Point 1: you can't make up TRIBBLE just because you can't dispute the facts. There's no fed cloaks before the treaty even though they had a copy for decades. There's only 1 phase cloak since the treaty, and it was discontinued once the roms learned about it. The only other instance of a fed cloak is from an alternate future that no longer exists: the enterprise D was destroyed so there's no way riker could make it has admiral's ship.
Point 2: you're the one who was talking about the problems with kerrat and cloaks, so clearly you do pvp there. So your agenda is to deal with pvp issues.
You can keep your stance all you want, but so can cryptic.
And none of that changes the fact that if every ship in kerrat is cloaked it will be boring.
again WE DON'T KNOW why Starfleet didn't gene never said anything on it. Only the treaty of Algeron forbad cloaks. nothing else. Phase Cloak was a violatiion of treaty and since at that point the RSE was still strong and viable Picard made the right move but that cloak still exists and could be used in the future. and even though the E-D was destroyed you notice how much STO is similar to that timeline? Feds and KDF at odds, RSE gone, and we have Galaxy X's. As for Kerrat me and a fleetmate went in there for a laugh. we mainly PVE. However that doesn't negate the fact that it's stupid to have the cloak as a console. the VERY minium. Defiant class have standard cloak, Sau Paulo and Gal X BC.
"Fed ships need cloaks!"
"Fed ships need battlecloaks!"
"Fed ships need Phased Cloaks!"
"Fed ships need to be able to fire while under cloak!"
"Fed ships need shields up while under cloak!"
LOL, you guys are simply one big, piece of work. I raise my glass and toast you for such "amazing" group think :eek::D
"Fed ships need cloaks!"
"Fed ships need battlecloaks!"
"Fed ships need Phased Cloaks!"
"Fed ships need to be able to fire while under cloak!"
"Fed ships need shields up while under cloak!"
LOL, you guys are simply one big, piece of work. I raise my glass and toast you for such "amazing" group think :eek::D
note I propose standard cloak for most fed ships, which will put on equal terms with KDF forthe most part. BC for only TWo ships in fed fleet and the pahse cloak a specail console on the Oberth and ONLY useable in other science vessels. No fire while claok only two ships in lroe can do that. Kang's BOP and the Scimitar. and no sheidls while cloaked.
"Fed ships need cloaks!"
"Fed ships need battlecloaks!"
"Fed ships need Phased Cloaks!"
"Fed ships need to be able to fire while under cloak!"
"Fed ships need shields up while under cloak!"
LOL, you guys are simply one big, piece of work. I raise my glass and toast you for such "amazing" group think :eek::D
Don't blame all fed players just because one or two nut jobs want cloaks. The majority of us play every single day without ever wanting a fed fleet full of cloaked ships. Save your profiling for somewhere else.
What was the justification for the Fed cloak again?
Ah yes "we are at war with the Klingunz!"
So with the current season that should actually mean that all cloaks are removed from the Fed side.
What was the justification for the Fed cloak again?
Ah yes "we are at war with the Klingunz!"
So with the current season that should actually mean that all cloaks are removed from the Fed side.
Justification. Treaty of Alegron null and void so they should start having them.
Justification. Treaty of Alegron null and void so they should start having them.
The Federation does not consider the treaty null and void just because the other party has essentially ceased to exist as a sovereign state.
It is your argument that is null and void.
Out-of-universe, you know the tactics that battle-cloakers use? Hit-and-run? I've got a buddy who can do the exact same thing in a Mobius on an engineer captain, and believe me, it's just as annoying as the guy who flies a Dhelan.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Justification. Treaty of Alegron null and void so they should start having them.
How many times do we have to say the Treaty is still in place. Blame your feddie prez for it. You have a battlecruiser and a fake raptor that can cloak plus the galaxy x. What more do you want? A BoP? Orions? The Klingon Honor Guard BA cape? Pointy ears and green blood? Maybe more black in the uniform?
Starfleet need to really fix that "Crazy Vice Admiral" sickness. I think most of the fed players got it.
Starfleet need to really fix that "Crazy Vice Admiral" sickness. I think most of the fed players got it.
