Fedside Romulan is no better or worse than KDF. He's still annoying, he still tells the captain what to do in WAY more of a whiny tone than he should, and he still shrugs his shoulders after you find the sister he made you fly across the galaxy for.
Fedside Romulan is no better or worse than KDF. He's still annoying, he still tells the captain what to do in WAY more of a whiny tone than he should, and he still shrugs his shoulders after you find the sister he made you fly across the galaxy for.
I found that a bit..odd, as well. Tovan seems too obsessed with finding his sister in earlier parts of the storyline, then the whole finding her goes flat.No thank you captain, or anything in the emotional response department from either of them. That bugged me enough to not use my Romulan character for a few weeks. I feel that once you complete the Romulan story missions, and get to the recycled federation stories, the players should be able to dismiss Tovan.
You know how, unless you've retrained his ground skills, Tovan loves to lunge at his targets (which is spectacularly stupid when you're using, say, a plasma sniper rifle)?
Well, while running my all-Tovan crew through Nimbus III, I got a bat'leth. And it occurred to me that there was one very good use for the silly thing. I gave it to Tovan (in this crew, he's named Tovan Khev2, because I'm Tovan Khev), and now he's a freaking combat monster.
Khev represents everything that is wrong with Cryptic's depiction of the Romulans and the Federation-clone Romulan "Republic."
I'd space him for insubordination and being a traitor to the Star Empire if I could.
That's a little harsh, I'd say it goes to D'Tan. Watching the tier 5 cutscene as a Romulan is painful with the way he talks about sharing secrets and working together blah blah blah, I mean even the Federation did sneaky underhanded things to get the Romulans into the Dominion War and the way D'Tan acts is just so stupidly naive and un-Romulan. The Elachi storyline imo is salvageable if we chalk everything up to rogue elements of the Tal Shiar, but D'Tan just no. Khev would be too if he were customizable (aka dismissable) and not forced.
If people don't like him then don't...but some people are reacting like it's game breaking to have him...it's just one boff slot. I suppose for you though it's game braking to not have a full slim and busty ground crew...
In this case, yes, yes it is. :P
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Tovan Khev is an agent of Hell. There are darker forces in play here, than people realize.
Exactly!!!
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
That's a little harsh, I'd say it goes to D'Tan. Watching the tier 5 cutscene as a Romulan is painful with the way he talks about sharing secrets and working together blah blah blah, I mean even the Federation did sneaky underhanded things to get the Romulans into the Dominion War and the way D'Tan acts is just so stupidly naive and un-Romulan. The Elachi storyline imo is salvageable if we chalk everything up to rogue elements of the Tal Shiar, but D'Tan just no. Khev would be too if he were customizable (aka dismissable) and not forced.
Why "rogue elements of the Tal'Shiar"? The Tal'Shiar is not a good thing. It never has been.
That's a little harsh, I'd say it goes to D'Tan. Watching the tier 5 cutscene as a Romulan is painful with the way he talks about sharing secrets and working together blah blah blah, I mean even the Federation did sneaky underhanded things to get the Romulans into the Dominion War and the way D'Tan acts is just so stupidly naive and un-Romulan. The Elachi storyline imo is salvageable if we chalk everything up to rogue elements of the Tal Shiar, but D'Tan just no. Khev would be too if he were customizable (aka dismissable) and not forced.
First it was not the Federation it was Garak with after a lot of soul searching approval from Sisko.
Second D'tan is an idealist. He is in power because the people on New Romulus are sick of the way the Tal Shi'ar have been operating. Brutal oppression only lasts so long. After a little while they will want a leader less . . . Hmm I don't have a good word for him. He is not quite na?ve nor inexperienced, his moves seem quite open and able to bear scrutiny. But he will eventually get mauled by a more shrewd politician. Anyone have the word I am looking for?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Why "rogue elements of the Tal'Shiar"? The Tal'Shiar is not a good thing. It never has been.
