This is the only change that I really dislike: Forced smiles on every toon. The rest is however in my opinion a definite improvement over what we currently have on holodeck.
Well.......there aren't any new faces or heads for klingons . And they don't have any smiles . So yeah.
Well.......there aren't any new faces or heads for klingons . And they don't have any smiles . So yeah.
True. If Cryptic would only spend a fraction of the time they use on changing textures to update Klingons. They need this more than any other species in the game.
My KDF Rom is now smiling though and I don't like it.
Yes. Also, as a German, I find it very strange when people constantly smile for no apparent reason.
True. If Cryptic would only spend a fraction of the time they use on changing textures to update Klingons. They need this more than any other species in the game.
My KDF Rom is now smiling though and I don't like it.
Well......maybe if the feedback on these new complexions and head types is very positive, they might do the same for klingons giving them faces that aren't scowling making them always look like they woke up on the wrong side of the bat'leth. Reman faces could use some work too and more options. My male reman has no head type or complexion options, but from what other players are saying, it seems to be a major bug with my character as others do have the options that my reman is missing for some reason.
So here's hoping. (*cough* klingons need more hairstyles too *cough)
I really do love the new complexions and head types. Not only does it give us a wider array of diversity among our characters and bridge officers, but most importantly it increases the amount of options we have. Currently we have like 3 complexions, 3 old complexions, and 2 head types for most species. So with season 9 that will be increased to 5 complexions, 3 old complexions, and 5 head types. Might be more, I'd have to double check.
Edit: Seriously though. My klingon has a look on his face like the air filtration system went down on the his small bridge, and he just realized that his species needs to bathe more often. That or someone on the bridge passed a silent-but-very-deadly and he is trying to figure out who to execute for stinking up the place. :P
And in an attempt to improve the feedback loop and efficiency so we can do a better job addressing your concerns, some feedback in return - and this goes for just about any feedback on the forums, not just character related:
1. Clarity and relevance. Please be clear about what your feedback refers to. This thread has gone from heads and complexions (as the subject line states) to body textures, hair, etc. Obviously, it becomes hard to follow.
Worse, are the comments like "Why'd you waste time making a new head, when the reputation system is broken!?" It's not helpful and completely irrelevant - as others are usually quick to point out (and many thanks for that!), character artists make character art.
2. Next, keep the feedback constructive. Keep in mind we're always working hard to improve the game and give you more and better options. That's quite the opposite of trying to TRIBBLE you over, so hostility isn't necessary.
3. Related, try to keep things in perspective and avoid hyperbole. It's hard to prioritize issues if every issue is claimed to be priority 1.
NONE of the facial proportions are at all the same anymore!!!! :mad:
Obviously, you are intimately familiar with your character that you've been playing with possibly for years, but the level of differences in the shots is minor and many people wouldn't be able to tell a difference without side-by-side comparison. "Completely ruined" implies the face is melted or something.
We've tried very hard to retain the existing heads while improving their lighting in more environments (not just Character Creation/Tailor) and implementing the new heads. We're hoping that it's an overall win for you and new players, but if you truly think your character is "completely ruined" then apologies for using this example.
But just to reiterate the point, try and keep things in perspective - do you want the game to stagnate, locked by old systems and set-ups or to grow? Often in order to expand, some of the old systems and assets need to be revisited to allow for compatibility and sometimes there's a bigger picture goal that might improve the game in many more ways (ways that you might actually appreciate even more).
If the goal is to allow whiter hair, then I think a better solution would be to add more colors to the color palette rather than change all existing hair colors.
Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.
...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.
Unfortunately adding "more colors to the color palette" as suggested isn't viable. There is already a white swatch and we can't make white more white :P
To elaborate, coloring hair is essentially a "multiply" color layer (for those familiar with photoshop). The previous (Holodeck) diffuse hair textures had a lot of brown and/or grey. So choosing the white color swatch didn't make the hair any more white - it remained tinged brown and/or grey.
So this is a case in order to improve in a broader sense, we had to modify the existing assets. Whether or not that's actually perceived as an improvement leads to the next item...
4. STO is a living, growing, and continuing game and your feedback counts regardless of when we get it, and it can, will, and does change the game:
It just truly irks me and I want this to be seen before the changes go in, not after.
