A true point. In a canonical timeline, the Romulans would be on the path to extinction--that or they'd be the next suliban. The Klingon Empire would stake claims over the former RSE space and the federation would eventually be driven to separation from and war with the Empire--so Cryptic would have their war either way. The Tal Shiar would be the only substantial remnants of the Romulans, either being hunted down and captured/eliminated or becoming the most secretive, reclusive subsociety since the "shroomies" (Elachi in STO), while the remainder of the people would wind up as the vagabonds of the quadrant, doomed to roam the stars indefinitely.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy"~ The Doctor
While we're on the topic of Romulans, feast you eyes on this--I want a Fleet Retrofit of one of these, using the centaur's saucer and the excelsior's nacelles.
All of these examples that you're providing are places that already had infrastructure, and an economy in place. The Romulans in question, don't have that. They're refugees that for all intents, and purposes, fled into the wilderness, and are now a hunted people. Do you understand the difference? Sure you can stretch whatever you want. That's what Cryptic did. All I'm saying is that it's unreasonable to think that instead of hiding out in a cave somewhere, these people are already building command centers, embassies, and orbital shipyards. It's completely unreasonable to think they'd get any help at all from the Klingons. And it's also a folly to think that the Federation would be of much help, with all the protracted wars on multiple fronts, that they are bogged down with.
In a tech level where you push a button and have a set of clothes or an energy weapon. Define a lack of infrastructure? Compared to the previous examples the romulans are well off with the handful of star ships and their equipment compared to a colonial or earlier period.
So again how far fetched is it?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Did anyone see my last post? Considering im not on my computer you all will have to scroll up, but my point was, the romulans dont need help from anyone.
Oh there is more then that, we had the Great Fire of London that didnt caused the collapse of the British Empire ... or for that matter burning of Washington.
People place too importance on silly things as "capital" ... if someone nuked Washington it would have zero impact in the US ability to strike back, even if a natural catastrophe caused such destruction it would have not ended a entire nation, here is are examples ... when Rome burned down or the earthquake that hit Lisbon.
The notion of "homeworld" is simply a place were our home was, if we start to colonize stars its likely Earth and Sol will eventually lose their importance outside being the Human homeworld but eventually that is all that will be, like Philadelphia being the place of the American declaration of independence and first Congress but now?
None, the only problem with the Romulan Star Empire seem that after Shinzon it entered a period of instability, the "refugees" are likely the product of the Romulan government being either incapable or unwilling to deal with their own population that ends up having to govern itself at a planetary level because the central government cannot or just wont want to deal with certain worlds.
And this is the problem, Cryptic simply make a new faction unlike the Romulans of yore and ... forgot to tell us anything about them, hardly a surprise people dont really understand what the Romulan Republic is.
... I guess strapping lazers to dino heads was more important ...
That is fits perfectly in with the amount of stuff we....don't really know right now.
For example we do know that Remus was a production source for industry and heavy weaponry but we don't know how important it was or how much of the overall military output it contributed. We only know that it's gone now.
Same applies to the question how many of the important yards and key industries were in the Romulan home system. Given they were a very centralized bunch we can only speculate. And again the same lack of info applies now: how many key pieces of infrastructure are in the hands of the RSE and how many in the hands of the RR?
It's very likely that the systems closer to the center of power are the more industrialised ones so the RR is probably made up of worlds like Virinat which was not exactly an example of a world that explouinted the resources of the planet effectively.
In a tech level where you push a button and have a set of clothes or an energy weapon. Define a lack of infrastructure? Compared to the previous examples the romulans are well off with the handful of star ships and their equipment compared to a colonial or earlier period.
So again how far fetched is it?
I think chrisbrown confused you for me. Thanks for responding to the timeline question though, I thought this all happened in 2409 as well. However, I think my other points have been glossed over so I'll reiterate them.
1) What the hell have the Cardassians been doing all this time? If as you say the RR can do this, without even a homeworld, why are the Cardassians STILL rebuilding 30 years later? If you want to take that route the Cardassians should be back to full strength now, especially having a comparatively stable government, and years of support from the UFP.
2) Sela had far more resources available to her, in addition to extra support from the Elachi and Iconians. Using this logic, she should be able to wipe out the RR with pure numbers.
3) We cannot say the RR needs help from noone when they need are taking help from the two major powers of the quadrant.
Also, chrisbrown you mentioned why's and how's and said feiqa was ignoring facts earlier. However, you are also attempting to change facts(the Scimitar variants ARE the current flagships) , with your own reasons, the why's and how's are what we are here to debate no?
EDIT: The KDF and Rommie variants are much sexier than the Fed one. That warbird's pretty Romulanesque though.
I think chrisbrown confused you for me. Thanks for responding to the timeline question though, I thought this all happened in 2409 as well. However, I think my other points have been glossed over so I'll reiterate them.
1) What the hell have the Cardassians been doing all this time? If as you say the RR can do this, without even a homeworld, why are the Cardassians STILL rebuilding 30 years later? If you want to take that route the Cardassians should be back to full strength now, especially having a comparatively stable government, and years of support from the UFP.
2) Sela had far more resources available to her, in addition to extra support from the Elachi and Iconians. Using this logic, she should be able to wipe out the RR with pure numbers.
3) We cannot say the RR needs help from noone when they need are taking help from the two major powers of the quadrant.
Also, chrisbrown you mentioned why's and how's and said feiqa was ignoring facts earlier. However, you are also attempting to change facts(the Scimitar variants ARE the current flagships) , with your own reasons, the why's and how's are what we are here to debate no?
EDIT: The KDF and Rommie variants are much sexier than the Fed one. That warbird's pretty Romulanesque though.
Let me see what I can answer.
1) I shall start with. I don't know. Realistically they should not still be picking up the pieces. The bajorans reclaimed their ravished homeworld and began rebuilding fairly quickly with one industrial fabricator, before the wormhole was discovered. So unless they had to pay tons of reparations the cardassian union should be stable by now.
2) Sheer numbers except they treat their own troops as fodder. The Elachi indoctrination process has a poor survival rate. But the fact they were indoctrinating other species means they should not be written off. They may have sleepers in every power by now.
