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KHG Tactical Readiness Torpedo Damage bonus nerf? Need confirmation please.
peter1z9
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
This is from the STO Wiki page that covers the KHG set:
Set 2: Tactical Readiness
Passive
+25% Bonus to Torpedo Damage
+7 Auxiliary Power Setting
Slowly returns missing crew to disable status (works during combat)
+7 crew recovery rate
+70% resistance to crewman loss
I was trying out the 2-piece KHG set (Mk X) for the first time and noticed that it only increased my torpedo damage by approximately 7.3%, regardless of torpedo type and whether or not THY is active. To me it wouldn't be worth it to run the MK XII version of the set if it only gives a 7% Torpedo damage bonus.
I'd like to know if the Torpedo Damage Bonus from Tactical Readiness scales with the item level of the set, if the bonus was just stealth-nerfed at some point, or if the wiki is just horribly out of date. Would someone with at least 2 parts of the Mk XII KHG set please test this for me (with any torpedo launcher) and post a reply here?
Btw, I am indeed getting the stated Auxiliary Power Bonus from the 2-piece Mk X KHG deflector and engine. I also searched the forums and didn't find anything on any Tactical Readiness changes.
Set 2: Tactical Readiness
Passive
+25% Bonus to Torpedo Damage
+7 Auxiliary Power Setting
Slowly returns missing crew to disable status (works during combat)
+7 crew recovery rate
+70% resistance to crewman loss
I was trying out the 2-piece KHG set (Mk X) for the first time and noticed that it only increased my torpedo damage by approximately 7.3%, regardless of torpedo type and whether or not THY is active. To me it wouldn't be worth it to run the MK XII version of the set if it only gives a 7% Torpedo damage bonus.
I'd like to know if the Torpedo Damage Bonus from Tactical Readiness scales with the item level of the set, if the bonus was just stealth-nerfed at some point, or if the wiki is just horribly out of date. Would someone with at least 2 parts of the Mk XII KHG set please test this for me (with any torpedo launcher) and post a reply here?
Btw, I am indeed getting the stated Auxiliary Power Bonus from the 2-piece Mk X KHG deflector and engine. I also searched the forums and didn't find anything on any Tactical Readiness changes.
"Our Bugs are working as intended" - Cryptic
Post edited by peter1z9 on
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So say something has a base damage of 1000. With all your other bonuses (except for the bonus from the KHG set), you will do 2500 damage.
The bonus applies to the base damage. So that 25% will add another 250 because 1000 is the base for a total of 2,750 damage. It WON'T add 625 damage, because that 2500 isn't the base.
That's why it seems like you aren't getting as much as you might think.
Though all that said, wouldn't surprise me if it was bugged.
shop damage 2290.1
equipped (no KGH) damage 2317.2
equipped (KGH) damage 2655.2
I agree with OP, something is funky here
Not always. The 2pc T'varo set's +10% is treated like an ability rather than a console. It actually modifies damage after skills, consoles, rarity, mark, etc.
I asked earlier in OPvP about the KHG set while I was trying to do some math for another post, whether it was treated like an ability or a console - got the answer that it was a console, which this thread appears to confirm.
For example, what bootyboots said.
Photon Torp 2317.2
w/ KHG 2655.2
A Photon Torp's base damage is 1352. 25% is 338 damage. 2317.2 + 338 = 2655.2
Yep, working like a console...meh.
Well, then the T'varo set bonus is more the exception then the rule...at least I hope so, since 'final modifiers' like that can add up to very big numbers quite quickly.
It's not really a final modifier. It's a modifier on the "new base" rather than a "final modifier"...
If you APA3, APO3, TT1, Decloak...it's not +10% of that total damage. It works just like those do, modifying that "new base" after skills, consoles, rarity, mark are taken into account. Could think of it as a +10% APO, etc, etc, etc.
X; where X is the base damage for the Torpedo/Mine
+ (X * (Y * 0.1); where Y is the Mark
+ (X * (Y * 0.025); where Y is the Rarity (1 Uncommon, 2 Rare, 3 Very Rare)
+ (X * (Y * 0.5); where Y is Starship Weapons Training
+ (X * (Y * 0.5); where Y is Starship Projectile Weapons
+ (X * (Z * (Y / 100); where Y is the listed bonus from the console and Z is the number of consoles
+ (X * (Y / 100); where Y is the bonus from the KHG set if it exists
= New X
+ (X * (Y / 100); where Y is any buff or the 2pc T'varo set (so this one can repeat depending on how many there are)
= Damage
wait it goes by standard issue damage! Thats not base, thats just terrible!
Well, the standard issue damage is technically the base damage...rarity and Mk are both modifiers to that standard issue damage. The damage that shows on tooltips is a modified damage, not the base damage.
Same goes for how Energy works - they're modifying that base damage, that TRIBBLE/Mk 0 damage.
edit: It's one of the reasons that I get a chuckle out of folks paying so much for VR Mk XII energy consoles while upgrading from VR Mk XII's.
It's a 1.9% upgrade.