As you could probably tell I really don't like STO's portrayal of the Tal Shiar, yes they're the ruthless Romulan intelligence services, but I find it more interesting when they're portrayed as (misguided) patriots who're protecting the Star Empire from external threats by whatever means necessary (like their secret deal to destroy the Founders with the Obsidian Order, that one mission with Charva) than the torture happy sadistic downright bad guys we have here (basically everything else).
First it was not the Federation it was Garak with after a lot of soul searching approval from Sisko.
Second D'tan is an idealist. He is in power because the people on New Romulus are sick of the way the Tal Shi'ar have been operating. Brutal oppression only lasts so long. After a little while they will want a leader less . . . Hmm I don't have a good word for him. He is not quite na?ve nor inexperienced, his moves seem quite open and able to bear scrutiny. But he will eventually get mauled by a more shrewd politician. Anyone have the word I am looking for?
All true. It's just the way he comes off he seems to me like someone who's so idealistic he's putting his ideals ahead of the Romulan people, and when shrewdness is the Romulan way, his lack thereof is un-Romulan.
Back to Khev, he's not as bad as D'Tan, but same kind of character, and it's all not very Romulan, at least the Romulan from the shows.
I don't see any need to promote sexist and chauvinist perspectives. :mad:
Says the slim, busty captain.
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Back to Khev, he's not as bad as D'Tan, but same kind of character, and it's all not very Romulan, at least the Romulan from the shows.
And all most of us ever saw of the Romulans in the shows were military and Tal Shiar types. Outside the navy and state sec we saw only a few politicians and no ordinary civilians at all.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And all most of us ever saw of the Romulans in the shows were military and Tal Shiar types. Outside the navy and state sec we saw only a few politicians and no ordinary civilians at all.
I think that's what a lot of the haters are losing sight of. Khev isn't military, and never was. Your own character may or may not be - I've got one who informally "retired" from the Imperial fleet, and one who grew up as a farmer on Virinat. Expecting him to conform to proper military discipline is something we used to call "metagaming" in tabletop RPGs - playing a character as if the character has all of the player's knowledge. It's generally frowned upon, as it tends to lead to characters who know all the loopholes in their restrictions - in the real world, you can't count on GM leniency when you get a total party kill, for instance, but if you know your GM doesn't want it to happen in a game, you can act in a completely stupid and suicidal fashion. (Or, for instance, a D&D paladin who knows he can commit an evil act, and all he has to do is go on a quest afterward to restore his good name.)
Yes, he's a bit insubordinate, and doesn't really know when to shut up. It's almost as if he's just some jumped-up groundside mechanic who escaped a disaster with you once. Oh, wait...
Oh, and you can complain about what skills you think Khev lacks - all I know is, since I gave him that bat'leth, he's been frigging unstoppable. In a couple of combats, he was last man standing, and revived everyone else at the end.
For me it's got nothing to do with hate. I just don't find him appealing. I find his readiness to leave his sister behind after going through gre'thor and high water to find her a glaring plot hole. not so much as a wrap up story (even the the mission 'Darkness before the dawn' had a better wrap up for a boff we hardly know anything about and never hear from again. at least there's some closure).
I find his willingness to buy into the Republics doctrine of it being ok to pretty much get absorbed into the Klingon/Federation governments armies un-romulan. Now no two romulans are the same, I get that but they are a independent culture. We Need to be able to pick and dismiss crew as we see fit. It doesn't matter if it's Federation, Klingon or Klingomulan/Federomulan-Republic.:P
I can have a boff that can juggle 10 lightsabers at the same time, bring balance to the force, and single handedly seal the rift in the Medusa cascade. but if I don't like him/her away they go.
Now they got the Klingon and Federation Boff stories right. they complement your character but it doesn't feel like it's their world and you're just there for the ride. Which for the many things the romulan republic story-line gets right and believe me theres a lot of awesome things they did. they over developed him. The story focuses more on Tovan then your character.
And all most of us ever saw of the Romulans in the shows were military and Tal Shiar types. Outside the navy and state sec we saw only a few politicians and no ordinary civilians at all.