Heh, what's funny is when we do it right, Tribble *is* usually how you guys should see changes "before they go in". We couldn't possibly screenshot or video every permutation of every change and addition and then hope to have enough eyes and feedback before truly going live.
So for example, *if* you guys think the lightened hair is horrible and don't care that Andorians (or any other species) can't have pure white hair, we will consider that feedback and work to find a solution, even if that means undo-ing the work that was done.
Again, being a game that has no intention of stopping, we have that capability. Sometimes there will be successes and much rejoicing and other times there will be setbacks and back-to-the-drawing-board days.
5. That's not to say every complaint will, or even could be addressed. Related to keeping things in perspective - just look at this thread. Some people love some aspects of what we've added/updated and others hate the very same aspects.
Understand we try to make things continually better and respect that there will be differing opinions and if we don't address your particular criticism one time, we very well might address your next one.
6. Just know we're on your side and we're trying to make the best Star Trek universe we can for you.
Yes. Also, as a German, I find it very strange when people constantly smile for no apparent reason.
True. If Cryptic would only spend a fraction of the time they use on changing textures to update Klingons. They need this more than any other species in the game.
My KDF Rom is now smiling though and I don't like it.
It's very important me, and I am sure many others, that you put yourself out and come into the 'bullpen', as it were. You don't see that often.
I realize no one is going to agree on everything, and the game has to progress. I thoroughly appreciate your work on the models. I've said it before, I LOVE options. I think my OCD takes over a little bit, though, when my character is altered without my own input.
In the interest of progress and more options, I'm very excited about the changes, albeit, obviously I have my reservations about parts of it affecting my current characters.
Regardless, I plan on elaborating on feedback when I have a few spare minutes.
And in an attempt to improve the feedback loop and efficiency so we can do a better job addressing your concerns, some feedback in return - and this goes for just about any feedback on the forums, not just character related:
1. Clarity and relevance. Please be clear about what your feedback refers to. This thread has gone from heads and complexions (as the subject line states) to body textures, hair, etc. Obviously, it becomes hard to follow.
Worse, are the comments like "Why'd you waste time making a new head, when the reputation system is broken!?" It's not helpful and completely irrelevant - as others are usually quick to point out (and many thanks for that!), character artists make character art.
2. Next, keep the feedback constructive. Keep in mind we're always working hard to improve the game and give you more and better options. That's quite the opposite of trying to TRIBBLE you over, so hostility isn't necessary.
3. Related, try to keep things in perspective and avoid hyperbole. It's hard to prioritize issues if every issue is claimed to be priority 1.
Obviously, you are intimately familiar with your character that you've been playing with possibly for years, but the level of differences in the shots is minor and many people wouldn't be able to tell a difference without side-by-side comparison. "Completely ruined" implies the face is melted or something.
We've tried very hard to retain the existing heads while improving their lighting in more environments (not just Character Creation/Tailor) and implementing the new heads. We're hoping that it's an overall win for you and new players, but if you truly think your character is "completely ruined" then apologies for using this example.
But just to reiterate the point, try and keep things in perspective - do you want the game to stagnate, locked by old systems and set-ups or to grow? Often in order to expand, some of the old systems and assets need to be revisited to allow for compatibility and sometimes there's a bigger picture goal that might improve the game in many more ways (ways that you might actually appreciate even more).
This is a good segue into:
Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.
...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.
Unfortunately adding "more colors to the color palette" as suggested isn't viable. There is already a white swatch and we can't make white more white :P
To elaborate, coloring hair is essentially a "multiply" color layer (for those familiar with photoshop). The previous (Holodeck) diffuse hair textures had a lot of brown and/or grey. So choosing the white color swatch didn't make the hair any more white - it remained tinged brown and/or grey.
So this is a case in order to improve in a broader sense, we had to modify the existing assets. Whether or not that's actually perceived as an improvement leads to the next item...
4. STO is a living, growing, and continuing game and your feedback counts regardless of when we get it, and it can, will, and does change the game:
Heh, what's funny is when we do it right, Tribble *is* usually how you guys should see changes "before they go in". We couldn't possibly screenshot or video every permutation of every change and addition and then hope to have enough eyes and feedback before truly going live.
So for example, *if* you guys think the lightened hair is horrible and don't care that Andorians (or any other species) can't have pure white hair, we will consider that feedback and work to find a solution, even if that means undo-ing the work that was done.