3) From the tone from D'tan when he went for the aid it seems he wants some Federation help. But mostly wants to keep the Klingon empire from invading. Hard enough to keep your world intact while fighting off multiple foes. And the aid has proven useful. When the Elachi assault New Romulus the Federation and the KDF respond by sending ships to help turn the tide. The battle was pushing the Republic defenders back. It is debatable if they could have held without the assistance.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Thinking about the battle of New Romulus after my last post I thought of a few things that make the Scimitar a logical choice in world and on a meta level.
Meta: They already included all the other Nemesis stuff. Might as well introduce the ship as well.
In world:
1) The battle of New Romulus showed a weakness in the fleet. The Haakona while a good ship, could not be a center piece in a battle as it did not provide enough fire power on its own. The Scimitar however would give greater defensive and offensive might to a fleet.
2) The people of the Republic need to know they are well defended and are not thralls of either the Federation or the Empire. So a flagship is a symbol to them to give them hope and strength.
3) A flagship shows the other powers that they are indeed a power intending to stick around and grow. It shows strength and resolve to the Federation and Empire.
4) Engineering cost. The Scimitar is a known design. If we assume Obisek has the plans and some of his people helped build the original then the tooling to build these ships is more readily available than if they come up with an all new design.
Number four is the one I like the least as the Scimitar does not have the swept grace noted in Romulan ships. But it has some logic as to why it would be right now.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I think chrisbrown confused you for me. Thanks for responding to the timeline question though, I thought this all happened in 2409 as well. However, I think my other points have been glossed over so I'll reiterate them.
LOL this might of been the case...it was late when i posted...lol
1) What the hell have the Cardassians been doing all this time? If as you say the RR can do this, without even a homeworld, why are the Cardassians STILL rebuilding 30 years later? If you want to take that route the Cardassians should be back to full strength now, especially having a comparatively stable government, and years of support from the UFP.
I didnt speak on this because we were talking about romulans, but as Val kilmer said in Tombstone, Im your huckleberry....lol To put it plainly, the cardies have nothing to offer anyone. And with the true way stealing the ships they stole, and corruption still being a part of the cardy government, people might be weary to aid them significantly.
2) Sela had far more resources available to her, in addition to extra support from the Elachi and Iconians. Using this logic, she should be able to wipe out the RR with pure numbers.
Yes and no... Sela had a fleet of ships. she wasnt(at least at first.) supported by entire groups of whole worlds like the RR is. By the time she was, she represents the government that oppressed the lower romulan classes and the RR is a government open to reunification peace with former enemies, fully against the Tal Shiar who loomed over the romulan populace and military with fear, a government where the merets of the person class lead to honor. (simple farmer to trusted fleet officer.)
3) We cannot say the RR needs help from noone when they need are taking help from the two major powers of the quadrant.
NEEDING help and TAKING help are two different things. As i said, they dont really need help too much but they could use that help to get goals done faster then they could do alone, or to save their resources while using those of others. It is also possible that the FED and KDF or supporting the RR so it becomes the dominate romulan government, prefering the RR because it is more inclined to peace and cooperation.
Also, chrisbrown you mentioned why's and how's and said feiqa was ignoring facts earlier. However, you are also attempting to change facts(the Scimitar variants ARE the current flagships) , with your own reasons, the why's and how's are what we are here to debate no?
The fact that they are current flagship are not up for debate. Whether or not they SHOULD be is. I based my arguement on the scimitar class ship's Reman orgins as cause for the reason they should not be the flagship. I started by saying the Scimitar(the original) is a 100% Reman ship while those that followed are romulan copies of a reman ship.
Someone said that the romulans could of made their own flagship, lacking the shipyards to do so.
I countered by saying if the romulans can construct scimitar class ships, AND design variants, then they could of designed a flagship which is more Romulan looking, which is what many romulan players would like. I also said that the only reason the Falchion was written in as the Flagship is because it was the most powerful ship in the romulan fleet. But the fact remains, if the romulans can construct Falchion, Talwar, and Scimitar class ships, the romulans, being prideful people, should have made a more romulan looking ship instead of copying ship from their former slaves, effectively making the Romulans "Star Trek Chinese"(google copied BMW for details.)
EDIT: The KDF and Rommie variants are much sexier than the Fed one. That warbird's pretty Romulanesque though.
See red.
Also, i want to see the full 3d models of the new ships before i pass judgement.
Thinking about the battle of New Romulus after my last post I thought of a few things that make the Scimitar a logical choice in world and on a meta level.
Meta: They already included all the other Nemesis stuff. Might as well introduce the ship as well.
In world:
1) The battle of New Romulus showed a weakness in the fleet. The Haakona while a good ship, could not be a center piece in a battle as it did not provide enough fire power on its own. The Scimitar however would give greater defensive and offensive might to a fleet.
True. i agree, but this only shows a need for a new flagship, not that it SHOULD be the scimitar.
2) The people of the Republic need to know they are well defended and are not thralls of either the Federation or the Empire. So a flagship is a symbol to them to give them hope and strength.
I bolded the important part. They need a symbol to give them hope and strength, not a symbol that the remans support them.
3) A flagship shows the other powers that they are indeed a power intending to stick around and grow. It shows strength and resolve to the Federation and Empire.
It shows the romulans are too lazy to construst their own ship because they copied the reman design, then made two more ships based on the same ship.
4) Engineering cost. The Scimitar is a known design. If we assume Obisek has the plans and some of his people helped build the original then the tooling to build these ships is more readily available than if they come up with an all new design.
The engineering cost the made this or any other flagship would have been the same. the R&D cost of not using the Scimitar and its ilk would have been higher. although, considering they funded the R&D on two maybe three new ships. there is NOTHING to say they could not afford to field the completely new flagship design instead of coping the Remans. Remember, the Talwar and the falchion ARE two new ships even if based on the Scimitar and the Flagship is A Falchion class. These ship didnt have to be Scimitar looking, they could have been more romulan in appearance.
This barely explains the the Talwar and the falchion. Two completely new, even if similar classes. If they were to use the basic design it could of at least been made to look more romulan and less Reman. While i can maybe understand keep the Scimitar's orginal look, the talwar and the falchion, two new ship could have been more graceful and streamline looking. there is NO reason other than "someone was lazy" that they arent. The romulans made two new ships, and COPIED the remans. Period. How can you be prideful ok coping others and thus how can a copied reman ship be the prideful flag of the romulans?
