I actually play as Science all the time. My son is Engineer and we both find Tactical to be boring, everything is too easy as a Tactical. You should have seen Science before the ground revamp. None of our abilities did any damage, lol, even the volcano one(the radiation was 5 damage, the volcano was 24 IIRC. And we all had much more HP so 24 was less than pathetic, players got hurt worse by stubbing their toe.). And Orbital Strike did only 50 damage or so, it was called Orbital Tickle by the players.
Although, on a side note, Science holds actually worked back then, so you could use Stasis Field, Sensor Scan, Nanites, Tachyon Harmonic, Radiation, then attack with weapons because they were held.
That's what I've been hearing. Unfortunately, it sounds like Cryptic never rebalanced ships after the skill revamp. Assuming passive skills/consoles balance each other out, i.e., Graviton Generators v. Inertial Dampeners (an assumption I'm not sure is true), the fewer number of weapon slots for science ships is never addressed. Sensor Scan doesn't compensate for the loss in DPS as it takes too long to build up to make a difference without adequate holds/slows (and maxes out at 10%) and Subsystem Targeting is rendered effectively useless by the many ways to counter it. (Nor do the various Science abilities that use Exotic Particle damage make up for the deficit given their low damage output and limited time to employ them without adequate holds/slows.)
I won't go into Captain abilities since this thread is ostensibly about ships except to say that Science ships seemed designed to rely more on Science Captain abilities than other types of ships so nerfing those abilities makes a bad situation even worse, especially when you hit end game.
In fairness to the PvPers who have posted in this thread, my pvp sci/sci build is designed with the intention of disabling the target for long enough for a team-mate to destroy it or disrupt the player long enough for me to destroy them, something I can do quite well. My PvE build is less fantastic due to the lacking CCing power of CC and the pvp build is plain useless in all pve due to the lack of AI... well intelligence, give them some skills, the AI to USE them and remove immunity to sci powers and my pvp build would feel right at home in pve as well.
Sadly that will never happen so, devs, can we please have our CC skills actually CC? Pwease? Pretty please?
I think they nerfed science ships because that's what they are science ships. Tech ships with low attack but high support. the cruiser to be tank class and escorts to deal out the damage. I do not think they dev want and attack class science ship. what i think your requesting may never happen. the most aggressive science ship to date is the vesta.
Take your three "hero" ships, and the fleet variety of them, so the highest stats they have.
You have your fleet tactical escort retorfit, 33K hull, 4/3 Weapons, .9 Shield modifier.
Your Fleet exploration cruiser retrofit, 44K hull, 4/4 Weapons, 1.1 Shield modifier
Your Fleet long range science vesssel retrofit, 29.7K Hull, 3/3 Weapons. 1.43 Shield modifier.
So if you exclude the powers and seating of Boffs, and the way the consoles are which in most cases nobody has a problem with the console set-ups.
The ships are very different. In most cases my Intrepid pops long before my Escort. And thats with tossing heals left and right on the Intrepid. Also i have one of each type of toon and i fly ALL my ships on them - my ENG cause romulans dont get high end fed ships (working on a fed eng for more testing)
All that being said Before powers even come into play science ships are at a disadvantage. Most of them are pretty big ships, or if not big at least decent sized.
So if they hooked up SOME science ships with more weapons they could fall a little in line with the other ships.
I mean come on, Galaxy has 4/4 but the Nebula doesn't? its basically only missing the neck. and not to bring canon to a videogame fight BUT voyager has 6 frikkin weapons on the front. I think she could at least get a 4/3.
That is all.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think they nerfed science ships because that's what they are science ships. Tech ships with low attack but high support. the cruiser to be tank class and escorts to deal out the damage. I do not think they dev want and attack class science ship. what i think your requesting may never happen. the most aggressive science ship to date is the vesta.
They nerfed Science because Science abilities used to do a lot of damage so you had Tac officers flying in Science ships doing just insane amounts of damage and they got it nerfed.
Problem is they went way overboard and now Science abilities do no damage and no real support. This game is based around DPS...Escorts can obviously do great DPS, with the right build Cruisers can do great DPS, Science on the other hand can't.
I'm not asking for some Science ship that is more powerful than the Vesta if that's what you're thinking. The Vesta...is a wanna-be Escort that is the size of a Cruiser...I like the Vesta but she is pretty much trying to be almost anything but a Science ship.