*clears throat* 'Scuse me. I have an Avenger but I don't bother with a cloak. Ship doesn't need it.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'm sorry. Who's getting wiped out of existence? Are you playing the same game I am? The feds are winning on all fronts. I haven't failed a single mission. I've wiped out borg by the thousands and undine and tholians by the hundreds. The federation's doing fine. They don't need cloaks; especially when their only purpose is to give pvpers hard ons.
You need to practice your reading comprehension. I never said they were being wiped out. I said they are seeking to wipe out the Federation. There is a significant distinction there.
There were no previous agreements. The treaty was the first one put in place, 160 years after the war. And if scotty can make it work in 45 minutes I'm sure starfleet could have easily duplicated it in 43 years. You're just making TRIBBLE up again because you want it.
No, he is not making stuff up. They're completely verifiable facts.
Just face it, you're a pvper who wants a cloak for no other reason then you want it. You're like everyone else in this game: willing to throw canon out the window to fill your own needs. It's people like you that have got this game's canon all frelled up.
That's opinion, not fact. It's also a very poor argument that shows you lack anything substantive and resort to ad hominem attacks.
Of course you're too shortsighted to understand that if every race in kerrat has a cloak then no one's going to be shooting at anyone. No one's going to want to uncloak and take the alpha from everyone else just to get everyone else uncloaked. It's going to be 30 people all flying around invisible hoping someone sneezes and accidentally uncloaks. BORING!
Opinion, presumption, and false generalization. If everyone has a cloak, then players will put more effort into stealth detection. Romulans will be the hardest to detect, but that's fine since they have been using cloaking technology for longer than any other race.
Point 1: you can't make up TRIBBLE just because you can't dispute the facts. There's no fed cloaks before the treaty even though they had a copy for decades. There's only 1 phase cloak since the treaty, and it was discontinued once the roms learned about it. The only other instance of a fed cloak is from an alternate future that no longer exists: the enterprise D was destroyed so there's no way riker could make it has admiral's ship.
Point 2: you're the one who was talking about the problems with kerrat and cloaks, so clearly you do pvp there. So your agenda is to deal with pvp issues.
You can keep your stance all you want, but so can cryptic.
And none of that changes the fact that if every ship in kerrat is cloaked it will be boring.
1. Pointing out facts is not "making up TRIBBLE". Everything he said is either fact or conclusions based those facts. The Pegasus project was done in secret so as not to alert the Romulans until they had a cloaking system superior to Romulan technology, but they failed. Picard exposed the existence of the cloak to protect the tenuous peace between the two factions, not because "Feds don't cloak". There was also the Defiant, which had a cloak on loan from the Romulans, but you conveniently omitted that fact.
2. Ker'rat is not a mandatory PvP zone; it's competitive PvE. Many players go there to farm the Borg. Cloaked ships are a menace to Federation ships because the KDF players tend to grief the players that are there for farming so they can get easy kills instead of engaging Fed players who are prepared for PvP.
Go here and show your support for a better Foundry!
No offense (okay some) but if you're going into Kar'ret and not expecting there to be PvP and cloaked ships ready to kill you and plan accordingly, the problem isn't cloaking.
How many times do we have to say the Treaty is still in place. Blame your feddie prez for it. You have a battlecruiser and a fake raptor that can cloak plus the galaxy x. What more do you want? A BoP? Orions? The Klingon Honor Guard BA cape? Pointy ears and green blood? Maybe more black in the uniform?
Starfleet need to really fix that "Crazy Vice Admiral" sickness. I think most of the fed players got it.
Simple. when the fed prez did that the Repbulic didn't exist and Sela was still around. However SINCE the formation of the Romulan Republic the RSE all but cease to exist. Say we had a treaty with Yugoslavia. Should we still honor that treaty since Yugosoliva doesn't exist anymore? Remember this is now 2410 and much has changedd. and who's to say the council didn't veto the prez later. The Romulan Republic is a new power that NEVER signed the treaty of Algeron and until CBS and the devs say that the treaty was renewed in the documents that formalozed the Rebulic in the galatic eyes then the treaty is null and void.