The KDF at one point, only had 50 years of life left. even then, thier flagships were all still klingon made and not copies of other people's ships. My side of the debate only wants the same for the romulans.
Number four is the one I like the least as the Scimitar does not have the swept grace noted in Romulan ships. But it has some logic as to why it would be right now.
The KDF at one point, only had 50 years of life left. even then, thier flagships were all still klingon made and not copies of other people's ships. My side of the debate only wants the same for the romulans.
See the problem here is you think I am on the other side of this arguement. I think the Romulan Republic could and has reasons to field a flagship. I think said flagship should be in the lines of the traditional Romulan appearance. And not Reman design nor the winged phallic symbols they have now.
My first post suggested something like the Vet reward destroyer only bigger. It has the sleek streamlined grace of previous designs that steadfastly says it is Romulan.
My defense of the remans here is to show how the Republic can have the resources to build ships and flagships.
The only parts that make sense for the Scimitar are what I posted previously. It was ready to be built already and fit the criteria for a powerful center piece to a fleet.
Do I like it? No.
I think the Republic should consider the ship an interim flagship only till they get a more Romulan one that can do the job of the scimitar or better it.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
See the problem here is you think I am on the other side of this arguement. I think the Romulan Republic could and has reasons to field a flagship. I think said flagship should be in the lines of the traditional Romulan appearance. And not Reman design nor the winged phallic symbols they have now.
My first post suggested something like the Vet reward destroyer only bigger. It has the sleek streamlined grace of previous designs that steadfastly says it is Romulan.
My defense of the remans here is to show how the Republic can have the resources to build ships and flagships.
The only parts that make sense for the Scimitar are what I posted previously. It was ready to be built already and fit the criteria for a powerful center piece to a fleet.
Do I like it? No.
I think the Republic should consider the ship an interim flagship only till they get a more Romulan one that can do the job of the scimitar or better it.
Its not that i think you are against me, its just that some or your points seem to give credits to opposition. Which is why spoke up about it.
I DO understand you too want a more romulan flagship.....
IDK, maybe i am comparing apples and oranges when i should just be happy its all fruit.
In the end, perhaps time will tell. Maybe the devs will look upon this thread and think some good points were raised and make a new flagship for the RR. Maybe they point and laugh and think we are far too into the game.
I would hope that they would want to be true to the romulans of the TNG, at least the good ones.... In the end, any people would be prideful of their makings. Are americans prideful of the F-22 Raptor? As an american, yes i am. Its am awesome aircraft. Were the Japanese prideful of the Yamato? Damn right they were.....too bad for them it came too late in the war to matter. I look the the falchion and think, that is the romulan flagship and all i see is a copied reman ship. THAT is suppose to be prideful for the romulans? I can get on my Tac FED toon, pull out the oddy and think, what a great ship! While the Scimitar my romulan has IS a great ship, somehow it just isnt as symbolic as the DD or the romulan Bird-of-prey. those ship ooze romulan pride while the Scimitar and its ilk ooze "Star Trek movie uber ship." ...in a movie where the romulans were not even the villains, they were lackies.
Its not that i think you are against me, its just that some or your points seem to give credits to opposition. Which is why spoke up about it.
I DO understand you too want a more romulan flagship.....
IDK, maybe i am comparing apples and oranges when i should just be happy its all fruit.
In the end, perhaps time will tell. Maybe the devs will look upon this thread and think some good points were raised and make a new flagship for the RR. Maybe they point and laugh and think we are far too into the game.
I would hope that they would want to be true to the romulans of the TNG, at least the good ones.... In the end, any people would be prideful of their makings. Are americans prideful of the F-22 Raptor? As an american, yes i am. Its am awesome aircraft. Were the Japanese prideful of the Yamato? Damn right they were.....too bad for them it came too late in the war to matter. I look the the falchion and think, that is the romulan flagship and all i see is a copied reman ship. THAT is suppose to be prideful for the romulans? I can get on my Tac FED toon, pull out the oddy and think, what a great ship! While the Scimitar my romulan has IS a great ship, somehow it just isnt as symbolic as the DD or the romulan Bird-of-prey. those ship ooze romulan pride while the Scimitar and its ilk ooze "Star Trek movie uber ship." ...in a movie where the romulans were not even the villains, they were lackies.
For the bold point I put in. I should hope not. Dedicated fans that want more also spend more. So they should be interested in it from that point of view at the least.
As to the rest. I agree on all your counts. Something to be proud of is what the Republic needs in a ship.
Now we just need that ship.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
So what are you saying? the romulans cant create new ships from the ground up?
Ar'kif and ar'kala says hello.
Are you sayign the romulans dont have the resources to make capitol ships?
Falchion and Talwar says hello.
The romulan have the resources, and man power and the shpyards to do everything needed in the designing and building of a new flagship storyline wise.
All we really need is the devs to go ahead and make the new ship. And it is not like the jromulans dont need any new ships, the romulan line up is the shortest of ALL the other factions.
I think the romulans should get the Romulan teo flightdeck carrier they have been asking for, in the form of the new flagship. Sometime KDF carrier-like following the DD's "jack of all trades, master of none" set up.
Or maybe just reskin the Scimitar like i suggested before.....but for the love of god, something.
So what are you saying? the romulans cant create new ships from the ground up?
Ar'kif and ar'kala says hello.
Are you sayign the romulans dont have the resources to make capitol ships?
Falchion and Talwar says hello.
The romulan have the resources, and man power and the shpyards to do everything needed in the designing and building of a new flagship storyline wise.
All we really need is the devs to go ahead and make the new ship. And it is not like the jromulans dont need any new ships, the romulan line up is the shortest of ALL the other factions.
I think the romulans should get the Romulan teo flightdeck carrier they have been asking for, in the form of the new flagship. Sometime KDF carrier-like following the DD's "jack of all trades, master of none" set up.
Or maybe just reskin the Scimitar like i suggested before.....but for the love of god, something.
