1.)
However, consider the D'deridex also gets a battle cloak. For those who haven't used one on the BOPs before, unlike a regular cloaking device the battle cloak can be turned on even if you're in the middle of combat. It's a powerful tool for BOPs, it might be even more powerful for a big ship with the hull points and armor to survive those lucky parting torpedoes. There's no other heavy cruiser with a battle cloak to compare it to.
The problem with Battle Cloak in a ship with that kind of turn rate and speed is that it can easily be found once it cloaks and an escort, BoP, or bug ship can easily maneuver to its location and be close enough to see through its cloak.
That's a little different than the one I saw but almost as bad. At least the consoles are fixed now though so that's an improvement.
I'd say easiest thing to do now is just swap the lt tc and cm engineering. So you would have a commander tactical but he would be your only tactical. This would make it feel like a warship but also leave it with enough supporting engineering skills to tank some damage and not allow it to encroach on the "my offense is ALWAYS up" territory of the multi hi tac escorts.
You'd get access to the most powerful tac abilities in the game but you'd have to pick and chose what you wanted as you've only got 4 slots, and would get them less frequently than a comparable escort due to cooldowns. You'd have to think hard if you wanted two copies of tac team for example, since doing that would literally use up half your tac potential. It's a big ship that's slow to turn though so you might just need it...
This would also give the D'deridex a more hit and run style where you'd decloak, unload your nasty alpha strike, then recloak and wait for cooldowns.
The reality of the game as it sits right now is you need tactical slots to make worthwhile contributions to your team at the endgame, and a single lieutenant on a T5 ship is not going to cut it. Releasing new ships with those console layouts into the current environment means you're just dedicating resources to building something that's either going to sit in the hanger its entire life, or get loaded up with every color beam in the rainbow and flown into the hive elite by someone who doesn't know any better, much to the agony of everyone else there.
This clip not only shows a Warbird with disruptors, but it maneuvers behind a smaller, more agile craft and it turns 180 degrees in about 3-4 seconds. Not bad for a fat whale!
Everyone knows that any time we saw a big ship like the galaxy or the D'deridex maneuver like that on screen, the captain had to use their evasive maneuvers skill. Dur. =P
That's a little different than the one I saw but almost as bad. At least the consoles are fixed now though so that's an improvement.
I'd say easiest thing to do now is just swap the lt tc and cm engineering. So you would have a commander tactical but he would be your only tactical. This would make it feel like a warship but also leave it with enough supporting engineering skills to tank some damage and not allow it to encroach on the "my offense is ALWAYS up" territory of the multi hi tac escorts.
You'd get access to the most powerful tac abilities in the game but you'd have to pick and chose what you wanted as you've only got 4 slots, and would get them less frequently than a comparable escort due to cooldowns. You'd have to think hard if you wanted two copies of tac team for example, since doing that would literally use up half your tac potential. It's a big ship that's slow to turn though so you might just need it...
This would also give the D'deridex a more hit and run style where you'd decloak, unload your nasty alpha strike, then recloak and wait for cooldowns.
The reality of the game as it sits right now is you need tactical slots to make worthwhile contributions to your team at the endgame, and a single lieutenant on a T5 ship is not going to cut it. Releasing new ships with those console layouts into the current environment means you're just dedicating resources to building something that's either going to sit in the hanger its entire life, or get loaded up with every color beam in the rainbow and flown into the hive elite by someone who doesn't know any better, much to the agony of everyone else there.
Since the super "warrior" oriented klingons don't even have a cruiser with a commander tac, I doubt they'd do it, there would be too much of a fuss. But frankly, I would prefer they modify the engineering offensive powers to not be a joke so that an engineering heavy ship can really contribute to the dps race that is STO.
This clip not only shows a Warbird with disruptors, but it maneuvers behind a smaller, more agile craft and it turns 180 degrees in about 3-4 seconds. Not bad for a fat whale!
god i miss ron jones work on star trek...
Edit: with 3 tac consoles, the ensign eng swapped for eng sci this deridex is, imho, quite what it should be.
I remind everyone that no warbird ever in star trek fired any sort of "dual cannon".
A singe cannon / turret build on this ship would be quite canon.
Also, battlecloack used in conjuction with jam sensors (oh look who just got a free spare slot for that) and a well timed POWER TO ENGINES, the new go to power for all who have not kept up with tribble, will make the battlecloack quite useful.
