AN honest question after reading so many comments from people saying no pvp update ever!
I never understood how people find it a challenge to destroy stupid npc's who do the same thing EVERY TIME and are so vocal against a pvp fix. As a mostly pvp'er myself i don't care when pve stuff gets added so why the hel should they care if pvp gets an update they don't even have to play it c'mon on you guys have had 8 seasons!!! can we have one?
I've never understood why someone would seek "challenge" in a computer game? What are you challenging? Your ability to manipulate a keyboard and mouse? There are certainly no intellectual challenges in this game. I (and many others) play computer games as escapism. It's to escape challenges. If I want a challenge I'll head out to the rifle/pistol range or play a round of golf or tennis. Life has plenty of challenges. Most people I know who play computer games do so for the same reason they read comic books or watch silly movies or watch the same sitcom episodes over and over. I read serious books when I want to be stimulated... I read a comic book when I want to let my intellect take a vacation and just be entertained. I play computer games like STO or CO for the same reason. If I have to work at it it quickly becomes boring or frustrating because any challenge it can offer is an empty challenge.
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Ill toss my 2 cents in. I am not a serious pvper but i do enjoy the odd match. To me killing npcs while fun doesnt give me the same rush as out performing another human. To track my prey and battle it out with all buffs and debuffs then flying through your enemy's warp core detonation. so i say bring it on!!!!!!!
To those who say 'it's because PvEers want all dev resources to be focused on PvE, because that's the majority of the game'. . .that's all very well and good. However, they're on track to have 8 seasons and an expansion worth of content added to 'em, along with whatever else is done between seasons. PvP has not received any significant improvements to its content since the beginning of the game. The little 'extra time' work that was done with the Ker'rat spawnpoints was the biggest thing PvP had seen in a long, long time. That's over the 8 seasons this game's had and the Legacy of Romulus expansion. The biggest thing that's been done with PvP is to make it even more annoying and convoluted by the addition of universal consoles, reputation systems, and who knows what else. That's a negative, not a positive.
It's time for PvP to get something. No matter how small the playerbase is compared to PvE, it does deserve something. Stop hogging all the dev resources, PvEers.
Considering that "revamp" is synonymous with "ruin" around here, as a PVPER, I say LEAVE OUR PVP ALONE. Nothing that has been "revamped" has ever been better off for it. Always worse. Remember when S7's idea of an "STF Revamp" was the rep system and a cost increase of infinity%?
To those who say 'it's because PvEers want all dev resources to be focused on PvE, because that's the majority of the game'. . .that's all very well and good. However, they're on track to have 8 seasons and an expansion worth of content added to 'em, along with whatever else is done between seasons. PvP has not received any significant improvements to its content since the beginning of the game. The little 'extra time' work that was done with the Ker'rat spawnpoints was the biggest thing PvP had seen in a long, long time. That's over the 8 seasons this game's had and the Legacy of Romulus expansion. The biggest thing that's been done with PvP is to make it even more annoying and convoluted by the addition of universal consoles, reputation systems, and who knows what else. That's a negative, not a positive.
It's time for PvP to get something. No matter how small the playerbase is compared to PvE, it does deserve something. Stop hogging all the dev resources, PvEers.
its quite obvious to me, given how the developer interaction "to save pvp...or not..." went and how they keep introducing "whacky consoles", abilities and new and better fleet stuff willy nilly now that they've pretty much given up on allusions towards "balanced" "skill based" "one on one" space PvP...instead preferring to fall back on furnishing the majority of their audience with lots of...interesting toys...
i think the best STO can hope for is some improvement in maps such as Ker'rat and possibly a new ground PVP roll out with maps akin to the Voth ground zone mixed with the MMO (sometimes "semi-pve") "Battleground" PvP as seen in WoW and the like.