I want Science ships to get some attention and same with Science abilities, they deserve some love...and not some secondary deflector gimmick that only helps Sci ships.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
The fate of Science Ships is tied with the SCI BOFF abilities that they can use alot of.
Nobody complains about the damage output of ships with high TAC BOFF stations.
Nobody complains about the survivability and support capable of ships with high ENG BOFF stations.
Ships slanted in these flavors perform in what they were obviously designed for.
Science Ships on the other hand underperform because they're tied to the heavy Science BOFF stations that stack up on underwhelming Science abilities. Failing that, they have great 3/3 weapon slots and lower hulls on average than Escorts.
Here's a better question: where's the love for science abilities? With so many consoles granting what have traditionally been science powers' effects, borked resists making many abilities ineffective, and the lack of group content that really *needs* science ships on the team, there's precious little reason to fly those many wonderful ships you just listed.
That's actually where my outrage comes from. There's a ton of new consoles each with a skill that mimics science skills and often they work tons better then the science skill they mimic! then we have skills on the singularity cores of any and all romulan ships. We've offered suggestions like for a very long time now, no indication that anyone is even concerned about science skills and it's not just the space skills either, Doffs that say they do certain things on the science ground slots do not function I myself have posted about these bugs and haven't received any indication that anyone even cares much less knows about the problems.
My question is where is the love for the sci skills?
Why does my repulsor beam push back ships like mad crazy when i have exactly 0 in grav but 168 in particle gen but hardly does any damage?
Why don't TR and GW actually cut the power of engines or hold enemies in place when i have 170 or so in Grav Gen?
Why are there Doffs that give major upgrades to both engineering and tactical space skills but almost nothing acceptable in science to help improve damage output?
And will anything be done about these problems when a science focused captain's tale becomes the next major update, Voyager?
Will we get equipable tricorders? Will sci ships get two slots for deflectors? Will the doff skills be expanded to include more enhancements (like causing engine power cutoff with TR or holding enemies in place with GW) or will these skills actually get fixed? Will the ground Doffs like botanists actually get fixed where they actually share their buff with everyone on both Dolv and Mez? Will the chance to beam down a nurse actually work as well and as often as the tacticals ability to summon whole armies of security escorts?
I'd really like to know because Janeway was a scientist first and foremost, sure she had to use tactical maneuvers but science was her focus.
That's what I've been hearing. Unfortunately, it sounds like Cryptic never rebalanced ships after the skill revamp. Assuming passive skills/consoles balance each other out, i.e., Graviton Generators v. Inertial Dampeners (an assumption I'm not sure is true), the fewer number of weapon slots for science ships is never addressed. Sensor Scan doesn't compensate for the loss in DPS as it takes too long to build up to make a difference without adequate holds/slows (and maxes out at 10%) and Subsystem Targeting is rendered effectively useless by the many ways to counter it. (Nor do the various Science abilities that use Exotic Particle damage make up for the deficit given their low damage output and limited time to employ them without adequate holds/slows.)
I won't go into Captain abilities since this thread is ostensibly about ships except to say that Science ships seemed designed to rely more on Science Captain abilities than other types of ships so nerfing those abilities makes a bad situation even worse, especially when you hit end game.
I agree with everything (my only toon is a Vulcan Engineer). I like flying science ships (I've flown escorts and cruisers as well), my former two ships are an Atrox and a Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (Aventine Class). I got tired of depending on my pets to help me do DPS, so I tried out the cheap Mirror Universe Star Cruiser.
:eek: My Mirror Universe Star Cruiser does three times the damage of my Atrox & Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (Aventine Class). I was just shocked at how fast, maneuverable and invincible my cruiser is. I almost don't want to go back to a science ship, instead I'd rather focus on Engineering and Tac because the Science abilities don't do much. During STF's my science ships were used as Crowd control for the Tactical and Crusier ships.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
I agree with everything (my only toon is a Vulcan Engineer). I like flying science ships (I've flown escorts and cruisers as well), my former two ships are an Atrox and a Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (Aventine Class). I got tired of depending on my pets to help me do DPS, so I tried out the cheap Mirror Universe Star Cruiser.
