On holodeck you can see the outline of the females ribcage, but on tribble you can actually distinguish individual "ribs".
The muscle tone is also not as good, and a lot less athletic than whats on holodeck.
On holodeck you can see the outline of the females ribcage, but on tribble you can actually distinguish individual "ribs".
The muscle tone is also not as good, and a lot less athletic than whats on holodeck.
Your right, the holodeck ones could use a little tweaking for higher quality.
But the tribble ones are simply just going the wrong direction, look wise.
But to be fair, it looks a lot different out in the open under directional light sources, versus the tailor.
We are strong combat fit warriors, not skinny and weak runway models.
I was curious myself about the differences, if any, between Holodeck and Tribble, so I did a character copy of my Asian (Chinese) character and took screenshots without changing any settings.
The major difference I see between Holodeck and Tribble (other than the intensity of the lighting) is that there seems to be a difference in the forehead. I haven't examined it closely, but it seems that the Tribble forehead is pushed out more, resulting in some of the strands of hair to be gobbled up by the forehead.
I can't see any other obvious differences between the two. The chin and cheeks might be a bit smoother, but that's a good thing, in my opinion.
The Type 5 face and complexion does look good, but she's going to need some tweaking to make her look just right. (I might even take this opportunity to make her look more like Liu Yifei (Golden Sparrow/Chinatown Girl in The Forbidden Kingdom).)
Edit: senatorvreenak, the forehead is the only major difference I can see in your Orion character, too. On Tribble, the hairline on her forehead and temple is higher (which may be for a similar reason as my character's hair is slightly different), but speaking as an artist with a good eye for spotting differences, I just don't see how she has been ruined.
On holodeck you can see the outline of the females ribcage, but on tribble you can actually distinguish individual "ribs".
The muscle tone is also not as good, and a lot less athletic than whats on holodeck.
I took the Holodeck and Tribble images, blew them up 300% (which is usually a no-no with raster (pixelized) images), made the Tribble image 50% transparent, overlaid the Tribble image on top of the Holodeck image, lining up the pupils exactly, then changed the transparency mix mode to highlight the differences between the two.
The differences (the light areas) between the two images -- other than the hair on the forehead -- can be explained by not having the exact same rotation of the character in the tailor between Holodeck and Tribble. Other than that, I see no differences between them, so I don't know what's "very different" about them. The eyes are the same, the nose is the same, the mouth is the same (I even explicitly doublechecked the mouth to make sure it was the same), cheeks, chin, everything looks the same between the two images.
Here's the original image so you don't have to go back to find my previous post. Please point out the differences between the two, because I really don't see them. Please be very specific. "Every single aspect" doesn't explain the differences.
I am very detail-oriented, visually oriented, and artistically oriented, and I excel at those "Spot the Difference" games, yet I honestly cannot see any differences between the Holodeck version and the Tribble version. I'm thinking that the lighting differences between Holodeck and Tribble (and the way that meshes and textures are smoothed out given a particular lighting level) may explain any perceived differences in geometry.
I took the Holodeck and Tribble images, blew them up 300% (which is usually a no-no with raster (pixelized) images), made the Tribble image 50% transparent, overlaid the Tribble image on top of the Holodeck image, lining up the pupils exactly, then changed the transparency mix mode to highlight the differences between the two.
The differences (the light areas) between the two images -- other than the hair on the forehead -- can be explained by not having the exact same rotation of the character in the tailor between Holodeck and Tribble. Other than that, I see no differences between them, so I don't know what's "very different" about them. The eyes are the same, the nose is the same, the mouth is the same (I even explicitly doublechecked the mouth to make sure it was the same), cheeks, chin, everything looks the same between the two images.
Here's the original image so you don't have to go back to find my previous post. Please point out the differences between the two, because I really don't see them. Please be very specific. "Every single aspect" doesn't explain the differences.
I am very detail-oriented, visually oriented, and artistically oriented, and I excel at those "Spot the Difference" games, yet I honestly cannot see any differences between the Holodeck version and the Tribble version. I'm thinking that the lighting differences between Holodeck and Tribble (and the way that meshes and textures are smoothed out given a particular lighting level) may explain any perceived differences in geometry.