I think what he is arguing is that no society can ever build itself up to the point of starships no matter how much technology nor resources because they are not English colonists. Actually I lost sight of his arguments a long time ago as he keep redefining his point to ignore. . well anything.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Actually, if you retrace the track of this thread, you'll find my point has remained static throughout, and it's you who keeps altering his argument to find a way to fit the square peg in the round hole. I say the Romulan refugees would be similar to actual real world refugees, a people with no economy, and nothing to offer, and on the run from their enemies. You liken them to breakaway city-states, and colonies that through some quantum quirk of reality, are actually better off, economically, than when they were part of the RSE, due to the ridiculous scenario of the UFP, and the Klingons, falling all over themselves to help a duplicitous enemy, get back on their feet, despite being involved in multiple wars of their own. How many centuries did it take for the Federation, and the Empire to become as powerful as they are? Seems like the RR got there overnight. I can see a refugee flotilla. I can even see some sort of fortified, underground, (where things can't drop out of the sky and carry you off into space) camp, hidden by holograms, but orbital shipyards designing new ships? Embassies? that's just rubbish.
I can not understand your way of thinking. You say the romulans have no Economy but this just is not true. there are still romulan held planets that trade with each other, the very basis of an economy. So your are wrong one that account. You say they have nothing to offer yet the FED and the KDF actively pursue Treaties with them. They also have control over the Dyson tech, it being in their space and all. At the very least they have the dyson tech, which the FED and KDF, AND the voth want..... So you are also wrong on this account. You say they are "on the run" from their enemies yet they have settled down on new romulus and put down roots, creating a new homeworld...not the actions of one who is running. When their enemies showed up to defeat them, the romulans prevailed each time. I would seem you are wrong about this as well.
You are oh for three.
I also would like to say that the RR is made up of the reunification movement, and the lower class romulans of thr RSE so in many social ways they ARE better off. In fact there are far more of them than the former romulan social elite which currently follow sela. Being the majority, they have spread themselves out on many different worlds since the civil unrest caused by Shinzon. many of these worlds were keeping to themselves when the hobus star blew and they joined together because of the Elahchi, creating a bunch of self efficient.....how did you put it....City states each with their own stability with in themselves. D'tan was only "on the run" until the enemies you spoke of showed up and which point, these "city states" came together forming the RR.
This isnt a RSE remnant. these arent refugees. Not anymore. they are a stable, NEW romulan government that has risen from the ashes of both the hobus star/Romulus destruction and the collapse of the RSE. They ARE on their feet. the KDF and and the FED are only helping to buy brownie points so when the rebuilding is complete they can say they helped and maybe do what either side has wanted to do for the longest time, MAKE THE ROMULANS ALLIES.
You liken the romulans to the KDF and the FED in getting to a point of power but the technology is already at the romulans' disposal. They didnt get there, "over night" they had the tech when they left Romulus! They are some people who just discovered warp drive through the Dyson sphere. There are a people who have reformed their government who already have advance tech AND THEN found a dyson sphere full of MORE advanced tech. You SEE it during the romulan story line...or are too surrounded and blinded by close mindedness to see that?
Whether or not their shipyards are orbital is a matter for debate BUT they DO have them, how eles are they building new ships? the atrkif, the arkala, the Falchion and talwar ship had to come from SOMEWHERE. Where do you propose they are coming from? Embassies? Go to new romulan, their HOMEWORLD and beam down to it. you can walk within it and after that, if you STILL question its in game existence then.....
or maybe you should finish your rom toon, it sounds like you have not finish the storyline. Once you do that you will see the romulan can more than handle their own. they dont NEED anyones help. but as i said before,
Its much better to let people THINK you are weak when you really arent. Seems like someone handed D'tan Sun Tzu's book....
Ok chris, with regards to the Cardies not having anything to offer:
"In return, Rom received exclusive trade agreements to distribute Cardassian trade goods once the factories reopen. While Rom was mocked by many Ferengi for his lack of lobes when it comes to business, if the deal succeeded it could be one of the mose lucrative arrangements in recent memory."
"Madred's mines were operating at such a high capacity that he began exporting kelindide and uridium through Ferengi brokers. His first major buyers were Romulans, who were desperate to rebuild ships and expand their colonies."
Two of the accolade stories. I imagine they must have things people want, if this deal is to be lucrative. Also, clearly even the Romulans need stuff from them. They also had a peacetime Federation, the undisputable richest of the quadrant powers funding their rehabilitation. They still possessed their planets, albeit heavily damaged, and a fleet. Most importantly they were united. In comparison, the Romulans:
Had a civil war (Shinzon)
Got split in two (RSE & IRS), which I might add, caused Tal'Aura to accepted Federation food aid....a full half of the Empire, with Romulus intact was forced to accept shipments of food from the Federation, and had food riots!
Had their planet not just heavily damaged but BLOWN UP
Had civil war (general chaos between planets)
Got partially invaded by the Klingons
Had a civil war (Taris vs Sela)
Had a civil war (RSE vs RR)
Just BEGAN to develop a planet (New Romulus)
Also, the majority of the resources appears to have stayed with Sela. Is it really believable that the RR can surpass the Cardassians who have been rebuilding since the 2370's, all in 2409? So I would have to say no, they are not on their feet. They are still building, growing. The storyline skeleton isn't bad but needs to be cleaned up for glaring inconsistencies. His (capnkirk's) reasoning isn't farfetched for someone who has finished the story. It's especially contradictory to say that they would take aid (without needing it) from the Federation and KDF, yet would be too proud to use Reman designs as a flagship. Hopefully, future storylines address this.
The Arkif/Arkala is not a bad idea for a flagship. However, I don't see much need to take out the Scimitar, since this is not the prideful Romulans from the shows, D'Tan, is clearly inclusive of Remans, and Reman designs should be part of the new RR. A Reman/Romulan design(Falchion/Tulwar) is representative of that rather than an "all-Romulan" design.
Ok chris, with regards to the Cardies not having anything to offer:
"In return, Rom received exclusive trade agreements to distribute Cardassian trade goods once the factories reopen. While Rom was mocked by many Ferengi for his lack of lobes when it comes to business, if the deal succeeded it could be one of the mose lucrative arrangements in recent memory."
"Madred's mines were operating at such a high capacity that he began exporting kelindide and uridium through Ferengi brokers. His first major buyers were Romulans, who were desperate to rebuild ships and expand their colonies."
Very GOOD points sir. I admit my saying "Nothing to offer" might have been a stretch however, do you think all that can compare to the resources from the Dyson Sphere? Also, the cardies will not be allowed to develop and force anywhere near what they had before. because of this, they cant offer any military aid beyond token aid to anyone. i realize the romulans cant either...YET. and "yet" is the keyword here, at some point they will. Soon, if their speed of progress keeps up.