Simple. when the fed prez did that the Repbulic didn't exist and Sela was still around. However SINCE the formation of the Romulan Republic the RSE all but cease to exist. Say we had a treaty with Yugoslavia. Should we still honor that treaty since Yugosoliva doesn't exist anymore? Remember this is now 2410 and much has changedd. and who's to say the council didn't veto the prez later. The Romulan Republic is a new power that NEVER signed the treaty of Algeron and until CBS and the devs say that the treaty was renewed in the documents that formalozed the Rebulic in the galatic eyes then the treaty is null and void.
No offense (okay some) but if you're going into Kar'ret and not expecting there to be PvP and cloaked ships ready to kill you and plan accordingly, the problem isn't cloaking.
yes we did, and we did forthe fun of it. but it does suck when they can cloak away and choose their time to strike and we can't do anything about it.
Things hacve changed since he said it and a President is not the be all and end all of the Federation. their's still the Council and they could have overruled him.
Simple. when the fed prez did that the Repbulic didn't exist and Sela was still around. However SINCE the formation of the Romulan Republic the RSE all but cease to exist. Say we had a treaty with Yugoslavia. Should we still honor that treaty since Yugosoliva doesn't exist anymore? Remember this is now 2410 and much has changedd. and who's to say the council didn't veto the prez later. The Romulan Republic is a new power that NEVER signed the treaty of Algeron and until CBS and the devs say that the treaty was renewed in the documents that formalozed the Rebulic in the galatic eyes then the treaty is null and void.
Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore and yet the successor countries pay the econobic debts towards other countries proportionaly, as per the accords Yugoslavia had. They also recieve proportional economical payments from countries that owed Yugoslavia, like for ex. Russia even though the agreement was between 2 now dead countries - Yugoslavia and the USSR. Try again.
But this really is a stupid discussion and it's actually kinda' sad that you people that want cloaking Feds just don't seem to get it. The IP does not support your claims here. Star Trek is an IP where the Federation doesn't cloak. End of story.
What you're doing is the same as whining that Batman should have super-powers like Superman instead of his gadgets because he's a Super-Hero as well, completely ignoring the fact that being human and using gadgets is everything that makes Batman....well Batman. See how silly that is?
Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore and yet the successor countries pay the econobic debts towards other countries proportionaly, as per the accords Yugoslavia had. They also recieve proportional economical payments from countries that owed Yugoslavia, like for ex. Russia even though the agreement was between 2 now dead countries - Yugoslavia and the USSR. Try again.
But this really is a stupid discussion and it's actually kinda' sad that you people that want cloaking Feds just don't seem to get it. The IP does not support your claims here. Star Trek is an IP where the Federation doesn't cloak. End of story.
What you're doing is the same as whining that Batman should have super-powers like Superman instead of his gadgets because he's a Super-Hero as well, completely ignoring the fact that being human and using gadgets is everything that makes Batman....well Batman. See how silly that is?
IP does support it. Feds didn't have cloak ONLY do to treaty. And maybe the successor states renewed those economic deals. Now could have the Rebulic signed arenewed Alegron, yes. but we have no info on that. thus a grey area.
Things hacve changed since he said it and a President is not the be all and end all of the Federation. their's still the Council and they could have overruled him.
Just because things have changed doesn't mean that it's changed what he said. And I'm sure they could, and they could have before as well.
All you've said is that things have changed. None of what you said shows that the Fed President's statement is invalid even with those changes since the state of the Romulan Empire doesn't actually matter to the statement he said. As has been pointed out repeatedly.
IP does support it. Feds didn't have cloak ONLY do to treaty. And maybe the successor states renewed those economic deals. Now could have the Rebulic signed arenewed Alegron, yes. but we have no info on that. thus a grey area.
No they didn't, they inherited many agreements from the no longer existing "father countries".
And give it a rest, the IP does not support it no matter how badly you want it to.
In the entire franchise, Starfleet never used cloaking ships aside from 1 U.S.S. Defiant that had a cloak installed by the Romulans cause Starfleed couldn't make cloaks, and even that was restricted to the Gamma Quadrant for Dominion reconnaisance and the cloak caused issues with the Defiant's energy signature.
People have already pointed out that they didn't use the cloaks in Kirk's time even though there was no accord then and your response was "Well maybe they had another older treaty then". :rolleyes: If that are your arguments, you really need to let it go.
What you're promoting here goes completely against the established franchise this game has a liscence from.
Just because things have changed doesn't mean that it's changed what he said. And I'm sure they could, and they could have before as well.
