. but the basic premise is similaur to All Good Things. Heck the inital reason for the Fed KDF war is based off of DS9's story arc. And goiung by the movies Nemesis leaves us with many things. ONE most of the formal Romulan government is gone. Shinzon killed them. so no clear line of sucession so undoubably some choas of the time. Hence why the Titan is going. So all of the RSE is in flux right now. STo took it a bit further and with LOR brought in a new player. In truth there's no logical arguement against the Feds trying at this point in the game.
LOL You're mixing imaginary futures, Q's games, non-cannon books and your own imagination into an argument that is suposed to show us something. Just, it makes no sense at all, so no wonder it doesn't convince us so far.
Let me try again very plainly:
The Federation should and will not have cloaking technology because the Federation is a faction in a franchise called Star Trek, a franchise built around the premise that the Federation does not use cloaking. This game is liscenced by IP holder of that franchise. How hard is it to understand? Do you understand the words that are comming out of my mouth? :P
Can I ask one REAL stupid question. D'Tan made overtures to the federation to become allies. How do we not know one of his stipulations is that his government requires the Federation to continue to observe the Treaty?
Can we think about that before saying the treaty is null and void.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Can I ask one REAL stupid question. D'Tan made overtures to the federation to become allies. How do we not know one of his stipulations is that his government requires the Federation to continue to observe the Treaty?
Can we think about that before saying the treaty is null and void.
Then again, if the Romulan republic wanted aid from the federation then perhaps usage of cloaking technology or even direct delivery of cloaking technology to the federation was used as payment for that aid.
If i recall correctly the Klingons got cloaking tech in exchange for D7 cruisers during a previous short lived alliance between Romulus and the Klingons.
As for me, i loath the artificial rule of no cloaking while under fire. Turn a regular cloak into what is currently known as battle cloak. While the federation will benefit, the KDF will be the one who benefits the most from this change.
As for the Oberth and Phase cloak, it's canon. Though the research was illegal this does not change that the Pegasus, an Oberth class, was equipped with a prototype Phase cloak.
As long as the console is either integrated into the Oberth (or a T4/5 version) or is only usable on the Oberth i would love to see the Oberth/Phase Cloak combination.
It's not as if even a T5 Oberth would be a game changer.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Can I ask one REAL stupid question. D'Tan made overtures to the federation to become allies. How do we not know one of his stipulations is that his government requires the Federation to continue to observe the Treaty?
Can we think about that before saying the treaty is null and void.
SILENCE! Nothing must get in the way of my dream of getting a T5 "Phased Secondary Shielding Cloaked Barrage Ablative Armor Generating Battle Cloaked" Miranda!
Too much cloak envy, when there are already 2 playable factions with an abundance of cloaks, and wishing for a faction that traditionally didn't use Cloaks for the ENTIRETY OF THE STAR TREK FRANCHISE.
But honestly did anybody stop to think about the question I posed. For 10 pages nobody brought it up.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Correction: Too much whining from one particular segment of them. My main's a Fed and my Rom is Fed-aligned, but I've never felt the need for Feds to have cloak. I don't even know why the Avenger is cloak-capable, because 99% of those of us who command them don't have a cloak on it.
But honestly did anybody stop to think about the question I posed. For 10 pages nobody brought it up.
I think we missed it in the midst of yelling at the OP for being an idiot. What was the question?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Even if they don't have the treaty with the Romulan Republic, they can still chose to uphold it. What part of this don't you understand?
You can say it's a gray area, but you seem to be ignoring things that don't work your way in this, like the Federation wanting to uphold the treaty despite what has happened to the Romulans.
Uphold a treaty with a power that nolonger exists, yeah that makes sense. If it was a condition in the treaty recognizing the Republic I'll by it.
LOL You're mixing imaginary futures, Q's games, non-cannon books and your own imagination into an argument that is suposed to show us something. Just, it makes no sense at all, so no wonder it doesn't convince us so far.
Let me try again very plainly:
The Federation should and will not have cloaking technology because the Federation is a faction in a franchise called Star Trek, a franchise built around the premise that the Federation does not use cloaking. This game is liscenced by IP holder of that franchise. How hard is it to understand? Do you understand the words that are comming out of my mouth? :P
again why not? the ONLY that kept them from Cloaks was the treaty and note Defiant used it quite often to great effect. With my suggestion the fed and KDF will be roughly on par or KDF better since most of the BOP line has BC while I only suggest TWO ships to have it.