Now, what the focus of lobbying here on the forum should be, is to get HEAVY single cannons for everyone....
Since the super "warrior" oriented klingons don't even have a cruiser with a commander tac, I doubt they'd do it, there would be too much of a fuss. But frankly, I would prefer they modify the engineering offensive powers to not be a joke so that an engineering heavy ship can really contribute to the dps race that is STO.
Engineering offensive powers or some kind of general buff to cruisers would indeed be the ideal solution yes. Not TRIBBLE up the most iconic ship in an entire faction needs to be accomplished by any means they can manage though. If it's easier to do it with bridge layouts and consoles then I'll be happy with it, so long as the end result is enjoyable to play and not something like the Galaxy dread.
The LT cm engineering could also be turned to tac but I like that less as it's 5 tac slots now so even though you don't get access to the really high level abilities you get more tac spam overall, and this ship is now 50% tac.
Why not just Bortusqu it then and make the LT commander a universal on the c store version.
Since the Romulans have fewer ships to choose from it makes sense to spread around a lot of universal consoles anyway, so you can try lots of different builds with them.
Engineering offensive powers or some kind of general buff to cruisers would indeed be the ideal solution yes. Not TRIBBLE up the most iconic ship in an entire faction needs to be accomplished by any means they can manage though. If it's easier to do it with bridge layouts and consoles then I'll be happy with it, so long as the end result is enjoyable to play and not something like the Galaxy dread.
The LT cm engineering could also be turned to tac but I like that less as it's 5 tac slots now so even though you don't get access to the really high level abilities you get more tac spam overall, and this ship is now 50% tac.
Why not just Bortusqu it then and make the LT commander a universal on the c store version.
Since the Romulans have fewer ships to choose from it makes sense to spread around a lot of universal consoles anyway, so you can try lots of different builds with them.
Yes, lots of universals/one or two key universals would have been ideal, just I don't think the devs like throwing around universals too often. They know that one of the greatest wishes all players have is more universals/all universals so that we don't get "stuck" with limited builds on a ship. If they made the romulan ships all battle cloak with lots of universals, they'd catch so much flack from the other factions, and if they justified it with "but the romulans have so few ships." they would be sticking themselves with "and we aren't going to make more." So since I'm sure they plan on releasing a romulan equivalent of most other fed/kdf ships, we're gonna end up with a whole bunch of kitbashy ships with all the lame boff/console layouts of the rainbow.
Yes, lots of universals/one or two key universals would have been ideal, just I don't think the devs like throwing around universals too often. They know that one of the greatest wishes all players have is more universals/all universals so that we don't get "stuck" with limited builds on a ship. If they made the romulan ships all battle cloak with lots of universals, they'd catch so much flack from the other factions, and if they justified it with "but the romulans have so few ships." they would be sticking themselves with "and we aren't going to make more." So since I'm sure they plan on releasing a romulan equivalent of most other fed/kdf ships, we're gonna end up with a whole bunch of kitbashy ships with all the lame boff/console layouts of the rainbow.
I don't have any problem with universals on a ship that you have to pay real money for myself. If they were sticking them on the standard ones I could see how people might find it excessive but if you're shelling out a not insignificant amount of actual cash for a special version of the D'deridex it should be special. It should also provide you with as much value for your money as possible, hence the universals enabling a lot of differing builds.
It even fits with the lore idea of the Romulans having to make do with what they have after the loss of Romulus. You're bound to see lots of oddball crew configurations and little consistency ship to ship.
It should in my opinion be much more Bortasqu like than Galaxy like in general. Big slow and tanky but with lot's of versatility and you don't want to make it mad if you're sitting in front of it.
The reality of the game as it stands is that "tank" type builds that can sustain a lot of damage, but put out virtually none, have little value in end game content where everything is about DPS and timers that cause you to fail optionals if your team doesn't have enough DPS. I'm saying this as a Cruiser captain. Damage potential coming from boff layouts and consoles is the reason why cruisers like the fleet Excelsior are fantastic and the Galaxy dread that I also own is almost never played.
While it's bad enough that ships like the Galaxy and Galaxy dread are forever stuck filling this tanking role that isn't required or wanted in endgame teams, the idea of creating more NEW ships to also sit on the bench next to them is even worse. Especially when it's being done on something like the TNG D'deridex warbird, which given that a lot of us likely grew up watching TNG, will no doubt sell like crazy so long as it doesn't suck too bad to bear.