i actually think this would be a good fit for STO even though i know those types of "Battlegrounds" may offend many self styled "hardcore pvpers" because they are not exactly conducive to the "one on one" and may indeed be "un-balance-able" since there's probably no way you can balance all encounters that take place within them... but imo the truth is a great many casual MMO players still greatly enjoy them as a collectively competitive pastime, even with "gear imbalance" and often "unfair matchups", and even in games like WoW which have the the more tightly balanced "Arenas" available alongside them....there are always people "in the BGs"...even at four in the morning...
if you (by which i mean PvPers) have any brains imo you'll combine that with rinksters idea to left players make PvP maps and the comments from Stahl recently about integrating foundry content more closely into the actual game and set to convincing him this is the way to go for PvP also (along with a couple core/example ground pvp game type maps to get the ball rolling).
i have no doubt that, given the tools, a foundry author could create a better Ker'rat than Ker'rat is atm...
ps also moar melee weapons plox :P there are some pretty glaring omissions
pss also possibly mechs...and vehicles...in fact i'm sure Stahl mentioned vehicles recently too...
^That's assuming Stahl actually manages to talk anybody into doing it. We in the Foundry have been waiting since LOR launched to get multiple game-breaking bugs fixed. (For example, a couple of interior maps got their editable areas shrunk, destroying missions that used the large amounts of black space for custom interiors.) All we've actually gotten since then is a fix to preview mode loading times (which was very good) and Voth mobs (no use to me personally ATM).
Before they go and (given their track record) break everything about the Foundry that actually works while trying to add PVP ability, they need to fix bugs, add more assets so we don't have to (for example) kitbash to simulate canonical uniforms (this is the closest I could get to Bajoran Militia), and make the editor more user-friendly (I don't even know where to start with this one). I would also love it if they would kill all farm missions with fire, or at least make it so that they're the ones you have to manually put in search terms for.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
well he was talking recently about a much closer in game tie in with work coming out of the foundry (i think it was in relation to "exploration" content). if that happens you'd get a good bit focus on the foundrys functionality one would think.
I suspect many fear losing the majority status, that they're so found of flaunting. In that sense, it's simple tribalistic behavior. Irrational and hostile.
It's said that civilizations can be judged by their treatment of minorities.
AN honest question after reading so many comments from people saying no pvp update ever!
Most PVEers don't fear a PVP revamp. A lot of us just don't think Cryptic can do it. They haven't done much of anything with PVP in ages. It might happen, it might not. Who knows anymore.
I never understood how people find it a challenge to destroy stupid npc's who do the same thing EVERY TIME and are so vocal against a pvp fix.
To be fair, PVE challenge in MMOs comes from much older games. This game and all cryptic games have never had challenging PVE. Champions doesn't. Neverwinter doesn't (though it tries, but nope, doesn't even come close to PVE challenge), and COH never did.
But this game was never really about challenge. It's about fun.
And so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say folks who are upset about change (ANY change) are basically worried about Cryptic making the game less fun. So it's a very blanket concern you probably see. Based on pure speculation. But that's usually how these things go.
As a mostly pvp'er myself i don't care when pve stuff gets added
I'd wager that's not true. How much PVE gear are you rocking on your PVP toon? Granted, this game hasn't had a competitive PVP gear path since MK XI debuted, but, still ...
so why the hel should they care if pvp gets an update they don't even have to play it
That's also somewhat short sighted. Just like PVPers currently have to PVE to get gear, PVEers generally "fear" changes being made to their side of the game for PVP balance. Granted I contend that the dev team hasn't made much of any changes for PVP balance in YEARS, but that's because the dev team hasn't had any PVP focus in those years. Still, the fear is there.
c'mon on you guys have had 8 seasons!!! can we have one?
Not entirely true. The first two seasons had PVP updates as part of them. And really, the lack of PVP development since then rests squarely on the shoulders of the dev team.
A PVP update is scary because it's so up in the air. You don't know WHAT Cryptic will do with it. All you know for sure is whatever it is will be frustrating, grindy and completely not fun, like all of their other changes. So the fears are probably well founded.
In fact, going on cryptic development track record, you PVP folks should be far more afraid than the PVE folks. PVEers are already used to annoying and boring rep grinds, and broken content and stuff that doesn't work and stuff that gets changed willy nilly.
