I don't know but if someone is worried about improved Science Powers helping escorts why not give a big boost to the Commander level Sci Powers only?
But that would only buff one ability...leaving everything else weak...a lot of Sci ships have a Cmdr and Lt Cmdr Sci.
Like someone else suggested Sci abilities should make get a bigger effect from higher Auxiliary levels. That way even if you have a Advanced Escort with GW 1 and said ability does Exotic damage again it won't be a huge buff since the AE wont likely have very high Aux power.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
But that would only buff one ability...leaving everything else weak...a lot of Sci ships have a Cmdr and Lt Cmdr Sci.
Like someone else suggested Sci abilities should make get a bigger effect from higher Auxiliary levels. That way even if you have a Advanced Escort with GW 1 and said ability does Exotic damage again it won't be a huge buff since the AE wont likely have very high Aux power.
Why not add a passive to all science ships that buff Science skills by a %? That would solve the issues.
But that would only buff one ability...leaving everything else weak...a lot of Sci ships have a Cmdr and Lt Cmdr Sci.
Like someone else suggested Sci abilities should make get a bigger effect from higher Auxiliary levels. That way even if you have a Advanced Escort with GW 1 and said ability does Exotic damage again it won't be a huge buff since the AE wont likely have very high Aux power.
1 problem is with Very Rare Warp Cores that increases your Aux Power based on your Weapons Power you can get Aux Power over 100 on a Escort along with Plasmonic leech console.
Why not add a passive to all science ships that buff Science skills by a %? That would solve the issues.
Not really gonna fix much when 25% of nothing still equals nothing...Science abilities do Kinetic damage...that's right...the mini black hole does the same damage as a torpedo.
As long as someone has even a shred of shields most abilities are not going to do any damage and good luck getting a shield down with the least amount of weapons and when you're putting your power to Auxiliary.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I don't know but if someone is worried about improved Science Powers helping escorts why not give a big boost to the Commander level Sci Powers only?
I'm not worried about science powers helping escorts.
I'm saying we'll be right back where we started with people complaining about how science ships are terrible. People equate science ships with science boff abilities and all that does is show ignorance of game mechanics (and don't get me started on people in other threads equating science captains with science ships...). Just because they all have "science" in their names does not mean they're the same.
All boff slots used with no GCD overlap. And before anyone asks about the BO2, I've seen MANY Escorts in STFs with 1 DBB using BO2 to bust through a shield arc before hitting CRF to keep it down and THY/TS to take a chunk out of the hull.
There are many other Sci builds that don't have GCD overlap, but most are pointless because of how craptacular a lot of Sci abilities are.
Is that 3 different weapon tac ship viable in an STF? Sure. You can get by with an all turret ship and not use a single tac ability, too. But is that loadout better than all cannons, all cannons + 1 DBB, or all cannons + 1 torpedo?
Just because you've seen it in an STF doesn't mean its top tier. This point applies to the engi and sci loadouts as well.
I'm not worried about science powers helping escorts.
I'm saying we'll be right back where we started with people complaining about how science ships are terrible. People equate science ships with science boff abilities and all that does is show ignorance of game mechanics (and don't get me started on people in other threads equating science captains with science ships...). Just because they all have "science" in their names does not mean they're the same.
If Sci Powers help Escorts a lot back to same problem of people saying that Sci ships suck compared to escorts.
In a interview it was mentioned that they are considering putting in secondary deflector slot for science ships which would a have unique deflectors that would augment science abilities, and making them better for science ships only.
In a interview it was mentioned that they are considering putting in secondary deflector slot for science ships which would a have unique deflectors that would augment science abilities, and making them better for science ships only.
If there is anything I've learned over the years is that I won't believe it till I see it in game on holodeck.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I'm saying we'll be right back where we started with people complaining about how science ships are terrible. People equate science ships with science boff abilities and all that does is show ignorance of game mechanics (and don't get me started on people in other threads equating science captains with science ships...). Just because they all have "science" in their names does not mean they're the same.
Science ships and powers are two parts of the same equation though the powers are the greater part of the equation, if you buff science powers then science heavy ships will gain a substantial indirect buff. I never said that ships and powers were one and the same, I have only made observations of the boff powers and (due to your responses) how they would fit in certain ships supporting different play styles.