Can I ask one REAL stupid question. D'Tan made overtures to the federation to become allies. How do we not know one of his stipulations is that his government requires the Federation to continue to observe the Treaty?
Can we think about that before saying the treaty is null and void.
Yes it could I never said it couldn't. But until we see the full document of the New Romulus treaty ALgeron is null and void from LOR onward.
Uphold a treaty with a power that nolonger exists, yeah that makes sense. If it was a condition in the treaty recognizing the Republic I'll by it.
Ok, here's something else for you to ignore:
If a real life power of some kind breaks apart or is conquered, does the USA immediately stop following all treaties in regards to that country? Last I checked, no. At the very least the USA would say 'we don't recognize the nation in question has been conquered', like the government-in-exile of France during WW2.
Good example being the collapse of the USSR. Yeah, the USSR stopped existing as a political power, but as far as I can remember, Russia, the core country of the Soviet Union was still a very large, very powerful country. Those treaties didn't magically disappear out of convenience, especially the really big ones like in regards to nuclear weapons, and all that other fun Cold War stuff that our parents had to grow up in.
Same thing really applies here. Federation ain't gonna just out and out drop treaties because there is no lack of significant Romulan power. You bring up 'All good things' as a reasoning for Feds having cloak as in that timeline, the Klingons had completely conquered the Romulans (though we aren't given the full details of that particular situation though either).
So, in that timeline, the Federation used cloaks, or at LEAST Riker's refit of the Ent-D did. Thus that means at some point, the Federation acknowledged that the Romulan Star Empire had completely ceased to exist as a political entity, and there were no Romulan powerbases with which they would continue the Treaty of Algeron with.
That doesn't apply here. Is the Romulan Star Empire fractured and weakened? Yes. Is it completely destroyed as a political body? No. Is there still SOME form of political body for the Romulan people? Yes there is, in both the weakened RSE, and the still rather young Romulan Republic.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
If a real life power of some kind breaks apart or is conquered, does the USA immediately stop following all treaties in regards to that country? Last I checked, no. At the very least the USA would say 'we don't recognize the nation in question has been conquered', like the government-in-exile of France during WW2.
Good example being the collapse of the USSR. Yeah, the USSR stopped existing as a political power, but as far as I can remember, Russia, the core country of the Soviet Union was still a very large, very powerful country. Those treaties didn't magically disappear out of convenience, especially the really big ones like in regards to nuclear weapons, and all that other fun Cold War stuff that our parents had to grow up in.
Same thing really applies here. Federation ain't gonna just out and out drop treaties because there is no lack of significant Romulan power. You bring up 'All good things' as a reasoning for Feds having cloak as in that timeline, the Klingons had completely conquered the Romulans (though we aren't given the full details of that particular situation though either).
So, in that timeline, the Federation used cloaks, or at LEAST Riker's refit of the Ent-D did. Thus that means at some point, the Federation acknowledged that the Romulan Star Empire had completely ceased to exist as a political entity, and there were no Romulan powerbases with which they would continue the Treaty of Algeron with.
That doesn't apply here. Is the Romulan Star Empire fractured and weakened? Yes. Is it completely destroyed as a political body? No. Is there still SOME form of political body for the Romulan people? Yes there is, in both the weakened RSE, and the still rather young Romulan Republic.
Perhaps the treaties with the USSR and the USA were renewed which is logical and we make new ones with them every now and then. However do you think the Federation should uphold treaties with the True Way? They and the RSE are exactly the same now. Have some planets and a military force but is the True Way Recognized as a power or just a renegage group. As for the Republic. Yes it is young and a completely new government on a new planet forged primarly by Romulans and Remans. It;s a completely new power thus no treaties apply to dealing with it. now could the part of banning fed cloaks be incorperated into the New Romulas treaty. yes. In which case i will back off. But it could not be in the treaty thus Algeron null and void and thus fed use of cloaks. And the Republic could have agreed for use of cloaks in return for aid.
