PVP in this game could be great. For somethin the devs don't pay any attention to, it's a solid system with great depth and versatility. The problem lies not with the system itself per say, but with the inability of the players to understand their role in team play.
Given, the PVE portion of the game does nothing to prepare you for anything like the arenas or cap splode or kerrat even. That does not take away from from the individual player's ability to survey their captain's abilities and the ships layed out before them to determine an optimal layout to maximize that players impact in a team environment.
When it comes down to it, every game I'm playing right now since my hiatus appears to take tremendous grind and practice to get the gear and experience to perform in PVP. Yet it seems only here players are so against playing their suited role in a team environment.
These other games have options to, well.... "Kirk it up" so to speak in STO lingo. But when it comes to pvp, I found 3 communities that have a drive to really dial in to their class and maximize their impact for the team. Communication, through voice chat or bind text calling, and regular reflection post match on what could have gone better. It was really a sight to see, this past week of vacation.
So, I don't think it's premades or PUGs. It's the player base.
Those who wish to dedicate the time are just not here in mass. And universal consoles and power creep just add to the frustration.
PVP in this game could be great. For somethin the devs don't pay any attention to, it's a solid system with great depth and versatility. The problem lies not with the system itself per say, but with the inability of the players to understand their role in team play.
Given, the PVE portion of the game does nothing to prepare you for anything like the arenas or cap splode or kerrat even. That does not take away from from the individual player's ability to survey their captain's abilities and the ships layed out before them to determine an optimal layout to maximize that players impact in a team environment.
When it comes down to it, every game I'm playing right now since my hiatus appears to take tremendous grind and practice to get the gear and experience to perform in PVP. Yet it seems only here players are so against playing their suited role in a team environment.
These other games have options to, well.... "Kirk it up" so to speak in STO lingo. But when it comes to pvp, I found 3 communities that have a drive to really dial in to their class and maximize their impact for the team. Communication, through voice chat or bind text calling, and regular reflection post match on what could have gone better. It was really a sight to see, this past week of vacation.
So, I don't think it's premades or PUGs. It's the player base.
Those who wish to dedicate the time are just not here in mass. And universal consoles and power creep just add to the frustration.
Have fun kill bad guys.
-horizon
Hey Horizon, glad you chimed in since you were mentioned in the thread.
Anyway, taking a little break myself, only logging in for rep grind and the occasional premade match or tournament.
So, a few of us are playing WarThunder, a nice WW2 themed air combat game. Check it out, you might like it. I got a certain nuclear physicist coming to play it too. lol. My handle is _sp_bmr1580 You should try it.
Gotta stop you right there with that. There are many reasons to not use TS not least of which is because you either do not have a mic or you're not in an environment where you can be using said mic.
I live in one of those environments, nothing prevents me from:
A) Making important keybinds. Listening to the team with your mic off.
Unless you are doing top end premade v premade, tournament level stuff - you can be on TS, listen and participate with team chat keybinds and increase your performance by quite a lot.
Then there's the hearing part, some people do play into the evening and thus might have sound turned off to not disturb the neighbours or other family members.
A cheap set of headphones costs about 5 to 25 USD.
the below link might contain strong language that is generally inappropriate at all times, you have been warned.
Then there's this sort of thing that makes people not use TS or any voice coms at all, ever outside of with friends.
And what will you do when someone is mean to you in the real world?
Stay inside forever?
There are jackholes in this world.
Developing a thick skin and learning how to either avoid them, out-think them or let their stupidity bounce off you are lessons that everyone should learn and apply to their entire life - not just gaming.
Or "you" (the general you) can crawl into a hole, and hide from all the nasty people and let them win.
How do they win?
Well, they've pushed you so far into a corner you deprive yourself of meeting good people.
Gotta stop you right there with that. There are many reasons to not use TS not least of which is because you either do not have a mic or you're not in an environment where you can be using said mic.
I live in one of those environments, nothing prevents me from:
A) Making important keybinds. Listening to the team with your mic off.
Unless you are doing top end premade v premade, tournament level stuff - you can be on TS, listen and participate with team chat keybinds and increase your performance by quite a lot.
It can be difficult. Oh, no doubt I agree 99.9% about the listening part...but it's that 0.1% that's a real doozie there. You know how folks can be tools on the forums or in chat in the game...yeah...when you actually hear them, well - it's a lot harder just to shrug it off. There's a tendency to watch to find them...and instead of doing a /facepalm, introduce your palm to their face.
I've left guilds, corps, clans, etc, etc, etc...just not wanting to have to listen to some of the garbage that's being said.
Without diligent and rigorous controls in place - it's just not worth it...
...random good people in a video game aren't worth the garbage that's out there.