To be honest, I can't see much difference in your comparison either, but I think that's because your character uses the "Standard 02" complexion and has black hair. If you want to know what people are talking about, you can take a look at some of the changes that I've documented:
There are lighting differences between Holodeck and Tribble, but that's a separate issue. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten much response from the devs about it.
Is there any chance of getting these in the tailor at some point? hairand more hair.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
On holodeck you can see the outline of the females ribcage, but on tribble you can actually distinguish individual "ribs".
The muscle tone is also not as good, and a lot less athletic than whats on holodeck.
Note, the glossy skin is not the subject here, the normal map highlights are.
Is Cryptic advertising for anorexic models? Think we'll have to send a message to one of them "watchdog" organisations that a computer game is promoting anorexia!
But honestly, who in his or her right mind would sit down, look at it and consider that's a nice piece of work?
No dev comment about this? I really strongly advise against this change. It's like altering someone's artwork. How would the artist feel about that? I'm sure the developers would understand how unfair it is to see someone else alter their artwork? This is no different. Adding more options is great, adds a lot more variety but altering the current char model? Completely different story.
Is Cryptic advertising for anorexic models? Think we'll have to send a message to one of them "watchdog" organisations that a computer game is promoting anorexia!
But honestly, who in his or her right mind would sit down, look at it and consider that's a nice piece of work?
I wouldn't. That ribcage.... is gross. Like super gross. Makes them look too skinny, and I am notorious for my curvy characters.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Nicely done on the new heads and complexions. We talk about them in the latest episode of Podcast UGC, Episode 152. The short version of our feedback --
1. The complexion textures look a bit flat. One could argue that they look air brushed, but I think the complete lack of any hint of pores on many of the female characters left us with the impression that our graphics were on a lower setting or that a texture had failed to load. Largely we concluded that things looked a bit Gaussian blurred, instead of sharp and airbrushed.
2. As a player with a character who is a red head, I was depressed to find that I still didn't have a fittingly freckled complexion. Yes, there is a complexion that has 4 or 5 freckles, but I would like to think that people like this still exist in the future -- http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/7c/b7/70/7cb770a7f0ec9aaa84b93eb2b7e9547f.jpg
3. While the improvements are all around pretty good, I'd be curious to know about how possible it would be to allow people to mix and match some of the geometry. Sometimes, for instance, I'd see an eye shape I'd like to use, but the nose it comes attached which isn't ideal. If we could split things into "upper face, middle face, lower face" selection, our versatility would become staggering. However, this may be a pipe dream.
4. I noticed that on humans and other human like aliens, the sliders for the mouth leave you a LOT of room for manipulation, but the slides for things like eye size and nose height ... not so much. I wasn't really able to drop the nose below the bottom of the ears on any of the characters, nor could I make eyes appear larger. I know this all fits into the standard proportions of an average healthy looking face, but when you're attempting to create a very specific likeness, this can get in the way. It still remains the sole reason why many players chose an "alien" and then attempt to make them look human: It still just gives you more options to customize your look. I, for one, would like to see this practice become unnecessary.
5. This is a side issue that doesn't pertain to heads or complexions at all, but I've noticed STO seems to ignore that wavy hair is a thing. This may, of course, have to do with the limitations of currently implemented hair tech, but I for one would like to see more options (as well as seeing more options available to Rigelians -- inexplicably, their options for hair have always been extremely limited).
By and large, this sort of thing is far, far overdue for STO. Although I myself would have loved to see even MOAR drastic changes to the character creator, I must commend you for finally coming in and shaking up the blase attitude Cryptic has had on making ANY improvement to the character creator. Well done, good sir!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Ive seen this thread for a while and thought GOD NO....NOT MORE USELESS HEADS I HAVE TO LOOK AT IN THE TAILOR - really all I want is to turn off basic and all the presets I'll never use....
Anyway, I finally went to the tailor and was pleasantly surprised at the new options.....
Great!!!
My only criticism is there is still no NOSE option. This is where the options are lacking. Like I might like Option 2 with Option 4 but Im still stuck with the nose they assigned to that head.
Every time I visit tribble I get taken aback by just how awful my characters faces look.
I can't even begin to count the hours I spent perfecting them, sculpting them exactly as I want it.
and if this goes live, i'm back to square one. :mad:
Oh sure you might say you can go back and tweak things again.
But aside from the matter of having ones time wasted, the sad truth is that you can never truly re-create a work of art exactly the way it once was.