Not everyone is obsessed with using their control powers to do damage, some people want to use their control powers to control things which would be useful if control powers were capable of controlling things. this however is a playstyle denied to people due to the ineffectiveness of control powers (needing two powers to do the job of 1). THAT is what I am talking about fixing, damage is a secondary effect if you ask me.
Still didnt get the jist of what he is saying... Sci is TRIBBLE compared to what it used to be..ok if it was a little overpowered at 1st but look where its at now!??
SSShhhhh!!! They can't talk about that! Aww see, now you've all scared him away.
In a interview it was mentioned that they are considering putting in secondary deflector slot for science ships which would a have unique deflectors that would augment science abilities, and making them better for science ships only.
While it is nice to see they are at least thinking about the issue, this is not addressing the problem. As has been mentioned, the problem is with the abilities, not the ships.
Imagine if tactical abilities only worked at 10% of their effectiveness in a cruiser. Engineering abilities were only 10% as effective in an escort. Limiting a class of abilities to a class of ships...
Guess I would just mothball the D'deridex I bought for my Sci Rom?
1 problem is with Very Rare Warp Cores that increases your Aux Power based on your Weapons Power you can get Aux Power over 100 on a Escort along with Plasmonic leech console.
Having Sci ship gain bonus to Sci Powers would be nice.
I don't think it matters a whole lot if someone tries to go for 130 Auxiliary power on their escort a GW 1 still isn't going to do nearly the damage of a GW 3.
The biggest problem would be balancing them with Tacs, that's part of the reason they were nerfed to hell in the first place because Tacs in Science ships would just do tons of damage.
But asking for balance in this game right now is kinda pointless so TRIBBLE it and let Sci abilities be OP! :P
Seriously though...it might buff Sci heavier ships a little but not a whole lot but unless they made it completely op across the board I can't see anyone putting their Lt Cmdr spot in their T'varo as Sci or their Lt on their Dhelan Sci
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Science ships and powers are two parts of the same equation though the powers are the greater part of the equation, if you buff science powers then science heavy ships will gain a substantial indirect buff. I never said that ships and powers were one and the same, I have only made observations of the boff powers and (due to your responses) how they would fit in certain ships supporting different play styles.
Not everyone is obsessed with using their control powers to do damage, some people want to use their control powers to control things which would be useful if control powers were capable of controlling things. this however is a playstyle denied to people due to the ineffectiveness of control powers (needing two powers to do the job of 1). THAT is what I am talking about fixing, damage is a secondary effect if you ask me.
Control is a function of DPS, whether it deals 1000 direct damage or no direct damage. For example, you deal more DPS if you can keep a target in range; you deal more damage from AoE effects if you prevent multiple targets from moving away from each other. As I've already explained in my earlier posts, you don't control for the sake of control - you control to increase survivability or DPS.
Understanding game mechanics is key if you want to suggest changes to them.
Sci needs a serious shot to the arm. I can see how Tac captains in Sci ships could be OP ... but there must be a way to limit sci boost to sci captains only. Word of warning I play Tac / Eng and I fully support a sci captain only buff.
Add a new trait that boosts sci-damage up to 200% with skill points in exotic particles ... or whatever. Gravity well & most especially tyken's rif needs a serious boost. About the only decent GW is the one ISS Stadi casts. Even with aux maxed out ... and skill points GW is pathetic and easily avoided. T His is clearly broken. If you don't want players to spam GW all the time then maybe increase the CD when you boost the damage.
Seriously Cryptic ... it doesn't matter if people play Tac or Sci ... they want to be powerful or at least competitive. If you want people to buy sci ships and sci gear then make sci competitive.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
As I've already explained in my earlier posts, you don't control for the sake of control - you control to increase survivability or DPS.
Correction: YOU don't control for the sake of control and in PvP I would agree but in an ISE run you would use a gravity well with the intention of keeping back the hordes to buy time for the rest of your team to blow up a transformer, or for one of the other opportunities to use control for the purpose of controlling stuff which if you would stop being so closed minded on the subject and see the game as an environment with possibilities greater than just "MOAR DPS" you might just start to see what I mean.
Yes there are more times when control powers are used to group things together for someone else to kill but there are other times when you use control powers to buy time for other objectives. But of course if everything is always about furthering damage then where is the harm in giving a little extra pull to gravity well or a little extra drain to skills that do that eh? It isn't buffing their damage afterall which means in your eyes it will mean nothing right?