:eek: My Mirror Universe Star Cruiser does three times the damage of my Atrox & Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (Aventine Class). I was just shocked at how fast, maneuverable and invincible my cruiser is. I almost don't want to go back to a science ship, instead I'd rather focus on Engineering and Tac because the Science abilities don't do much. During STF's my science ships were used as Crowd control for the Tactical and Crusier ships.
Part of the reason for your good fortune with cruisers is you're an engineer, I noticed it on mine, apparently engineers get extra resistance than other classes on their ships despite the kind of ship so your science ship even with the trouble you're having is way better experience then science captains on their science ships because you have added resist.
Part of the reason for your good fortune with cruisers is you're an engineer, I noticed it on mine, apparently engineers get extra resistance than other classes on their ships despite the kind of ship so your science ship even with the trouble you're having is way better experience then science captains on their science ships because you have added resist.
I didn't know that. But thank you for educating me. I don't think I will go back to a science ship because the Star Cruiser is so good. Even though many people have stated how crappy the mirror universe ships are, this one has handed out more snack downs than my previous 3 ships combined in a shorter amount of time.
I'm going to do the vault mission so that I can have the 50 scorpion fighters (in my device slot). Just encase I get "in over my head" I can launch them for a little help.
side note: I wish all cruisers had a hangar slot. Because technically they all do have roundabouts and other smaller ships on board.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Since you enjoy the Star Cruiser, you may want to consider one of the Odyssey ships. The tactical version comes with a console that lets you launch an escort fighter pet every four minutes.
Since you enjoy the Star Cruiser, you may want to consider one of the Odyssey ships. The tactical version comes with a console that lets you launch an escort fighter pet every four minutes.
Testimony that Cruisers are in much better shape than Science ships eh?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Don't read so much into it. Very slightly less sucky is far from much better.
Anything in the game is much better than Science! I don't see how Cruisers can complain about anything other than not having cannons which doesn't seem to matter much when you can break 10k or in some cases 20k dps with beams.
Cruisers are in a much better place than Science is by far, even if a Sci ship had the slots to run A2B it would just kill everything Science on the ship.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I am beginning to love Science Vessels again! I can go AFK in STFs and nobody notices, lol.
lol...that was mean but funny. I used to play a lot of STF (and still do) with my science ships. All I was good for was Graviton Well. It was like soon as everyone saw that, they came rushing in to kill whatever was just about to escape the well. Then they return to fighting Borg spheres.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Then just spam everything regardless of what it is, if it auto heals spam it even more.
All that just to not suck, when you could just go to the shipyard and pick up a common, not zen store, not lockbox), ordinary, everyday escort with white gear. Still think there's someone at Cryptic not flying escorts?
All that just to not suck, when you could just go to the shipyard and pick up a common, not zen store, not lockbox), ordinary, everyday escort with white gear. Still think there's someone at Cryptic not flying escorts?
IKR, I don't suck in my cruiser, at least not by my definition, I run dual aux2damp (using 1 doff) and use 2 lvl 1 EPtX powers, I even use tetryon beams, I find I'm jsut as mobile (if not more so) have more defence and still put out 6 or 7k DPS without spamming FAW and APB on things that auto regenerate.
Testimony that Cruisers are in much better shape than Science ships eh?
So you decide to judge how effective Science ships are by comparing them against a cruiser with a launching gimmick?
I really don't know what to say. So, I suppose I will reiterate for the third time.
Science powers are not weaker than Tactical powers.
Science ships are not "less useful" or "less effective" than escorts or any other type of vessel.
If a player effectively combines good ship equipment, right choices of science abilities, right kind of weapons and apt skill at executing coordinated attacks, the Science ship is just as effective, if not more effective, than the escort.
It really boils down to that. You can't examine one part of a system, isolate it and say "It sucks!", because it is part of a system. By itself it is weak, but who would fly with only science powers and no spec or weapons?
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
There have been a lot more than 3 science ships since free to play launch... here's a list of T5 ships with commander-level science BOFF stations that have come out since F2P...
A good number of those are Fleet ships, you can exclude those for me. I may be the rare gamer that doesn't particularly like joining guilds, or fleets for that matter. Joining these things, at least in my experience forces you to play the game the way others perceive is the way you should play it.
