How about upgrading the elite fleet phaser proc to be the exact opposite effect of its KDF disruptor counterpart? In other words, elite fleet phasers should proc a shield resist bonus of the exact opposing magnitude of the KDF disruptor.
Therefore, if a KDF disruptor places a 15 second -25% non-stacking shield resist debuff, then Elite Fleet Phasers should add a 15-second duration +25% non-stacking shield resists buff. If both procs activate on the same ship, then the net results cancel each other out at zero net resist change (until one buffs or debuffs expire earlier than the other).
This will still give KDF elite fleet disruptors an overall advantage since multiple targets can be affected using abilities like FAW and CSV, but it still sounds like a good start point.
How about upgrading the elite fleet phaser proc to be the exact opposite effect of its KDF disruptor counterpart? In other words, elite fleet phasers should proc a shield resist bonus of the exact opposing magnitude of the KDF disruptor.
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
Why propose reinventing the wheel, especially when that suggestion goes against current established faction weapon designs that you also summarized?
Here is a better solution: Give elite fleet phasers phasers a small bonus kinetic damage component... perhaps +5% of normal phaser damage dealt. This damage will have virtually no effect on raised shields but will deal better hull damage.
KDF Elite Disruptor weapons score bonus damage against shields, so giving Elite Fleet Phasers bonus hull damage doesn't sound too unreasonable.
From a canon standpoint, disruptor are pure energy weapons that basically break molecular bonds inflict damage. Phasers are part energy, part particle beam, so giving them a kinetic damage component also stays true to Star Trek tech (minor trivia, nothing important).
Why propose reinventing the wheel, especially when that suggestion goes against current established faction weapon designs that you also summarized?
Here is a better solution: Give elite fleet phasers phasers a small bonus kinetic damage component... perhaps +5% of normal phaser damage dealt. This damage will have virtually no effect on raised shields but will deal better hull damage.
KDF Elite Disruptor weapons score bonus damage against shields, so giving Elite Fleet Phasers bonus hull damage doesn't sound too unreasonable.
From a canon standpoint, disruptor are pure energy weapons that basically break molecular bonds inflict damage. Phasers are part energy, part particle beam, so giving them a kinetic damage component also stays true to Star Trek tech (minor trivia, nothing important).
Can we then remove the: to target: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 sec?
I really don't see how Elite Phasers can then have their current procs + disable + on top of that kinetic bonus.
Can we then remove the: to target: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 sec?
I really don't see how Elite Phasers can then have their current procs + disable + on top of that kinetic bonus.
Just to be clear, I am proposing that the current elite phaser shield-heal proc be replaced with a small kinetic damage bonus. There's no way to remove the subsystem disable since that is the base property of all STO ship phasers.
Just to be clear, I am proposing that the current elite phaser shield-heal proc be replaced with a small kinetic damage bonus. There's no way to remove the subsystem disable since that is the base property of all STO ship phasers.
Oh boy, another unsupported argument. YES let's make different factions with different strengths and aspects allt he same! If i am average in skill i should be able to at least survive players with a far superior understanding of the game mechanics and builds. Cryptic should nerf everything that displeases me. GO FEDS! I mean lets stop supporting these lousy KDF. Why reward players who have invested more time to unlock kdf, then more still to relearn a different style altogether. Why reward someone for adapting to something different with special weapons in a fleet star base that takes lots of work in a faction with less members before starbase scaling. ITS ALL BROKE I SAY! As usual the problem could never be me. I am the center of the world the center of my universe yours and the people i play with.
Well i think i clearly argued for the FEDs OP position, so lets get this stuff nerfed asap.
JK lets ignore these irrational cry-babies.
Lets try to understand that the players who get these resources first are dedicated, paying members, in the know, who work hard to be the first to receive and test the best on the best by the best. SO what do you think would happen? You thought it would go well for you?
Clearly you were simply outclassed. It wasn't the weapons, it sounds a lot more like superior teamwork. Superior builds and better skills to me. But i understand the common human need of pride and ego to blame it on something more tangible and easier to accept.
If you really PVP you should play every faction and every ship. That will you will have flown a few miles in their bridges. Otherwise how can you know and not suck. Don't just rely on better premaids, luck and typical mismatched teams skill wise. Frankly pugging an even balanced pvp is infrequent in my experience. You just have to live with the system as is or don't pvp but please stop blaming the weapons and powers and anything but what is real and true.
Oh boy, another unsupported argument. YES let's make different factions with different strengths and aspects allt he same! If i am average in skill i should be able to at least survive players with a far superior understanding of the game mechanics and builds. Cryptic should nerf everything that displeases me. GO FEDS! I mean lets stop supporting these lousy KDF. Why reward players who have invested more time to unlock kdf, then more still to relearn a different style altogether. Why reward someone for adapting to something different with special weapons in a fleet star base that takes lots of work in a faction with less members before starbase scaling. ITS ALL BROKE I SAY! As usual the problem could never be me. I am the center of the world the center of my universe yours and the people i play with.