PVPers though they've had no attention in years, might not be ready for what it is the Cryptic Development team actually brings to the table. Change? Sure. Bugs? Definitely! Grinds? PWE is ALLLLLLLL about grinds.
To quote Gina Davis from the Fly: "Be afraid. Be very afraid."
The only kind of PvP revamp that could possibly scare PvE players is the kind that introduces non-consensual PvP. You know, the kind where you're in sector space travelling to your next mission location and suddenly: BAM! A kdf player has pulled you into a combat zone and you can't warp out until the two of you have blown each other up a few times or whatever.
Lame garbage like that doesn't work in STO. It will drive an enormous number of players away and Cryptic will lose a huge chunk of people who love to buy Zen.
I personally don't want to be harassed and forced to fight someone during my gameplay. I played Eve for six years and have had enough of that. In Eve, CCP had the good sense to implement it from the beginning and players learn from the start that there are always PvP consequences to playing. Eve is for players who want a challenge and enjoy watching their backs 24/7 and resigning themselves to being legally griefed forever within the game rules.
Non-consensual PvP inevitably results in the GIFT writ large in the MMO world.
I just don't do PVP and I don't like it. I don't wanna have two toons just to be equipped for PVE and PVP. I prefer to just have one toon and since PVE is a lot more entertaining and rewarding, I will stick with PVE. It would be more interesting to do PVP if you'd get the gear from your enemy if defeated.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Most of what WE want, can be summed up in a few simple things:
And there's no reason for the PvE community to be remotely upset if you get all those things. It might even earn the PvP community a few converts. I hope it happens for you.
I actually like PvP play, I flat refuse to engage in it though. Why? Because a small core of players in ALL MMOs are always the same ones attracted to PvP, these same players are the ones that think that "trash talking" is a part of the fun, and that trolling is fun, oh and that blowing up somebodies pixels with their pixels makes them somehow superior. Now I know full well this is always a minority group, but minority or not I want nothing to do with them.
The same attitudes killed one of my favourite, PvP oriented, MMOs completely. Their response was to blame the death of the game on "noobs ruining our game with their noobishness...".
Personally, I'd rather PvP and PvE players didn't even share servers any more. That way PvPers could have all of the nerfs they insist are neccessary to have good PvP without ruining the enjoyment of those who like me would rather play co-operatively with other players, rather than aggressively competitively.
As to fearing a PvP revamp, not particularly no, I couldn't care less so long as it doesn't take away dev time from the content that I personally enjoy. If you want altruism, you wont find it amongst MMO players.
I can't stand the PvP Community, no... that's to easy on them... I hate them, this completely antagonistic, non-empathic, overly competetive behaviour is simply too much.
And that is true for every single game with competetive Multiplayer.
So why should I want them to take away precious Development Time and Resources?
Unless the PvP Community changes for the better they should be left in the dark corner...
I can't stand the PvP Community, no... that's to easy on them... I hate them, this completely antagonistic, non-empathic, overly competetive behaviour is simply too much.
And that is true for every single game with competetive Multiplayer.
So why should I want them to take away precious Development Time and Resources?
Unless the PvP Community changes for the better they should be left in the dark corner...
heh? as far as I've seen. admittedly which isn't much it is that bad.
you get killed a lot don't you
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
heh? as far as I've seen. admittedly which isn't much it is that bad.
you get killed a lot don't you
Sounds like he was describing the average PvP community. In better language than I wouldve used too. Also fenr00k has a valid point on the average elitist PvP comunity.
If you think many PvP players do not want PvE players to be forced into PvP then you are simply deluded. There has been many posts in these forums and many ingame where PvP players want more PvP zones that PvE players have to enter to do PvE. It is the nature of many of them to want easy targets. that is why there is base TRIBBLE, team killing, and ganking in any PvP much less mixed servers. If you think there wouldnt be a group parked at spawn in a PvP/PvE mixed zone cloaked waiting for PvE players to spawn on the way to a mission location just ready to gank them over and over again in this game then you are incredibly naive. Plenty of people asking for open mixed zones just so they can gank PvE players and this game could be perfect for them with cloaking devices and decloak buffs to alpha strike.