You are no longer free to make up your own mind, experiment, and find what works best for you, and your game. But, must grind endlessly for the promise of items that you may not even get because your leader decides you didn't do enough, and kicks you from that same fleet, or guild you burnt the midnight oil for.
It takes the fun out of what draws characters like me to games like this in the first place. You can blame WoW for that. I'll never do it again.
The variety of science ships right now is fine. The problem is most sci abilities are pure garbage. Having said that, there are some sci builds that work extremely well.
The variety of science ships right now is fine. The problem is most sci abilities are pure garbage. Having said that, there are some sci builds that work extremely well.
Only when considered and used just by themselves, with no buffs or weapons to augment their damage or specific purpose.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
All that just to not suck, when you could just go to the shipyard and pick up a common, not zen store, not lockbox), ordinary, everyday escort with white gear. Still think there's someone at Cryptic not flying escorts?
With that you get 4-5k DPS and that's it. Also escorts are actually much harder to fly to their maximum effectiveness than a beam boat. I can easily reach that with white gear in many cruisers too with a simple Dragon build. What do you consider "not sucking"? I get the impression you don't know too much about the mechanics of the game beyond hitting space bar and killing npcs. Did you ever use a combat parser?
If a player effectively combines good ship equipment, right choices of science abilities, right kind of weapons and apt skill at executing coordinated attacks, the Science ship is just as effective, if not more effective, than the escort.
If you consider using all abilities that you have to be able to catch 2 probes before they reach a gate or transformer "maximum effectiveness", then I guess Science ships are fine sure... :rolleyes: Of course a great pilot will still outdo most average players even in Science ships, but I really have to wonder how you define maximum effectiveness... Healing someone's shield for 2k hitpoints or draining a cube's energy by 35 is in no universe as effective and useful to the team as another escort tearing up things with 15k DPS.
So you decide to judge how effective Science ships are by comparing them against a cruiser with a launching gimmick?
I really don't know what to say. So, I suppose I will reiterate for the third time.
Science powers are not weaker than Tactical powers.
Science ships are not "less useful" or "less effective" than escorts or any other type of vessel.
If a player effectively combines good ship equipment, right choices of science abilities, right kind of weapons and apt skill at executing coordinated attacks, the Science ship is just as effective, if not more effective, than the escort.
It really boils down to that. You can't examine one part of a system, isolate it and say "It sucks!", because it is part of a system. By itself it is weak, but who would fly with only science powers and no spec or weapons?
You're fighting a losing battle in trying to claim that Cruisers have it as bad as Science. I don't know what universe you're living in but Science powers are weak and ineffective in this one.
In PvE they're useless...Science abilities are easily overcome or simply just don't affect for long enough to mean anything. In PvP you can build a very specific build but even then you might need support to finish the job.
You want to talk about weapons? Fine...Science ships have 6...the lowest amount...want to talk about Tactical slots on them...most Science ships are extremely limited on Tactical boff slots.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
You're fighting a losing battle in trying to claim that Cruisers have it as bad as Science. I don't know what universe you're living in but Science powers are weak and ineffective in this one.
In PvE they're useless...Science abilities are easily overcome or simply just don't affect for long enough to mean anything. In PvP you can build a very specific build but even then you might need support to finish the job.
You want to talk about weapons? Fine...Science ships have 6...the lowest amount...want to talk about Tactical slots on them...most Science ships are extremely limited on Tactical boff slots.
"I don't know what universe you're living in". The PvP universe, and the PvE universe. The universe where science ships like the Fleet Nova I pilot on my Sci character is just as effective as an escort, with no set gear. The universe where Science damage is joined with weapons and a synergy forms between myself, the equipment and the weapons on my Science ships.
PvE? Okay. Grav well + Iso charge + Tractor beam + Beam overload + Sensor scan + Tactical Team + EPtA + Transphasic cluster torpedo + Transphasic compressors. Try it on a Nanite Probe or Cube in CSE.
PvP: You are part of a team anyways, the team healer should be supporting you regardless of what ship you fly. Everyone knows this.