An interesting point which I am more than happy to concede. I guess where I'm coming from is that what canon we have establishes this Romulan 'culture' if you will, certain truisms about the species, and D'Tan and to a lesser extent Khev goes against that. It's like finding some friendly, nonxenophobic Tholians, everything we know from Trek about the species suggests otherwise and it'd be very strange to see them, but maybe there are some friendly Tholians out there too, but nonetheless they're the exception not the rule and I want to play the rule and not the special snowflake exception.
Only imagine, Sela returns with romulan fleet allied with Iconians, Elachi and Hirogen. I would negotiate with the undine too. All romulan ships are upgraded with borg technology. Plus thelaron weapons. It would be a true undefeatable armada. Sela would restore Empire and it would be powerful like never before. d'tan and tovan khev would become jokes in the history. Oh, dreams...
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[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
Only imagine, Sela returns with romulan fleet allied with Iconians, Elachi and Hirogen. I would negotiate with the undine too. All romulan ships are upgraded with borg technology. Plus thelaron weapons. It would be a true undefeatable armada. Sela would restore Empire and it would be powerful like never before. d'tan and tovan khev would become jokes in the history. Oh, dreams...
Hmm, delusions. Sela returns with that force there will be no history written. The iconians see humans and romulans as too unstable for use to them so they are food for the elachi. They would eradicate all unusable slave races and bring the other to heel rebuilding the iconian home world and serving their 'betters'.
Besides, to be a proper romulan victory you need to bring ruin to the dreams of those that oppose you. Like getting a reman to deposit a bit of red matter in Vulcan with records of him working with D'tan. The ensuing chaos from this would destroy re-unification and tear down the 'jewel' of new Romulus before D'tan's eyes leaving him begging for death.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
You can't "negotiate" with the Undine, either. Their starting position is that if you cannot defeat them, you must die. Not a lot of room for give-and-take there...
Yeah, being forced to take him is what makes me hate him. Don't get me wrong, I like the whole backstory of his. I just don't like being forced to choose him. His personal quest is something of a disappointment too.
Highlight black text; (sorry for the spoiler, no real way to hide it.) You go on a side quest to rescue his sister, but once you do... nothing happens. Very disappointing.
Maybe if they gave us a choice of 3 different boffs, each with their own story.
Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
You can't "negotiate" with the Undine, either. Their starting position is that if you cannot defeat them, you must die. Not a lot of room for give-and-take there...
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I hate Tovan with passion. Even though i have assigned him to no station he still shows up on my bridge. His stupid attidude really spoiled the otherwise very good Romulan episodes.
On the other hand I really like Elisa Flores. I dismissed and recommisioned her a few times ... just because I can.
Comments
I found that a bit..odd, as well. Tovan seems too obsessed with finding his sister in earlier parts of the storyline, then the whole finding her goes flat.No thank you captain, or anything in the emotional response department from either of them. That bugged me enough to not use my Romulan character for a few weeks. I feel that once you complete the Romulan story missions, and get to the recycled federation stories, the players should be able to dismiss Tovan.
Well, while running my all-Tovan crew through Nimbus III, I got a bat'leth. And it occurred to me that there was one very good use for the silly thing. I gave it to Tovan (in this crew, he's named Tovan Khev2, because I'm Tovan Khev), and now he's a freaking combat monster.
I'd space him for insubordination and being a traitor to the Star Empire if I could.
That's a little harsh, I'd say it goes to D'Tan. Watching the tier 5 cutscene as a Romulan is painful with the way he talks about sharing secrets and working together blah blah blah, I mean even the Federation did sneaky underhanded things to get the Romulans into the Dominion War and the way D'Tan acts is just so stupidly naive and un-Romulan. The Elachi storyline imo is salvageable if we chalk everything up to rogue elements of the Tal Shiar, but D'Tan just no. Khev would be too if he were customizable (aka dismissable) and not forced.
In this case, yes, yes it is. :P
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Exactly!!!
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Why "rogue elements of the Tal'Shiar"? The Tal'Shiar is not a good thing. It never has been.
I don't see any need to promote sexist and chauvinist perspectives. :mad:
First it was not the Federation it was Garak with after a lot of soul searching approval from Sisko.