Uphold a treaty with a power that nolonger exists, yeah that makes sense. If it was a condition in the treaty recognizing the Republic I'll by it.
Makes about as much sense as you using All Good Things are proof of what should happen.
Nations can uphold whatever treaties they want, even if both parties involved are not around. What is means is that if they decide that the treaty is no longer valid, which the Federation hasn't for the Treaty of Algeron in STO, then there's no one to complain to them.
Makes about as much sense as you using All Good Things are proof of what should happen.
Nations can uphold whatever treaties they want, even if both parties involved are not around. What is means is that if they decide that the treaty is no longer valid, which the Federation hasn't for the Treaty of Algeron in STO, then there's no one to complain to them.
So should we still uphold the agreements we had with TRIBBLE Germany, or the Austro Hungary empire? Again the RSE is now in the same boat as True Way. And All Good things is an excelent example considering how many things are similar between STO and All Good Things. are there differences YES but it's a good guideline.
So should we still uphold the agreements we had with TRIBBLE Germany, or the Austro Hungary empire? Again the RSE is now in the same boat as True Way. And All Good things is an excelent example considering how many things are similar between STO and All Good Things. are there differences YES but it's a good guideline.
I said if they choose to. Nothing is saying they have to. Which, again, the Federation seems to be choosing to uphold the treaty.
I said if they choose to. Nothing is saying they have to. Which, again, the Federation seems to be choosing to uphold the treaty.
And that choice can always change. Again that prez made that choice BEFORE the events of LOR. Two he made have made that choice but the Council could overide him and he may now be out of office by now depending on where in the term he was.
And that choice can always change. Again that prez made that choice BEFORE the events of LOR. Two he made have made that choice but the Council could overide him and he may now be out of office by now depending on where in the term he was.
It's only been a year since we left the academy in game. I doubt that there's been that massive a change in a year.
Either way, to be perfectly honest, I prefer the game where the Federation doesn't have extensive use to cloaking technology. Keeps more true to the series.
It's only been a year since we left the academy in game. I doubt that there's been that massive a change in a year.
Either way, to be perfectly honest, I prefer the game where the Federation doesn't have extensive use to cloaking technology. Keeps more true to the series.
yet somehow in that year we go from academy to Vice Admiral and we see the collapse ofthe RSE, the formation of the Romulan Republic, return of the Iconians AND a non agression treaty with the KDF
Perhaps the treaties with the USSR and the USA were renewed which is logical and we make new ones with them every now and then. However do you think the Federation should uphold treaties with the True Way? They and the RSE are exactly the same now. Have some planets and a military force but is the True Way Recognized as a power or just a renegage group. As for the Republic. Yes it is young and a completely new government on a new planet forged primarly by Romulans and Remans. It;s a completely new power thus no treaties apply to dealing with it. now could the part of banning fed cloaks be incorperated into the New Romulas treaty. yes. In which case i will back off. But it could not be in the treaty thus Algeron null and void and thus fed use of cloaks. And the Republic could have agreed for use of cloaks in return for aid.
You are trying to twist the True Way into being the same thing as some of the others. A better comparison would honestly be the True Way vs the rogue Tal Shiar.
The True Way isn't recognized as a political entity by the Federation because they CHOOSE not to do so. The Federation as it's own political, sovereign body considers the True Way to be entirely rogue elements within the Cardassian state. Now in the treaties between the Feds and Cardassians, sure the Federation will help out, but even so, to the Federation, the True Way has no political power.
Did the USSR and USA probably renew treaties and such? Yes. But the more important thing is that the United States, after the fall of the Soviet Union looked at the new Russian Federation and said, 'we consider you to be the main successor state of the Soviet Union'.
Y'see, part of being a nation in our modern world, and having other countries actually do stuff with you, like trading, or making treaties, is that they CHOOSE to ACKNOWLEDGE your sovereignty. I'm not saying that you cannot make it work, but you have to have the resources and such to go beyond that. Good example of this being communist China, and how even to some countries they will still not recognize the legality of their government, even with the superpower that China has become.