Every time I visit tribble I get taken aback by just how awful my characters faces look.
I can't even begin to count the hours I spent perfecting them, sculpting them exactly as I want it.
and if this goes live, i'm back to square one. :mad:
Oh sure you might say you can go back and tweak things again.
But aside from the matter of having ones time wasted, the sad truth is that you can never truly re-create a work of art exactly the way it once was.
You do like your characters don't you?
Anyway, still hope for a better body texture, faces we can work with, the anorexic body texture? Yeah kinda stuck there aren't we...
They added 3 new faces, wow. Yeah, that's monumental, it's gonna' change the way the game is played. Now they're looking for an "At-a-boy!" for something that should have been done 3 years ago.
Is English not your first language? I don't think you understood the thread title. The two exclamation marks are indicative of sarcasm. Joejing doesn't really believe this is "huge" - he know's it a nice to have that many of us have been asking for.
Comments
From the back, depending on the uniform. When they run, you can clearly see the ribs through their t-shirts. (It's most notable on the Miner uniform).
On holodeck you can see the outline of the females ribcage, but on tribble you can actually distinguish individual "ribs".
The muscle tone is also not as good, and a lot less athletic than whats on holodeck.
Just Look..
Note, the glossy skin is not the subject here, the normal map highlights are.
Honestly, I think Tribble looks better in those shots. Holodeck looks a bit fuzzy.
I, personally, would prefer a way to give my toon a different lower torso build. But that's apparently not in the cards this season, alas.
But the tribble ones are simply just going the wrong direction, look wise.
But to be fair, it looks a lot different out in the open under directional light sources, versus the tailor.
We are strong combat fit warriors, not skinny and weak runway models.
Holodeck vs Tribble Face Comparison
The major difference I see between Holodeck and Tribble (other than the intensity of the lighting) is that there seems to be a difference in the forehead. I haven't examined it closely, but it seems that the Tribble forehead is pushed out more, resulting in some of the strands of hair to be gobbled up by the forehead.
I can't see any other obvious differences between the two. The chin and cheeks might be a bit smoother, but that's a good thing, in my opinion.
The Type 5 face and complexion does look good, but she's going to need some tweaking to make her look just right. (I might even take this opportunity to make her look more like Liu Yifei (Golden Sparrow/Chinatown Girl in The Forbidden Kingdom).)
Edit: senatorvreenak, the forehead is the only major difference I can see in your Orion character, too. On Tribble, the hairline on her forehead and temple is higher (which may be for a similar reason as my character's hair is slightly different), but speaking as an artist with a good eye for spotting differences, I just don't see how she has been ruined.
As to me the two differ quite noticeably in every single aspect.
Even your comparison picture looks very different to me of holodeck vs tribble.
Changes to hairline of ponytail hairstyles
Oooooh. I see the ribs you're talking about. And wow ew ew ew ew. I do not want to see ribs when that hits holodeck.
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Well, then then even my artistic eye must be missing something here. Take a look...
Holodeck vs Tribble Overlaid
I took the Holodeck and Tribble images, blew them up 300% (which is usually a no-no with raster (pixelized) images), made the Tribble image 50% transparent, overlaid the Tribble image on top of the Holodeck image, lining up the pupils exactly, then changed the transparency mix mode to highlight the differences between the two.
The differences (the light areas) between the two images -- other than the hair on the forehead -- can be explained by not having the exact same rotation of the character in the tailor between Holodeck and Tribble. Other than that, I see no differences between them, so I don't know what's "very different" about them. The eyes are the same, the nose is the same, the mouth is the same (I even explicitly doublechecked the mouth to make sure it was the same), cheeks, chin, everything looks the same between the two images.
Here's the original image so you don't have to go back to find my previous post. Please point out the differences between the two, because I really don't see them. Please be very specific. "Every single aspect" doesn't explain the differences.
I am very detail-oriented, visually oriented, and artistically oriented, and I excel at those "Spot the Difference" games, yet I honestly cannot see any differences between the Holodeck version and the Tribble version. I'm thinking that the lighting differences between Holodeck and Tribble (and the way that meshes and textures are smoothed out given a particular lighting level) may explain any perceived differences in geometry.