Correction: YOU don't control for the sake of control and in PvP I would agree but in an ISE run you would use a gravity well with the intention of keeping back the hordes to buy time for the rest of your team to blow up a transformer, or for one of the other opportunities to use control for the purpose of controlling stuff which if you would stop being so closed minded on the subject and see the game as an environment with possibilities greater than just "MOAR DPS" you might just start to see what I mean.
Yes there are more times when control powers are used to group things together for someone else to kill but there are other times when you use control powers to buy time for other objectives. But of course if everything is always about furthering damage then where is the harm in giving a little extra pull to gravity well or a little extra drain to skills that do that eh? It isn't buffing their damage afterall which means in your eyes it will mean nothing right?
If you use a control power to buy more time to DPS something down, then it is still a function of DPS. Are you unable to see the forest through the trees?
If you use a control power to buy more time to DPS something down, then it is still a function of DPS.
Considering what you are doing is not contributing to the amount of DPS done, maybe even detracting from it, I am afraid here you are wrong. by keeping back the hordes you are simply making it easier for people to do the DPS they would usually do regardless of you being there or not.
Considering what you are doing is not contributing to the amount of DPS done, maybe even detracting from it, I am afraid here you are wrong. by keeping back the hordes you are simply making it easier for people to do the DPS they would usually do regardless of you being there or not.
I'm not talking about damage numbers. I'm referring to time to live/kill. Self time to live is survivability. Target time to kill is DPS. If you are unable to breakthrough the target's healing, mitigation, or whatever, then your DPS is 0 - the target cannot be killed. Hence, if you prevent the healing, mitigation, or whatever via control, then your DPS increases. In other words, you are not controlling for the sake of control.
I don't get your argument is this about science characters or science ships... Becuase if its science ships I don't see how secondary deflectors which augment and enhance science abilities would be it could make it so science ships are the go to ships for control abilities and general science abilities.... If the augments/enhancements make science powers that much more potent....
Science characters as far as i know are still useful especially on ground missions, but i do feel space pve they need a little something, but so do space engineers.
There have been a lot more than 3 science ships since free to play launch... here's a list of T5 ships with commander-level science BOFF stations that have come out since F2P...
{Rademaker, Vesta, Aventine} these 3 are the same ship the OP mentioned
{Fleet Nova, Fleet Nova Retrofit} these 2 are the same ship and were not added they already existed in a lesser form
Atrox = Carrier not science vessel
Fleet Varanus = KDF
{Fleet Trident, Fleet Luna, Mirror Trident, Mirror Luna} more of the same, not a new ship
{Korath, Wells} considered the best science ship by many
Fleet Nebula = more of the same ship different description
{Ha'nom, Mirror Ha'nom, Fleet Ha'nom} these are all the same ship and Romulan only
R'mor
{Fleet Olympic, Fleet Olympic Retrofit} really? again
Tholian Orb Weaver - If you like alien ships this is another option
Fleet Intrepid = yet again with same ship fleet version, not new
{Mirror Vo'Quv, Fleet Vo'Quv} same and KDF only carriers
Commander Universal station ships:
{Fleet Norgh, Fleet B'Rel, Fleet Hoh'SuS, Fleet Hoh'SuS Retrofit} more same and KDF and not all science vessels
Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser = not science vessel but a battlecruiser
Tholian Recluse = not a science vessel but a carrier
There are a lot of variations listed here spun as new ships. I don't often take issue with DEV posts but this was just a bit much. Although in defense of the DEV there is far to much complaining against them on the forums.
I guess we see that the science vessel has been scrapped and now Science Captains are meant to fly Carriers and Battlecruisers. Science Bridge Officer abilities are mostly useless now, they have a console for that.
Science ships are clearly defined, carriers are simply something different.
Carriers only highlight how ****ty pure science ships are. They give up nothing except a bit of turning rate and get two hangar slots, tons of hull and sometimes even more weapon slots in exchange for that. No wonder they are much more desirable. But they are mostly desirable since tons of people love pet gameplay, most carrier pilots would gladly trade away science boff and console stations for more tactical or engineering ones. Carriers are successful despite a science focus, not because of it.
Science boff abilities are utterly broken and useless, this thread is full of examples why.