Quoted for truth
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After reading thru most of this topic I've come to the conclusion that the majority of posters here base their judgement and worth of any ship model introduced into STO on how quickly it can DPS to meet the timers for the Optionals in the STFs?
Keep bringing the ship models and dump the damn DPS optional with their timers from the STFs.
After reading thru most of this topic I've come to the conclusion that the majority of posters here base their judgement and worth of any ship model introduced into STO on how quickly it can DPS to meet the timers for the Optionals in the STFs?
Keep bringing the ship models and dump the damn DPS optional with their timers from the STFs.
Simple fix!
To a point, you're right. Its the fault of the game structure and reward system that's really at fault here, as well as the distorted "holy trinity" of ship classes in the game.
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While the D'Deridex should have high DPS, that is not the only concern. As I have said several times in this thread one of the main problems is a potential third ensign engineering station we may get stuck with. This has always been a very poor boff layout, but will be even worse with the upcomming changes to emergency powers.
I am absolutely with the OP regarding the turnrate issues and also the general layout of the ship.
Why must the most iconic ships not only fail but fail so hard?
I can accept it that C-Store ships must have something going for them, but this is going too far.
Even the Retrofit D'deridex with the given turnrate and other stats would be annoying to use with that low turnrate. If at least the turnrate would not be that depressing, all in all it is really a failwhale design.
I am looking at my 1000-Day-Destroyer. I don't need a cruiser to be THAT agile, but I don't want a ship that needs a minute to pick up loot straight to the left...
I hope the planned changes to RCS consoles and hopefully some mercy for the iconic D'deridex will save this ship from the fate of the Galaxy class.
Well it looks like our voices are being heard somewhat. The D'Deridex no longer has the Failaxy boff layout with the useless 3rd ensign engineer, it now has a little better layout like the Mirror Vorcha/ Star cruiser.
I like an ensign sci station, it lets you run tractor beam and still have 2 sci heals like He and TSS, but this still isn't enough to make this ship what it deserves to be.
This is still to eng heavy and not enough tac for my tastes though. I don't want the D'Deridex to be a support/healing cruiser, use a different ship for that or make up a new one. Don't waste the model of the most iconoic and I am sure most popular Romulan ship design on a boring star cruiser support ship. It needs to be more of a tactical ship, given that even Cryptic is calling it a Warbird Battlecruiser. Well most KDF battlecruisers have more then just Lt Tac.
This would be the ideal boff layout for a alpha striker tactical D'Deridex. Just enough eng to make itself tanky, but not really enough to be a support/healer ship.
Lt Cmdr Tac
Lt Tac
Cmdr Eng
Lt Sci
Ensign Sci
Console layout
3 eng
2 sci
4 tac (5 for fleet version)
Well it looks like our voices are being heard somewhat. The D'Deridex no longer has the Failaxy boff layout with the useless 3rd ensign engineer, it now has a little better layout like the Mirror Vorcha/ Star cruiser.
I like an ensign sci station, it lets you run tractor beam and still have 2 sci heals like He and TSS, but this still isn't enough to make this ship what it deserves to be.
This is still to eng heavy and not enough tac for my tastes though. I don't want the D'Deridex to be a support/healing cruiser, use a different ship for that or make up a new one. Don't waste the model of the most iconoic and I am sure most popular Romulan ship design on a boring star cruiser support ship. It needs to be more of a tactical ship, given that even Cryptic is calling it a Warbird Battlecruiser. Well most KDF battlecruisers have more then just Lt Tac.
This would be the ideal boff layout for a alpha striker tactical D'Deridex. Just enough eng to make itself tanky, but not really enough to be a support/healer ship.
Lt Cmdr Tac
Lt Tac
Cmdr Eng
Lt Sci
Ensign Sci
Console layout
3 eng
2 sci
4 tac (5 for fleet version)
Why not just straight up ask for the boff layout of a Chimera/Peghqu instead of beating around the bush?
I don't have any problem with universals on a ship that you have to pay real money for myself. If they were sticking them on the standard ones I could see how people might find it excessive but if you're shelling out a not insignificant amount of actual cash for a special version of the D'deridex it should be special. It should also provide you with as much value for your money as possible, hence the universals enabling a lot of differing builds.