Again, being a game that has no intention of stopping, we have that capability. Sometimes there will be successes and much rejoicing and other times there will be setbacks and back-to-the-drawing-board days.
5. That's not to say every complaint will, or even could be addressed. Related to keeping things in perspective - just look at this thread. Some people love some aspects of what we've added/updated and others hate the very same aspects.
Understand we try to make things continually better and respect that there will be differing opinions and if we don't address your particular criticism one time, we very well might address your next one.
6. Just know we're on your side and we're trying to make the best Star Trek universe we can for you.
Please keep the pure white hair option. And if you haven't done so already, please make pure white a color option for all hairstyles. It never looked good to me because it was tinted.
And if you can find the time can you guys please fix the New Style Elegant hairstyle? It was released with the Legacy of Romulus launch but it looks awful. The hair on the sides of the face clip through the head unless the face is rather skinny. On the back of the head there is a spot that was never closed causing the skull to be seen through this spot. All this was reported about that hairstyle during closed beta testing for LoR and again after it went live that way and we've never had a response on it or any fixes.
NONE of the facial proportions are at all the same anymore!!!! :mad:
I honestly see no differences at all between the two. You've seen this character more then me, so if you say it is different I'll take your word for it.
Still waiting for an explanation as to why female characters are now skin and bones.
The old normal maps were fine, the new ones are quite frankly very bony and disgusting.
Obviously, you are intimately familiar with your character that you've been playing with possibly for years, but the level of differences in the shots is minor and many people wouldn't be able to tell a difference without side-by-side comparison. "Completely ruined" implies the face is melted or something.
We've tried very hard to retain the existing heads while improving their lighting in more environments (not just Character Creation/Tailor) and implementing the new heads. We're hoping that it's an overall win for you and new players, but if you truly think your character is "completely ruined" then apologies for using this example.
But just to reiterate the point, try and keep things in perspective - do you want the game to stagnate, locked by old systems and set-ups or to grow? Often in order to expand, some of the old systems and assets need to be revisited to allow for compatibility and sometimes there's a bigger picture goal that might improve the game in many more ways (ways that you might actually appreciate even more).
Unfortunately its not as minor as you think.
I find these changes instantly noticable on any character I have seen before, mine or others compared to holodeck and tribble.
And if these were actual people in real life, just looking at them would be to me two entirely different persons(holodeck vs tribble).
I applaud the wish to expand and improve things.
But quite frankly the improvements are not worth it if the cost is too high.
And having hours of careful work and sculpting demolished in an instant is a cost that is too high.
So yes, in this case I do much preferr the tailor to remain "stagnant" as far as physical parameters go.
At the very least existing heads should not be overwritten with a new format, but rather grandfathered into an "old" category, where the dimensions and proportions remain "exactly" as they are, and then people can have the choice to use the new and improved head types or not.
I honestly see no differences at all between the two. You've seen this character more then me, so if you say it is different I'll take your word for it.
Guess not everyone is good at recognizing faces.
To me it jumps right at me, and not just my own, but in every single other face comparison picture that has been posted on these forums recently i can instantly spot the difference.
Guess not everyone is good at recognizing faces.
To me it jumps right at me, and not just my own, but in every single other face comparison picture that has been posted on these forums recently i can instantly spot the difference.
Ok it seems apparent that your TRIBBLE face has more detail. If that's a problem, I'm sorry.
Guess not everyone is good at recognizing faces.
To me it jumps right at me, and not just my own, but in every single other face comparison picture that has been posted on these forums recently i can instantly spot the difference.
Could you, I don't know, circle it or something, what is actually different?
Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.
...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.
Unfortunately adding "more colors to the color palette" as suggested isn't viable. There is already a white swatch and we can't make white more white :P
To elaborate, coloring hair is essentially a "multiply" color layer (for those familiar with photoshop). The previous (Holodeck) diffuse hair textures had a lot of brown and/or grey. So choosing the white color swatch didn't make the hair any more white - it remained tinged brown and/or grey.
So this is a case in order to improve in a broader sense, we had to modify the existing assets. Whether or not that's actually perceived as an improvement leads to the next item...
Regarding hair.
I think my strong preference would be to have alternate textures for hair, maybe like the matte/glossy option for uniforms.
This might enable more Caitian style blending effects.