Wait, you think Atrox is not a science ship? How does that work?
Recluse? RECLUSE?? This thing is tied with Orb Weaver for the highest potential science slots in the entire game isn't it?
I'm lost.
What makes a sci ship a sci ship?
If it is sub system targetting then the Vesta line can't really be called a sci ship as that works best with the Aux DHCs, which makes TSS useless.
Sensor analysis, well that takes time to build up and on all but the top ships it is pretty much useless as they go bang long before you get a decent level of it anyway.
If it is BOFF layout well as has been pointed out most BOFF powers are as useful as a chocolate tea pot.
Sci powers are the main problem not the ships themselves. Something needs to be done in this area, they need some sort of buff.
its never been an issue with the ships a while back they used to be desired in teams now only the sci officer is wanted unless they want one of the recluses for healing or something like that rarely do you see science ships in use unless they are using a combo move with another ship where it can help setup the kill but not common enough.
in the current game the skills are the problem they need to be looked at but so do beams and engi skills.
though they are "working as intended" if he means they are intended to suck sure but i digress...
Out side of someone using SciTeam and such, You can still make one hell of a Sci captain and ship build with proper planning!!! Somewhere I think people are sore because they aren't the dominant pvp they would think them to be. If people would play them out right they are one of the most beneficial people to have with you!!!
Out side of someone using SciTeam and such, You can still make one hell of a Sci captain and ship build with proper planning!!! Somewhere I think people are sore because they aren't the dominant pvp they would think them to be. If people would play them out right they are one of the most beneficial people to have with you!!!
What is "playing them right"?
Attempting to be an AoE "wizard"? GW / PSW / CPB / TBR? Of these, only TBR "works" but unless you're highly proficient in it's use it can ruin things more than help...
CC? Anything with AP-O or EPtE is essentially "CC proof"...
Disables? Resists are so high and common that the enemy doesn't "feel" the effect...
So that leaves Science skills to focus on "minor" CC (still semi-useful in some fleet alerts, holding back the "optional-affecting" STF ships and the right NWS foes) and/or healing - ironically being better heal boats than the cruisers which are kinda/sorta/if you believe in the trinity thing the ships to be the healers (cause they're tanking...)
Ahem. I signed up for Science to be an AoE "wizard", using my skills to pop whole squadrons of "nuisance" ships and still being desired during the boss target fight. Not to be a "heal boat" that needs to hang out on the back lines cause I have less hull than the escorts / cruisers I'm supposed to be protecting...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Attempting to be an AoE "wizard"? GW / PSW / CPB / TBR? Of these, only TBR "works" but unless you're highly proficient in it's use it can ruin things more than help...
CC? Anything with AP-O or EPtE is essentially "CC proof"...
Disables? Resists are so high and common that the enemy doesn't "feel" the effect...
So that leaves Science skills to focus on "minor" CC (still semi-useful in some fleet alerts, holding back the "optional-affecting" STF ships and the right NWS foes) and/or healing - ironically being better heal boats than the cruisers which are kinda/sorta/if you believe in the trinity thing the ships to be the healers (cause they're tanking...)
Ahem. I signed up for Science to be an AoE "wizard", using my skills to pop whole squadrons of "nuisance" ships and still being desired during the boss target fight. Not to be a "heal boat" that needs to hang out on the back lines cause I have less hull than the escorts / cruisers I'm supposed to be protecting...
VM is still pretty decent, as are PSW, Scramble, TB, Energy Siphon (More to keep your own powerlevels high). The key to getting the best results out of all these is to doff the heck out of them. Oh, and keep Aux power high, for whatever is aux-dependent. Abuse that subnuke and you should do even better.
Attempting to be an AoE "wizard"? GW / PSW / CPB / TBR? Of these, only TBR "works" but unless you're highly proficient in it's use it can ruin things more than help...
CC? Anything with AP-O or EPtE is essentially "CC proof"...
Disables? Resists are so high and common that the enemy doesn't "feel" the effect...
So that leaves Science skills to focus on "minor" CC (still semi-useful in some fleet alerts, holding back the "optional-affecting" STF ships and the right NWS foes) and/or healing - ironically being better heal boats than the cruisers which are kinda/sorta/if you believe in the trinity thing the ships to be the healers (cause they're tanking...)