Same thing really applies for the Federation. They choose to say 'we recognize the RSE as an entity, but also the RR as well'. So, that also could include that they might consider the RR a successor state (however young) to the RSE in some form or fashion. Whether or not any treaties would include the banning of cloaks on Fed ships (as no direct mention is said of this at all in the game) can obviously be debated, but even so, the Federation recognizes the RR as a political power. Same thing goes for the Klingon Empire willingly choosing to do the same thing and also make treaties.
yet somehow in that year we go from academy to Vice Admiral and we see the collapse ofthe RSE, the formation of the Romulan Republic, return of the Iconians AND a non agression treaty with the KDF
It's an MMO. Time slows to a standstill in these types of games. On top of that, your character is always 'the special'*, the one that saves the day, keeps the universe from ending, etc.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Uphold a treaty with a power that nolonger exists, yeah that makes sense. If it was a condition in the treaty recognizing the Republic I'll by it.
Yes it could I never said it couldn't. But until we see the full document of the New Romulus treaty ALgeron is null and void from LOR onward.
It's still on the map, therefore it still exists, nothing in Legacy of Romulus even changed its status. The conference that led to the alliance of the Republic with both the Federation and the Klingon Empire was attended by Sela. All of the episodes of the Romulan faction arc take place before she disappears, and no mention is made of the Star Empire falling into chaos with her gone. At best, the fate of the Star Empire post-Cutting the Cord has yet to be determined. Rumors of its demise, as of now, are greatly exaggerated.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Thinly veiled request to get feddies the FOTM Vaper build... Spotted and so recognized...
On that note, I'll actually go "on board" with this, however, I'll bring up an argument I haven't seen in all 12 pages so far...
If everyone gets full cloaking ability, then everyone needs to have full cloaking detection.
Ker'rat? Won't be "let's all hide and wait for the first bonehead", it'll be "first one willing to decloak wins"...
PvP? Same thing. First decloak wins... And suddenly slotting that torpedo becomes en vogue again, as a lot more torp hits will be impacting bare hull (remember, cloak means no shields unless you're a FAW-itar with that shielded cloak console...). Here's wondering how many of these players will feel when a torp crits on their hull for the infamous one-shot... And yes, there's enough torps with high enough damage numbers to suddenly return the glass to glass cannon escorts, and science ships will be at a severe disadvantage if they aren't paying attention...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
You are trying to twist the True Way into being the same thing as some of the others. A better comparison would honestly be the True Way vs the rogue Tal Shiar.
The True Way isn't recognized as a political entity by the Federation because they CHOOSE not to do so. The Federation as it's own political, sovereign body considers the True Way to be entirely rogue elements within the Cardassian state. Now in the treaties between the Feds and Cardassians, sure the Federation will help out, but even so, to the Federation, the True Way has no political power.
Did the USSR and USA probably renew treaties and such? Yes. But the more important thing is that the United States, after the fall of the Soviet Union looked at the new Russian Federation and said, 'we consider you to be the main successor state of the Soviet Union'.
Y'see, part of being a nation in our modern world, and having other countries actually do stuff with you, like trading, or making treaties, is that they CHOOSE to ACKNOWLEDGE your sovereignty. I'm not saying that you cannot make it work, but you have to have the resources and such to go beyond that. Good example of this being communist China, and how even to some countries they will still not recognize the legality of their government, even with the superpower that China has become.
Same thing really applies for the Federation. They choose to say 'we recognize the RSE as an entity, but also the RR as well'. So, that also could include that they might consider the RR a successor state (however young) to the RSE in some form or fashion. Whether or not any treaties would include the banning of cloaks on Fed ships (as no direct mention is said of this at all in the game) can obviously be debated, but even so, the Federation recognizes the RR as a political power. Same thing goes for the Klingon Empire willingly choosing to do the same thing and also make treaties.
It's an MMO. Time slows to a standstill in these types of games. On top of that, your character is always 'the special'*, the one that saves the day, keeps the universe from ending, etc.
*Kragle not included.
No they are both excatly the same. While at the inital conference Sela was there reprsenting the Empire she had since gone MIA. and I didn't see a Star Empire rep in that last mission. i have come to a fairly logical conclusion here. AND THERE IS NOTHING TO DISPROVE AS OF YET.
- Superman has a red cape.
- The Incredible Hulk is green.