Same hair geo but with a dropdown that allows a selection between:
Slick (the current Holodeck version)
Bright (the Tribble version)
Natural (with a semi transparent, more Caitian like texture)
Natural Highlights (semi-transparent version with styled highlight options)
Aged (semi-transparent version with some kind of aging highlight worked in like silver temples or salt and pepper)
Same geo. Alternate textures. And with that, youtr Tribble work sticks around but gets pushed back for a more comprehensive hair revamp like some of us had hoped for).
Also, Klingon hair would be:
Braided (Current version on Holodeck)
Slick (De-emphasized braids but shiny ala Worf)
Bright (Slick with the Tribble brightness)
Tangled (more natural, semi-transparent)
Aged (Tangled but with hair discoloration as a highlight effect)
Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.
...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.
Unfortunately adding "more colors to the color palette" as suggested isn't viable. There is already a white swatch and we can't make white more white :P
To elaborate, coloring hair is essentially a "multiply" color layer (for those familiar with photoshop). The previous (Holodeck) diffuse hair textures had a lot of brown and/or grey. So choosing the white color swatch didn't make the hair any more white - it remained tinged brown and/or grey.
So this is a case in order to improve in a broader sense, we had to modify the existing assets. Whether or not that's actually perceived as an improvement leads to the next item...
What bothers me about the hair color changes is that some of the blonde and brown hair colors were made noticeably lighter. Is there a way to give Andorians whiter hair and still preserve the other hair colors? I don't quite understand your technical explanation of what was changed, but is it possible to add a slider to the tailor to control the effect?
So for example, *if* you guys think the lightened hair is horrible and don't care that Andorians (or any other species) can't have pure white hair, we will consider that feedback and work to find a solution, even if that means undo-ing the work that was done.
Please keep the pure white hair option. And if you haven't done so already, please make pure white a color option for all hairstyles. It never looked good to me because it was tinted.
I personally didn't think Andorians had a problem with not having white enough hair, but I guess others disagree.
I find the constant scowling look on Klingon faces as terrible as the new happy faces on everyone else. I just want an option to have no visible emotions at all on my character.
Still waiting for an explanation as to why female characters are now skin and bones.
The old normal maps were fine, the new ones are quite frankly very bony and disgusting.
Unfortunately its not as minor as you think.
I find these changes instantly noticable on any character I have seen before, mine or others compared to holodeck and tribble.
And if these were actual people in real life, just looking at them would be to me two entirely different persons(holodeck vs tribble).
I applaud the wish to expand and improve things.
But quite frankly the improvements are not worth it if the cost is too high.
And having hours of careful work and sculpting demolished in an instant is a cost that is too high.
So yes, in this case I do much preferr the tailor to remain "stagnant" as far as physical parameters go.
At the very least existing heads should not be overwritten with a new format, but rather grandfathered into an "old" category, where the dimensions and proportions remain "exactly" as they are, and then people can have the choice to use the new and improved head types or not.
I am 100% with the "grandfathering" idea.
If that isn't viable for all the work you have done, then I'll take it to the jaw and spend hours fixing my characters again (hopefully embracing the new options), but if my characters can retain their looks and if, I see reason to do so, improve them with the additional options you want to provide to us. I appreciate hard work and dedication with good intentions, regardless of if it affects me adversely, but know that I appreciate personable compromises even moreso.
I've played with my characters for nearly two years.
Is there any chance of getting these in the tailor at some point? hairand more hair.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Thank you for your continued feedback and input crypticjoejing, whilst I can't speak for everyone I do appreciate your giving us some insight into the reasons behind some of the things you do.
Whilst I like most of the work you have done on the new heads and complexions my main complaints are still that smirking mouth and overall shininess of everything. Would it be possible to implement stoleviathan99's suggestion of a matt/glossy toggle for hair?
Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.
...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.
So for example, *if* you guys think the lightened hair is horrible and don't care that Andorians (or any other species) can't have pure white hair, we will consider that feedback and work to find a solution, even if that means undo-ing the work that was done.
I've snipped your quote above to fit with a point I want to make, so I appologise if something is taken out of context.
You say you lightened the hair to allow for a more "pure white" colour, citing Andorians as an example. However, from the overall playerbase how many people actually play Andorians or have characters with white hair?
Personally, I've never seen a single post on these forums asking for a character's hair to be made more white (I'm not saying there hasn't just that I have never seen one), yet you've chosen to fix this "problem" at the expense of the rest of the playerbase.