PVP in this game could be great. For somethin the devs don't pay any attention to, it's a solid system with great depth and versatility. The problem lies not with the system itself per say, but with the inability of the players to understand their role in team play.
Given, the PVE portion of the game does nothing to prepare you for anything like the arenas or cap splode or kerrat even. That does not take away from from the individual player's ability to survey their captain's abilities and the ships layed out before them to determine an optimal layout to maximize that players impact in a team environment.
When it comes down to it, every game I'm playing right now since my hiatus appears to take tremendous grind and practice to get the gear and experience to perform in PVP. Yet it seems only here players are so against playing their suited role in a team environment.
These other games have options to, well.... "Kirk it up" so to speak in STO lingo. But when it comes to pvp, I found 3 communities that have a drive to really dial in to their class and maximize their impact for the team. Communication, through voice chat or bind text calling, and regular reflection post match on what could have gone better. It was really a sight to see, this past week of vacation.
So, I don't think it's premades or PUGs. It's the player base.
Those who wish to dedicate the time are just not here in mass. And universal consoles and power creep just add to the frustration.
Have fun kill bad guys.
-horizon
Good points horizon. Now in these three games, I assume the gear grind to be PvE grind? And are you rewarded for playing to your classes strength during that grind? I think the resistance of the player-base to min-max their class, is simple how badly sci and eng are suited for STO PvE compared to Tacs. Who needs a full heal boat in ISE, or CC healer? Who needs SNB?
And what will you do when someone is mean to you in the real world?
Stay inside forever?
There are jackholes in this world.
Developing a thick skin and learning how to either avoid them, out-think them or let their stupidity bounce off you are lessons that everyone should learn and apply to their entire life - not just gaming.
Or "you" (the general you) can crawl into a hole, and hide from all the nasty people and let them win.
How do they win?
Well, they've pushed you so far into a corner you deprive yourself of meeting good people.
There's a difference between online games and the real world. In the real world if someone is abusive like that you can phone the police, you can get restraining orders and generally most people do not act like that at least due to peer pressure.
In an online "community" behaviour like that is very common against women, the elderly and even kids. There's a lot of abuse that normally people might not say and there's a difference between hearing it once and blocking to hearing it every single time you switch on the microphone or hop in team speak.
You can have as thick skin as you want but after a certain point you just decide FU and don't bother with that sort of thing outside of established friends.
It's not crawling into a hole, it's avoiding the torrent of moronic abuse. As VD says a lot of the time the random good people are just not worth it in a video game a lot of the time.
As for key binds etc, there's a thread in the PvP forums, why not post a key bind file as a sort of standard for them to use that has "attack X", heals please, science team please etc.That way it's easily accessible for new players. If I'm mistaken sorry but last I looked iI didn't see one.
Well, let's face it: the internet does tend to bring out the worst in some people. And, additionally, some people's sense of humour is another person's sense of wild inappropriateness.
That applies to the internet in general and is no different in online multiplayer games. However, you have the option of muting or avoiding that stuff, so it's hardly surprising some people do.
Of course, there's lots of good and nice people out there, but let's not pretend STO's is the best playerbase out there, or even that the good outnumber the bad apples, looking at those communicating in-game, in the standard channels, whispers and pm's. Or maybe they do, but are the bad apples just a very vocal minority. I don't exclude the possibility. I most certainly have been yelled at more than engaged in friendly banter, if I ignore fleet chat, and I tend to know what I'm doing, at least. That's hardly encouraging for people without much experience with communication platforms.
I remember games that offered their own IRC servers. Back then, these issues existed and they haven't changed a bit. I can totally understand and sympathise with those that see voice comm as an extra option for annoyance or abuse that they can do without.
Myself, I often play in situations where people will occasionally talk to me and be either working or watching television. That means I will often be playing muted, and in situations where headphones would be kind of rude. So yes, I got some keybinding and just type the rest in chat. *shrug* Tends to work just fine, if you have a team that knows/understands.
Without diligent and rigorous controls in place - it's just not worth it...
...random good people in a video game aren't worth the garbage that's out there.
That's your opinion on it, and that's something I'll have to respect.
Unlike yourself though, unfortunately I think too many players who feel like this also feel entitled to what they perceive as "fair" game-play. (meaning, I think you accept the reality of it)
Of course "fair" in this instance means "Please remove the advantage the other players have because they are willing to use TS/Vent."
That's definitely at the core of this issue of "premades" - because one of the biggest advantages is simple voice chat.
There's a difference between online games and the real world. In the real world if someone is abusive like that you can phone the police, you can get restraining orders and generally most people do not act like that at least due to peer pressure.