All you've said is that things have changed. None of what you said shows that the Fed President's statement is invalid even with those changes since the state of the Romulan Empire doesn't actually matter to the statement he said. As has been pointed out repeatedly.
Yes I do because the treaty the ONLY thing keeping the feds from having cloaks could be null and void. The Republic has taken the RSE's place since he has said that and a new accord made on that premise. the Repbulic is not the RSE so unless put in any agreement between Fed and RSE does not apply to the Republic.
No they didn't, they inherited many agreements from the no longer existing "father countries".
And give it a rest, the IP does not support it no matter how badly you want it to.
In the entire franchise, Starfleet never used cloaking ships aside from 1 U.S.S. Defiant that had a cloak installed by the Romulans cause Starfleed couldn't make cloaks, and even that was restricted to the Gamma Quadrant for Dominion reconnaisance and the cloak caused issues with the Defiant's energy signature.
People have already pointed out that they didn't use the cloaks in Kirk's time even though there was no accord then and your response was "Well maybe they had another older treaty then". :rolleyes: If that are your arguments, you really need to let it go.
What you're promoting here goes completely against the established franchise this game has a liscence from.
You forget all good things. which may have been alternate but if you notice, there are ALOT of similarities between STO and that timeline. THe Alt ED had cloak because the RSE didn't exist anymore. Thus only the treaty keeps the feds from having it. And there is a strong case for it here. the RSE all but doesn't exist now. THey weren't at the meeting at the Jenolan Dyson Sphere. They are like the True way now.
As for the Kirk era issue. the basic truth is WE DON'T KNOW. gene Roddenberry never said anythiing on it. Some books say they tried and failed and nearly cost them a ship. and the fact that there was a Rom Ambassador during ST6 says there is some agreement between them before the Treaty of Algeron. We don't even know that the Tomed incident is all about. just the results of it.
You forget all good things. which may have been alternate but if you notice, there are ALOT of similarities between STO and that timeline. THe Alt ED had cloak because the RSE didn't exist anymore. Thus only the treaty keeps the feds from having it. And there is a strong case for it here. the RSE all but doesn't exist now. THey weren't at the meeting at the Jenolan Dyson Sphere. They are like the True way now.
As for the Kirk era issue. the basic truth is WE DON'T KNOW. gene Roddenberry never said anythiing on it. Some books say they tried and failed and nearly cost them a ship. and the fact that there was a Rom Ambassador during ST6 says there is some agreement between them before the Treaty of Algeron. We don't even know that the Tomed incident is all about. just the results of it.
'All good things' is a figment of Q's imagination. And the books are not canon.
The point is that the franchise this game is based upon never had Federation starships using cloak. Let's try and keep this game at least somewhat resembling the IP which name it carries.
'All good things' is a figment of Q's imagination. And the books are not canon.
The point is that the franchise this game is based upon never had Federation starships using cloak. Let's try and keep this game at least somewhat resembling the IP which name it carries.
But Klingons and Romulans haz cloakz! Tha means Federation needs it also! FOR ALL SHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'All good things' is a figment of Q's imagination. And the books are not canon.
The point is that the franchise this game is based upon never had Federation starships using cloak. Let's try and keep this game at least somewhat resembling the IP which name it carries.
Who says it was just a figment. it easily could have been. Take everything from the time frame of All good things for the ED. baring Generations the ship could have lasted awhile we know that Deana and Worf had a thing for eachother. The only things that make it wrong are the movies that are after it. And again Note how the STo line line is. they were in a pretty simular situation. So was it a figment. or a potential future? i say potential future which means the feds could use cloaks under the right condidtions.
Who says it was just a figment. it easily could have been. Take everything from the time frame of All good things for the ED. baring Generations the ship could have lasted awhile we know that Deana and Worf had a thing for eachother. The only things that make it wrong are the movies that are after it. And again Note how the STo line line is. they were in a pretty simular situation. So was it a figment. or a potential future? i say potential future which means the feds could use cloaks under the right condidtions.
STO is not a potential future of anything. STO is a hot mess with storylines all over the place. STO is a theme park for anyone that wants to get his/hers favourite ST ride and that's about it.
If the Federation really was at war with everyone like it is in STO, there would be no Federation by 2409. Or a Klingon Empire for that matter.