To be honest, I can't see much difference in your comparison either, but I think that's because your character uses the "Standard 02" complexion and has black hair. If you want to know what people are talking about, you can take a look at some of the changes that I've documented:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16064421&postcount=72
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16229871&postcount=104
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1080261
There are lighting differences between Holodeck and Tribble, but that's a separate issue. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten much response from the devs about it.
hair and more hair.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Head Type - no ridges. And have hairstyles Close 01 through Close 04 available when the no ridge head type is selected.
The only way to make a ToS styled klingon is to make an alien and then it wouldn't be a *true* klingon.
It would be cool if this option was granted by buying the TOS bundle.
Is Cryptic advertising for anorexic models? Think we'll have to send a message to one of them "watchdog" organisations that a computer game is promoting anorexia!
But honestly, who in his or her right mind would sit down, look at it and consider that's a nice piece of work?
I wouldn't. That ribcage.... is gross. Like super gross. Makes them look too skinny, and I am notorious for my curvy characters.
>_>
<_<
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_%28El%C3%ADas_Garc%C3%ADa_Mart%C3%ADnez%29
Joined January 2009
Nicely done on the new heads and complexions. We talk about them in the latest episode of Podcast UGC, Episode 152. The short version of our feedback --
1. The complexion textures look a bit flat. One could argue that they look air brushed, but I think the complete lack of any hint of pores on many of the female characters left us with the impression that our graphics were on a lower setting or that a texture had failed to load. Largely we concluded that things looked a bit Gaussian blurred, instead of sharp and airbrushed.
2. As a player with a character who is a red head, I was depressed to find that I still didn't have a fittingly freckled complexion. Yes, there is a complexion that has 4 or 5 freckles, but I would like to think that people like this still exist in the future -- http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/7c/b7/70/7cb770a7f0ec9aaa84b93eb2b7e9547f.jpg
3. While the improvements are all around pretty good, I'd be curious to know about how possible it would be to allow people to mix and match some of the geometry. Sometimes, for instance, I'd see an eye shape I'd like to use, but the nose it comes attached which isn't ideal. If we could split things into "upper face, middle face, lower face" selection, our versatility would become staggering. However, this may be a pipe dream.
4. I noticed that on humans and other human like aliens, the sliders for the mouth leave you a LOT of room for manipulation, but the slides for things like eye size and nose height ... not so much. I wasn't really able to drop the nose below the bottom of the ears on any of the characters, nor could I make eyes appear larger. I know this all fits into the standard proportions of an average healthy looking face, but when you're attempting to create a very specific likeness, this can get in the way. It still remains the sole reason why many players chose an "alien" and then attempt to make them look human: It still just gives you more options to customize your look. I, for one, would like to see this practice become unnecessary.
5. This is a side issue that doesn't pertain to heads or complexions at all, but I've noticed STO seems to ignore that wavy hair is a thing. This may, of course, have to do with the limitations of currently implemented hair tech, but I for one would like to see more options (as well as seeing more options available to Rigelians -- inexplicably, their options for hair have always been extremely limited).
By and large, this sort of thing is far, far overdue for STO. Although I myself would have loved to see even MOAR drastic changes to the character creator, I must commend you for finally coming in and shaking up the blase attitude Cryptic has had on making ANY improvement to the character creator. Well done, good sir!
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
I'll be damned! She works for Cryptic now?! It does explain a lot!
Anyway, I finally went to the tailor and was pleasantly surprised at the new options.....
Great!!!
My only criticism is there is still no NOSE option. This is where the options are lacking. Like I might like Option 2 with Option 4 but Im still stuck with the nose they assigned to that head.
I can't even begin to count the hours I spent perfecting them, sculpting them exactly as I want it.
and if this goes live, i'm back to square one. :mad:
Oh sure you might say you can go back and tweak things again.
But aside from the matter of having ones time wasted, the sad truth is that you can never truly re-create a work of art exactly the way it once was.
R.I.P
You do like your characters don't you?
Anyway, still hope for a better body texture, faces we can work with, the anorexic body texture? Yeah kinda stuck there aren't we...
Unfortunately "nothing" can get rid that derpy mona lisa grin...
Is English not your first language? I don't think you understood the thread title. The two exclamation marks are indicative of sarcasm. Joejing doesn't really believe this is "huge" - he know's it a nice to have that many of us have been asking for.