In online games you can use the ignore feature, leave the TS/Vent server or simply mute that person for you.
Do you think I don't know about people like this? My fleet has an open TS server, we take the good with the bad in order to host TD matches.
In an online "community" behaviour like that is very common against women, the elderly and even kids. There's a lot of abuse that normally people might not say and there's a difference between hearing it once and blocking to hearing it every single time you switch on the microphone or hop in team speak.
You can have as thick skin as you want but after a certain point you just decide FU and don't bother with that sort of thing outside of established friends.
It's not crawling into a hole, it's avoiding the torrent of moronic abuse. As VD says a lot of the time the random good people are just not worth it in a video game a lot of the time.
As for key binds etc, there's a thread in the PvP forums, why not post a key bind file as a sort of standard for them to use that has "attack X", heals please, science team please etc.That way it's easily accessible for new players. If I'm mistaken sorry but last I looked iI didn't see one.
You can feel about it however you choose.
You're going off in a direction very different from what I originally posted.
Unfortunately you have people who are so introverted that the mere suggestion that they use something like TS sends them into a rage, much less being "told how to play".
There are people who spew the vitriol you are talking about at the mere mention of voice chat. People who denounced Boot Camp without even trying it, simply because they had an issue in the past or simply imagined one.
My main point in all of this is that players who are willing to concede a huge advantage in voice chat, should also be prepared to lose when facing players who use it.
My problem is when these "me first" attitude players, unwilling to find friends/fleet mates to team with, unwilling to adapt their build/playstyle to team dynamics, unwilling to utilize voice chat, unwilling to play for the team instead of themselves come to the forums and let their sense of entitlement demand that the players who do use those things be sent to a separate queue so the "me first" players can enjoy their own little walled garden.
If you concede all of the things that make teaming strong, be prepared to lose in a team vs. team environment like Arena.
If anything , what those players need is a 1v1 queue - then they can find out just how poorly designed 1v1 is in this game.
That's your opinion on it, and that's something I'll have to respect.
Unlike yourself though, unfortunately I think too many players who feel like this also feel entitled to what they perceive as "fair" game-play. (meaning, I think you accept the reality of it)
Of course "fair" in this instance means "Please remove the advantage the other players have because they are willing to use TS/Vent."
That's definitely at the core of this issue of "premades" - because one of the biggest advantages is simple voice chat.
Yeah, it's definitely my choice to avoid TS like the plague - it doesn't mean other folks that do not have the issue with it should not have access to it. If they've got a cool bunch they run with or if they're more patient/tolerant than I am...awesome for them. Like I agreed with you, even just listening (and well, in my case being able to type too fast) can provide a huge advantage...and if folks can partake of it, I highly recommend they do.
I don't see it as an exploit...and well, it's just generally depressing that I have that low of an opinion of the majority of players out there; but that's not a reason that others shouldn't be able to use it.
Still, one of the things I find funny about non-voice comms is the number of folks that call a target with a keybind...rather than just having a keybind saying "my target".
There's an option in the Control tab of Options for "Assist target on attack" - and well, yeah - it's basically what it says.
For example:
You (F1)
Tom (F2)
Jerry (F3)
Bugs (F4)
Daffy (F5)
Say Jerry's calling targets. He drops out, "target Willard the Rat" in the team chat. How many folks are going to be trying to click around the map or tab around the map until they target Willard? How many are going to hit F3 and attack...in turn attacking Jerry's target?
Heck, even if they're out of range so it doesn't kick over for some reason - by selecting Jerry, they should be able to see Jerry's target and click it from there as they do move into range.
Then of course, well - one can get into the various Macro Keyboards/Mice - and the chat messages one can run from those keys without tying up their other binds.
No, they're not going to be as versatile as voice comms - but in the end, there's that entitlement thing you mention. Heh, but then again - I've admitted to having a low opinion of the majority of players out there...heh. But yeah, there is a lot of entitlement - not only in them having things, but in not having to do things. So many folks don't even want to try.
If somebody doesn't care enough to try, they shouldn't care enough to complain about it...
...but yeah, ahem, they tend to save up all their energy from not trying so they've got plenty to complain about things. :P
As much as weve grown as a fleetmade, I did make a musing to my fleetmates the other night that I will share here.
For all of the love of teamspeak, teamwork, and coordination, I personally still do my best flying and killing when I am pugging it listening to slayer blast in my ears, alone.
TS and all that are just a distraction in many cases. The only time you might "need" them are if youre going hardcore mode against another hardcore mode team doing the same thing.
I dunno, its just something ive noticed. When we took the coordination out the other night after a long day of PvPing in our premade group... I flew like I remember I used to be able to.