The side effect of this "fix" is that every other character in game that doesn't have white hair now has a much lighter hair colour and it's even worse for characters with black hair because they now look silver/grey under bright light.
It seems you decided the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many.
It has a silverish almost metallic sheen to it and in most lighting looks like my toon is going grey. I used to be able to get near jet black.
IMO, as little as it may be worth, I think preserving black may be more important than allowing white. Just think of the number of people you know, have seen in public or saw on the shows that have black hair or even very dark hair and compare that to the number of people in that same demographic that have an almost sun bleached hue to their hair.
Mouth, cheeks, chin, cheekbones, jawbone, nose, head width.
Honestly suprised the difference isn't obvious to you.
When I first looked at your comparison picture I didn't notice much difference other than the obvious mouth update and hair colour change.
However, after looking at it more closely for a while, I did notice that the scar position is different. It's almost touching the hairline on Holo whereas there is a notable gap on Tribble. Plus the face seems slightly more round/chubby in the Tribble picture along with the nose looking more flat in the profile shot.
Whether those changes would be enough to upset the majority of the playerbase I can't say. However it's your character and, like you, I am also very protective of how my characters look.
It also makes me extremely leery of ever again making full use of the character editor to create a character to my exact wishes.
Why?
Simple, whats to say that another year or two from now they won't make further tweaks and so-called improvements to the character tools, that once again demolish yet more hours of work perfecting it?
What guarantee do we even have that we won't be facing the exact same scenario here a few years from now?
If you let this update go live in this condition, you risk alienating the people that an update like this would be aimed at.
Those who put a lot of time and thought into building their characters.
This is why the new improvements MUST be fully optional and in no way alter the appearance of existing characters.
It also makes me extremely leery of ever again making full use of the character editor to create a character to my exact wishes.
Why?
Simple, whats to say that another year or two from now they won't make further tweaks and so-called improvements to the character tools, that once again demolish yet more hours of work perfecting it?
What guarantee do we even have that we won't be facing the exact same scenario here a few years from now?
If you let this update go live in this condition, you risk alienating the people that an update like this would be aimed at.
Those who put a lot of time and thought into building their characters.
This is why the new improvements MUST be fully optional and in no way alter the appearance of existing characters.
I think many of us may share a similar sentiment. However you mention that the work may be invalidated in a matter of years. This is two seasons in a row. I'm not sure its even been 6 months since the last time we dealt with changes and that last dev post in this thread makes me believe it will happen 6 months from now when were talking about season 10. I agree that stagnation can destroy a game but in an MMO undoing a players hard work on a routine basis can do the same thing.
Still waiting for an explanation as to why female characters are now skin and bones.
-Snip-
I find these changes instantly noticable on any character I have seen before, mine or others compared to holodeck and tribble.
And if these were actual people in real life, just looking at them would be to me two entirely
And you're 100% positive your lighting/resolution settings are the same on Tribble and Holodeck, Alex? Because honestly, after playing around with my toons on Tribble and Holodeck, they look pretty much the same.
To the extent I see differences in the faces here, it looks like your holodeck one has a bit more shadow, that's all.
What's all this about female characters are skin and bones *now*? They've always been rather skinny, IMO.
And you're 100% positive your lighting/resolution settings are the same on Tribble and Holodeck, Alex? Because honestly, after playing around with my toons on Tribble and Holodeck, they look pretty much the same.
To the extent I see differences in the faces here, it looks like your holodeck one has a bit more shadow, that's all.
What's all this about female characters are skin and bones *now*? They've always been rather skinny, IMO.
Settings are identical, and this isnt just shading, these are physical dimensions that are different.
As for females being skin and bones, you can now actually "count" individual ribs now when properly illuminated.
Also the stomach no longer has the same lines that makes it look "athletic" like it does on holdeck.
Its just flat without any real muscle definition.
Settings are identical, and this isnt just shading, these are physical dimensions that are different.
As for females being skin and bones, you can now actually "count" individual ribs now when properly illuminated.
Also the stomach no longer has the same lines that makes it look "athletic" like it does on holdeck.
Its just flat without any real muscle definition.
I been able to see my toon's ribs on holodeck for quite some time, though. The female toons are perpetually a bit too thin, in my view. This isn't something that strikes me as new in this build.
I been able to see my toon's ribs on holodeck for quite some time, though. The female toons are perpetually a bit too thin, in my view. This isn't something that strikes me as new in this build.