Ahem. I signed up for Science to be an AoE "wizard", using my skills to pop whole squadrons of "nuisance" ships and still being desired during the boss target fight. Not to be a "heal boat" that needs to hang out on the back lines cause I have less hull than the escorts / cruisers I'm supposed to be protecting...
It's funny, some of the explanations people provide in this thread to try and denounce the Science career and class of ship.
"So that leaves Science skills to focus on"... In the entirety of your post I saw no mention of weapons. Science ships use weapons too.
Let's compare. Science ship versus Tac in an escort. According to you, only science skills actually count for anything. So let's focus on that; skills.
What Science abilities deal damage by themselves (not requiring weapons)? GravWell, Tyken's rift, Tractor beam, Tractor Repulsors, Charged Particle Burst...
What Tactical abilities deal damage by themselves? None.
By all rights, Science should then be THE ship to get into!
See how ridiculous this sounds? Because you omit an important variable; Ship Weapons. Have a Science character specced for torpedo damage, equip some Breen Cluster Torpedoes and mines AND equip damaging Science abilities, and there you have it; a science ship with damage potential akin to an escort, with crowd control benefits as well.
By the way Scurry, saw your signature. I love the Fleet Nova too, what an underestimated and spectacular ship.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
VM is still pretty decent, as are PSW, Scramble, TB, Energy Siphon (More to keep your own powerlevels high). The key to getting the best results out of all these is to doff the heck out of them. Oh, and keep Aux power high, for whatever is aux-dependent. Abuse that subnuke and you should do even better.
Energy Siphon 3 + 2 of its shutdowns DOffs.
2x VM 1 + 3 of its shutdown DOffs.
A full compliment of Phased Polaris turrets and cannons.
Comments
But that would only buff one ability...leaving everything else weak...a lot of Sci ships have a Cmdr and Lt Cmdr Sci.
Like someone else suggested Sci abilities should make get a bigger effect from higher Auxiliary levels. That way even if you have a Advanced Escort with GW 1 and said ability does Exotic damage again it won't be a huge buff since the AE wont likely have very high Aux power.
Why not add a passive to all science ships that buff Science skills by a %? That would solve the issues.
1 problem is with Very Rare Warp Cores that increases your Aux Power based on your Weapons Power you can get Aux Power over 100 on a Escort along with Plasmonic leech console.
Having Sci ship gain bonus to Sci Powers would be nice.
Not really gonna fix much when 25% of nothing still equals nothing...Science abilities do Kinetic damage...that's right...the mini black hole does the same damage as a torpedo.
As long as someone has even a shred of shields most abilities are not going to do any damage and good luck getting a shield down with the least amount of weapons and when you're putting your power to Auxiliary.
I'm not worried about science powers helping escorts.
I'm saying we'll be right back where we started with people complaining about how science ships are terrible. People equate science ships with science boff abilities and all that does is show ignorance of game mechanics (and don't get me started on people in other threads equating science captains with science ships...). Just because they all have "science" in their names does not mean they're the same.
Is that 3 different weapon tac ship viable in an STF? Sure. You can get by with an all turret ship and not use a single tac ability, too. But is that loadout better than all cannons, all cannons + 1 DBB, or all cannons + 1 torpedo?
Just because you've seen it in an STF doesn't mean its top tier. This point applies to the engi and sci loadouts as well.
If Sci Powers help Escorts a lot back to same problem of people saying that Sci ships suck compared to escorts.
If there is anything I've learned over the years is that I won't believe it till I see it in game on holodeck.
Science ships and powers are two parts of the same equation though the powers are the greater part of the equation, if you buff science powers then science heavy ships will gain a substantial indirect buff. I never said that ships and powers were one and the same, I have only made observations of the boff powers and (due to your responses) how they would fit in certain ships supporting different play styles.
Not everyone is obsessed with using their control powers to do damage, some people want to use their control powers to control things which would be useful if control powers were capable of controlling things. this however is a playstyle denied to people due to the ineffectiveness of control powers (needing two powers to do the job of 1). THAT is what I am talking about fixing, damage is a secondary effect if you ask me.
SSShhhhh!!! They can't talk about that! Aww see, now you've all scared him away.
make science powers 360 degree and introduce arrays like on the vesta that use aux power to fire and maybe science ships would be broadsiding fun
While it is nice to see they are at least thinking about the issue, this is not addressing the problem. As has been mentioned, the problem is with the abilities, not the ships.