When I actually thought I was good. Before I realized I am still learning to be a team player (at least in this game, have done it in many other games).
I felt... strong.
Anyone else ever get this? Just going out and relying on just your own personal skills, knowing you have no healer to back you, no wingman to help you kill your target. Just you, some guns, and your wits.
Love that stuff man.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
For all of the love of teamspeak, teamwork, and coordination, I personally still do my best flying and killing when I am pugging it listening to slayer blast in my ears, alone.
.
That's how it is at first. Then you start getting used to speaking, teamwork, and you and your team becomes better for it.
I never talked at all, at first. My team leader had to force the rest of the guys to communicate. And now we can't shut up. :P But it has made us stronger as a result.
There's no substitute for being able to quickly communicate you or your teammates status, etc on the fly.
For all of the love of teamspeak, teamwork, and coordination, I personally still do my best flying and killing when I am pugging it listening to slayer blast in my ears, alone.
TS and all that are just a distraction in many cases.
...causes ol' VD to WTF?
While one of the reasons I do not like voice comms in general is because they can be too chatty, folks babbling about the most inane things without any comm discipline...
...yeah, there's no music. No in-game music. No music streaming. No music on the stereo.
It's not so much that it's a distraction, not a case of jumping up and dancing in front of the keyboard like a bad SNL skit...it's a case of potentially not hearing something.
You hear buffs - the folks in front of you do not show any SFX nor additional buffs...yeah, there's somebody behind you.
Music just kills situational awareness in a game like this. Course, it's sheer lunacy that a BOFF can't whisper in the captain's ear without decloaking a ship...but the ship itself can make sounds that can be heard up to 10km away without decloaking...but that's the way the game is.
PVE? Yep, Spotify or some YouTube channel is going to be in play.
No freaking WAY am I playing this game without music.
Also, there should be nothing audible to warn your opponents that you're activating an ability. I'm on the fence about the little indicators next to your character status. There's no rational reason why they should know when I'm hitting TT or APO, and the only way they should know if I'm buffing a certain weapon is either by interpreting scans of my power routing, or watching me open fire.
Furthermore, giving someone the ability to talk into my ear is giving them the ability to give me orders, b***h at me for not playing the "role" they assign me, or in general just talk trash. Not everyone can put together a team of 5 friends all at once.
That's how it is at first. Then you start getting used to speaking, teamwork, and you and your team becomes better for it.
I never talked at all, at first. My team leader had to force the rest of the guys to communicate. And now we can't shut up. :P But it has made us stronger as a result.
There's no substitute for being able to quickly communicate you or your teammates status, etc on the fly.
I know, but what im getting at is I still feel like I play my best game when I am not doing that.
Takes the pressure off I guess. Either letting the team down or the team letting me down? Usually the former, lolz.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Also, there should be nothing audible to warn your opponents that you're activating an ability.
Outside of an actual sound made by said ability, I agree with this. Little random "power up" sounds are silly. But that's the nature of the game...they're there...they are part of having some iota of situational awareness in the game. Music interferes with that...
I don't need audible cues to know when some clown is ginning up another round of Sci spam. You learn to expect it, because those people are usually 1-trick ponies who will do that cheesy TRIBBLE over and over and over and over and *headdesk*
No freaking WAY am I playing this game without music.
<snip>
Furthermore, giving someone the ability to talk into my ear is giving them the ability to give me orders, b***h at me for not playing the "role" they assign me, or in general just talk trash. Not everyone can put together a team of 5 friends all at once.
Thanks, you've done a better job of proving my point than I ever could have done by myself. You sir, are a shining example of why the "I'm Captain Kirk" playerbase is the biggest problem with PvP.
I don't need audible cues to know when some clown is ginning up another round of Sci spam. You learn to expect it, because those people are usually 1-trick ponies who will do that cheesy TRIBBLE over and over and over and over and *headdesk*
Okay, what isn't a 1 trick pony? You're either doing your thing with weapons or space magic. Why is 1 pony worse than the other?
Thanks, you've done a better job of proving my point than I ever could have done by myself. You sir, are a shining example of why the "I'm Captain Kirk" playerbase is the biggest problem with PvP.
So it's a "problem" that someone doesn't know four other people who play this game? :rolleyes:
Okay, what isn't a 1 trick pony? You're either doing your thing with weapons or space magic. Why is 1 pony worse than the other?
Heck, even using more than one weapon is more creative than hammering two or three GW buttons over and over. Then there's maneuvers beyond "fly in a circle."
So it's a "problem" that someone doesn't know four other people who play this game? :rolleyes:
Heck, even using more than one weapon is more creative than hammering two or three GW buttons over and over. Then there's maneuvers beyond "fly in a circle."