I wonder if it's my settings, cause I currently can't.
It also makes me extremely leery of ever again making full use of the character editor to create a character to my exact wishes.
Why?
Simple, whats to say that another year or two from now they won't make further tweaks and so-called improvements to the character tools, that once again demolish yet more hours of work perfecting it?
What guarantee do we even have that we won't be facing the exact same scenario here a few years from now?
If you let this update go live in this condition, you risk alienating the people that an update like this would be aimed at.
Those who put a lot of time and thought into building their characters.
This is why the new improvements MUST be fully optional and in no way alter the appearance of existing characters.
Comments
Well.......there aren't any new faces or heads for klingons
Yes. Also, as a German, I find it very strange when people constantly smile for no apparent reason.
True. If Cryptic would only spend a fraction of the time they use on changing textures to update Klingons. They need this more than any other species in the game.
My KDF Rom is now smiling though and I don't like it.
Well......maybe if the feedback on these new complexions and head types is very positive, they might do the same for klingons giving them faces that aren't scowling making them always look like they woke up on the wrong side of the bat'leth. Reman faces could use some work too and more options. My male reman has no head type or complexion options, but from what other players are saying, it seems to be a major bug with my character as others do have the options that my reman is missing for some reason.
So here's hoping. (*cough* klingons need more hairstyles too *cough)
I really do love the new complexions and head types. Not only does it give us a wider array of diversity among our characters and bridge officers, but most importantly it increases the amount of options we have. Currently we have like 3 complexions, 3 old complexions, and 2 head types for most species. So with season 9 that will be increased to 5 complexions, 3 old complexions, and 5 head types. Might be more, I'd have to double check.
Edit: Seriously though. My klingon has a look on his face like the air filtration system went down on the his small bridge, and he just realized that his species needs to bathe more often. That or someone on the bridge passed a silent-but-very-deadly and he is trying to figure out who to execute for stinking up the place. :P
And in an attempt to improve the feedback loop and efficiency so we can do a better job addressing your concerns, some feedback in return - and this goes for just about any feedback on the forums, not just character related:
1. Clarity and relevance. Please be clear about what your feedback refers to. This thread has gone from heads and complexions (as the subject line states) to body textures, hair, etc. Obviously, it becomes hard to follow.
Worse, are the comments like "Why'd you waste time making a new head, when the reputation system is broken!?" It's not helpful and completely irrelevant - as others are usually quick to point out (and many thanks for that!), character artists make character art.
2. Next, keep the feedback constructive. Keep in mind we're always working hard to improve the game and give you more and better options. That's quite the opposite of trying to TRIBBLE you over, so hostility isn't necessary.
3. Related, try to keep things in perspective and avoid hyperbole. It's hard to prioritize issues if every issue is claimed to be priority 1.
Obviously, you are intimately familiar with your character that you've been playing with possibly for years, but the level of differences in the shots is minor and many people wouldn't be able to tell a difference without side-by-side comparison. "Completely ruined" implies the face is melted or something.
We've tried very hard to retain the existing heads while improving their lighting in more environments (not just Character Creation/Tailor) and implementing the new heads. We're hoping that it's an overall win for you and new players, but if you truly think your character is "completely ruined" then apologies for using this example.
But just to reiterate the point, try and keep things in perspective - do you want the game to stagnate, locked by old systems and set-ups or to grow? Often in order to expand, some of the old systems and assets need to be revisited to allow for compatibility and sometimes there's a bigger picture goal that might improve the game in many more ways (ways that you might actually appreciate even more).
This is a good segue into:
Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.
...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.
Unfortunately adding "more colors to the color palette" as suggested isn't viable. There is already a white swatch and we can't make white more white :P
To elaborate, coloring hair is essentially a "multiply" color layer (for those familiar with photoshop). The previous (Holodeck) diffuse hair textures had a lot of brown and/or grey. So choosing the white color swatch didn't make the hair any more white - it remained tinged brown and/or grey.
So this is a case in order to improve in a broader sense, we had to modify the existing assets. Whether or not that's actually perceived as an improvement leads to the next item...
4. STO is a living, growing, and continuing game and your feedback counts regardless of when we get it, and it can, will, and does change the game:
Heh, what's funny is when we do it right, Tribble *is* usually how you guys should see changes "before they go in". We couldn't possibly screenshot or video every permutation of every change and addition and then hope to have enough eyes and feedback before truly going live.