- The US flag is consisted of red & white horizontal stripes and white stars on blue background.
- Batman wears black.
- Tigers have stripes.
- The sky is blue.
- The Federation in Star Trek doesn't cloak.
But whatever I say is useless, right? You'll just keep banging your head against the wall until it breaks. Your head, that is.
- Superman has a red cape.
- The Incredible Hulk is green.
- The US flag is consisted of red & white horizontal stripes and white stars on blue background.
- Batman wears black.
- Tigers have stripes.
- The sky is blue.
- The Federation in Star Trek doesn't cloak.
But whatever I say is useless, right? You'll just keep banging your head against the wall until it breaks. Your head, that is.
Wrong the Federation HAS cloaked. Defiant, Alt E-D, E-D, Enterprise. They always have, only a treaty stop it. a Trewaty no in question for being still active.
Because the Romulans have no way of enforcing the treaty currently and in the future when many Fed ship will have a cloaking device, so the treaty is only exists as a a footnote in history.
Wrong the Federation HAS cloaked. Defiant, Alt E-D, E-D, Enterprise. They always have, only a treaty stop it. a Trewaty no in question for being still active.
Just like I assumed, still banging your head against the wall. Better call a medic.
Comments
Even if it is, the Federation could chose to uphold the treaty anyway. So again, you haven't actually really shown anything other than "I want cloaks because I think that the Federation would make them because of a future that never happened."
All those movies and shows show you that the Federation takes it's treaties seriously. And even if it was a figment he had to make it beleivable. Otherwise why wouldn't picard make a fuss about Riker's ED having a cloak. He wouldn't because the TREATY NO LONGER APPLIES. No gratned STo story has some major issues. but the basic premise is similaur to All Good Things. Heck the inital reason for the Fed KDF war is based off of DS9's story arc. And goiung by the movies Nemesis leaves us with many things. ONE most of the formal Romulan government is gone. Shinzon killed them. so no clear line of sucession so undoubably some choas of the time. Hence why the Titan is going. So all of the RSE is in flux right now. STo took it a bit further and with LOR brought in a new player. In truth there's no logical arguement against the Feds trying at this point in the game.
What AM saying is there there is potential. If the devs and CBS say the Republic signed a updated treaty of Algeron with the ban in then that's how it is. but going by the events of the LOR update we have a magor grey area which is even more by the facr is that prez still in office. they may have elected a new one since. THis is a VERY GREY AREA.
You can say it's a gray area, but you seem to be ignoring things that don't work your way in this, like the Federation wanting to uphold the treaty despite what has happened to the Romulans.
It's you whose reading comprehension is lacking. I mentioned the defiant's cloak several times; and also pointed out that the rom government required a rom to be on the ship to make certain it wasn't misused.
I also mentioned the phase cloak the pegasus was using. I'll also point out that in the 12 years the pegasus was lost starfleet didn't make another phase cloak. If they had the ship they would've sent to recover the pegasus' cloak would have had a cloak of its own. Starfleet didn't have a secret cloaked ship to go and get its own cloak back after 12 years. You think they couldn't figure out how to make a working phase cloak in 12 years when geordi and data figured it out in a couple of hours?
Starfleet is not about cloaked ships. It never has been. None of the canon supports that. It's just the pvpers in this game who want to whine about how the kdf and roms are better because they can cloak, so the feds must have it too. It's the same whine for 4 years now; and the feds still have the same number of cloaks: 2, galaxy x and defiant.
LOL
Let me try again very plainly:
The Federation should and will not have cloaking technology because the Federation is a faction in a franchise called Star Trek, a franchise built around the premise that the Federation does not use cloaking. This game is liscenced by IP holder of that franchise. How hard is it to understand?
Do you understand the words that are comming out of my mouth?
Can we think about that before saying the treaty is null and void.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Then again, if the Romulan republic wanted aid from the federation then perhaps usage of cloaking technology or even direct delivery of cloaking technology to the federation was used as payment for that aid.
If i recall correctly the Klingons got cloaking tech in exchange for D7 cruisers during a previous short lived alliance between Romulus and the Klingons.