Two of the accolade stories. I imagine they must have things people want, if this deal is to be lucrative. Also, clearly even the Romulans need stuff from them. They also had a peacetime Federation, the undisputable richest of the quadrant powers funding their rehabilitation. They still possessed their planets, albeit heavily damaged, and a fleet. Most importantly they were united. In comparison, the Romulans:
Had a civil war (Shinzon)
Got split in two (RSE & IRS), which I might add, caused Tal'Aura to accepted Federation food aid....a full half of the Empire, with Romulus intact was forced to accept shipments of food from the Federation, and had food riots!
Had their planet not just heavily damaged but BLOWN UP
Had civil war (general chaos between planets)
Got partially invaded by the Klingons
Had a civil war (Taris vs Sela)
Had a civil war (RSE vs RR)
Just BEGAN to develop a planet (New Romulus)
Also, the majority of the resources appears to have stayed with Sela. Is it really believable that the RR can surpass the Cardassians who have been rebuilding since the 2370's, all in 2409? So I would have to say no, they are not on their feet. They are still building, growing. The storyline skeleton isn't bad but needs to be cleaned up for glaring inconsistencies. His (capnkirk's) reasoning isn't farfetched for someone who has finished the story. It's especially contradictory to say that they would take aid (without needing it) from the Federation and KDF, yet would be too proud to use Reman designs as a flagship. Hopefully, future storylines address this.
i cant believe this, Sela had the same thing D'tan had when he left, a fleet of ships. Also i dont believe saying its contradictory to accept help and yet be too proud to use reman ships. I say that because it is always prudent to allow others to do work for you so that you can attain other goals. It is sound politics. In this manner, you can complete more by politically manipulating others...something romulans are very good at. But when you want something to smybolize you and your people, EVEN if you are a romulan including the remans, why would you want a ship that only says Reman? Even if romulans built it, all it says is romulans can copying good ships. Wouldnt it be better to have a ship that looks like it came from BOTH people? the Falchion and Talwar do not look this way IMO.
The Arkif/Arkala is not a bad idea for a flagship. However, I don't see much need to take out the Scimitar, since this is not the prideful Romulans from the shows, D'Tan, is clearly inclusive of Remans, and Reman designs should be part of the new RR. A Reman/Romulan design(Falchion/Tulwar) is representative of that rather than an "all-Romulan" design.
What do they have to trade with these other Romulan held worlds, IOUs? No goods and services from New romulus....duh... Weren't these other worlds attacked by the Elachi, too? Yes which is why they banded together and formed the RR....In any case, you don't think these other worlds would be more likely to side with the Tal Shiar in order to maintain the status quo, as opposed to throwing in with the underdog in a civil war?Depends....would you want to "throw in" with the same people that have been oppressing you through fear? Or going the the people who has been trying to change romulans for the better? Do you honestly think the Klingon empire would make deals with Romulans to share the Dyson tech, rather than take it for themselves?And if they tried that, they would have to deal with the romulans...who would call on the fed to help them in return for shared dyson tech. this wouldnt be too far of a stretch, there IS still a war on. And that the Federation wouldn't be forced to respond militarily to keep the Klingons from doing that,Yes they would. If they didnt the Klingons would get there hands on advanced Tech, shifting the balance of power into the klingon's favor. the FED couldnt and wouldnt allow that to happen. turning New Romulus, and the space around it into a battlezone, that not many commercial captains would bother to risk flying into? We haven't even accounted for the Voth's interest yet. the voth only care about the Dyson sphere. and even then, to help them fighting whoever they are fighting. I'm sure they wouldn't be adverse to establishing a beachhead into the alpha quadrant, on New Romulus.
for what prupose, the Voth arent the conquering type. they never were. Why establish a beached ANYWHERE. Even if they were, that MORE reason for the FED to step in and help keep them out...IF they were that type. Again, the voth arent.
At any rate, your problem seems to be that you're misinterpreting my argument. Yes, the RR have shipyards and are now constructing battleships. Yes, they have gained control of the sphere, and are telling the Feds, and Klinks, how it's gonna be used. Yes, the Iconians, or the Elachi, or whoever don't seem interested in finishing the job. I'm not saying that this stuff isn't portrayed in the game, I'm saying it's foolish, shoddy, writing, to portray it this way, in the game at all.
This maybe poor writing, but that doesnt chance the events which are what they are. I dont write the story i just play the game.
I have no real objection to the Falchion as the flagship of the New Romulan Republic, although I would like to see something that looks more Romulan in aesthetic design, and have some serious reservations about the Scimitar having been originally intended to be a weapon of mass destruction capable of destroying all life on a planet. To object to it based on supposed age of design is not something I'm going to look upon favorably (see my various comments on making a T5 Connie, D7, and T'liss, referring to holographic technology and more advanced construction materials, to say nothing of the modular design of starships which allows for upgrading older ships with new equipment easily). To object to it based on it being supposedly designed by Remans just smells bad; Romulans and Remans are one, as they should be. Those who want to promote an alleged xenophobic racist view of Romulans, I've already addressed comments in the past and see no need to rehash them here.
To touch on something said a few pages back, I don't think the Scimitar/Tulwar/Falchion looks much like a bird at all; to me, it looks more like some kind of shark/manta ray hybrid.
And this takes me back to what I said above about Romulan ship design aesthetics. Romulan ships have generally (with few exceptions) had some resemblance to birds, and the Dreadnought trio just do not look like birds.
And I'm very pleased that Tiaru Jarok is the commanding officer of the R.R.W. Lleiset.
So that it? You have no valid argument, other than Cryptic wrote an improbably, ludicrous, scenario, and you support it. Fair 'nuff.
Let me see if I can explain it to you.
First with the way resources work in the trek universe, speed is how fast can the replicators work. If you give them enough resources in then you improve production speed.
Now for the background.
Some of this has been gone over in the politics thread btw.
Many of the klingons at the khitomer talks suggested exactly what you say. They should invade, wipe out the romulans and take the planet. It is after all the warrior way.
The klingon ambassador is working through his speech saying how they should not support the romulans at all. After all how many times have they been fooled before?
Had this gone in this vein the Federation would have declared the prime directive and maybe lent a trickle of humanitarian aid. But most likely washed their hands of it. The klingons would have invaded and no RR.