No, it's not a problem that someone doesn't know four other people. It is a problem when that person doesn't make the attempt. Certain roles are necessary in PvP, if only to counter other players who are filling said roles.
This game isn't the only one with this problem, and yes, it is a problem. Ever since my first experience with online play (cod mw) I've noticed that teams are always the ones with an advantage, and are most likely to win 9 times out of 10. This is do to not only getting to know each others strengths and weaknesses over time, but also having each player set up to fulfill a specific role. Teams are also usually using communication to report player positions and set up. The same is true for STO. Each member of a premade team is set up to best benefit the team, and they communicate who should do what, and who to target.
These advantages make for very uneven and unfair gameplay. Not only does this drive occasional pvp'ers entirely from playing pvp, but those who want to play but don't like teams, or simply don't have the ability to communicate with a team, get very frustrated and eventually just stop trying altogether. The solution to this is very simple for any game. Seperate arenas for teams and pug's. In 1 game I used to play, it was possible to enter into a mode that banned premade teams from entering an arena. It was solely random players for each side. This makes it more fun for those of us who aren't that big on team play and just want to see how well we fair against other players. Because let's face it, no one has a good time when they don't have a chance to win, and I doubt it stays very fun for those who demolish their opponent every time.
People that pug a lot need to take action. If you see that your going to be facing a team, leave. If people that are wanting to face pugs and not face teams were to start to do that it would send a message to both players and hopefully the developers as well.
People that pug a lot need to take action. If you see that your going to be facing a team, leave. If people that are wanting to face pugs and not face teams were to start to do that it would send a message to both players and hopefully the developers as well.
People that PUG a lot should accept the fact that they will always be at a disadvantage against organized teams and take the next logical step. Refusing to take that step is the fault of the player, not the game or the queues. Changing the game to cater to the LCD is just plain stupid, and is part of the reasone PvE is embarrassingly (to the devs, or should be anyway) easy. Which leads to players being completely unprepared when they finally decide to queue up for PvP.
People that PUG a lot should accept the fact that they will always be at a disadvantage against organized teams and take the next logical step. Refusing to take that step is the fault of the player, not the game or the queues. Changing the game to cater to the LCD is just plain stupid, and is part of the reasone PvE is embarrassingly (to the devs, or should be anyway) easy. Which leads to players being completely unprepared when they finally decide to queue up for PvP.
What a laugh. Catering to the LCD? I donn't think so. It's catering to those that wish to take part in pvp and do not expect to be stomped by a team that's there to do just that. If you enjoy zero challenge then going in with a team to stomp pugs is the way to go. Now that's catering to the LCD.
What a laugh. Catering to the LCD? I donn't think so. It's catering to those that wish to take part in pvp and do not expect to be stomped by a team that's there to do just that. If you enjoy zero challenge then going in with a team to stomp pugs is the way to go. Now that's catering to the LCD.
Stop, you're gonna bust my side... can't stop laughing.
I've been on both sides of this argument. I even started a thread on the subject back during S2, I think. PvP didn't become enjoyable until I learned the value of good wingmen. Simple, you want the ROFLstompings to stop, team up. If you refuse to take the step, that puts you in the LCD category. You are refusing to get better (and yes, at a certain point "getting better" involves teaming). This is not a single-player game, no matter how much you want it to be.
Stop, you're gonna bust my side... can't stop laughing.
I've been on both sides of this argument. I even started a thread on the subject back during S2, I think. PvP didn't become enjoyable until I learned the value of good wingmen. Simple, you want the ROFLstompings to stop, team up. If you refuse to take the step, that puts you in the LCD category. You are refusing to get better (and yes, at a certain point "getting better" involves teaming). This is not a single-player game, no matter how much you want it to be.
No I refuse to take part in the way you want me to play. Sorry but to me your the one that is lcd, asking others to just take a pug stomping because that's what you enjoy giving out. Well I for one will not be taking part in that. Like I said, see a team, leave the match.
There should be separate ques but till that happens people pugging need to stop feeding the jerks that enjoy handing pug stomping and the best way to do that is refuse to take part.
Comments
2 cents:
PVP in this game could be great. For somethin the devs don't pay any attention to, it's a solid system with great depth and versatility. The problem lies not with the system itself per say, but with the inability of the players to understand their role in team play.
Given, the PVE portion of the game does nothing to prepare you for anything like the arenas or cap splode or kerrat even. That does not take away from from the individual player's ability to survey their captain's abilities and the ships layed out before them to determine an optimal layout to maximize that players impact in a team environment.
When it comes down to it, every game I'm playing right now since my hiatus appears to take tremendous grind and practice to get the gear and experience to perform in PVP. Yet it seems only here players are so against playing their suited role in a team environment.