PvP and PvE should NEVER mix. and I enjoy both PvP and PvE just as long as it is not mixed and pvP is balanced where the only winning factor is the ability to aim. Sadly thats not an MMO where the game aims and skill is only what to use and when.
Anywho i prefer COOP play rather than PvP. Sadly STO doesnt have good COOP.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
PvP was never STO's strong point, never will be. simple fact is as long as people ask for other stuff pvp will never be accepted. however if you want pvp, there are a few other games on display and a future game called 'star citizen', which is like a spin off from freelancer but more advanced with many star systems and such. it could ruin EvE if it were released and the designers of star citizen hit all the sweet spots people want.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
hmmm, a pvp revamp would be great.
It could actually end up balancing the game, the powers, the classes, and the ships.
In turn, it would actually improve pve IF that happened.
Well, to really improve pve, you'd also have to create npcs that can actually do something!
As for pve, there is normal, advanced, and elite... maybe a "hard" mode should be added.
The one pvp zone that should be considered would be the Neutral Zone, obviously.
However, to make it fair. Make it a flag system so you don't have to pvp at all.
But hey, wasn't the neutral zone originally a dangerous place to be!?
If no flag, then restrict it to within a certain level amount.
for pvp zones/queues, I'd think a ranking system would be good since there have been
numerous people that have tried it, and ended up not liking it because nothing what
so ever could be accomplished. If a ranking system did exist, then they might actually
start to enjoy the scary pvp and play more of it!
even a solo and teamed queue would help.
Suppose I could ramble some more... eh... oh well.
Hopefully, something is done. yah, wishful thinking it feels like.
The only way I can see PVP working in this game is for it to have its own rep system with it's own list of ships and consoles and weapons. Everone starts out with the same gear and a Escourt, Cruiser, or Sci ship.
Depending on the ship you choose you get basic boff skills and no consoles, As you progress up the ranks you get more ships and gear and better weapons.
When you get to say level 2 you are pitted vs other level 2 players and so on. This way everyone is on the same level as far as gear and ships.
The only thing that can differ is how you load out your ship and skill and teamwork.
There would need to be no Uni consoles no 3 piece set bonuses, no Rep bonuses. My idea of a PVP system would be completly different than your PVE toon.
One idea would use the holodecks at the Acadmey. You are doing F vs F wargames and all your gear and ships is virtual and seperate from your PVE stuff. For F vs K you could use Dronza station or DS9. A place where there are no weapons allowed already but has access to both factions and has holodecks and gambling. You fight for latinum and can use that to purchase better virtual gear to use in the holographic combat.
This virtual PVP system would allow a new system with no PVE cheese or power creep. When you get to the final tier you unlock 10 console Fleet ships, (no lockbox or alien ships) and XII gear. I know some would hate this but it would make it so only good teams with good communication would prevail. How to build a ship to match your role in the team and how to play that role would be a huge factor. This would mean no Kirks and players that dont play well with others would be at a disadvantage.
I am a PvE player, though I did dabble in PvP (both ground and space) during the early days of the game. Here's the problem with the whole premise of tacking on a PvP aspect to a PvE game - it usually doesn't work. There are some glaring issues with PvP that we all know about, and if the devs can find some way of fixing most of them without disrupting the PvE gameplay, then I am all for it.
If you are going to revamp PvP, then it has to be meaningful. Look to Pirates of the Burning Sea as an example of what to do and not do for realm v realm PvP. There also needs to be at least a sector block dedicated to open PvP. Any NPC missions inside the red zone would be for promotion of your RvR objectives, and could tie into the starbase system. Star systems in the red would be contested, a la the port battles of POTBS.
To the devs I say this. If you do assign assets to revamp PvP (a small population in a small population game) and it not only works, but attracts new players both to the game AND to PvP, then you have no excuse not to use that same reasoning to add content to the KDF faction.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
"Fear"? Wrong word, OP. "Apathy" is much more appropriate.