So for example, *if* you guys think the lightened hair is horrible and don't care that Andorians (or any other species) can't have pure white hair, we will consider that feedback and work to find a solution, even if that means undo-ing the work that was done.
Again, being a game that has no intention of stopping, we have that capability. Sometimes there will be successes and much rejoicing and other times there will be setbacks and back-to-the-drawing-board days.
5. That's not to say every complaint will, or even could be addressed. Related to keeping things in perspective - just look at this thread. Some people love some aspects of what we've added/updated and others hate the very same aspects.
Understand we try to make things continually better and respect that there will be differing opinions and if we don't address your particular criticism one time, we very well might address your next one.
6. Just know we're on your side and we're trying to make the best Star Trek universe we can for you.
PS - in case you missed it, here's a dev blog talking about the new heads and complexions: http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/3040403
Willst du das jeder so aussieht wie Luise Koschinsky ?
It really means alot.
It's very important me, and I am sure many others, that you put yourself out and come into the 'bullpen', as it were. You don't see that often.
I realize no one is going to agree on everything, and the game has to progress. I thoroughly appreciate your work on the models. I've said it before, I LOVE options. I think my OCD takes over a little bit, though, when my character is altered without my own input.
In the interest of progress and more options, I'm very excited about the changes, albeit, obviously I have my reservations about parts of it affecting my current characters.
Regardless, I plan on elaborating on feedback when I have a few spare minutes.
Please keep the pure white hair option. And if you haven't done so already, please make pure white a color option for all hairstyles. It never looked good to me because it was tinted.
And if you can find the time can you guys please fix the New Style Elegant hairstyle? It was released with the Legacy of Romulus launch but it looks awful. The hair on the sides of the face clip through the head unless the face is rather skinny. On the back of the head there is a spot that was never closed causing the skull to be seen through this spot. All this was reported about that hairstyle during closed beta testing for LoR and again after it went live that way and we've never had a response on it or any fixes.
I honestly see no differences at all between the two. You've seen this character more then me, so if you say it is different I'll take your word for it.
The old normal maps were fine, the new ones are quite frankly very bony and disgusting.
Unfortunately its not as minor as you think.
I find these changes instantly noticable on any character I have seen before, mine or others compared to holodeck and tribble.
And if these were actual people in real life, just looking at them would be to me two entirely different persons(holodeck vs tribble).
I applaud the wish to expand and improve things.
But quite frankly the improvements are not worth it if the cost is too high.
And having hours of careful work and sculpting demolished in an instant is a cost that is too high.
So yes, in this case I do much preferr the tailor to remain "stagnant" as far as physical parameters go.
At the very least existing heads should not be overwritten with a new format, but rather grandfathered into an "old" category, where the dimensions and proportions remain "exactly" as they are, and then people can have the choice to use the new and improved head types or not.
Guess not everyone is good at recognizing faces.
To me it jumps right at me, and not just my own, but in every single other face comparison picture that has been posted on these forums recently i can instantly spot the difference.
Could you, I don't know, circle it or something, what is actually different?
Regarding hair.
I think my strong preference would be to have alternate textures for hair, maybe like the matte/glossy option for uniforms.
This might enable more Caitian style blending effects.
Same hair geo but with a dropdown that allows a selection between:
Slick (the current Holodeck version)
Bright (the Tribble version)
Natural (with a semi transparent, more Caitian like texture)
Natural Highlights (semi-transparent version with styled highlight options)
Aged (semi-transparent version with some kind of aging highlight worked in like silver temples or salt and pepper)
Same geo. Alternate textures. And with that, youtr Tribble work sticks around but gets pushed back for a more comprehensive hair revamp like some of us had hoped for).
Also, Klingon hair would be:
Braided (Current version on Holodeck)
Slick (De-emphasized braids but shiny ala Worf)
Bright (Slick with the Tribble brightness)
Tangled (more natural, semi-transparent)
Aged (Tangled but with hair discoloration as a highlight effect)
What bothers me about the hair color changes is that some of the blonde and brown hair colors were made noticeably lighter. Is there a way to give Andorians whiter hair and still preserve the other hair colors? I don't quite understand your technical explanation of what was changed, but is it possible to add a slider to the tailor to control the effect?