Using a figment of Q's imagination as an argument for the Federation getting cloaks, in spite of everything seen in 5 ST TV shows and 10 movies is a very very weak argument and you know it.
Comments
again WE DON'T KNOW why Starfleet didn't gene never said anything on it. Only the treaty of Algeron forbad cloaks. nothing else. Phase Cloak was a violatiion of treaty and since at that point the RSE was still strong and viable Picard made the right move but that cloak still exists and could be used in the future. and even though the E-D was destroyed you notice how much STO is similar to that timeline? Feds and KDF at odds, RSE gone, and we have Galaxy X's. As for Kerrat me and a fleetmate went in there for a laugh. we mainly PVE. However that doesn't negate the fact that it's stupid to have the cloak as a console. the VERY minium. Defiant class have standard cloak, Sau Paulo and Gal X BC.
"Fed ships need cloaks!"
"Fed ships need battlecloaks!"
"Fed ships need Phased Cloaks!"
"Fed ships need to be able to fire while under cloak!"
"Fed ships need shields up while under cloak!"
LOL, you guys are simply one big, piece of work. I raise my glass and toast you for such "amazing" group think :eek::D
note I propose standard cloak for most fed ships, which will put on equal terms with KDF forthe most part. BC for only TWo ships in fed fleet and the pahse cloak a specail console on the Oberth and ONLY useable in other science vessels. No fire while claok only two ships in lroe can do that. Kang's BOP and the Scimitar. and no sheidls while cloaked.
Otherwise, cloak doesn't add anything meaningful to my average game play. Especially in PvE. PvP, that's more of a learn to counter thing IMO.
other than what we have, NO MOAR
Support the Typhoon and Jupiter class starships!
Ah yes "we are at war with the Klingunz!"
So with the current season that should actually mean that all cloaks are removed from the Fed side.
Justification. Treaty of Alegron null and void so they should start having them.
The Federation does not consider the treaty null and void just because the other party has essentially ceased to exist as a sovereign state.
It is your argument that is null and void.
Out-of-universe, you know the tactics that battle-cloakers use? Hit-and-run? I've got a buddy who can do the exact same thing in a Mobius on an engineer captain, and believe me, it's just as annoying as the guy who flies a Dhelan.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Prove it.
/10char
How many times do we have to say the Treaty is still in place. Blame your feddie prez for it. You have a battlecruiser and a fake raptor that can cloak plus the galaxy x. What more do you want? A BoP? Orions? The Klingon Honor Guard BA cape? Pointy ears and green blood? Maybe more black in the uniform?
Starfleet need to really fix that "Crazy Vice Admiral" sickness. I think most of the fed players got it.
*clears throat* 'Scuse me. I have an Avenger but I don't bother with a cloak. Ship doesn't need it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
You need to practice your reading comprehension. I never said they were being wiped out. I said they are seeking to wipe out the Federation. There is a significant distinction there.
No, he is not making stuff up. They're completely verifiable facts.
That's opinion, not fact. It's also a very poor argument that shows you lack anything substantive and resort to ad hominem attacks.
Opinion, presumption, and false generalization. If everyone has a cloak, then players will put more effort into stealth detection. Romulans will be the hardest to detect, but that's fine since they have been using cloaking technology for longer than any other race.
1. Pointing out facts is not "making up TRIBBLE". Everything he said is either fact or conclusions based those facts. The Pegasus project was done in secret so as not to alert the Romulans until they had a cloaking system superior to Romulan technology, but they failed. Picard exposed the existence of the cloak to protect the tenuous peace between the two factions, not because "Feds don't cloak". There was also the Defiant, which had a cloak on loan from the Romulans, but you conveniently omitted that fact.
2. Ker'rat is not a mandatory PvP zone; it's competitive PvE. Many players go there to farm the Borg. Cloaked ships are a menace to Federation ships because the KDF players tend to grief the players that are there for farming so they can get easy kills instead of engaging Fed players who are prepared for PvP.