This, with major emphasis. I don't "fear" a PvP revamp, but rather feel it would be a waste of resources that could be put to use adding something more than 20% of the players would use, and otherwise couldn't care any less about it if I tried.
This, with major emphasis. I don't "fear" a PvP revamp, but rather feel it would be a waste of resources that could be put to use adding something more than 20% of the players would use, and otherwise couldn't care any less about it if I tried.
I might add a hint of dread to my response, but otherwise go with yours.
PVP emphasis tends to lead to extreme one-true-wayism, the likes of which PVE never sees. That's the direct reason why PVP is such a long queue to begin with: it's not fun to be obliterated by apparently indestructible people with perfect power rotations that zip off without noticable damage, and its especially not fun when they have to use /zone chat to brag and insult like Call of Duty cretins, either.
I speak as a former PVPer that got a KDF Gorn all the way to Brigadier a little after launch, with no content but PVP to get him up there (and the odd "shoot an npc in a random space zone" while waiting for gaps in queue). It was actually fun before super min maxing took over.
hmmm, a pvp revamp would be great.
It could actually end up balancing the game, the powers, the classes, and the ships.
In turn, it would actually improve pve IF that happened.
The clincher being "could". Having been a "career" PvPer since UO (ex-PvPer these days because structured arena-based PvP is boring, and beyond a couple of games that's all that's on offer now), I've got to say that attempts not only to balance, but also add fun new items and abilities that are balanced vs. already available items and abilities, have always been an absolute nightmare in PvP-centric games, let alone PvE-centric ones that offer PvP as a side-line. It all comes to what individual players deem acceptable, underpowered, or over the top - and that varies widely based on one's vested interest in either maintaining the status quo or trying to force a change that will be of benefit to that person.
If you've ever played SB or DFO, you'll know from experience just how much moaning went on over just about anything and everything - I wouldn't wish that sort of constantly volatile atmosphere on any dev team because you're damned whatever you try to do.
Cryptic pays lip service to PvP to keep part of the niche community hanging on, but unless they've got money to burn, they'll never waste the amount of resources that would be required to properly revamp PvP into something ostensibly palatable to that small minority - which in itself would be a grueling task, since getting a consensus out of PvPers is often like trying to get Sarah Palin to say something intelligent.
The clincher being "could". Having been a "career" PvPer since UO (ex-PvPer these days because structured arena-based PvP is boring, and beyond a couple of games that's all that's on offer now), I've got to say that attempts not only to balance, but also add fun new items and abilities that are balanced vs. already available items and abilities, have always been an absolute nightmare in PvP-centric games, let alone PvE-centric ones that offer PvP as a side-line. It all comes to what individual players deem acceptable, underpowered, or over the top - and that varies widely based on one's vested interest in either maintaining the status quo or trying to force a change that will be of benefit to that person.
If you've every played SB or DFO, you'll know from experience just how much moaning went on over just about anything and everything - I wouldn't wish that sort of constantly volatile atmosphere on any dev team because you're damned whatever you try to do.
Cryptic pays lip service to PvP to keep part of the niche community hanging on, but unless they've got money to burn, they'll never waste the amount of resources that would be required to properly revamp PvP into something ostensibly palatable to that small minority - which in itself would be a grueling task, since getting a consensus out of PvPers is often like trying to get Sarah Palin to say something intelligent.
Even high-and-mighty Blizzard developers admitted publicly that it was a mistake to emphasise the "e-sport" arena stuff and use it to force nerfs and gameplay changes on non-pvpers.
Comments
Couldnt be more to the point.