It even fits with the lore idea of the Romulans having to make do with what they have after the loss of Romulus. You're bound to see lots of oddball crew configurations and little consistency ship to ship.
It should in my opinion be much more Bortasqu like than Galaxy like in general. Big slow and tanky but with lot's of versatility and you don't want to make it mad if you're sitting in front of it.
Most fleet ships/z-store ships only get one universal ensign or lt. Only the new vesta/ody/bortas ships have had the two universal stations and one as high as lt.com... except the lock box recluse with its universal commander, but that's a whole other tholian box of spider-worms.
Would it fit the lore to let the D'deridex have universals? Yes. Would it fit the lore to let it have all universals? Yes. Would it fit the lore to let all ships have all universals? Yes... Would it reduce ship sales if they made all ships all universals? Probably not. Would it increase ship sales because people would buy all their favorites and not refrain from buying a ship based on a TRIBBLE bridge officer layout? Probably. Would we have nothing but galaxy class ships flying around if it didn't suck? Probably not. Would people be flying around in defiants and prometheus' and intrepids and nebulas and all sorts of other ships because different people are fans of different play styles and different ships from the show? Almost certainly. Have I just shot down all of cryptic's excuses for TRIBBLE STO so incredibly hard with this nonsense? Yup.
I am one of the few who still fly the galaxy x. My dps in the ship is well above any other cruiser that wields beams as I have arsed them all.
The boat is slow to turn and needs assistance in PVp situations but thats not forcing me to call the galaxy x a failed ship.
With tractors and jump engines I work wonders with this ship.
Do I want the LT commander slot..of course.....noone would pass up extra slots. AND YES I parse to gauge my dps of this beast.
Are they needed?? Not in the slightest.
The ship has good damage potential and when a skilled captain sits in the seat
The only thing this ship suffers from is early release in the games history. Most recent releases are 10 console ships and blah blah. This ship was released sometime ago . I am sure over time this ship will get a revisit and more polish.......Until then I still fly it and enjoy it.
So again...the ship is old released a very long time ago in comparison to more modern 10 slot c store ships and suffers thusly from more modern requirements for a c store ship .
It does not suffer from firepower issues in my experiences. It does not suffer from survivability issues. It is a slug......I do remember when it had only 3 rear weapon mounts too.....they have upgraded it.
As to the OP main idea..I could care less about the Romulans myself......i wont be buying any of their content or playing it. I prefer to see their pixels burning in space.
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
I am one of the few who still fly the galaxy x. My dps in the ship is well above any other cruiser that wields beams as I have arsed them all.
The boat is slow to turn and needs assistance in PVp situations but thats not forcing me to call the galaxy x a failed ship.
With tractors and jump engines I work wonders with this ship.
Do I want the LT commander slot..of course.....noone would pass up extra slots. AND YES I parse to gauge my dps of this beast.
Are they needed?? Not in the slightest.
The ship has good damage potential and when a skilled captain sits in the seat
The only thing this ship suffers from is early release in the games history. Most recent releases are 10 console ships and blah blah. This ship was released sometime ago . I am sure over time this ship will get a revisit and more polish.......Until then I still fly it and enjoy it.
So again...the ship is old released a very long time ago in comparison to more modern 10 slot c store ships and suffers thusly from more modern requirements for a c store ship .
It does not suffer from firepower issues in my experiences. It does not suffer from survivability issues. It is a slug......I do remember when it had only 3 rear weapon mounts too.....they have upgraded it.
As to the OP main idea..I could care less about the Romulans myself......i wont be buying any of their content or playing it. I prefer to see their pixels burning in space.
They weren't talking about giving the D'deridex the layout of a galaxy-x, they were talking about giving it the layout of a galaxy retrofit. So Com, lt.com, and ensign eng with a lt. sci and a lt. tac. If they switched that ensign to tac, I'd be fine with that, but I think for now it's been moved to sci... and I don't know how I feel about that, but whatever.
yea the fail boat is the galaxy, why is it the gal-x always oh but my boat is good?
both the gal BASE version and the warbird should get reworked tbh, hell the warbid should be able to fire a mega cannon out the front end of that thing the few seconds it can keep anything in its firing arcs. cloak uncloak fire and do as much damage before anything can move because once it can move it will be going around that warbird not sitting in its dont nuke.
I am one of the few who still fly the galaxy x. My dps in the ship is well above any other cruiser that wields beams as I have arsed them all.