Say somebody's using Beam Arrays, the TRIBBLE/Mk 0 base is 100. So, they've added 1.9 damage per shot. Well, okay - let's give them 125 Weapon Power...so they've added 4.75 damage per shot. Let's give them a +25% APO3 and a +50% APA3, eh? 8.3125 per shot. Course, they're going to lose some of that because of weapon drain...but hey, upgrading three of those consoles for eight beams would be an increase of 199.5 damage per shot with APO3 and APA3. +159.6 DPS...er...ignoring drain.
This is why I like you PvP guys, you actually run the numbers and figure out the formulas that Cryptic doesn't normally bother giving. Too bad Cryptic has been killing PvP in the game
I actually got the energy part from bareel who's not a PvP guy. I was just looking for his post to link for that...which I believe he also links to a post about the projectile stuff.
Heck, even the formula for actual APO +Def couldn't have happened without help from frtoaster. bareel figured out the part about how APO modifies EM.
There are a bunch of folks in both the PvE and PvP community that like trying to hunt down some of the stuff going on behind all of Cryptic's cryptic math...meh.
edit: And sometimes, folks even get the dev's to share some of it...like Bort talking about Stealth/Perception mechanics or Hawk talking about resistance debuffs. Though, folks need to pester them about the negative damage resistance mechanics...ahem.
edit2: And to be honest, I'm not sure I could be considered one of the PvP Guys, lol. I think I did perhaps 4 arenas, 1 cap 'n hold, and spent maybe 2-3 hours in Ker'rat last month. I used to PvP almost exclusively, but S7 turned me into a PvE grinder - I'll just hit PvP from time to time so STO doesn't feel like a job instead of a game.
With shields having a built in 85% kinetic resist - they are worthless against shields - and it's almost impossible these days to get someones shields down long enough for slow moving torps to hit.
Torps need a serious buff in this game - Transphasic torps should be doing min 60% by-pass instead of 40% - they are the weakest torps in the game and 40% just does not cut it any more.
The rest of the torps need a buff as well.
I would also like to see a NEW projectile weapons doff that would give your torps a extra 30% by-pass chance just like the new beam overload doffs. In the show and movies you always see torps doing massive damge through shields - but not in STO.
...kind of like in the shows/movies...
...folks wouldn't feel as bad about torps.
Personally, I like them...but I tend to run flaky builds.
I disagree on the Transphasics. Buffed up enough, transphasics can do plenty of damage. However, other torpedoes do need improvement. Torpedo travel times need to drastically improve, especially since a player can simply hit the gas and outpace the torpedo, giving themselves plenty of time to heal their shields at least a little and negate the torpedo attack.
Something has to be done, at least. I'm tired of having a tiny shred of shielding repel my HY3 Quantum Torpedo attacks almost entirely. . .and it's very easy to have that tiny shred of shielding left, either via the passives or just manually re-directing your shields.
Also, the enemy can simply turn their ship to present a stronger facing will negate the torpedoes, which are taking their sweet-TRIBBLE time reaching the target.
but in the shows and movies a ship can run out of torpedo's ( except voyager lol endless supply torps and shuttles)
so id be great with torps that did 2x or maybe even 3x the damage they do now if they could run out of ammo. hiyeild that fires off 3 at a time depletes 3 torps. torp spread is funny needs to fire 3 torps at 3 targets not 3 torps at every target it sees.
In the TV and movies - torps were always see as the big boys doing the serious damage - but STO have tossed that right out the window.
what ever it is they need a serious buff - they are probably one of the least used torps in the game - when being the newest - technically from the future so around this timeframe - they should be one of the best.
Torp damage doesn't disappear into the ether vs. Resilient. It's absorbed by the shields.
Non-Res:
Energy Damage * 0.9
Kinetic Damage * 0.9
Res:
Energy Damage * 0.9
Kinetic Damage * 0.95
Res shields take an extra 5% of the damage from Kinetic...that 5% gets slaughtered by the 75% kinetic resist and shield damage reduction that exists otherwise, heh - but there's an extra 5% from kinetic vs. Res.
Trans will do 54% shield/46% hull vs. non-Res. 57% shield/43% hull vs. Res.
They're not used very often in PvE, because of all the unshielded targets. Gens, Trans, Gates...they're going to do less damage than Chrons. In PvP, with all the heavy shield tanking - outside of a BO/Quant build, you're likely going to see the most damage from Trans.
I still use torps because I love them and it just wouldn't feel very trek without them, besides stats don't matter to me enough to make my ships a flying turret.
I'm worried we will never seen torps buffed, Sci ships likes to use them and its known that anything Sci must be nerfed for escorts...
You never heard Picard order Worf to ready the photon torpedos for once someones shields were down...Sisko didn't wait till they were point blank and cannons took down shields to pump someone full of quantum torpedo goodness...
Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey now! It's not just the PvP guys!
I've done an inordinate amount of testing on this game, including the disruptor proc, damage dropoff over range, and console modifiers. Mostly to satisfy my own curiosity, but also for the good of the community
... and I'm a strict PvE min/maxer that just likes numbers :P
Kirk's Protege.