Simple. when the fed prez did that the Repbulic didn't exist and Sela was still around. However SINCE the formation of the Romulan Republic the RSE all but cease to exist. Say we had a treaty with Yugoslavia. Should we still honor that treaty since Yugosoliva doesn't exist anymore? Remember this is now 2410 and much has changedd. and who's to say the council didn't veto the prez later. The Romulan Republic is a new power that NEVER signed the treaty of Algeron and until CBS and the devs say that the treaty was renewed in the documents that formalozed the Rebulic in the galatic eyes then the treaty is null and void.
yes we did, and we did forthe fun of it. but it does suck when they can cloak away and choose their time to strike and we can't do anything about it.
Things hacve changed since he said it and a President is not the be all and end all of the Federation. their's still the Council and they could have overruled him.
Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore and yet the successor countries pay the econobic debts towards other countries proportionaly, as per the accords Yugoslavia had. They also recieve proportional economical payments from countries that owed Yugoslavia, like for ex. Russia even though the agreement was between 2 now dead countries - Yugoslavia and the USSR. Try again.
But this really is a stupid discussion and it's actually kinda' sad that you people that want cloaking Feds just don't seem to get it. The IP does not support your claims here. Star Trek is an IP where the Federation doesn't cloak. End of story.
What you're doing is the same as whining that Batman should have super-powers like Superman instead of his gadgets because he's a Super-Hero as well, completely ignoring the fact that being human and using gadgets is everything that makes Batman....well Batman. See how silly that is?
All you've said is that things have changed. None of what you said shows that the Fed President's statement is invalid even with those changes since the state of the Romulan Empire doesn't actually matter to the statement he said. As has been pointed out repeatedly.
No they didn't, they inherited many agreements from the no longer existing "father countries".
And give it a rest, the IP does not support it no matter how badly you want it to.
In the entire franchise, Starfleet never used cloaking ships aside from 1 U.S.S. Defiant that had a cloak installed by the Romulans cause Starfleed couldn't make cloaks, and even that was restricted to the Gamma Quadrant for Dominion reconnaisance and the cloak caused issues with the Defiant's energy signature.
People have already pointed out that they didn't use the cloaks in Kirk's time even though there was no accord then and your response was "Well maybe they had another older treaty then". :rolleyes: If that are your arguments, you really need to let it go.
What you're promoting here goes completely against the established franchise this game has a liscence from.
Yes I do because the treaty the ONLY thing keeping the feds from having cloaks could be null and void. The Republic has taken the RSE's place since he has said that and a new accord made on that premise. the Repbulic is not the RSE so unless put in any agreement between Fed and RSE does not apply to the Republic.
You forget all good things. which may have been alternate but if you notice, there are ALOT of similarities between STO and that timeline. THe Alt ED had cloak because the RSE didn't exist anymore. Thus only the treaty keeps the feds from having it. And there is a strong case for it here. the RSE all but doesn't exist now. THey weren't at the meeting at the Jenolan Dyson Sphere. They are like the True way now.
As for the Kirk era issue. the basic truth is WE DON'T KNOW. gene Roddenberry never said anythiing on it. Some books say they tried and failed and nearly cost them a ship. and the fact that there was a Rom Ambassador during ST6 says there is some agreement between them before the Treaty of Algeron. We don't even know that the Tomed incident is all about. just the results of it.
'All good things' is a figment of Q's imagination. And the books are not canon.
The point is that the franchise this game is based upon never had Federation starships using cloak. Let's try and keep this game at least somewhat resembling the IP which name it carries.
But Klingons and Romulans haz cloakz! Tha means Federation needs it also! FOR ALL SHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who says it was just a figment. it easily could have been. Take everything from the time frame of All good things for the ED. baring Generations the ship could have lasted awhile we know that Deana and Worf had a thing for eachother. The only things that make it wrong are the movies that are after it. And again Note how the STo line line is. they were in a pretty simular situation. So was it a figment. or a potential future? i say potential future which means the feds could use cloaks under the right condidtions.
STO is not a potential future of anything. STO is a hot mess with storylines all over the place. STO is a theme park for anyone that wants to get his/hers favourite ST ride and that's about it.
If the Federation really was at war with everyone like it is in STO, there would be no Federation by 2409. Or a Klingon Empire for that matter.
Using a figment of Q's imagination as an argument for the Federation getting cloaks, in spite of everything seen in 5 ST TV shows and 10 movies is a very very weak argument and you know it.
Too much blood wine boy