Case in point
I've never understood why someone would seek "challenge" in a computer game? What are you challenging? Your ability to manipulate a keyboard and mouse? There are certainly no intellectual challenges in this game. I (and many others) play computer games as escapism. It's to escape challenges. If I want a challenge I'll head out to the rifle/pistol range or play a round of golf or tennis. Life has plenty of challenges. Most people I know who play computer games do so for the same reason they read comic books or watch silly movies or watch the same sitcom episodes over and over. I read serious books when I want to be stimulated... I read a comic book when I want to let my intellect take a vacation and just be entertained. I play computer games like STO or CO for the same reason. If I have to work at it it quickly becomes boring or frustrating because any challenge it can offer is an empty challenge.
It's time for PvP to get something. No matter how small the playerbase is compared to PvE, it does deserve something. Stop hogging all the dev resources, PvEers.
PvP is FINE. Leave our PvP alone.
R.I.P
i think the best STO can hope for is some improvement in maps such as Ker'rat and possibly a new ground PVP roll out with maps akin to the Voth ground zone mixed with the MMO (sometimes "semi-pve") "Battleground" PvP as seen in WoW and the like.
i actually think this would be a good fit for STO even though i know those types of "Battlegrounds" may offend many self styled "hardcore pvpers" because they are not exactly conducive to the "one on one" and may indeed be "un-balance-able" since there's probably no way you can balance all encounters that take place within them... but imo the truth is a great many casual MMO players still greatly enjoy them as a collectively competitive pastime, even with "gear imbalance" and often "unfair matchups", and even in games like WoW which have the the more tightly balanced "Arenas" available alongside them....there are always people "in the BGs"...even at four in the morning...
if you (by which i mean PvPers) have any brains imo you'll combine that with rinksters idea to left players make PvP maps and the comments from Stahl recently about integrating foundry content more closely into the actual game and set to convincing him this is the way to go for PvP also (along with a couple core/example ground pvp game type maps to get the ball rolling).
i have no doubt that, given the tools, a foundry author could create a better Ker'rat than Ker'rat is atm...
ps also moar melee weapons plox :P there are some pretty glaring omissions
pss also possibly mechs...and vehicles...in fact i'm sure Stahl mentioned vehicles recently too...
Before they go and (given their track record) break everything about the Foundry that actually works while trying to add PVP ability, they need to fix bugs, add more assets so we don't have to (for example) kitbash to simulate canonical uniforms (this is the closest I could get to Bajoran Militia), and make the editor more user-friendly (I don't even know where to start with this one). I would also love it if they would kill all farm missions with fire, or at least make it so that they're the ones you have to manually put in search terms for.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I suspect many fear losing the majority status, that they're so found of flaunting. In that sense, it's simple tribalistic behavior. Irrational and hostile.
It's said that civilizations can be judged by their treatment of minorities.
Most PVEers don't fear a PVP revamp. A lot of us just don't think Cryptic can do it. They haven't done much of anything with PVP in ages. It might happen, it might not. Who knows anymore.
To be fair, PVE challenge in MMOs comes from much older games. This game and all cryptic games have never had challenging PVE. Champions doesn't. Neverwinter doesn't (though it tries, but nope, doesn't even come close to PVE challenge), and COH never did.
But this game was never really about challenge. It's about fun.
And so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say folks who are upset about change (ANY change) are basically worried about Cryptic making the game less fun. So it's a very blanket concern you probably see. Based on pure speculation. But that's usually how these things go.
I'd wager that's not true. How much PVE gear are you rocking on your PVP toon? Granted, this game hasn't had a competitive PVP gear path since MK XI debuted, but, still ...
That's also somewhat short sighted. Just like PVPers currently have to PVE to get gear, PVEers generally "fear" changes being made to their side of the game for PVP balance. Granted I contend that the dev team hasn't made much of any changes for PVP balance in YEARS, but that's because the dev team hasn't had any PVP focus in those years. Still, the fear is there.
Not entirely true. The first two seasons had PVP updates as part of them. And really, the lack of PVP development since then rests squarely on the shoulders of the dev team.
A PVP update is scary because it's so up in the air. You don't know WHAT Cryptic will do with it. All you know for sure is whatever it is will be frustrating, grindy and completely not fun, like all of their other changes. So the fears are probably well founded.