On the T'varo I parse roughly the same in Borg STFs with either Chroniton, Plasma (+Rom Rep) and Transphasic. Transphasic/Plasma feels more bursty/faster than the Chroniton, but when you start getting 150-200k hits with the Destabilized Plasma and Temporal Disruption Device it evens out in the end. All three setups parse roughly at 9-10k enc dps in pugs.
How do you handle the generators in ISE? I don't have...small, controlled damage...for those. I tend to feel useless, hoping that the energy guys would hurry up so I can unload on the transformers - and - then play bigbaddaboom with the gate and tac cube. Pugging, sometimes I even hope that folks blow them early - so at least I can go blow up the spheres by the gate.
The toon I tested this on has 84 to both starship projectile weapons and starship weapons training. I used the Mk X KHG Deflector and Engine on his ship for these tests. I also found that Tactical Readiness does absolutely nothing to the Plasma Burn from all plasma torpedoes...since torpedo damage is the kinetic damage type and the plasma burn is the Plasma damage type.
Photon Torpedo Mk XI [acc]x2
Standard Damage: 4275.1
After Tactical Readiness: 4613.1
% difference: 7.3
Photon Torpedo Mk XI [acc]x2 (THY2)
Total Standard Damage: 10970.4 (3 slightly lower damage added together)
Total After Tactical Readiness: 11838 (3 slightly lower damage added together)
% difference: 7.3
Plasma Torpedo Mk XI [acc]
Standard Damage: 3327.8
After Tactical Readiness: 3593
% difference: 7.3
Plasma Torpedo Mk XI [acc] (THY2)
Standard Damage: 11675.8
After Tactical Readiness: 12613.7
% difference: 7.4
Romulan Hyper-Plasma
Standard Damage: 2346.5 (x3) = 7039.5
After Tactical Readiness: 2529.1 (x3) = 7587.3
% difference: 7.2
Romulan Hyper-Plasma (THY2)
Standard Damage: 5426.4 (x3) = 16279.2
After Tactical Readiness: 5848.4 (x3) = 17545.2
% difference: 7.2
How very, very disappointing.
The bonus damage should be treated like the T'varo set...not a whopping 25% of the standard issue torpedo damage. I'm sure glad I didn't waste resources on the Mk XII version of the KHG set for the torpedo damage bonus.
Big numbers add up quickly. But the numbers could allow the damage to go through the roof really quickly, especially from a tac.
(Note: Going to be using made up numbers for sake of simplicity. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on how the math works in general, Virus :P)
Example: 1000 base damage on a torpedo.
250 added to the base from Weapons Training
250 added from Projectile Weapons (just pretending these both only affect the base damage for both examples)
Now, as it stands, KHG bonus gives 25% off the base, or another 250 damage. If we pretended that instead it was 25% off of the 1500, that would instead be a boost of 375 damage.
'Real' damage: 1750
'Fictional' damage: 1875
Not too big of a difference so far. Let's add in APA and APO
If APO added another 25%, we'd see another 250 in the 'real' game, while we would get another 468 damage in the 'fictional' game for a total of:
2000 'real' damage
2343 'fictional' damage
Pretending that APA added 100% damage, then we'd see the 'real' damage gain 1000 extra, while the other would double:
3000 'real' damage
4686 'fictional' damage
See how quickly the numbers can jump higher and higher? I wasn't even using a real example (like the base damage of a photon torpedo) or adding other things like consoles, rep passives, etc.
Going off the base damage keeps it all a bit more within reason (and probably easier to calculate for the game engine). If it was going off of current damage, the numbers, especially with a tactical captain, could jump into truly massive numbers.
Heck, once all those numbers would be made, then think about the large crit chance/severity people are capable of, to add another huge buff to every hit. Crit severity is still based off of base damage.
If you had a crit severity of 75%, that would add 750 damage to the 'real' damage, but add 3514 damage to the 'fictional' damage.
So now we would see:
3750 'real' damage
8300 'fictional' damage
The numbers at this point are PRETTY far apart from how they began. So think about a real torpedo, like a highly buffed quantum torpedo. If they added larger and larger amounts, we could easily see damage in incredible amounts, far far more than there is now.
Torps are becoming obsolete and Cryptic needs to do something to buff these iconic Trek weapons.
Yeah... That is also why Torpedo Enhancing Tactical Consoles suck so hard. Energy Weapon consoles are better but the Torp ones go off the absolute lowest grade Torp in its class which often gives so little enhancement as to not be worth it.
Torp Spread and crits for the most part, I largely favor Transphasic cluster because it hits so hard it takes down most of the generator on its own. I can understand the feeling of uselessness. I think it stems mostly from the Travel Time on attacks in STO. Projectile -> Cannon -> Beam in that order where you end up sitting there wishing torpedoes traveled faster.
It evens out in the end over a longer duration, and for the most part in pve is largely irrelevant, but Torpedoes dooes lack that quick hitting sustain beams delivers.