Yes, I want to talk weapons. 6 weapon slots filled with Transphasic Cluster Torpedoes, transphasic mines and a beam array or two. Shield penetrating damage of 40% plus Projectile Weapons Specialization and torpedo consoles. Add in a DPB and Tactical Team, and you have a ship that, in conjunction with the science powers, can kill a ship without taking the shields down.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here, lianthelia. It's clear to me your knowledge of PvP isn't thorough, and you insist on isolating one section of a synergistic style of gameplay and criticizing it, simply because it itself doesn't compare to an escort. I'm not sure what you intend to prove with such a foolish basis.
As for cruisers and science vessels... Cruisers have it worse than Science vessels, since their method of damage (pressure damage) is largely made obsolete in the "DPS race" this game's PvE has become. Cruisers are effectively team support ships now.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
You're fighting a losing battle in trying to claim that Cruisers have it as bad as Science. I don't know what universe you're living in but Science powers are weak and ineffective in this one.
In PvE they're useless...Science abilities are easily overcome or simply just don't affect for long enough to mean anything. In PvP you can build a very specific build but even then you might need support to finish the job.
You want to talk about weapons? Fine...Science ships have 6...the lowest amount...want to talk about Tactical slots on them...most Science ships are extremely limited on Tactical boff slots.
All true.
I've had dev responses tell me that they can't improve Garvity Well due to engine limitations.
When LoR was in testing, I advocated for a Science trait that would have reduced the speed of any ship caught in a control power by 50% (GW, TR, TB, TBR, etc.) but instead we got the ability to reduce the CD on Photonic Fail Fleet.
Comments
That's what I've been hearing. Unfortunately, it sounds like Cryptic never rebalanced ships after the skill revamp. Assuming passive skills/consoles balance each other out, i.e., Graviton Generators v. Inertial Dampeners (an assumption I'm not sure is true), the fewer number of weapon slots for science ships is never addressed. Sensor Scan doesn't compensate for the loss in DPS as it takes too long to build up to make a difference without adequate holds/slows (and maxes out at 10%) and Subsystem Targeting is rendered effectively useless by the many ways to counter it. (Nor do the various Science abilities that use Exotic Particle damage make up for the deficit given their low damage output and limited time to employ them without adequate holds/slows.)
I won't go into Captain abilities since this thread is ostensibly about ships except to say that Science ships seemed designed to rely more on Science Captain abilities than other types of ships so nerfing those abilities makes a bad situation even worse, especially when you hit end game.
Sadly that will never happen so, devs, can we please have our CC skills actually CC? Pwease? Pretty please?
Take your three "hero" ships, and the fleet variety of them, so the highest stats they have.
You have your fleet tactical escort retorfit, 33K hull, 4/3 Weapons, .9 Shield modifier.
Your Fleet exploration cruiser retrofit, 44K hull, 4/4 Weapons, 1.1 Shield modifier
Your Fleet long range science vesssel retrofit, 29.7K Hull, 3/3 Weapons. 1.43 Shield modifier.
So if you exclude the powers and seating of Boffs, and the way the consoles are which in most cases nobody has a problem with the console set-ups.
The ships are very different. In most cases my Intrepid pops long before my Escort. And thats with tossing heals left and right on the Intrepid. Also i have one of each type of toon and i fly ALL my ships on them - my ENG cause romulans dont get high end fed ships (working on a fed eng for more testing)
All that being said Before powers even come into play science ships are at a disadvantage. Most of them are pretty big ships, or if not big at least decent sized.
So if they hooked up SOME science ships with more weapons they could fall a little in line with the other ships.
I mean come on, Galaxy has 4/4 but the Nebula doesn't? its basically only missing the neck. and not to bring canon to a videogame fight BUT voyager has 6 frikkin weapons on the front. I think she could at least get a 4/3.
That is all.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They nerfed Science because Science abilities used to do a lot of damage so you had Tac officers flying in Science ships doing just insane amounts of damage and they got it nerfed.
Problem is they went way overboard and now Science abilities do no damage and no real support. This game is based around DPS...Escorts can obviously do great DPS, with the right build Cruisers can do great DPS, Science on the other hand can't.
I'm not asking for some Science ship that is more powerful than the Vesta if that's what you're thinking. The Vesta...is a wanna-be Escort that is the size of a Cruiser...I like the Vesta but she is pretty much trying to be almost anything but a Science ship.
I want Science ships to get some attention and same with Science abilities, they deserve some love...and not some secondary deflector gimmick that only helps Sci ships.
Nobody complains about the damage output of ships with high TAC BOFF stations.