Well i think i clearly argued for the FEDs OP position, so lets get this stuff nerfed asap.
JK lets ignore these irrational cry-babies.
Lets try to understand that the players who get these resources first are dedicated, paying members, in the know, who work hard to be the first to receive and test the best on the best by the best. SO what do you think would happen? You thought it would go well for you?
Clearly you were simply outclassed. It wasn't the weapons, it sounds a lot more like superior teamwork. Superior builds and better skills to me. But i understand the common human need of pride and ego to blame it on something more tangible and easier to accept.
If you really PVP you should play every faction and every ship. That will you will have flown a few miles in their bridges. Otherwise how can you know and not suck. Don't just rely on better premaids, luck and typical mismatched teams skill wise. Frankly pugging an even balanced pvp is infrequent in my experience. You just have to live with the system as is or don't pvp but please stop blaming the weapons and powers and anything but what is real and true.
I'm trying to find a point in the above post but coming up empty
You're not arguing that the fed weapons are comparable,
You're admitting that the kdf elite weapons are stronger than the feds.
But you're saying that kdf somehow deserve to have better weapons.
sounds like cowardice to me.
Balance the elite weapons.
Maybe instead of the minute shield heal given by the federation weapons allow them to effect 25% less shield damage o.O
That would be comparable.
The 25% extra shield damage effects all incoming damage.
That's what makes it op. If it just gave the weapon that proc'd it the extra 25% shield damage it would be more on a level with the federation weapons.
But still containing way more potential benefit. 25% extra damage is a hell of a lot.
You're sposed to be intelligent and analytical.
Unfortunately your argument for kdf elite weapons is neither.
The Fed weapons aren't worth having. The KDF weapons are a must have.
derp?
You're not arguing that the fed weapons are comparable,
You're admitting that the kdf elite weapons are stronger than the feds.
But you're saying that kdf somehow deserve to have better weapons.
sounds like cowardice to me.
Balance the elite weapons.
Maybe instead of the minute shield heal given by the federation weapons allow them to effect 25% less shield damage o.O
That would be comparable.
The 25% extra shield damage effects all incoming damage.
That's what makes it op. If it just gave the weapon that proc'd it the extra 25% shield damage it would be more on a level with the federation weapons.
But still containing way more potential benefit. 25% extra damage is a hell of a lot.
You're sposed to be intelligent and analytical.
Unfortunately your argument for kdf elite weapons is neither.
The Fed weapons aren't worth having. The KDF weapons are a must have.
derp?
Agreed, and unless Cryptic makes an effort to keep both Feds and KDF somewhat combat balanced, players on the weaker side will usually avoid lop-sided opposing faction fights altogether. After all, why play against an opponent holding all the cards when you can PVP against same-faction ships you know you have a chance at beating?
You're not arguing that the fed weapons are comparable,
You're admitting that the kdf elite weapons are stronger than the feds.
But you're saying that kdf somehow deserve to have better weapons.
sounds like cowardice to me.
Same old story, if "they have it" is OP, if "i have it" is not OP.
Most of the guys that posted here dosn't care about balance in pvp, they only care about them.
Same old story, if "they have it" is OP, if "i have it" is not OP.
Most of the guys that posted here doesn't care about balance in pvp, they only care about them.
Exactly. Like I said earlier, the Feds have access to the best and widest variety of ships, and now most of the KDF's best gear and consoles. The Klinks get one item that's better than theirs, and exclusive to the KDF, and they p!ss and moan like elementary school kids.
Exactly. Like I said earlier, the Feds have access to the best and widest variety of ships
Variety sure, but let's not kid ourselves -- the best ships are all either lockbox or Romulan. And before Romulans came out the best way to vape was in a BoP.
If you wanted to build the most powerful team anytime between a year ago and now, you rolled Klingon. The reason most PvPers play federation is because they don't want to wait an hour between matches.
Back in the day when Klingon's lacked science ships, feds lacked carriers and BoP equivalents, and cruisers had significant differences between factions was when we had true factional difference. Unfortunately, Cryptic has decided to make both factions a homogeneous blur. Giving one side or the other some kind of super weapon or item doesn't restore factional diversity, it just harms balance.
Oh, I've beaten the **** out of fail teams using those weapons en masse.
But that isn't the problem really. It's how it completely ****s the pugs over. And whether or not one can adapt to the weapon at all, does not mean it isn't overpowered.
Oh, I've beaten the **** out of fail teams using those weapons en masse.
But that isn't the problem really. It's how it completely ****s the pugs over. And whether or not one can adapt to the weapon at all, does not mean it isn't overpowered.
No weapon should be that good compared to others.
The French said the same thing about the English longbow. But they somehow managed to hold on to France, despite the fact they were French. You'll be ok.
The French said the same thing about the English longbow. But they somehow managed to hold on to France, despite the fact they were French. You'll be ok.
Because it's...the mechanics? Federation Elite Phasers are all about endurance-the special proc boosts shields, the KDF elite disruptors debuff shields. Phasers shut down random subsystems when they proc, disruptors enhance brute damage. Different paths, different doctrines. The obvious intent is that the Elite Disruptors vs. Elite Phasers should roughly balance out.
This intent may be imperfectly executed, I grant you, but the procs relative to the two factions fit with designed intent regarding combat doctrine-Fed ships are endurance monsters intended to "out last" an attacker while using various specialized low-damage strikes to cripple, then kill. KDF ships are built around a doctrine of Offense and attack, with less endurance but better manuevering and heavier weapons.
Nah, the elite shield debuff is excessive and poorly thought out.
The people defending it have never seen it used by a team in conjunction with their normal repertoire. It's going to be hell on these people without teams once more people get access to this stuff.
The disruptor debuff was a hull debuff, it did not need this shield debuff at all. It was just something they tacked on to make people spend more money in the game, just like many of their stupid gear.
Variety sure, but let's not kid ourselves -- the best ships are all either lockbox or Romulan. And before Romulans came out the best way to vape was in a BoP.
If you wanted to build the most powerful team anytime between a year ago and now, you rolled Klingon. The reason most PvPers play federation is because they don't want to wait an hour between matches.
Back in the day when Klingon's lacked science ships, feds lacked carriers and BoP equivalents, and cruisers had significant differences between factions was when we had true factional difference. Unfortunately, Cryptic has decided to make both factions a homogeneous blur. Giving one side or the other some kind of super weapon or item doesn't restore factional diversity, it just harms balance.
Oh, I thought that, automated heals from elite phasers would perfectly fit your gameplay. Well at least, when it come to crunches. Working as intended.
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Oh, I thought that, automated heals from elite phasers would perfectly fit your gameplay. Well at least, when it come to crunches. Working as intended.
1. Thank you for the baseless accusation out of left field, thinly veiled as it was.
2. It's called a crutch, not a crunch.
3. How on earth can you of all people tell anyone that they're using a crutch? Were you able to keep a straight face when you typed that?
Comments
Therefore, if a KDF disruptor places a 15 second -25% non-stacking shield resist debuff, then Elite Fleet Phasers should add a 15-second duration +25% non-stacking shield resists buff. If both procs activate on the same ship, then the net results cancel each other out at zero net resist change (until one buffs or debuffs expire earlier than the other).
This will still give KDF elite fleet disruptors an overall advantage since multiple targets can be affected using abilities like FAW and CSV, but it still sounds like a good start point.
No more OP than the tactical benefits the feds enjoy. Its still a grass in greener arguement.
R.I.P
Making the proc the opposite isn't the answer. The answer lies in correctly interpreting the difference between the two main factions.
Back before the game was launched, when everything at launch was being designed, the original team (some are still at Cryptic, some aren't) decided that Feds would go for a technological solution while KDF would go for a brute force solution. Hence the original phaser and disruptor procs: a subsystem disable and a damage resistance debuff.
Somewhere along the line, probably when the first C-Store ship universal consoles were being designed, this difference was re-interpreted (or mis-interpreted) to "Feds are defense and Klinks are offense". The result of this is a string of Fed uni consoles that suck and Fed "elite" weapons no one wants.
So I'd propose scrapping the defensive Elite Fleet Phasers and replacing them with weapons that have an offensive proc in the spirit of the technological solutions Feds seek. I'm thinking something like a mini chance-based version of Sensor Analysis that stacks up to three times and increases the damage the target takes by, say, +10 per stack, and just like SA is broken when you lose the target lock for whatever reason.
(I realize that's not all that different from the normal disruptor proc, sue me)
I like that idea.
R.I.P
Why propose reinventing the wheel, especially when that suggestion goes against current established faction weapon designs that you also summarized?
Here is a better solution: Give elite fleet phasers phasers a small bonus kinetic damage component... perhaps +5% of normal phaser damage dealt. This damage will have virtually no effect on raised shields but will deal better hull damage.
KDF Elite Disruptor weapons score bonus damage against shields, so giving Elite Fleet Phasers bonus hull damage doesn't sound too unreasonable.
From a canon standpoint, disruptor are pure energy weapons that basically break molecular bonds inflict damage. Phasers are part energy, part particle beam, so giving them a kinetic damage component also stays true to Star Trek tech (minor trivia, nothing important).
Can we then remove the: to target: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 sec?
I really don't see how Elite Phasers can then have their current procs + disable + on top of that kinetic bonus.
Just to be clear, I am proposing that the current elite phaser shield-heal proc be replaced with a small kinetic damage bonus. There's no way to remove the subsystem disable since that is the base property of all STO ship phasers.
Okies I'm good with that - never mind me
Well i think i clearly argued for the FEDs OP position, so lets get this stuff nerfed asap.
JK lets ignore these irrational cry-babies.
Lets try to understand that the players who get these resources first are dedicated, paying members, in the know, who work hard to be the first to receive and test the best on the best by the best. SO what do you think would happen? You thought it would go well for you?
Clearly you were simply outclassed. It wasn't the weapons, it sounds a lot more like superior teamwork. Superior builds and better skills to me. But i understand the common human need of pride and ego to blame it on something more tangible and easier to accept.
If you really PVP you should play every faction and every ship. That will you will have flown a few miles in their bridges. Otherwise how can you know and not suck. Don't just rely on better premaids, luck and typical mismatched teams skill wise. Frankly pugging an even balanced pvp is infrequent in my experience. You just have to live with the system as is or don't pvp but please stop blaming the weapons and powers and anything but what is real and true.
I'm trying to find a point in the above post but coming up empty
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
The feds would still probably complain.
You're not arguing that the fed weapons are comparable,
You're admitting that the kdf elite weapons are stronger than the feds.
But you're saying that kdf somehow deserve to have better weapons.
sounds like cowardice to me.
Balance the elite weapons.
Maybe instead of the minute shield heal given by the federation weapons allow them to effect 25% less shield damage o.O
That would be comparable.
The 25% extra shield damage effects all incoming damage.
That's what makes it op. If it just gave the weapon that proc'd it the extra 25% shield damage it would be more on a level with the federation weapons.
But still containing way more potential benefit. 25% extra damage is a hell of a lot.
You're sposed to be intelligent and analytical.
Unfortunately your argument for kdf elite weapons is neither.
The Fed weapons aren't worth having. The KDF weapons are a must have.
derp?
Agreed, and unless Cryptic makes an effort to keep both Feds and KDF somewhat combat balanced, players on the weaker side will usually avoid lop-sided opposing faction fights altogether. After all, why play against an opponent holding all the cards when you can PVP against same-faction ships you know you have a chance at beating?
Same old story, if "they have it" is OP, if "i have it" is not OP.
Most of the guys that posted here dosn't care about balance in pvp, they only care about them.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Exactly. Like I said earlier, the Feds have access to the best and widest variety of ships, and now most of the KDF's best gear and consoles. The Klinks get one item that's better than theirs, and exclusive to the KDF, and they p!ss and moan like elementary school kids.
You need to go up against them to build a proper opinion about them.
They are very stupid silly garbage.
Adapt and overcome.
Variety sure, but let's not kid ourselves -- the best ships are all either lockbox or Romulan. And before Romulans came out the best way to vape was in a BoP.
If you wanted to build the most powerful team anytime between a year ago and now, you rolled Klingon. The reason most PvPers play federation is because they don't want to wait an hour between matches.
Back in the day when Klingon's lacked science ships, feds lacked carriers and BoP equivalents, and cruisers had significant differences between factions was when we had true factional difference. Unfortunately, Cryptic has decided to make both factions a homogeneous blur. Giving one side or the other some kind of super weapon or item doesn't restore factional diversity, it just harms balance.
Oh, I've beaten the **** out of fail teams using those weapons en masse.
But that isn't the problem really. It's how it completely ****s the pugs over. And whether or not one can adapt to the weapon at all, does not mean it isn't overpowered.
No weapon should be that good compared to others.
The French said the same thing about the English longbow. But they somehow managed to hold on to France, despite the fact they were French. You'll be ok.
Right, noob.
Fun times, fun times.
What argument did you actually have beyond covering your eyes and trying to troll me?
Did you actually have a cogent mechanical argument that shows why the elite disruptor weapons should have that innate proc chance at a shield debuff?
Thought so.
Nah, the elite shield debuff is excessive and poorly thought out.
The people defending it have never seen it used by a team in conjunction with their normal repertoire. It's going to be hell on these people without teams once more people get access to this stuff.
The disruptor debuff was a hull debuff, it did not need this shield debuff at all. It was just something they tacked on to make people spend more money in the game, just like many of their stupid gear.
Oh, I thought that, automated heals from elite phasers would perfectly fit your gameplay. Well at least, when it come to crunches. Working as intended.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
1. Thank you for the baseless accusation out of left field, thinly veiled as it was.
2. It's called a crutch, not a crunch.
3. How on earth can you of all people tell anyone that they're using a crutch? Were you able to keep a straight face when you typed that?