The boat is slow to turn and needs assistance in PVp situations but thats not forcing me to call the galaxy x a failed ship.
With tractors and jump engines I work wonders with this ship.
Do I want the LT commander slot..of course.....noone would pass up extra slots. AND YES I parse to gauge my dps of this beast.
Are they needed?? Not in the slightest.
The ship has good damage potential and when a skilled captain sits in the seat
The only thing this ship suffers from is early release in the games history. Most recent releases are 10 console ships and blah blah. This ship was released sometime ago . I am sure over time this ship will get a revisit and more polish.......Until then I still fly it and enjoy it.
So again...the ship is old released a very long time ago in comparison to more modern 10 slot c store ships and suffers thusly from more modern requirements for a c store ship .
It does not suffer from firepower issues in my experiences. It does not suffer from survivability issues. It is a slug......I do remember when it had only 3 rear weapon mounts too.....they have upgraded it.
As to the OP main idea..I could care less about the Romulans myself......i wont be buying any of their content or playing it. I prefer to see their pixels burning in space.
Copy your build over to a Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, or even a regular Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, and try to find a way that it's not better with 3-4 tac consoles instead of 2 and lt cm tac instead of lt + ens.
I've gone through exactly this same situation. Left me wishing I'd bought the Excelsior first.
The way any kind of starship is treated in STO has always been and will always be utter bull****.
Putting that aside, both the Gal-R and the D'deridex should get the universal ensign while the Warbird should have more tac consoles while the Gal-R should get more science heavy. The Warbird should get some kind of exclusive heavy forward cannon while the Gal-R should get an heavy duty beam array.
But as a matter of fact I think the devs don't want any original ships be actually worthwile in favour of their ugly designs
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Imagine if the Galaxy X had the Boff/console and turn rate that the Breen cruiser has. Such a great cruiser Boff layout and its waisted on that ugly TRIBBLE ship. If the Galaxy X had it you would see every Fed captian with one in his inventory. Also give its lance the same damage and acc as the Grumbas lance. But thats for another thread. Seems for any Cruiser to be affective it needs a LT CMDR Tac and 4 Tac consoles. A Battleship needs firepower, giving the D'Deridex anything short of 4 Tac consoles and a Lt Cmdr Tac station and it willbe just another mediocre cruiser that players will use once or twice and then never fly again. Sad beacuse the PVE versions on Elite are vicious.
Imagine if the Galaxy X had the Boff/console and turn rate that the Breen cruiser has. Such a great cruiser Boff layout and its waisted on that ugly TRIBBLE ship. If the Galaxy X had it you would see every Fed captian with one in his inventory. Also give its lance the same damage and acc as the Grumbas lance. But thats for another thread. Seems for any Cruiser to be affective it needs a LT CMDR Tac and 4 Tac consoles. A Battleship needs firepower, giving the D'Deridex anything short of 4 Tac consoles and a Lt Cmdr Tac station and it willbe just another mediocre cruiser that players will use once or twice and then never fly again. Sad beacuse the PVE versions on Elite are vicious.
What makes the breen ship good is the combination of tac boffs slots and actually being able to MOVE.
I say: give klingon cruisers the same HP as fed cruisers. Gvie Fed crusiers the same Turnrate and inertia as the klingon ships.
Problem solved. klingon crusiers don't suck by design.
Why do Fed cruisers have to suck by design?
Well the D'deridex got shafted by one single detail. It's a cruiser. And guess what? The only cruisers in this game worth a damn are KDF battlecruisers. Fed cruisers for the most part are difficult to get large amounts of damage out of. It's possible, but painfully expensive. And I think it's safe to assume the D'deridex will have that same problem.
As was stated dozens of times in this thread, welcome to escorts online. Here we cater to your Defiants, your Jem'hadar Attack Ships, and all your non-iconic ships/DS9 based ships. Everything else? TRIBBLE em, they don't matter.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Well the D'deridex got shafted by one single detail. It's a cruiser. And guess what? The only cruisers in this game worth a damn are KDF battlecruisers. Fed cruisers for the most part are difficult to get large amounts of damage out of. It's possible, but painfully expensive. And I think it's safe to assume the D'deridex will have that same problem.
As was stated dozens of times in this thread, welcome to escorts online. Here we cater to your Defiants, your Jem'hadar Attack Ships, and all your non-iconic ships/DS9 based ships. Everything else? TRIBBLE em, they don't matter.