As for me, i loath the artificial rule of no cloaking while under fire. Turn a regular cloak into what is currently known as battle cloak. While the federation will benefit, the KDF will be the one who benefits the most from this change.
As for the Oberth and Phase cloak, it's canon. Though the research was illegal this does not change that the Pegasus, an Oberth class, was equipped with a prototype Phase cloak.
As long as the console is either integrated into the Oberth (or a T4/5 version) or is only usable on the Oberth i would love to see the Oberth/Phase Cloak combination.
It's not as if even a T5 Oberth would be a game changer.
SILENCE! Nothing must get in the way of my dream of getting a T5 "Phased Secondary Shielding Cloaked Barrage Ablative Armor Generating Battle Cloaked" Miranda!
Too much cloak envy, when there are already 2 playable factions with an abundance of cloaks, and wishing for a faction that traditionally didn't use Cloaks for the ENTIRETY OF THE STAR TREK FRANCHISE.
Yep. Too much whining from the Fedbears.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I think we missed it in the midst of yelling at the OP for being an idiot. What was the question?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Uphold a treaty with a power that nolonger exists, yeah that makes sense. If it was a condition in the treaty recognizing the Republic I'll by it.
again why not? the ONLY that kept them from Cloaks was the treaty and note Defiant used it quite often to great effect. With my suggestion the fed and KDF will be roughly on par or KDF better since most of the BOP line has BC while I only suggest TWO ships to have it.
Yes it could I never said it couldn't. But until we see the full document of the New Romulus treaty ALgeron is null and void from LOR onward.
Ok, here's something else for you to ignore:
If a real life power of some kind breaks apart or is conquered, does the USA immediately stop following all treaties in regards to that country? Last I checked, no. At the very least the USA would say 'we don't recognize the nation in question has been conquered', like the government-in-exile of France during WW2.
Good example being the collapse of the USSR. Yeah, the USSR stopped existing as a political power, but as far as I can remember, Russia, the core country of the Soviet Union was still a very large, very powerful country. Those treaties didn't magically disappear out of convenience, especially the really big ones like in regards to nuclear weapons, and all that other fun Cold War stuff that our parents had to grow up in.
Same thing really applies here. Federation ain't gonna just out and out drop treaties because there is no lack of significant Romulan power. You bring up 'All good things' as a reasoning for Feds having cloak as in that timeline, the Klingons had completely conquered the Romulans (though we aren't given the full details of that particular situation though either).
So, in that timeline, the Federation used cloaks, or at LEAST Riker's refit of the Ent-D did. Thus that means at some point, the Federation acknowledged that the Romulan Star Empire had completely ceased to exist as a political entity, and there were no Romulan powerbases with which they would continue the Treaty of Algeron with.
That doesn't apply here. Is the Romulan Star Empire fractured and weakened? Yes. Is it completely destroyed as a political body? No. Is there still SOME form of political body for the Romulan people? Yes there is, in both the weakened RSE, and the still rather young Romulan Republic.
Perhaps the treaties with the USSR and the USA were renewed which is logical and we make new ones with them every now and then. However do you think the Federation should uphold treaties with the True Way? They and the RSE are exactly the same now. Have some planets and a military force but is the True Way Recognized as a power or just a renegage group. As for the Republic. Yes it is young and a completely new government on a new planet forged primarly by Romulans and Remans. It;s a completely new power thus no treaties apply to dealing with it. now could the part of banning fed cloaks be incorperated into the New Romulas treaty. yes. In which case i will back off. But it could not be in the treaty thus Algeron null and void and thus fed use of cloaks. And the Republic could have agreed for use of cloaks in return for aid.
Makes about as much sense as you using All Good Things are proof of what should happen.
Nations can uphold whatever treaties they want, even if both parties involved are not around. What is means is that if they decide that the treaty is no longer valid, which the Federation hasn't for the Treaty of Algeron in STO, then there's no one to complain to them.
So should we still uphold the agreements we had with TRIBBLE Germany, or the Austro Hungary empire? Again the RSE is now in the same boat as True Way. And All Good things is an excelent example considering how many things are similar between STO and All Good Things. are there differences YES but it's a good guideline.
And that choice can always change. Again that prez made that choice BEFORE the events of LOR. Two he made have made that choice but the Council could overide him and he may now be out of office by now depending on where in the term he was.
