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What's with all the Khev hate?

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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    What they say;

    "Tovan gets forced upon us."

    What they mean;

    "I can't populate my ship with only large breasted Bridge Bunnies"

    But but....I like doing that...least for one of my crews....hue hue hue...
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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    waaagh951waaagh951 Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    must admit. while i hated Tovan. always found a way to blame him. i did a misstype in fleet chat. blame tovan. but i grown to like him. even made a bio for him after the Romulan storyline ends
    Elasreya a boff i got that i hat no idea what to do a backstory for.
    made that after the story arc she and Tovan got married. works fine. now Tovan aint that much of a deal anymore. a bit of story added from my part using another boff made him one of my favority romulan ones.
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    reimu#1706 reimu Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Tovan is the First Officer people deserve not the one they need ... personally I like him mostly because he acts like a real bridge officer like they would on the show his the Riker to your Picard sort of speak :D
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    dom1941dom1941 Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I hate Khev...I hate his voice I want him off my ship..BUT...the concept of him acting like a real bridge officer, I like it, and personally if we could choose voice overs for our officers that would be great!:)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Cryptic, just give players the "option" to get rid of Tovan already.

    Jeez, if it's an issue of justifying the time/resources for a dev to figure out how to let players discharge Tovan without breaking the game then make it so that you have to purchase a C-store account option for 500 Zen if you want to get rid of Tovan.

    I'd happily pay 500 Zen to NEVER see Tovan on any of my ships ever again.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
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    kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    I think Id hate him less if the other NPCs you are handed were given 1/2 the development he was... They all have a nice start but then nothing... still tho I think the BEST idea aside from allowing dismissal is to make him not count toward BOFF slots or give him and any like him separate 'Storied BOFF' slots

    hell that could open up an entire Zen Store catagory... spend $5 or $10 get a blue or purple(depending on $$ cost) BOFF with their own little 5-8 mission story chain tied to levels so its spread out across your character's career
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    stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think that story oriented BOFFs are a good idea. MMOs tends to have very "dry" storylines and NPC like Tovan are adding to variety.

    If devs indeed wants to add more story BOFFs, it's a good idea. I also understand why the can't be dismissed from the crew.

    I would rather the player character be the center of attention. If anybody is going to get emotional it should be me...if anybody is going to give Empress Sela any backtalk it should be me...If anybody is going to be roughing up any captured Elachi it should be me.

    I think that boff stories are a good idea, but support character storylines should support the main character which is you. I dont think some scrub NPC should be the center of attention. Cataclysm was the only WoW expac i didnt play but i heard from a lot of players that Thrall, the NPC faction leader, was given a little too much time in the spotlight. I think when the players finally killed Deathwing the final boss for the expac all the NPCs credited Thrall with the kill and the players were just there to help. People took notice of that and of course they didnt like it.

    That's pretty much what i dont like seeing. Storywriters will start to write a story about some NPC then they get too carried away and they forget all about the player.
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    zigadeiczigadeic Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I kinda like Tovan...but that outfit made me lol

    If people don't like him then don't...but some people are reacting like it's game breaking to have him...it's just one boff slot. I suppose for you though it's game braking to not have a full slim and busty ground crew...

    I like my bridge bunnies :D
    tumblr_m9xiz26mwj1rdabsoo1_r1_400.gif
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    kintishokintisho Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    HATES it precious....


    I have 2 romulan and 1 reman char. I am slowly diversifying and specializing their ship's and crews.. Yest somehow across all 3 of their bridges (and in rosters) this one guy just keeps popping his Romulan face throughout mission dialog, setting around eating my food.. Dont get me wrong a purple quality BOff from the start, not bad to get a new char going (and maybe surviving considering the somewhat glass nature of warbirds) ut at the end I want them out of the cradle and I dont want Khev following me around for the rest of STO...