These other games have options to, well.... "Kirk it up" so to speak in STO lingo. But when it comes to pvp, I found 3 communities that have a drive to really dial in to their class and maximize their impact for the team. Communication, through voice chat or bind text calling, and regular reflection post match on what could have gone better. It was really a sight to see, this past week of vacation.
So, I don't think it's premades or PUGs. It's the player base.
Those who wish to dedicate the time are just not here in mass. And universal consoles and power creep just add to the frustration.
Have fun kill bad guys.
-horizon
Hey Horizon, glad you chimed in since you were mentioned in the thread.
Anyway, taking a little break myself, only logging in for rep grind and the occasional premade match or tournament.
So, a few of us are playing WarThunder, a nice WW2 themed air combat game. Check it out, you might like it. I got a certain nuclear physicist coming to play it too. lol. My handle is _sp_bmr1580 You should try it.
I live in one of those environments, nothing prevents me from:
A) Making important keybinds.
Unless you are doing top end premade v premade, tournament level stuff - you can be on TS, listen and participate with team chat keybinds and increase your performance by quite a lot.
A cheap set of headphones costs about 5 to 25 USD.
And what will you do when someone is mean to you in the real world?
Stay inside forever?
There are jackholes in this world.
Developing a thick skin and learning how to either avoid them, out-think them or let their stupidity bounce off you are lessons that everyone should learn and apply to their entire life - not just gaming.
Or "you" (the general you) can crawl into a hole, and hide from all the nasty people and let them win.
How do they win?
Well, they've pushed you so far into a corner you deprive yourself of meeting good people.
It can be difficult. Oh, no doubt I agree 99.9% about the listening part...but it's that 0.1% that's a real doozie there. You know how folks can be tools on the forums or in chat in the game...yeah...when you actually hear them, well - it's a lot harder just to shrug it off. There's a tendency to watch to find them...and instead of doing a /facepalm, introduce your palm to their face.
I've left guilds, corps, clans, etc, etc, etc...just not wanting to have to listen to some of the garbage that's being said.
Without diligent and rigorous controls in place - it's just not worth it...
...random good people in a video game aren't worth the garbage that's out there.
Good points horizon. Now in these three games, I assume the gear grind to be PvE grind? And are you rewarded for playing to your classes strength during that grind? I think the resistance of the player-base to min-max their class, is simple how badly sci and eng are suited for STO PvE compared to Tacs. Who needs a full heal boat in ISE, or CC healer? Who needs SNB?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
There's a difference between online games and the real world. In the real world if someone is abusive like that you can phone the police, you can get restraining orders and generally most people do not act like that at least due to peer pressure.
In an online "community" behaviour like that is very common against women, the elderly and even kids. There's a lot of abuse that normally people might not say and there's a difference between hearing it once and blocking to hearing it every single time you switch on the microphone or hop in team speak.
You can have as thick skin as you want but after a certain point you just decide FU and don't bother with that sort of thing outside of established friends.
It's not crawling into a hole, it's avoiding the torrent of moronic abuse. As VD says a lot of the time the random good people are just not worth it in a video game a lot of the time.
As for key binds etc, there's a thread in the PvP forums, why not post a key bind file as a sort of standard for them to use that has "attack X", heals please, science team please etc.That way it's easily accessible for new players. If I'm mistaken sorry but last I looked iI didn't see one.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
That applies to the internet in general and is no different in online multiplayer games. However, you have the option of muting or avoiding that stuff, so it's hardly surprising some people do.
Of course, there's lots of good and nice people out there, but let's not pretend STO's is the best playerbase out there, or even that the good outnumber the bad apples, looking at those communicating in-game, in the standard channels, whispers and pm's. Or maybe they do, but are the bad apples just a very vocal minority. I don't exclude the possibility. I most certainly have been yelled at more than engaged in friendly banter, if I ignore fleet chat, and I tend to know what I'm doing, at least. That's hardly encouraging for people without much experience with communication platforms.
I remember games that offered their own IRC servers. Back then, these issues existed and they haven't changed a bit. I can totally understand and sympathise with those that see voice comm as an extra option for annoyance or abuse that they can do without.
Myself, I often play in situations where people will occasionally talk to me and be either working or watching television. That means I will often be playing muted, and in situations where headphones would be kind of rude. So yes, I got some keybinding and just type the rest in chat. *shrug* Tends to work just fine, if you have a team that knows/understands.
That's your opinion on it, and that's something I'll have to respect.
Unlike yourself though, unfortunately I think too many players who feel like this also feel entitled to what they perceive as "fair" game-play. (meaning, I think you accept the reality of it)
Of course "fair" in this instance means "Please remove the advantage the other players have because they are willing to use TS/Vent."