In fact, going on cryptic development track record, you PVP folks should be far more afraid than the PVE folks. PVEers are already used to annoying and boring rep grinds, and broken content and stuff that doesn't work and stuff that gets changed willy nilly.
PVPers though they've had no attention in years, might not be ready for what it is the Cryptic Development team actually brings to the table. Change? Sure. Bugs? Definitely! Grinds? PWE is ALLLLLLLL about grinds.
To quote Gina Davis from the Fly: "Be afraid. Be very afraid."
Lame garbage like that doesn't work in STO. It will drive an enormous number of players away and Cryptic will lose a huge chunk of people who love to buy Zen.
I personally don't want to be harassed and forced to fight someone during my gameplay. I played Eve for six years and have had enough of that. In Eve, CCP had the good sense to implement it from the beginning and players learn from the start that there are always PvP consequences to playing. Eve is for players who want a challenge and enjoy watching their backs 24/7 and resigning themselves to being legally griefed forever within the game rules.
Non-consensual PvP inevitably results in the GIFT writ large in the MMO world.
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
And there's no reason for the PvE community to be remotely upset if you get all those things. It might even earn the PvP community a few converts. I hope it happens for you.
The same attitudes killed one of my favourite, PvP oriented, MMOs completely. Their response was to blame the death of the game on "noobs ruining our game with their noobishness...".
Personally, I'd rather PvP and PvE players didn't even share servers any more. That way PvPers could have all of the nerfs they insist are neccessary to have good PvP without ruining the enjoyment of those who like me would rather play co-operatively with other players, rather than aggressively competitively.
As to fearing a PvP revamp, not particularly no, I couldn't care less so long as it doesn't take away dev time from the content that I personally enjoy. If you want altruism, you wont find it amongst MMO players.
It's not hate on the System...
I can't stand the PvP Community, no... that's to easy on them... I hate them, this completely antagonistic, non-empathic, overly competetive behaviour is simply too much.
And that is true for every single game with competetive Multiplayer.
So why should I want them to take away precious Development Time and Resources?
Unless the PvP Community changes for the better they should be left in the dark corner...
heh? as far as I've seen. admittedly which isn't much it is that bad.
you get killed a lot don't you
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Sounds like he was describing the average PvP community. In better language than I wouldve used too. Also fenr00k has a valid point on the average elitist PvP comunity.
@patrickngo,
If you think many PvP players do not want PvE players to be forced into PvP then you are simply deluded. There has been many posts in these forums and many ingame where PvP players want more PvP zones that PvE players have to enter to do PvE. It is the nature of many of them to want easy targets. that is why there is base TRIBBLE, team killing, and ganking in any PvP much less mixed servers. If you think there wouldnt be a group parked at spawn in a PvP/PvE mixed zone cloaked waiting for PvE players to spawn on the way to a mission location just ready to gank them over and over again in this game then you are incredibly naive. Plenty of people asking for open mixed zones just so they can gank PvE players and this game could be perfect for them with cloaking devices and decloak buffs to alpha strike.
PvP and PvE should NEVER mix. and I enjoy both PvP and PvE just as long as it is not mixed and pvP is balanced where the only winning factor is the ability to aim. Sadly thats not an MMO where the game aims and skill is only what to use and when.
Anywho i prefer COOP play rather than PvP. Sadly STO doesnt have good COOP.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Hey! I don't think you appreciate the pulse-pounding thrills of pressing your keybinds more quickly than someone else.
The only way to make good PvP is to make a PvP game.
It could actually end up balancing the game, the powers, the classes, and the ships.
In turn, it would actually improve pve IF that happened.
Well, to really improve pve, you'd also have to create npcs that can actually do something!
As for pve, there is normal, advanced, and elite... maybe a "hard" mode should be added.
The one pvp zone that should be considered would be the Neutral Zone, obviously.
However, to make it fair. Make it a flag system so you don't have to pvp at all.
But hey, wasn't the neutral zone originally a dangerous place to be!?
If no flag, then restrict it to within a certain level amount.
for pvp zones/queues, I'd think a ranking system would be good since there have been
numerous people that have tried it, and ended up not liking it because nothing what
so ever could be accomplished. If a ranking system did exist, then they might actually
start to enjoy the scary pvp and play more of it!
even a solo and teamed queue would help.
Suppose I could ramble some more... eh... oh well.
Hopefully, something is done. yah, wishful thinking it feels like.
Depending on the ship you choose you get basic boff skills and no consoles, As you progress up the ranks you get more ships and gear and better weapons.
When you get to say level 2 you are pitted vs other level 2 players and so on. This way everyone is on the same level as far as gear and ships.
The only thing that can differ is how you load out your ship and skill and teamwork.
There would need to be no Uni consoles no 3 piece set bonuses, no Rep bonuses. My idea of a PVP system would be completly different than your PVE toon.
One idea would use the holodecks at the Acadmey. You are doing F vs F wargames and all your gear and ships is virtual and seperate from your PVE stuff. For F vs K you could use Dronza station or DS9. A place where there are no weapons allowed already but has access to both factions and has holodecks and gambling. You fight for latinum and can use that to purchase better virtual gear to use in the holographic combat.
This virtual PVP system would allow a new system with no PVE cheese or power creep. When you get to the final tier you unlock 10 console Fleet ships, (no lockbox or alien ships) and XII gear. I know some would hate this but it would make it so only good teams with good communication would prevail. How to build a ship to match your role in the team and how to play that role would be a huge factor. This would mean no Kirks and players that dont play well with others would be at a disadvantage.
If you are going to revamp PvP, then it has to be meaningful. Look to Pirates of the Burning Sea as an example of what to do and not do for realm v realm PvP. There also needs to be at least a sector block dedicated to open PvP. Any NPC missions inside the red zone would be for promotion of your RvR objectives, and could tie into the starbase system. Star systems in the red would be contested, a la the port battles of POTBS.
To the devs I say this. If you do assign assets to revamp PvP (a small population in a small population game) and it not only works, but attracts new players both to the game AND to PvP, then you have no excuse not to use that same reasoning to add content to the KDF faction.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
This sums up my feelings on the matter perfectly.
This, with major emphasis. I don't "fear" a PvP revamp, but rather feel it would be a waste of resources that could be put to use adding something more than 20% of the players would use, and otherwise couldn't care any less about it if I tried.
I might add a hint of dread to my response, but otherwise go with yours.
PVP emphasis tends to lead to extreme one-true-wayism, the likes of which PVE never sees. That's the direct reason why PVP is such a long queue to begin with: it's not fun to be obliterated by apparently indestructible people with perfect power rotations that zip off without noticable damage, and its especially not fun when they have to use /zone chat to brag and insult like Call of Duty cretins, either.
I speak as a former PVPer that got a KDF Gorn all the way to Brigadier a little after launch, with no content but PVP to get him up there (and the odd "shoot an npc in a random space zone" while waiting for gaps in queue). It was actually fun before super min maxing took over.
The clincher being "could". Having been a "career" PvPer since UO (ex-PvPer these days because structured arena-based PvP is boring, and beyond a couple of games that's all that's on offer now), I've got to say that attempts not only to balance, but also add fun new items and abilities that are balanced vs. already available items and abilities, have always been an absolute nightmare in PvP-centric games, let alone PvE-centric ones that offer PvP as a side-line. It all comes to what individual players deem acceptable, underpowered, or over the top - and that varies widely based on one's vested interest in either maintaining the status quo or trying to force a change that will be of benefit to that person.
If you've ever played SB or DFO, you'll know from experience just how much moaning went on over just about anything and everything - I wouldn't wish that sort of constantly volatile atmosphere on any dev team because you're damned whatever you try to do.
Cryptic pays lip service to PvP to keep part of the niche community hanging on, but unless they've got money to burn, they'll never waste the amount of resources that would be required to properly revamp PvP into something ostensibly palatable to that small minority - which in itself would be a grueling task, since getting a consensus out of PvPers is often like trying to get Sarah Palin to say something intelligent.