Imagine if tactical abilities only worked at 10% of their effectiveness in a cruiser. Engineering abilities were only 10% as effective in an escort. Limiting a class of abilities to a class of ships...
Guess I would just mothball the D'deridex I bought for my Sci Rom?
I don't think it matters a whole lot if someone tries to go for 130 Auxiliary power on their escort a GW 1 still isn't going to do nearly the damage of a GW 3.
The biggest problem would be balancing them with Tacs, that's part of the reason they were nerfed to hell in the first place because Tacs in Science ships would just do tons of damage.
But asking for balance in this game right now is kinda pointless so TRIBBLE it and let Sci abilities be OP! :P
Seriously though...it might buff Sci heavier ships a little but not a whole lot but unless they made it completely op across the board I can't see anyone putting their Lt Cmdr spot in their T'varo as Sci or their Lt on their Dhelan Sci
Control is a function of DPS, whether it deals 1000 direct damage or no direct damage. For example, you deal more DPS if you can keep a target in range; you deal more damage from AoE effects if you prevent multiple targets from moving away from each other. As I've already explained in my earlier posts, you don't control for the sake of control - you control to increase survivability or DPS.
Understanding game mechanics is key if you want to suggest changes to them.
Add a new trait that boosts sci-damage up to 200% with skill points in exotic particles ... or whatever. Gravity well & most especially tyken's rif needs a serious boost. About the only decent GW is the one ISS Stadi casts. Even with aux maxed out ... and skill points GW is pathetic and easily avoided. T His is clearly broken. If you don't want players to spam GW all the time then maybe increase the CD when you boost the damage.
Seriously Cryptic ... it doesn't matter if people play Tac or Sci ... they want to be powerful or at least competitive. If you want people to buy sci ships and sci gear then make sci competitive.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Correction: YOU don't control for the sake of control and in PvP I would agree but in an ISE run you would use a gravity well with the intention of keeping back the hordes to buy time for the rest of your team to blow up a transformer, or for one of the other opportunities to use control for the purpose of controlling stuff which if you would stop being so closed minded on the subject and see the game as an environment with possibilities greater than just "MOAR DPS" you might just start to see what I mean.
Yes there are more times when control powers are used to group things together for someone else to kill but there are other times when you use control powers to buy time for other objectives. But of course if everything is always about furthering damage then where is the harm in giving a little extra pull to gravity well or a little extra drain to skills that do that eh? It isn't buffing their damage afterall which means in your eyes it will mean nothing right?
If you use a control power to buy more time to DPS something down, then it is still a function of DPS. Are you unable to see the forest through the trees?
Considering what you are doing is not contributing to the amount of DPS done, maybe even detracting from it, I am afraid here you are wrong. by keeping back the hordes you are simply making it easier for people to do the DPS they would usually do regardless of you being there or not.
I'm not talking about damage numbers. I'm referring to time to live/kill. Self time to live is survivability. Target time to kill is DPS. If you are unable to breakthrough the target's healing, mitigation, or whatever, then your DPS is 0 - the target cannot be killed. Hence, if you prevent the healing, mitigation, or whatever via control, then your DPS increases. In other words, you are not controlling for the sake of control.
Science characters as far as i know are still useful especially on ground missions, but i do feel space pve they need a little something, but so do space engineers.
{Rademaker, Vesta, Aventine} these 3 are the same ship the OP mentioned
{Fleet Nova, Fleet Nova Retrofit} these 2 are the same ship and were not added they already existed in a lesser form
Atrox = Carrier not science vessel
Fleet Varanus = KDF
{Fleet Trident, Fleet Luna, Mirror Trident, Mirror Luna} more of the same, not a new ship
{Korath, Wells} considered the best science ship by many
Fleet Nebula = more of the same ship different description
{Ha'nom, Mirror Ha'nom, Fleet Ha'nom} these are all the same ship and Romulan only
R'mor
{Fleet Olympic, Fleet Olympic Retrofit} really? again
Tholian Orb Weaver - If you like alien ships this is another option
Fleet Intrepid = yet again with same ship fleet version, not new
{Mirror Vo'Quv, Fleet Vo'Quv} same and KDF only carriers
Commander Universal station ships:
{Fleet Norgh, Fleet B'Rel, Fleet Hoh'SuS, Fleet Hoh'SuS Retrofit} more same and KDF and not all science vessels
Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser = not science vessel but a battlecruiser
Tholian Recluse = not a science vessel but a carrier
There are a lot of variations listed here spun as new ships. I don't often take issue with DEV posts but this was just a bit much. Although in defense of the DEV there is far to much complaining against them on the forums.