Well a lot of that has to do with fans that watched the shows and saw the escorts doing all the major damage and blowing stuff up while the cruisers lost power or were messing with their dilithium crystals. Fans like to make boom and that's the escorts job. Cruisers just take the agro until the escorts pull it away from them.
Well a lot of that has to do with fans that watched the shows and saw the escorts doing all the major damage and blowing stuff up while the cruisers lost power or were messing with their dilithium crystals. Fans like to make boom and that's the escorts job. Cruisers just take the agro until the escorts pull it away from them.
The funny thing is that small vessels NEVER did any major damage except the Defiant. Small vessels did not partake in major combat until DS9 which, although I personally like it very much, was the attempt to rip-off Babylon 5 and introduce more boom into Star Trek which just was too slow and "complex" for the audience. And even there small vessels do some damage but are never a real threat.
Cruisers should do the most damage and take the most damage. Yes, that doesn't fit the primitive setup of an average MMO but that's just the way it is. Star Trek's mechanics are all about cruiser ships - in the early day, those cruisers would fight each other over ranges of hundreds of thousands of kilometers, not even making visual contact shooting torpedos at each other's sensory images like submarines in the deep. All smaller vessels should support those cruisers like corvettes and frigates during early naval battles did, not the other way around.
But since fast zip and pew pew sci-fi is way more succesful ST had to adapt, sadly...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
The problem with Battle Cloak in a ship with that kind of turn rate and speed is that it can easily be found once it cloaks and an escort, BoP, or bug ship can easily maneuver to its location and be close enough to see through its cloak.
That's a little different than the one I saw but almost as bad. At least the consoles are fixed now though so that's an improvement.
I'd say easiest thing to do now is just swap the lt tc and cm engineering. So you would have a commander tactical but he would be your only tactical. This would make it feel like a warship but also leave it with enough supporting engineering skills to tank some damage and not allow it to encroach on the "my offense is ALWAYS up" territory of the multi hi tac escorts.
You'd get access to the most powerful tac abilities in the game but you'd have to pick and chose what you wanted as you've only got 4 slots, and would get them less frequently than a comparable escort due to cooldowns. You'd have to think hard if you wanted two copies of tac team for example, since doing that would literally use up half your tac potential. It's a big ship that's slow to turn though so you might just need it...
This would also give the D'deridex a more hit and run style where you'd decloak, unload your nasty alpha strike, then recloak and wait for cooldowns.
The reality of the game as it sits right now is you need tactical slots to make worthwhile contributions to your team at the endgame, and a single lieutenant on a T5 ship is not going to cut it. Releasing new ships with those console layouts into the current environment means you're just dedicating resources to building something that's either going to sit in the hanger its entire life, or get loaded up with every color beam in the rainbow and flown into the hive elite by someone who doesn't know any better, much to the agony of everyone else there.
Everyone knows that any time we saw a big ship like the galaxy or the D'deridex maneuver like that on screen, the captain had to use their evasive maneuvers skill. Dur. =P
Since the super "warrior" oriented klingons don't even have a cruiser with a commander tac, I doubt they'd do it, there would be too much of a fuss. But frankly, I would prefer they modify the engineering offensive powers to not be a joke so that an engineering heavy ship can really contribute to the dps race that is STO.
god i miss ron jones work on star trek...
Edit: with 3 tac consoles, the ensign eng swapped for eng sci this deridex is, imho, quite what it should be.
I remind everyone that no warbird ever in star trek fired any sort of "dual cannon".
A singe cannon / turret build on this ship would be quite canon.
Also, battlecloack used in conjuction with jam sensors (oh look who just got a free spare slot for that) and a well timed POWER TO ENGINES, the new go to power for all who have not kept up with tribble, will make the battlecloack quite useful.
Now, what the focus of lobbying here on the forum should be, is to get HEAVY single cannons for everyone....
Arrays got dual beams, dual cannon got dual heavy's. single cannon got jack.
90? angle double damage half the pulses heavy please.
We then could make decent canon'esque warbirds.
oh btw:
What will really dump this ship into the "gah wtf" territory will be:
Weapon hardpoints.
i hate when weapons hardpoints are placed on the fckn bussard collectors....