But, Temer sacrificed himself to save the klingon ambassador. That martyrdom goes to the heart of klingon honour. They now needed to give assistance to honour that sacrifice.
Now with the klingons helping the RR, the Federation can't ignore them. If they do then the RR becomes another vassal of the empire and they can extend the war front clean around the sol system. But by supporting the RR with aid themselves they put a toe hold down and keep them as a buffer against the klingons. D'tan is now getting matching aid from both sides as they do not want the romulans to go to their opponents. They get to be a second/third world nation getting gifts from both super powers in a cold war effect.
How they got in was by just a little bit. How the two powers stay in is through needing to keep their neighbor from joining the otherside. When the gateway is discovered. D'tan calls in both sides to help. Because if he hid it then one side or the other would carpet bomb New Romulus. By bringing them both to the table he gets more income and they get a stake in the tech. Look at the gate way in Jouret. When Shon suggest destroying it, the romulan representative says their government won't be happy and will reconsider their stance. This makes the klingon representative ready to drive in the wedge and offer full support of the idea. It was the Omega particles detected that got another Omega Force running on the otherside of the gateway. The gate is from a RR controlled world, so they have them handle most of the paperwork on it while the two powers send in ships.
And take the time to spy on each other at the same time.
Politically it really does fit. Unless D'tan works to be the reason for peace between the two super factions. Peace between them is probably the last thing he will want to see. Because the cold war is what is giving him a Federation and Klingon gold card.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
First with the way resources work in the trek universe, speed is how fast can the replicators work. If you give them enough resources in then you improve production speed.
Now for the background.
Some of this has been gone over in the politics thread btw.
Many of the klingons at the khitomer talks suggested exactly what you say. They should invade, wipe out the romulans and take the planet. It is after all the warrior way.
The klingon ambassador is working through his speech saying how they should not support the romulans at all. After all how many times have they been fooled before?
Had this gone in this vein the Federation would have declared the prime directive and maybe lent a trickle of humanitarian aid. But most likely washed their hands of it. The klingons would have invaded and no RR.
But, Temer sacrificed himself to save the klingon ambassador. That martyrdom goes to the heart of klingon honour. They now needed to give assistance to honour that sacrifice.
Now with the klingons helping the RR, the Federation can't ignore them. If they do then the RR becomes another vassal of the empire and they can extend the war front clean around the sol system. But by supporting the RR with aid themselves they put a toe hold down and keep them as a buffer against the klingons. D'tan is now getting matching aid from both sides as they do not want the romulans to go to their opponents. They get to be a second/third world nation getting gifts from both super powers in a cold war effect.
In affect, the romulans are getting aid they dont necessarily need. One side it helping to prevent the romulans from being an alliy to their enemy. i believe i said something like this myself.....glad to see SOMEONE understand politics.
How they got in was by just a little bit. How the two powers stay in is through needing to keep their neighbor from joining the otherside. When the gateway is discovered. D'tan calls in both sides to help. Because if he hid it then one side or the other would carpet bomb New Romulus. By bringing them both to the table he gets more income and they get a stake in the tech. Look at the gate way in Jouret. When Shon suggest destroying it, the romulan representative says their government won't be happy and will reconsider their stance. This makes the klingon representative ready to drive in the wedge and offer full support of the idea. It was the Omega particles detected that got another Omega Force running on the otherside of the gateway. The gate is from a RR controlled world, so they have them handle most of the paperwork on it while the two powers send in ships.
Agreed. THIS is what i was saying to capnkirk. The romulans are being helped to prevent one side ofr the FED/KDF war from getting an advantage. THIS is how they have rebuilt faster than the cardies. The cardies dont bring anything(not much of anything), to the table while the romulans could deicide who wins the FED/KDF war simply by joining a side...with the dyson tech as a bonus sealing any deal. Only reason i can see that he wouldnt is because without choosing a side he can contiune to manipulate both sides into helping him. If he chooses a side, he can only milk one side.
And take the time to spy on each other at the same time.
Politically it really does fit. Unless D'tan works to be the reason for peace between the two super factions. Peace between them is probably the last thing he will want to see. Because the cold war is what is giving him a Federation and Klingon gold card.
SOOOO THIS.
Once again you put things in a very clear light and i thank you.
So that it? You have no valid argument, other than Cryptic wrote an improbably, ludicrous, scenario, and you support it. Fair 'nuff.
I didnt write to story, and seeing how i cant turn back time and write in myself, fill all plot holes, just what can i blood do. Whether I LIKE IT or not, it is what it is.
If you dont like the writing what is YOUR course of action?
If you yourself dont have one, then calling attention to the bad writing is just you showing youre losing the debate because you have to resort to logical fallacies....
Comments
"The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy" ~ The Doctor
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_peregrine.html
"The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy" ~ The Doctor
In a tech level where you push a button and have a set of clothes or an energy weapon. Define a lack of infrastructure? Compared to the previous examples the romulans are well off with the handful of star ships and their equipment compared to a colonial or earlier period.
So again how far fetched is it?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Cryptic can't used fanfiction material for legal reasons so they can't just go around grabbing stuff from the internet.
That is fits perfectly in with the amount of stuff we....don't really know right now.
For example we do know that Remus was a production source for industry and heavy weaponry but we don't know how important it was or how much of the overall military output it contributed. We only know that it's gone now.
Same applies to the question how many of the important yards and key industries were in the Romulan home system. Given they were a very centralized bunch we can only speculate. And again the same lack of info applies now: how many key pieces of infrastructure are in the hands of the RSE and how many in the hands of the RR?
It's very likely that the systems closer to the center of power are the more industrialised ones so the RR is probably made up of worlds like Virinat which was not exactly an example of a world that explouinted the resources of the planet effectively.
I think chrisbrown confused you for me. Thanks for responding to the timeline question though, I thought this all happened in 2409 as well. However, I think my other points have been glossed over so I'll reiterate them.
1) What the hell have the Cardassians been doing all this time? If as you say the RR can do this, without even a homeworld, why are the Cardassians STILL rebuilding 30 years later? If you want to take that route the Cardassians should be back to full strength now, especially having a comparatively stable government, and years of support from the UFP.
2) Sela had far more resources available to her, in addition to extra support from the Elachi and Iconians. Using this logic, she should be able to wipe out the RR with pure numbers.