Either way, to be perfectly honest, I prefer the game where the Federation doesn't have extensive use to cloaking technology. Keeps more true to the series.
yet somehow in that year we go from academy to Vice Admiral and we see the collapse ofthe RSE, the formation of the Romulan Republic, return of the Iconians AND a non agression treaty with the KDF
You are trying to twist the True Way into being the same thing as some of the others. A better comparison would honestly be the True Way vs the rogue Tal Shiar.
The True Way isn't recognized as a political entity by the Federation because they CHOOSE not to do so. The Federation as it's own political, sovereign body considers the True Way to be entirely rogue elements within the Cardassian state. Now in the treaties between the Feds and Cardassians, sure the Federation will help out, but even so, to the Federation, the True Way has no political power.
Did the USSR and USA probably renew treaties and such? Yes. But the more important thing is that the United States, after the fall of the Soviet Union looked at the new Russian Federation and said, 'we consider you to be the main successor state of the Soviet Union'.
Y'see, part of being a nation in our modern world, and having other countries actually do stuff with you, like trading, or making treaties, is that they CHOOSE to ACKNOWLEDGE your sovereignty. I'm not saying that you cannot make it work, but you have to have the resources and such to go beyond that. Good example of this being communist China, and how even to some countries they will still not recognize the legality of their government, even with the superpower that China has become.
Same thing really applies for the Federation. They choose to say 'we recognize the RSE as an entity, but also the RR as well'. So, that also could include that they might consider the RR a successor state (however young) to the RSE in some form or fashion. Whether or not any treaties would include the banning of cloaks on Fed ships (as no direct mention is said of this at all in the game) can obviously be debated, but even so, the Federation recognizes the RR as a political power. Same thing goes for the Klingon Empire willingly choosing to do the same thing and also make treaties.
It's an MMO. Time slows to a standstill in these types of games. On top of that, your character is always 'the special'*, the one that saves the day, keeps the universe from ending, etc.
*Kragle not included.
It's still on the map, therefore it still exists, nothing in Legacy of Romulus even changed its status. The conference that led to the alliance of the Republic with both the Federation and the Klingon Empire was attended by Sela. All of the episodes of the Romulan faction arc take place before she disappears, and no mention is made of the Star Empire falling into chaos with her gone. At best, the fate of the Star Empire post-Cutting the Cord has yet to be determined. Rumors of its demise, as of now, are greatly exaggerated.
On that note, I'll actually go "on board" with this, however, I'll bring up an argument I haven't seen in all 12 pages so far...
If everyone gets full cloaking ability, then everyone needs to have full cloaking detection.
Ker'rat? Won't be "let's all hide and wait for the first bonehead", it'll be "first one willing to decloak wins"...
PvP? Same thing. First decloak wins... And suddenly slotting that torpedo becomes en vogue again, as a lot more torp hits will be impacting bare hull (remember, cloak means no shields unless you're a FAW-itar with that shielded cloak console...). Here's wondering how many of these players will feel when a torp crits on their hull for the infamous one-shot... And yes, there's enough torps with high enough damage numbers to suddenly return the glass to glass cannon escorts, and science ships will be at a severe disadvantage if they aren't paying attention...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
No they are both excatly the same. While at the inital conference Sela was there reprsenting the Empire she had since gone MIA. and I didn't see a Star Empire rep in that last mission. i have come to a fairly logical conclusion here. AND THERE IS NOTHING TO DISPROVE AS OF YET.
Dude c'mon, it's really easy at it's root:
- Superman has a red cape.
- The Incredible Hulk is green.
- The US flag is consisted of red & white horizontal stripes and white stars on blue background.
- Batman wears black.
- Tigers have stripes.
- The sky is blue.
- The Federation in Star Trek doesn't cloak.
But whatever I say is useless, right? You'll just keep banging your head against the wall until it breaks. Your head, that is.
Wrong the Federation HAS cloaked. Defiant, Alt E-D, E-D, Enterprise. They always have, only a treaty stop it. a Trewaty no in question for being still active.
Just like I assumed, still banging your head against the wall. Better call a medic.
nah the medic's for you. You obviously missed your medication.