I personally didn't think Andorians had a problem with not having white enough hair, but I guess others disagree.
Haha, no!
I find the constant scowling look on Klingon faces as terrible as the new happy faces on everyone else. I just want an option to have no visible emotions at all on my character.
I am 100% with the "grandfathering" idea.
If that isn't viable for all the work you have done, then I'll take it to the jaw and spend hours fixing my characters again (hopefully embracing the new options), but if my characters can retain their looks and if, I see reason to do so, improve them with the additional options you want to provide to us. I appreciate hard work and dedication with good intentions, regardless of if it affects me adversely, but know that I appreciate personable compromises even moreso.
I've played with my characters for nearly two years.
hair and more hair.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Whilst I like most of the work you have done on the new heads and complexions my main complaints are still that smirking mouth and overall shininess of everything. Would it be possible to implement stoleviathan99's suggestion of a matt/glossy toggle for hair?
I've snipped your quote above to fit with a point I want to make, so I appologise if something is taken out of context.
You say you lightened the hair to allow for a more "pure white" colour, citing Andorians as an example. However, from the overall playerbase how many people actually play Andorians or have characters with white hair?
Personally, I've never seen a single post on these forums asking for a character's hair to be made more white (I'm not saying there hasn't just that I have never seen one), yet you've chosen to fix this "problem" at the expense of the rest of the playerbase.
The side effect of this "fix" is that every other character in game that doesn't have white hair now has a much lighter hair colour and it's even worse for characters with black hair because they now look silver/grey under bright light.
It seems you decided the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many.
http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/Body_Surfer/media/screenshot_2014-04-11-05-39-26_zps95634122.jpg.html
It has a silverish almost metallic sheen to it and in most lighting looks like my toon is going grey. I used to be able to get near jet black.
IMO, as little as it may be worth, I think preserving black may be more important than allowing white. Just think of the number of people you know, have seen in public or saw on the shows that have black hair or even very dark hair and compare that to the number of people in that same demographic that have an almost sun bleached hue to their hair.
Mouth, cheeks, chin, cheekbones, jawbone, nose, head width.
Honestly suprised the difference isn't obvious to you.
When I first looked at your comparison picture I didn't notice much difference other than the obvious mouth update and hair colour change.
However, after looking at it more closely for a while, I did notice that the scar position is different. It's almost touching the hairline on Holo whereas there is a notable gap on Tribble. Plus the face seems slightly more round/chubby in the Tribble picture along with the nose looking more flat in the profile shot.
Whether those changes would be enough to upset the majority of the playerbase I can't say. However it's your character and, like you, I am also very protective of how my characters look.
Why?
Simple, whats to say that another year or two from now they won't make further tweaks and so-called improvements to the character tools, that once again demolish yet more hours of work perfecting it?
What guarantee do we even have that we won't be facing the exact same scenario here a few years from now?
If you let this update go live in this condition, you risk alienating the people that an update like this would be aimed at.
Those who put a lot of time and thought into building their characters.
This is why the new improvements MUST be fully optional and in no way alter the appearance of existing characters.
I think many of us may share a similar sentiment. However you mention that the work may be invalidated in a matter of years. This is two seasons in a row. I'm not sure its even been 6 months since the last time we dealt with changes and that last dev post in this thread makes me believe it will happen 6 months from now when were talking about season 10. I agree that stagnation can destroy a game but in an MMO undoing a players hard work on a routine basis can do the same thing.
That sounds cool. I would like to have that complexion/texture as an option please.
And you're 100% positive your lighting/resolution settings are the same on Tribble and Holodeck, Alex? Because honestly, after playing around with my toons on Tribble and Holodeck, they look pretty much the same.
To the extent I see differences in the faces here, it looks like your holodeck one has a bit more shadow, that's all.
What's all this about female characters are skin and bones *now*? They've always been rather skinny, IMO.
Settings are identical, and this isnt just shading, these are physical dimensions that are different.
As for females being skin and bones, you can now actually "count" individual ribs now when properly illuminated.
Also the stomach no longer has the same lines that makes it look "athletic" like it does on holdeck.
Its just flat without any real muscle definition.
I been able to see my toon's ribs on holodeck for quite some time, though. The female toons are perpetually a bit too thin, in my view. This isn't something that strikes me as new in this build.
I wonder if it's my settings, cause I currently can't.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^