3) We cannot say the RR needs help from noone when they need are taking help from the two major powers of the quadrant.
Also, chrisbrown you mentioned why's and how's and said feiqa was ignoring facts earlier. However, you are also attempting to change facts(the Scimitar variants ARE the current flagships) , with your own reasons, the why's and how's are what we are here to debate no?
EDIT: The KDF and Rommie variants are much sexier than the Fed one. That warbird's pretty Romulanesque though.
Let me see what I can answer.
1) I shall start with. I don't know. Realistically they should not still be picking up the pieces. The bajorans reclaimed their ravished homeworld and began rebuilding fairly quickly with one industrial fabricator, before the wormhole was discovered. So unless they had to pay tons of reparations the cardassian union should be stable by now.
2) Sheer numbers except they treat their own troops as fodder. The Elachi indoctrination process has a poor survival rate. But the fact they were indoctrinating other species means they should not be written off. They may have sleepers in every power by now.
3) From the tone from D'tan when he went for the aid it seems he wants some Federation help. But mostly wants to keep the Klingon empire from invading. Hard enough to keep your world intact while fighting off multiple foes. And the aid has proven useful. When the Elachi assault New Romulus the Federation and the KDF respond by sending ships to help turn the tide. The battle was pushing the Republic defenders back. It is debatable if they could have held without the assistance.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Meta: They already included all the other Nemesis stuff. Might as well introduce the ship as well.
In world:
1) The battle of New Romulus showed a weakness in the fleet. The Haakona while a good ship, could not be a center piece in a battle as it did not provide enough fire power on its own. The Scimitar however would give greater defensive and offensive might to a fleet.
2) The people of the Republic need to know they are well defended and are not thralls of either the Federation or the Empire. So a flagship is a symbol to them to give them hope and strength.
3) A flagship shows the other powers that they are indeed a power intending to stick around and grow. It shows strength and resolve to the Federation and Empire.
4) Engineering cost. The Scimitar is a known design. If we assume Obisek has the plans and some of his people helped build the original then the tooling to build these ships is more readily available than if they come up with an all new design.
Number four is the one I like the least as the Scimitar does not have the swept grace noted in Romulan ships. But it has some logic as to why it would be right now.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
See red.
Also, i want to see the full 3d models of the new ships before i pass judgement.
See the problem here is you think I am on the other side of this arguement. I think the Romulan Republic could and has reasons to field a flagship. I think said flagship should be in the lines of the traditional Romulan appearance. And not Reman design nor the winged phallic symbols they have now.
My first post suggested something like the Vet reward destroyer only bigger. It has the sleek streamlined grace of previous designs that steadfastly says it is Romulan.
My defense of the remans here is to show how the Republic can have the resources to build ships and flagships.
The only parts that make sense for the Scimitar are what I posted previously. It was ready to be built already and fit the criteria for a powerful center piece to a fleet.
Do I like it? No.
I think the Republic should consider the ship an interim flagship only till they get a more Romulan one that can do the job of the scimitar or better it.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
"The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy" ~ The Doctor
Its not that i think you are against me, its just that some or your points seem to give credits to opposition. Which is why spoke up about it.
I DO understand you too want a more romulan flagship.....
IDK, maybe i am comparing apples and oranges when i should just be happy its all fruit.
In the end, perhaps time will tell. Maybe the devs will look upon this thread and think some good points were raised and make a new flagship for the RR. Maybe they point and laugh and think we are far too into the game.
I would hope that they would want to be true to the romulans of the TNG, at least the good ones.... In the end, any people would be prideful of their makings. Are americans prideful of the F-22 Raptor? As an american, yes i am. Its am awesome aircraft. Were the Japanese prideful of the Yamato? Damn right they were.....too bad for them it came too late in the war to matter. I look the the falchion and think, that is the romulan flagship and all i see is a copied reman ship. THAT is suppose to be prideful for the romulans? I can get on my Tac FED toon, pull out the oddy and think, what a great ship! While the Scimitar my romulan has IS a great ship, somehow it just isnt as symbolic as the DD or the romulan Bird-of-prey. those ship ooze romulan pride while the Scimitar and its ilk ooze "Star Trek movie uber ship." ...in a movie where the romulans were not even the villains, they were lackies.
For the bold point I put in. I should hope not. Dedicated fans that want more also spend more. So they should be interested in it from that point of view at the least.
As to the rest. I agree on all your counts. Something to be proud of is what the Republic needs in a ship.
Now we just need that ship.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
So what are you saying? the romulans cant create new ships from the ground up?
Ar'kif and ar'kala says hello.
Are you sayign the romulans dont have the resources to make capitol ships?
Falchion and Talwar says hello.
The romulan have the resources, and man power and the shpyards to do everything needed in the designing and building of a new flagship storyline wise.
All we really need is the devs to go ahead and make the new ship. And it is not like the jromulans dont need any new ships, the romulan line up is the shortest of ALL the other factions.
I think the romulans should get the Romulan teo flightdeck carrier they have been asking for, in the form of the new flagship. Sometime KDF carrier-like following the DD's "jack of all trades, master of none" set up.
Or maybe just reskin the Scimitar like i suggested before.....but for the love of god, something.
I think what he is arguing is that no society can ever build itself up to the point of starships no matter how much technology nor resources because they are not English colonists. Actually I lost sight of his arguments a long time ago as he keep redefining his point to ignore. . well anything.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I can not understand your way of thinking. You say the romulans have no Economy but this just is not true. there are still romulan held planets that trade with each other, the very basis of an economy. So your are wrong one that account. You say they have nothing to offer yet the FED and the KDF actively pursue Treaties with them. They also have control over the Dyson tech, it being in their space and all. At the very least they have the dyson tech, which the FED and KDF, AND the voth want..... So you are also wrong on this account. You say they are "on the run" from their enemies yet they have settled down on new romulus and put down roots, creating a new homeworld...not the actions of one who is running. When their enemies showed up to defeat them, the romulans prevailed each time. I would seem you are wrong about this as well.
You are oh for three.