That's definitely at the core of this issue of "premades" - because one of the biggest advantages is simple voice chat.
In online games you can use the ignore feature, leave the TS/Vent server or simply mute that person for you.
Do you think I don't know about people like this? My fleet has an open TS server, we take the good with the bad in order to host TD matches.
You can feel about it however you choose.
You're going off in a direction very different from what I originally posted.
Unfortunately you have people who are so introverted that the mere suggestion that they use something like TS sends them into a rage, much less being "told how to play".
There are people who spew the vitriol you are talking about at the mere mention of voice chat. People who denounced Boot Camp without even trying it, simply because they had an issue in the past or simply imagined one.
My main point in all of this is that players who are willing to concede a huge advantage in voice chat, should also be prepared to lose when facing players who use it.
My problem is when these "me first" attitude players, unwilling to find friends/fleet mates to team with, unwilling to adapt their build/playstyle to team dynamics, unwilling to utilize voice chat, unwilling to play for the team instead of themselves come to the forums and let their sense of entitlement demand that the players who do use those things be sent to a separate queue so the "me first" players can enjoy their own little walled garden.
If you concede all of the things that make teaming strong, be prepared to lose in a team vs. team environment like Arena.
If anything , what those players need is a 1v1 queue - then they can find out just how poorly designed 1v1 is in this game.
Yeah, it's definitely my choice to avoid TS like the plague - it doesn't mean other folks that do not have the issue with it should not have access to it. If they've got a cool bunch they run with or if they're more patient/tolerant than I am...awesome for them. Like I agreed with you, even just listening (and well, in my case being able to type too fast) can provide a huge advantage...and if folks can partake of it, I highly recommend they do.
I don't see it as an exploit...and well, it's just generally depressing that I have that low of an opinion of the majority of players out there; but that's not a reason that others shouldn't be able to use it.
Still, one of the things I find funny about non-voice comms is the number of folks that call a target with a keybind...rather than just having a keybind saying "my target".
There's an option in the Control tab of Options for "Assist target on attack" - and well, yeah - it's basically what it says.
For example:
You (F1)
Tom (F2)
Jerry (F3)
Bugs (F4)
Daffy (F5)
Say Jerry's calling targets. He drops out, "target Willard the Rat" in the team chat. How many folks are going to be trying to click around the map or tab around the map until they target Willard? How many are going to hit F3 and attack...in turn attacking Jerry's target?
Heck, even if they're out of range so it doesn't kick over for some reason - by selecting Jerry, they should be able to see Jerry's target and click it from there as they do move into range.
Then of course, well - one can get into the various Macro Keyboards/Mice - and the chat messages one can run from those keys without tying up their other binds.
No, they're not going to be as versatile as voice comms - but in the end, there's that entitlement thing you mention. Heh, but then again - I've admitted to having a low opinion of the majority of players out there...heh. But yeah, there is a lot of entitlement - not only in them having things, but in not having to do things. So many folks don't even want to try.
If somebody doesn't care enough to try, they shouldn't care enough to complain about it...
...but yeah, ahem, they tend to save up all their energy from not trying so they've got plenty to complain about things. :P
For all of the love of teamspeak, teamwork, and coordination, I personally still do my best flying and killing when I am pugging it listening to slayer blast in my ears, alone.
TS and all that are just a distraction in many cases. The only time you might "need" them are if youre going hardcore mode against another hardcore mode team doing the same thing.
I dunno, its just something ive noticed. When we took the coordination out the other night after a long day of PvPing in our premade group... I flew like I remember I used to be able to.
When I actually thought I was good. Before I realized I am still learning to be a team player (at least in this game, have done it in many other games).
I felt... strong.
Anyone else ever get this? Just going out and relying on just your own personal skills, knowing you have no healer to back you, no wingman to help you kill your target. Just you, some guns, and your wits.
Love that stuff man.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
That's how it is at first. Then you start getting used to speaking, teamwork, and you and your team becomes better for it.
I never talked at all, at first. My team leader had to force the rest of the guys to communicate. And now we can't shut up. :P But it has made us stronger as a result.
There's no substitute for being able to quickly communicate you or your teammates status, etc on the fly.
This...
...causes ol' VD to WTF?
While one of the reasons I do not like voice comms in general is because they can be too chatty, folks babbling about the most inane things without any comm discipline...
...yeah, there's no music. No in-game music. No music streaming. No music on the stereo.
It's not so much that it's a distraction, not a case of jumping up and dancing in front of the keyboard like a bad SNL skit...it's a case of potentially not hearing something.
