If you think many PvP players do not want PvE players to be forced into PvP then you are simply deluded. There has been many posts in these forums and many ingame where PvP players want more PvP zones that PvE players have to enter to do PvE.
Point those posts out. Better yet, give us the ratio of those posts to the number of posts in the forum. Cite anything that supports this generalization of the PvP mindset.
I think very few posts have been made that suggest PvP zones that a PvE player would have to enter. There have been many suggestions for PvP zones that a PvE player might want to enter (for a slightly better loot drop or a little more exp), but that's not quite the same thing, is it?
The selfishness of some of the antiPvP posts in these forums boggles the mind.
Point those posts out. Better yet, give us the ratio of those posts to the number of posts in the forum. Cite anything that supports this generalization of the PvP mindset.
I think very few posts have been made that suggest PvP zones that a PvE player would have to enter. There have been many suggestions for PvP zones that a PvE player might want to enter (for a slightly better loot drop or a little more exp), but that's not quite the same thing, is it?
The selfishness of some of the antiPvP posts in these forums boggles the mind.
Deconstructionism at its basest. I take it you are ready to "prove" your own claims, such as "antiPVP posters are selfish". Presumptively you only have the best in mind for the lowly PVEers you look down upon? Or will the benefits of catering to your elite minority trickle down upon us?
Deconstructionism at its basest. I take it you are ready to "prove" your own claims, such as "antiPVP posters are selfish".
Sure, right after my preceding request for support is addressed. Mine won't be hard to construct, as I have enough in this thread to make the point.
eta: btw, if you use quotations marks when referring to something I've posted, they should be wrapped around something I've actually posted, not your chosen rephrasing. /eta
Presumptively you only have the best in mind for the lowly PVEers you look down upon? Or will the benefits of catering to your elite minority trickle down upon us?
You can try to characterize it that way if, you wish, but there was no elitism in my post... at least as far as PvP is concerned (I'm not very good at it).
Sure, right after my preceding request for support is addressed. Mine won't be hard to construct, as I have enough in this thread to make the point.
You can try to characterize it that way if, you wish, but there was no elitism in my post... at least as far as PvP is concerned (I'm not very good at it).
And remember, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
Enough what? Arrogance, condescension, and strawman assumptions of what those dirty unwashed PVE peasants are "afraid" of, as the OP's title suggests?
The part at the end was pointless. Good for you, you can borrow quotes. So can 99% of Reddit.
I think very few posts have been made that suggest PvP zones that a PvE player would have to enter. There have been many suggestions for PvP zones that a PvE player might want to enter (for a slightly better loot drop or a little more exp), but that's not quite the same thing, is it?
It ends up being tantamount to the same thing, since it equates to PvE players entering PvP zones because that's where the best loot and/or exp comes from, and henceforth being wailed on by a bunch of e-peenflation addicts who, as you so eloquently demonstrate with this post:
You seem to be getting upset and hostile, so I'm gonna stop, because I'm starting to feel bullied..
just love giving it, but simply can't take it.
That's what the "let's encourage PvE players to want to enter PvP zones" mantra tends to come down to: PvPers wanting incentives to draw more soft targets into PvP-enabled zones, so it's less of a challenge for them to inflate their egos.
It ends up being tantamount to the same thing, since it equates to PvE players entering PvP zones because that's where the best loot and/or exp comes from, and henceforth being wailed on by a bunch of e-peenflation addicts who, as you so eloquently demonstrate with this post:
just love giving it, but simply can't take it.
Actually, just trying to avoid my third warning in these forums.
That's what the "let's encourage PvE players to want to enter PvP zones" mantra tends to come down to: PvPers wanting incentives to draw more soft targets into PvP-enabled zones, so it's less of a challenge for them to inflate their egos.
There are 10 types of people in the world; those that get it and those that don't.
There are 10 types of people in the world; those that get it and those that don't.
Please tell me why you as a PvPer would want to see PvP zones with larger numbers of typically less-skilled (in the PvP sense) players roaming around, beyond wanting more people to bumrush targets with, and/or more targets period, or being bored facing the same small number of people all the time.
Face it, advocating getting more PvE players into PvP zones by offering a carrot on a stick, serves a selfish purpose. You want them to give PvP a boost, because the PvP community is so small that no matter what the dev team does, if it doesn't involve getting more players involved - by hook or by crook - it'll remain nothing more than a damp squib.
Would people please stop assuming the worst about people who play both PvP and/or PvE?
Not to mention it's hardly right to split people into camps like this.
It can hardly be that all PvEers are so completely against PvP getting a little something. I mean, just one new map a season, and a balancing algorithm for the queues. Hardly much at all, eh? Something like that would earn plenty of goodwill, and hardly costs much time. In fact, one PvPer came up with a sorting algorithm in a matter of 1-2 weeks! Is that really too much to ask? Sure, there may be some selfish posts. But why assume that the entire community is out to get you when they probably aren't? In fact, many of them have said it's just apathy. It's not fear or hate.
And it can't be that all PvPers just want PvEvP zones just for the sake of having soft targets. In fact, a good number of us hate soft targets - whether they are on your team, or on the other side. They are, to put it simply, unfun to fight against. Same way a good chess player finds it unfun to play against a total beginner. It serves no challenge, and it just makes us feel guilty. PvPers have a Klingon mindset - to test their strength against another's is the objective. So, no, hardly a desire for soft targets. I'd much rather have someone capable of fighting back and having me on the ropes than someone who doesn't do much.
And why do we want more people then? Variety! Having more people to play with, coming up with new builds and new strategies, and all sorts of different things. The game is more fun with more teams and more players. If it's more fun, even for the new players.....well, more fun is good, right? With more people, balancing is easier, more activity, no need to waste time in queues, better, more fun PvP for both those already playing and those coming in.
Come on now, splitting off into tribes like this isn't going to do anything. Thread question's already answered, anyways. Most posters in this thread, it seems, don't fear a revamp, they're just apathetic about it, and would prefer that significant resources not be spent on something irrelevant to them.
AN honest question after reading so many comments from people saying no pvp update ever!
I never understood how people find it a challenge to destroy stupid npc's who do the same thing EVERY TIME and are so vocal against a pvp fix. As a mostly pvp'er myself i don't care when pve stuff gets added so why the hel should they care if pvp gets an update they don't even have to play it c'mon on you guys have had 8 seasons!!! can we have one?
I don't mind pvp...as boring as it is.
I think Ker'rat is much better.
More PvPvE is the way to go.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
And it can't be that all PvPers just want PvEvP zones just for the sake of having soft targets. In fact, a good number of us hate soft targets - whether they are on your team, or on the other side. They are, to put it simply, unfun to fight against. Same way a good chess player finds it unfun to play against a total beginner. It serves no challenge, and it just makes us feel guilty. PvPers have a Klingon mindset - to test their strength against another's is the objective. So, no, hardly a desire for soft targets. I'd much rather have someone capable of fighting back and having me on the ropes than someone who doesn't do much.
And why do we want more people then? Variety! Having more people to play with, coming up with new builds and new strategies, and all sorts of different things. The game is more fun with more teams and more players. If it's more fun, even for the new players.....well, more fun is good, right? With more people, balancing is easier, more activity, no need to waste time in queues, better, more fun PvP for both those already playing and those coming in.
Come on now, splitting off into tribes like this isn't going to do anything. Thread question's already answered, anyways. Most posters in this thread, it seems, don't fear a revamp, they're just apathetic about it, and would prefer that significant resources not be spent on something irrelevant to them.
It never works out that way, though. Hell, back when DFO released and I was still part of a PvP gaming guild, in spite of it being a PvP-centric MMO, because it offered a variety of PvE-oriented gameplay outlets - crafting, a large variety of tough mobs with decent(ish) AI to fight, village building, etc - two camps rapidly developed and waged forum war against each other. That was a very clear-cut case of PvE-focused players coming into a touted PvP-centric game, and demanding the game change to cater to them. They too dressed it up with lots of pretty frills, talked about how everything would be "better", but when you boiled it down, it became "the game doesn't suit me this way, so I demand it be changed".
You say you don't want more soft targets, but implementing incentives to draw PvE players into PvP zones gives you just that. Any PvP revamp would have to be designed to draw in more PvPers from the outside, and/or motivate one-time PvPers like me to bother engaging with it with any degree of seriousness - otherwise it's duck hunt 2.0, and PvE players start complaining because the "best" returns are in PvP-enabled zones, and they feel like they're "forced" into a style of gameplay they just don't want to get involved in.
And it can't be that all PvPers just want PvEvP zones just for the sake of having soft targets. In fact, a good number of us hate soft targets - whether they are on your team, or on the other side. They are, to put it simply, unfun to fight against. Same way a good chess player finds it unfun to play against a total beginner. It serves no challenge, and it just makes us feel guilty.
But this doesn't change the simple fact that making mixed zones with PvE content "in the contested areas" will provide exactly that- large numbers of soft targets who mostly want nothing to do with PvP. People who wouldn't even be there except for the PvE shinies their compulsion forces them to pursue.
Ask any scientist- no matter how much you want a particular result, you'll get the results your experiment produces whether it's what you want or not. And the situation of hiding PvE content in a PvP zone has been tried before, with predictable and repeatable results. (Which were not the "hordes of happy new PvPers making new builds to be competitive" pie-in-the-sky dreams the PvP aficionados insist such actions will produce. Think forums full of PvE players shrieking about being "farmed" to pad someone's K/D ratio, and another "ghost town" area in-game with PvPers emanding something ("else") be done to attract all the avid PvPers who just haven't realized they're avid PvPers in to play with them...and then the cycle repeats.)
If pvp was so good for the overall health of the game, then why exactly are there so many advocates complaining about people "fearing" some bizarre mandatory PVP obstacle course that PVEers have to run through for their giggles?
If it was so great to watch gankers strut around and smacktalk in zone chat, there wouldn't be a need to try to force pvp on them, now would there?
There's Darkfall and Mortal Online if you want all ganking all the time. Those games are a little deserted at the moment, for the same reasons we shouldn't have it here.
I just want to clarify a small point here, that been that I didn't at any point say that all PvP centric players are smack talking trolls. Just that there are enough of them that are to put me off wanting anything to do with it. You get the odd one in PvE play too (eg. griefers in STFs who like to mess it up as they find it funny to do so), but they're just not as common or as vocal.
I didn't mention elitists, there are just as many of them in PvE as there are in PvP, probably. Then there are the folks who insist that to have a good build for PvE it has to be good build for PvP, which is just patantly untrue. :rolleyes:
As to my preferring that the devs spend their time working on content I will enjoy, yup, totally selfish. Just as wanting devs to spend their time working on content you enjoy (you been a broad you, not a you aimed at any particular individual posting in this thread) is selfish too. I make no apology for this, and feel no shame in it either. End of the day, I play this game for my own enjoyment, not out of some sense of altruism or charity towards others. Heck I wont object if the devs do decide to revamp/add more content for PvP (I'll only object if they add open zone PK.... Even with a flag option, as been there, done that, seen how it gets abused... You already get people who try to get you to accept spam challenges), I'm just not going to add my support to requests for such.
I don't fear a PvP revamp, I just don't particularly want one. Fear is what I feel when I have to put my hand in my pet tarantula's tank (I tend to use very long tongs where possible. lol), not what I feel when playing games. I suspect however that the OP just worded the thread title badly, and didn't really mean fear. lol
I don't mind pvp...as boring as it is.
I think Ker'rat is much better.
More PvPvE is the way to go.
I agree. More PvPe zones.
Some will continue to cry that its unfair yet they will also continue to enter such zones to farm them as often as they are allowed.
Some will still enter to look for soft targets as the Defender of the greater good or the vile predator killing for fun. Both will still gank their targets as thats what they really enjoy.
Some continue to enter yhem looking for quick fun pvp matches. Some of those will actually learn to enjoy pvp. Some will die alot and blaim it on other things.
Overall it will add another aspect to the game, enriching the game just a little bit more.
As long as it's optional, I'm not opposed to more PvPvE zones. I've been in Ker'rat a few times myself and even scored a player kill once or twice. If we get the ability to make Foundry maps for PvP, I'll probably even try that once I finish "Bait and Switch".
But this is a PvE-centric casual MMO, always has been, and the player culture expects it to stay that way because it's what they're used to. Trying to force people to play PvP when the player culture is not organized around it is a good way to send your game to the Great Respawn Zone in the Sky.
One thing they could do is make it so that changing maps doesn't remove you from a PVP public queue. That's half the problem with playing a pug match, right there: it takes forever to fill an instance because moving around while you wait boots you.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think that a lot of people are afraid of PvP simply because the word conjures up the worst possible vision of it. Constantly getting ganked, spawncamping, noobtubers, that one ***hole that uses Oddjob and the Golden Gun all the time....
You know, the worst things possible.
But as someone who has played a lot of PvP games, nay, someone who plays them a bit too much, I can say that most often this is not the case as long as the game allows something to counter every strategy. Things like TF2's Ubercharges, DotA's Towers and Wards, Battlefields Vehicles and C4 pack, and Goldeneyes Proximity Mines.
The thing is, this game doesn't have anything like those things. The best strategies are the best strategies because theres no way to counter them. And thats the problem, in a PvP game there can be no "best strategy" otherwise people will use that, and that alone. That's why a lot of people only want stock equipment in PvP, and others don't want PvP at all.
I agree. More PvPe zones.
Some will continue to cry that its unfair yet they will also continue to enter such zones to farm them as often as they are allowed.
Some will still enter to look for soft targets as the Defender of the greater good or the vile predator killing for fun. Both will still gank their targets as thats what they really enjoy.
Some continue to enter yhem looking for quick fun pvp matches. Some of those will actually learn to enjoy pvp. Some will die alot and blaim it on other things.
Overall it will add another aspect to the game, enriching the game just a little bit more.
And this is why PvE people are against PvP stuff. I have no interest in PvP at all however if those zones that stuff in them that I needed to be able to do new task forces it would seriously annoy me. I would probably go into the zones and try to get the stuff but ignore the other players entirely. If you attacked me I would just ignore you until you blew my ship up or you left me alone. If the problem was bad enough that I could not get the item I would probably just give up on the game. Nothing you add to the game is going to make PvP interesting to me.
I do NOT play this game for the challenge in any way shape or form. If I want a challenge I have work that I am trying to relax from. The games that have tried to force PvP or encourage more people to do it typically create a large backlash and the games end up dying.
If you really want a game that focuses on PvP go play EVE. STO is not focused on PvP in any way, it is barely more than a checkbox feature. The vast majority of people have no interest in PvP. They don't even want to know it exists and requiring them to go to PvP areas to get PvE stuff will just cause them to leave and go to another game. You can bet that Cryptic and PWE would not do that. The impact of putting PvE content in PvP areas is pretty well known.
I think that a lot of people are afraid of PvP simply because the word conjures up the worst possible vision of it. Constantly getting ganked, spawncamping, noobtubers, that one ***hole that uses Oddjob and the Golden Gun all the time....
Many people are not afraid of PvP. They simply want nothing to do with it. After creating simulations for chemical reactor designs, solving complex equations etc I just want to relax. PvP holds no interest for me at all. Most people have I know in my fleet have lives, they have work, kids etc and they do get interrupted during task forces and sometimes need to leave. PvP is just not really compatible with that kind of environment. They just want to login and relax from the stress of life, not create more stress or deal with trash talking. I don't even understand why people still do that.
Overall I like the kind of atmosphere that PvE focused games create. It tends to have a much more mature player base and one that is generally nicer.
Many people are not afraid of PvP. They simply want nothing to do with it. After creating simulations for chemical reactor designs, solving complex equations etc I just want to relax. PvP holds no interest for me at all. Most people have I know in my fleet have lives, they have work, kids etc and they do get interrupted during task forces and sometimes need to leave. PvP is just not really compatible with that kind of environment. They just want to login and relax from the stress of life, not create more stress or deal with trash talking. I don't even understand why people still do that.
Overall I like the kind of atmosphere that PvE focused games create. It tends to have a much more mature player base and one that is generally nicer.
You just proved my point correct there.............. :rolleyes:
And this is why PvE people are against PvP stuff. I have no interest in PvP at all however if those zones that stuff in them that I needed to be able to do new task forces it would seriously annoy me. I would probably go into the zones and try to get the stuff but ignore the other players entirely. If you attacked me I would just ignore you until you blew my ship up or you left me alone. If the problem was bad enough that I could not get the item I would probably just give up on the game. Nothing you add to the game is going to make PvP interesting to me.
This is actually what happened in City of Heroes with Bloody Bay and Warburg. They were 2 PvP Zones out of 4 PvP zones that gave really good PvE equipment. Bloody Bay gave 5 charges for a combat pet that lasted 5 minutes and it was Elite Boss level. Warburg gave a choice of nukes that either buffed your team, debuffed your enemies, or attacked your enemies directly. A lot of the time when you encountered an enemy, there was absolutely no attacking involved. Just a wariness about whether they would attack or not. Even had enemies help me with the objective just because we were in the same place and wanted the same thing.
I believe the problem PvEers have with PvPers is the fear that PvP will ruin a part of their game. Like nerfing a skill in PvE because it causes problems in PvP.
Trying to force people to play PvP when the player culture is not organized around it is a good way to send your game to the Great Respawn Zone in the Sky.
Where does this come from? Where have people been advocating a PvEvP zone that a player is forced to enter to advance their PvE game? If, a PvP zone has PvE elements which are not unique to that zone, then participation in that zone is optional. Entering that zone is a player's choice, not a forced mandate.
As for people playing this game to "relax", please, give me a break. I have yet to see this game being advertised as a relaxing, sedate, experience of serene waterfalls and cool meadows. Go do some yoga, meditation, or finger painting. Or stick to the areas of the game where you can realax. Certainly Elite STF's were not designed as relaxing respites.
I've said before, it's a big game. There's room for more than one playstyle to be accommodated. Let's not be selfish and try to prevent those playstyles from participating in the MMO version of the IP we all care about.
when it's OPTIONAL you don't have to. You don't HAVE to go into Ker'rat. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination required. I think you're missing that little distinction there-most of the PvP community isn't INTERESTED in ganking you in your day-to-day play if you're not interested in fighting back. (the ones that are, are the sort of douches that infest STF play in PvE these days.)
I think you're missing that (not so) subtle difference, and seek to impose your view on ALL players, rather than allowing them to choose for themselves.
Also, based on what I've seen in coop play around here, your stereotype really DOES fit better in the PvE crowd, where you have a lot of AFK, Farming, Trolling, Rudeness, and abusive treatment of other players.
Especially the abuse. New guy goes into, say, Cure Elite on a PuG for the first time, he gets shouted at and called names because he made a mistake, or didn't have a "Decent build", or was flying the wrong kind of ship, or people drop out of it when the optional fails, leaving the new guy there by himself-without a word beforehand.
It happens ALL THE TIME.
That's PvE as a community from where I sit.
I disagree with the meme floating around that PVP, in Kerrat or otherwise, is full of polite people of integrity. It's roughly as bogus, if not more, than saying that everyone who PVPs is some kind of sociopathic monster.
I see this notion being peddled as far as League of Legends, regarding how DOTA2 people are civilized and LoL people are barbarians. Of course, LoL people say the same about DOTA2 people.
How about you drop the broad vague assumption about what unwashed peasants PVEers are and find a more persuasive way to get more people interested in your corner of the game?
Comments
Point those posts out. Better yet, give us the ratio of those posts to the number of posts in the forum. Cite anything that supports this generalization of the PvP mindset.
I think very few posts have been made that suggest PvP zones that a PvE player would have to enter. There have been many suggestions for PvP zones that a PvE player might want to enter (for a slightly better loot drop or a little more exp), but that's not quite the same thing, is it?
The selfishness of some of the antiPvP posts in these forums boggles the mind.
Deconstructionism at its basest. I take it you are ready to "prove" your own claims, such as "antiPVP posters are selfish". Presumptively you only have the best in mind for the lowly PVEers you look down upon? Or will the benefits of catering to your elite minority trickle down upon us?
Do tell.
Sure, right after my preceding request for support is addressed. Mine won't be hard to construct, as I have enough in this thread to make the point.
eta: btw, if you use quotations marks when referring to something I've posted, they should be wrapped around something I've actually posted, not your chosen rephrasing. /eta
You can try to characterize it that way if, you wish, but there was no elitism in my post... at least as far as PvP is concerned (I'm not very good at it).
And remember, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
Enough what? Arrogance, condescension, and strawman assumptions of what those dirty unwashed PVE peasants are "afraid" of, as the OP's title suggests?
The part at the end was pointless. Good for you, you can borrow quotes. So can 99% of Reddit.
You seem to be getting upset and hostile, so I'm gonna stop, because I'm starting to feel bullied..
Uh huh. Nice "u mad" attempt. Next time trying responding to the actual post.
It ends up being tantamount to the same thing, since it equates to PvE players entering PvP zones because that's where the best loot and/or exp comes from, and henceforth being wailed on by a bunch of e-peenflation addicts who, as you so eloquently demonstrate with this post:
just love giving it, but simply can't take it.
That's what the "let's encourage PvE players to want to enter PvP zones" mantra tends to come down to: PvPers wanting incentives to draw more soft targets into PvP-enabled zones, so it's less of a challenge for them to inflate their egos.
Actually, just trying to avoid my third warning in these forums.
There are 10 types of people in the world; those that get it and those that don't.
I must also say that I miss going to Roxy in DS9 ... everything changes.
regards
Please tell me why you as a PvPer would want to see PvP zones with larger numbers of typically less-skilled (in the PvP sense) players roaming around, beyond wanting more people to bumrush targets with, and/or more targets period, or being bored facing the same small number of people all the time.
Face it, advocating getting more PvE players into PvP zones by offering a carrot on a stick, serves a selfish purpose. You want them to give PvP a boost, because the PvP community is so small that no matter what the dev team does, if it doesn't involve getting more players involved - by hook or by crook - it'll remain nothing more than a damp squib.
Not to mention it's hardly right to split people into camps like this.
It can hardly be that all PvEers are so completely against PvP getting a little something. I mean, just one new map a season, and a balancing algorithm for the queues. Hardly much at all, eh? Something like that would earn plenty of goodwill, and hardly costs much time. In fact, one PvPer came up with a sorting algorithm in a matter of 1-2 weeks! Is that really too much to ask? Sure, there may be some selfish posts. But why assume that the entire community is out to get you when they probably aren't? In fact, many of them have said it's just apathy. It's not fear or hate.
And it can't be that all PvPers just want PvEvP zones just for the sake of having soft targets. In fact, a good number of us hate soft targets - whether they are on your team, or on the other side. They are, to put it simply, unfun to fight against. Same way a good chess player finds it unfun to play against a total beginner. It serves no challenge, and it just makes us feel guilty. PvPers have a Klingon mindset - to test their strength against another's is the objective. So, no, hardly a desire for soft targets. I'd much rather have someone capable of fighting back and having me on the ropes than someone who doesn't do much.
And why do we want more people then? Variety! Having more people to play with, coming up with new builds and new strategies, and all sorts of different things. The game is more fun with more teams and more players. If it's more fun, even for the new players.....well, more fun is good, right? With more people, balancing is easier, more activity, no need to waste time in queues, better, more fun PvP for both those already playing and those coming in.
Come on now, splitting off into tribes like this isn't going to do anything. Thread question's already answered, anyways. Most posters in this thread, it seems, don't fear a revamp, they're just apathetic about it, and would prefer that significant resources not be spent on something irrelevant to them.
I don't mind pvp...as boring as it is.
I think Ker'rat is much better.
More PvPvE is the way to go.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
It never works out that way, though. Hell, back when DFO released and I was still part of a PvP gaming guild, in spite of it being a PvP-centric MMO, because it offered a variety of PvE-oriented gameplay outlets - crafting, a large variety of tough mobs with decent(ish) AI to fight, village building, etc - two camps rapidly developed and waged forum war against each other. That was a very clear-cut case of PvE-focused players coming into a touted PvP-centric game, and demanding the game change to cater to them. They too dressed it up with lots of pretty frills, talked about how everything would be "better", but when you boiled it down, it became "the game doesn't suit me this way, so I demand it be changed".
You say you don't want more soft targets, but implementing incentives to draw PvE players into PvP zones gives you just that. Any PvP revamp would have to be designed to draw in more PvPers from the outside, and/or motivate one-time PvPers like me to bother engaging with it with any degree of seriousness - otherwise it's duck hunt 2.0, and PvE players start complaining because the "best" returns are in PvP-enabled zones, and they feel like they're "forced" into a style of gameplay they just don't want to get involved in.
But this doesn't change the simple fact that making mixed zones with PvE content "in the contested areas" will provide exactly that- large numbers of soft targets who mostly want nothing to do with PvP. People who wouldn't even be there except for the PvE shinies their compulsion forces them to pursue.
Ask any scientist- no matter how much you want a particular result, you'll get the results your experiment produces whether it's what you want or not. And the situation of hiding PvE content in a PvP zone has been tried before, with predictable and repeatable results. (Which were not the "hordes of happy new PvPers making new builds to be competitive" pie-in-the-sky dreams the PvP aficionados insist such actions will produce. Think forums full of PvE players shrieking about being "farmed" to pad someone's K/D ratio, and another "ghost town" area in-game with PvPers emanding something ("else") be done to attract all the avid PvPers who just haven't realized they're avid PvPers in to play with them...and then the cycle repeats.)
If it was so great to watch gankers strut around and smacktalk in zone chat, there wouldn't be a need to try to force pvp on them, now would there?
There's Darkfall and Mortal Online if you want all ganking all the time. Those games are a little deserted at the moment, for the same reasons we shouldn't have it here.
I didn't mention elitists, there are just as many of them in PvE as there are in PvP, probably.
As to my preferring that the devs spend their time working on content I will enjoy, yup, totally selfish. Just as wanting devs to spend their time working on content you enjoy (you been a broad you, not a you aimed at any particular individual posting in this thread) is selfish too. I make no apology for this, and feel no shame in it either. End of the day, I play this game for my own enjoyment, not out of some sense of altruism or charity towards others.
I don't fear a PvP revamp, I just don't particularly want one. Fear is what I feel when I have to put my hand in my pet tarantula's tank (I tend to use very long tongs where possible. lol), not what I feel when playing games.
I agree. More PvPe zones.
Some will continue to cry that its unfair yet they will also continue to enter such zones to farm them as often as they are allowed.
Some will still enter to look for soft targets as the Defender of the greater good or the vile predator killing for fun. Both will still gank their targets as thats what they really enjoy.
Some continue to enter yhem looking for quick fun pvp matches. Some of those will actually learn to enjoy pvp. Some will die alot and blaim it on other things.
Overall it will add another aspect to the game, enriching the game just a little bit more.
R.I.P
But this is a PvE-centric casual MMO, always has been, and the player culture expects it to stay that way because it's what they're used to. Trying to force people to play PvP when the player culture is not organized around it is a good way to send your game to the Great Respawn Zone in the Sky.
One thing they could do is make it so that changing maps doesn't remove you from a PVP public queue. That's half the problem with playing a pug match, right there: it takes forever to fill an instance because moving around while you wait boots you.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
You know, the worst things possible.
But as someone who has played a lot of PvP games, nay, someone who plays them a bit too much, I can say that most often this is not the case as long as the game allows something to counter every strategy. Things like TF2's Ubercharges, DotA's Towers and Wards, Battlefields Vehicles and C4 pack, and Goldeneyes Proximity Mines.
The thing is, this game doesn't have anything like those things. The best strategies are the best strategies because theres no way to counter them. And thats the problem, in a PvP game there can be no "best strategy" otherwise people will use that, and that alone. That's why a lot of people only want stock equipment in PvP, and others don't want PvP at all.
And this is why PvE people are against PvP stuff. I have no interest in PvP at all however if those zones that stuff in them that I needed to be able to do new task forces it would seriously annoy me. I would probably go into the zones and try to get the stuff but ignore the other players entirely. If you attacked me I would just ignore you until you blew my ship up or you left me alone. If the problem was bad enough that I could not get the item I would probably just give up on the game. Nothing you add to the game is going to make PvP interesting to me.
I do NOT play this game for the challenge in any way shape or form. If I want a challenge I have work that I am trying to relax from. The games that have tried to force PvP or encourage more people to do it typically create a large backlash and the games end up dying.
If you really want a game that focuses on PvP go play EVE. STO is not focused on PvP in any way, it is barely more than a checkbox feature. The vast majority of people have no interest in PvP. They don't even want to know it exists and requiring them to go to PvP areas to get PvE stuff will just cause them to leave and go to another game. You can bet that Cryptic and PWE would not do that. The impact of putting PvE content in PvP areas is pretty well known.
Many people are not afraid of PvP. They simply want nothing to do with it. After creating simulations for chemical reactor designs, solving complex equations etc I just want to relax. PvP holds no interest for me at all. Most people have I know in my fleet have lives, they have work, kids etc and they do get interrupted during task forces and sometimes need to leave. PvP is just not really compatible with that kind of environment. They just want to login and relax from the stress of life, not create more stress or deal with trash talking. I don't even understand why people still do that.
Overall I like the kind of atmosphere that PvE focused games create. It tends to have a much more mature player base and one that is generally nicer.
You just proved my point correct there.............. :rolleyes:
This is actually what happened in City of Heroes with Bloody Bay and Warburg. They were 2 PvP Zones out of 4 PvP zones that gave really good PvE equipment. Bloody Bay gave 5 charges for a combat pet that lasted 5 minutes and it was Elite Boss level. Warburg gave a choice of nukes that either buffed your team, debuffed your enemies, or attacked your enemies directly. A lot of the time when you encountered an enemy, there was absolutely no attacking involved. Just a wariness about whether they would attack or not. Even had enemies help me with the objective just because we were in the same place and wanted the same thing.
I believe the problem PvEers have with PvPers is the fear that PvP will ruin a part of their game. Like nerfing a skill in PvE because it causes problems in PvP.
You didn't have much of a "point" to begin with, except what you're doing right now: more posturing without substance. The eyeroll says it all.
Why exactly would anyone want to play with someone with your attitude anyway? You're not helping your case at all.
Where does this come from? Where have people been advocating a PvEvP zone that a player is forced to enter to advance their PvE game? If, a PvP zone has PvE elements which are not unique to that zone, then participation in that zone is optional. Entering that zone is a player's choice, not a forced mandate.
As for people playing this game to "relax", please, give me a break. I have yet to see this game being advertised as a relaxing, sedate, experience of serene waterfalls and cool meadows. Go do some yoga, meditation, or finger painting. Or stick to the areas of the game where you can realax. Certainly Elite STF's were not designed as relaxing respites.
I've said before, it's a big game. There's room for more than one playstyle to be accommodated. Let's not be selfish and try to prevent those playstyles from participating in the MMO version of the IP we all care about.
I disagree with the meme floating around that PVP, in Kerrat or otherwise, is full of polite people of integrity. It's roughly as bogus, if not more, than saying that everyone who PVPs is some kind of sociopathic monster.
I see this notion being peddled as far as League of Legends, regarding how DOTA2 people are civilized and LoL people are barbarians. Of course, LoL people say the same about DOTA2 people.
How about you drop the broad vague assumption about what unwashed peasants PVEers are and find a more persuasive way to get more people interested in your corner of the game?