    Or at least say he is a custodial clone forced on all RRW captains to keep them in check or something more than "hes just there" like hes part of Q or something....
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    reimu#1706 reimu Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    khev is here to stay considering the resources they spent bringing him to life I severely doubt they will let you haters dismiss him so accept it already and move on if anything we already have more freedom in the crew roster then any of the series showed the captain to have only captain in star trek history who had complete control over his crew roster was the all Vulcan Crew captain in Ds9 and he was no doubt the exception not the rule
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    stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    khev is here to stay considering the resources they spent bringing him to life I severely doubt they will let you haters dismiss him so accept it already and move on if anything we already have more freedom in the crew roster then any of the series showed the captain to have only captain in star trek history who had complete control over his crew roster was the all Vulcan Crew captain in Ds9 and he was no doubt the exception not the rule

    Are you comparing our freedom with the roster in game with the freedom that captains have with their officers...in the tv shows?
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    reimu#1706 reimu Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    well ye if this is to be Star Trek then some of the core rules we've seen should be followed personally i don't care if my ship is auto crewed by monkeys as long as it allows me to kill borg and have fun
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    pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    twg042370 wrote: »
    What they say;

    "Tovan gets forced upon us."

    What they mean;

    "I can't populate my ship with only large breasted Bridge Bunnies"

    Or players could be like me: A Reman commander with an all-Reman (male and female) crew ... except for the useless d-bag Tovan who takes up the First Officer's chair on my bridge and won't shut up.

    I should have a ability to have an all-Reman crew if that's what I want. Or all Trill, Vulcan, Human, whatever. I'm not saying YOU should be forced to dismiss Tovan ... but I shouldn't be forced to keep him.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
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    dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    stonewbie wrote: »
    Are you comparing our freedom with the roster in game with the freedom that captains have with their officers...in the tv shows?

    And here I thought Picard hand-picked most of his senior staff. One of the reasons for the shakedown to Farpoint was because that was the rendezvous with said hand-picked staff...

    Janeway? Tom, Tuvok at a minimum were 100% her selections, Harry, can't remember, the rest, didn't matter as they got "caretakered"...

    And I think Archer got to pick a good chunk of his crew, being that, well, there wasn't many crews to pick from... :P

    That leaves Kirk as the only one who's initial crew was forced upon him instead of being cherry-picked, but after that, it took till what, ST V for a movie without all of Kirk's crew on the same ship?
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
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    feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    khev is here to stay considering the resources they spent bringing him to life I severely doubt they will let you haters dismiss him so accept it already and move on if anything we already have more freedom in the crew roster then any of the series showed the captain to have only captain in star trek history who had complete control over his crew roster was the all Vulcan Crew captain in Ds9 and he was no doubt the exception not the rule

    Oh so you like him speaking for officers in the federation or the KDF too?
    If they spent a lot of resources so that you suddenly could not fire ship weapons and had no shields, would you live with it because they worked hard? Or would you ask for a fix?

    Tovan is a bitter pill for two big reasons.
    1) no other story character has interaction like him. If Satra, Veril, and Hiven had lines and plots to follow as well. Tovan would be less irritating on his own.
    2) Nimbus. You have to do the nimbus arc as fed and kdf now. But Tovan is the voice over no matter who your XO is. That is broken.
    (Not to mention he actually came up on my screen as if on my bridge KDF side.)

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    dareau wrote: »
    And here I thought Picard hand-picked most of his senior staff. One of the reasons for the shakedown to Farpoint was because that was the rendezvous with said hand-picked staff...

    Janeway? Tom, Tuvok at a minimum were 100% her selections, Harry, can't remember, the rest, didn't matter as they got "caretakered"...

    And I think Archer got to pick a good chunk of his crew, being that, well, there wasn't many crews to pick from... :P

    That leaves Kirk as the only one who's initial crew was forced upon him instead of being cherry-picked, but after that, it took till what, ST V for a movie without all of Kirk's crew on the same ship?
    Wasn't the part about hand-picking the crew something that was an unusual privilege that they had been given? IIRC there were multiple eps where part of the plot was: x is joining your staff, deal with it....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    dareau wrote: »
    And here I thought Picard hand-picked most of his senior staff. One of the reasons for the shakedown to Farpoint was because that was the rendezvous with said hand-picked staff...

    Janeway? Tom, Tuvok at a minimum were 100% her selections, Harry, can't remember, the rest, didn't matter as they got "caretakered"...

    And I think Archer got to pick a good chunk of his crew, being that, well, there wasn't many crews to pick from... :P

    That leaves Kirk as the only one who's initial crew was forced upon him instead of being cherry-picked, but after that, it took till what, ST V for a movie without all of Kirk's crew on the same ship?

    Actually except for Dax, Sisko had his crew forced upon him.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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    feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Wasn't the part about hand-picking the crew something that was an unusual privilege that they had been given? IIRC there were multiple eps where part of the plot was: x is joining your staff, deal with it....

    But that was usually for an episode then gone. The example in game would be the tag along of a certain admiral or Drake for a mission.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
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    feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    talonxv wrote: »
    Actually except for Dax, Sisko had his crew forced upon him.

    Station commander, not starship commander. And after his shakedown of his staff he fought to keep those people he knew and trusted. Till Starfleet forced a new security officer on him. . . That betrayed them. (Loved Odo's comment about the sabotage.) And he picked Worf.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    feiqa wrote: »
    But that was usually for an episode then gone. The example in game would be the tag along of a certain admiral or Drake for a mission.

    Exactly. I mean you can choose as a KDF or Fed officer or later on after you get the first 4 for Romulan which officers you do or don't want.

    Hell even with the first 3 officers you get after Tovan, you can choose not to take them in and merely replace them with someone else.

    Only person you can't, and after Nimbus III, I don't need him is Tovan.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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    pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If you want to get technical, we should look at the modern US Navy.

    While most crew are simply "assigned" to a ship without the choice being made by the commanding officer beforehand, every crewman aboard a ship serves at the discretion of the commanding officer unless otherwise dictated by mission circumstances or under direct orders from superior officers (again, due to mission-critical circumstances).

    It boils down to the fact that the Captain has total control over the ship while it's underway except in VERY rare situations. In modern terminology this concept is called "Subject to Captain's Discretion" or SCD.

    In other words, 99+ percent of the time no one can serve on a Navy ship if the Captain of the boat says "I don't want you on my ship." It doesn't mean you get discharged from the Navy, but it does mean you won't be serving on that ship.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
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    yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Personally I like the guy, not so much for the character himself but for the fact that he actually has a background, personality, and opinions.

    My Fed and KDF boffs are just... drones. They dont really have any substantial personality to them, they're all essentially the same. I'm really enjoying the fact that, with the Romulan storyline, I get a crew that has some sense of meaning and unity.

    The story is something I think worked out great, too. Fed and KDF are just kinda thrown out there, KDF at least got some kind of minor storyline to follow with the Fek'lhri thing, but feds dont really have any flow to them, feels like you're just going from one random unrelated mission to the next. The romulans seem to have been designed more along the lines of an actual RPG, which I'm loving.
    I fully agree with that.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Basically I see two factors to the Tovan hate:

    1: A confluence of bugs causes Tovan to try and take over jobs that aren't his. The department heads bug that's been around since LOR launched makes him try to steal your other boffs jobs. This is also a problem for feds and klinks, by the way: My XO/TO and Security Officer keep playing musical chairs, my Chief Engineer wants my Ops Officer's job, and my science officer, who by backstory specializes in planetary sciences, wants to be a doctor. Tovan also steals the microphone and has been known to speak for your away team when you don't even have him slotted.

    I hold myself to the same standard I hold other programmers: programming this buggy is unacceptable. Period. And if I have to delay release to kill bugs that I know about, I will damn well do it as a point of professional pride. Professional pride, alas, is something that seems to be in short supply these days.



    2: The fact that you're forced to use him interferes with RP. STO has, from the start, been set up to allow you to build your crew the way you want, focusing the story on the player. Contrast SWTOR, which from the start had all premade companions with their own stories.