You hear buffs - the folks in front of you do not show any SFX nor additional buffs...yeah, there's somebody behind you.
Music just kills situational awareness in a game like this. Course, it's sheer lunacy that a BOFF can't whisper in the captain's ear without decloaking a ship...but the ship itself can make sounds that can be heard up to 10km away without decloaking...but that's the way the game is.
PVE? Yep, Spotify or some YouTube channel is going to be in play.
PVP? I'm listening as much as I'm looking...
But, but, but...okay, I'll spare everybody the philosophical spiel about that zen-like trance of a team operating as a single organism. :P
Also, there should be nothing audible to warn your opponents that you're activating an ability. I'm on the fence about the little indicators next to your character status. There's no rational reason why they should know when I'm hitting TT or APO, and the only way they should know if I'm buffing a certain weapon is either by interpreting scans of my power routing, or watching me open fire.
Furthermore, giving someone the ability to talk into my ear is giving them the ability to give me orders, b***h at me for not playing the "role" they assign me, or in general just talk trash. Not everyone can put together a team of 5 friends all at once.
I know, but what im getting at is I still feel like I play my best game when I am not doing that.
Takes the pressure off I guess. Either letting the team down or the team letting me down? Usually the former, lolz.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Outside of an actual sound made by said ability, I agree with this. Little random "power up" sounds are silly. But that's the nature of the game...they're there...they are part of having some iota of situational awareness in the game. Music interferes with that...
Thanks, you've done a better job of proving my point than I ever could have done by myself. You sir, are a shining example of why the "I'm Captain Kirk" playerbase is the biggest problem with PvP.
Okay, what isn't a 1 trick pony? You're either doing your thing with weapons or space magic. Why is 1 pony worse than the other?
So it's a "problem" that someone doesn't know four other people who play this game? :rolleyes:
Heck, even using more than one weapon is more creative than hammering two or three GW buttons over and over. Then there's maneuvers beyond "fly in a circle."
No, it's not a problem that someone doesn't know four other people. It is a problem when that person doesn't make the attempt. Certain roles are necessary in PvP, if only to counter other players who are filling said roles.
These advantages make for very uneven and unfair gameplay. Not only does this drive occasional pvp'ers entirely from playing pvp, but those who want to play but don't like teams, or simply don't have the ability to communicate with a team, get very frustrated and eventually just stop trying altogether. The solution to this is very simple for any game. Seperate arenas for teams and pug's. In 1 game I used to play, it was possible to enter into a mode that banned premade teams from entering an arena. It was solely random players for each side. This makes it more fun for those of us who aren't that big on team play and just want to see how well we fair against other players. Because let's face it, no one has a good time when they don't have a chance to win, and I doubt it stays very fun for those who demolish their opponent every time.
Cryptic we really need two queues only for pvp
* Solo-random teams
And
* Group/team queues
Let the premades fight premades, let the pugs fight pugs.
People that PUG a lot should accept the fact that they will always be at a disadvantage against organized teams and take the next logical step. Refusing to take that step is the fault of the player, not the game or the queues. Changing the game to cater to the LCD is just plain stupid, and is part of the reasone PvE is embarrassingly (to the devs, or should be anyway) easy. Which leads to players being completely unprepared when they finally decide to queue up for PvP.
What a laugh. Catering to the LCD? I donn't think so. It's catering to those that wish to take part in pvp and do not expect to be stomped by a team that's there to do just that. If you enjoy zero challenge then going in with a team to stomp pugs is the way to go. Now that's catering to the LCD.
Stop, you're gonna bust my side... can't stop laughing.
I've been on both sides of this argument. I even started a thread on the subject back during S2, I think. PvP didn't become enjoyable until I learned the value of good wingmen. Simple, you want the ROFLstompings to stop, team up. If you refuse to take the step, that puts you in the LCD category. You are refusing to get better (and yes, at a certain point "getting better" involves teaming). This is not a single-player game, no matter how much you want it to be.
No I refuse to take part in the way you want me to play. Sorry but to me your the one that is lcd, asking others to just take a pug stomping because that's what you enjoy giving out. Well I for one will not be taking part in that. Like I said, see a team, leave the match.
There should be separate ques but till that happens people pugging need to stop feeding the jerks that enjoy handing pug stomping and the best way to do that is refuse to take part.
Anyone care to team up and queue? Different fleet tags a must. Ya know, cause multiple people with the same tag means its a premade ubergroup.
There is literally no chance one or more of those are new or anything...
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Since every Arena match is a team vs. a team, does that mean that you warp out of every match?
I think what they really mean is this...
"If I see anyone in the match that can beat me, I am going to quit and cry to the devs that the game is too hard and needs nerfed to my playstyle"
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus