That theory is fine for a little bit... but not really working after a few levels(months)... Also just because you like him mouthing off doesnt mean everyone does/will. He wants to get mouthy on my ship he can exit via the nearest airlock, Ill even provide an EVA suit. Some of my own issues with his dialogue would at least be diminished if you were given decent dialogue responses like 'Shut up Tovan.' or 'Your opinion is noted.' maybe 'One more word from you and Ill have you mounted on the next transphasic torpedo I fire!' but no we get 'continue'
Apart from the Tal'Shiar and other such organizations (and note that the Tal'Shiar is not a military organization, but a "civilian" one), it is an officer's duty to question orders, and even to blatantly disobey any unjust order. telbasta is right on the money with this:
I rather like that Tovan speaks his mind in that way, and even that he is insubordinate at times, because it makes for an good first officer - he's there to constantly challenge your morals and conscience and make sure you're doing what's best for the entire crew.
As much as some of you imagine you would like to be in the Tal'Shiar, if that situation were to be actualized, you'd be even more annoyed, because then you would have even fewer choices. You'd take what your superiors gave you or you would be the one mounted on the torpedo.
Personally I like Tovan and have no problems with him in the Romulan storyline. That's changed lately though now that I'm leveling up a Feddy alt.....
We were on Nimbus when I get this hail from my cute little Andorian tac officer and she was, well, her voice, it was Tovan's. He's in my head, he's stalking me! I dunno, kinda creepy if you ask me.
But other than that, Tovan's just fine, for a stalker.
The problem has never really been about Tovan himself, just the fact that you are stuck with him if you don't want him.
Some people are fine with just ignoring him but a LOT of people aren't. If the option was there to ditch him like any other boff when his story was done, then nearly no one would have a problem with him.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Personally I like Tovan and have no problems with him in the Romulan storyline. That's changed lately though now that I'm leveling up a Feddy alt.....
We were on Nimbus when I get this hail from my cute little Andorian tac officer and she was, well, her voice, it was Tovan's. He's in my head, he's stalking me! I dunno, kinda creepy if you ask me.
But other than that, Tovan's just fine, for a stalker.
Personally I like Tovan and have no problems with him in the Romulan storyline. That's changed lately though now that I'm leveling up a Feddy alt.....
We were on Nimbus when I get this hail from my cute little Andorian tac officer and she was, well, her voice, it was Tovan's. He's in my head, he's stalking me! I dunno, kinda creepy if you ask me.
But other than that, Tovan's just fine, for a stalker.
Tovan's Theme Song? I'll leave it unnamed for the moment but YES I have to agree with the sentiment that Tovan's a stalker and worse.
"If you knew my infinite charm
Thered be no reason to be so alarmed
Maybe Im wrong maybe Im right
Maybe Im some kind of lunatic
You say Im wasting all of my time
But I know what to do with it
It is plain as black and white"
Tovan's Theme Song? I'll leave it unnamed for the moment but YES I have to agree with the sentiment that Tovan's a stalker and worse.
"If you knew my infinite charm
Thered be no reason to be so alarmed
Maybe Im wrong maybe Im right
Maybe Im some kind of lunatic
You say Im wasting all of my time
But I know what to do with it
It is plain as black and white"
I would suggest rather, and in response to your suggestion:
"You may be right
I may be crazy
Whoa, but it just may be a lunatic you're lookin' for
It's too late to fight
It's too late to change me
You may be wrong for all I know
But you may be right"
I wouldn't hate Tovan so much if he was OPTIONAL. I'm perfectly fine with players having the option to keep him as a bridge officer.
I just HATE it when developers force players to keep anything (team member, ship, or even an inventory item) in a MMORPG.
The entire nature of games like STO is that you get to create "your" story within a fictional universe. When developers force you to keep someone or something in "your" story that you don't want it can ruin the game play experience for many people.
How would you feel if you were forced to permanently leave the Galaxy class in one of your ship slots and you couldn't dismiss that ship ... and sometimes even when you're using a different ship the Galaxy class randomly appears as your ship in cutscenes and in-game play?
So, no matter what you do you're stuck with the Galaxy class ... period.
Sure, some people love the Galaxy class and would be fine with that ... but what about all the people who don't like the Galaxy class in this game?
Bottom line, I don't really HATE the character of Tovan ... but I absolutely HATE the way the devs currently force players to keep him around.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Apart from the Tal'Shiar and other such organizations (and note that the Tal'Shiar is not a military organization, but a "civilian" one), it is an officer's duty to question orders, and even to blatantly disobey any unjust order. telbasta is right on the money with this:
As much as some of you imagine you would like to be in the Tal'Shiar, if that situation were to be actualized, you'd be even more annoyed, because then you would have even fewer choices. You'd take what your superiors gave you or you would be the one mounted on the torpedo.
Questioning is fine but even Picard told Riker to STFU more than once. I want my dialogue option to tell Tovan to stfu in varying levels of polite/impolite/rage they all have the same effect as the 'continue' button but make you feel just a hair better
Questioning is fine but even Picard told Riker to STFU more than once. I want my dialogue option to tell Tovan to stfu in varying levels of polite/impolite/rage they all have the same effect as the 'continue' button but make you feel just a hair better
Personally I want to have a chance to say. "Tovan, ready room." and take him out of ear shot of the crew and read him the riot act. Or if this fails to impress him, repain the room with his fresh head wounds.
The area where you find a derelict cardassian ship he crossed the line from giving an alternate suggestion to disrespect. "<sigh> Captain we don't even know what happened."
And you get to say that maybe some of your ships met such a fate as a reply? Satra should say that if we are going with crew giving alternate scenarios.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Questioning is fine but even Picard told Riker to STFU more than once. I want my dialogue option to tell Tovan to stfu in varying levels of polite/impolite/rage they all have the same effect as the 'continue' button but make you feel just a hair better
I kinda do... How many missions are there where Khev objects to your course of action but you do it anyways? Um... a lot.
I thought it was pretty cool to get a purple first officer right away but then I learned how the game works... with the crew I have now I have no room for him but he just won't go away.
I get a Will Riker vibe every time I listen to Tovan. That's what made Riker such an interesting guy in TNG. He told the captain what he thought of his ideas every time it counted, and Picard was smart enough to know not to take a heavy handed approach to "keeping his first officer in line". Why? Because he knew that Riker was right most of the time.
Unfortunately others get a Will Riker from "These are the Voyages" vibe from Tovan Khev. Rather than a TNG vibe.
I don't really get the hate for his 'attitude' even when I do kind of get the hate for being forced to have him on your ship. It adds a little bit of variety to the proceedings, and I actually grew to like his tendency to butt in to give his own opinion and suggestions, and would like for the other Rommie 'plot' Boffs or even the unique ones like the Jemmy or the Breen to do so as well. Between that and the storyline it gives your ship and crew more of a Blake's 7/Lexx/Farscape feel than the 'you're in the army nao!' feel the other factions have, which is all kinds of boring and bland for some of us. And, well, the rest of you already have the Feddies and the Klinks if you want to be in the 'yes, ma'am' space army.
I'll probably get my Rommie to use that mysterious alien carrier ship once it is available even if it's all kinds of fail just to scratch that 'outlaws and fugitives run away from and fight against an evil space empire on a comandeered alien ship' itch, and it would just not work at all without Tovan being, well, Tovan.
I don't really get the hate for his 'attitude' even when I do kind of get the hate for being forced to have him on your ship. It adds a little bit of variety to the proceedings, and I actually grew to like his tendency to butt in to give his own opinion and suggestions, and would like for the other Rommie 'plot' Boffs or even the unique ones like the Jemmy or the Breen to do so as well.
It would be nice if all BoFFs were as vocal as he is, that way at least they all have some personality during the missions. Just like in the ST TV shows and movies...you have the serious one, the wisecracker, the smartass, the wise one and so on. But we end up with an all in one package with Tovan so everytime he speaks it's like "seriously Tovan...just shut up".
He's just intrusive...even if you remove him from your BoFF lineup because thats your normal habit, you still get buggy BoFF messages (the male andorian placeholder head for example). And though you have grown to like his tendency to give opinions and suggestions, thats one aspect of Tovan that i hate. I personally think his dialogue and actions are poorly written. His suggestions at times seem heavy handed, is that the right word? maybe it's cause i was prior service...and we always made sure to voice our suggestions or recommendations in such a way that it doesnt sound like we were ordering our superior around. I know this is only science fiction but still...
On a side note, i've gotten so fed up with him that i named one of my ships the R.R.W. Shut up Tovan
Personally I like the guy, not so much for the character himself but for the fact that he actually has a background, personality, and opinions.
My Fed and KDF boffs are just... drones. They dont really have any substantial personality to them, they're all essentially the same. I'm really enjoying the fact that, with the Romulan storyline, I get a crew that has some sense of meaning and unity.
The story is something I think worked out great, too. Fed and KDF are just kinda thrown out there, KDF at least got some kind of minor storyline to follow with the Fek'lhri thing, but feds dont really have any flow to them, feels like you're just going from one random unrelated mission to the next. The romulans seem to have been designed more along the lines of an actual RPG, which I'm loving.
There's nothing wrong with the guy...but why is he forced onto us?
If the Devs want him there, for some reason, why not make him a permanent part of your ships?
He can be placed on the bridge and even offer DOff missions if you decide to cut him from active BOff duty.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
If he was given his own BOFF slot, instead of taking up one of the ones you build your crew off of, I wouldn't have a problem with keeping Khev... but having to have him effectively reduces my BOFF options by one slot.
So, if I have Khev, but still have the same available slots I would have at that rank, as a UFP or KDF, I'd be ok with it... but I always have 1 less, because I have to have Khev take up one of the slots, whether I want him or not.
Just a thought about him. But by being not only forced/required but the fore front of the romulan missions. It damages replay value. First time I went through Fed I kept my initial andorain. Still have her on that AV too. Each one after has let her go and gone with a different theme crew. Tovan gives you one theme and pattern to follow.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
As far as your signature goes, McCain was not onboard the USS Enterprise when it had a fire off Vietnam, but he did serve on her when she was deployed to the Med. And McCain was not responsible for the fire on the USS Forrestal, his jets engine was pointed off the ship so there is no way the claimed "wet start" could have had any effect on any other aircraft....
I finally managed to afford to replace my Reman Engineer, Touan Kheu, with a Romulan, Toban Kheb. Now I just need to get a good screenshot of the crew of the RRW Tovan Khev II...
I like Tovan. He's well written, he has background, he's useful.
Unfortunately, he's identical in every other Rom crew. And he's permanently occupying one BOFF slot. And that's probably why all the hate.
Now, if he was handled in a more elastic way. Like player being able to set his name and surname (also name for his sibling), and write his biography, then it would be more bearable for some players.
Story itself would remain the same, but now he could be tailored to player's liking.
I think that he's permanent because devs have something further planned with him.
Tovan does not fit in with the rest of my crew.
Tovan is on permanent latrine duty.
Tovan keeps promoting himself to First Officer, Head of Tactical and Security.
Tovan sits on my bridge - there is no latrine station on my bridge.
I hate Tovan, and want him off my ship.
I let Tovan beam to the surface of Nimbus III (hoping to sell him to the Orions) with my away team. This is what he wore.
If people don't like him then don't...but some people are reacting like it's game breaking to have him...it's just one boff slot. I suppose for you though it's game braking to not have a full slim and busty ground crew...
I think that story oriented BOFFs are a good idea. MMOs tends to have very "dry" storylines and NPC like Tovan are adding to variety.
If devs indeed wants to add more story BOFFs, it's a good idea. I also understand why the can't be dismissed from the crew.
Another reasonable idea would be to make story BOFFs not counting toward your BOFF slots AND to make their dialogues truggering only when they're in your station/away team slots. If they aren't slotted, their story would be replaced with generic dialog options.
Like it's done when playing through Elachii storyline with Fed/KDF crew.
Actually, if Tovan and his sister were editable also in terms of names (BOFF skills can be retrained anyway) and biography, and unslottedf rom stoty, probably nobody would mind having Tovan in his crew.
I still like him. Though, I do understand why people are upset.
Comments
Apart from the Tal'Shiar and other such organizations (and note that the Tal'Shiar is not a military organization, but a "civilian" one), it is an officer's duty to question orders, and even to blatantly disobey any unjust order. telbasta is right on the money with this:
As much as some of you imagine you would like to be in the Tal'Shiar, if that situation were to be actualized, you'd be even more annoyed, because then you would have even fewer choices. You'd take what your superiors gave you or you would be the one mounted on the torpedo.
We were on Nimbus when I get this hail from my cute little Andorian tac officer and she was, well, her voice, it was Tovan's. He's in my head, he's stalking me! I dunno, kinda creepy if you ask me.
But other than that, Tovan's just fine, for a stalker.
Some people are fine with just ignoring him but a LOT of people aren't. If the option was there to ditch him like any other boff when his story was done, then nearly no one would have a problem with him.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
My character Tsin'xing
Tovan's Theme Song? I'll leave it unnamed for the moment but YES I have to agree with the sentiment that Tovan's a stalker and worse.
"If you knew my infinite charm
Thered be no reason to be so alarmed
Maybe Im wrong maybe Im right
Maybe Im some kind of lunatic
You say Im wasting all of my time
But I know what to do with it
It is plain as black and white"
I would suggest rather, and in response to your suggestion:
"You may be right
I may be crazy
Whoa, but it just may be a lunatic you're lookin' for
It's too late to fight
It's too late to change me
You may be wrong for all I know
But you may be right"
I just HATE it when developers force players to keep anything (team member, ship, or even an inventory item) in a MMORPG.