Second D'tan is an idealist. He is in power because the people on New Romulus are sick of the way the Tal Shi'ar have been operating. Brutal oppression only lasts so long. After a little while they will want a leader less . . . Hmm I don't have a good word for him. He is not quite na?ve nor inexperienced, his moves seem quite open and able to bear scrutiny. But he will eventually get mauled by a more shrewd politician. Anyone have the word I am looking for?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
As you could probably tell I really don't like STO's portrayal of the Tal Shiar, yes they're the ruthless Romulan intelligence services, but I find it more interesting when they're portrayed as (misguided) patriots who're protecting the Star Empire from external threats by whatever means necessary (like their secret deal to destroy the Founders with the Obsidian Order, that one mission with Charva) than the torture happy sadistic downright bad guys we have here (basically everything else).
All true. It's just the way he comes off he seems to me like someone who's so idealistic he's putting his ideals ahead of the Romulan people, and when shrewdness is the Romulan way, his lack thereof is un-Romulan.
Back to Khev, he's not as bad as D'Tan, but same kind of character, and it's all not very Romulan, at least the Romulan from the shows.
Says the slim, busty captain.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
And all most of us ever saw of the Romulans in the shows were military and Tal Shiar types. Outside the navy and state sec we saw only a few politicians and no ordinary civilians at all.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yes, he's a bit insubordinate, and doesn't really know when to shut up. It's almost as if he's just some jumped-up groundside mechanic who escaped a disaster with you once. Oh, wait...
Oh, and you can complain about what skills you think Khev lacks - all I know is, since I gave him that bat'leth, he's been frigging unstoppable. In a couple of combats, he was last man standing, and revived everyone else at the end.
Oh! SNAP!!!
QFT
I find his willingness to buy into the Republics doctrine of it being ok to pretty much get absorbed into the Klingon/Federation governments armies un-romulan. Now no two romulans are the same, I get that but they are a independent culture. We Need to be able to pick and dismiss crew as we see fit. It doesn't matter if it's Federation, Klingon or Klingomulan/Federomulan-Republic.:P
I can have a boff that can juggle 10 lightsabers at the same time, bring balance to the force, and single handedly seal the rift in the Medusa cascade. but if I don't like him/her away they go.
Now they got the Klingon and Federation Boff stories right. they complement your character but it doesn't feel like it's their world and you're just there for the ride. Which for the many things the romulan republic story-line gets right and believe me theres a lot of awesome things they did. they over developed him. The story focuses more on Tovan then your character.
[/SIGPIC]
An interesting point which I am more than happy to concede. I guess where I'm coming from is that what canon we have establishes this Romulan 'culture' if you will, certain truisms about the species, and D'Tan and to a lesser extent Khev goes against that. It's like finding some friendly, nonxenophobic Tholians, everything we know from Trek about the species suggests otherwise and it'd be very strange to see them, but maybe there are some friendly Tholians out there too, but nonetheless they're the exception not the rule and I want to play the rule and not the special snowflake exception.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
Hmm, delusions. Sela returns with that force there will be no history written. The iconians see humans and romulans as too unstable for use to them so they are food for the elachi. They would eradicate all unusable slave races and bring the other to heel rebuilding the iconian home world and serving their 'betters'.
Besides, to be a proper romulan victory you need to bring ruin to the dreams of those that oppose you. Like getting a reman to deposit a bit of red matter in Vulcan with records of him working with D'tan. The ensuing chaos from this would destroy re-unification and tear down the 'jewel' of new Romulus before D'tan's eyes leaving him begging for death.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Highlight black text; (sorry for the spoiler, no real way to hide it.) You go on a side quest to rescue his sister, but once you do... nothing happens. Very disappointing.
Maybe if they gave us a choice of 3 different boffs, each with their own story.
Vice Admiral Janeway would disagree with you. The only reason they're attacking again is because SPOILER the Iconians attacked them and made them think we did it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
On the other hand I really like Elisa Flores. I dismissed and recommisioned her a few times ... just because I can.
This is why we have the option to give them biographies, a name, and personalised outfit. One of my favourite aspects of the game.
@jodarkrider please use the anti-necron device :P