Engineering offensive powers or some kind of general buff to cruisers would indeed be the ideal solution yes. Not TRIBBLE up the most iconic ship in an entire faction needs to be accomplished by any means they can manage though. If it's easier to do it with bridge layouts and consoles then I'll be happy with it, so long as the end result is enjoyable to play and not something like the Galaxy dread.
The LT cm engineering could also be turned to tac but I like that less as it's 5 tac slots now so even though you don't get access to the really high level abilities you get more tac spam overall, and this ship is now 50% tac.
Why not just Bortusqu it then and make the LT commander a universal on the c store version.
Since the Romulans have fewer ships to choose from it makes sense to spread around a lot of universal consoles anyway, so you can try lots of different builds with them.
Yes, lots of universals/one or two key universals would have been ideal, just I don't think the devs like throwing around universals too often. They know that one of the greatest wishes all players have is more universals/all universals so that we don't get "stuck" with limited builds on a ship. If they made the romulan ships all battle cloak with lots of universals, they'd catch so much flack from the other factions, and if they justified it with "but the romulans have so few ships." they would be sticking themselves with "and we aren't going to make more." So since I'm sure they plan on releasing a romulan equivalent of most other fed/kdf ships, we're gonna end up with a whole bunch of kitbashy ships with all the lame boff/console layouts of the rainbow.
I don't have any problem with universals on a ship that you have to pay real money for myself. If they were sticking them on the standard ones I could see how people might find it excessive but if you're shelling out a not insignificant amount of actual cash for a special version of the D'deridex it should be special. It should also provide you with as much value for your money as possible, hence the universals enabling a lot of differing builds.
It even fits with the lore idea of the Romulans having to make do with what they have after the loss of Romulus. You're bound to see lots of oddball crew configurations and little consistency ship to ship.
It should in my opinion be much more Bortasqu like than Galaxy like in general. Big slow and tanky but with lot's of versatility and you don't want to make it mad if you're sitting in front of it.
Quoted for truth
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Keep bringing the ship models and dump the damn DPS optional with their timers from the STFs.
Simple fix!
To a point, you're right. Its the fault of the game structure and reward system that's really at fault here, as well as the distorted "holy trinity" of ship classes in the game.
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Why must the most iconic ships not only fail but fail so hard?
I can accept it that C-Store ships must have something going for them, but this is going too far.
Even the Retrofit D'deridex with the given turnrate and other stats would be annoying to use with that low turnrate. If at least the turnrate would not be that depressing, all in all it is really a failwhale design.
I am looking at my 1000-Day-Destroyer. I don't need a cruiser to be THAT agile, but I don't want a ship that needs a minute to pick up loot straight to the left...
I hope the planned changes to RCS consoles and hopefully some mercy for the iconic D'deridex will save this ship from the fate of the Galaxy class.
I like an ensign sci station, it lets you run tractor beam and still have 2 sci heals like He and TSS, but this still isn't enough to make this ship what it deserves to be.
This is still to eng heavy and not enough tac for my tastes though. I don't want the D'Deridex to be a support/healing cruiser, use a different ship for that or make up a new one. Don't waste the model of the most iconoic and I am sure most popular Romulan ship design on a boring star cruiser support ship. It needs to be more of a tactical ship, given that even Cryptic is calling it a Warbird Battlecruiser. Well most KDF battlecruisers have more then just Lt Tac.
This would be the ideal boff layout for a alpha striker tactical D'Deridex. Just enough eng to make itself tanky, but not really enough to be a support/healer ship.
Lt Cmdr Tac
Lt Tac
Cmdr Eng
Lt Sci
Ensign Sci
Console layout
3 eng
2 sci
4 tac (5 for fleet version)
I argue that they make escorts into cruisers and then bam, no more escorts.
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Why not just straight up ask for the boff layout of a Chimera/Peghqu instead of beating around the bush?
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I was thinking more of the Bortasqu when I thought of that layout. The Vet ship is similar but the Cmdr is Tac.
Most fleet ships/z-store ships only get one universal ensign or lt. Only the new vesta/ody/bortas ships have had the two universal stations and one as high as lt.com... except the lock box recluse with its universal commander, but that's a whole other tholian box of spider-worms.