The entire nature of games like STO is that you get to create "your" story within a fictional universe. When developers force you to keep someone or something in "your" story that you don't want it can ruin the game play experience for many people.
How would you feel if you were forced to permanently leave the Galaxy class in one of your ship slots and you couldn't dismiss that ship ... and sometimes even when you're using a different ship the Galaxy class randomly appears as your ship in cutscenes and in-game play?
So, no matter what you do you're stuck with the Galaxy class ... period.
Sure, some people love the Galaxy class and would be fine with that ... but what about all the people who don't like the Galaxy class in this game?
Bottom line, I don't really HATE the character of Tovan ... but I absolutely HATE the way the devs currently force players to keep him around.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Questioning is fine but even Picard told Riker to STFU more than once. I want my dialogue option to tell Tovan to stfu in varying levels of polite/impolite/rage they all have the same effect as the 'continue' button but make you feel just a hair better
Personally I want to have a chance to say. "Tovan, ready room." and take him out of ear shot of the crew and read him the riot act. Or if this fails to impress him, repain the room with his fresh head wounds.
The area where you find a derelict cardassian ship he crossed the line from giving an alternate suggestion to disrespect. "<sigh> Captain we don't even know what happened."
And you get to say that maybe some of your ships met such a fate as a reply? Satra should say that if we are going with crew giving alternate scenarios.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
My character Tsin'xing
Unfortunately others get a Will Riker from "These are the Voyages" vibe from Tovan Khev. Rather than a TNG vibe.
I'll probably get my Rommie to use that mysterious alien carrier ship once it is available even if it's all kinds of fail just to scratch that 'outlaws and fugitives run away from and fight against an evil space empire on a comandeered alien ship' itch, and it would just not work at all without Tovan being, well, Tovan.
system Lord Baal is dead
My character Tsin'xing
system Lord Baal is dead
It would be nice if all BoFFs were as vocal as he is, that way at least they all have some personality during the missions. Just like in the ST TV shows and movies...you have the serious one, the wisecracker, the smartass, the wise one and so on. But we end up with an all in one package with Tovan so everytime he speaks it's like "seriously Tovan...just shut up".
He's just intrusive...even if you remove him from your BoFF lineup because thats your normal habit, you still get buggy BoFF messages (the male andorian placeholder head for example). And though you have grown to like his tendency to give opinions and suggestions, thats one aspect of Tovan that i hate. I personally think his dialogue and actions are poorly written. His suggestions at times seem heavy handed, is that the right word? maybe it's cause i was prior service...and we always made sure to voice our suggestions or recommendations in such a way that it doesnt sound like we were ordering our superior around. I know this is only science fiction but still...
On a side note, i've gotten so fed up with him that i named one of my ships the R.R.W. Shut up Tovan
There's nothing wrong with the guy...but why is he forced onto us?
If the Devs want him there, for some reason, why not make him a permanent part of your ships?
He can be placed on the bridge and even offer DOff missions if you decide to cut him from active BOff duty.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
So, if I have Khev, but still have the same available slots I would have at that rank, as a UFP or KDF, I'd be ok with it... but I always have 1 less, because I have to have Khev take up one of the slots, whether I want him or not.
-- Smoov
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
As much as you want him gone, he's there to stay, no matter what you do...
All I want is an entirely Reman crew for my ship, and Tovan gets in the way.
Unfortunately, he's identical in every other Rom crew. And he's permanently occupying one BOFF slot. And that's probably why all the hate.
Now, if he was handled in a more elastic way. Like player being able to set his name and surname (also name for his sibling), and write his biography, then it would be more bearable for some players.
Story itself would remain the same, but now he could be tailored to player's liking.
I think that he's permanent because devs have something further planned with him.
"Tovan gets forced upon us."
What they mean;
"I can't populate my ship with only large breasted Bridge Bunnies"
I kinda like Tovan...but that outfit made me lol
If people don't like him then don't...but some people are reacting like it's game breaking to have him...it's just one boff slot. I suppose for you though it's game braking to not have a full slim and busty ground crew...
If devs indeed wants to add more story BOFFs, it's a good idea. I also understand why the can't be dismissed from the crew.
Another reasonable idea would be to make story BOFFs not counting toward your BOFF slots AND to make their dialogues truggering only when they're in your station/away team slots. If they aren't slotted, their story would be replaced with generic dialog options.
Like it's done when playing through Elachii storyline with Fed/KDF crew.
Actually, if Tovan and his sister were editable also in terms of names (BOFF skills can be retrained anyway) and biography, and unslottedf rom stoty, probably nobody would mind having Tovan in his crew.
I still like him. Though, I do understand why people are upset.