    As a result, Cryptic has created the expectation that players will be able to create themed crews or otherwise design their crew the way they want (which, yes, may include a fleet a bridge bunnies they can TRIBBLE to). By contrast, Tovan cannot be customized beyond looks (and initially you couldn't even do that much), forcing players to tailor their story to him rather than the other way around. Contrast with Corspa, the free boff from the Fed tutorial. She's a blank slate. I renamed her, customized her looks, and gave her a backstory of my own choice.

    That's what it's about: Choice.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    reimu#1706 reimu Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    no matter how much you hate him Cryptic has invested to much time and money into breathing life into him to remove him now you can keep ******** about it or accept it and move on I'm sure there was similar posts on Legacy Beta and guess what Cryptic still put him in there so conclusion they don't care

    also the whole your the captain you made the choices speech was pointed at the Federation and the Klingon the Romlans was not even introduced yet when they made that ..... like Vader says in Empire strikes back "i'm altering the deal pray i don't alter it further" which is cryptic in a nutshell
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    kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited November 2013
    back on page 7 someone coughed up the idea of "Story BOFF" slots... I kinda expanded the idead over here if anyone is interested
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    starswordc wrote: »
    Basically I see two factors to the Tovan hate:

    1: A confluence of bugs causes Tovan to try and take over jobs that aren't his. The department heads bug that's been around since LOR launched makes him try to steal your other boffs jobs. This is also a problem for feds and klinks, by the way: My XO/TO and Security Officer keep playing musical chairs, my Chief Engineer wants my Ops Officer's job, and my science officer, who by backstory specializes in planetary sciences, wants to be a doctor. Tovan also steals the microphone and has been known to speak for your away team when you don't even have him slotted.

    I hold myself to the same standard I hold other programmers: programming this buggy is unacceptable. Period. And if I have to delay release to kill bugs that I know about, I will damn well do it as a point of professional pride. Professional pride, alas, is something that seems to be in short supply these days.



    2: The fact that you're forced to use him interferes with RP. STO has, from the start, been set up to allow you to build your crew the way you want, focusing the story on the player. Contrast SWTOR, which from the start had all premade companions with their own stories.

    As a result, Cryptic has created the expectation that players will be able to create themed crews or otherwise design their crew the way they want (which, yes, may include a fleet a bridge bunnies they can TRIBBLE to). By contrast, Tovan cannot be customized beyond looks (and initially you couldn't even do that much), forcing players to tailor their story to him rather than the other way around. Contrast with Corspa, the free boff from the Fed tutorial. She's a blank slate. I renamed her, customized her looks, and gave her a backstory of my own choice.

    That's what it's about: Choice.

    Nail, meet the head of the hammer, Cause you nailed it flat.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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    scrag0416scrag0416 Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Here's hoping to a ball gag and Chasity belt for Tovan Khev.......
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    protogothprotogoth Member Posts: 2,369 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'm seriously becoming tempted by all the Tovan hate to write into my character's bio that she and Tovan have decided to get married.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If you want to get technical, we should look at the modern US Navy.

    While most crew are simply "assigned" to a ship without the choice being made by the commanding officer beforehand, every crewman aboard a ship serves at the discretion of the commanding officer unless otherwise dictated by mission circumstances or under direct orders from superior officers (again, due to mission-critical circumstances).

    It boils down to the fact that the Captain has total control over the ship while it's underway except in VERY rare situations. In modern terminology this concept is called "Subject to Captain's Discretion" or SCD.

    In other words, 99+ percent of the time no one can serve on a Navy ship if the Captain of the boat says "I don't want you on my ship." It doesn't mean you get discharged from the Navy, but it does mean you won't be serving on that ship.
    The counterpoint to that is that only an idiot would (IRL) ditch all of his crew and get a completely new crew just because he didn't like them.

    To a certain extent, Captain's Discretion applies to all military commanders. The vast majority aren't dumb enough to think that ditching everyone they dislike is a good idea. Among other things it casts them in a generally bad light, and may cause others to view them as an obnoxious slave driver, including their superiors.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The counterpoint to that is that only an idiot would (IRL) ditch all of his crew and get a completely new crew just because he didn't like them.

    And the counterpoint to that is that we're not talking about the whole crew, just the command staff.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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