Would it fit the lore to let the D'deridex have universals? Yes. Would it fit the lore to let it have all universals? Yes. Would it fit the lore to let all ships have all universals? Yes... Would it reduce ship sales if they made all ships all universals? Probably not. Would it increase ship sales because people would buy all their favorites and not refrain from buying a ship based on a TRIBBLE bridge officer layout? Probably. Would we have nothing but galaxy class ships flying around if it didn't suck? Probably not. Would people be flying around in defiants and prometheus' and intrepids and nebulas and all sorts of other ships because different people are fans of different play styles and different ships from the show? Almost certainly. Have I just shot down all of cryptic's excuses for TRIBBLE STO so incredibly hard with this nonsense? Yup.
The boat is slow to turn and needs assistance in PVp situations but thats not forcing me to call the galaxy x a failed ship.
With tractors and jump engines I work wonders with this ship.
Do I want the LT commander slot..of course.....noone would pass up extra slots. AND YES I parse to gauge my dps of this beast.
Are they needed?? Not in the slightest.
The ship has good damage potential and when a skilled captain sits in the seat
The only thing this ship suffers from is early release in the games history. Most recent releases are 10 console ships and blah blah. This ship was released sometime ago . I am sure over time this ship will get a revisit and more polish.......Until then I still fly it and enjoy it.
So again...the ship is old released a very long time ago in comparison to more modern 10 slot c store ships and suffers thusly from more modern requirements for a c store ship .
It does not suffer from firepower issues in my experiences. It does not suffer from survivability issues. It is a slug......I do remember when it had only 3 rear weapon mounts too.....they have upgraded it.
As to the OP main idea..I could care less about the Romulans myself......i wont be buying any of their content or playing it. I prefer to see their pixels burning in space.
They weren't talking about giving the D'deridex the layout of a galaxy-x, they were talking about giving it the layout of a galaxy retrofit. So Com, lt.com, and ensign eng with a lt. sci and a lt. tac. If they switched that ensign to tac, I'd be fine with that, but I think for now it's been moved to sci... and I don't know how I feel about that, but whatever.
both the gal BASE version and the warbird should get reworked tbh, hell the warbid should be able to fire a mega cannon out the front end of that thing the few seconds it can keep anything in its firing arcs. cloak uncloak fire and do as much damage before anything can move because once it can move it will be going around that warbird not sitting in its dont nuke.
Copy your build over to a Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, or even a regular Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, and try to find a way that it's not better with 3-4 tac consoles instead of 2 and lt cm tac instead of lt + ens.
I've gone through exactly this same situation. Left me wishing I'd bought the Excelsior first.
Putting that aside, both the Gal-R and the D'deridex should get the universal ensign while the Warbird should have more tac consoles while the Gal-R should get more science heavy. The Warbird should get some kind of exclusive heavy forward cannon while the Gal-R should get an heavy duty beam array.
But as a matter of fact I think the devs don't want any original ships be actually worthwile in favour of their ugly designs
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What makes the breen ship good is the combination of tac boffs slots and actually being able to MOVE.
I say: give klingon cruisers the same HP as fed cruisers. Gvie Fed crusiers the same Turnrate and inertia as the klingon ships.
Problem solved. klingon crusiers don't suck by design.
Why do Fed cruisers have to suck by design?
As was stated dozens of times in this thread, welcome to escorts online. Here we cater to your Defiants, your Jem'hadar Attack Ships, and all your non-iconic ships/DS9 based ships. Everything else? TRIBBLE em, they don't matter.
Well a lot of that has to do with fans that watched the shows and saw the escorts doing all the major damage and blowing stuff up while the cruisers lost power or were messing with their dilithium crystals. Fans like to make boom and that's the escorts job. Cruisers just take the agro until the escorts pull it away from them.
The funny thing is that small vessels NEVER did any major damage except the Defiant. Small vessels did not partake in major combat until DS9 which, although I personally like it very much, was the attempt to rip-off Babylon 5 and introduce more boom into Star Trek which just was too slow and "complex" for the audience. And even there small vessels do some damage but are never a real threat.
Cruisers should do the most damage and take the most damage. Yes, that doesn't fit the primitive setup of an average MMO but that's just the way it is. Star Trek's mechanics are all about cruiser ships - in the early day, those cruisers would fight each other over ranges of hundreds of thousands of kilometers, not even making visual contact shooting torpedos at each other's sensory images like submarines in the deep. All smaller vessels should support those cruisers like corvettes and frigates during early naval battles did, not the other way around.
But since fast zip and pew pew sci-fi is way more succesful ST had to adapt, sadly...
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