Nobody complains about the survivability and support capable of ships with high ENG BOFF stations.
Ships slanted in these flavors perform in what they were obviously designed for.
Science Ships on the other hand underperform because they're tied to the heavy Science BOFF stations that stack up on underwhelming Science abilities. Failing that, they have great 3/3 weapon slots and lower hulls on average than Escorts.
That's actually where my outrage comes from. There's a ton of new consoles each with a skill that mimics science skills and often they work tons better then the science skill they mimic! then we have skills on the singularity cores of any and all romulan ships. We've offered suggestions like for a very long time now, no indication that anyone is even concerned about science skills and it's not just the space skills either, Doffs that say they do certain things on the science ground slots do not function I myself have posted about these bugs and haven't received any indication that anyone even cares much less knows about the problems.
My question is where is the love for the sci skills?
Why does my repulsor beam push back ships like mad crazy when i have exactly 0 in grav but 168 in particle gen but hardly does any damage?
Why don't TR and GW actually cut the power of engines or hold enemies in place when i have 170 or so in Grav Gen?
Why are there Doffs that give major upgrades to both engineering and tactical space skills but almost nothing acceptable in science to help improve damage output?
And will anything be done about these problems when a science focused captain's tale becomes the next major update, Voyager?
Will we get equipable tricorders? Will sci ships get two slots for deflectors? Will the doff skills be expanded to include more enhancements (like causing engine power cutoff with TR or holding enemies in place with GW) or will these skills actually get fixed? Will the ground Doffs like botanists actually get fixed where they actually share their buff with everyone on both Dolv and Mez? Will the chance to beam down a nurse actually work as well and as often as the tacticals ability to summon whole armies of security escorts?
I'd really like to know because Janeway was a scientist first and foremost, sure she had to use tactical maneuvers but science was her focus.
I agree with everything (my only toon is a Vulcan Engineer). I like flying science ships (I've flown escorts and cruisers as well), my former two ships are an Atrox and a Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (Aventine Class). I got tired of depending on my pets to help me do DPS, so I tried out the cheap Mirror Universe Star Cruiser.
:eek: My Mirror Universe Star Cruiser does three times the damage of my Atrox & Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer (Aventine Class). I was just shocked at how fast, maneuverable and invincible my cruiser is. I almost don't want to go back to a science ship, instead I'd rather focus on Engineering and Tac because the Science abilities don't do much. During STF's my science ships were used as Crowd control for the Tactical and Crusier ships.
Part of the reason for your good fortune with cruisers is you're an engineer, I noticed it on mine, apparently engineers get extra resistance than other classes on their ships despite the kind of ship so your science ship even with the trouble you're having is way better experience then science captains on their science ships because you have added resist.
I didn't know that. But thank you for educating me. I don't think I will go back to a science ship because the Star Cruiser is so good. Even though many people have stated how crappy the mirror universe ships are, this one has handed out more snack downs than my previous 3 ships combined in a shorter amount of time.
I'm going to do the vault mission so that I can have the 50 scorpion fighters (in my device slot). Just encase I get "in over my head" I can launch them for a little help.
side note: I wish all cruisers had a hangar slot. Because technically they all do have roundabouts and other smaller ships on board.
Testimony that Cruisers are in much better shape than Science ships eh?
Anything in the game is much better than Science! I don't see how Cruisers can complain about anything other than not having cannons which doesn't seem to matter much when you can break 10k or in some cases 20k dps with beams.
Cruisers are in a much better place than Science is by far, even if a Sci ship had the slots to run A2B it would just kill everything Science on the ship.
Sad but true. I don't even trust Science ships to do probe duty in KASE. The risk is just too high.
Aux2Batt x2 (with 3 doffs), FAW2, APB2, EPtW3, DEM3 (With doff), Rommie plasma beams, multiple [Pla] science consoles.
Then just spam everything regardless of what it is, if it auto heals spam it even more.
lol...that was mean but funny. I used to play a lot of STF (and still do) with my science ships. All I was good for was Graviton Well. It was like soon as everyone saw that, they came rushing in to kill whatever was just about to escape the well. Then they return to fighting Borg spheres.