I also would like to say that the RR is made up of the reunification movement, and the lower class romulans of thr RSE so in many social ways they ARE better off. In fact there are far more of them than the former romulan social elite which currently follow sela. Being the majority, they have spread themselves out on many different worlds since the civil unrest caused by Shinzon. many of these worlds were keeping to themselves when the hobus star blew and they joined together because of the Elahchi, creating a bunch of self efficient.....how did you put it....City states each with their own stability with in themselves. D'tan was only "on the run" until the enemies you spoke of showed up and which point, these "city states" came together forming the RR.
This isnt a RSE remnant. these arent refugees. Not anymore. they are a stable, NEW romulan government that has risen from the ashes of both the hobus star/Romulus destruction and the collapse of the RSE. They ARE on their feet. the KDF and and the FED are only helping to buy brownie points so when the rebuilding is complete they can say they helped and maybe do what either side has wanted to do for the longest time, MAKE THE ROMULANS ALLIES.
You liken the romulans to the KDF and the FED in getting to a point of power but the technology is already at the romulans' disposal. They didnt get there, "over night" they had the tech when they left Romulus! They are some people who just discovered warp drive through the Dyson sphere. There are a people who have reformed their government who already have advance tech AND THEN found a dyson sphere full of MORE advanced tech. You SEE it during the romulan story line...or are too surrounded and blinded by close mindedness to see that?
Whether or not their shipyards are orbital is a matter for debate BUT they DO have them, how eles are they building new ships? the atrkif, the arkala, the Falchion and talwar ship had to come from SOMEWHERE. Where do you propose they are coming from? Embassies? Go to new romulan, their HOMEWORLD and beam down to it. you can walk within it and after that, if you STILL question its in game existence then.....
or maybe you should finish your rom toon, it sounds like you have not finish the storyline. Once you do that you will see the romulan can more than handle their own. they dont NEED anyones help. but as i said before,
Its much better to let people THINK you are weak when you really arent. Seems like someone handed D'tan Sun Tzu's book....
"In return, Rom received exclusive trade agreements to distribute Cardassian trade goods once the factories reopen. While Rom was mocked by many Ferengi for his lack of lobes when it comes to business, if the deal succeeded it could be one of the mose lucrative arrangements in recent memory."
"Madred's mines were operating at such a high capacity that he began exporting kelindide and uridium through Ferengi brokers. His first major buyers were Romulans, who were desperate to rebuild ships and expand their colonies."
http://sto.gamepedia.com/The_Path_to_2409
Two of the accolade stories. I imagine they must have things people want, if this deal is to be lucrative. Also, clearly even the Romulans need stuff from them. They also had a peacetime Federation, the undisputable richest of the quadrant powers funding their rehabilitation. They still possessed their planets, albeit heavily damaged, and a fleet. Most importantly they were united. In comparison, the Romulans:
Also, the majority of the resources appears to have stayed with Sela. Is it really believable that the RR can surpass the Cardassians who have been rebuilding since the 2370's, all in 2409? So I would have to say no, they are not on their feet. They are still building, growing. The storyline skeleton isn't bad but needs to be cleaned up for glaring inconsistencies. His (capnkirk's) reasoning isn't farfetched for someone who has finished the story. It's especially contradictory to say that they would take aid (without needing it) from the Federation and KDF, yet would be too proud to use Reman designs as a flagship. Hopefully, future storylines address this.
The Arkif/Arkala is not a bad idea for a flagship. However, I don't see much need to take out the Scimitar, since this is not the prideful Romulans from the shows, D'Tan, is clearly inclusive of Remans, and Reman designs should be part of the new RR. A Reman/Romulan design(Falchion/Tulwar) is representative of that rather than an "all-Romulan" design.
See all red.
To touch on something said a few pages back, I don't think the Scimitar/Tulwar/Falchion looks much like a bird at all; to me, it looks more like some kind of shark/manta ray hybrid.
And this takes me back to what I said above about Romulan ship design aesthetics. Romulan ships have generally (with few exceptions) had some resemblance to birds, and the Dreadnought trio just do not look like birds.
And I'm very pleased that Tiaru Jarok is the commanding officer of the R.R.W. Lleiset.
Let me see if I can explain it to you.
First with the way resources work in the trek universe, speed is how fast can the replicators work. If you give them enough resources in then you improve production speed.
Now for the background.
Some of this has been gone over in the politics thread btw.
Many of the klingons at the khitomer talks suggested exactly what you say. They should invade, wipe out the romulans and take the planet. It is after all the warrior way.
The klingon ambassador is working through his speech saying how they should not support the romulans at all. After all how many times have they been fooled before?
Had this gone in this vein the Federation would have declared the prime directive and maybe lent a trickle of humanitarian aid. But most likely washed their hands of it. The klingons would have invaded and no RR.
But, Temer sacrificed himself to save the klingon ambassador. That martyrdom goes to the heart of klingon honour. They now needed to give assistance to honour that sacrifice.
Now with the klingons helping the RR, the Federation can't ignore them. If they do then the RR becomes another vassal of the empire and they can extend the war front clean around the sol system. But by supporting the RR with aid themselves they put a toe hold down and keep them as a buffer against the klingons. D'tan is now getting matching aid from both sides as they do not want the romulans to go to their opponents. They get to be a second/third world nation getting gifts from both super powers in a cold war effect.
How they got in was by just a little bit. How the two powers stay in is through needing to keep their neighbor from joining the otherside. When the gateway is discovered. D'tan calls in both sides to help. Because if he hid it then one side or the other would carpet bomb New Romulus. By bringing them both to the table he gets more income and they get a stake in the tech. Look at the gate way in Jouret. When Shon suggest destroying it, the romulan representative says their government won't be happy and will reconsider their stance. This makes the klingon representative ready to drive in the wedge and offer full support of the idea. It was the Omega particles detected that got another Omega Force running on the otherside of the gateway. The gate is from a RR controlled world, so they have them handle most of the paperwork on it while the two powers send in ships.
And take the time to spy on each other at the same time.
Politically it really does fit. Unless D'tan works to be the reason for peace between the two super factions. Peace between them is probably the last thing he will want to see. Because the cold war is what is giving him a Federation and Klingon gold card.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Once again you put things in a very clear light and i thank you.
I didnt write to story, and seeing how i cant turn back time and write in myself, fill all plot holes, just what can i blood do. Whether I LIKE IT or not, it is what it is.
If you dont like the writing what is YOUR course of action?
If you yourself dont have one, then calling attention to the bad writing is just you showing youre losing the debate because you have to resort to logical fallacies....