I guess we see that the science vessel has been scrapped and now Science Captains are meant to fly Carriers and Battlecruisers. Science Bridge Officer abilities are mostly useless now, they have a console for that.
Recluse? RECLUSE?? This thing is tied with Orb Weaver for the highest potential science slots in the entire game isn't it?
I'm lost.
Carriers only highlight how ****ty pure science ships are. They give up nothing except a bit of turning rate and get two hangar slots, tons of hull and sometimes even more weapon slots in exchange for that. No wonder they are much more desirable. But they are mostly desirable since tons of people love pet gameplay, most carrier pilots would gladly trade away science boff and console stations for more tactical or engineering ones. Carriers are successful despite a science focus, not because of it.
Science boff abilities are utterly broken and useless, this thread is full of examples why.
What makes a sci ship a sci ship?
If it is sub system targetting then the Vesta line can't really be called a sci ship as that works best with the Aux DHCs, which makes TSS useless.
Sensor analysis, well that takes time to build up and on all but the top ships it is pretty much useless as they go bang long before you get a decent level of it anyway.
If it is BOFF layout well as has been pointed out most BOFF powers are as useful as a chocolate tea pot.
Sci powers are the main problem not the ships themselves. Something needs to be done in this area, they need some sort of buff.
in the current game the skills are the problem they need to be looked at but so do beams and engi skills.
though they are "working as intended" if he means they are intended to suck sure but i digress...
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
What is "playing them right"?
Attempting to be an AoE "wizard"? GW / PSW / CPB / TBR? Of these, only TBR "works" but unless you're highly proficient in it's use it can ruin things more than help...
CC? Anything with AP-O or EPtE is essentially "CC proof"...
Disables? Resists are so high and common that the enemy doesn't "feel" the effect...
So that leaves Science skills to focus on "minor" CC (still semi-useful in some fleet alerts, holding back the "optional-affecting" STF ships and the right NWS foes) and/or healing - ironically being better heal boats than the cruisers which are kinda/sorta/if you believe in the trinity thing the ships to be the healers (cause they're tanking...)
Ahem. I signed up for Science to be an AoE "wizard", using my skills to pop whole squadrons of "nuisance" ships and still being desired during the boss target fight. Not to be a "heal boat" that needs to hang out on the back lines cause I have less hull than the escorts / cruisers I'm supposed to be protecting...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
VM is still pretty decent, as are PSW, Scramble, TB, Energy Siphon (More to keep your own powerlevels high). The key to getting the best results out of all these is to doff the heck out of them. Oh, and keep Aux power high, for whatever is aux-dependent. Abuse that subnuke and you should do even better.
It's funny, some of the explanations people provide in this thread to try and denounce the Science career and class of ship.
"So that leaves Science skills to focus on"... In the entirety of your post I saw no mention of weapons. Science ships use weapons too.
Let's compare. Science ship versus Tac in an escort. According to you, only science skills actually count for anything. So let's focus on that; skills.
What Science abilities deal damage by themselves (not requiring weapons)? GravWell, Tyken's rift, Tractor beam, Tractor Repulsors, Charged Particle Burst...
What Tactical abilities deal damage by themselves? None.
By all rights, Science should then be THE ship to get into!
See how ridiculous this sounds? Because you omit an important variable; Ship Weapons. Have a Science character specced for torpedo damage, equip some Breen Cluster Torpedoes and mines AND equip damaging Science abilities, and there you have it; a science ship with damage potential akin to an escort, with crowd control benefits as well.
By the way Scurry, saw your signature. I love the Fleet Nova too, what an underestimated and spectacular ship.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Energy Siphon 3 + 2 of its shutdowns DOffs.
2x VM 1 + 3 of its shutdown DOffs.
A full compliment of Phased Polaris turrets and cannons.
Enjoy the lulz.