IKR, I don't suck in my cruiser, at least not by my definition, I run dual aux2damp (using 1 doff) and use 2 lvl 1 EPtX powers, I even use tetryon beams, I find I'm jsut as mobile (if not more so) have more defence and still put out 6 or 7k DPS without spamming FAW and APB on things that auto regenerate.
So you decide to judge how effective Science ships are by comparing them against a cruiser with a launching gimmick?
I really don't know what to say. So, I suppose I will reiterate for the third time.
Science powers are not weaker than Tactical powers.
Science ships are not "less useful" or "less effective" than escorts or any other type of vessel.
If a player effectively combines good ship equipment, right choices of science abilities, right kind of weapons and apt skill at executing coordinated attacks, the Science ship is just as effective, if not more effective, than the escort.
It really boils down to that. You can't examine one part of a system, isolate it and say "It sucks!", because it is part of a system. By itself it is weak, but who would fly with only science powers and no spec or weapons?
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
You are no longer free to make up your own mind, experiment, and find what works best for you, and your game. But, must grind endlessly for the promise of items that you may not even get because your leader decides you didn't do enough, and kicks you from that same fleet, or guild you burnt the midnight oil for.
It takes the fun out of what draws characters like me to games like this in the first place. You can blame WoW for that. I'll never do it again.
Only when considered and used just by themselves, with no buffs or weapons to augment their damage or specific purpose.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
With that you get 4-5k DPS and that's it. Also escorts are actually much harder to fly to their maximum effectiveness than a beam boat. I can easily reach that with white gear in many cruisers too with a simple Dragon build. What do you consider "not sucking"? I get the impression you don't know too much about the mechanics of the game beyond hitting space bar and killing npcs. Did you ever use a combat parser?
If you consider using all abilities that you have to be able to catch 2 probes before they reach a gate or transformer "maximum effectiveness", then I guess Science ships are fine sure... :rolleyes: Of course a great pilot will still outdo most average players even in Science ships, but I really have to wonder how you define maximum effectiveness... Healing someone's shield for 2k hitpoints or draining a cube's energy by 35 is in no universe as effective and useful to the team as another escort tearing up things with 15k DPS.
You're fighting a losing battle in trying to claim that Cruisers have it as bad as Science. I don't know what universe you're living in but Science powers are weak and ineffective in this one.
In PvE they're useless...Science abilities are easily overcome or simply just don't affect for long enough to mean anything. In PvP you can build a very specific build but even then you might need support to finish the job.
You want to talk about weapons? Fine...Science ships have 6...the lowest amount...want to talk about Tactical slots on them...most Science ships are extremely limited on Tactical boff slots.
"I don't know what universe you're living in". The PvP universe, and the PvE universe. The universe where science ships like the Fleet Nova I pilot on my Sci character is just as effective as an escort, with no set gear. The universe where Science damage is joined with weapons and a synergy forms between myself, the equipment and the weapons on my Science ships.
PvE? Okay. Grav well + Iso charge + Tractor beam + Beam overload + Sensor scan + Tactical Team + EPtA + Transphasic cluster torpedo + Transphasic compressors. Try it on a Nanite Probe or Cube in CSE.
PvP: You are part of a team anyways, the team healer should be supporting you regardless of what ship you fly. Everyone knows this.
Yes, I want to talk weapons. 6 weapon slots filled with Transphasic Cluster Torpedoes, transphasic mines and a beam array or two. Shield penetrating damage of 40% plus Projectile Weapons Specialization and torpedo consoles. Add in a DPB and Tactical Team, and you have a ship that, in conjunction with the science powers, can kill a ship without taking the shields down.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here, lianthelia. It's clear to me your knowledge of PvP isn't thorough, and you insist on isolating one section of a synergistic style of gameplay and criticizing it, simply because it itself doesn't compare to an escort. I'm not sure what you intend to prove with such a foolish basis.
As for cruisers and science vessels... Cruisers have it worse than Science vessels, since their method of damage (pressure damage) is largely made obsolete in the "DPS race" this game's PvE has become. Cruisers are effectively team support ships now.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
All true.
I've had dev responses tell me that they can't improve Garvity Well due to engine limitations.
When LoR was in testing, I advocated for a Science trait that would have reduced the speed of any ship caught in a control power by 50% (GW, TR, TB, TBR, etc.) but instead we got the ability to reduce the CD on Photonic Fail Fleet.